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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ธ.ค. 2022
- Every creature in the game ranked from best to worst! Come along and chill with this essential commentary on one of the greatest games ever made!
This list is for the vanilla Shadow of Death version of the game and for Random Map play on Impossible difficulty - so bear with me, not all your favourites will be at the top!
Watch my latest Inferno run here:
• Heroes 3 Inferno - Epi...
Or watch me playing Conflux here:
• Heroes 3 Conflux -- Ep...
Or watch the youthful beardless me of 2019 playing Stronghold here:
• Heroes 3 Stronghold [E... - เกม
Official Errata: I messed up on Lizardmen and Lizard Warriors, hadn't played Fortress for a while, Warriors are a big plus to everything that matters (damage esp), great with Bless, and I do actually prioritise them pretty highly. I would swap the two over (C to B for Warriors, vice versa for Men).
In a recent playthrough I realised Griffin Tower requires Barracks - unique (I think) build order where Level 4 comes before Level 3. This makes Griffins and Royals harder to get going than I'd remembered and I would demote Griffins to B-, Royals to A-.
For the same reason, I want to promote Swordsmen to C. With Crusaders, not only is the above issue highly relevant but I'd also undervalued their sheer damage output, and 5 crystal isn't as bad as the 10 in my head when I made the vid. These guys go to A-.
its pronounced lich, because they make you itch
lich itch
The arch lych shluld be highier instead of the basic one cuase you get an aoe attack wkch dosen't do frinedly fire to undead units
You could say that you restored the video with this errata, or, as some would say, Restoration by Errata
I think you also might have been thinking about the pre-SOD Lizards which previously had pretty poor stats that weren't worth the upgrade. In SOD they went from 2-3 to 2-5 and gained 15hp compared to 12, and an extra 1/1 att/def making them one of the best T2 in terms of stats.
Crusaders are incredible!
The problem with grand elves and marksmen being S, is that they're also the first to be targetted by everyone and their grandmother.
Hard to keep a power stack going because of how often they get targeted by range shooters spells and castle towers!
Yeah you easily bleed them off but early game with Rampart and Grand Elves is just easy mode. You can clear your starting area and fights super easy with them. End game you get power stack from something else.
@@JackTheNoober This is a good point elves help you romp through the early game map with few casualties, thus hoovering up lots of the resources, artis, and xp at a fast rate.
I think we need to take these rankings with a pinch of salt. It all depends on several factors; is it multiplayer or vs AI? Is it a large map or a small map? Is the difficulty setting normal or impossible? And is the map rich or poor in terms of resources/mines/treasures?
Obviously on a small map, impossible difficulty, poor map the small and cheap creatures rule. Most big creatures will be F tier cuz you don't have time to build them. But on large rich maps with like hard/normal difficulty most big creatures will rule.
That's the thing I think those who make tier lists should state in the title/description. Which factors do you go by when ranking? Even a gremlin is gonna be better than archangels if you can't even build archangels.
@@bosspoke Agree. But in every game or situation behemoths should be S+++ tier. They're almost every time so cheap to get / rush and does the heavy work.
Mighty Gorgons are definitely an S tier, my good Sir.
that death stare is amazing
i wanted to log in just to comment on that. I remember that one time 20 years ago when my big Gorgons stack 1shot a stack of archangel. I still remember the feeling. S tier for sure. This thing can take on anything
@@jpb2366 Except undead.
@@jpb2366Their biggest struggle are Black knights/Dread kights, Psychic elementals/Magic elementals, Vampire lords and ghost dragons all of which counter them. All of them immune to death death stare and being stronger in hand to hand combat. I think either magic elementals or dread knights are the absolute worst matchups. I think mighty g's struggle hard against Psychic elementals, B knights, Vampire lords and ghost dragons. And I think bone dragons go toe to toe with them, or just slightly weaker. Otherwise mighty gorgons should devestate most enemies.
@@bosspoke fair point
8:00 correction: if you don't have a skeleton stack and you have a skeleton warrior stack, and full slots, all raised skeletons come upgraded. Was like that in the complete edition at least from back in the day. I'd always upgrade the stack you start with first turn and spread them.
Hi Anthony yeah another bloke pointed that out too, cheers
P
@@paulgoes5494 Sorry, didn't notice. Was playing in background.
You only get 2/3rds the amount you would get of skeleton warriors though. I’d rather have 300 skeletons than 200 skeleton warriors.
i was just going to say that but someone before me corrected it. yes if you have upgraded skeletons and there are no free slots you rise upgraded skeletons and with Cloak of the Undead King you can also rise upgraded zombies, wraiths and liches if there is no free slot. Also skeletons are awesome esp with Galthran
@@ShadowFerretofD00m I didn't know you only get 2/3 of them. I guess that the best play is to not get any skeleton warrior in the early and mid game. Then upgrade them in the late game.
One thing you're missing about the vampire lords is the fact that they are the fastest necro get till ghost dragon, so along with everything else amazing about the unit, it gives you the speed you need to cast a spell on the enemy grand elves before they can attack your unit. The only range unit faster than vampire lords is the titans.
Missed this one Red, fair point
Had so many issues, decided to skip forward to the final layout. Here are the creatures I personally would reconsider. Master Genie (best onestack), Griffin, royal and otherwise, due to opportunity cost (requires blacksmith, whereupon barracks become better), crusader (utopia slayer), Ancient Behemoth deserves better (strongest brawler in the game, outdamages any t7 and often t8), iron golem a bit up (pvp domination in mage hero duels. Buffable but resistant), bone and ghost dragon can be terrifying (skeleton transformer superstack, hello? not often but when it happens it's surreal), pit lords and demonkind deserve a bit of a raise (Marius demon farming can get absurd. Sac ur gogs in utopia raise 50 demons and similar plays), skeleton (aren't u afraid of a 5000 stack with haste + anti-magic? it's a common strat with say Thant or Galthran, just raise dead and onestack block for the win), I'd swap the dendroid types (because their usefulness to me is bodyblocking the elves and entangle, so the upgrade seems redundant, cause they still don't reach shit), silver pegasus (a bit better imho, has the utlity of reaching the enemy shooter which few creatures of the corresponding tier or lower can boast, except dragon flies who u put in S. Costly, but useful), ogres seem worse to me (their build path is bad. U either want wolfie Tyraxor or bird/behemoth Crag, while the 20 wood ogre fort doesn't play into these powerful strats), wraiths deserve at least a D+ for their early to mid game anti-caster slot-filling potential, Efreet sultan is an A+ tier unit (Armageddon exodia; outbrawls most creatures due to good stats and damage return, super speed, super good, find 1 external firelake and u have a win), green dragon is no higher than B (building them is a nightmare, they are meteor showerable and berserkable and squishy and slow + no portal of summoning as rampart, so you don't get the red dragon summon privileges).
All of those attempt to take into consideration the old SoD meta.
All of this to say that this guide could be a useful refresher for a newly returning player, but for seasoned veterans like ourselves it's a bit off-meta tbh.
Awesome insights Judith! I respect all those views. My primary play mode is single player SOD with everything randomised including hero so, Tyraxor and/or other hero interactions with each creature didn't massively play in to my reasoning (I don't invite heroes). Also because of this I don't get to a lot of late game states with 5000 stacks and other busted exploits as the game is already over (ie I'm either dead or crushing) before that develops. A couple of others have voted strongly for upticks in Storm and Ancients.
I would put Master Genie in A tier just for how much they enable every other creature in Tower. Get a powerstack of Master gremlins and just 3-5 Master Genies in one-stacks, and use their spellcasting on the Gremlins every turn. By the start of 2nd turn your gremlins will likely have bless, precision, prayer, maybe even haste and shield and bloodlust - and you can destroy the entire map just with gremlins and 3-5 master genies. For the investment cost, this is an incredible payoff - and the Genie stats aren't poor to begin with. Twice the damage of the Vamps that they were compared to, more hp, higher speed, better atk and def stats - so they can cast spells as long as possible and then when they're forced to fight they still pack a solid punch for a tier 5 creature that isn't inherently focused on offense, but rather utility.
Demon farming needs to be put in a higher tier too, for obvious reasons.
Black Dragons are absolutely amazing but take so much effort and cost to build up to, will only have very late game impact so any tempo strat will never involve them. My personal favorite (besides Naga Queens) but I still wouldn't put them at the absolute top.
Griffins are meh, you need Blacksmith anyways so who settle for birds when you can jump straight to Swordsmen and Crusaders - both of which are relatively cheap and easy to upgrade and pack a far bigger punch and also have survivability. Base griffons are deceptively slow for a flying creature and if you rely on retaliation taking then you're most likely not in a good spot to begin with. I normally only use Griffins as one-stacks for retal taking or to bodyblock for archers, I'd never count on them for any offensive purpose other than being a meatshield to attract enemy aggro while archers do the cleanup work.
Serpent flies and Dragon flies are great for utility to fight for first turn spellcasting as well as Dragon flies' ability to dispel buffs from enemy creatures - but as an actual unit on the field they do nothing. Low hp, low damage, low priority, dies super easy to spellcasting, if they get slowed they're as good as dead - I'd much rather spend resources building into other units and maybe have 1-2 small stacks of Dragon flies just for the dispel option and nothing else. Good utility creatures but wouldn't put them higher than middle of A.
Storm elementals are amazing. They're expensive for a tier 2 unit, but with bless they pack a tier 4 punch and have range, as well as having a great health pool on top and great speed for a non flier. They're a unit you can rely on in early game, and build into a great powerstack in late game, as long as you have protection from air (which they conveniently can cast on themselves if you have a few one-stacks). Amazing unit, the core of a solid Conflux gameplay alongside Sprites.
Gargoyles are just flying meat until you get to better units. They have no major offensive threat potential, stone gargoyles have very poor speed for a flying creature, their hp isn't significant enough to rely on them as a meat shield over golems, and they have no unique traits going for them. All in all extremely mediocre, and their main benefit is their accessibility and that's about it. Stepping stone to better creatures, but you never want to rely on gargoyles in any state of the game.
I am always more excited for Medusas than Beholders, they offer nearly double the damage for only 20% more cost, and also provide the chance of stone gaze which can be extremely influential in tough fights (very rng dependent but I'd rather have it than not). They still offer no melee penalty, a slight bit of extra hp too but not significantly so. The only benefit of beholders is you unlock them one tier earlier and you get a couple more from dwellings, but when I want to invest my resources I always jump straight to Medusas without wasting too much time on Beholders.
Iron Golems unlock Solmyr's op tempo strat of Chain lightning that doesn't do much damage to yourself so you can take vastly harder fights very early into the game, so whenever I play with that hero they jump straight to A tier :D
Behemoths should probably be low S or A+. The building and its requirements can be done mid week 2 with marginal luck on random maps and they smash the world until week 5 or 6, if the game lasts that long
thank you for this video, it's really hard to rank 100+ units without preparation. it's so cool to see a game realised 20+ years ago being discussed, thanks again!
Thanks xerl! Haha yes it was a pretty big task to bite off in one sitting :)
Stormies in C tier *cry emoji*. They are game enabling in conflux, imho. Pick Grindan, get bless in guild (guild is rollable too in HotA, but it's still a solid chance without the re-rolls), get level 3-5 and stormies. Mass slow, stormie bless, pack of behemoths down day 3, strongest tempo in the game
No that's not your opinion that's just facts, it's how people plays competitive, try to get tempo with Conflux without Storms (spoiler, you can't)
Yea, when one of the cheapest tier 1 spells literally turn Stormies into a tier 4 creature, that can also cast protecc from air on itself with one-stacks, they are the entire backbone of Conflux in both early, mid, and late game. And they're quite accessible too as you want the mage guild anyways with Confi
@@Real_MisterSir To add to that, not like it's needed, raw Airs in case you have to use them a day or two on some scenarios, are speed 7, like Rocs and Wyverns, the key speed to rush an archer crossing the full screen after a wait command, very very relevant.
Archangel B? They ahve a ress, which you can use on itself via a clone! They will allow you to move first almost every time. Few units are quicker. They ahve great stats! They are a gameender. They are a main objective kind of thing. No way they would ever be B. By the time the building is available, youre already so active on the map, that you should be able to find the resources needed.
You don't even need to clone them. Advanced strats have players putting them in groups of 3 so they can res each other.
@Dennis Coffman Yeah. Forget everything he said at the beginning about unit cost/value, dwelling tax, whatever. Archangels are the Alpha unit in the game. Unless you have enough resources to comfortably find and buy one of the 4 apex dragons repeatedly, you aren't getting any better value than Archangels.
And on a small poor map on impossible difficulty they are F tier. It's all relative to the factors of the map. That's what he should have stated more clearly before ranking the creatures.
@@bosspoke He stated that he was taking multiple factors into account, but never took that niche situation into consideration at all.
@@Eli-uu4vt No he did not. He was taking the unit to cost building path value, that's what he stated in the beginning. But even then it depends on the map, the difficulty, rich/poor map and so on. He wasn't very clear throughout the video; is he judging the creatures based on impossible difficulty or hard difficulty because there would be 2 very different lists just on that factor alone. Same with big map vs small map. Rich map vs poor map. Multiplayer vs single-player.
My impression was that he was basing it off a large map, with minimal to no resources in the beginning (expert or impossible difficulty). And it wasnt clear if he was talking about a rich map or poor map, multiplayer or single player.
But on a large map on impossible difficulty getting archangels vs getting black dragons is fairly similar. While Blackies are clearly better against powerful spellcasters, archangels are overall better otherwise under those conditions.
First video i watch from you, and i was surprised how captivated it kept me until the very end.
Well done sir ! Nice talking and reasoning.
Good editing too. Well, I think i'm gonna watch more of your channel...i'm now curious to know even more about this game.
Take care !
Hey thanks digger! Glad you liked it and if you're new to HoMM3, welcome!
It took me to magi to realize this tier list is a resource less tier list lol. Those guys are amazing. Also I think you underrated the swordsman upgraded
Hey Max! This has come up a lot so I've updated the description to hopefully confuse people a bit less. See as per errata sticky comment, Crusaders are up to A- now, at some point I will do a second edition vid or something like that to tidy up
Comment on wolf raider rating: Tyraxor is a powerful starting hero/main on most maps, except perhaps XL and larger where Crag Hack or Gundula outscale him. Why? First day - upgrade goblins, next day - upgrade wolfies, and u have a powerful starting army for practically no cost (it's stronger and cheaper than birds nest opening). Hobgoblins split into 1-stacks cover the wolfies and take the first retaliation (absorbing the heavy counterattack you referred to in the rating) and then your increased stack of wolfies demolishes whoever dared approach
This strat provides such immense tempo that I'd put golden wolfies no lower than A
Silver Pegasi are actually really good imo for much the same reason that Dragon Flies are: Speed is just such a strong stat. Mages also should obviously be higher when playing on a regular difficulty in which you start with a few resources from the get go; they are a staple unit for Tower.
On the other hand Zombies, Dwarves and Golems and especially Dendroids and Ogres are probably all too high because slow units are such a pain as they affect hero speed on the map. The Storm Elementals too are imo better than this list places them, but only IF you have Bless.
I also agree with the other commenters about the Ancient Behemoths needing to be at least somewhat higher, though i am not a massive Archangel fan like many others here seem to be because i find them cost prohibitive; i actually prefer Angels. Where i will vehemently disagree is the Champions - they definitely deserve to be higher on the tier list than they are in this video, they are easily accessible in circumstances where the precious resources are too scarce to unlock Angels, you just need a bunch of wood for them, and they hit really fast and hard and can take a beating! In addition i would think about demoting the Gold Dragons somewhat, because their upgrade is just too expensive given the fact that they are still vulnerable to the most damaging high level spells. The rest of the list seems about right, i just wish the neutral creatures were included too.
Hey Trans thanks for these and the other comments! Appreciate the depth of thought here and respect those views - you may have seen a fair few others feel the same on Crusaders and Ancients especially
Silver Pegasus means you almost always act first in a battle, which is super important for first spell
What exactly determines who goes first? Whoever has the fastest unit out of their roster?
Units go in order of their speed. When equal, game prioritises the player that didn't move before. Same speed units among a player move in order of army slots.
Love this kind of tier-list videos, and this one was a great pleasure to watch. A bit sad though that you started to accelerate at some point and high-end creatures got much less attention than the first half of units. Anyway, thanks for amazing 2 hours ;)
Hey thanks Mark, great comment! I think I started to tire honestly. It might have been better to do it in two halves :)
@@paulgoes5494 Yeah, I know how that works, done several tier-list videos for another game on my channel as well :) Its not just the tireness but also watching the video length growing makes u feel noone is ever gonna watch a tier-list that long :D But we do watch it, thx again for a great content!
Thanks Mark! I see you're an autochess guy - I am clueless in that area but good luck growing it man
Wolf raiders are also great to attack a creature that already retaliated, that way you get 2 attacks with full strength :)
Yea the general lack of consideration towards general tactics like how you take retaliations prior to hitting with your powerstacks was lacking a fair bit. Or at least, the context wasn't properly explained, as in normal engages you'd always set aside a couple of one-stacks to take retaliations before going in with your Wolf Raiders, Crusaders, etc.
Problem is anything faster than Wolf Raiders will invariably go for them first and kill them before they get an attack off. Or they will allow the caster to just nuke them before they get a go.
It's a pity they are so squishy though. Easy to wipe out. Dwarves on the other hand are little tanks.
Dwarves and golems are good for one thing, and that is town defense. Really cost efficient little buggers.
yeah. I always leave them in capitol.
Thanks for making this video! Can't say I agree with it all but its fun to see other people's opinions. Looks like you've made some other tier list videos I need to go check out!
Thanks tan!
Where I tend to agree with most of all of the creatures rankings, I still have to put Archangels as S-Tier. The 2nd fastest creature in the game, to only Phoenix (Azure Dragons also but those are wild). If you can go first, you have top chance to win, as well as the possibility of movement on the over map if you manage it right. But hey that's just me.
Respect ab! You are not alone - Archangels and Ancient Behes have got the most pushback. In my games I'm either crushing or dying by the time I access AA's and I found them difficult to rank for that reason. My yardstick was how eager I am to rush to the creature which, I'm honestly not (ie "because you can't") say as much as say a Vamp Lord
Well done. Enjoyed the points and reasoning. 👍
Thank you kindly!
Really loved this video i never thgout about the units as much as you did
I’m gonna argue that grand elves are the best too. Because they’re your central power stack for literally the whole game. Black dragons only come in during the late game.
Now, I might be remembering this wrong, but I'm pretty damn certain, that in regards to Skeleton Warriors, if your army slots are all filled up with stacks, and you no regular Skeletons with your Necromancer, but you have a stack of Skeleton Warriors, the Necromancy skill will actually add Skeleton Warriors to that stack after every fight, although it will be at slighter reduced rate to make up for the better stats.
So regarding the Skeleton Warriors, you don't need to be able to go back and upgrade skellies on the regular even if you want the warriors.
Thanks Lord! OMG so I've been playing around this problem that didn't exist all these years! Although I guess it's still a headache in any fight where you lose one of your stacks, the free slot will get filled with basics; this will be the case a lot in early / mid game.
Came to the comments to see if anyone mentioned this. Yeah, the opened slot can be a headache. Fun fact: the artifact that gives you better units works the same. I used to love creating a scenario with that and massing Archliches
True, but if I remember correctly you get significantly less numbers than you would normal skeletons
@@pablolongobardi7240 It is, which I also mentioned above.
I will admit though, that I have no idea what the actual numbers are, as the conditions doesn't really come up all that often. But the difference is definitely noticeable.
The only issue being when you lose a full stack of other units in battle you're now stuck with Skeletons and Skeleton Warriors and need to go back to a town to upgrade. I prefer to keep them as Skeletons.
Hey mate! Great video, exactly what I was looking for to listen to and chill a bit :)
At first I thought (for some reason lol) that you are just a completely casual player (nothing wrong with that ofc) doing their tier list just for fun, but once you started dropping all the stats, resources etc. I realised you know what you were doing.
I love the explanation and various points that you're making, especially regarding the unicorns - they fit rampart's fighting philosophy so well. They are probably the most defensive and ofensive (at the same time) unit. They can protect the elves with their tankiness, 2 hexes, and by blinding enemy flying units that get too close, but at the same time they have good enough speed and damage to stand their ground in the midfield and rush at the enemy's archers if needs be. And the wyverns - the accessibility is a huuuuge thing for them. At first I was shocked you put them in the S tier, but after hearing your thoughts and thinking a about it a bit more, I totally agree with you on this one. The Stronghold birds also have that going for them, which I think you didn't mention, you only need the wolf (raiders/riders?) to unlock this level 5 unit.
There are only just a couple tweaks here and there that I'd do, but I guess it's more of a personal opinion and the format that you play. ALTHOUGH I strongly disagree with where the air/storm elementals and the crusaders are. It bothered me more than it should, hence why I'm writing this all.
Air elementals have 25HP and with haste and/or bless (they do 2-8 dmg) spells they can tank and fight like many 3rd or even 4th lvled units can't. There aren't that many of them, their growth is pretty low, and the mages guild requirement can be annoying, but their usefulness in the conflux's early game is unparalleled to me, same goes for the stormy ones. Thought they'd go to the A tier without question.
And the crusaders. The enemy casting the haste spell on their crusaders and these badbois running through the battlefield, clinking and scrunching, walking up to my units and hitting them 4 times (with positive morale, because why not) remains the most terrifying memory of me playing HoMM3 to this very day. Their dmg output is crazy-too-much-gods-save-me good and with the angels, griffins, and cavalry running about and killing my ranged units, they usually remain the last powerstack when facing castle (and that scares me at lot lol). The crusader upgrade is also more valuable to me than the monks or the cavaliers are. That would have been my top A+++ tier unit here.
Also I hate the walking dead, which are the worst possible unit that I never use and would have had their own worst tier in my tier list.
Regardless, great video! Fun listening to you and your calm voice, cheers :)
Jan that is the most in depth comment I think my channel has ever gotten - thankyou so much!
To address a couple of your points, I had forgotten the fast-lane to Rocs and TBs - but I think it must have been in my subconscious somewhere and glad they made A in video now looking back at it.
I totally understand on Air Ele's , and I too have had my share of Crusader beats! I have a Conflux playthrough I'm just finishing uploading where I found the Air Ele's a tad expensive and 'in need of bless'; also as LE's, my AI opponents kept Lightning Bolting them for bonus dam and my game was revolving around Resurrect (which doesn't work on Eles). So I had some present-moment issues with them! With Crusaders it's more about access to money as I'm so eager to buy up all the griffins, and I find they work better in a big blob - kind of like Vamp Lords. I think I also would usually prefer to go big on Crusaders than rushing to Monks and Cavaliers totally agree on that one.
I fully agree on the magi, theres a reason HotA removed mage tower as a requirement for higher tier dwellings. Tower faction in general feels a lot better in that mod/expansion.
Btw liches would be pronounced like "litches", rhymes with stitches.
I also agree on most everything else. I would place archangels, wolf raiders, master genies, and cavaliers (because of stables in castle biome) slightly higher. And battle dwarves slightly lower.
Great video!
Thanks Erik! Great to get awesome feedback like that, really appreciate it
@@paulgoes5494 Had to search for a comment like this, because oh my gaaawd, how can you not know how to pronounce lich ? Hearing it made me want to jump off a tall building to land on very sharp stakes, with a rope tied around my neck while blasting my brains with a big shotgun out while falling. Lich rhymes with rich, if it helps. There has to be a lot of games and movies where you can hear how it's pronounced. At least warcraft 3, the undead campaign. Oh boy, I have to make a pause now, to cool off, this triggered me so much.
@@Winnetou17 Wow.
@@Winnetou17 maybe time to go outside and get some fresh air?:)
You could say that the creator should ask for a "Lich and subscribe".
Your reasoning on the mages tier is totally understandable. I had that problem just the other day x)
I just realized the Wight is doing an "OK" Sign and the Wraith is doing the Spock from Star Trek hand.
I love that its all reasonable stuff and then Griffin at the fucking A tier, Dendroids above Evil Eyes, Air Elementals below Energy Elementals, Troglodytes below Zombies... I'm going to have to sed your gameplay videos to fully figure out the madness of some of these.
Hi Julius, thanks for the thoughts. You should definitely check out the playthroughs man! As for the rankings, I think First Aid is too high yeah. I do like a bit of Luck and for me Armourer isn't as high a pick as it is for most I think. Griffins did get demoted in the errata with Swordsmen/Crusaders getting a boost.
@@paulgoes5494 Are you planning on playing HotA? I'm looking forward to your impressions of Factory
Hey Julius yes I'm planning some Factory stuff at some point this year. There is one playthrough I've done on here as Necro in HotA mode (pre Factory)
this was a great vid. I found your arguments really interesting and with alot of substance in regard to the creatures. Heroes III is such a great and complexe and epic game that basically if you ask 1000 different great players about a similar ranking you would get 1000 differnet variatons. :) I respect your criteria. I’m still playing it to this day, starting 1999. I really have to add my opinion about 2 units. 1. if you play Castle(impossible, XL map, strong monsters and computers allied against you) , there is not one player i know, and we are talking about truly great players who won’t be excited and will do whatever it takes to upgrade his portal of glory and recruit his archangels. I mean it is the uber unit. And it is special. 2. Mighty Gorgons- Given the fact that the Fortress town a very defensive town is ,the death stare abilty is the one that sets them apart. i get the arguments of costs and everything but i would rank them in the A tier( and if it wasn’t for the Necropolis town maybe even S-Tier, because their abilty gets nullified by the undead creatures). I mean regardless with what town you play there are certain things that get you excited playing that particular setup. Of course you have a lot of intangibles, variations and combinations with all the heroes , and their abilites, secondary skills and son on, but form a standard point of view, these 2 things i mentioned are always offering major excitement when playing those 2 towns. Cheers
Thanks for the thoughts Macrea!!
I have never heard anyone pronounce "Lich" in any of the variations you provided. 😂
I like Magog. I play Cahl often with archery and 3 stacks of gogs. It's for me a good option for have strength the first week in poor maps. In the middle of the game, the Magogs help me to kill my own troops and raise my number of demon. Magogs is good versus other players who use often tactics for protect their archers.
There's a video on TH-cam where a stack of 34 Vampire Lords solos 46 Behemoths with 0 losses. You can literally just win the entire game with a fat stack of Vampire Lords. They are more on the expensive side, but they are worth every penny. By far my favorite unit in the game and, for me, the easiest S+ ever. They alone make Necropolis the best faction in the game, in my opinion.
another point in favour of the sprites and pixies, because you build up such a huge number of them easily if you are careful to not lose too many in battles, if you are lucky with the artifact spawns and get 1 or 2 (or even all 3) of the life artifacts (ring of life, ring of vitality and vial of lifeblood, and its combined artifact the elixir of life), they become insanely strong with all that extra health, i mostly play with the wog mod though where its been rebalanced to give a percental health increase (and doesnt work on undeads) rather than a fixed amount so its not as strong of an artifact-creature combo as in the standard game, but that situation requires the life items which some times doesnt spawn at all in small and medium maps.
getting the statue of legion, elixir of life and the grail as conflux, add some powerful attack and defense artifacts and you will be set for the rest of the game with how powerful your sprite stack will become.
Amazing video, amazing opinions. Glad to see the Grand Elves at the top of the list. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Filet!
I've never played this game, but found you pleasant to listen to and enjoyed your reasoning. If you wanted to make an introduction to the series, I would be among your first viewers!
What a nice comment JR thankyou! I might do that :)
@@paulgoes5494 I saw a (playful!) disagreement with a viewer about which version of homm is best. While I don't have a stance on that part, I do think, based on my experience with other games, that an approachable configuration is often one with little expansion content. That said, maybe in these games they remain fairly accessible, or there are successive changes which make it hard to port those basics over!
Great vid, have you done a faction tier list and would like to hear your thoughts on cove!
Thanks for the support! I'm really only an SoD guy so haven't played much with the Cove. Interesting idea on a factions list!
Excited tier list
Magi are royal pain to come online. Vampires are boss mode mid to late game. I like the advice for Stronghold units.
I was just about to give you a like, but then you put the Grand elf before my beloved Black Dragon... No, I'm kidding I still gave you a like. Great video and list. I think your assessments are on point. Personally I'd move Medusa's higher just because they're ranged and you get 2 good mid-game range units with Dungeon heroes running around which is awesome. Also, Wolf Raiders even though fragile, you can work around their weakness by having another creature attack a big target first and taking the retaliation, then swoop in with the WR's for a solid double attack.
Thanks Dawson for the support and fair points both there! I think you're the only medusa fan that's commented so far (unless we're talking about the Anthrax song, which is just... epic) but there's plenty of others who agree with you on the raiders!
Thank you, very interesting!
31:37 It can be quite a problem if you dont have enough wood arround your starting zone, since the upgrade drains you out of this recource heavily. But it is an investment that can return early on.
Good video, I liked it a lot. Why did you put Tower Tier 2 unit upgrade lower than the standard?
Thanks for the upvote Ps! There are quite a few units that I ranked that way (Cyclops, Lich, Beholder); the test is value for money and excitement factor - how eager am I to get this creature compared to doing something else. With Obsidians, I can wait and use the Stone Gargoyle for quite a long time. Still a great unit of course.
@@paulgoes5494 Ah so that was your factor. I just wanted to be 100% sure that was it. Thank you for clerifying this to me. I'm gonna keep watching your videos as a thanks
Great video! The very first time I got to touch to Heroes was like 20 years ago and it was heroes III demo version (or something like that idk) where you could only play with the Fortress.. This Tier list was awesome to watch, (I watched it in 2 parts) and it was nice to share those same opinions with yours, mostly.. Some I'd totally disagree, but hey it was your opinion and based on the unit value and how excitement the unit really is at the part of the game. Thanks for this really nice and nostalgic video, where i learned a lot of new things, and i would like to see more Heroes III related vids in future. Also would like to know your opinion about Heroes IV and V.. I have only played the IV and honestly didn't like it a lot.. It caused quite a lot of concussion to me cause..... many things what are changed or different.. Anyway great video and big thumbs up from Finland!
Subbed!
Hey thanks for the awesome comment and do check out the channel for my other H3 stuff. As for H4 and 5, I played a little bit of both but gave up after
@@paulgoes5494 Hell yeah bro, I did check your other videos :). Got hooked by your other H3 tierlist videos. So I ask, can you please do an artifact tierlist? Just with the same way like those other lists? And have you tried the -Horn Of Abyss DLC yet? Its unofficial ofc, but I just stumbled on it. It's actually looking really promising. And imo extra content to the game is always welcome if it's executed by certain level. I havent tried it yet, but would like to hear your opinion about it. -Cheers
OOPS, just found that you have played the HOTA🤦♂ that didn't come up with the video title so had no idea. But now have new video to watch :)
Yeah I am very impressed by HotA it is done so well
Great work man!! I love that this wasn't strictly based on power levels alone. This video brought back memories of playing Homm3 with my best friend in HotSeat mode. We did an epic campaign where it was Castle vs Inferno - I was Inferno and got my butt kicked.
Archangels should be in H for HEAVEN because once u get them u rules over the world.
Agreed! They do feel amazing once you have em
@@paulgoes5494 why did you put them so low then???
Well, it's about value for the cash. If I have to go broke buying them, I need them to win the game for me; so compared to a pile of Black Dragons, which one are you more comfortable investing in when your enemy knows Implosion, Armageddon, Blind... Resurrection is a bit like Phoenix thing (if you're relying on it you're already unhappy etc). Maybe they need to be more like B+ but I think that's as high as I can go :)
@@paulgoes5494 spell immune units still have higher value for me. Black dragon is still the best unit for me. Although AA is giga chad and unit rating is high, the only downside for them is spell vulnerability.
@@paulgoes5494 Excuse me, but put archagnels in same line as behemoths and giants.... Behemoths are easy to obtain, but its sux (Ancient Behemoths are great on the other hand)... and giants... giants are worst 7 tier unit in my opinion...
Maybe even if i consider your point about imposion etc... archangel definitely should be at least in A...
I think Minotaurs Kings is a solid A Tier. The more i play with/against them more i realized that those guys are good at any task you give them. The only weak spot i can tell you is that aren't fliers, but decent speed, ALLWAYS good morale, solid HP (for a Tier 5) and they hit like real trucks (they can compete with Tier 6/some Tier 7) makes an overall good unit. No Dungeon player goes out there without them
Thanks Serra! I also never leave home without them myself :)
Archangels are SS+ tier. AA can get u utopia for free, ez battles for side heroes, ez objects taking etc.
They would be the best units in the game if they werent hard to get. Vampire lord upgrade is hard to get the 10/10 gem crystal but if you get it you won the game:)
@@balazsfenyes3880 typicall pvp game ends on 12x or 13x. So vampire lords can`t make any impact. AAs are extremely useful even in small numbers + u can always get them from objects.
@@balazsfenyes3880 Depends on the difficulty. On lower diffs you start with a smattering of resources and the Angel gate requires a small amount of many things. So they are actually easy to get if you dont play on hardest diff compared to many other tier 7.
Wolf raiders are best for going after enemies range units. High speed and double attack with decimate most low level shooters and retaliation wont do much. So, if you can bait melee units forward you can mess up their back line.
The magi and it’s uptier need to swap with beholders
In terms of accessibility you need one of each resource just to get the dwelling and the argument against the expense of magi is justified sure but it is far less difficult than attaining one of each resource so early on
54:00 often when i play solo random maps as necropolis i find it enjoyable to just stack 30-40 vampire lords on a hero and just play with that
Thank you for the effort, sending likes and archlikes! In my oppinion, phoenices are the best (expert fire + earth magic: Armageddon + Resurrect, gg). Also interested in neutral units' placement - not because of peasants hiding in the corner behind you, but because of all the uberdragons and their price/value ratio.
Hey thanks Hans! I might come back and do those at some point
I like hell doggies quite a lot, as you say they are one of the really good units in that town, but I can't agree that they are better than flying units like hags or Rgriffins. When in siege you just can't beat the versatility of flying. Also you forgot to mention Rgriffins' unlimited retaliation and I had many fights where I sent griffins over the walls and watched the defender go and suicide on them.
I played this game as a kid and always lost. Want to play it again as an adult and beat it
Respect Chris!
What an interesting list
iron Golems C+-Dminus category? This is just unfathomable to me, how can we have had such completely different experiences of this game?! I've played SO many medium to large battles in all phases of the game where my iron golem stack saves me, obviously over-performing.
My stier units would include mighty gorgan and the black knight because at some stage in the game, their impact outclasses higher tier creatures with their double damage and death stare abilities. Punches way above their weight class. Also pure tier 7 unit, the ancient behemoth is a sleeper as well, it seems less exciting than the other tier 7s but with a proper amount of attack bonuses through spells and hero upgrades, they tend to just oneshot everything when i play barbarian, also their hp is fhe same thing, 300 scales insanely well with other defense bonuses. Oh and best unit in the game overall imo is vampire lords, I would play necropolis just to rush and stack vampires as the core unit of the army during the early-mid level exploration stage of the game.
Kenneth, excellent thoughts and logic, very little I can argue with. I'm in the middle of a Necro campaign now where I am smack in the mid game paradise of Lords you mention. I also expect I'll care a lot more about Dreads than bone dragons when the time comes! Ancients are a common complaint I get and I think I probably was hard on them. Thanks again!
I personnaly love air elementals, their statblock is insane compared to the other T2 units, and when blessed, their damage is higher than unblessed Grand Elves. They can fly meaning they can kite around in siege contexts. Their backdraw is their high cost and growth
Hey Maxime! Agreed Air Eles are the best of the four I'd say. They don't fly though in the version I play
They can't fly mate (pity given their name but there you go), you might be thinking of the energy elemental
You are right, they don't fly, I probably dream of it in a fever dream. But their statblock is still so huge that they overshadow most of the T3 units which is quite insane
You are right, i got carried away in comparison and mixed some stuff
Ok, so based on this ranking I calculated what castle should have the best army, awarding each unit and its upgrade points based on what tier they are in: +3 for S tier, +2 for A, +1 for B, and going all the way down to -3. Here are the results:
Castle: 7
Rampart: 7
Tower: -1
Dungeon: 6
Necropolis: 0
Inferno: 3
Stronghold: -1
Fortress: 8
Conflux: 3
Note that this ranking is based primarily on consistency: you get 0 points for being on everage in the C tier, so if necropolis have a sum of 0, it means that it's a mixed bag and everything kinda exuals out. On the other hand, Fortress, Castle and Rampart have consistently good creatures, with only a few lackluster ones, which makes it easy for them to score points.
Fortress supremacy confirmed.
Wow Hiram thanks for this! Off the top of my head I would have guessed Castle would win but there it is :) I think if I made all the major changes people wanted, Castle would actually get there as with Crusaders and AAs I get heaps of people objecting on the scores for them. Thanks again!
Hahaa .. Fortress .. hahaha ...
Kudos to you for doing this marathon! The only ranking I would really dispute is Magogs. They are the only ranged unit Inferno has and can pack quite a punch. But I take it you are not playing Horn of the Abyss like me (the ultimate version of the game as far as I am concerned), where you can target ground with the fireball, which indeed makes a world of difference.
Also, I feel Crusaders and Air/Storm elementals are a bit low. Everyone needs oxygen!
Hey Matija, yes I am a SoD man at heart hence those ratings! Several others agree with you on the eles and the crusaders too :)
I don’t know if I ever use cyclops. It’s impossible to come up with 20 crystal and once I get 10 I’m probably going to buy the behemoth lair. For me the stronghold is all about leveraging week 1 or 2 behemoths + thunderbirds and whatever else I can get to capture a better town before the opponent can build up their stacks.
Thanks for the thoughts TN, yeah I think I tend to look for somewhere else to call home with Stronghold as well a bit more than I should I would guess
1:21:30 I'll always have a soft spot for the Cyclopes due to the Cyclops/Tactics glitch in the original game, where you could attack walls with the cyclops during the Tactics phase and destroy all castle defenses before the battle even began.
Ah that is interesting Frank I never knew about that exploit!
Stormelementals are S-tier. You get them early, they work exellent with sprites. Easy to destroy many monsters early game. Late game and vs enemy heroes they are too squishy. Able to beat a large stack of mighty gorgons especially with Grindan. Slow/bless.
I think Ancient behemoths are OP with expert tactics
It's a free mod that adds two extra factions and makes a lot of good balance changes (necromancy at half the %, sprites harder to get, less phoenix growth among others). It has a quite strong multi-player community too (check out other TH-camrs like Lexiav to see what I mean).
Manticore and Scorpicores are awesome. I don't know if I like them better than unicorn / war unicorn but they have the same ability (paralyze or blind) but fly and are faster.
Dungeon is my favorite town because I love utility and in terms of ground units / melee you get two. The rest are ranged (with no melee penalty) and flying.
Conflux is my least favorite in terms of units but you can have a real good synergy with Phoenixes and their tier six + armageddon.
Their tier 1 (pixie) die too quickly in the late game, so if you run up against a magic hero they'll lose like 300 in a single spell strike.
I don't like Inferno, Stronghold (though thunderbird + ogres are awesome), and Conflux. The rest are cool.
I have never done a Pit Lord strategy but know it exists.
Necromancer is probably the best overall but really because of the gameplay incentive it gives to attack as many creatures as you can to build up the skeleton army, and you also get to accept every creature into your army and execute them at the skeleton transformer.
In a week you can easily have 1k skeletons. You need to have air magic and haste, but oncey ou have that, your skeletons can erase entire armies.
Good review
Whenever some Heroes 3 content creator wants to make tier list videos there should always be two types tier lists: one where only stats and special abilities are taken into account, and another where everything is taken into account: stats, abilities, growth per week, price per unit, price of the building, accessibility of the building etc.
Most lists start adding rows to it; and seeing smaller pics was arg really; polish up needed by the "A" pushed to "S" and "E" pushed to "F" just to make it work better for visual. Or the extra rows and with 9 Castles and 7 tiers levels you could also have done based on the Tier make 1 "S" by default of that tier and 1 "F" too.
Grand Elfs ahead of Black Dragons is wow; "S" needed Mighty Gorgons, Magic E's, Arch Angles and Devils; Thunderbrids, Titans and maybe a few more. If added the extra creatures like SharpShooters 100% "S" level. Azure Dragons the most OP Dragon yes not immmune to Implosion like Black Dragons are but the HP and raw power of 1 alone can beat weak armies and mid sized if got the right spells and setup too.
Been playing as late the 90's whenever it came out really as well. I love every Town, if I had to pick 1 Rampart for the Treasury when you can win fights without needing to buy for weeks and pile up wham never run out of Gold. I built a map some years ago exploited gave myself 8 of those and waited with Gold on a map can't lose and found out there is a number limit and when it breaks you get negative Gold too high and and reset Gold back to 0 after billions. Must have played that map all setup from the start skipping 2 game years to find out. Plus the extra movement Hero love now from Rampart.
Still love the game been a couple years since did it last; and even to this day when I get back on for a stint 3-7 maps learning more each time making it a great a game. Maybe this year will get back we'll see.
Thanks for the thoughts Red! Good insights
Can get Angels by the end of week one. Angels and arch angels are both S tier easily
U dont need to keep a slot free with necro for raising skeletons. Instead skeleton warriors will be raised but only at a 66.66% rate of normal skeletons
Quick thoughts going through:
I generally feel like you overvalue the slow tanky units, at least compared to how I play. Zombies, dendroids, dwarves, ogres, iron golems, etc. are units that I really almost never build at all. I think if you didn't take a speed penalty on the field for carrying these it might be a little more valuable, but as it is if you can avoid them it's worth it IMHO.
I think skeletons are probably very close to the top of S tier... possibly right at the top, honestly. On paper they aren't impressive, but if you're willing to give Wyverns S tier for there being serpent fly hives around to bump your numbers, I think it's only fair to consider how many skeletons you can reasonably expect to get and how dangerous they can be as a result. It's not too hard to end up with 200+ of them by the end of the second week, which is enough to punch through even small tier 7 stacks (catastrophic losses, likely, but you can do it).
For stronghold I will almost always go straight through rocs to behemoths so I would probably demote cyclops and ogre pretty hard as they have very steep resource requirements that directly compete with better units (20 wood for ogres is a lot for Stronghold which is a very wood-heavy town; 20 crystal for cyclops is by far the highest of any tier 6 unit and is kind of insane for what you get). Conversely, I'd bump behemoths up to at least A tier for the fact that you can realistically expect to get them much earlier than any other tier 7.
Efreet sultans I would put at at least A tier. They are really the backbone of the whole Inferno army and their armies get a big spike in power once they go online. Pit fiends I would probably put a bit lower... their power is cool but they're super expensive and they are consistently the highest priority target for the AI to go after, so it's really tough to keep a stack of them alive. I don't usually bother with this upgrade.
Mighty gorgons low B tier? Scandalous. They're easily A tier and probably more deserving of S tier than Wyverns, realistically (yes, I know I said I didn't care for slow and tanky, but when you're playing Fortress, you work with what you have since hydras aren't good enough to carry the game for you).
Thanks Aaron for the thoughts!
You did the skeletons dirty, in my opinion, the fact that you can turn any town creatures into skeletons and that by late game you have entire armies of these, being the main bulk force of Necropolis. It's at the very least a B+.
1:35:20 "they don't really have a gimmick, or something going for them to get excited about"
Ancient Behemoth: I cost 3000 gold and one crystal and slay Archangels. What more do you want?
Yeah I just want more, what can I say? I won't always have T7 enemies lining up for you to slay, or a teleport hero ready to unlock you etc etc. But tbf ABs are one of the biggest disagreements on the thread (as in, most would agree with you rather than me)
Fun fact, the three strongest level 8 units at 1v1 are Behemoth > Archangel > Arch devil.
I don't really think you were unfair on the units when giving them their ranks. I would only disagree on some of them but that's really based on our skill levels as I get the impression you know the ins and outs a ton better than myself who plays a much more casual relaxed pace.
Thanks Jared! There's not really a right answer that's what makes it such a great game; I wouldn't call me especially skilled, just been playing it for ages. Even watching it back I'm already regretting being too mean to some of them :)
What about the neutral units like mummies, gold golems, diamond golems and sharpshooters?
Hey Dark, I wanted to focus on things in the game you make choices about, so like skills to pick, spells to cast. With the creatures vid I thought it would be cleaner to just stick to the towns where we take / leave dwellings and creatures
Skeletons are definitely s tier due to the sheer volume of them you get, for free!
Skeletons are s tier, also the Skeletons warriors are reanimate, When you have full slots and Skeletons warriors there. It is smaller ammount than Skeletons but still.
Thanks Tiasir
I've watched the whole thing for nostalgia sake. I was very young when I played the game, so I was kinda always assuming that a higher tier is always better and the upgrade is also always better. Now that I think about it, yeah, there were units I was more excited seen.
Hey James! Thanks for watching man
Me who doesn't play HOMM and never has: Time for a movie length tier list!
😂 did you watch the whole thing? I'm beginning to wonder if there is an accidental ASMR dimension to these vids I've made!
@@paulgoes5494 Alas I ended up dropping out like 40 minutes in because the competition for my attention is a bit too tight for this.
I was a bit confused about how you ranked the skeleton warriors. It's been a long time since I played, but I distinctly remember that if you had full stacks on your army when it came time to raise, and one of those stacks was skeleton warriors, they would raise as skeleton warriors instead of base skeletons. Am I misremembering this? If so your ranking makes sense, but if I'm remembering correctly then it seems like getting to skeleton warriors as soon as possible would be a massive priority for necromancers and thus the warriors should have a much much higher ranking..
Hey Michael yeah you're remembering right; but there is a hiccup if you don't have all 7 slots full and in early game very easy to finish a combat with less than 7. I think there is a community love of necro skill and skeles that I didn't really align with in the vids, but that's part of the process :)
@@paulgoes5494 That is an important consideration. Glad to know I wasn't entirely mistaken on that point.
Green dwarves shall be in G categories. Nothing is more annoying than an armada of dwarves late the the party.
Harpy Hags have interesting mechanics, but lack the stats to back them up. Marksmen deal over 4 times the damage on a ranged attack, which means they're still equal when retaliating. Hags need to pull all sorts of tricks to outperform even Master Gremlins or unupgraded Archers - if it wasn't for those edge cases, they'd be a solid F like their unupgraded version.
Wolf Raiders are a bit squishy, but they hit harder than most tier 6+ units after you draw retaliation with a one-stack or some ogres. I think that deserves more recognition.
Thanks Iranon! I think that's the first downvote for either Harpies or Hags but interesting take. Several others agree with you on raiders, I think I struggle to set up the no-retaliation utopia, there are too many pitfalls especially enemy lightning bolt etc
What about neutral units, not affiliated with any town?
Might do at some stage
In my opinion, these are the rankings of level 1 un-upgraded creatures:
[9.5]. Peasants (No value, they are a meme. Buy heroes 5 peasants instead)
9. Imps ( bad attack, mediocre defense at best, the worst damage for tier 1, bad hp, mediocre speed and surprisingly high cost of 50 makes this worthless aside from early game)
8. Gremlins (very similar to imps, but with 1 less speed, 1 more attack {which i think is more important then speed for level 1} and a cheaper cost of 30 making this a very cheap, but bad creature.)
7. Goblins (it is slightly better gremlins, with better attack but worse defense, 1 more hp and speed, and worth 10 more gold. I would rather have goblins over gremlins but it gets outdone by everything else here)
6. Troglodytes (take a goblin, make it more powerful for 1 less speed, give it an extra ability, and make it slightly more expensive at 50, and you have a troglodyte. It is more worth then a goblin with the extra defense and damage.)
5. Pixies (these are what the gremlins aspire to be. Fastest unit with 7, cost 25 (dirt cheap), you get 20 per week, and absolute pricks. They always are just annoying and i love it.)
4. Gnolls (decent attack, great defense, good hp, good damage, and for a mediocre price? Hos could you hate it? Well you only get 12, tied for the lowest, and with fortress's already insanely high defense, you dont need more defense in them, you need attack.)
3. Skeletons (pretty great stats, and no morale effects, which can be great. However, if you carry another type of unit, these are a detriment. They are also expensive and you only get 12)
2. Pikemen (best hp, best attack, good defense, mediocre damage, eh speed and expensive costs? These are great!)
1. Centaurs ( 2nd best hp, best defense, decent attack, great damage, 2nd best speed for the most expensive level 1 but overall, it is better to have extra units, or better ones, then to have extra money. This is a great deal!)
[0.5]. Halflings (if you can find a placr that reliably sells them, they are great. Archers, good attack, bad defense, decent damage, bad hp and ok speed dosent sound amazing, but then you see it costs 40. 40 for an archer is worth it, especially with the halfling's decent attack and damage.)
Thanks for the thoughts Eyalin!!
@@paulgoes5494 thank you for replying! Please do not comment again as I do not want a "thank you chain". Thanks again😀
Ok
I agree very much with your assessment here. I would put Champions higher.
Thanks Paras! Check out the HotA update I did - Champs got a buff!
Not to be a bother but I was wondering if you knew when your next video would be up. Thanks!
Hey Discreet, I have a massive Necro playthrough all recorded but I still have to do the editing (as in all the kid-related interruptions). I'm also changing jobs so may be a month or so
@@paulgoes5494 okie doke, no rush. Hope the job transition goes well! I recently switched jobs too. Love the videos can’t wait for the next upload!
Power liches are really good value for the gold. They don't have a melee penalty and of course the area effect death cloud.
Hey there thanks for the comment! Agreed they are super awesome, they don't have NMP in the version I play though but still excellent
The Shadow of Death campaign with Sandro was so easy (on impossible) because of these guys. They were meleeing packs of archangels and then you just raise them as liches, it was funny.
I don't know why the Walking Dead aren't in F-tier. They're slow, weak, and are a required prerequisite to almost every other Necropolis unit. You could at least skip on the Dwarves (though their treasury structure is quite useful), but you have to build that useless graveyard to access the Necropolis' more mighty units. Absolutely my least favorite unit in the game.
It seems to me that you have criminally underrated Angels (and Archangels). Fast, strong, always does maximum damage, bonus morale aaaaand they can be farmed from gryphon treasury thing.
oh, and free resurrect
Hey Drarsen you are not alone in that view! It's mainly AAs that I've a got a lot of disagreement on. There were a few creatures / skills I found hard to rate and AAs was one of them :)
personally I'm not sure that pikemen and gnolls are all that much better than gremlins seeing as they are all very slow, but I suppose Pikemen can take some damage for a level 1 unit. Goblins and Familiars are quite good with haste or tactics, although still would only buy them if I had surplus cash. I agree that sprites and master gremlins are deffo the best lvl1 units! M.Gremlins +Golems do make a handy garrison to leave behind at your Wizard tower while the faster troops are travelling with your hero.
Thanks for the thoughts Swan!
Oh man I'm gonna struggle to get through this video and we're only a few T1's in. Centaur captains cross the map to block ranged units to protect your elves, they're also 1 of the better ground units for kiting stuff away from your elves but sometimes their size gets them killed (oops it was only a 1 stack anyway). Skeletons (and warriors) are literally S tier because they're viable the entire game. If your slots are full and you have skeleton warriors then you get warriors, not skeletons, which is useful later when you're out longer and trying to end the map and don't want to be slowed down by having slower skeletons. Sprites are weird, no retal helps prevent bleeding but that also means you can't use 1 stacks to absorb a retal for your stronger melee units. Either way you're not taking sprites later because they've probably been bleeding all game.
Gargoyles are kinda trash, they're like a harpy that feels bad to fight with and the only unit that's worse are zombies. But you also need gargs early, their value is in being able to kite for your gremlins to kill stuff or to cross the map to block ranged. Magogs are like A in hota. No comment on lizard warriors because you've revised, but they're upgraded asap for being such a strong upgrade early especially if you get bless.
I've never understood the fascination with griffins, EVERYTHING kills them, janky build order, the only T3 I like less are wraiths. Iron golems are SO strong, you're not using them much early so they build up and then they're very hard to kill. Oh orc chieftains, so misunderstood and always being underrated by everyone. In a vacuum they are weaker than other T3 (and marksmen/elves) but they are dirt cheap to build, upgrade and buy, cheaper than some T2 units, and they don't bleed like other units because ai loooves killing goblins. Normally I wouldn't factor in heroes but stronghold is kind of an exception because their might heroes pump damage which makes orcs even more relevant. Crag Hack and Shiva are typically the best heroes, but Jabarkas is also really good if you get him some chieftains and protect them with rocs. If they had no melee penalty they would be so good, as if you can't just cut a bitch with the same axe you throw lol.
That's shocking to me that you don't use crusaders, you're too broke to afford them because you're buying garbage ass griffins lol. Absorb retals with halbs, delete stacks with crusaders and marks. I want to argue magi are better.. but god damn it they're so expensive just to get. Very strong ranged unit, so hard to acquire, and master genies turn gremlins into titans basically. Demon's are weird, depending on the map they're either useless or they're your main stack (demon farming op).
Speaking of genies.. you literally never use genies, but master genies are actually just overpowered. Your entire army can consist of (for most fights) a stack of gremlins (or any ranged power stack), maybe 1 other unit to kite or absorb damage, and 5 stacks of master genies pumping every buff in the game onto your ranged unit. You don't like them because you're using them wrong, or because you don't like that tactic which is also fair.
I don't even know what to say about Arch Angels, angels and titans are probably the best upgrades for T7 units and usually you want those as soon as you can once you're in a position to afford expensive stuff. They're the best unit in the game and so easy to abuse because castle heroes have a high chance to get water magic for clone revive abuse shenanigans, but even without clone they're still just so damn good. If it's a poor map it can be hard to get the upgrade, but you can still get angels very early on for only 12 of each resource unless you get really unlucky with resource distribution. I'm pretty sure the cloud temple is only 5k not 10k? Giants are actually extremely cheap to get compared to most other T7, but having to save up resources for the upgrade is harder than most other T7 too.
Hi Doc, at first it read as though you weren't going to watch it and then it looks like you did, so thankyou! I won't cover everything but just to say I think a lot of others agree with you on many points. I'm thinking about doing a second edition of this to take into account HotA, the errata and some areas where I've been persuaded by the community, but I need to get a bit more experience with the factory (and even cove as well if I'm honest) before I do it.
Wolf Raiders are not supposed to attack with a retaliation. They are to attack after a creature's retaliation is used up. Think up the Black Knight's "double strike" or whatever and you have that but with a lower grade creature.
I'm a little unsure what kind of template you are basing the tier list of. Because it really matters for how the list would look depending on the different factors. A game with small map, impossible difficulty, and poor resource-wise is vastly different to a large map, with normal/hard difficulty and rich resource-wise. Which combination of factors are you basing it of? :-)
Hey Jorgen, I play mostly L / XL and always on Impossible
@@paulgoes5494 Then, with those criterias here are the changes in rankings that I would do. All the creatures in caps are the ones I think are far away from where they should be.
Your undervalued units:
- Angels
- Royal griffin
- Titans
- Gold dragons
- Dread knight
- Naga queen
- Minotaur king
- Power lich
- Firebird
- Black knight
- Wyvern monarch (for the same reason wyvern is high up)
- Efreet sultans
- War unicorn
- Evil eye
- ARCH ANGEL
- Centaur captain
- MIGHTY GORGON
- Minotaur
- CRUSADER
- Lizard warrior
- Naga
- Pit lord (A solid B on their own but they also are demon generators)
- DEMONS (Simply because you can farm a huge number of them)
- SKELETONS/SKELETON WARRIOR (They are huge for necro on large/x-large maps)
- HORNED DEMONS (same reason as demons)
- Cyclops king/cyclops
- Wolf raider (yes they are squishy and die fast but if you use them properly and soak the retaliation with another creature first they can hit menacingly hard. Atleast against AI this may be doable)
- STORM ELEMENTAL/AIR ELEMENTAL
- Iron golems
- Greater basilisk
- ANCIENT BEHEMOTH
- Familiar/Imps (because they really are demons, not imps/familiars)
- Silver pegasi
- CHAOS HYDRA (Amazing with teleport and/or speed enhance. Can demolish ranged enemies, no easy way to get rid of them)
- CHAMPIONS (I mean, these are amazing, should be A tier)
- Medusa/medusa queen
- Master genie
- Magi/Arch magi
- Manticore/scorpicore
- Monk/Zealot
- Cavalier (probably B tier)
- HYDRA (Same as their upgraded counterpart)
- Bone dragon
- Wight/wraith (maybe a bit for the mana drain tactic)
- Ghost dragon
- Pegasus
- Genie
Your overvalued units:
- Master gremlin
- Ogre magi
- Gnolls
- Pikemen
- Lizards
- Gnoll maurauder
- Halberdier
- ZOMBIES
- TROGLODYTES/INFERNAL TROGLODYTES
- GOBLINS/HOB GOBLINS (actually worst unit in the game. I mean gremlin suck worse yes, but its atleast good when upgraded)
- Walking dead
- Earth elemental
Thanks for the thoughts Jorgen! It's really cool how I've managed to make a video that so many of you feel strongly enough to take the time to reply and suggest your edits. I might at some point collate everything together and come back and do a 'Community' tier list, I think I will just about have enough data in a month or so at the rate it's going! Thanks again. PS - I overvalued Earth Eles and WD?! Didn't think it was possible! :)
@@paulgoes5494 Haha, yeah they are just so bad and a waste of money unless REALLY rich. They aren't particulary good for defending and they slow down the hero. Maybe magma eles could switch place with earth eles but again; last priority upgrade in conflux.
Lich - Pronounced Lit -ch, similar to ditch or witch. Pretend there is an invisible T in the middle. Don't ask me why. I used to pronounce it incorrectly back in the days as well
Goblin raiders should focus on units that have already retaliated, send in rocs first for example
Can anyone suggest me any maps that I need to play like the devil is in the detail but a little bit easier 😂? Huge maps with lots of artifacts and some storytelling in it.
Hey Jack! You're my number one... but sadly I mostly play random and don't have a good answer for you
Great effort on the video, but i have lot of different opinion.
Sprites are good for the first maybe for the second week, but then they become really weak and so their no retaliation abilty become annoying, for me at least, because i cant use them as one stacks to take the enemys power stack retaliation. But among the tier 1 units they are really one of the best.
I dont like upgraded dragons. Ofcourse because their high speed and magic immunity the golds and blacks are good for armageddon play, but if you cant wipe out most of your opponent troops, then their magic immunity can backfire. Especially because, they cant be res. So in a big fight, i have to be more cautious moving a black dragon deep into the enemy lines than a red, because i cant res or at least buff them and i end up losing more. Then Goldies are more terrible for me because they only immune for lvl 1-4 spells, so the only beneficial spell that you can cast on them is magic mirror and sacrafice and that is not so good, but they are vulnarable the most damaging spell in the game the implosion.
I think the master genies are wonderful. They are very speedy for a lvl5 unit and can fly. But the most amazing thing about them the casting ability. If you have one or two powerstack and 5-6 master genie one stacks they can buff your powerstack stack like crazy also they can kite the enemy around really well with ther high speed and fly.
And the arch angels. Oh man, they are simply the best even if they are expensive. They can res your army even if your hero is a dumb orc. They are super speedy. And always privdes +1 morale so you can mix them up with other faction units so much better.
Great comments Norbert! Your thoughts on the dragons is a very interesting perspective one I haven't heard before, I know there's been plenty of times I which I could bless them etc! You're in good company on Masters and Arch Angels several others thought I was too hard on them. On sprites I found in my last campaign I was able to just walk the early game so easily that they were just unfair; and on Impossible early game is often the toughest phase of the game - take your point that they do drop off quickly.
@@paulgoes5494 You can cast spells on goldies and blacks if you have the orb of vulnerability, but that means your opponent can too.
"I think there exists some mods" -> this "mod" is called Horn of the Abyss, HotA in short... might be you've heard of that before
I am so excited to disagree with you about this list :D
You put Storm Elementals below zombies, really? I mean, Zombies are more accessible but what you gonna do with them? And Ancient Behemoths in D?? Have you ever been slapped by Ancient Behemoths, headed by a well levelled Crag Hack? They're not less accessible than Black Dragons and they will probably win 1v1. I think Monks and Zealots are okay, and Griffins are way to expensive (though I buy them, I buy them last).
You generally ignore the importance of speed when it comes to some of the units. Master Genies are brilliant, though a little expensive, they deserve at least a B, c'mon :) Etc. etc.
Thanks Aleksandar! This is exactly the kind of controversy I was trying to stir up. It seems there is growing consensus that I've been too mean to Stormies and Ancients; that keeps coming up in the comments, also that I love Griffins too much. I think one other guy thought Masters deserved better too. One guy just said the whole list is the worst list ever which is harder for me to do anything with :)