The general consensus that ive gotten from the comments is that the break order is a bit scuffed, i could see placing fugue above boothill, and maybe putting him down next to/under firefly. That whole archetype is really hard to judge, since theres so many overlapping premium options that HEAVILY sway how strong each carry can be. But the order of Ruan mei>Fugue>HMC>Rappa=Boothill>Firefly would maybe make sense? With the conventional thinking of supports being more valuable for an account over carries. Ill have something more solid in the next tier list update!
Personally the order for me would be RM > Fugue >= Rappa >= Firefly >= HMC = Boothill, I think HMC is of course a top tier support but their usage is almost solely defined by the 3 premium break dps, and even boothill somewhat rarely uses hmc. Also this has probably been said already but fu xuan is waaaayyyy too high she is such a bench warmer nowadays honestly. I would straight up put her below serval, I got E1 fu xuan even and I still haven't touched her in almost half a year
I'm not sure I entirely agree with you saying Boothill is less reliant on break supports than Firefly. Bc while I did get lucky and manage E1S1 and also getting Fugue in 2.7, even when my Firefly was E0S0 I was able to get pretty good milage out of her in the endgame. And I've even had pretty good success with her even without her premium teams. I've split certain floors of MoC and even Apoc into 2 break teams budgeting out Fugue, Gallagher, Lingsha, and HMC or sometimes using Fugue or RMC with Acheron on one side and the other with Firefly on the other side. And I can say she still does well enough even with only 2 of her top supports in a team (and I don't even have Ruan Mei). Like I could get good clears with Firefly, Sunday/Bronya, Fugue/HMC, Gallagher/Lingsha. Obv I'm not saying shes' above The Herta or Feixiao, but I'd say she isn't that far behind the other break DPS. I truly think that Rappa, Boothill, and Firefly are pretty balanced in their strengths, but right now I'm under the impression that Rappa and Boothill are slightly less flexible because they really prefer AOE/single target whereas Firefly can kinda split the difference. That's just my take tho. Plus, I'd also say Firefly is easier to build for beginners and is a better unit to learn how to play and build a break team if that adds anything. And Fugue should 100% be above Boothill and also probably Acheron since we still don't have that primo 4th slot for her quite yet. I'd say the top tier should go a little something like: Robin, Sunday, Ruan Mei, The Herta, Feixiao, Aventurine, Aglaea, Fugue, Lingsha, Acheron, HMC=RMC, Huo Huo, Firefly=Rappa=Boothill, Yunli and then Fu Xuan under Gallagher, since despite not having any direct competition in her type of sustain, I'd argue that at least right now, her sustain isn't really getting its time to shine and I'd argue the best F2P option in a more traditionally useful sustain type is more valuable to build and get on an account. Especially since Gallagher can also do hypercarry stuff with Quid Pro Quo.
I just love seeing JingYuan getting the appreciation he does. A 1.0 unit still meta relevant nearly 2 years after their initial release able to be competitive in 3.0.
@@user-qt1he2pk6d She won’t be powercrept for a while just like Acheron was meta-defining for the entire 2.x because they were both released with a LOT of room to grow, neither had perfect 5* supports and were still clearing fine with low investment 4 star teams
Seeing Boothill so high feels weird because back in 2.3, going from a Boothill to Firefly was an INSANE jump in power. I should dust off my Boothill and give him another shot now that I have Fugue and Sunday. Good video btw!
Not yet id say, the meta is pretty much all AOE accounting for the abundence of full AOE and Blast attackers, but if we see a Hunt 5 star in 3.5 or something then Boothill will probably be really good again
@@MetroidFission ff and rappa will be better as the future content is aoe focused. Also if you have fugue then using ff sustainless will probably the best team for your account.
Probably would've been better to try him out again during less AOE focused content LOL but he still clears content for me even now. He's truly a boss-killer, and he's fun to play. Especially against bosses like Hoolay or Aventurine
I was originally waiting for Aglaea’s release to make this video public, but it felt rather arbitrary with both the creator server going live and most of her theory crafting already being done throughout and after the beta. So, I compromised by putting the preface about her placement. Also, it’s very easy to tell when a new part of the script was added in this video, so hopefully that’s an indication of how many times I’ve gone back and forth on certain units
Great list with nice and nuanced takes. I may not agree 100% but the placements for each unit is close enough and encapsulates the general value of each unit pretty well.
The Herta is really unlike any other carry where she brings really strong buffs for the erudition units that will replace her, as well as targeting typical weaknesses in the erudition kit. It may not turn out this way, but I can see her potentially having a long tail as a sub-dps after her time on top of the meta is over.
Yes, I see Jade the same way as The Herta in having a great future - between the Spd buff, SP positivity, massive self buffs making her less reliant on supports, and the hp consumption allowing for a potential future synergy like with Blade, Jade is quite slow to power creep. Along with erudition as a whole since they always lead Pure Fiction (whilst MoC and AS also sometimes favour AoE), which is now even more in their favour with the ever-resetting mobs, and the mode is generally played with 2 x 2+ dps teams for attack frequency over overkill. And with all the different buffs and enemies favouring different Eruditions in different endgame updates, I find it's hard to permanently bench many of them. My herta, himeko, jade, argenti, the herta are always popping back into relevancy and getting use even though I have pseudo-eruditions like Kafka/ Lingsha/ Acheron. I don't have them but JY and Rappa are also in a good spot as well as Serval who I have never really used (although I expect her spotlight to be more temporary compared to other Eruditions). They had a rocky start but of the dps paths, I think Erudition has seen the best glow up whilst having the hardest characters to power creep since long before their emanator, they always seem designed to fit in teams together.
i see a lot of people saying that boothill doesnt deserve to be on top of the other 2 break dps, but honestly it really depends on situations and preference. Boothill: High ceiling, pretty good floor. Needs either a small mob or an ally that helps him break faster, might struggle in 5 AoE but fugue sorta helps with that. Rappa: Wants (improves a lot with) fugue and sig lc, but has the highest ceiling of all break unit. Still really good w/o img weakness but needs ally help for toughness dmg. Firefly: Really low ceiling, but really easy to play and has a consistent implant. Least reliant on relics and most reliant on supports (due to her low ceiling aswell). Boothill reigns supreme st wise (1-2 targets), meanwhile Rappa is superior in AoE (4-5 targets). Firefly is the most consistent in performance but her peak is the worst, albeit still good performance regardless. Since 90% of players are casuals, it would make sense to put Firefly a bit higher than the rest but it could be in any order still be valid imo.
Could you explain your point of "ceiling" among break DPS units? You mean they have any possible future opportunities for growth? Because everything I see rn is their complete teams: Fugue + HMC + RM (Boothill's performance doesn't fall off hard, if he swaps HMC to Sunday/Bronya). I do doubt hoyo will release more break supports, so I'm afraid all of them can end up like DOT in the near future.
@chaplin1563 yeah, they do have room for improvement, but DoT situation is also possible. Cause Break inherently has lower ceiling than other archetypes due to break scaling with less stats and most archetypes/dps' scale with crit -> more supports benefitting crit archetypes. But it always depends on HoYo's decision in the end. (Unnecessary yap sesh about why FF ceiling is low) Ceiling = potential in higher investment = room for improvement. Floor = performance at low investment. Firefly's significantly lower ceiling vs other break units is due to her almost nonexistent source of dmg from her own kit. Both BH and rappa has great break dmg source from their own talent meanwhile Firefly's dmg relies on allies' SB, due to her BE cap. So her stacking too much break eff is only going to buff ally's SB on top of diminishing returns. Her having really high speed also reduces AA's efficiency, and more SP consumption. And her ult downtime is a significant dmg decrease if you dont clear fast enough.
@@FreitEin15 Thank you, now I see. Also funny to see naive people in comment section argue, what break dps is better and will last longer, when only time will show the truth. And I really hate, that Boothill depends on break, I would prefer him to be a standard crit DPS. So he would benefit from more amount of supports and wouldn't be so dependent on the environment, because break is very vulnerable to cockblocks. F*ck you, Hoyo.
@@FreitEin15 not to mention fireflop is effectively glued to hmc but now we have rmc(and potentially more broken mc path in the future) which make fireflop the worst out of the 3
personally id say bh is the least reliant on relics since u can just slap 2pc BE twice and only care mostly about BE (and spd). ff is close but i had a harder time keeping up with her minimum BE req without her lc.
Rappa is godlike originally was only pulling for her cool animations but she has been over performing soo much im surprised. For an erudition character to be amazing in moc, apocalyptic shadow and pure fiction is crazy. I actually prefer her over firefly since rappa is way less skill point hungry and end game content right now is heavily aoe focused
glad to see another Rappa main, I have no regrets pulling for her E1 S1. She has helped me clear so much end game content, and still going strong. My only constant problem is who clears the other side - so far, Feixiao is holding on, but she's weakening... the current meta favors aoe characters.
I personally think Aventurine should be higher and Lingsha too. I think they are the 2 best sustains currently in the game in terms of both versatility and strength. I feel like Aventurine is what Zhongli would have been if he came out in Natlan, and he just does so much. The fact that both his damage and his sustain scale of the same stat is huge and makes him easier to build, and his follow-ups stacking full-party shields makes him a lot more SP-positive too. He's also got Acheron stuff with Trend, he scales well with vertical investment (ik the criteria is based on E0S0, but still worth considering I think), and can be used in almost every team very well. And for Lingsha, I think the fact that she can work in Sunay teams because of her summon, having a follow-up, AND having some break effect scaling in her kit make her the most universal healer we have. While Huo Huo might be better for energy hungry hypercarries, I'd say Lingsha is much more flexible since she doesn't always need a ton of SP, has healing on skill, burst, AND follow-up, can do pretty good damage in the right builds, and can even be a support for The Herta because of her AOE capabilities. Also, I'd still put The Herta under the harmony big 3 IMO because I feel like they do more for more carries than The Herta does for her supports. Bc while she does give units like Argenti and Serval new niches for ult-spam and AoE for her ramp, I'd still say that more carries are more dependent on at least one of Sunday/Robin/Ruan Mei than supports are on The Herta, but that's just my opinion. Still think she's the best DPS tho.
I have E1 S1 Rappa who has helped perfect clear three Apoc Shadow and three MOC wherever side she's in.... so I'm certainly pulling for more of her eidolons on re-run.
hard disagree with fuxuan being this high up. she doesn't provide enough to be meta rn. hard disagree with boothill being this high. if you are acknowledging rappas shortcomings, you should also consider his. bias with these two is insane. hard disagree whit luocha being behind lynx. disagree with linghsa being below huohuo even considering energy regen. she is just a better sustainer. disagree with march being lower than topaz and moze. she performs the same as moze, sometimes on par with topaz. and she is more versatile. disagree with seele being same tier as dhil and jingliu. she just doesnt use her passive enough to not be in awkard. disagree with xueyi being lower than qq. disagree with bailuu and gepard being below lynx. lynx just doesn't heal enough to be even considered good tldr; fuxuan, boothill and lynx glaze is insane, underappreciation for other 5*sustainers is insane good video though
Hard agree with your lynx take, she is definitely not as good as shes being glazed on the list. Think you're actually spot on with every take here bar the lingsha huohuo one, i just feel like the energy regen is getting farrr too much value with the vast majority of the top units, although lingsha is like a hard carry for pf and everything else sometimes so at best theyre interchangeable? Thats my take anyway Also im fairly certain boothill is higher than rappa because of genuine 100% bias because otherwise shes 100% higher than him with her versatility across all 3 game modes
@@SillySkull Lingsha and Huohuo are hard to place since one is amazing for ult spammers (Huohuo) and the other is an erudition character in the abundance slot (which is insane with fugue+sunday combo on her, straight up disgusting damage). I'd tie them with Lingsha being a bit higher due to her versatility. That said, yeah, I don't understand how luocha is below lynx (boothill is over rappa is somewhat debatable). You can't be saying that the "emergency heal" of Lynx on her ult is better than the perma-healing field of Luocha + panic heal.
Thanks for the feedback! I do think its funny that ive put Fu Xuan lower and lower through every tier list update, only to still be told shes still high. Sustains are just generally difficult to rate, as their usefulness can very wildly depending on how much their utility is even needed. You can have sustainless teams, but the same cant be said about carries or supports, yknow? That being said, I actually felt that Lynx mightve been too LOW haha, so I guess we’ll agree to disagree. The break team rankings are probably the most difficult to rate in the game, so I think any disagreement is very understandable. I try not to spend too much time on units who I wasn’t planning on moving, but spending more time on Boothill and HMC (and why fugue was below boothill) wouldve probably been smart
@Iwasbag yeah i can see rating sustainers being harder than other types. That being said, for me, it is just a matter of comparison. I have two day 1 accounts with almost every character in the game(don't have argenti and blade). So when i am comparing fu xuan to other "better" sustainers, she just feels way more awkard to me. She sometimes doesn't even sustain well enough when that's her main point. And her offensive utilty is lacking compared to other newer units'. All I am saying is really dont see her as a meta unit. Strong and good - yes, for sure, but not meta or comfy enough. In Lynxes case, as i said, she just doesnt provide enough sustainability to be considered somewhat good imo. Cleanse is good and all. But it seems everybody doesn't aknwoledge that it is on her ultimate. I tried a lot of options, and even with the highest regen possible, it doesn't help. The team just dies before she can cleanse for the 3rd-4th time in battle. Luocha in my experience is way better. Break units are hard to rank, understandable. Imo FF is better than other break dds just because of her non-stop weakness implant ability. You can use her almost everywhere. Boothill closer to her but it is his ultimate thqt provide implant which makes it way less comfy for me. With more enemies on field his usability also drops faster. Rappa is worse than these two in my overall experience. Sure their numbers are high, but it not the only thing i rate
I agree that Fu Xuan should still remain relevant in top tier because of the crit buffs and one-shot prevention she provided that Adventurine can't guarantee. In my experience, she's the one that carried my ass to end game content as an ftp player starting the game due to her sustain value that abundance characters can't provide. With min-maxed build, she can't be one-shotted by huge aoe attack. Adventurine can be slightly better in defending against aoe content, but he can't be better in protecting hard hitting single attack from boss. In this current era of break and FuA meta transitioned to aoe crit meta, I still think her value is going to rise as more HP scaling characters are coming and Fu Xuan has the ability to increases max HP. Huo Huo will also be rising as more energy dependant ults and Tribbie coming.
the thing is a lot of 3.x units look like they'll scale off of hp, so where robin fails at buffing them Sunday will come in to do that and in hypercarry (atk scaling) comps with robin he's also extremely good love to see the sibling duo be the best units in the game
Ah, I've been looking for a comment like this talking about HP scalers and yep, we're slowly seeing them now, even the new harmony scales with HP Also, I've barely seen a Robin in a Mydei team, which is an HP scaler, and he's usually with Sunday so maybe we'll see a decline of Robin in 3.x?
@@ChrisNova-h2g Robin is already not bis for The Herta or Mydei, and is only the secondary support for Aglaea. I think we've already started seeing Robin's fall. I'd say Sunday already has higher account value than Robin atm if taking into consideration the next meta, and looking at current leaks about Castorice it seems solidly likely that by 3.1/3.2 Sunday will have overtaken her as strongest character in the game.
its crazy how the only reason i still use my *highly* invested dot team is to SUPPORT my E0 acheron . . . ive never seen a game completely drop an entire archetype like this ☹️ i hope amphoreus gives us something new to work with it soon
Good enough. The order within tiers isn't nearly as important as the tier placement. The only thing I really disagree with is the approach where it feels like people are afraid to link characters we all know are linked. Acheron has her placement because of JQ, without him she easily drops below the break package, but Jiaoqui is 12 characters lower than her. THerta is a the 'best carry' and her best subdps is Jade, but they're 20 characters apart? I just can't agree with that methodology in a teambuilding game.
The Boothill bias is crazy 😭at least put Fugue above Boothill if the argument is that Boothill benefits incredibly from Fugue. But imo Fugue > Rappa/FF > Boothill
@@samraizsaqib6812 not at all firefly performs just as good or better with lower investment and he is unusable in Pf compared to the other who has uses.
@@samraizsaqib6812 bh is only worse than both rappa and ff in moc, apoc shadow and pf. He has more average cycle in moc, less average score in apoc shadow and like no one uses him in pf. Only 2 percent of people use him in moc and only 1.4 use him in apoc. Dude is soo bad that even players having him don’t want to use him😂
@@srishtisharma3908 the CC clearly stated at the start that he was considering team cost and flexibility, Boothill doesn’t require his signature at all and is viable with a 3 star option and half his relic main stats don’t even matter. The teammate options are easily the most flexible out of the 3 break dps with any assortment of Bronya, Sunday, fugue, hmc and Ruan mei whilst not completely relying on them to be viable (not even hating since I use FF often and quite enjoy her but try her without either hmc or ruan Mei and see the dmg fall off). Also if you’re using avg cycles and clears as a means of judging a unit’s viability then JingLiu and Yunli are better than Feixiao currently, if an experienced player were to use Boothill then he can still get lower cost clears that are faster. You could call it a higher skill ceiling with a slightly lower floor but that doesn’t discredit the unit.
The problem with Jing Yuan really is that everyone knows that he just needed a dedicated, direct buff, but the devs kept drip buffing him instead. Whether or not him getting buffed this late being a good thing is contentious, but it's still funny to me how the devs took this long to make this decision that's been obvious for a long time.
This probably sounds like I’m a FF shill but I’ve only been playing along enough to pull her and having her implant fire weakness has helped me clear SO MUCH content I otherwise wouldn’t be able to with fugue/lingsha/gallagher and have rmc with herta and jade so I 100% don’t think FF is any weaker than herta if it weren’t for that implant I wouldn’t have 2 teams.
Returned in 2.7 and wanted to highlight something. Pulled Sunday for JY and recently put The Herta in. Works really well. Specifically Sunday and Bronya help the 2nd erudition carry get more actions to charge The Herta, while benefiting from the 80% Crit Damage which feeds into their crit damage buffing ultimates I think there's a lot of future utility in The Herta as an SP positive support (you don't need the lightcone) with high damage output.
definitely biased, firefly gets bumped down due to meta shift but boothill doesn't when he's suffering even more in the new aoe meta and competes with almost every other dps for action advance supports
His power in single target fights makes up for it I’d say. From what I’ve seen, Firefly shines when there’s multiple enemies, and she takes a bit to actually break when it’s a big boss. Because boothill can be used with AA units, and isn’t locked in a Ruan Mei, HMC, Gallagher/Lingsha team, it gives him value and flexibility and he still stays as a great single-target dps in his best team(s). It’s also why Jingliu fell off. Yeah she’s a 1.0 DPS but her best team was locked and any other variations would be worse than that specific team.
I wouldn't say he needs fugue as much as firefly needs hmc. honestly, firefly is more tied to fugue than boothill is despite boothill getting value out of her. firefly is really bad without a superbreak enabler, while boothill doesn't rely on at all superbreak and has his own implant meaning he doesn't need fugue to function.
@wren8275 an Implant that's on an Ult which isn't accessible immediately. Firefly doesn't need Fugue that much other than doing more Super Break and Delays but Boothill need Fugue to deal with Mobs that doesn't have Physical Weakness
I see Rappa as a volitaile AOE specialist When she works, she works hard. But ONLY in specific situation but she works in those situations. If i wanna make another comparison in another game, it would be the spy from TF2. A specialist who works when his enemies are unaware of him, but absolutely useless when they are aware of him
4:23 B-But...but when Tribbie comes out, plus the Reminiscence Trailblazer at E6 and Robin, Jingliu might be able to stay in Very Strong a little longer 😔
Ngl, I feel like Ruan Mei has definitely begun to drop in value so much so that I would put her near the lower end of meta tier. As of right now, the only team comp shes good in is superbreak as every other team comp is usually better with Robin or Sunday. And even then, her massive dmg% buffs have absolutely 0 synergy with superbreak. On top of that, I’ve seen so many runs being down with Fugue and MC instead of RM that she doesn’t seem as required as she used to be when Fugue wasn’t released yet. In the end you’re only going to need 2 teams at most and when one can be supported by Robin and the other by Sunday, the past argument that RM can be used on the second team even if Robin’s better isn’t as valid anymore. Also, from what we know already, summon-based hypercarry teams are going to be the new meta soon, meaning Sunday will probably become the new best support. That also means the second team will either be Robin, Tribbie, or RM and I just don’t think she outcompetes either of them except in superbreak where she has flaws still. She’s still very good, but she’s just become a bit too niche and will likely no longer be the BIS in either of the two teams.
The thing is a dot support might also release and then even that comp will be taken away from her leaving only superbreak for her. But but, that's just how the meta shifting is, I don't think she'll be replaced in her bis teams, atleast not in another couple of years, and as is actually the one place where super break will always be meta so I don't think she'll fall off the meta tier so easily. For me units that perform really well in as and pf are always going to be good. Like therta can always carry your pf team, even after a year. Ruan mei will still be your to when playing sb teams(provided there's no harmony break support that straight up powercreeps her). The only game mode that is the most changing is moc, where the new characters will always shine no matter their kit. And sometimes in that process the older characters will be a huge disadvantage as well. Nevertheless I think units like ruan mei and therta are really future proof given that they excel in one of the 3 end game modes. And you need 2 teams anyways so they can pretty much cover up your 1 spot so you don't have to think much about the other team you wanna run.
Ruan Mei isnt used in break teams for her dmg% buff, shes used bcs of her weakness efficiency buff (which directly buffs superbreak!). She is still the only unit to provide this to your teammates at E0 (Fugue's E1 being the other). So no, her value in superbreak has not gotten lower.
Thank you for mentioning this. People seem to forget that WBE exists from Ruan's skill somehow. That efficiency boost does help against more tedious bars to break. @@Shibby_EUNE
@@SeanTheShinigami Of course, I'm her number 1 fan! Kidding aside, RM's function in a break team is very simple: WBE, Recovery delay and the spd buff. 10% spd may not look like a lot, but it makes a huge difference in a lot of cases, saving you 10 spd (most of the time) or 3 spd substats. Additionally, her recovery delay is what makes sustainless superbreak as dominant as it is. Yes, HMC and Fugue both send the broken enemies to narnia (in the action bar) but her delaying the bosses a 2nd time gets you SOOO much more dmg. I have no idea why people are so eager to overlook all of this.
Is Argenti still that good? 😳 I always hear him talked about in the category of characters like Blade, Seele and Silverwolf as one of the characters that need buffs so I was thinking you'd move him down like around Jingliu in the "has a lot of uses" tier. Guess thinking Jade took his job permanently was kind of wrong.
He still performs very well in pure fiction and with the shift of other endgame to AoE focus he has gotten off quite well, the new AS bug is very good for him.
He as a hypercarry in the current pf proves to be one of the most high performing pf unit for this cycle, and later on, he might as well be the best tribbie driver for herta comps, even better than jade or serval. He is proving to be a good unit
Please help! The game is forcing me to be an Acheron main! Anyways, it's nice to see that Acheron is not powercrept yet, despite she is out for close to a year now. This shows that Hoyo can indeed make characters that are not getting powercrept or harder to creep them, since that's what gachas feel like to me, constantly one upping predecessors. Also in my eye she is the most unique dps in the whole game defying her path, and commiting literal screenwide nukes basically every (or every 2nd) turn. Also the only thing I do not agree on the tierlist is that she is just below Aglaea because she is a slightly bit easier to invest in and the only thing that I can see that holds her back is her e0 team is not fully fledged yet, since she would need a 2nd nihility support who more or less does what jiaqiou does and I don't think many people go for e2 on Acheron. Anyways, Aglaea has too many pebbles she can trip over making her "ehhh..." to use, but other than that she looks amazing.
I think you're still honestly underselling preservation march, she actually shines pretty well in current apocalyptic shadow against the ice weak swarm king for both rappa and the herta teams, her frequent follow ups and full aoe ultimate being able to charge therta, do good toughness damage for rappa, and actually do a decent job at sustaining with her freezes combined with her shields and the fact that the bugs mostly attack single targets and marchs shields having taunt. I have a friend with e0s0 therta and they actually managed to get a better score with march than with aventurine. Her uses dont end there either, she's generally best in pure fiction where the opportunity cost of not using hunt march is at its lowest, and the mobs are much easier to block with her shield making her an actual comfortable solo sustain. The aforementioned rappa and therta as well as robin + herta/feixiao teams do well with her, but she also has a niche as an acheron stack generator with fugue skill on march so that each follow up inflicts a debuff. She also plays extremely well into the new grit system as an active attacking sustain that can actually stack a good amount of grit, and has multiple ways of doing so with her followups, ultimate, or ice break. I believe in a meta actively moving towards defined niches and with enemy hp ballooning higher and higher, I want my sustains to be able to contribute meaningfully towards offense and actually synergize with the team, which is why I would honestly put preservation march above both gepard and bailu, who are just kind of lacking in niches at this point and are far more passive and thus not really contributing to damage.
even as a firefly main who skipped rappa: rappa > firefly > boothill right now. the bias is clear here. The current aoe meta just steps on space cowboy as hard as jade's ult. luocha > bailu > lynx: lynx just doesn't heal enough, despite being a very good 4* sustain. If bronya's in GVS tier because she's on the standard banner, bailu needs more love. and luocha just needs a small bump up (above seele below clara, maybe) because he's a skill point positive sustain, does AOE damage, runs well off one of the most common relic sets (musketeer) and his buff strip is criminally underrated. fu xuan has to be a crazy case here. How can she be 'the meta' when there's no meta to put around her? Top of GVS tier, maybe, along with Gallagher who I think you underrated just a little bit. and the thing that pains me the most to say about my favorite character in the game...silver wolf needs a demotion to 'awkward' tier. the trend of HSR to have shiny new DPS either 1) implant their own element weakness, or 2) just ignore toughness altogether makes using her really niche. I like this video though, lots of talking points and wiggle room for debate. I really like how knowledgeable you are without being like..over the top with ENTUSIASM AND EXCITEMENT, and you don't use clickbait titles or the same AI voice five other accounts use. Very chill vibe. Looking forward to more of your content!
“RM is the queen of break, Robin is the queen of everything else.” Agreed, still an honorary princess and one of the most universally useful buffers, but only until Remembrance fully revives the hypercarry agenda and devalues AOE buffs. Sunday and RMC are already hypercarry enablers in the same style as Bronya and Tingyun so if Hoyo leans all the way into that with later units-one easy example from the dev side would be introducing a Preservation or Abundance unit who gives stronger buffs or sustain if there is only one Destruction/Erudition/Hunt unit on the team-in addition to introducing more unbreakable enemies, I could definitely see RM dropping in later patches. The purple thing that steals loot in the overworld and demands attack/skill/ult at random within a certain time frame is already a direct example of shifting priorities back onto the Action Advance and Energy Regeneration of old, the exact same way the trashcan enemies who didn’t even have health bars(as someone who owns most of the break meta units, still a dick move) were introduced to shift priorities onto Break Efficiency. They tried to make you feel like crap for not owning RM then. Now it’s Sunday’s turn.
I would even go as far to place yunli above firefly. She works in every mode and has a ton of teams she can use. I find myself using her almost every rotation on one side just because i know shell clear it. Its a nice safety valve to have if i cant think of a team to counter the endgame or if i dont wanna bother
As much as I liked this tier list, the reasons to drop off Firefly are a bit of a strech since Boothill is still unchanged when he has clearly suffered as much as her in the new 3.0 meta scene. A boothill team is not the same without ruan mei and fugue, it's just not. Every break dps exsist with Ruan mei and Fugue in their context, the fact that Firefly uses Harmony mc is lowkey a boon since Fugue is not mandatory for her but is for Rappa and Boothill. So I think that Boothill has to drop to the same level as Firefly and Rappa, they all fill in the same niche but with their different cons and pros. Also even if super break isn't the best flavor of the month anymore I think the general opinion is being waaaaay to harsh with them since they can clear content as easily as other dps while needed at bare minimum less investement and their ceiling has reached new potential with sustainless teams with Fugue Ruan mei and HMC, which are the safes and easier sustainless teams to run thanks to delays (fugue, hmc, boothill, rappa) or straight up having more hp% and self sustain (all break support running hp%/def% orb and firefly being almost immortal). I wanted to share my opinion because I saw that the totally valid arguements that you used to bump down some units aren't being used universally, which is to be expected as tier list are subjective and biases are normal. For example even Jing Yuan I think he's being treated a bit unfairly as most of the main dps have that synergistic pairing that makes or breaks them, every dps has that pairing expect for the herta as she just doesn't care about anything and works even in the cheapest teams ever. But I wanted to write this to maybe make you aware of this with much love and respect since I really like how you make tier lists! :) ♡
@@gustykrakenno? Firefly can also implant way easier. And if there are two enemies on the field and you don't have sunday his clear times fall off a cliff. He is rated way to hughly
@@gustykraken The problem is that the game is starting to take a mt endgames and he is just trash in pf where rappa and ff+himeko destroy him, he is worse than rappa and ff in this AS and he is worse than rappa and ff in this moc 😭😭😭 he can't spread his dmg like feixiao he is the worst break dps rn
I think generalism is a much better trait than you give units credit for. My biggest example of this is Argenti. He has a pretty great free-to-play support in Tingyun, and other than that his team can be pretty much anything you want it to be (even though I didn't use Tingyun and still don't because I didn't like her voice until they changed it). His intrinsic Crit Rate buff makes him much easier to build as a dps, as you can be a bit wishywashy with his crit rate, especially if you have teammates that give him a crit rate buff (my Fu Xuan and him have been best buds since he came out, and my sunday has found a home supporting him). I feel like I'd probably put him above Jade, as he doesn't require any particular kind of teammate (though he does shine with energy regen units, but he does regenerate his own energy pretty fast from his talent and traces based around regenerating energy) because even though some of Jade's best units are free-to-play (some as in Herta), right now her role in the meta is as a support for The Herta, a limited dps. This might just be me enjoying my favorite units a bit too much though.
its a fact, march damage is bigger because its backloaded on her eba while topaz damage is spread throughout her high attack frequency thats why everyone thinks march is better, but in totality topaz will have the edge especially when numby gets advanced by allies fuas (aventurine, ratio, topaz herself) and also buff wise e0 topaz's 50% fua vulnerability is better than the 10% spd and 60% cdmg that e6 march offers
@@dontuknowhowsweetittastes No everyone thinks March is better because she is. I hate this frankly wrong idea that Topaz attacks more than March and therefore does more damage. I broke it down in my excel using Swoart Gaming's video for Topaz and Zetto Genshin's video for March, same team for both and same MOC. The amount of motion value damage Topaz did in the first wave for 2.7 was 1600 compared to March's 3120. Topaz hit the enemy a total of 9 times compared to March's 13 TIMES. Hell even prydwen and their somewhat flawed damage graphs show March doing more damage than Topaz. The only thing keeping Topaz relevant is that she gives a debuff for Dr. Ratio which makes her better than March for him (unless lightning weak then Moze is better). For a limited 5* her performance is mediocre and has better cheaper options in her replacements or better buffers.
@@irena4929 Moze is great but still doesn't have a perfect team because Robin goes afk in her ultimate so he loses out on an entire character to proc his damage. He is kind of hard to math out because of all his different crit builds (ATK/ERR Rope, Duran/Vonwaq/Lushaka, Eagle/Diver).
Also I find it hard to think about the aoe meta direction in terms of the bigger picture because apparently hoyo has decided that even moc or apocalyptic shadow can be turned into full aoe shill fights, but on the flipside I cannot possibly foresee a "single target pure fiction". This just makes evaluating single target carries against aoe carries awkward because even if the meta is trying to shill single target units, the aoe carries will always excel in pure fiction regardless, and unfortunately I think that does tip the scales in favor of aoe units. Like I really wanna defend my boy luka, and if this were around feixiao's release I would have called you crazy for putting him that low, but everything is just so aoe nowadays and I can't justify him much anymore. I do think he will shine once again when the meta stops shilling aoe and he actually get to fight favorable bosses again, but overall its just not looking that good for him
I agree with most of this but would make a few changes at least in the meta tier Id put pretty much all Break Carries/Enablers together atm in the order of RM>Fugue>HMC>Rappa=Firefly=Boothill, I love Boothill and do think he has the raw potential to preform better (mainly as his damage is I still think the height ST damage in the game per turn) but all 3 break carries pretty much excel in Aoe (Rappa), Blast (Firefly), and Single Target (Boothill) So I don't think they really should be that separate only with one being higher or lower based on what content is currently being favored to. Additionally even though its a premium option, putting Fugues buff on Lingsha or Gallagher helps mitigate Rappa's lack of implant significantly (also helps Boothill in AoE content a bit) as she doesn't get any value from the partial colorless as she already has that so by doing that it enables her to be substantially more flexible. And the one other change is putting Agleea around Yunli level, I think she is stronger but just like Jing Yuan Sunday Vs No Sunday is such a big difference an unlike break who at least has 2 SB enablers now nobody can truly replicate what sunday does for summons yet
i think the criteria section was organised confusingly since its mixing an explanation of itself into it what are you judging them on? -how useful they are (team versatility and damage potential?) -the cost to make them useful (teammates, eidolons, signatures) what assumptions are you making? -the individual character is on your account -you probably have to pull for any limited items needed to make them useful therefore, characters who are universal and cheap to use will rank highly on this list also i dont think i quite get the point of the example with bronya. you say that bronya is valuable even if sunday exists but then follow by saying if a character's competition is cheap and outclasses the character, the character will suffer. it feels like youre saying characters have their own value separate from the existence of other characters while also saying that their value will be lowered if better options exist. since you are judging characters based on how much use you can get out of them if you own them, having their value lowered because another character you might not own exists feels off
People should stop pulling sparkle of she getting rerun and pull for both tribbie and Sunday. Sparkle value has been dropped to 0 siince the introduction of Sunday and Tribbie😂
Why does a cost of a unit aka pulls do not matter? I think it's really important to know what that unit will get you compared to a free one, cuz at the end of the day if it costs me 90 pulls to get a unit that will help me get ~80 jades more that a free one then is it worth it?
Ah I just dont know what to get THerta lc or Jade. I have all other erudition units built and got 2 milky ways already. The +1 skill point must be so good godanmit
The game can pry my E2 DHIL out of my cold dead hands. I will keep enjoying my Sunday/Fugue DHIL team. Just a response to you moving him down, not saying you are wrong(i know how the comment section on TH-cam works).
-I just don't think Boothill will be there for long with AOE meta, sadly he will fall of a bit (below Firefly) -Herta is pretty chill in her nice and comfy AoE ice weak environment but not above Sunday and Ruan Mei -Rappa should be below Fugue she is an AoE breaker after all (that really likes Fugue) -Aglea is really a mistery with her high speed and consistent attacks but i don't know about how to fix her energy issues (without e1) -Jingliu can be used again with ice weak content so maybe above BlackSwan? -Firefly can be under Fugue as well
here are my thoughts Therta is not the 2nd best unit people are overestimating her cause of current moc buff is she great? Yes but not too this extent like if i have to make a dps tierlist this is what it would be imo No.1 Feixiao No.2 Aglaea (As long as you have sunday) No.3 Therta also i don't think Acheron/Boothill/fugue/hmc/rappa/Yunli/fuxuan/Firefly should be in "The meta" but rather "Generally very strong" just because of how better the other units are from "Generally very strong" I think put Serval in "Has a lot of use" because of Therta and Tribbie she will have her use but she is basically only good in 1 team and there she still has her replacement (Argenti if u have him even if he is limited 5 star) from "Has a lot of use" i would say you can bump down SW to maybe beside Welt she is just not good man same with seele bump her a tier down because of hp inflation she will continue to become worse and worse more compared to any other unit in-game just because of how her machines works aside that I would suggest to have 1 more tier between "The meta" "Generally very strong" like i would like to change some units tier from "Generally very strong" but putting them in above or below in the tiers will be wrong like JQ he is in the top of the tier sure but in the same tier you also have ratio or the units i mentioned above going from "The meta" to that new tier and stuff
Don't know if it is just me, but i can clear end game with acheron with RMC, fugue and gallagher. but i for sure want to summon for him. I saved all my jades for him since i last summoned on fugue and sunday.
this makes no sense. firefly and rappa are also straight up unplayable without hmc/fugue. “hmc is free!!” rmc exists now so theres competition. in general, they demand at least 2 other five star supports (RM NEEDS to be there) and greatly benefit from having lingsha on the team. (another 5 star) acheron ONLY wants jiaoqiu, then can run gallagher + pela as final 2 slots, at e0s1. It’s still 3 cost, guys. average break team is 3+ cost, average acheron team is 2-3 cost.
good list but either pull up jq or bump hmc down man fugue and rmc completely overshadow hmc in their only niche whereas jiaoqui is still the best for acheron i cant imagine using acheron without jq tbh move the blind man up
Tbh i would move rappa lower, the reason Why is simple, her weakness CANT be undone yet, out of all break dps she the only one who NEED her element weakness on enemy
I generally agree with the tier you placed units in, but have big disagreements on where they are within the tiers Boothill being above Fugue, HMC, and FIREFLY is crazy to me hahaha For my account Firefly has felt like the strongest DPS unit right after Therta (above Acheron and Feixiao IMO) across the span of content - I think the big 3 harmony trio is arguable in which order you put them in, but I think they are the three best units in the game. I would favor a format with more tiers to allow for more nuance.
Bh is literally soo much worse than rappa and ff. He has like a 2 percent usage rate in moc and 1.4 percent in apoc shadow, don’t even talk about pf. Still even after having soo less usage rate, he still takes more average cycle in moc compared to rappa or ff. Average bh main is barely clearing apoc shadow while ff or rappa mains are easily clearing apoc shadow. And ff and rappa can actually easily clear pf 40. Another delusional bh user😔
Boothills usage rate is due to him having a low summon rate, people that actually care about low cycle clears and research it in the actual communities that's NOT prydwn know that BH>>>FF for MoC and AS. I know FF glazers will never wanna leave the waifu but she isn't even a top 5 damage dealing unit rn
@@Malvekazar767 are you dumb or something ? Bh and Ff literally have the same lowest cost for 0 cycle in every moc after fugue release (except svarog as ff can 3 cost while bh cannot). Only 2 percent players use him and still his average cycle for moc clear is much worse than rappa or ff . His average score is even lower than Acheron, yunli and many many others. Him having 2 percent usage rate means that people who use him have invested highly in him still he is soo bad. Average bh main is clearing apoc shadow with 3351 points compared to 3439 of ff. Average bh main takes 8.68 cycles to clear moc while an average ff takes 8.11. I suppose you don’t even want to talk about pf. He is worse than all his competitors in all 3 modes💀, Might as well rename him bullshit instead of boothill .
@@Malvekazar767 ya his summon rate is low cause no one wants to waste pulls on bh when ff and rappa are much better. Let’s wate for 3.X Moc’s then his average cycle will be straight up 10+
@@Malvekazar767 his apoc average score is 3358 while ff has 3439. His average moc clear is 8.68 cycles while ff has 8.11. I suppose You don’t want to talk about pf. You can cope all you want , that won’t make bh better
The tier list is good, but in my opinion all break dps tier is: Rappa (bcs the next meta gonna be for Erudition unit, like Nikador for example), then Firefly and in the end Boothill. And i am pretty sure even Acheron is too high for her dmg output rn, i would put her behind Firefly and ahead of Boothill.
Imo acheron is so overrated i would easily place her before the break dps’ at e0s0 she’s not worth getting imo especially since she’s so reliant on a mid unit like jiaoqiu
The only 2 characters that i dont agree are bh and fuxuan. Bh is really good as a boss killer but he is the worst break dps, rappa and firefly are just so broken and they both can clear pf something thar bh cant do at all, not only that even as a single target dps he is worst that a feixiao by a lot, and finally even for the break arquetipe he is not that much of a priority unlike fugue and hmc. The placement should be ruan>fugue>hmc>ff=rappa>bh. Over all there is no reason to pull bh becuase there are so many opcions better than him. And fuxuan is good but she has a lot of problems and you really dont need her at all. Fr i have her and i dont use her at all because galleger is so good not only in break but in general is just better. Her biggest problem is that she has no arquetipe or team that really want her at all and also there are so much more enemies that damage all your team that is more hard to play her because she will get one shoted if you dont invest in her at all. Over all she does her job but not that good anymore and also aventurine, lingsha and galleger are just so much better than her thar she just is not worth pulling or using at all. ( not gonna lie just put her ass down next to linx and luocha ) Is a good list but those 2 does not deserve those placement at all 😅
I really think Bhil over FF is absolute madness, FF is better in 90% of cenarios in my humble opinion, a lot more gameplay flexible even if she needs two of RM, HMC and Fugue. The fact Bhil does so poorly on AOE content is a huge turn off for me, that spent 15 dollars on 3 passes and will not spend more than 5 a month. The rest is really reasonable tho, i like your explanations and presentation
jiaoqiu, hunt march and bronya being rated lower than characters like fu xuan, firefly and yunli is a crazy bad take seele is nowhere near as bad as jingliu sampo+bs is better than kafka+bs more often than not lynx is a terrible sustain. gepard, bailu and m7 are all better dan heng is better than sushang
i kind of agree with the list, but in terms of the "meta" placement i'd rank them like this: 1) Robin 2) Sunday 3) Lingsha 4) The Herta 5) Fugue 6) Ruan Mei 7) Huohuo (from this patch onwards) 8) Aventurine 9) Jiaoqiu 10) Feixiao
@@femto9838 you’re under rating rm soo much, all 3 break DPS just straight up need her. She can be used on any team in the entire game. There is a reason why she always have the highest usage rate in every mode.
@ If im not playing break it's easier for me to replace Ruan Mei with Robin in 90% of scenarios even in DoT. Robin is also way better in dual dps teams. It's not like Ruan Mei is bad, she's extremely good, but Robin is just better. RM is a jack of all trades master of none and she'll start losing value sooner than later with more dedicated supports for specific archetypes, like Fugue and Sunday.
@ she's straight up the best abundance character in the game. Break support, extremely high dmg for an abundance character, aoe cleanse, aoe heal, summon, debuff enemies with her LC, procs stacks for herta, works in both break and follow up teams, can even be played as a break dps. She does way too much even outside her role but sure bro im glazing lmao
@@femto9838 out of like 6 meta dps, 3 are break. That alone put rm really high. She’s really good for hp scalers like blade or mydei. She’s not much worse than robin in other comps. She has a 87 percent usage rate in moc while robin has 60.
I definitely think seele should move up. She’s still competitive even now and is able to take advantage of the upcoming AoE meta as she really benefits from her passive. Shes no where near jinglu tier or DHIL tier in my opinion. She also takes grant advantage of RMCs true dmg since it doesn’t kill steal like how robins ult dmg does.
Lingsha and huohuo are my enemy #1 for being so goddamn broken and power creeping luocha and Gallagher. I cannot wait to get a new healer that’s actually a pleasant character with a good design
it's not like luocha or gallagher or aventurine were pleasant characters in terms of personality. not pleasant in terms of design either, but that's subjective. you're just biased, that's it
@@user-mg4rc1qw6w what the fuck are you talking about literally all of them are much better characters, design, personality, storyline, writing, bar for bar better than some perfume woman with rosacea
![So, uh... 𝔗𝔥𝔢 Herta is kinda cracked for this account [Honkai: Star Rail Erudition Only]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2kcbie5sbNE/mqdefault.jpg)
![So, uh... 𝔗𝔥𝔢 Herta is kinda cracked for this account [Honkai: Star Rail Erudition Only]](/img/tr.png)
The general consensus that ive gotten from the comments is that the break order is a bit scuffed, i could see placing fugue above boothill, and maybe putting him down next to/under firefly.
That whole archetype is really hard to judge, since theres so many overlapping premium options that HEAVILY sway how strong each carry can be. But the order of Ruan mei>Fugue>HMC>Rappa=Boothill>Firefly would maybe make sense? With the conventional thinking of supports being more valuable for an account over carries.
Ill have something more solid in the next tier list update!
Personally the order for me would be RM > Fugue >= Rappa >= Firefly >= HMC = Boothill, I think HMC is of course a top tier support but their usage is almost solely defined by the 3 premium break dps, and even boothill somewhat rarely uses hmc.
Also this has probably been said already but fu xuan is waaaayyyy too high she is such a bench warmer nowadays honestly. I would straight up put her below serval, I got E1 fu xuan even and I still haven't touched her in almost half a year
What's the base character equipment?
E0s1 or e0s0?
I'm not sure I entirely agree with you saying Boothill is less reliant on break supports than Firefly. Bc while I did get lucky and manage E1S1 and also getting Fugue in 2.7, even when my Firefly was E0S0 I was able to get pretty good milage out of her in the endgame. And I've even had pretty good success with her even without her premium teams. I've split certain floors of MoC and even Apoc into 2 break teams budgeting out Fugue, Gallagher, Lingsha, and HMC or sometimes using Fugue or RMC with Acheron on one side and the other with Firefly on the other side. And I can say she still does well enough even with only 2 of her top supports in a team (and I don't even have Ruan Mei). Like I could get good clears with Firefly, Sunday/Bronya, Fugue/HMC, Gallagher/Lingsha. Obv I'm not saying shes' above The Herta or Feixiao, but I'd say she isn't that far behind the other break DPS. I truly think that Rappa, Boothill, and Firefly are pretty balanced in their strengths, but right now I'm under the impression that Rappa and Boothill are slightly less flexible because they really prefer AOE/single target whereas Firefly can kinda split the difference. That's just my take tho. Plus, I'd also say Firefly is easier to build for beginners and is a better unit to learn how to play and build a break team if that adds anything. And Fugue should 100% be above Boothill and also probably Acheron since we still don't have that primo 4th slot for her quite yet.
I'd say the top tier should go a little something like: Robin, Sunday, Ruan Mei, The Herta, Feixiao, Aventurine, Aglaea, Fugue, Lingsha, Acheron, HMC=RMC, Huo Huo, Firefly=Rappa=Boothill, Yunli and then Fu Xuan under Gallagher, since despite not having any direct competition in her type of sustain, I'd argue that at least right now, her sustain isn't really getting its time to shine and I'd argue the best F2P option in a more traditionally useful sustain type is more valuable to build and get on an account. Especially since Gallagher can also do hypercarry stuff with Quid Pro Quo.
"Of five people... Three must be powercrept. You are not one of them, Jing Yuan."
Jing Yuan playing the long game, true master strategist.
Investing in victory, means playing the long game
@@Daruma.daruna The short game
@@darknessflame8826 how is 1.0 to 3.0 short 🧍🏻♂️
Jingyuan already know his future with his master diviner foresight 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥
Truly a master stroke
I just love seeing JingYuan getting the appreciation he does. A 1.0 unit still meta relevant nearly 2 years after their initial release able to be competitive in 3.0.
Out of 5 people, 3 people had payed the price 😭
@@Hudsonl-u2t Ruan mei and jing yuan were those 2 who didn't pay that price 😭
only relevant if you have sunday
Not "still meta", he was mediocre, yet usable with bronya/sparkle, only after Sunday he reached the paradise of high tiers
@@reulerytbh I’d consider him a must have. He’s an amazing support even without his niche.
The Herta enhanced skill mixed with the true dmg from RMC is just so satisfying to look at
ikr. she's way too strong. i went from barely clearing pure fiction to completely obliterate 1 side with just 2 herta rmc and Gallagher
She feels so strong yet i think they can still powercreep her just like when 2.0 penacony Archeron dropping.
@@user-qt1he2pk6d She won’t be powercrept for a while just like Acheron was meta-defining for the entire 2.x because they were both released with a LOT of room to grow, neither had perfect 5* supports and were still clearing fine with low investment 4 star teams
Is RMC better than Sunday for Therta?
@@atlasss4628 sunday is better for the crit buffs and energy
I think i saw every single change i wanted to see in your tier list actually happen. Huge W for Jing Yuan my goat
Seeing Boothill so high feels weird because back in 2.3, going from a Boothill to Firefly was an INSANE jump in power. I should dust off my Boothill and give him another shot now that I have Fugue and Sunday. Good video btw!
Not yet id say, the meta is pretty much all AOE accounting for the abundence of full AOE and Blast attackers, but if we see a Hunt 5 star in 3.5 or something then Boothill will probably be really good again
@@MetroidFission ff and rappa will be better as the future content is aoe focused. Also if you have fugue then using ff sustainless will probably the best team for your account.
if you wanna brute force the endgame contents, trust in boothill
Probably would've been better to try him out again during less AOE focused content LOL but he still clears content for me even now. He's truly a boss-killer, and he's fun to play. Especially against bosses like Hoolay or Aventurine
@@kiel127nah fr, I managed to clear pf 40k with him... the new mechanics are a lot easier tbf
I was originally waiting for Aglaea’s release to make this video public, but it felt rather arbitrary with both the creator server going live and most of her theory crafting already being done throughout and after the beta.
So, I compromised by putting the preface about her placement. Also, it’s very easy to tell when a new part of the script was added in this video, so hopefully that’s an indication of how many times I’ve gone back and forth on certain units
Great list with nice and nuanced takes. I may not agree 100% but the placements for each unit is close enough and encapsulates the general value of each unit pretty well.
The fact that all the new units are placed in the meta tier shows how fast hsr meta changes
The Herta is really unlike any other carry where she brings really strong buffs for the erudition units that will replace her, as well as targeting typical weaknesses in the erudition kit. It may not turn out this way, but I can see her potentially having a long tail as a sub-dps after her time on top of the meta is over.
The best thing for me she brings is now it's way easier to build other units with the crit buff she provides
Yes, I see Jade the same way as The Herta in having a great future - between the Spd buff, SP positivity, massive self buffs making her less reliant on supports, and the hp consumption allowing for a potential future synergy like with Blade, Jade is quite slow to power creep.
Along with erudition as a whole since they always lead Pure Fiction (whilst MoC and AS also sometimes favour AoE), which is now even more in their favour with the ever-resetting mobs, and the mode is generally played with 2 x 2+ dps teams for attack frequency over overkill. And with all the different buffs and enemies favouring different Eruditions in different endgame updates, I find it's hard to permanently bench many of them. My herta, himeko, jade, argenti, the herta are always popping back into relevancy and getting use even though I have pseudo-eruditions like Kafka/ Lingsha/ Acheron. I don't have them but JY and Rappa are also in a good spot as well as Serval who I have never really used (although I expect her spotlight to be more temporary compared to other Eruditions).
They had a rocky start but of the dps paths, I think Erudition has seen the best glow up whilst having the hardest characters to power creep since long before their emanator, they always seem designed to fit in teams together.
i see a lot of people saying that boothill doesnt deserve to be on top of the other 2 break dps, but honestly it really depends on situations and preference.
Boothill: High ceiling, pretty good floor. Needs either a small mob or an ally that helps him break faster, might struggle in 5 AoE but fugue sorta helps with that.
Rappa: Wants (improves a lot with) fugue and sig lc, but has the highest ceiling of all break unit. Still really good w/o img weakness but needs ally help for toughness dmg.
Firefly: Really low ceiling, but really easy to play and has a consistent implant. Least reliant on relics and most reliant on supports (due to her low ceiling aswell).
Boothill reigns supreme st wise (1-2 targets), meanwhile Rappa is superior in AoE (4-5 targets). Firefly is the most consistent in performance but her peak is the worst, albeit still good performance regardless.
Since 90% of players are casuals, it would make sense to put Firefly a bit higher than the rest but it could be in any order still be valid imo.
Could you explain your point of "ceiling" among break DPS units? You mean they have any possible future opportunities for growth? Because everything I see rn is their complete teams: Fugue + HMC + RM (Boothill's performance doesn't fall off hard, if he swaps HMC to Sunday/Bronya). I do doubt hoyo will release more break supports, so I'm afraid all of them can end up like DOT in the near future.
@chaplin1563 yeah, they do have room for improvement, but DoT situation is also possible. Cause Break inherently has lower ceiling than other archetypes due to break scaling with less stats and most archetypes/dps' scale with crit -> more supports benefitting crit archetypes. But it always depends on HoYo's decision in the end.
(Unnecessary yap sesh about why FF ceiling is low)
Ceiling = potential in higher investment = room for improvement. Floor = performance at low investment. Firefly's significantly lower ceiling vs other break units is due to her almost nonexistent source of dmg from her own kit. Both BH and rappa has great break dmg source from their own talent meanwhile Firefly's dmg relies on allies' SB, due to her BE cap. So her stacking too much break eff is only going to buff ally's SB on top of diminishing returns. Her having really high speed also reduces AA's efficiency, and more SP consumption. And her ult downtime is a significant dmg decrease if you dont clear fast enough.
@@FreitEin15 Thank you, now I see.
Also funny to see naive people in comment section argue, what break dps is better and will last longer, when only time will show the truth. And I really hate, that Boothill depends on break, I would prefer him to be a standard crit DPS. So he would benefit from more amount of supports and wouldn't be so dependent on the environment, because break is very vulnerable to cockblocks. F*ck you, Hoyo.
@@FreitEin15 not to mention fireflop is effectively glued to hmc but now we have rmc(and potentially more broken mc path in the future) which make fireflop the worst out of the 3
personally id say bh is the least reliant on relics since u can just slap 2pc BE twice and only care mostly about BE (and spd). ff is close but i had a harder time keeping up with her minimum BE req without her lc.
Rappa is godlike originally was only pulling for her cool animations but she has been over performing soo much im surprised. For an erudition character to be amazing in moc, apocalyptic shadow and pure fiction is crazy. I actually prefer her over firefly since rappa is way less skill point hungry and end game content right now is heavily aoe focused
glad to see another Rappa main, I have no regrets pulling for her E1 S1. She has helped me clear so much end game content, and still going strong. My only constant problem is who clears the other side - so far, Feixiao is holding on, but she's weakening... the current meta favors aoe characters.
Yeah that’s my issue to but now I’m building the herta so I’m covered
I personally think Aventurine should be higher and Lingsha too. I think they are the 2 best sustains currently in the game in terms of both versatility and strength. I feel like Aventurine is what Zhongli would have been if he came out in Natlan, and he just does so much. The fact that both his damage and his sustain scale of the same stat is huge and makes him easier to build, and his follow-ups stacking full-party shields makes him a lot more SP-positive too. He's also got Acheron stuff with Trend, he scales well with vertical investment (ik the criteria is based on E0S0, but still worth considering I think), and can be used in almost every team very well. And for Lingsha, I think the fact that she can work in Sunay teams because of her summon, having a follow-up, AND having some break effect scaling in her kit make her the most universal healer we have. While Huo Huo might be better for energy hungry hypercarries, I'd say Lingsha is much more flexible since she doesn't always need a ton of SP, has healing on skill, burst, AND follow-up, can do pretty good damage in the right builds, and can even be a support for The Herta because of her AOE capabilities. Also, I'd still put The Herta under the harmony big 3 IMO because I feel like they do more for more carries than The Herta does for her supports. Bc while she does give units like Argenti and Serval new niches for ult-spam and AoE for her ramp, I'd still say that more carries are more dependent on at least one of Sunday/Robin/Ruan Mei than supports are on The Herta, but that's just my opinion. Still think she's the best DPS tho.
I have E1 S1 Rappa who has helped perfect clear three Apoc Shadow and three MOC wherever side she's in.... so I'm certainly pulling for more of her eidolons on re-run.
hard disagree with fuxuan being this high up. she doesn't provide enough to be meta rn.
hard disagree with boothill being this high. if you are acknowledging rappas shortcomings, you should also consider his. bias with these two is insane.
hard disagree whit luocha being behind lynx.
disagree with linghsa being below huohuo even considering energy regen. she is just a better sustainer.
disagree with march being lower than topaz and moze. she performs the same as moze, sometimes on par with topaz. and she is more versatile.
disagree with seele being same tier as dhil and jingliu. she just doesnt use her passive enough to not be in awkard.
disagree with xueyi being lower than qq.
disagree with bailuu and gepard being below lynx. lynx just doesn't heal enough to be even considered good
tldr; fuxuan, boothill and lynx glaze is insane, underappreciation for other 5*sustainers is insane
good video though
Hard agree with your lynx take, she is definitely not as good as shes being glazed on the list. Think you're actually spot on with every take here bar the lingsha huohuo one, i just feel like the energy regen is getting farrr too much value with the vast majority of the top units, although lingsha is like a hard carry for pf and everything else sometimes so at best theyre interchangeable? Thats my take anyway
Also im fairly certain boothill is higher than rappa because of genuine 100% bias because otherwise shes 100% higher than him with her versatility across all 3 game modes
@@SillySkull Lingsha and Huohuo are hard to place since one is amazing for ult spammers (Huohuo) and the other is an erudition character in the abundance slot (which is insane with fugue+sunday combo on her, straight up disgusting damage). I'd tie them with Lingsha being a bit higher due to her versatility.
That said, yeah, I don't understand how luocha is below lynx (boothill is over rappa is somewhat debatable). You can't be saying that the "emergency heal" of Lynx on her ult is better than the perma-healing field of Luocha + panic heal.
Thanks for the feedback! I do think its funny that ive put Fu Xuan lower and lower through every tier list update, only to still be told shes still high. Sustains are just generally difficult to rate, as their usefulness can very wildly depending on how much their utility is even needed.
You can have sustainless teams, but the same cant be said about carries or supports, yknow? That being said, I actually felt that Lynx mightve been too LOW haha, so I guess we’ll agree to disagree.
The break team rankings are probably the most difficult to rate in the game, so I think any disagreement is very understandable. I try not to spend too much time on units who I wasn’t planning on moving, but spending more time on Boothill and HMC (and why fugue was below boothill) wouldve probably been smart
@Iwasbag yeah i can see rating sustainers being harder than other types. That being said, for me, it is just a matter of comparison. I have two day 1 accounts with almost every character in the game(don't have argenti and blade). So when i am comparing fu xuan to other "better" sustainers, she just feels way more awkard to me. She sometimes doesn't even sustain well enough when that's her main point. And her offensive utilty is lacking compared to other newer units'. All I am saying is really dont see her as a meta unit. Strong and good - yes, for sure, but not meta or comfy enough.
In Lynxes case, as i said, she just doesnt provide enough sustainability to be considered somewhat good imo. Cleanse is good and all. But it seems everybody doesn't aknwoledge that it is on her ultimate. I tried a lot of options, and even with the highest regen possible, it doesn't help. The team just dies before she can cleanse for the 3rd-4th time in battle. Luocha in my experience is way better.
Break units are hard to rank, understandable. Imo FF is better than other break dds just because of her non-stop weakness implant ability. You can use her almost everywhere. Boothill closer to her but it is his ultimate thqt provide implant which makes it way less comfy for me. With more enemies on field his usability also drops faster. Rappa is worse than these two in my overall experience. Sure their numbers are high, but it not the only thing i rate
I agree that Fu Xuan should still remain relevant in top tier because of the crit buffs and one-shot prevention she provided that Adventurine can't guarantee.
In my experience, she's the one that carried my ass to end game content as an ftp player starting the game due to her sustain value that abundance characters can't provide. With min-maxed build, she can't be one-shotted by huge aoe attack. Adventurine can be slightly better in defending against aoe content, but he can't be better in protecting hard hitting single attack from boss. In this current era of break and FuA meta transitioned to aoe crit meta, I still think her value is going to rise as more HP scaling characters are coming and Fu Xuan has the ability to increases max HP. Huo Huo will also be rising as more energy dependant ults and Tribbie coming.
the thing is a lot of 3.x units look like they'll scale off of hp, so where robin fails at buffing them Sunday will come in to do that and in hypercarry (atk scaling) comps with robin he's also extremely good
love to see the sibling duo be the best units in the game
Ah, I've been looking for a comment like this talking about HP scalers and yep, we're slowly seeing them now, even the new harmony scales with HP
Also, I've barely seen a Robin in a Mydei team, which is an HP scaler, and he's usually with Sunday so maybe we'll see a decline of Robin in 3.x?
@@ChrisNova-h2g Robin is already not bis for The Herta or Mydei, and is only the secondary support for Aglaea. I think we've already started seeing Robin's fall. I'd say Sunday already has higher account value than Robin atm if taking into consideration the next meta, and looking at current leaks about Castorice it seems solidly likely that by 3.1/3.2 Sunday will have overtaken her as strongest character in the game.
this is miles better than prydwen's tier list. i genuinely agree with all of your takes. good job ! !
its crazy how the only reason i still use my *highly* invested dot team is to SUPPORT my E0 acheron . . . ive never seen a game completely drop an entire archetype like this ☹️ i hope amphoreus gives us something new to work with it soon
Good enough. The order within tiers isn't nearly as important as the tier placement. The only thing I really disagree with is the approach where it feels like people are afraid to link characters we all know are linked. Acheron has her placement because of JQ, without him she easily drops below the break package, but Jiaoqui is 12 characters lower than her. THerta is a the 'best carry' and her best subdps is Jade, but they're 20 characters apart? I just can't agree with that methodology in a teambuilding game.
The Boothill bias is crazy 😭at least put Fugue above Boothill if the argument is that Boothill benefits incredibly from Fugue. But imo Fugue > Rappa/FF > Boothill
He’s way lower cost compared to both other break dps, cheaper to build and gives similar or better performance with lower investment.
@@samraizsaqib6812 not at all firefly performs just as good or better with lower investment and he is unusable in Pf compared to the other who has uses.
@@samraizsaqib6812 bh is only worse than both rappa and ff in moc, apoc shadow and pf. He has more average cycle in moc, less average score in apoc shadow and like no one uses him in pf. Only 2 percent of people use him in moc and only 1.4 use him in apoc. Dude is soo bad that even players having him don’t want to use him😂
You’re correct
@@srishtisharma3908 the CC clearly stated at the start that he was considering team cost and flexibility, Boothill doesn’t require his signature at all and is viable with a 3 star option and half his relic main stats don’t even matter. The teammate options are easily the most flexible out of the 3 break dps with any assortment of Bronya, Sunday, fugue, hmc and Ruan mei whilst not completely relying on them to be viable (not even hating since I use FF often and quite enjoy her but try her without either hmc or ruan Mei and see the dmg fall off). Also if you’re using avg cycles and clears as a means of judging a unit’s viability then JingLiu and Yunli are better than Feixiao currently, if an experienced player were to use Boothill then he can still get lower cost clears that are faster. You could call it a higher skill ceiling with a slightly lower floor but that doesn’t discredit the unit.
The problem with Jing Yuan really is that everyone knows that he just needed a dedicated, direct buff, but the devs kept drip buffing him instead. Whether or not him getting buffed this late being a good thing is contentious, but it's still funny to me how the devs took this long to make this decision that's been obvious for a long time.
This probably sounds like I’m a FF shill but I’ve only been playing along enough to pull her and having her implant fire weakness has helped me clear SO MUCH content I otherwise wouldn’t be able to with fugue/lingsha/gallagher and have rmc with herta and jade so I 100% don’t think FF is any weaker than herta if it weren’t for that implant I wouldn’t have 2 teams.
Returned in 2.7 and wanted to highlight something. Pulled Sunday for JY and recently put The Herta in. Works really well. Specifically Sunday and Bronya help the 2nd erudition carry get more actions to charge The Herta, while benefiting from the 80% Crit Damage which feeds into their crit damage buffing ultimates
I think there's a lot of future utility in The Herta as an SP positive support (you don't need the lightcone) with high damage output.
Sunday my queen❤
Sunday and Fugue in thumbnail together I am summoned
Not really getting how Boothill doesn't get a downvote when he needed an Advance Forward and Fugue as much as Firefly needed HMC
Those toxic bootshill will angry, they're so weird
definitely biased, firefly gets bumped down due to meta shift but boothill doesn't when he's suffering even more in the new aoe meta and competes with almost every other dps for action advance supports
His power in single target fights makes up for it I’d say. From what I’ve seen, Firefly shines when there’s multiple enemies, and she takes a bit to actually break when it’s a big boss. Because boothill can be used with AA units, and isn’t locked in a Ruan Mei, HMC, Gallagher/Lingsha team, it gives him value and flexibility and he still stays as a great single-target dps in his best team(s). It’s also why Jingliu fell off. Yeah she’s a 1.0 DPS but her best team was locked and any other variations would be worse than that specific team.
I wouldn't say he needs fugue as much as firefly needs hmc. honestly, firefly is more tied to fugue than boothill is despite boothill getting value out of her. firefly is really bad without a superbreak enabler, while boothill doesn't rely on at all superbreak and has his own implant meaning he doesn't need fugue to function.
@wren8275 an Implant that's on an Ult which isn't accessible immediately. Firefly doesn't need Fugue that much other than doing more Super Break and Delays but Boothill need Fugue to deal with Mobs that doesn't have Physical Weakness
ive been waiting for this video!!!
Where in this tier list would you place E1 Fugue? It's not necessarily fair but it gives her a bump in usability.
Tier0 100% the extra break efficiency is amazing. Her e2 is even better action advance, and she gets a lot of energy from team breaking
@freezybreezy1001 btw her E1 is 50%extra BE not 100%.
I see Rappa as a volitaile AOE specialist
When she works, she works hard. But ONLY in specific situation but she works in those situations.
If i wanna make another comparison in another game, it would be the spy from TF2. A specialist who works when his enemies are unaware of him, but absolutely useless when they are aware of him
4:23 B-But...but when Tribbie comes out, plus the Reminiscence Trailblazer at E6 and Robin, Jingliu might be able to stay in Very Strong a little longer 😔
Ngl, I feel like Ruan Mei has definitely begun to drop in value so much so that I would put her near the lower end of meta tier. As of right now, the only team comp shes good in is superbreak as every other team comp is usually better with Robin or Sunday. And even then, her massive dmg% buffs have absolutely 0 synergy with superbreak. On top of that, I’ve seen so many runs being down with Fugue and MC instead of RM that she doesn’t seem as required as she used to be when Fugue wasn’t released yet. In the end you’re only going to need 2 teams at most and when one can be supported by Robin and the other by Sunday, the past argument that RM can be used on the second team even if Robin’s better isn’t as valid anymore. Also, from what we know already, summon-based hypercarry teams are going to be the new meta soon, meaning Sunday will probably become the new best support. That also means the second team will either be Robin, Tribbie, or RM and I just don’t think she outcompetes either of them except in superbreak where she has flaws still. She’s still very good, but she’s just become a bit too niche and will likely no longer be the BIS in either of the two teams.
The thing is a dot support might also release and then even that comp will be taken away from her leaving only superbreak for her. But but, that's just how the meta shifting is, I don't think she'll be replaced in her bis teams, atleast not in another couple of years, and as is actually the one place where super break will always be meta so I don't think she'll fall off the meta tier so easily. For me units that perform really well in as and pf are always going to be good. Like therta can always carry your pf team, even after a year. Ruan mei will still be your to when playing sb teams(provided there's no harmony break support that straight up powercreeps her). The only game mode that is the most changing is moc, where the new characters will always shine no matter their kit. And sometimes in that process the older characters will be a huge disadvantage as well. Nevertheless I think units like ruan mei and therta are really future proof given that they excel in one of the 3 end game modes. And you need 2 teams anyways so they can pretty much cover up your 1 spot so you don't have to think much about the other team you wanna run.
Ruan Mei isnt used in break teams for her dmg% buff, shes used bcs of her weakness efficiency buff (which directly buffs superbreak!). She is still the only unit to provide this to your teammates at E0 (Fugue's E1 being the other). So no, her value in superbreak has not gotten lower.
Thank you for mentioning this. People seem to forget that WBE exists from Ruan's skill somehow. That efficiency boost does help against more tedious bars to break. @@Shibby_EUNE
@@SeanTheShinigami Of course, I'm her number 1 fan! Kidding aside, RM's function in a break team is very simple: WBE, Recovery delay and the spd buff. 10% spd may not look like a lot, but it makes a huge difference in a lot of cases, saving you 10 spd (most of the time) or 3 spd substats. Additionally, her recovery delay is what makes sustainless superbreak as dominant as it is. Yes, HMC and Fugue both send the broken enemies to narnia (in the action bar) but her delaying the bosses a 2nd time gets you SOOO much more dmg. I have no idea why people are so eager to overlook all of this.
Is Argenti still that good? 😳
I always hear him talked about in the category of characters like Blade, Seele and Silverwolf as one of the characters that need buffs so I was thinking you'd move him down like around Jingliu in the "has a lot of uses" tier.
Guess thinking Jade took his job permanently was kind of wrong.
He still performs very well in pure fiction and with the shift of other endgame to AoE focus he has gotten off quite well, the new AS bug is very good for him.
He as a hypercarry in the current pf proves to be one of the most high performing pf unit for this cycle, and later on, he might as well be the best tribbie driver for herta comps, even better than jade or serval. He is proving to be a good unit
Please help! The game is forcing me to be an Acheron main!
Anyways, it's nice to see that Acheron is not powercrept yet, despite she is out for close to a year now. This shows that Hoyo can indeed make characters that are not getting powercrept or harder to creep them, since that's what gachas feel like to me, constantly one upping predecessors. Also in my eye she is the most unique dps in the whole game defying her path, and commiting literal screenwide nukes basically every (or every 2nd) turn. Also the only thing I do not agree on the tierlist is that she is just below Aglaea because she is a slightly bit easier to invest in and the only thing that I can see that holds her back is her e0 team is not fully fledged yet, since she would need a 2nd nihility support who more or less does what jiaqiou does and I don't think many people go for e2 on Acheron. Anyways, Aglaea has too many pebbles she can trip over making her "ehhh..." to use, but other than that she looks amazing.
I think you're still honestly underselling preservation march, she actually shines pretty well in current apocalyptic shadow against the ice weak swarm king for both rappa and the herta teams, her frequent follow ups and full aoe ultimate being able to charge therta, do good toughness damage for rappa, and actually do a decent job at sustaining with her freezes combined with her shields and the fact that the bugs mostly attack single targets and marchs shields having taunt. I have a friend with e0s0 therta and they actually managed to get a better score with march than with aventurine. Her uses dont end there either, she's generally best in pure fiction where the opportunity cost of not using hunt march is at its lowest, and the mobs are much easier to block with her shield making her an actual comfortable solo sustain. The aforementioned rappa and therta as well as robin + herta/feixiao teams do well with her, but she also has a niche as an acheron stack generator with fugue skill on march so that each follow up inflicts a debuff. She also plays extremely well into the new grit system as an active attacking sustain that can actually stack a good amount of grit, and has multiple ways of doing so with her followups, ultimate, or ice break.
I believe in a meta actively moving towards defined niches and with enemy hp ballooning higher and higher, I want my sustains to be able to contribute meaningfully towards offense and actually synergize with the team, which is why I would honestly put preservation march above both gepard and bailu, who are just kind of lacking in niches at this point and are far more passive and thus not really contributing to damage.
4:42 at least they are giving them strong buffs in endgame content ;-; also their team was ''6th best'' team in 2.7
Boothill upscaling, you just love to see it.
The absolute state of stellaron hunter characters made me worry for my Fitefly 😢
even as a firefly main who skipped rappa: rappa > firefly > boothill right now. the bias is clear here. The current aoe meta just steps on space cowboy as hard as jade's ult.
luocha > bailu > lynx: lynx just doesn't heal enough, despite being a very good 4* sustain. If bronya's in GVS tier because she's on the standard banner, bailu needs more love. and luocha just needs a small bump up (above seele below clara, maybe) because he's a skill point positive sustain, does AOE damage, runs well off one of the most common relic sets (musketeer) and his buff strip is criminally underrated.
fu xuan has to be a crazy case here. How can she be 'the meta' when there's no meta to put around her? Top of GVS tier, maybe, along with Gallagher who I think you underrated just a little bit.
and the thing that pains me the most to say about my favorite character in the game...silver wolf needs a demotion to 'awkward' tier. the trend of HSR to have shiny new DPS either 1) implant their own element weakness, or 2) just ignore toughness altogether makes using her really niche.
I like this video though, lots of talking points and wiggle room for debate. I really like how knowledgeable you are without being like..over the top with ENTUSIASM AND EXCITEMENT, and you don't use clickbait titles or the same AI voice five other accounts use. Very chill vibe. Looking forward to more of your content!
I genuinely think Therta is the best unit right now. Already very strong with f2p units and judging from the leaks she will get even stronger..
“RM is the queen of break, Robin is the queen of everything else.” Agreed, still an honorary princess and one of the most universally useful buffers, but only until Remembrance fully revives the hypercarry agenda and devalues AOE buffs. Sunday and RMC are already hypercarry enablers in the same style as Bronya and Tingyun so if Hoyo leans all the way into that with later units-one easy example from the dev side would be introducing a Preservation or Abundance unit who gives stronger buffs or sustain if there is only one Destruction/Erudition/Hunt unit on the team-in addition to introducing more unbreakable enemies, I could definitely see RM dropping in later patches.
The purple thing that steals loot in the overworld and demands attack/skill/ult at random within a certain time frame is already a direct example of shifting priorities back onto the Action Advance and Energy Regeneration of old, the exact same way the trashcan enemies who didn’t even have health bars(as someone who owns most of the break meta units, still a dick move) were introduced to shift priorities onto Break Efficiency.
They tried to make you feel like crap for not owning RM then. Now it’s Sunday’s turn.
I would even go as far to place yunli above firefly. She works in every mode and has a ton of teams she can use. I find myself using her almost every rotation on one side just because i know shell clear it. Its a nice safety valve to have if i cant think of a team to counter the endgame or if i dont wanna bother
Firefly also works in every mode and has lots of teams what are you up to? 😭
Fugue makes FF good in PF. Bring himeko and she will literally spam her follow up.
As much as I liked this tier list, the reasons to drop off Firefly are a bit of a strech since Boothill is still unchanged when he has clearly suffered as much as her in the new 3.0 meta scene.
A boothill team is not the same without ruan mei and fugue, it's just not. Every break dps exsist with Ruan mei and Fugue in their context, the fact that Firefly uses Harmony mc is lowkey a boon since Fugue is not mandatory for her but is for Rappa and Boothill.
So I think that Boothill has to drop to the same level as Firefly and Rappa, they all fill in the same niche but with their different cons and pros.
Also even if super break isn't the best flavor of the month anymore I think the general opinion is being waaaaay to harsh with them since they can clear content as easily as other dps while needed at bare minimum less investement and their ceiling has reached new potential with sustainless teams with Fugue Ruan mei and HMC, which are the safes and easier sustainless teams to run thanks to delays (fugue, hmc, boothill, rappa) or straight up having more hp% and self sustain (all break support running hp%/def% orb and firefly being almost immortal).
I wanted to share my opinion because I saw that the totally valid arguements that you used to bump down some units aren't being used universally, which is to be expected as tier list are subjective and biases are normal.
For example even Jing Yuan I think he's being treated a bit unfairly as most of the main dps have that synergistic pairing that makes or breaks them, every dps has that pairing expect for the herta as she just doesn't care about anything and works even in the cheapest teams ever.
But I wanted to write this to maybe make you aware of this with much love and respect since I really like how you make tier lists! :) ♡
Boothill over the other two break dps is absolutely crazy
His own implant and able to work without superbreak, and being the fastest boss killer period in his best team, I think it's justified
@@gustykrakenno? Firefly can also implant way easier. And if there are two enemies on the field and you don't have sunday his clear times fall off a cliff. He is rated way to hughly
@@gustykraken The problem is that the game is starting to take a mt endgames and he is just trash in pf where rappa and ff+himeko destroy him, he is worse than rappa and ff in this AS and he is worse than rappa and ff in this moc 😭😭😭 he can't spread his dmg like feixiao he is the worst break dps rn
putting RMC below HMC is crazy
I think generalism is a much better trait than you give units credit for. My biggest example of this is Argenti. He has a pretty great free-to-play support in Tingyun, and other than that his team can be pretty much anything you want it to be (even though I didn't use Tingyun and still don't because I didn't like her voice until they changed it). His intrinsic Crit Rate buff makes him much easier to build as a dps, as you can be a bit wishywashy with his crit rate, especially if you have teammates that give him a crit rate buff (my Fu Xuan and him have been best buds since he came out, and my sunday has found a home supporting him). I feel like I'd probably put him above Jade, as he doesn't require any particular kind of teammate (though he does shine with energy regen units, but he does regenerate his own energy pretty fast from his talent and traces based around regenerating energy) because even though some of Jade's best units are free-to-play (some as in Herta), right now her role in the meta is as a support for The Herta, a limited dps. This might just be me enjoying my favorite units a bit too much though.
Saying that Topaz's personal damage is "much higher" than Hunt March is a truly baffling take.
its a fact, march damage is bigger because its backloaded on her eba while topaz damage is spread throughout her high attack frequency thats why everyone thinks march is better, but in totality topaz will have the edge especially when numby gets advanced by allies fuas (aventurine, ratio, topaz herself)
and also buff wise e0 topaz's 50% fua vulnerability is better than the 10% spd and 60% cdmg that e6 march offers
Ah yes the topaz vs march debate still going while moze lurking in the corner
@@dontuknowhowsweetittastes No everyone thinks March is better because she is. I hate this frankly wrong idea that Topaz attacks more than March and therefore does more damage. I broke it down in my excel using Swoart Gaming's video for Topaz and Zetto Genshin's video for March, same team for both and same MOC.
The amount of motion value damage Topaz did in the first wave for 2.7 was 1600 compared to March's 3120. Topaz hit the enemy a total of 9 times compared to March's 13 TIMES. Hell even prydwen and their somewhat flawed damage graphs show March doing more damage than Topaz.
The only thing keeping Topaz relevant is that she gives a debuff for Dr. Ratio which makes her better than March for him (unless lightning weak then Moze is better). For a limited 5* her performance is mediocre and has better cheaper options in her replacements or better buffers.
@@irena4929 Moze is great but still doesn't have a perfect team because Robin goes afk in her ultimate so he loses out on an entire character to proc his damage. He is kind of hard to math out because of all his different crit builds (ATK/ERR Rope, Duran/Vonwaq/Lushaka, Eagle/Diver).
@@Castona I find it funny its always topaz and march debate whos top 1-2 while everyone agree moze comfortably sitting at top 3 with 0 debate lol
Prydwen aint holding a candle to this level of insight
Gallagher is meta, skill point and energy battery is insane you can slap robin in every team because of him.
i'm a fuxuan believer for the upcoming hp scaling units since she increases everybody's hp
there is so many wrong things in this tierlist. putting aventurine and any sustain in highest tier disqualifies you from doing a meta tierlist
Fu xuan in “The Meta" tier being only viable in mono quantum teams cuz Gallagher is better than her in any other comps XD.
Also I find it hard to think about the aoe meta direction in terms of the bigger picture because apparently hoyo has decided that even moc or apocalyptic shadow can be turned into full aoe shill fights, but on the flipside I cannot possibly foresee a "single target pure fiction". This just makes evaluating single target carries against aoe carries awkward because even if the meta is trying to shill single target units, the aoe carries will always excel in pure fiction regardless, and unfortunately I think that does tip the scales in favor of aoe units.
Like I really wanna defend my boy luka, and if this were around feixiao's release I would have called you crazy for putting him that low, but everything is just so aoe nowadays and I can't justify him much anymore. I do think he will shine once again when the meta stops shilling aoe and he actually get to fight favorable bosses again, but overall its just not looking that good for him
I agree with most of this but would make a few changes at least in the meta tier
Id put pretty much all Break Carries/Enablers together atm in the order of RM>Fugue>HMC>Rappa=Firefly=Boothill, I love Boothill and do think he has the raw potential to preform better (mainly as his damage is I still think the height ST damage in the game per turn) but all 3 break carries pretty much excel in Aoe (Rappa), Blast (Firefly), and Single Target (Boothill) So I don't think they really should be that separate only with one being higher or lower based on what content is currently being favored to. Additionally even though its a premium option, putting Fugues buff on Lingsha or Gallagher helps mitigate Rappa's lack of implant significantly (also helps Boothill in AoE content a bit) as she doesn't get any value from the partial colorless as she already has that so by doing that it enables her to be substantially more flexible.
And the one other change is putting Agleea around Yunli level, I think she is stronger but just like Jing Yuan Sunday Vs No Sunday is such a big difference an unlike break who at least has 2 SB enablers now nobody can truly replicate what sunday does for summons yet
Could you go through the V3/V4 (when it comes out) Mydei and Tribbie buffs?
I'd say Clara is a bit underrated, she is still very viable in all gamemodes (except AS maybe)
i think the criteria section was organised confusingly since its mixing an explanation of itself into it
what are you judging them on?
-how useful they are (team versatility and damage potential?)
-the cost to make them useful (teammates, eidolons, signatures)
what assumptions are you making?
-the individual character is on your account
-you probably have to pull for any limited items needed to make them useful
therefore, characters who are universal and cheap to use will rank highly on this list
also i dont think i quite get the point of the example with bronya. you say that bronya is valuable even if sunday exists but then follow by saying if a character's competition is cheap and outclasses the character, the character will suffer. it feels like youre saying characters have their own value separate from the existence of other characters while also saying that their value will be lowered if better options exist. since you are judging characters based on how much use you can get out of them if you own them, having their value lowered because another character you might not own exists feels off
People should stop pulling sparkle of she getting rerun and pull for both tribbie and Sunday. Sparkle value has been dropped to 0 siince the introduction of Sunday and Tribbie😂
Isn't E6 Hunt 7th better than Topaz? she is better in faster clears and is like 1% better overall
Why does a cost of a unit aka pulls do not matter? I think it's really important to know what that unit will get you compared to a free one, cuz at the end of the day if it costs me 90 pulls to get a unit that will help me get ~80 jades more that a free one then is it worth it?
Ah I just dont know what to get THerta lc or Jade. I have all other erudition units built and got 2 milky ways already. The +1 skill point must be so good godanmit
The game can pry my E2 DHIL out of my cold dead hands. I will keep enjoying my Sunday/Fugue DHIL team. Just a response to you moving him down, not saying you are wrong(i know how the comment section on TH-cam works).
-I just don't think Boothill will be there for long with AOE meta, sadly he will fall of a bit (below Firefly)
-Herta is pretty chill in her nice and comfy AoE ice weak environment but not above Sunday and Ruan Mei
-Rappa should be below Fugue she is an AoE breaker after all (that really likes Fugue)
-Aglea is really a mistery with her high speed and consistent attacks but i don't know about how to fix her energy issues (without e1)
-Jingliu can be used again with ice weak content so maybe above BlackSwan?
-Firefly can be under Fugue as well
Wildly under valuing fugue /Lingsha. Ez clears no break dps required.
Who was ur channel mascot before Boothill?
I swear I recognize that last song in the video but I can't quite place it. Is it from an older FE game?
its chapter 2 theme in fe4, so you were on the right track!
Is RMC better than Sparkle with The Herta?
I just end watching when i saw Lynx over Bailu...
here are my thoughts
Therta is not the 2nd best unit people are overestimating her cause of current moc buff is she great? Yes but not too this extent
like if i have to make a dps tierlist this is what it would be imo
No.1 Feixiao
No.2 Aglaea (As long as you have sunday)
No.3 Therta
also i don't think Acheron/Boothill/fugue/hmc/rappa/Yunli/fuxuan/Firefly should be in "The meta" but rather "Generally very strong" just because of how better the other units are
from "Generally very strong" I think put Serval in "Has a lot of use" because of Therta and Tribbie she will have her use but she is basically only good in 1 team and there she still has her replacement (Argenti if u have him even if he is limited 5 star)
from "Has a lot of use" i would say you can bump down SW to maybe beside Welt she is just not good man same with seele bump her a tier down because of hp inflation she will continue to become worse and worse more compared to any other unit in-game just because of how her machines works
aside that I would suggest to have 1 more tier between "The meta" "Generally very strong" like i would like to change some units tier from "Generally very strong" but putting them in above or below in the tiers will be wrong like JQ he is in the top of the tier sure but in the same tier you also have ratio or the units i mentioned above going from "The meta" to that new tier and stuff
W fire emblem music 🗣️🗣️
Honestly break will get buffed and nerfed depending on what element the shiny new 5 star is, same with dot but to a lesser degree
acheron is unplayable without jiaoqiu so i dont get why she is placed higher than firefly or rappa
yeah, weird.
Don't know if it is just me, but i can clear end game with acheron with RMC, fugue and gallagher. but i for sure want to summon for him. I saved all my jades for him since i last summoned on fugue and sunday.
@hugocognie1784but acheron is ass without jiaoqiu or even her signature 😭😭 if we’re talking about e0s0 shes actually unplayable
She's not really unplayable, at the very least she will be a t1 character @@FLOPtropica1989
this makes no sense. firefly and rappa are also straight up unplayable without hmc/fugue.
“hmc is free!!” rmc exists now so theres competition.
in general, they demand at least 2 other five star supports (RM NEEDS to be there)
and greatly benefit from having lingsha on the team. (another 5 star)
acheron ONLY wants jiaoqiu, then can run gallagher + pela as final 2 slots, at e0s1. It’s still 3 cost, guys. average break team is 3+ cost, average acheron team is 2-3 cost.
Wish more tier lists were made with character names and not icons haha
good list but either pull up jq or bump hmc down man fugue and rmc completely overshadow hmc in their only niche whereas jiaoqui is still the best for acheron i cant imagine using acheron without jq tbh move the blind man up
Tbh i would move rappa lower, the reason Why is simple, her weakness CANT be undone yet, out of all break dps she the only one who NEED her element weakness on enemy
Yeah rappa without fugue isn’t that good
To be fair, at e0s0 ff > boothiil
Even more if you are casual player, dentge, just pick ff all day. Boothill need brain to shine
how tf lynx above bailu
Honestly i think rappa is stronger than firefly and boothill, she seems to be the most strongest break character
nah man the bh bias is crazy and I guess slandering ff is cool nowadays
Rappa should be at least a tier lower
Qinque move up when!!!
Lingsha is way better than huohuo…
No way lingsha below huohuo
I generally agree with the tier you placed units in, but have big disagreements on where they are within the tiers
Boothill being above Fugue, HMC, and FIREFLY is crazy to me hahaha
For my account Firefly has felt like the strongest DPS unit right after Therta (above Acheron and Feixiao IMO) across the span of content -
I think the big 3 harmony trio is arguable in which order you put them in, but I think they are the three best units in the game.
I would favor a format with more tiers to allow for more nuance.
hiii 😊
Bh is literally soo much worse than rappa and ff. He has like a 2 percent usage rate in moc and 1.4 percent in apoc shadow, don’t even talk about pf. Still even after having soo less usage rate, he still takes more average cycle in moc compared to rappa or ff. Average bh main is barely clearing apoc shadow while ff or rappa mains are easily clearing apoc shadow. And ff and rappa can actually easily clear pf 40. Another delusional bh user😔
Boothills usage rate is due to him having a low summon rate, people that actually care about low cycle clears and research it in the actual communities that's NOT prydwn know that BH>>>FF for MoC and AS. I know FF glazers will never wanna leave the waifu but she isn't even a top 5 damage dealing unit rn
@@Malvekazar767 are you dumb or something ? Bh and Ff literally have the same lowest cost for 0 cycle in every moc after fugue release (except svarog as ff can 3 cost while bh cannot). Only 2 percent players use him and still his average cycle for moc clear is much worse than rappa or ff . His average score is even lower than Acheron, yunli and many many others. Him having 2 percent usage rate means that people who use him have invested highly in him still he is soo bad. Average bh main is clearing apoc shadow with 3351 points compared to 3439 of ff. Average bh main takes 8.68 cycles to clear moc while an average ff takes 8.11. I suppose you don’t even want to talk about pf. He is worse than all his competitors in all 3 modes💀, Might as well rename him bullshit instead of boothill .
@@Malvekazar767 ya his summon rate is low cause no one wants to waste pulls on bh when ff and rappa are much better. Let’s wate for 3.X Moc’s then his average cycle will be straight up 10+
@@Malvekazar767 his apoc average score is 3358 while ff has 3439. His average moc clear is 8.68 cycles while ff has 8.11. I suppose You don’t want to talk about pf. You can cope all you want , that won’t make bh better
@@Malvekazar767 Crazy cope
Would Blade be good for Mydei?
blade doesn’t help mydei at all, would actually hurt him since it’d be removing a support for his team
I think Mydei would prefer support units (like Sunday and Tribbie) more because that's what leakers play him with.
Blade and Mydei are both hypercarry units so no
No mydei kills blade in any scenario.
Even at E6S1 blade losse againt a mydei E0S1 💀
M7>Topaz
Fu xuan?
The tier list is good, but in my opinion all break dps tier is: Rappa (bcs the next meta gonna be for Erudition unit, like Nikador for example), then Firefly and in the end Boothill. And i am pretty sure even Acheron is too high for her dmg output rn, i would put her behind Firefly and ahead of Boothill.
Imo acheron is so overrated i would easily place her before the break dps’ at e0s0 she’s not worth getting imo especially since she’s so reliant on a mid unit like jiaoqiu
The only 2 characters that i dont agree are bh and fuxuan.
Bh is really good as a boss killer but he is the worst break dps, rappa and firefly are just so broken and they both can clear pf something thar bh cant do at all, not only that even as a single target dps he is worst that a feixiao by a lot, and finally even for the break arquetipe he is not that much of a priority unlike fugue and hmc.
The placement should be ruan>fugue>hmc>ff=rappa>bh.
Over all there is no reason to pull bh becuase there are so many opcions better than him.
And fuxuan is good but she has a lot of problems and you really dont need her at all. Fr i have her and i dont use her at all because galleger is so good not only in break but in general is just better.
Her biggest problem is that she has no arquetipe or team that really want her at all and also there are so much more enemies that damage all your team that is more hard to play her because she will get one shoted if you dont invest in her at all.
Over all she does her job but not that good anymore and also aventurine, lingsha and galleger are just so much better than her thar she just is not worth pulling or using at all. ( not gonna lie just put her ass down next to linx and luocha )
Is a good list but those 2 does not deserve those placement at all 😅
I really think Bhil over FF is absolute madness, FF is better in 90% of cenarios in my humble opinion, a lot more gameplay flexible even if she needs two of RM, HMC and Fugue. The fact Bhil does so poorly on AOE content is a huge turn off for me, that spent 15 dollars on 3 passes and will not spend more than 5 a month. The rest is really reasonable tho, i like your explanations and presentation
jiaoqiu, hunt march and bronya being rated lower than characters like fu xuan, firefly and yunli is a crazy bad take
seele is nowhere near as bad as jingliu
sampo+bs is better than kafka+bs more often than not
lynx is a terrible sustain. gepard, bailu and m7 are all better
dan heng is better than sushang
i kind of agree with the list, but in terms of the "meta" placement i'd rank them like this:
1) Robin
2) Sunday
3) Lingsha
4) The Herta
5) Fugue
6) Ruan Mei
7) Huohuo (from this patch onwards)
8) Aventurine
9) Jiaoqiu
10) Feixiao
@@femto9838 you’re under rating rm soo much, all 3 break DPS just straight up need her. She can be used on any team in the entire game. There is a reason why she always have the highest usage rate in every mode.
Lingsha glaze is crazy.
@ If im not playing break it's easier for me to replace Ruan Mei with Robin in 90% of scenarios even in DoT. Robin is also way better in dual dps teams. It's not like Ruan Mei is bad, she's extremely good, but Robin is just better. RM is a jack of all trades master of none and she'll start losing value sooner than later with more dedicated supports for specific archetypes, like Fugue and Sunday.
@ she's straight up the best abundance character in the game. Break support, extremely high dmg for an abundance character, aoe cleanse, aoe heal, summon, debuff enemies with her LC, procs stacks for herta, works in both break and follow up teams, can even be played as a break dps. She does way too much even outside her role but sure bro im glazing lmao
@@femto9838 out of like 6 meta dps, 3 are break. That alone put rm really high. She’s really good for hp scalers like blade or mydei. She’s not much worse than robin in other comps. She has a 87 percent usage rate in moc while robin has 60.
I definitely think seele should move up. She’s still competitive even now and is able to take advantage of the upcoming AoE meta as she really benefits from her passive. Shes no where near jinglu tier or DHIL tier in my opinion. She also takes grant advantage of RMCs true dmg since it doesn’t kill steal like how robins ult dmg does.
let it go bro :(
There are bunch of salty fireflop glazer in here lmao 😂😂😂
Even as boothill glazer rappa>boothill>fireflop
Lingsha and huohuo are my enemy #1 for being so goddamn broken and power creeping luocha and Gallagher. I cannot wait to get a new healer that’s actually a pleasant character with a good design
Same here, i want another sustain with actcual good writing like Aventurine.
Besides Lingsha's mid design she also had 0 writing.
@ exactlyyyyyy
She’s just like there, she could’ve easily been an npc
it's not like luocha or gallagher or aventurine were pleasant characters in terms of personality. not pleasant in terms of design either, but that's subjective. you're just biased, that's it
@@user-mg4rc1qw6w what the fuck are you talking about literally all of them are much better characters, design, personality, storyline, writing, bar for bar better than some perfume woman with rosacea