How to Route your Subwoofers from a Matrix
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
- I recently received a question about how to setup a Matrix fed Subwoofer on the X32 (and M32) consoles. This video walks through the steps needed to do this properly and covers a few additional items to consider in the process.
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i love running my system this way, im also sending high mid to a linked matrix. From there i am using the matrix eq as a crossover
Nicely done. That is a good use of the onboard features.
Helped a Ton!
Thanks. I’m glad you found it helpful.
Perfeita explicação, apesar de eu não falar inglês entendi perfeitamente, seu vídeo me ajudou muito..
Parabéns.
If Google Translate worked well, I believe you were thankful for this video. I'm glad it was helpful and thanks for the encouraging comment.
@@AllamHouse sim, me ajudou e já estou colocando em prática em minhas passagens de som.
Muito obrigado.
Stumbled across your video and love the content. We have a situation I'm hoping you can help with - Situation: We have relocated our X32 to a new space, and we are trying to eliminate equipment in our rigs. Previously we had been running 2x24" subwoofer cabinets w/ amplifiers; using a crossover unit to separate signals. We were mobile for a time, so we ran with just PAs (a couple of Mackies).
I've been looking online at the best way to run subwoofers with the X32 without the crossover unit, and currently I have it where I'm sending a full copy of our FOH mix to a Mixbus, then routing that to a Matrix to output (channel 11 for us) to the subwoofer amplifier (which is currently cranked to 90-100% output). I used this video here to set up the routing.
The 2 subwoofer cabinets (2x24") are daisychained together.
We're getting signal, but it's very quiet - I can control the output using the Matrix fader but it's topping out and we're barely moving the subs.
What do you think is the issue here - this is a working amp - and the old crossover unit wouldn't have boosted signal at all?... so could it be that we would need to power the subs separately and not daisychain? would we have to use 2 matrix sends to power each sub?
In an odd way, this sounds like a fun troubleshooting opportunity. For the console, all we are doing is routing signal to different places so using a second matrix will not change the output of your actual subwoofers. If it were me, I would start by sending a copy of the Main L/R mix to the subs and turn off the EQ and any FX on the mains. This will confirm a direct signal path going to amps and subs. I usually just run audio from a computer (Spotify) so I know I have a well produced signal as my source. If the subs are still thin you will want to explore the details of the amp /sub combo. If the subs get bigger than we need to look at how you are routing the signal inside the console, what EQ's you have set in place and the tap points on your outputs.
For your amp / sub combo, it will be good to know if your amp is a single channel amp or running in bridged mono. Are your sub boxes configured to 8 ohm which then (combined) creates a 4 ohm load on the amp which doubles power output. Also, confirm your subs are wired correctly in phase with each other so they are not cancelling signal.
I'm happy to continue helping here, but if you'd like a direct one-on-one session we can get things covered in about an hour over the phone. You can start this conversation outside of youtube by going to my website and filling out the contact card. sound.allamhouse.com
@@AllamHouse thank you! This has given me a good deal to consider and think about
I like to run aux fed subs because,
i use 2x dual 18 subs in the middle of the stage, then i have 2x single 15/18 subs on the side with my Array tops ontop for my LR mix.
Then i send the outside mic (for low-end only) of the kickdrum to the dual subs(aux fed) and the inside of kickdrum mic with a low cut of 100hz so i get mostly attack to the LR system. then bass guitar and the rest of the mix also to the LR speakers.
Is this an effective way to get separation of kick and bass guitar, low-end spread and a cleaner sound? what issues may occur?
I would personally run all of my subs from the same output so your subs are in mono. work your placement of these subs to minimize cancellation within the room. You will not achieve "separation" of your instruments in the sub frequencies (below 150 hz). Your kick drum is heard in the mix in the 1,000-6,000hz area and the bass guitar is heard in the 200-600hz range. You hear the instruments in the top end (higher frequencies) and you feel them in the low frequencies. While your approach does sound well thought out, I'm usually concerned about how to teach this setup to the next person. Also, depending on your room shape (and many other factors) you might end up creating a bunch of null points in your room for low frequencies.
How do you go about using the EQ, compression and gates on channels for instance the kick drum when everything is spread over 2 channels, your main for the tops and your aux out for the subs?
The channel strip (gate, EQ, comp) are specific to the input channel. Once you have engaged those tools you determine where this resultant sound will go. Usually it will go to the Main LR BUS for your top cabinets. Also, you can select to send this to the M/C channel right there on the channel home screen or you can send it to a MixBUS (Aux) to feed a sub as well. Select the MixBUS (on the right side of the console) and then go tot Home > Config to confirm this is setup as Post Fader which means all of the tools on the channel strip are impacting the sound going to this MixBUS and the fader for this channel will function in terms of turning it up or down. This way you do not turn down the channel and still have it blasting through the sub. Finally, select the MixBUS, hit "Sends on Fader" and turn up the channel in your subs to the desired amount.
We are using a S32 stagebox connected to the M32 for church Input and Output. An Engineer setup this up 5 years ago. Watching your video I can understand how the FOH L/R bus is copied to the Matrix 1 and 2. In our setup this works well I can use the Fader for Matrix 1 & 2 and make the sound going to a BOSE F1 array speakers and they are connected to Output 1 and 2 in the S32. My problem is the I wanted to connected a Bose F1 Subwoofer to Output #5 that would controlled by Matrix #5. I know I can just copy again FOH to Matrix #5 and apply a cross over EQ for the Bass sound but I do not know how to route so that my connection on the S32 would be Output#5. Where are the setting and how can I reverse engineer the S32 output #1 & #2 because I can clearly prove that Faders for Matrix #1 & #2 are controlling the sound going Output #1 & #2 to our BOSE F1 Array Speakers. Some might say just connect the Output#1 first to the F1 Subwoofer and daisy chain the connection from there to the F1 Array Speakers. Well I want the subwoofer to have its own Matrix #5. Can you please tell me what video to watch when it comes to routing in the M32/S32. Btw in the M32 we are connected AES50 A to S32 A. Or maybe you just tell us where to go in the M32 menus. Thanks for your help.
To setup the Matrix 5 to go out output 5 you will go to Routing > Out and scroll to Out 5 on the left. Then you can select your source where you choose Matrix 5 and then the tap point (usually Post Fader). Assuming you have your Routing > AES50a set to Output 1-8 these changes will automatically send our Sub guns to the output 5 on your stage box.
Hi Dave,
Great video! You didn't talk about adding any instruments in the matrix but I believe we know how that works. One question - We are using a AES50A stagebox. When we try and adjust any volume on the subs none of the faders affect the sub output. What is the proper routing for that mix bus? Thanks.
First thing to keep in mind is that the full audio signal is going to the Main Bus. I then copied that Bus and sent it to the Matrix which offered me additional EQ and a separate output to feed the Subwoofer. You can send inputs to a matrix, only Buses.
For your volume control situation, you will want to check that your tap point for the output is set properly. This video discusses the two different settings that have the same terminology around Pre/Post Fader. th-cam.com/video/1GNmNWdVWKg/w-d-xo.html
In this setup, the vocal mics would be sent to the subs, how would you circumvent the low end rumble form the vocal mics besides using the channel hpf, I find that that does not work well. I typically run aux sub or straight M/C.
I completely agree with you that there are many advantages to running an AUX sub and you are correct that I am only using the HPF on the vocal channels to minimize bleed into the subs. Typically speaking, most sound techs are not educated enough to setup a proper AUX sub and for a small venue with many volunteers I feel have one seem less PA is easier for them to understand and troubleshoot when things don’t go as expected. The benefits of simplicity out-weigh the extra complexity of the AUX sub setup.
How do you select what goes to the subwoofer, especially if you only want the kick and the bass guitar to be on the sub without other instrument?
The Matrix method does not provide the ability to send individual inputs to the subs, but this video here will provide you with two options for running an "AUX Sub" which is what you are looking to do. th-cam.com/video/0TWCvrqYl9w/w-d-xo.html
My sub has left and right input how would you route this to the X32? Thank you...
Many subs are designed to be a starting point for your PA with built in crossovers and often will take your input signals, aim them to mono for the low end and then have the ability to send out high-passed signals to your top cabinets. In the end, just treat it like a regular, mono sub and connect as described in this video and you will be fine.
Thanks for this. If you wanted stereo sub out then I'm guessing you could send the stereo bus matrix to 13 as well and pan each 13 and 14?
You could do that and have stereo subs. Typically people only run subs in mono in an effort to minimize cancelation and muddiness within the venue.
@@AllamHouse Thanks! Run mono and stereo subs side by side (swap their signal) if you get a chance on modern bassy music like dub. Once you set the gains evenly the stereo's quality is very noticeably better. Even with only one sub. Tested in variety of spaces. Unanimous blind agreement on the quality. I'm not an expert but one of the manufacturer's reps said it has to do with phase cancellations in the mono signal processing.
Try it out :D
(I suggest using a sub that this would clearly make a difference if you can: KS28, PK G28, JBL VTX G28, Bassboss ZV28, etc.)
Sounds like a fun adventure for sure. I wish I had the gear available to run this experiment, but I'll have to take your word for it in terms of the difference.
So is the Main LR and the sub m/c all going to that matrix so it can all be controlled with the one fader?
In this example you are not using the M/C as an Aux fed sub, you are just taking the LR signal and sending it to the matrix. The matrix is only feeding the subwoofer so you can use the channel strip EQ to alter the signal before it leaves the console for your subs. You can also adjust the overall volume level of the sub using the Matrix fader, but the Main Lr fader is still a mater volume that will turn the entire PA (and sub) up or down. I hope that helps.
I’ve never understood the use case for doing this instead of utilizing the mono bus on every channel strip, then high & low passing main LR and M/C accordingly, routing M/C to an output that goes out to subs. Would you not have more control over what goes to the subs with this method?
I’m sure there is a reason for the matrix fed, I really want to be enlightened… thanks!
You are exactly right that the method you mentioned (using the M/C channel) does provide more flexibility. What I find is that this increased flexibility makes it harder to teach/train new users and doesn’t offer as consistent of a setup (and maybe sound) as some groups strive to achieve. Using a matrix as mentioned in this video allows one fader to control all of your volume for the PA, still offers the low-pass EQ options for your sub and allows the PA to be one unified system. Obviously, this isn’t the final method for all users, but it does work really well in many venues. I hope that helps.
This is what I do! I send my Main LR bus to Matrix 1 and 2, high pass that accordingly. Then I send only the instruments I want in the subs to the M/C bus and that gets sent to Matrix 3, low passed accordingly. I find this to be a simple and clean way to do it. No need to have any unintended ,non musical low end rumble in the subs!
@@drumskentala Why don't you just get rid of the matrix? put a high pass on the main L/R and send the M/C straight to the sub?
@@derrickb4739 I used to do this and then a friend mentioned he likes his outputs to hit the same amount of buses and matrices. Granted X32 self adjusts for any lag (can’t think of the correct word).
Its also nice to see every output in a nice clean line across the matrices, typically L, R, Sub, Fill and sometimes a guest feed through a venue on Matrix 5, and a video/broadcast on 6. I send the Main bus and M/C buss to unity and all output levels are set o. Matrices.
I have a question about routing matrix to Aux Outs (TS/TRS). Are these connectors TS (unbalanced) or TRS (balanced)??? I would like to use these connectors (assuming balanced TRS) for matrix outputs on a X32R. Alternatively, I may route my buses 1-6 to the Aux outputs for IEMs, and route my matrices to the XLR outputs...
If I look at the block diagram in the user manual, it shows 1/4" AUX Inputs as TRS connector and the 1/4" AUX Outputs as TS connector. Should I assume that these 1/4" Aux outs are NOT balanced?
The 1/4” AUX outputs are not balanced. I would be inclined to send your BUS outs to the AUX out 1/4” connections and then send your Matrix mixes out the XLR outputs.
If the mains are being routed to a s16 (Output 7 & 8) can I still connect my subwoofer to Output 14 on my x32 (full console)?
Short answer… yes.
You would need to make sure you have the Routing > Out is set to be sourced by your Subwoofer “mix” and then look to confirm that Routing > XLR has your xLR 14 sourced by Output 14. Assuming these items are in place all of your setup will work properly. This video might offer more insight on the Routing tab and how everything interacts together. th-cam.com/video/PpeqRuPGi2Y/w-d-xo.html
Please can you do a video on how you tune your pa speakers
I have had a few requests for this type of video and my challenge is that I do not have access to a setup environment to use as a demo place. I do it a lot for customers when I'm on-site, but usually they don't want their venue to be recorded. I'll see if I can record one coming up and make a usable video out of it.
@@AllamHouse How about a video on smaart time alignment software, seems fitting
Putting gate or noise Isolation on a AUX CHANNEL to eliminate humming or ground noises... Please explain a how to .. or an alternative..
So, the console does not offer a gate on the AUX channels so you would need to use a regular channel. If your signal is coming in on an AUX channel (maybe a keyboard plugged in with a 1/4” cable) you can route that inout internally to be the source for a regular channel which then provides the gate and other channel strip effects.
To do this, select the desired channel (1-32) and go to Home > Config. Use the first encoder to select the Source as the AUX channel your input (keyboard in this example) is plugged into. I do recommend doing a similar change on the actual AUX channel, but turning it to the top “off” position so you do not have two signals being sent into a mix somehow.
H, how to route two subwoofer in the matrix
Thanks
You can either send from one sub to the other if there is an output or through-put on the sub. You can also just route the same matrix mix to go out a second output so you have two unique outputs that share the same source. This would be done in Routing > Outs.
How do you exclude the vocals from the sub matrix?
You are asking about an AUX Sub which is different than what I have setup here. There are two main ways to go about an AUX Sub setup. 1) You can use the built-in M/C channel and only feed it with the inputs you want to go to your sub. Then route the output out an XLR send and send it to your subs. The other is to 2) Choose a MixBUS and only send the desired elements to that Bus. Route the Bus out an XLR and send it to your subs. There are pros and cons to each one that I put together in a video to discuss since it’s easier than typing it all out.
Hi, until now I've seen many Videos about this Matrix topic. Unfortunately, I still don't understand the issue. If I've 2 Tops maybe 15" (Main L+R) and 2 Subs 18" (L+R), I'm already able to Route my Subs to 2 Mixbusses and send any Instrument Signal which I need for my busses. Why do I still need the Matrices? Ultimately, this does not save me any further outputs. Can someone please explain this to me again? Thanks a lot guys.
It’s less about saving outputs and more about saving MixBuses for other purposes in your mixing. Maybe you want them as groups, parallel compression, etc. Running your subs through a normal Bus means it will not follow your Main fader and if you adjust your Mains up or down the subs will stay the same. By using a Post Fader Matrix you can set the ratio of subs to your mains and then adjust the Main fader to move the entire PA up or down while still having control of just the subs if you need to move those with the Matrix fader. If you want to run an AUX Sub setup, but have it follow your Main fader, the X32 offers the M/C bus which is a true mono bus that can follow your Main Fader and give you the best of both worlds. I discuss this setup in this video. th-cam.com/video/0TWCvrqYl9w/w-d-xo.htmlsi=RytrZEop1o5nRT_k
@@AllamHouse Thanks for the detailed explanation. I‘ll give it a try abs hope that I‘ll find the best possible method for my purposes. You helped me a lot. All the best to you. Greets from Germany.