Kai , Thank you so much for this comparison it's very good to know. And of course thank you for all the amazing music you keep feeding us over the years !
having already a bunch of tools on iPad. I guess the new m3 architecture of 3 nanometer using different kind of voltage output, less power consumption almost the same performance. It is still a pretty new release. If you hear some crackle just increase the buffer size, it is a very common issue when the project grows more complex. M1, M2 or M3 are still some incredible powerful machines. Happy producing!
Interesting and strange! Do the macs all have all the same versions of software? OS and Ableton? Also, check under system-settings, and battery that it is set to "High Power" when running on battery. If you have the power disconnected, it perhaps revert to lower power mode. Not exactly 100% sure how that works. Check in activity monitor and see that nothing else is running that is taking up resources. For example file-indexing is a usual culprit when setting up a new mac.
It's really odd! In James Zhan's M1, M2 and M3 testing it always concludes that more performance cores = better performance in Live. Could it be anything to do with the increase in graphics power on the 16 core? Did you manage to replicate this behaviour in any other DAW like Logic or Bigwig? Have you tried Live 12 beta? It's a bit surprising that 12 M3 performance cores only perform 1/3 better than 8 performance cores of the M1. I would have expected M3 to perform 1/3 better than M2 with no increase in core count.
There is another test here on youtube from a guy called @JamesZhan where he did the same test but included the M1 Pro. So he used M1 Pro, M2 Pro and M3 Pro for testing. Cubase and Reaper nailed it ! Crazy enough that apple's Logic did not even use the efficiency cores that much, just a tiny bit. So the outcome was pretty much the same as yours. Ableton did also fully used the performance cores only and crackeld along...
@@kaitracid3168 True, but it boils down to the same issue that Live doesn't use the efficiency cores as much as it should. Off course it's sad that the M3 is no stronger than the other ones.
@@remmyrambrandt9497 The M3Max is the best CPU you can buy at the moment in a Apple Mac Book. Nothing comes even close when it comes to Audio Production.
@@kaitracid3168 Yet your video states "Don't buy the new 16 core Apple M3 Max before watching for Music Production in Ableton." What is it what you want to tell us then if everything is allright ?
Thanks for the very interesting perspective! But what about the fan noise on the 14 inch version! They say it gets very loud. Whats your opinion on that, Kai? Thanks for your help! Greetings, Bernd
I myself prefer 14 inch MacBooks, for me it is the perfect size that you can unpack on the plane or train to work with. My old M1pro was always very quiet and when I tested the 14-core and 16-core 14" M3Max, I had the feeling that the 14-core would be quieter. I can't say how this affects the 16" Mac Book because I haven't tested it.
Were you using 14 inch or 16 inch M3 Max? I have seen some videos talking about how the 14 inch M3 Max gets to hot because of the small size and starts to perform worse. From the looks from here it looks like you 16 core M3 Max is 14 inch and the 14 core is 16 inch, if so I think the problem is that the 16 core is 14 inch and should be 16 inch to really use it's full powers
@@kaitracid3168 I think that is why the 16 core is under performing. The 16 inch 14 core is cooler and don't overheat and can take more advance of it's power. There is some videos on youtube about it, I can try and find one an post it. How often does the fan turn on and is it loud? I myself am stuck between buying an M1 Max or the M3 Max and I have been hearing that the fan on the M3 turns on more the M1
i have a question....when i'm trying to test the capapilities of some laptops, does it make sense to just make a small project with like 8 different instances of omnisphere (bass, bells, lead, pad and 2 layers each) and then copy these instances as often as the particular machine can handle it? ....right now i'm over 500 instances before i get any dropouts (which is mindblowing to me), but i'm not sure if this test really gives me an approximately impression of the capapilities or if this test is super flawed and unnecessary because there are only 8 different omnisphere patches and 4 different midi patterns, copied over and over again .....i would be very thankful for your insights
For FL Studio is best M3, for Logic is best M1, for Ableton, Reaper M2. It's differet but in same time plus-minus it's same. If you already have M1 there are no needs to invest in more.
they say, in ableton daw doesn't use all cores for some reason. only productive cores, but no efficient one. So if you are watching performance gain in new laptop, pay attention on productive core count
Hi bro! 😊 Then my simple question is: do you recommend the M3 to me when I have an iMac late 2012 using old synths, vst & fxs on OS Mojave still using 32bits? 😎 Greetz, Fredddie
@@kaitracid3168 Thinking about getting a Mac studio! Thing is I will "only" be using it for making music nothing else! Would it make any sence to go for a M2 Mac studio Max instead of the now cheaper M1 Mac studio Max (both having 32gb ram and 512ssd) or shoudl I wait for the M3 to come out around summertime (rumors) great video Kai and great that you share because many music producers do not have al the money in the world :-) Thanks again :-)
@@thomasdietz579the m3 studios will go through the roof re: prices. I’ve been looking too and I am sort of thinking that M2 Ultra would be the way to go with the studio before the prices goes ip
@@wakinglife7065 You think the will be more exspensiv ?So far the M1 studio and the M2 studio hit the market at the same price when released! I am "only" going to use it for audio production so I really have no need for the Ultra and even the MAX is overkill for Audio production :-)
@@thomasdietz579 me too- music production. I use Apollo and UAD plugins and boy does it chew up the DSP. I have heard that with max 3 that people have been able to use more plugins - distressor but I am still researching the best solution. If I had a billion dollars and lots of space - I would go with a Mac Pro M2 Ultra and add a couple of uad pci cards - then it’ll be overkill in all the right ways 😅. Good luck on finding your solutions. I’m still not sure what’s the best way forward. ATM I have a mini mac M2 pro and it great but not enough ports and power though for what I do and getting into with video. I can load a few uad plugins before it stops working. Just got the calidigit t4 (Mac hub icymi) today so see if that helps and I’ll have to finally get a uad satellite octa to increase DSP and I have a Lacie bigdock 2 plus monitor plus Apollo and before the calidigit I was out of ports. I also use MPC and have midi controllers so it’s just crazy. So many things to compensate. However it’s quiet as a dove. I also have a M2 MacBook Pro with a whole 2 ports including one for charging. The Mac Pro is absurdly expensive- so heavy and big. But has I think 8 t4 ports and a tonne of pci e space. Dreams cost nothing I suppose
I had seen your video when it first came out and now I'm about to buy one of them either 16 core or 14 core and this video came to my mind. Is there any news related to this? And which website do you use for that benchmark score?
ich denke das Ableton probleme hat mit Multicore, sieht man ja auch bei 9.7 und 11. Die 9.7 läuft stabil und 11 macht stress mit CPU last. Ableton ist schlecht programmiert, hat ja auch fast drei Jahre bei der 11 gedauert das Novation V-Station endlich die GUI richtig angezeigt wird.
@@kaitracid3168 tja gute Frage, liegt es vielleicht an der CPU, oder mehr an Ableton mir mehr als 14 Kerne klar zu kommen. Und da die die Software ja auf das neue System programmiert werden musste, denke ich das es an Ableton liegt. Finde es eh Mist das es nur noch Mac mit der Handy CPU gibt.
@@kaitracid3168 und dann finde ich es schon etwas komisch das man soviel Spuren benötigt, wenn man bedenkt das vor 20 Jahren man mit max 48 Spuren ausgekommen ist. Manche schaffen es heute noch mit weniger ist mehr.
i think it´s becauseyouu tried the 14 inch version. It throttles easily on this one. With the m3 MAX chips you should always use the 16" version, if you would like to use the full power of the m3 max chip. I would try it again with de 16"
In fact, it appears Ableton currently cannot use the efficiency cores at all, only the performance cores. So if the chip has more efficiency cores then Ableton may not run as well. This could be the answer?
Hi Kai, auf der deutschen gearnews Seite gibt es dazu einen Artikel mit dem Titel "Apple M1 Pro schlägt M3 Pro bei Ableton, Logic und Pro Tools!" ... Vielleicht hilft dir das weiter Viele Grüße
Ja der M3 Pro ist auch schlechter wie der M3 Max denn der hat nur 5 bzw 6 Performance Cores and der M3 Max hat 10 bzw. 12 performance Cores. Also die doppelte Leistung. Und Ableton Live bevorzugt diese.
It's because Ableton doesn't use the Efficiency cores for computing. Only the high performance cores. So if there are more Performances core on the 14 core, Ableton would handle itself better. Cubase for example, uses ALL cores. The High Performance AND Efficiency cores, so the isssue you are encountering is an Ableton issue. Btw only Cubase and Reaper use all cores. Not even Logic lol
I've got the 14 core m3 max 16 inch and I couldn't be happier with it! it's a beast
Now this is one of the best videos on this. No financial opinions, just cold hard facts. Thanks
Kai , Thank you so much for this comparison it's very good to know. And of course thank you for all the amazing music you keep feeding us over the years !
having already a bunch of tools on iPad. I guess the new m3 architecture of 3 nanometer using different kind of voltage output, less power consumption almost the same performance. It is still a pretty new release. If you hear some crackle just increase the buffer size, it is a very common issue when the project grows more complex. M1, M2 or M3 are still some incredible powerful machines. Happy producing!
Interesting and strange! Do the macs all have all the same versions of software? OS and Ableton? Also, check under system-settings, and battery that it is set to "High Power" when running on battery. If you have the power disconnected, it perhaps revert to lower power mode. Not exactly 100% sure how that works. Check in activity monitor and see that nothing else is running that is taking up resources. For example file-indexing is a usual culprit when setting up a new mac.
Interesting! I also read somewhere that the multicore option in Diva is not optimized for Diva. Thanks for this :-)
It's really odd! In James Zhan's M1, M2 and M3 testing it always concludes that more performance cores = better performance in Live. Could it be anything to do with the increase in graphics power on the 16 core? Did you manage to replicate this behaviour in any other DAW like Logic or Bigwig? Have you tried Live 12 beta? It's a bit surprising that 12 M3 performance cores only perform 1/3 better than 8 performance cores of the M1. I would have expected M3 to perform 1/3 better than M2 with no increase in core count.
There is another test here on youtube from a guy called @JamesZhan where he did the same test but included the M1 Pro. So he used M1 Pro, M2 Pro and M3 Pro for testing. Cubase and Reaper nailed it ! Crazy enough that apple's Logic did not even use the efficiency cores that much, just a tiny bit. So the outcome was pretty much the same as yours. Ableton did also fully used the performance cores only and crackeld along...
There is a big difference between the Max with 12 performance cores and the Pro with only 6 performance cores.
@@kaitracid3168 True, but it boils down to the same issue that Live doesn't use the efficiency cores as much as it should. Off course it's sad that the M3 is no stronger than the other ones.
@@remmyrambrandt9497 The M3Max is the best CPU you can buy at the moment in a Apple Mac Book. Nothing comes even close when it comes to Audio Production.
@@kaitracid3168 Yet your video states "Don't buy the new 16 core Apple M3 Max before watching for Music Production in Ableton." What is it what you want to tell us then if everything is allright ?
Nice to see you again Mr. Macdonald 😉
Thanks for the very interesting perspective! But what about the fan noise on the 14 inch version! They say it gets very loud. Whats your opinion on that, Kai? Thanks for your help! Greetings, Bernd
the 14inch may run hotter due to the smaller fans - thermal throtteling may cause performance loss..
I myself prefer 14 inch MacBooks, for me it is the perfect size that you can unpack on the plane or train to work with. My old M1pro was always very quiet and when I tested the 14-core and 16-core 14" M3Max, I had the feeling that the 14-core would be quieter. I can't say how this affects the 16" Mac Book because I haven't tested it.
good point. i think ill also go with the 14 inch - thanks for you anserwr, kai!@@kaitracid3168
Just to give a little more context what are your buffer sizes and Diva quality settings?
what M3 did you end up keeping?
Were you using 14 inch or 16 inch M3 Max? I have seen some videos talking about how the 14 inch M3 Max gets to hot because of the small size and starts to perform worse. From the looks from here it looks like you 16 core M3 Max is 14 inch and the 14 core is 16 inch, if so I think the problem is that the 16 core is 14 inch and should be 16 inch to really use it's full powers
14 inch.
@@kaitracid3168 I think that is why the 16 core is under performing. The 16 inch 14 core is cooler and don't overheat and can take more advance of it's power. There is some videos on youtube about it, I can try and find one an post it.
How often does the fan turn on and is it loud? I myself am stuck between buying an M1 Max or the M3 Max and I have been hearing that the fan on the M3 turns on more the M1
@@kaitracid3168 Here is the video where they talk about 14 inch vs 16 inch th-cam.com/video/E9IJ7nOAZyM/w-d-xo.html
@@LetLifeLive517 what did you buy? I just ordered the m3 max 16 core. I hope it does not have to much issues
i have a question....when i'm trying to test the capapilities of some laptops, does it make sense to just make a small project with like 8 different instances of omnisphere (bass, bells, lead, pad and 2 layers each) and then copy these instances as often as the particular machine can handle it? ....right now i'm over 500 instances before i get any dropouts (which is mindblowing to me), but i'm not sure if this test really gives me an approximately impression of the capapilities or if this test is super flawed and unnecessary because there are only 8 different omnisphere patches and 4 different midi patterns, copied over and over again .....i would be very thankful for your insights
That's a good question. I think the best senario is to use a real project of yours. But then no one else can recreate the test on their computer.
@@kaitracid3168 that's exactly my thought.....i want to make a scenario that everyone with omnisphere can recreate
Please let me know the unified memory amount of your M3 laptops.
For FL Studio is best M3, for Logic is best M1, for Ableton, Reaper M2. It's differet but in same time plus-minus it's same. If you already have M1 there are no needs to invest in more.
My new M3max got so much more power. There is a big difference between the Max with 12 power cores and the Pro with only 6 power cores.
they say, in ableton daw doesn't use all cores for some reason. only productive cores, but no efficient one.
So if you are watching performance gain in new laptop, pay attention on productive core count
how many 303s does one need? :D
Minimum 10 I would say :-). ha ha ha ha I am so happy that the one I am working with still works perfect.
303
it's about performance cores and efficiency cores... count those and you see why - don't count the total of cores
Hi bro! 😊
Then my simple question is: do you recommend the M3 to me when I have an iMac late 2012 using old synths, vst & fxs on OS Mojave still using 32bits? 😎
Greetz,
Fredddie
What about an M1pro? I think that would be a great upgrade and it should be cheaper
@@kaitracid3168 Thinking about getting a Mac studio! Thing is I will "only" be using it for making music nothing else! Would it make any sence to go for a M2 Mac studio Max instead of the now cheaper M1 Mac studio Max (both having 32gb ram and 512ssd) or shoudl I wait for the M3 to come out around summertime (rumors) great video Kai and great that you share because many music producers do not have al the money in the world :-) Thanks again :-)
@@thomasdietz579the m3 studios will go through the roof re: prices. I’ve been looking too and I am sort of thinking that M2 Ultra would be the way to go with the studio before the prices goes ip
@@wakinglife7065 You think the will be more exspensiv ?So far the M1 studio and the M2 studio hit the market at the same price when released! I am "only" going to use it for audio production so I really have no need for the Ultra and even the MAX is overkill for Audio production :-)
@@thomasdietz579 me too- music production. I use Apollo and UAD plugins and boy does it chew up the DSP. I have heard that with max 3 that people have been able to use more plugins - distressor but I am still researching the best solution. If I had a billion dollars and lots of space - I would go with a Mac Pro M2 Ultra and add a couple of uad pci cards - then it’ll be overkill in all the right ways 😅. Good luck on finding your solutions. I’m still not sure what’s the best way forward. ATM I have a mini mac M2 pro and it great but not enough ports and power though for what I do and getting into with video. I can load a few uad plugins before it stops working. Just got the calidigit t4 (Mac hub icymi) today so see if that helps and I’ll have to finally get a uad satellite octa to increase DSP and I have a Lacie bigdock 2 plus monitor plus Apollo and before the calidigit I was out of ports. I also use MPC and have midi controllers so it’s just crazy. So many things to compensate. However it’s quiet as a dove. I also have a M2 MacBook Pro with a whole 2 ports including one for charging. The Mac Pro is absurdly expensive- so heavy and big. But has I think 8 t4 ports and a tonne of pci e space. Dreams cost nothing I suppose
Maybe it's because the 16 core is getting hotter with the 2 additional cores and is throttling the core speed or can't boost it as much.
YES
It’s a software optimization for 16 cores!
I had seen your video when it first came out and now I'm about to buy one of them either 16 core or 14 core and this video came to my mind. Is there any news related to this? And which website do you use for that benchmark score?
geekbench browser i guess hardly saw
Its A software problem, even ableton 12 dont use efficence cores, Logic, Cubase and Reaper dont have this issue.
ich denke das Ableton probleme hat mit Multicore, sieht man ja auch bei 9.7 und 11. Die 9.7 läuft stabil und 11 macht stress mit CPU last. Ableton ist schlecht programmiert, hat ja auch fast drei Jahre bei der 11 gedauert das Novation V-Station endlich die GUI richtig angezeigt wird.
Ja, nur warum schafft dann die CPU mit 16 Kernen weniger spuren wie die CPU mit 14 Kernen?
@@kaitracid3168 tja gute Frage, liegt es vielleicht an der CPU, oder mehr an Ableton mir mehr als 14 Kerne klar zu kommen. Und da die die Software ja auf das neue System programmiert werden musste, denke ich das es an Ableton liegt. Finde es eh Mist das es nur noch Mac mit der Handy CPU gibt.
@@kaitracid3168 und dann finde ich es schon etwas komisch das man soviel Spuren benötigt, wenn man bedenkt das vor 20 Jahren man mit max 48 Spuren ausgekommen ist. Manche schaffen es heute noch mit weniger ist mehr.
hallo Kai mal den Taskmanger öffnen um zu sehen ob alle Cors auch genutzt werden.
i think it´s becauseyouu tried the 14 inch version. It throttles easily on this one. With the m3 MAX chips you should always use the 16" version, if you would like to use the full power of the m3 max chip. I would try it again with de 16"
Ableton can’t use the efficiency cores effectively I believe
In fact, it appears Ableton currently cannot use the efficiency cores at all, only the performance cores. So if the chip has more efficiency cores then Ableton may not run as well. This could be the answer?
16-core CPU with 12 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores
14-core CPU with 10 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores
@@kaitracid3168 lol. Who the hell knows then!
Live 10 does use e cores. On M1 and i9. No problem for production, mixing and mastering - over 300 tracks with different plugins etc
Probably the issue lies with Ableton.
could be.
yes ableton does not use the efficiency cores...@@kaitracid3168
Hi Kai,
auf der deutschen gearnews Seite gibt es dazu einen Artikel mit dem Titel "Apple M1 Pro schlägt M3 Pro bei Ableton, Logic und Pro Tools!" ...
Vielleicht hilft dir das weiter
Viele Grüße
Ja der M3 Pro ist auch schlechter wie der M3 Max denn der hat nur 5 bzw 6 Performance Cores and der M3 Max hat 10 bzw. 12 performance Cores. Also die doppelte Leistung. Und Ableton Live bevorzugt diese.
Looks like software bug
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It's because Ableton doesn't use the Efficiency cores for computing. Only the high performance cores. So if there are more Performances core on the 14 core, Ableton would handle itself better. Cubase for example, uses ALL cores. The High Performance AND Efficiency cores, so the isssue you are encountering is an Ableton issue. Btw only Cubase and Reaper use all cores. Not even Logic lol
there are more performance cores on the 16-core m3max than on the 14-core m3max, so your statement holds no value to this discussion.
Ableton only uses performance cores. Trash
Hilarious!
This video is the opposite of informative
👍