A video that should have been released a year and a half ago, lets examine Pathologic 2 through my eyes looking through the creator's eyes. #Pathologic #Pathologic2
Pathologic 2 is one of my favorite games of all time and seeing this video makes me both happy and sad (just like the game itself made me feel nearly constantly). I'm glad it exists and I'm glad there are people that genuinely love and respect it. I'm also heartbroken knowing that the game will always remain as an obscure, forgotten and heavily criticized piece of art.
My dude, I’m a fan of your work. I hope you realize that even if your work isn’t as big compared to others, you really shouldn’t. Be proud that you are creating is unique, it’s special. And you have people here enjoying it. But the fact that you have fan where watching is just dessert after the main dish. What truly matters I that you have done something that you are proud of.
After watching this video I’m getting worried about the Bachelor route DLC coming out. I knew the game did poorly in terms of sales and critical reception but I didn’t realize the internal state of IPL was THIS fragile. That absolutely breaks my heart. This series is so good. I’ve never been so enthralled in game as I have been with these two. Playing them gave me the same level of curiosity and wonder that I used to get when playing oblivion when I was a little kid, when the boundary of fiction and reality didn’t see nearly as concrete and where I wanted to know everything about the games world, every story and character, it’s history, etc. where I stopped thinking in the back of my mind “it’s a video game, they designed it like this for X pragmatic purpose”, instead seeing it as an actual, living world, with causality and history behind it I thought for a long time that it was impossible to get those feelings again as an adult, that they only exist in childhood when you can’t see the artifice of the game as it actually is, but games like Pathologic proved me wrong. It is possible, but it’s much more difficult to pull off. Pathologic is a masterpiece of interactive story telling. It will be a true shame if they aren’t able to fully realize it’s sequel. Another example of “the greatest games never made”
Pathologic 2 also reminded me of what oblivion was like when I played it as a kid. I was so surprised to play a game as an adult that made me so curious as if I was child again.
Great video, love the dissection of Nikolay as a lens for looking at the game, which actually helps to make the subject feel much more real and grounded than if we were just looking at character dialogue.
Playing Pathologic is like getting punched in the face by a 12d entity. I loved this game and hope they release the other two pathways. Great video mate. I don't know how this man Nikolai pulled this off.
i liked that your review is from a different perspective compare to the other pathologic 2 reviews. and i liked your opinions and associating the game with the creator. you kno there is a side quest called victoria's trace. when i traced the piano melody (gnossienne no 3) to a house and followed trough the stairs then find the source of the melody i was so impressed and facinated. then i learned to play that melody. when i play it i almost feel like artemy gonna find me like in that quest XD yeah i just wanted to say that. btw sorry for my EngRİsh if i write something wrong it's not my main language.
Your English is good! I haven't heard of that quest, very cool. TH-cam is already flooded with game reviews, I'm happy I could bring something different to the table.
I find it really interesting how, some people can really loose themselves in these types of thought processes. For me Pathologic 2 is simply an experience of a man trying to defeat a seemingly unstoppable force, fighting against the horrible odds but still coming out on top. I worked ceaselessly on defeating the plague because it made the people I have grown to care about miserable. I outwitted the Looters in the burned districts even though the can kill me in 2 swings. I made it through the game and was able to hug Lara on day 11, I saved the people that I could and destroyed the thing that made them miserable. Not calling Artemy the games Main Character seems a disservice to the things he accomplishes. Just because things happen without him, doesn't mean he's not the reason the town survives in the end (or dies). If anything the town is like the love interest of Artemy. As the whole reason he's doing what he's doing is because he needs to sow it back together like Isidor said. The town is like Princess Peach and Artemy is Super Mario while the plague is Bowser.
Terrific work. I was already convinced, but your video has only amplified my commitment to the idea, that Nikolai is a genius. I will consume any art he puts forth in this world.
Im paraphrasing but when you said you obsess over making every tiny detail perfect but in the end it’s just shit anyways, and that you see other people’s success over seemingly low grade content I was like “ahhh...yes...a true artist indeed he is” 😅. You’re videos rock. I’m actually inspired to start making my own TH-cam videos were I needlessly muse over mundane stuff I’m probably too obsessed about.
this is a really interesting and well made. i LOVE pathologic, but know very little about its outside development. I've known that the studio isn't generally overly successful, but seeing how much they've struggled is really sad. it hurts to think that my favourite video game (and possibly even my favourite piece of art) will never be completely finished. super insightful video man
Хорошо, Товарищ! It's always nice to see Pathologic getting love. This game is truly is a masterpiece of art expression and bold game design. Now that I know of it's production history, it's even more fascinating to me. The meta moments are my favorite in the game, as they really show the amount of care and artistic talent put into it. The atmosphere of a strange steppe town speaks directly to me. This game makes me want to ride out of my city's center to the deserted outskirts, get a horse and go on a little adventure, while reading one of my favourite Dostoevsky novels. Truly, a masterpiece. You know what else is a masterpiece? I've been watching your videos for quite a while now, and they're all masterpieces in my opinion. One day, for sure, this channel will blow up. Well, at least I hope so. For now, I just want you to know that one college student from Russia is really enjoying your videos. Keep up the good work!
@@talkinbout8159 Хорошо! P.S. Your ending monologue about valuing the process of making art, treasuring the enjoyment one recieves while working on a project reminds me of my own experiences, as well as other youtubers videos. In particular, your way of structuring and scripting this video reminded me of KliksPhillip style. I do little games and programms as a hobby. I never actually finish them fully, but I'm happy making them. Programming some small details that no one will ever notice, and being very proud of success is a funny feeling. I think people who really value art that they produce always sweat over little details, and once they are done with them, they find more. It is indeed a loop. Also, the amount of research you've done is very admirable. Sure, the whole theory of Pathologic being about the creator's feelings sounds humorously pretentious at first, but it's beatiful as fuck. This beaty of connected pieces is truly wonderful. I love it.
Really interesting video and I greatly appreciate the research and context that went into it, sorely lacking good analysis of this game beyond the base-level stuff you see in many reviews. I'm not quite sure I fully agree with identifying the kin with the art in such a direct way, but it does go some ways to explaining the fact they have tied the nocturnal ending to the preservation of the polyhedron, essentially the high ideal made manifest. At the the heart of the central choice lies the tension between the pursuit of idealism and beauty vs. empathy for and acceptance of the world as it is and the people who make up that world. Maybe this is the real difference between 1 and 2, 2 brings a new understanding and empathy for the townspeople and respect for their spirit that is cast aside in the Diurnal wending. Perhaps you can even map this onto his relationship with his coworkers at the studio to some extent...
@talkinbout8159 Seriously, the latest news on the bachelor route has inspired me to play through classic and fall in love with these games all over again. Hoping the Bachelor route is not too far away and brings much-deserved critical recognition their way
I dont really know what to say. But thank you for the art you create. And that it has opened a different insight to view the world from the outside looking in. (Your videos allow me to think.)
Interesting video, I don’t really play video games but I do think that it can often be overlooked as a form of art. Also just as an aside: great music choice, Satie’s Gnossienne no. 3 is often overshadowed by Gnossienne no. 1 and the Trois Gymnopedies but it’s probably my favorite piece by him to both play and listen to.
@@talkinbout8159 I agree it has such an ethereal quality to it and the first time hitting that low B in the middle of the piece is just excellence. I think it’s funny that Satie wanted his music to be “furniture music” akin to like ambiance or background music and got mad that people started intently listening to his pieces.... like okay buddy no need to flex on us that hard.
@@talkinbout8159 he was a very interesting man, one of his ballets had set design by Picasso and it’s premiere resulted in a riot so he was jailed for “cultural anarchy.” He also wrote a piece _Vexations_ published posthumously that said, “in order to play the theme 840 times in succession, it would be advisable to prepare oneself beforehand, and in the deepest silence, through serious immobilities,” as direction and at some point people took that to heart so now most performances of the piece are around 20 hours long. Though that would be just the best after death troll my theory for that inscription is that he had written it after his brief (and only known) romantic affair and was supposed to be a meditation and way to get over the intense relationship and was not intended to be published. Anyway you should look up his life, there’s way more he was a super interesting person but also kind of tragic lonely figure.
This was a really interesting and fun watch, I'd caught the commentary on the uniqueness of art but I wasn't aware it may have came from such a personal place. Btw, would you be ok to post some links to your sources? Some articles are screenshot but a few times you say "X person said this" with no source, not saying you're lying I'm just interested in seeing where the supporting info for this came from
Happy to, I'm 80% sure this is everything I used: dtf.ru/gamedev/115880-ice-pick-lodge-zhivet-i-pogibat-ne-sobiraetsya-beseda-s-avtorami-mora-o-motivacii-i-budushchih-proektah-studii www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-difficulty-with-pathologic-2s-difficulty gameworldobserver.com/2020/12/21/ice-pick-lodge/ decipheringrw.wordpress.com/2019/01/01/and-what-it-has-to-do-with-videogames/ dtf.ru/gamedev/65410-inogda-vygodnee-proigrat-voynu-chem-vyigrat-ee-bolshoe-intervyu-s-ice-pick-lodge-o-more th-cam.com/video/WyJTZ0_PO84/w-d-xo.html gamingbolt.com/pathologic-interview-an-enemy-you-cant-kill docs.google.com/document/d/18qEaz8Dy7ct8Wtq-cT0V0natwCnJg6aOKMMrn73SPek/edit drive.google.com/file/d/1V0jfnDUTweFd2GcMNU_gKnoMrc-7oZoF/edit The last one is a fantastic read.
I'm honestly kind of glad the story was changed. I can't speak for all asians (especially the buryats and other groups the games are based on), but a lot of it came of as way more insensitive or downright racist to me aljkllk. I've talked with other pathologic fans of color (people who are mixed the same way Artemy is included, obviously), and they also think P2 handles it relatively more sympathetic. There's still a lack of care in areas, but it didn't make me as nauseous as the first Pathologic
@@talkinbout8159 All of these issues actually extend to Patho 2, but it just felt a lot more intense to me in Pathologic 1. I don’t think I can write an entire analysis here and also I’m a little tired right now, so like, I’ll just do broad strokes. It's also not really a complete picture since Patho 1 turned me off so much I never watched a full playthrough, so some of these points were brought up by other poc. Although , there are fans of color who argue these issues are much much worse in Pathologic 2, so again, I can't speak for everyone. 1. It’s the way they’re written in a more dehumanizing way in story and in dialogue (at least to me, some Patho fans of color say that Patho 2 is actually much worse with the “vaguely asian people are not human and need to become human to survive” part. That part is still uncomfortable tbh). Even if the only poc in town are not even supposed to be human, stories like this can go so wrong so fast if you're not careful. 2. The “Mystical PoC” trope is also… a whole thing. Mystical PoC are written a lot differently from white people who have supernatural abilities. A lot of it comes of as exotic mysticism. Someone also brought up how shamanism and tibetan buddhism are used as inspiration both games, but in a way that was offensive (I'm a Filipino Catholic with some local beliefs, so I can't really confirm it myself but tibetans have mentioned it, so I just wanted to mention it in case) 3. Also, characters having the option to be racist has never been a decision that sat well for me. It’s not quite the same as being the option to be an asshole, which would be fine. At some point you have to decide why it’s important for the player to have that option. I mean there are other ways to be unkind. I really do not think there is a justifiable reason to roleplay as a racist, even if it is to play an asshole. I don't exactly trust someone who wants to roleplay as a racist on purpose. I try to consider that it's supposed to give insight into a character's biases, but, at some point, I think there should be a line drawn because there are parts that just succeeded in making me feel sick. I think there could have been a balance of it, but it just completely missed the mark for me. 4. (It's still too much for me to say without someone to help me out, but I also kind of want to add it) I know the herb brides dress like that for plot reasons, but speaking from my own culture and history, even when tribes forgo wearing a shirt and bra, it isn’t sexualized the same way the herb brides are. This goes into the issue of sexualizing of indigenous women as well tbh. That's not something I'm really equiped to talk about. 5. (For context, Ice-Pick Lodge confirmed the kin to be inspired by different cultures) A lot of parts that were taken from different Asian cultures looked more like exoticized products to be sold to white audiences than actual existing parts of this made-up culture. Again, I don’t know how to explain it well since it's usually just obvious to me and the people I talk to. It’s just something you learn to see or feel after being subjected to this kind of stuff over and over again non-stop. There’s a ton more I haven’t touched on (I know indigenous patho fans have a lot more to say, and especially patho fans of color who actually finished a single playthrough) but off the top of my head this are the issues.
holy shit this is long. and this just the tip of the iceberg. Sorry it's a lot. Edit: Also, to be clear, to me it didn't feel like all of this was done with malicious intent. It just felt like someone who tried to explore ideas and create a great story, but all the stereotyping and learned biases, and lack of knowledge spilled out
@@stigmatawood You are writing a script yourself, there's so much you touch on that it is beyond me to comment on this. All I can say is, you're crafting your own subjective experience, put it out there.
@@talkinbout8159 thank you! Although, I really have no intention to talk about this on youtube, since it's not the kind of thing I want to do. I'll stick to shitposts for now. Also! Thanks for the video on IPL's past! It was very insightful!
I listened with interest until the part where you started to explain the symbolism and it immediately sounded stupid to me. Your explanation makes it sound like it's about some petty, personal bullshit and not anything deep or truly meaningful. It's possible to find the creator in their art (to some extent) but I kind of can't stand these cartoonish ideas of meaning about my favorite pieces of art. This is why I usually avoid videos that try to explain what my favorite games/movies are about. Sorry. I'm a grump.
To each their own, but even if this is what Pathologic 2 truly means for Nikolay, it shouldn't diminish what you took from the game. It doesn't make it any less 'deep' or 'meaningful.'
Pathologic 2 is one of my favorite games of all time and seeing this video makes me both happy and sad (just like the game itself made me feel nearly constantly). I'm glad it exists and I'm glad there are people that genuinely love and respect it. I'm also heartbroken knowing that the game will always remain as an obscure, forgotten and heavily criticized piece of art.
Bittersweet indeed.
So glad I'm not the only weirdo that fell in love with this game.
Even your subscribers sleeping on you 😤 keep up the great content man, I’m really enjoying the variety in your video essays
Thank you!
My dude, I’m a fan of your work.
I hope you realize that even if your work isn’t as big compared to others, you really shouldn’t.
Be proud that you are creating is unique, it’s special.
And you have people here enjoying it.
But the fact that you have fan where watching is just dessert after the main dish.
What truly matters I that you have done something that you are proud of.
That does make it worth while.
After watching this video I’m getting worried about the Bachelor route DLC coming out. I knew the game did poorly in terms of sales and critical reception but I didn’t realize the internal state of IPL was THIS fragile. That absolutely breaks my heart. This series is so good. I’ve never been so enthralled in game as I have been with these two. Playing them gave me the same level of curiosity and wonder that I used to get when playing oblivion when I was a little kid, when the boundary of fiction and reality didn’t see nearly as concrete and where I wanted to know everything about the games world, every story and character, it’s history, etc. where I stopped thinking in the back of my mind “it’s a video game, they designed it like this for X pragmatic purpose”, instead seeing it as an actual, living world, with causality and history behind it I thought for a long time that it was impossible to get those feelings again as an adult, that they only exist in childhood when you can’t see the artifice of the game as it actually is, but games like Pathologic proved me wrong. It is possible, but it’s much more difficult to pull off. Pathologic is a masterpiece of interactive story telling. It will be a true shame if they aren’t able to fully realize it’s sequel. Another example of “the greatest games never made”
I am really dubious it will ever come out, but knowing Nikolay, he'll probably dedicate himself to getting it done. Lets hope!
Pathologic 2 also reminded me of what oblivion was like when I played it as a kid. I was so surprised to play a game as an adult that made me so curious as if I was child again.
I thoroughly enjoyed this look into the Pathologic series. I look forward to seeing where you go next.
Wow, this is a great video, really appreciate the work you've thrown into it
Great video, love the dissection of Nikolay as a lens for looking at the game, which actually helps to make the subject feel much more real and grounded than if we were just looking at character dialogue.
This is really beautiful. Thank you.
Playing Pathologic is like getting punched in the face by a 12d entity. I loved this game and hope they release the other two pathways. Great video mate. I don't know how this man Nikolai pulled this off.
Same, really hoping we don't have to wait years for the other stories
Hey, congrats for the amazing work gathering info about IPL. I hadn't been able to find out that much, and this is very illustrating.
They are really the most interesting game designers out there.
i liked that your review is from a different perspective compare to the other pathologic 2 reviews. and i liked your opinions and associating the game with the creator.
you kno there is a side quest called victoria's trace. when i traced the piano melody (gnossienne no 3) to a house and followed trough the stairs then find the source of the melody i was so impressed and facinated. then i learned to play that melody.
when i play it i almost feel like artemy gonna find me like in that quest XD
yeah i just wanted to say that. btw sorry for my EngRİsh if i write something wrong it's not my main language.
Your English is good! I haven't heard of that quest, very cool. TH-cam is already flooded with game reviews, I'm happy I could bring something different to the table.
@@talkinbout8159 thanks :p
I find it really interesting how, some people can really loose themselves in these types of thought processes. For me Pathologic 2 is simply an experience of a man trying to defeat a seemingly unstoppable force, fighting against the horrible odds but still coming out on top. I worked ceaselessly on defeating the plague because it made the people I have grown to care about miserable. I outwitted the Looters in the burned districts even though the can kill me in 2 swings. I made it through the game and was able to hug Lara on day 11, I saved the people that I could and destroyed the thing that made them miserable. Not calling Artemy the games Main Character seems a disservice to the things he accomplishes. Just because things happen without him, doesn't mean he's not the reason the town survives in the end (or dies). If anything the town is like the love interest of Artemy. As the whole reason he's doing what he's doing is because he needs to sow it back together like Isidor said. The town is like Princess Peach and Artemy is Super Mario while the plague is Bowser.
Terrific work. I was already convinced, but your video has only amplified my commitment to the idea, that Nikolai is a genius. I will consume any art he puts forth in this world.
Agreed, hopefully his work will be appreciated more in the future.
Keep it up bro, the views dont reflect quality. Your content is on point. Ive never even heard of the game and i enjoyed the video
That's awesome thanks!
Im paraphrasing but when you said you obsess over making every tiny detail perfect but in the end it’s just shit anyways, and that you see other people’s success over seemingly low grade content I was like “ahhh...yes...a true artist indeed he is” 😅. You’re videos rock. I’m actually inspired to start making my own TH-cam videos were I needlessly muse over mundane stuff I’m probably too obsessed about.
That's wonderful and my hopes exactly! Unleash your musings into the world.
This video makes me happy that I chose the Kin ending in Patho 2.
this is a really interesting and well made. i LOVE pathologic, but know very little about its outside development. I've known that the studio isn't generally overly successful, but seeing how much they've struggled is really sad. it hurts to think that my favourite video game (and possibly even my favourite piece of art) will never be completely finished. super insightful video man
Hopefully they can finish the game if they new, more "mainstream" game does well
I knew I was right to save the polyhedron
Such a brilliant video
I watched your KOTH video a while back and loved it.
Now I find out you’re a Pathologic fan?
Christmas came early this year it seems
oh man... this hit me like a truck. Very good video. Thank you.
Хорошо, Товарищ! It's always nice to see Pathologic getting love. This game is truly is a masterpiece of art expression and bold game design. Now that I know of it's production history, it's even more fascinating to me. The meta moments are my favorite in the game, as they really show the amount of care and artistic talent put into it. The atmosphere of a strange steppe town speaks directly to me. This game makes me want to ride out of my city's center to the deserted outskirts, get a horse and go on a little adventure, while reading one of my favourite Dostoevsky novels. Truly, a masterpiece.
You know what else is a masterpiece?
I've been watching your videos for quite a while now, and they're all masterpieces in my opinion.
One day, for sure, this channel will blow up. Well, at least I hope so.
For now, I just want you to know that one college student from Russia is really enjoying your videos.
Keep up the good work!
Большое спасибо! Hope google translate did its job right.
@@talkinbout8159 Хорошо!
P.S. Your ending monologue about valuing the process of making art, treasuring the enjoyment one recieves while working on a project reminds me of my own experiences, as well as other youtubers videos. In particular, your way of structuring and scripting this video reminded me of KliksPhillip style.
I do little games and programms as a hobby. I never actually finish them fully, but I'm happy making them. Programming some small details that no one will ever notice, and being very proud of success is a funny feeling. I think people who really value art that they produce always sweat over little details, and once they are done with them, they find more. It is indeed a loop.
Also, the amount of research you've done is very admirable.
Sure, the whole theory of Pathologic being about the creator's feelings sounds humorously pretentious at first, but it's beatiful as fuck. This beaty of connected pieces is truly wonderful. I love it.
@@lazzyxp That was very well said. It's always the little details no one will notice that you smile about.
Really interesting video and I greatly appreciate the research and context that went into it, sorely lacking good analysis of this game beyond the base-level stuff you see in many reviews. I'm not quite sure I fully agree with identifying the kin with the art in such a direct way, but it does go some ways to explaining the fact they have tied the nocturnal ending to the preservation of the polyhedron, essentially the high ideal made manifest.
At the the heart of the central choice lies the tension between the pursuit of idealism and beauty vs. empathy for and acceptance of the world as it is and the people who make up that world. Maybe this is the real difference between 1 and 2, 2 brings a new understanding and empathy for the townspeople and respect for their spirit that is cast aside in the Diurnal wending. Perhaps you can even map this onto his relationship with his coworkers at the studio to some extent...
Thanks for the continued discourse! Game feels lost to time already...
@talkinbout8159 Seriously, the latest news on the bachelor route has inspired me to play through classic and fall in love with these games all over again. Hoping the Bachelor route is not too far away and brings much-deserved critical recognition their way
Excellent video - you might be on to something. Also, love the game.
Love this game and your channel bro.
I dont really know what to say. But thank you for the art you create. And that it has opened a different insight to view the world from the outside looking in. (Your videos allow me to think.)
I appreciate the kind words
Next video: Talkin'boot Canada
Interesting video, I don’t really play video games but I do think that it can often be overlooked as a form of art. Also just as an aside: great music choice, Satie’s Gnossienne no. 3 is often overshadowed by Gnossienne no. 1 and the Trois Gymnopedies but it’s probably my favorite piece by him to both play and listen to.
I can't take credit for that they use it in the game, it's beautiful!
@@talkinbout8159 I agree it has such an ethereal quality to it and the first time hitting that low B in the middle of the piece is just excellence. I think it’s funny that Satie wanted his music to be “furniture music” akin to like ambiance or background music and got mad that people started intently listening to his pieces.... like okay buddy no need to flex on us that hard.
@@linseyspolidoro5122 This composer is starting to sound very interesting...
@@talkinbout8159 he was a very interesting man, one of his ballets had set design by Picasso and it’s premiere resulted in a riot so he was jailed for “cultural anarchy.” He also wrote a piece _Vexations_ published posthumously that said, “in order to play the theme 840 times in succession, it would be advisable to prepare oneself beforehand, and in the deepest silence, through serious immobilities,” as direction and at some point people took that to heart so now most performances of the piece are around 20 hours long. Though that would be just the best after death troll my theory for that inscription is that he had written it after his brief (and only known) romantic affair and was supposed to be a meditation and way to get over the intense relationship and was not intended to be published.
Anyway you should look up his life, there’s way more he was a super interesting person but also kind of tragic lonely figure.
@@linseyspolidoro5122 Wow, yes that's fascinating, thanks for that. I'll look into him.
Awesome video as always.
I was surprised to see this video has just 230 views and now 230 thousands
I looked at this.
good vid
😎
This was a really interesting and fun watch, I'd caught the commentary on the uniqueness of art but I wasn't aware it may have came from such a personal place.
Btw, would you be ok to post some links to your sources? Some articles are screenshot but a few times you say "X person said this" with no source, not saying you're lying I'm just interested in seeing where the supporting info for this came from
Happy to, I'm 80% sure this is everything I used:
dtf.ru/gamedev/115880-ice-pick-lodge-zhivet-i-pogibat-ne-sobiraetsya-beseda-s-avtorami-mora-o-motivacii-i-budushchih-proektah-studii
www.rockpapershotgun.com/the-difficulty-with-pathologic-2s-difficulty
gameworldobserver.com/2020/12/21/ice-pick-lodge/
decipheringrw.wordpress.com/2019/01/01/and-what-it-has-to-do-with-videogames/
dtf.ru/gamedev/65410-inogda-vygodnee-proigrat-voynu-chem-vyigrat-ee-bolshoe-intervyu-s-ice-pick-lodge-o-more
th-cam.com/video/WyJTZ0_PO84/w-d-xo.html
gamingbolt.com/pathologic-interview-an-enemy-you-cant-kill
docs.google.com/document/d/18qEaz8Dy7ct8Wtq-cT0V0natwCnJg6aOKMMrn73SPek/edit
drive.google.com/file/d/1V0jfnDUTweFd2GcMNU_gKnoMrc-7oZoF/edit
The last one is a fantastic read.
Oh and the artwork book off steam, which is very interesting and I suggest picking up!
@@talkinbout8159 Thanks, it's amazing that even 2 years getting into this series and following it religiously I can learn so much about it.
Gonna have to throw up the patreon soon
I'm honestly kind of glad the story was changed. I can't speak for all asians (especially the buryats and other groups the games are based on), but a lot of it came of as way more insensitive or downright racist to me aljkllk. I've talked with other pathologic fans of color (people who are mixed the same way Artemy is included, obviously), and they also think P2 handles it relatively more sympathetic. There's still a lack of care in areas, but it didn't make me as nauseous as the first Pathologic
Can you expand upon it being racist?
@@talkinbout8159
All of these issues actually extend to Patho 2, but it just felt a lot more intense to me in Pathologic 1. I don’t think I can write an entire analysis here and also I’m a little tired right now, so like, I’ll just do broad strokes. It's also not really a complete picture since Patho 1 turned me off so much I never watched a full playthrough, so some of these points were brought up by other poc. Although , there are fans of color who argue these issues are much much worse in Pathologic 2, so again, I can't speak for everyone.
1. It’s the way they’re written in a more dehumanizing way in story and in dialogue (at least to me, some Patho fans of color say that Patho 2 is actually much worse with the “vaguely asian people are not human and need to become human to survive” part. That part is still uncomfortable tbh). Even if the only poc in town are not even supposed to be human, stories like this can go so wrong so fast if you're not careful.
2. The “Mystical PoC” trope is also… a whole thing. Mystical PoC are written a lot differently from white people who have supernatural abilities. A lot of it comes of as exotic mysticism. Someone also brought up how shamanism and tibetan buddhism are used as inspiration both games, but in a way that was offensive (I'm a Filipino Catholic with some local beliefs, so I can't really confirm it myself but tibetans have mentioned it, so I just wanted to mention it in case)
3. Also, characters having the option to be racist has never been a decision that sat well for me. It’s not quite the same as being the option to be an asshole, which would be fine. At some point you have to decide why it’s important for the player to have that option. I mean there are other ways to be unkind. I really do not think there is a justifiable reason to roleplay as a racist, even if it is to play an asshole. I don't exactly trust someone who wants to roleplay as a racist on purpose. I try to consider that it's supposed to give insight into a character's biases, but, at some point, I think there should be a line drawn because there are parts that just succeeded in making me feel sick. I think there could have been a balance of it, but it just completely missed the mark for me.
4. (It's still too much for me to say without someone to help me out, but I also kind of want to add it) I know the herb brides dress like that for plot reasons, but speaking from my own culture and history, even when tribes forgo wearing a shirt and bra, it isn’t sexualized the same way the herb brides are. This goes into the issue of sexualizing of indigenous women as well tbh. That's not something I'm really equiped to talk about.
5. (For context, Ice-Pick Lodge confirmed the kin to be inspired by different cultures) A lot of parts that were taken from different Asian cultures looked more like exoticized products to be sold to white audiences than actual existing parts of this made-up culture.
Again, I don’t know how to explain it well since it's usually just obvious to me and the people I talk to. It’s just something you learn to see or feel after being subjected to this kind of stuff over and over again non-stop. There’s a ton more I haven’t touched on (I know indigenous patho fans have a lot more to say, and especially patho fans of color who actually finished a single playthrough) but off the top of my head this are the issues.
holy shit this is long. and this just the tip of the iceberg. Sorry it's a lot.
Edit: Also, to be clear, to me it didn't feel like all of this was done with malicious intent. It just felt like someone who tried to explore ideas and create a great story, but all the stereotyping and learned biases, and lack of knowledge spilled out
@@stigmatawood You are writing a script yourself, there's so much you touch on that it is beyond me to comment on this. All I can say is, you're crafting your own subjective experience, put it out there.
@@talkinbout8159 thank you! Although, I really have no intention to talk about this on youtube, since it's not the kind of thing I want to do. I'll stick to shitposts for now. Also! Thanks for the video on IPL's past! It was very insightful!
That's a hell of a lack of nuance for an obsessive artist
I listened with interest until the part where you started to explain the symbolism and it immediately sounded stupid to me. Your explanation makes it sound like it's about some petty, personal bullshit and not anything deep or truly meaningful. It's possible to find the creator in their art (to some extent) but I kind of can't stand these cartoonish ideas of meaning about my favorite pieces of art. This is why I usually avoid videos that try to explain what my favorite games/movies are about. Sorry. I'm a grump.
To each their own, but even if this is what Pathologic 2 truly means for Nikolay, it shouldn't diminish what you took from the game. It doesn't make it any less 'deep' or 'meaningful.'