That scene makes no sense when they showed it. But I could believe that it could be a hint of a future story. But it’s odd to add it after all this time
They can add it now since the timeless child confirms the doctor has regenerated far more than we know or he knows. So all the "non cannon doctors" are cannon now, yes even Mr bean haha, curse of evil death is cannon
@@srgdawgface1518 that's a weird reading of The Timeless Children retcon that RTD first suggested in his Time War short story he realised during the 2030 lockdown. I mean, yeah, it's possible, but if it's merely possible it doesn't mean that it's actually a fact. it's not explicitly stated in The Timeless Children or anywhere else that CoFD events have actually happened, so the canoncity (is there a word like that?) is still very questionable.
RTD wants to expand his 'doctorverse' and has said that there are timelines where every doctor bigenerated, so the canon hasn't been so open before, anything can happen. now
@@ZDProds-c8p yeah, didn't he state it in the actual episode? Why wasn't it said that every Doctor bigenerated? Why did he have to make such and important statement in a commentary video? That's incredibly stupid.
Keep in mind, we never saw The War Doctor's regeneration in full, so who's to say he didn't bi-generate, meaning that both Christopher Eccleston and Richard E Grant could both be the "9th" doctor in effect.
I mean, RTD wants to expand his 'doctorverse' and has said that there are timelines where every doctor bigenerated, so the canon hasn't been so open before, anything can happen. now
I believe that can't have happened since the Doctor considered bi-generation to be a myth until it happened in The Giggle so it can't have happened before. But obviously retcons are always a possibility
I’m all for this personally. I love Richard E. Grant and I find the Shalka Doctor to be interesting 🧐 and intriguing. I won’t lie he has messed up the canon a bit but that’s just the norm for Doctor who lol 😂. I’m surprised RTD didn’t try and make Peter Cushing canon but who nose 👃🏻 maybe he still will. I’ve been loving series 14 so far. It’s been a lot of fun and a breath of fresh air for the show. Xx
peter cushing is semi-canon, or at least was intended to be by moffat. in day of the doctor, it was to be revealed that the cushing films were based off books written by ian and barbara when they returned home. didnt happen because of disagreements between the bbc and studiocanal but its still a fun idea to play around with
i liked the shalka doctor to it had some problems but what doctor does not when they first start out if it had just been given a few more story's to find its way it whould of become really great
The Lord President's daughter? That rings a bell. It's something the Doctor was talking about in Boom - "stole the moon and the president's wife" - which was a reference to something said by Missy in Series 9. The Twelfth Doctor clarified in Series 9 that "it was the President's daughter and that he did not steal the moon, he lost it". There just might be truth to this after all
No He’s The Shalka Doctor From the 2003 Minisode “Scream of The Shalka.” Curse Of The Fatal Death is still not canon because it’s a parody of the show So making it canon wouldn’t make any sense 😅
RTD wants to expand his 'doctorverse' and has said that there are timelines where every doctor bigenerated, so the canon hasn't been so open before, anything can happen. now
@@TheWhovinerd-1963technically was this parody canonised by the books who themselves are canonised through big finish which is canon because of the minisode of the 8th doctor in which the doctor referenced multiple companions from his adventures.
@@MegaAlchemist123 No. Curse Of The Fatal Death is still Not canon. As I said it is a parody story for comic relief making fun of the show. Which is who it’s so goofy and over the top. This Doctor we see is confirmed to be the Shalka Doctor from the 2003 story Scream of The Shalka. The Shalka Doctor was originally intended to be the the canonical Ninth Doctor. However RTD said that he hated the story and he didn’t enjoy Richard E. Grants Performance. Now In 2024 he’s changed his mind and made it canon… xx
Maybe when the Great Intelligence threw Dr Simmeon into the Doctor's timeline, it caused the Shalka Doctor fragmentation. The GI sought to end the Doctor at every conceivable point in their timeline, and perhaps that includes in previously aborted canon? All fun to theorise about 😊 Richard E Grant is one prolific Doctor Who actor, having played the 10th Doctor in The Curse of Fatal Death, the 9th in Scream of the Shalka and Dr Simmeon / the Great Intelligence in the revival. Love to see him getting some appreciation he deserves.
I still think he can be the 9th Dr... or at least one of them. I can't remember which ones, but towards the end of the 8th Dr novel line it's hinted a couple of times that there may be 3 seperate versions of 9. They don't ever go onto detail with the idea and are very vague about it. Personally in my head cannon, the 3 9s are War, Shalka and the Atkinson Dr.
I'm just saying the great intelligence did enter The Doctor's time stream, and began rewriting his past, but also it was the Doctor's entire time stream so he was also rewriting his future. Whose to say there's not some lingering remnants, and perhaps the great intelligence in a way became the Valeyard. Maybe this is why we don't know where this Doctor comes from because it's from a rewritten timeline we haven't properly seen yet.
I think possibly the so called 'Shalka' Doctor is actually one of the Doctor's pre-Hartnell faces. It makes no sense in canon otherwise as Christopher Eccleston was the 9th Doctor and many events such as teaming up with the Master and locking him up when he was doing something else at the time, plus the fact he WENT BACK to Gallifrey makes NO sense. Instead, Richard E Grant would have to be a different Doctor that was forgotten from a few regenerations before that. However, if I were the writers, the actor, Grant works a lot better in a villainous role, so the Master or Valeyard would work EXTREMELY well. There is one other option: The Great Intelligence - since Grant also played him. What if it's hinting the return of the Great Intelligence?
Richard E Grant is also another character in the Whoinverse The Great Intelligence is not impossible to say that both versions are interlocked in the timelines of the Doctors' history and the images were particularly interlaced into the doctors' memories. Of course, there's an unknown mysterious figure inside the history of the doctor's past as a young Gallifrian what the first doctor looked like as a teenager guess he might have been a rogueish teenager. His youth has never been made canons. It would at some point be interesting to do a flashback in a Doctor Who episode to a younger doctor revealing some unusual truths and possibly his family to and perhaps his very first adventure on Earth before the Unearthly Child episode. Called Unexpected Journeys.
tbh I haven't liked this season thus far however, as a massive scream of the shalka fan seeing the shalka doctor be made canon although left up to the fans imagination on how he fits into the timeline has made watching this season 100% worth it to me. It's also given me some excitement that we may see him in the future.
So you think the season is bad why? And one cameo changes your whole opinion lol, so far this season is way better than season 1 in 2005, we actually have a companion who's not horny for the doctor 24/7
I'm wondering if it has something to do with the Toymaker and making a jigsaw of perhaps the Doctor's history, because that's the only way to explain that and the fugitive Doctor who had a police box Tardis before the 1st Doctor and his granddaughter stole it. That the Toymaker "made" the Doctor into the Timeless Child which made his personal timeline go from lunar to scribble-like. That the 8th Doctor regenerated twice because of two timelines of the same reality that are connected. That the William Hartnell Doctor is who he was born as while having other selves before him and perhaps make Peter Cushing canon who had two adventures that were similar to William Hartnell because of again two timelines of the same reality that are connected. Like let's say if someone put the 15th Doctor into a machine that reads one's timeline and the reading makes no sense, that this is where the Doctor realize he's no longer lunar and starts to question his newly discovered origin. That he's still the daft old man who stole a magic box, but also the Timeless Child, as well as what the Peter Cushing Doctor origin was. Like bigeneration, this was also considered impossible and brings forth a theory that it was an outside force.
In the 2005 novel the Gallifrey Chronicles there is talk of there being three Ninth Doctors, meaning at the time it was an attempt to canonise Rowan Atkinson and Richard E Grant but I think it was just meant to be a bit of fun it didn’t explain it fully
It could be that REG is an alternate Ninth Doctor from a different timeline. We now know that there are alternate timelines in which certain Doctors didn't regenerate at a certain time and were allowed to grow older than they originally did. There could be alternate timelines with alternate Doctors...
I really hope that Richard E. Grant might go on to play the Valeyard at some point in the future of the show. After all, his character the Great Intelligence was also the only one mentioning the Valeyard in all of NuWho if I'm not mistaken.
I think this Doctor should've been the War Doctor. His personality would've been perfect for it and E. Grant actually played the Doctor between McGann and Eccleston and was a scrapped 9th Doctor. McGann (1996), E. Grant (2003), Eccleston (2005) etc no offense to Hurt who was never a series lead. And of course Derek Jacobi was the Master like he was in Utopia. So there you go it actually fits the timeline and franchise
Yeah, I think you're wrong. It isn't the Scream of the Shalka Doctor. It's 'The Curse of Fatal Death', Doctor. Otherwise, it screws up the old regeneration cycle. I think it was Moffat who said CoFD is canon (but not canon) because it happened along an alternate timeline. Ironically, it also means the first incarnation of the female Doctor was actually Joanna Lumley, both She and Whitaker are both the 13th incarnation. This is my head canon, btw, just for a laugh, but creepily makes too much sense, not to mention.
making the shalka doctor conon has rtd just tossed any idea of the shows conon making a basic logic out the window how does it fit in he says he is the 9th and he knows the master so he cant be from pre hartnell sigh conon maters in a show like this
@@FrostyScarf okay it had some holes you can't make a show for 60 years with out a few poping up heck i just finished watching the show's 20th season and they put 30 seconds of the first episode pointing out that the conon already had a hole in it but atleast they were trying to smoof it out now they are just making more
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated okay it had some holes you can't make a show for 60 years with out a few poping up heck i just finished watching the show's 20th season and they put 30 seconds of the first episode pointing out that the conon already had a hole in it but atleast they were trying to smoof it out now they are just making more
@@roslyntrotter5025 ok… yes? As a big Star Trek fan, I’m well aware that 60 years of continuity leads to holes, I was just making a silly joke about “logic” being associated with Star Trek. Live long, and prosper 🖖
According to an Instagram post by Paul Cornell, the Shalka Doctor is most likely from an alternate universe
I can see that, plus I come with the idea that Richard E. Grants appaerence in this scene is just an alternate timeless doctor we never met or saw.
That scene makes no sense when they showed it. But I could believe that it could be a hint of a future story. But it’s odd to add it after all this time
They can add it now since the timeless child confirms the doctor has regenerated far more than we know or he knows. So all the "non cannon doctors" are cannon now, yes even Mr bean haha, curse of evil death is cannon
@@srgdawgface1518 that's a weird reading of The Timeless Children retcon that RTD first suggested in his Time War short story he realised during the 2030 lockdown. I mean, yeah, it's possible, but if it's merely possible it doesn't mean that it's actually a fact. it's not explicitly stated in The Timeless Children or anywhere else that CoFD events have actually happened, so the canoncity (is there a word like that?) is still very questionable.
@@srgdawgface1518 Everything you said makes sense so you said it well.
RTD wants to expand his 'doctorverse' and has said that there are timelines where every doctor bigenerated, so the canon hasn't been so open before, anything can happen. now
@@ZDProds-c8p yeah, didn't he state it in the actual episode? Why wasn't it said that every Doctor bigenerated? Why did he have to make such and important statement in a commentary video? That's incredibly stupid.
Keep in mind, we never saw The War Doctor's regeneration in full, so who's to say he didn't bi-generate, meaning that both Christopher Eccleston and Richard E Grant could both be the "9th" doctor in effect.
Yeah if you can make anything make sense if you retcon it can’t you
I mean, RTD wants to expand his 'doctorverse' and has said that there are timelines where every doctor bigenerated, so the canon hasn't been so open before, anything can happen. now
I believe that can't have happened since the Doctor considered bi-generation to be a myth until it happened in The Giggle so it can't have happened before.
But obviously retcons are always a possibility
@@ZestieeeI mean, he has purposefully forgotten the War Doctor, why not this one as well? Trauma response and all that
@Zestieee yeah that makes sense, but (especially with sci-fi) you can easily retcon things with mind-wipes and such things
I’m all for this personally.
I love Richard E. Grant and I find the Shalka Doctor to be interesting 🧐 and intriguing.
I won’t lie he has messed up the canon a bit but that’s just the norm for Doctor who lol 😂.
I’m surprised RTD didn’t try and make Peter Cushing canon but who nose 👃🏻 maybe he still will.
I’ve been loving series 14 so far. It’s been a lot of fun and a breath of fresh air for the show. Xx
peter cushing is semi-canon, or at least was intended to be by moffat. in day of the doctor, it was to be revealed that the cushing films were based off books written by ian and barbara when they returned home. didnt happen because of disagreements between the bbc and studiocanal but its still a fun idea to play around with
i liked the shalka doctor to it had some problems but what doctor does not when they first start out if it had just been given a few more story's to find its way it whould of become really great
The Lord President's daughter?
That rings a bell. It's something the Doctor was talking about in Boom - "stole the moon and the president's wife" - which was a reference to something said by Missy in Series 9.
The Twelfth Doctor clarified in Series 9 that "it was the President's daughter and that he did not steal the moon, he lost it".
There just might be truth to this after all
Curse of Fatal Death canonised finally!
No
He’s The Shalka Doctor
From the 2003 Minisode “Scream of The Shalka.”
Curse Of The Fatal Death is still not canon because it’s a parody of the show
So making it canon wouldn’t make any sense 😅
I want Hugh grant as the doctor
RTD wants to expand his 'doctorverse' and has said that there are timelines where every doctor bigenerated, so the canon hasn't been so open before, anything can happen. now
@@TheWhovinerd-1963technically was this parody canonised by the books who themselves are canonised through big finish which is canon because of the minisode of the 8th doctor in which the doctor referenced multiple companions from his adventures.
@@MegaAlchemist123 No. Curse Of The Fatal Death is still Not canon.
As I said it is a parody story for comic relief making fun of the show. Which is who it’s so goofy and over the top.
This Doctor we see is confirmed to be the Shalka Doctor from the 2003 story Scream of The Shalka.
The Shalka Doctor was originally intended to be the the canonical Ninth Doctor. However RTD said that he hated the story and he didn’t enjoy Richard E. Grants Performance.
Now In 2024 he’s changed his mind and made it canon… xx
Maybe when the Great Intelligence threw Dr Simmeon into the Doctor's timeline, it caused the Shalka Doctor fragmentation. The GI sought to end the Doctor at every conceivable point in their timeline, and perhaps that includes in previously aborted canon? All fun to theorise about 😊
Richard E Grant is one prolific Doctor Who actor, having played the 10th Doctor in The Curse of Fatal Death, the 9th in Scream of the Shalka and Dr Simmeon / the Great Intelligence in the revival. Love to see him getting some appreciation he deserves.
For me he comes after Paul Mcgann but in a timeline where the time war didn’t happen, it’s still the Doctor but just not from our time line
I still think he can be the 9th Dr... or at least one of them.
I can't remember which ones, but towards the end of the 8th Dr novel line it's hinted a couple of times that there may be 3 seperate versions of 9. They don't ever go onto detail with the idea and are very vague about it.
Personally in my head cannon, the 3 9s are War, Shalka and the Atkinson Dr.
I'm just saying the great intelligence did enter The Doctor's time stream, and began rewriting his past, but also it was the Doctor's entire time stream so he was also rewriting his future. Whose to say there's not some lingering remnants, and perhaps the great intelligence in a way became the Valeyard. Maybe this is why we don't know where this Doctor comes from because it's from a rewritten timeline we haven't properly seen yet.
I think Richard E Grant is going to fit in as a Pre-First Doctor incarnation. It would be a cool bit of retrofitting
I think possibly the so called 'Shalka' Doctor is actually one of the Doctor's pre-Hartnell faces. It makes no sense in canon otherwise as Christopher Eccleston was the 9th Doctor and many events such as teaming up with the Master and locking him up when he was doing something else at the time, plus the fact he WENT BACK to Gallifrey makes NO sense. Instead, Richard E Grant would have to be a different Doctor that was forgotten from a few regenerations before that. However, if I were the writers, the actor, Grant works a lot better in a villainous role, so the Master or Valeyard would work EXTREMELY well. There is one other option: The Great Intelligence - since Grant also played him. What if it's hinting the return of the Great Intelligence?
I sincerely hope he is going to play the Valeyard at some point
Richard E Grant is also another character in the Whoinverse The Great Intelligence is not impossible to say that both versions are interlocked in the timelines of the Doctors' history and the images were particularly interlaced into the doctors' memories. Of course, there's an unknown mysterious figure inside the history of the doctor's past as a young Gallifrian what the first doctor looked like as a teenager guess he might have been a rogueish teenager. His youth has never been made canons. It would at some point be interesting to do a flashback in a Doctor Who episode to a younger doctor revealing some unusual truths and possibly his family to and perhaps his very first adventure on Earth before the Unearthly Child episode. Called Unexpected Journeys.
tbh I haven't liked this season thus far however, as a massive scream of the shalka fan seeing the shalka doctor be made canon although left up to the fans imagination on how he fits into the timeline has made watching this season 100% worth it to me. It's also given me some excitement that we may see him in the future.
So you think the season is bad why? And one cameo changes your whole opinion lol, so far this season is way better than season 1 in 2005, we actually have a companion who's not horny for the doctor 24/7
I think is better that the whole Chibnall era.
Better than season 1 in 2005? Not even close. Nauru Gatwa is a joke compared to Eccleston
@@LeviPennington-vv2kq
And they both kissed a handsome man on the lips.
I'm wondering if it has something to do with the Toymaker and making a jigsaw of perhaps the Doctor's history, because that's the only way to explain that and the fugitive Doctor who had a police box Tardis before the 1st Doctor and his granddaughter stole it. That the Toymaker "made" the Doctor into the Timeless Child which made his personal timeline go from lunar to scribble-like. That the 8th Doctor regenerated twice because of two timelines of the same reality that are connected. That the William Hartnell Doctor is who he was born as while having other selves before him and perhaps make Peter Cushing canon who had two adventures that were similar to William Hartnell because of again two timelines of the same reality that are connected. Like let's say if someone put the 15th Doctor into a machine that reads one's timeline and the reading makes no sense, that this is where the Doctor realize he's no longer lunar and starts to question his newly discovered origin. That he's still the daft old man who stole a magic box, but also the Timeless Child, as well as what the Peter Cushing Doctor origin was. Like bigeneration, this was also considered impossible and brings forth a theory that it was an outside force.
In the 2005 novel the Gallifrey Chronicles there is talk of there being three Ninth Doctors, meaning at the time it was an attempt to canonise Rowan Atkinson and Richard E Grant but I think it was just meant to be a bit of fun it didn’t explain it fully
It could be that REG is an alternate Ninth Doctor from a different timeline. We now know that there are alternate timelines in which certain Doctors didn't regenerate at a certain time and were allowed to grow older than they originally did. There could be alternate timelines with alternate Doctors...
I really hope that Richard E. Grant might go on to play the Valeyard at some point in the future of the show. After all, his character the Great Intelligence was also the only one mentioning the Valeyard in all of NuWho if I'm not mistaken.
The great intelligence jumped into the Doctor’s timestream. Then what the toymaker said about they had donr to the Dictor’s timeline
I'll tell you who the Shalka Doctor is.... CANON!!!
I think this Doctor should've been the War Doctor. His personality would've been perfect for it and E. Grant actually played the Doctor between McGann and Eccleston and was a scrapped 9th Doctor. McGann (1996), E. Grant (2003), Eccleston (2005) etc no offense to Hurt who was never a series lead. And of course Derek Jacobi was the Master like he was in Utopia. So there you go it actually fits the timeline and franchise
Yo saamuel just uploaded :)
Yeah, I think you're wrong. It isn't the Scream of the Shalka Doctor. It's 'The Curse of Fatal Death', Doctor. Otherwise, it screws up the old regeneration cycle. I think it was Moffat who said CoFD is canon (but not canon) because it happened along an alternate timeline. Ironically, it also means the first incarnation of the female Doctor was actually Joanna Lumley, both She and Whitaker are both the 13th incarnation. This is my head canon, btw, just for a laugh, but creepily makes too much sense, not to mention.
All you need know. The Toymaker did it.
Maybe Davies is just giving Chris the finger.
Time should answer that at some point.
It could just be that someone on the digital team wanted to put in an Easter egg.
Maybe this version of the 9th Doctor is just from a time stream where the time war didn’t happen
All retcons and preretcons are true, remember? it could literally be anything.
making the shalka doctor conon has rtd just tossed any idea of the shows conon making a basic logic out the window how does it fit in he says he is the 9th and he knows the master so he cant be from pre hartnell sigh conon maters in a show like this
"conon maters in a show like this", tell me you've never watched Doctor Who without telling me you've never watched Doctor Who ☠
Wrong sci-fi franchise for logic. That’s copyright Star Trek!
@@FrostyScarf okay it had some holes you can't make a show for 60 years with out a few poping up heck i just finished watching the show's 20th season and they put 30 seconds of the first episode pointing out that the conon already had a hole in it but atleast they were trying to smoof it out now they are just making more
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated okay it had some holes you can't make a show for 60 years with out a few poping up heck i just finished watching the show's 20th season and they put 30 seconds of the first episode pointing out that the conon already had a hole in it but atleast they were trying to smoof it out now they are just making more
@@roslyntrotter5025 ok… yes? As a big Star Trek fan, I’m well aware that 60 years of continuity leads to holes, I was just making a silly joke about “logic” being associated with Star Trek. Live long, and prosper 🖖
Could this be hinting at a future spinoff??