@@DittoGTI 10.5 is code for when the 10th Doctor regenerated into himself, using his severed hand as a receptacle for his regeneration energy -- the event which ultimately lead to he metacrisis
One problem I have with the 14th doctor, can you imagine him sitting back and thinking, nah someone else will sort this when all hell breaks loose on earth lol
Same. Donna even says that Fifteen is older than Fourteen. I imagine that bigeneration just adds a little loopdeeloop into the Doctor's timeline with the entry and exit point being what we see during The Giggle.
14th and 15th lifelines could be linked and when 15th regenerates 14th dies of natural causes and his body breaks down into regeneration energy and travels threw time and space to the 15th
DOCTOR: It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for. (The Doctor points to a ghostly white figure, that walks forward.) ADRIC: The Watcher. (The Watcher merges with the Doctor.) NYSSA: He was the Doctor all the time. Bigenerated Doctor would become the Watcher and his TARDIS would go to Trenzalore to finish the loop.
He could very well restart torchwood for a new era remember it was shut down after what what happened he could bring it back online for a whole new generation maybe bring in capt jack or give another the reigns to be team leader and have jack as a consultant to bridge old and new such as when Kate took command of unit
After the video discussed the possibility of the bi-generation being book-ended by a merge - and the later mention of the Curator - it occurred to me that there has already _been_ a merge-regeneration, just as you mention. The Watcher merged with the Fourth Doctor to regenerate into the Fifth Doctor. And just as you quoted Nyssa, the Watcher somehow _was_ The Doctor. It would be interesting if somehow Fourteen became The Watcher, and traveled back to merge with Four, in some way enabling the later possibility of bi-generation. It's a crazy idea. But they've done crazier.
I like this idea the best. Like Bi-generated timelords can regenerate but have a limited lifespan, unlike the Doctor. So Fourteen lives out his life getting old with Donna and her family, then travels back in time to regenerate into the curators and continues his healing journey backwards until at the end of his life he merges with Five as the Watcher
The biggest "elephant in the room" in the last series for me was that 14 and Donna were apparently amongst those wiped off the face of the planet by Sutekh... and seemingly didn't do anything to prevent the destruction of humanity.
Tbh, knowing how many universe ending catastrophes Donna has missed, I love the idea of Donna, 14 and the rest of the family besides Rose, I'd like to think they would leave in the TARDIS at the same moment Suetek returns, only to return when everything ends and react in shock when Rose tells them about Suetek returns, David doing his classic "what, What!, WHAT!"
In 14’s “defence” he might have been at his home watching the broadcast and then got wiped out by the dust of death only bought back when 15 beat sutekh
Unless 14 was the stranger who talked to the "spoon-lady" about how diseases were taking backwards through generations, but she couldn't quite remember him when talking to 15.
I like to imagine that 14th with the same mentality as the digital copy of the doctor in 10x06 - Extremis, to quote him: "I'm doing what everybody does when the world is in danger, I'm calling the doctor" So i just imagine 14th trusting 15th entirely to resolve everything because yk he's The Doctor
2:40 Technically, the 14th Doctor has always worked for Unit. Kate pointed out that The Doctor is on the Payroll. Even if Donna dies, he has Rose, he wouldn’t be alone
The funny thing is that the theories about 14th becoming (in no particular order) the Valeyard and the Curator, and then going to Trenzalore, are not mutually exclusive.
What If 14 IS the Watcher? Hear me out... When he's ready, 14 goes back as the Watcher and merges with the 4th Doctor, and just stays dormant in the back of his mind until the Bigeneration, where he comes back out again as the 15th. But Sutekh, who's already attached to the TARDIS at this point, has seen a future version of the Doctor come along so he knows he can't wipe out all life until this Doctor splits off, and holds off on making his move until then. Does that sound plausible at all? It was just an idea that occurred to me
I actually like the idea of that. It would explain some things about Bigeneration and the Watchers in general. Like they have to merge with themselves eventually BUT not with the current successor.
I was hoping 15 would absorb him at the end of the 60th 😂 But if he has to stay…then set rules…like can he age now..? Can he regenerate..? How long will he live..? Why is not helping 15 when the world is ending?
I think the fourteenth is the curator cause think of what the curator said “and you may find yourself revisiting a few old ones but just the old favourites”
@@kattybent so that means 14 can regenerate..? But it is implied that he is one if not the last version of the Doctor…so of course they would know they would regenerate back into 10 plus if 14 can regenerate…then how many does he have..? Could we be see a story where the 15th Doctor meets a different 15th Doctor..?
I prefer 14 still becoming 15 down the line in his life. Likr 14 is on his death bed looking like an old man, with his friends around him, then his final words are "I'm ready to go now" as he dies and his body starts turning into regeneration energy, which then disappear into the air, which is actually the energy traveling back to Unit Tower in The Giggle, where the energy creates 15, with 15 confused, since he remembers just dying and now randomly coming out of his own body in the past (and 15's Tardis is just 14's from during his death). And honestly, I could see a little DW special made about this in like 20 years, similar to Night of the Doctor with the 8th Doctor.
I feel like the most obvious and the easiest answer is to pull from established canon from the original run of the show and the 14th doctor would end up being the Watcher for the 15th doctor in his last episode. They would combine and then bring on the next doctor.
I think I like the idea of 14 becoming the curator in some way. It would give him a way to still contribute and not just sitting about in Donna’s house
Clara created a multiverse splintered timeline when she stopped Bill's First Doctor from following Susan into the one TARDIS, urging him to take the one she was leaning on! In one timeline, he ignores her and settles in 1963 London/ In another, he becomes David Bradley's First Doctor and eventually the Fugitive Doctor after Two is forced to regenerate!
The curator theory is the most logical to me as he said to 11 that he'd revisit the 'old favourites' like come on if that isn't proof enough then what is. Although....... A regeneration that dragged 14 back in time into the 15th Dr does sound appealing.
I think 14 eventually regenerates into 15 who during the regeneration is pulled by the time vortex to the point where the bigeneration happens. The 15ths tardis also traveled and was momentarily in the same time space as 14’s until the mallet hit. So yeah Suhtek is on 14’s tardis. Ominous sound.
If you think about it, there are actually 3 versions of Tenet's Doctor out there in the Whoniverse. Bring back Romana. I think she would be a welcome addition and considering regeneration, anyone can play her at this point.
The Curator could also become a spin-off series. An anthology of stories based around old alien artefacts. Each week, the doctor presents the opening and then leads into a story. Yes, it's similar to other programmes I've seen, but this is The Doctor. Stories from all of time and space in the Whoniverse? I'm there!
@@justynmatlock8873 My first thought was Rod Serling's "Night Gallery". In a similar vein, there were several "one off" comic stories printed in (maybe the 70s, certainly by the 80s) in which Tom's Doctor introduced a story focusing upon a particular recurring monster species (Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, etc.). The narratives normally concluded with the Doctor noting how their hubris was their undoing, a wee moral lesson if you will.
If someone where to become the Valeyard, I'd want it to be the Shalka Doctor. A lot of his actions in Scream of the Shalka are very reminiscent of the Valeyard.
It should be the 10th Doctor, as he had no problem destroying the Sycorax! This is the start of the Doctor's darker personality after bigeneration with the Tenant & Gatwa Doctors now becoming the good & bad aspects of the Doctor's personality. The 14th Doctor will become the Valeyard eventually! The Gatwa Doctor is still closely linked with the Jo Martin Doctor & more likely the good aspects of the Doctor. Martin, Tenant & Gatwa are now separate Time Lords, as the Black Scrolls of Rassilon state that a Time Lord is a new Time Lord if given a new regeneration cycle!
@MichaelJones-ni5pb it's a cool theory, but there are a few parts I disagree with. Firstly, Harriet Jones and Torchwood destroyed the Sycorax, not the 10th Doctor who strongly opposed their actions, leading to Harriet Jones being forced out of office. I'd argue 10's darker personality started in the Waters of Mars, which lead to the whole Timelord Victorious story arc culminating in Day of the Doctor and the End of Time. Secondly, I don't think that when the Doctor bi-generated, that the good and bad aspects of his personality split, I feel it was to allow the 14th Doctor to retire and process his feelings of all that had come before with the help of Donna and her family. To me, the Shalka Doctor makes the most sense, because we don't know which number incarnation he is, meaning that he could come later in the timeline of the show, being a culmination of all the future incarnations of the Doctor's dark feelings. Those are just my thoughts.
Davies should get Tennant and Tom Baker to get a scene where the 14th Doctor regenerates into yet another "old beloved face" *TODAY.* And then, a long scene with a nice voiceover of the Curator, with him living a quiet life but also rethinking a lot of his life choices, being sad and alone. Lastly, a scene (that he can use at any time in the future) where the Curator finally regenerates into a younger man who eventually will be the Valeyard.
Tennant and Tom Baker teamed up in the Big Finish audio drama "Out of Time", which takes place before the 10th's final story and after Sarah Jane left the 4th.
@@adisakditantimedh331 Ok... and? 🤨 I'm talking about the 14th Doctor regenerating into the Curator who later regenerates into the Valeyard, here. And I'm talking about doing so while Tom Baker is still in the condition to do it.
Head canon: There comes a point when 14 realizes that he’s fully healed mentally and is ready to become 15. He informs the Nobles, then leaves a set of instructions for them to follow so that no one becomes confused as a result. He says goodbye to them all, then vanishes in a flash of regeneration energy. Donna then finds a large mallet, with which she hits 14’s Tardis like a croquet ball, causing the Tardis to fly in one direction and disappear, to reappear as 15’s Tardis at the time of the Giggle.
I have the feeling that healing will take much longer. 14 will probably outlive even Rose and her children, if she has any. My own theory of what I would like to happen is that once 14 outlives all the Nobles, he will go and spend time with the Paternoster gang, specifically with a widowed Madame Vastra. He still owes her a huge favor for the time they spent taking care of him after the parting of the Ponds. Plus, Vastra is the one person who can empathize with being a seemingly immortal being who outlives their mortal loved ones. Imagine 14 and Vastra solving mysteries in Victorian London!
1. I like the idea that the 14th Dr. just fades Yoda like. Mainly because he’s “died” more than any other Dr. That’s gotta be traumatic. 2. My personal favorite is that he becomes the curator! Mainly because that’s his real life father in law. It’s just absolutely perfect.
Sorry to point out the obvious flaw in your reasoning, but Tom Baker is the curator and Peter Davison is David Tennant's father-in-law. Or did The Curator regenerate when I wasn't looking?
All of these theories would make for some incredible comic book storylines, and in my opinion that's the best place to continue 14's story without undermining 15.
You left out the Cushing Doctor (MY First Doctor!), but my own personal theory is that is who the Meta/10.2/Handy Doctor becomes. The deleted scene of Donna giving him a TARDIS seed is still canon, and this is what he uses to "relive" some early adventures with his granddaughters. and one's boyfriend. and a policeman named Tom. (Who says that Pete's world is on the same timeframe as the main Whoniverse? We only saw a few bits and pieces of it. Mostly the Beach.)
If Star Trek can create a detailed explanation for why some Klingons in Kirk's time had the embarrassing absence of forehead ridges, Doctor Who's creative force can figure out how to bring Number 14, River Song and the Fugitive Doctor (as portrayed by Jo Martin) back into the most amazing TARDIS adventure of all time. We first met River when she encountered 14 (as 10), so it will provide balance to the universe. If they need help, I'll free up some time.
If The Curator is a future incarnation of The Doctor, 11 would have no memory of their conversation (and Clara was already in The TARDIS). They had just finished reminding the audience that when multiple incarnations of the same Timelord encounter themselves, only the oldest one present can retain their memory. The younger incarnations forget.
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Yeah, that's the explanation for why the previous episodes featuring the younger self(selves) of the doctor didn't acknowledge the events in the multi doctor crossover event.. With the curator the tables are turned, though; doctors 11 onwards may easily retain memories of the curator, since it took place in a TV story that has been aired in real life...
Every multi-doctor episode has happened in a TV Story that aired in real life. But within the TV universe itself - **IF** The Curator is a future incarnation of The Doctor then 11 shouldn't be able to remember his encounter with him. And, the conversation happened in private (from the perspective of the characters), so there was no one there that might be able to remind him later (Doctor Who is fuzzier as to the Companions who are not crossing their own timeline and whether or not they are capable of retaining memories - think Sarah Jane Smith in The Five Doctors , 3 crossed his own future timeline, she did not).
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@@KyleWitten the timeline rules are indeed fuzzy, what I wanted to say is that when a multi doctor event happens, the earlier incarnations' lack of knowledge of the events (or the consequences thereof) is explained as the doctors having crossed their timeline and therefore not able to remember... That's also the case for the sole multi master story I can think of, and in that Missy even made a remark that alluded to the fact ("long time ago a very scary woman pushed me against the wall and told me to always, always carry a spare dematerialization circuit") whereas in real life, if, for instance, a full season of episodes were produced with the multi-timelord story being a part of it, the other episodes could've been produced with the event (which would conveniently be placed in the finale) in mind, the earlier episodes might have alluded to the event and the timelord in question wouldn't have to suffer from amnesia 😁. The problem with the multi timelord stories that aired so far (the only classic series multi-doctor story I have seen so far is the three doctors, and admittedly I haven't understood the plot properly, coming to that in a minute...) the "incumbent" doctor encountered with a version of himself, stories of whom were produced at least years (if not decades) ago with a totally different team, and with no intention to put their version of the doctor against a future incarnation (heck, during William Hartnell era, different versions of the doctor wasn't even a thing!) About the 3 doctors: the way I understood the story (I watched it without subtitles, so I may have missed/misunderstood some plot points) the first doctor wasn't even in his proper timeline; he seemed to me as a manifestation of that incarnation (he appeared only on a monitor, against a black background afaicr), similar to what Chibnall made with the edge of consciousness decades later.
I think 14 needs to somehow re-connect with 15, so that 15 is actually as carefree as he says he is. Because right now he is not really stable, he is over emotional and that often let's him freeze instead of finding a solution. And that is so because his soul was literally split into as he says in Maestro. Do to have a whole competent Doctor again, something must happen between 15 and 14. Personally I would love a touch between them, where 14 gives the rest of his regeneration energie and with it his healed state of mind to 15, and then öives on as a mortal and dies of old age. While 15 stops being a cry baby, gets his wits back and still knowes how to habe fun and show feelings.
I like the idea of a Valiard Doctor . The idea that he could outlive anyone and the fact that 10/14 are so afraid of death that could drive him into a dark place . A quick regeneration scene later we have a darker version of the War Doctor , witch is very scary .
If i ever got to be show runner of Doctor who, I would go on a retcon journey 1. I would introduce a standard weeping angel and then explain that someone scanned a dead angel statue and then figured out how to turn regular statues into angels. and all anomalies like images becoming angels is a science experiment. 2. all older variations of dead doctors are just images created by the Tardis, even the curator of the museum and the 14th doctor. This will explain why his clothes changed when Jodie left the role. He was just Ncuti Gatwa the whole time, but the Tardis made him look like David Tennant to help him deal with trauma. The bi-generation came about because the giggle laser disrupted the Tardis's effect and finally the real doctor emerged while the Tardis image split off and continued walking around (like a robot created by the Tardis's matter creating matrix globes from Journey to the center of the Tardis) 3. There is no timeless child because the doctor is in fact himself from the future. The child discovered at the portal is actually a variation of the doctor that fell through at the end of the universe and therefor he is a timelord because timelords used him as the template to create him. Look up bootstrap or Grandfather paradox if someone complains I am just making the changes I want to see, i will remind them that every show runner before did the same thing and the next show runner can just change it back if they really need/want to.
Technically, between the Doctor's 12th and final. Jesse Deyl is the 7th incarnation, so 5 more regenerations after him is the 12th, so anyone between that and the final. Which mean any Doctor can be the Valeyard And with Bi-generated, lots of duplicates
What if.... After 20 to 30 years living with the Nobles as the "Cool Uncle" he decides that he's ready. He doesn't want to become something they grow to resent as they all get older and, eventually, die. He has a goodbye celebration with them, hops into his TARDIS and pops off the find The Doctor. Ncuti greats him warmly with a knowing smile as Tennant says, "Thank you for that. I'm ready now. It's time." They embrace, regeneration energy engulfs Tennant and returns home to Ncuti.
Maybe it's just me but 14 could easily go save River out of the Library. He just needs some of the Flesh stuff that the 11th Doctor ran into that would copy someone's brainwaves.
That is an interesting idea. Maybe Big Finish will do that as my understanding is that the showrunner is against bringing River back. But it's one heck of a story idea.
"Tardis, except Sutekh we assume", damn my brain just explodes. I totally forgot the Tardis got cloned before Sutekh reveal. Would be quite a plot twist if Sutekh is not actually done yet and the reason for his easy-ish defeat was that they have more planned for him, being in the other Tardis aswell.
SPOILERS (potentially) A while back, before Tennant was announced to return as the 14th Doctor there was this leak that told us he was coming back. Not only him, but Donna as well, as part of a short stint on DW. As a part of that leak they also mentioned the storyline in which current 15th Doctor regenerates at the end of Season 2 (Season :')) into the Valeyard. Then Ruby has to go to Earth's future to fetch a new 15th Doctor Tenant's remaining 14th regenerated into to stop the Valeyard. But I'd take it with. a grain (more of a boulder) of salt: there was no mention of a second companion at the time, mrs Flood or the Pantheon, so who knows they might've changed their plans, or the entire thing might've been a very veeeeeery lucky guess.
For the sake of my sanity, fourteen becomes fifteen (he already did, after all), and the bi-generated Doctors become mortal, at the point they originally regenerated, and live out the remainder of a normal Time Lord life span. So they age, albeit slowly, and can die from misadventure. Which explains why some Doctors seem to disappear over time (due to the passing of the actors, IRL). Cheers,
If the BBC is smart.. the 14th doctor is a bookmark for doctor who as a brand. The moment 15 stepped up disney stepped up with him.. now if this partnership goes south.. and disney being Disney burns the ship as they sink it.. having 14 be available to do a brand "reboot" and have the 15s "life" get deleted from time (canon) then having a unbranded pure BBC doctor to "start anew" would be a brilliant move.. a new level of preparedness unseen by a brand to date.
I dont think 14 will have to merge back into 15. I think it will be more timey wimey, akin to the fact that 1 had a grandaughter named Susan because some Doctor at some point yet to be divulged will have kids one of whom parents Susan. So 14 succeeds in therapy and it effects are felt by 15 and the Doctors going forward because they're all connected psychically and temporally. My pick revolves around the Curator. The fit is just too neat. I think 14 will be the one revisiting old faces, as part of his journey to heal himself, and eventually he ends up working as the Curator. It's just a nice way to tie off both dangling ends from the two anniversary specials.
*They could have a whole new canonical series featuring him and unit, which could help to tie in any loose plot holes, like him marrying River Song and beyond, since she experienced her meetings with him in a more backwards timey wimey order!!*
10:30 maybe that's the ultimate twist to patch up the timeless child. Both bi-generation halves are functionally equal and regenerate into someone else. It happened before. It happened before a lot. All Time Lords are actually The Doctor. Gallifreyans didn't reverse engineer regeneration from him, they multiplied him again and again until he became their new ruling class.
I originally meant that as a joke but you know what, if they went that way I'd nod and say yeah it makes more sense than a lot of other canon stuff… deals with the rumors of him being Omega, deals with The Valeyard, and it would be cool if The Master was a fork of The Doctor who learned a bit too much and went cuckoo. Well I say cuckoo, really more like a more psycho variety of cuckoo than the one who stole a TARDIS.
number nine is calling me.. think about it. how cool would it be for the valeyard to show up in some sort of big reveal, and for him to say: "It seems I'm.. victorious" like that would be SO STUPID and SO AMAZING LIKE AAA
Nine, number 9, number 9, number 9 I've missed all of that It makes me a few days late Compared with, like, wow! And weird stuff like that Taking our sides sometimes Floral bark Rouge doctors have brought this specimen I have nobody's short-cuts, ah-ah
Fourteen's "rehab" can contribute to Fifteen's "sense of self" w/out having to merge into him somehow. Since they are still the same person, both existing simultaneously (without some sort of weird timeline folding as in the multi-doctor stories) they are still *psychically* connected on a deep, subconscious level, so Fourteen's can contribute to Fifteen that way.
I hated it to, so with you friend. A pointless troupe that was RTD at his worst and series 1 got no better. And no I won't 'deal with it' it's crap and will continue too be so, so you YOU deal with that
Interesting video! Enjoyed it. Side note - I can’t help but focus on your sound panels in the background. Some of them are a bit crooked and don’t quite cover the wall in between the panels. My weird brain can’t help but focus on the cracks between the panels. Kind of like the 11th Doctor and the cracks in time and space. 🤣
Out-there fan prediction: he’ll have a limited 3-4 part spin-off involving some mystery that takes him away during the events of season one’s finale, probably a significantly more adult and darker look at the whoniverse where he’ll have to deal with something from his past when he was the tenth doctor, the trauma of his past as the doctor as a whole, and an encounter with a not too distant future incarnation of himself as the Valeyard with the face of Matt Smith, all of which will probably result in him regenerating on a cliff-hanger 😜
if they do. do a spinoff with Tennant back as 14 do it during the off season when the current show isn't running. currently we have no dr who content it would be great for a spinoff to be on disney + right now times like these after the first season of regular who but before the xmas special
In my opinion theory 5 fixes the timeless child (as in makes 1, 1 again and not a mystery number). In my head it plays out as the war doctor's alternate life post time-war working for Gallifrey, and eventually creating the organisation that the other doctor from 13's run in our universe works for, and maybe after nearing the end of that regeneration cycle used his new organisation to steal an endless cycle of regeneratons and fled into a new universe. However, because he wasn't given the regenerations the regeneration he underwent effectively just made him a new person, but the organisation he created thought it was only temporary and ,for lack of better words, groomed him into the doctor of war again, going from universe to universe acting as a sort of mercenary force for every gallifrey they find, and destroying universes they deem unfit.
I quite like the sound of 14 becoming the Valeyard. Especially if you take into account the death of Wilf (RIP), it could then be the catalyst that slowly starts his turn towards the bitter half.
If you don’t want a Fourteen and Donna spin off to tread on the toes of the main show due to their popularity. It may be prudent to do a movie every so often, especially as Tennant always seems to be filming something so scheduling an ongoing series could be tricky.
fun fact, Paul Mcgann's doctor did regenerate in the Shalka doctor and Rowan Atkinson (or at least it is shown through a time window in an eda i think called The Tomorrows Windows, along with additional 9th doctors), in the novelization for Doctor Who and the Time War that rtd wrote that doesnt feature the war doctor and instead covers the Paul Mcgann doctor as the one who fought in the time war and pressed the button causing himself to regenerate into Eccleston's 9th doctor (which is also reference in the same eda as the other 9th doctors)
In future episodes that involve unit, they should have a lookalike, or Tenant himself, just in the background doing desk work. No lines or interaction. Just in the back of the shot. He briefly looks up then goes back to paperwork
12:55 my theory (that I just came up with) is that 14 and his TARDIS is the one on Trenzalore and he DID die in a battle among millions, the reason that in The name of the Doctor the great intelligence and clara and the Doctor didnt see 12 13 and 14 is because it intentionally didnt show them also, the reason 14 fixing himself affected 15 even though he died died is because of timey-wimey spacey-wacey shenanigans
I like the idea that 14 would just shirk all responsibility like his previous incarnations and embark on a carefree journey through time and space as usual and avoid any contact with his twin self. You know, just be the Doctor. It might fill in all those off screen adventures that secondary characters occasionally allude to, especially during Matt Smith's run.
I think it would be fun if they had a series with the 14th Doctor traveling with Donna again. Then, maybe, they could somehow become separated, and the Doctor could get help trying to find her. Maybe he could get some help from a time traveling archeologist, who we already know was surprised when she realized that the Doctor who looked like the 10th Doctor didn't know who she was, and was actually the youngest version of him that she had met. You just have to make sure she never actually sees Donna, and there would be no plot holes.
the idea that he regenerates into another doctor and that each bigeneration regenerating into a new encarnation would explain the fugitive doctor, maybe 14 becomes the fugitive doctor
personally, idk what i think like 14 going through therapy and then dispersing into artron energy that gets pulled through space and time and snaps back to the giggle to become 15 would make sense to me, each bigenerated doctor becoming a version of the curator would also make a ton of sense but like what/where is the line between the doctor being a bigenerated doctor vs being the curator? i could also see 14 sending his tardis to trenzalore just idk how i feel cause like doesnt 14's tardis still have sutekh so like sutekh on trenzalore kinda really diminishes sutekh from being all powerful (however i could see 14 thinking hes sending his tardis to close a loop without realizing that hes also sending sutekh who could be the reason the doctor fails the first time)
I think because of bigeneration, especially because of the whole timeless child infinite regenerations thing, we will discover that in reality, 14 eventually becomes the war doctor but because of an unknown side effect of bigeneration long term, he had forgotten one of his old lives, the life as 13, and thus doesn't remember. It also explains why 13 doesn't understand how this was her own timeline, because 13 was actually seeing one of her timelines, the timeline from one of her bigenerations, which she'd have no idea about since technically as of being 13 she could have gone one either timeline, she's at a converging point before her timeline divides in two upon 14 and 15 bigenerating from each other. It's technically the doctor's timeline, but we were never told which timeline of the doctor. Because that's where it gets tricky is she's technically in both timelines before the divergence through bigeneration, so she very well could have become war doctor down the line in the 14 bigeneration timeline. And even farther down that same line, war doctor eventually does regenerate into the valyard. Or a different idea. Since the master technically was the doctor temporarily, he could have traces of the doctor left in him, and because of that he eventually becomes the valyard, and the time lords got it wrong since the valyard was the darkest parts of the doctor, literally born from all the bad parts the master would presumably potentially have got when being sent back into his own body. And at that point, it could be the master is actually the valyard down the line, technically still being the worst parts of the doctor as he might eventually just lose his master self entirely since we don't know the long term effects of what the master did either
One you missed... as 14 he gets older, everyone has gone, at some point his energy is needed to help along a Doctor's regeneration, for example, The Watcher... or perhaps 14 is needed to complete 15's regeneration, either way, he sacrifices himself in good old, Doctor Style...
If we accept that bigeneration means that all the old Doctors are still around, the logical answer to the Curator question is that he *is* the older Fourth Doctor. As unsatisfactory as it may seem, the “fade away like Yoda” option seems the most logical to me; when the Fourteenth Doctor’s time comes, he’ll vanish and be drawn back to the moment when he becomes Fifteen.
Honestly, the only explanation that makes any sense at all to me is that 14 lives a good, long and chilled out life before - at the moment of his death - coalescing into a ball of pure Artron energy and hurtling back in time - memories intact - to the moment of his bigeneration: 15 is fine because 14 healed himself. This makes dramatic and emotional sense and also reinforces a causal link between 14s “retirement” and 15s renewed energy for life
I like to think he just lives alongside the nobles as the always travelling uncle but eventually decides to join both his tardis and himself to 15 and his tardis
Here's my own idea. Once 14th reaches the end of his lifespan, after being with Donna and her family, he regenerates into the Curator, then once the Curator himself reaches the end of his lifespan, he becomes the Watcher, add some weird timey wimey bs, and he merges with the dying 4th Doctor, Tom Baker, becoming the 5th Doctor Peter Davidson. It's a weird idea but I like the idea of making things full circle where 14th was split up from 15th, only for him to be merged again with his former incarnation, and also explaining who the Watcher is.
In an effort to provide some relevance in this comment (see below), I would suggest a 14/Donna series doesn't even need to be a full series of the show. It can be a mini-series, even a once or twice a year special. We can have Ncuti doing the usual Christmas specials, bring in 14/Donna for the New year, or at other times like the 2008-2010 specials. We may become spoiled as an audience and go to bed with very fully fandom bellies each night, but I would be willing to put up with the metaphorical heartburn. :P The only problem I can see with the idea of 14 regenerating into someone new that isn't Ncuti is that it would undermine the effect of the 14 healing himself. 15 wouldn't be able to benefit from that healing if 14 becomes someone else, though as we know Time Lords are all psychically connected anyway, there could be that flow on effect, making this whole comment utterly pointless. :D :D
I think 14 was to become 15 eventually but the Toymaker screwed up something and caused it to happen differently which is why hes confused in giggle. 14 eventually regenerates and ends up back at Giggle possibly losing some memories to maintain the timeline
Head canon: 14 regenerates a few times and eventually becomes the Valeyard. I'd love to see a season where the Valeyard is played by the same actor as the current Doctor. You could have him framing the Doctor for various crimes before the season finale.
I think that 14 will eventually snuff it but as a multi-doctor special and that he'll either merge back with 15 as a joint regeneration to get to 16, or his regeneration energy will be transferred back to 15
I like that he either merges back with 15 (maybe becoming The Valeyard before hand), or he grows old and dies. I hate Russel's idea that every doctor bigenerated, it makes no sense whatsoever. He's got to merge back with 15 at some point, otherwise everything 15 said to him in The Giggle doesn't make sense. On the other hand, it would be cool if he became the Curator, and just kept reusing of his old faces, including 6 and 4. The problem with that is that I don't think it would work well with him merging back with 15, which he needs to do in my opinion. P.S. No version of the Doctor is heading to Trenzalore anymore, the end of Time of the Doctor rewrote those events. The battle the doctor was meant to die in was the Siege of Trenzalore, but when Clara convinced the Time Lords to give the Doctor his new regeneration cycle, that changed time, meaning the Doctor no longer dies on Trenzalore.
To me the 14th Doctor is just the 10th. It would have been a great opportunity in the hands of a competent writer to have 14 in a different outfit and with Tennant's own accent. As it is, he uses the 10th Doctor's accent, wears an outfit very similar and goes straight to 10's companion. Tennant is a good actor but he just hams it up. Donna had a tragic but beautiful ending with the wonderful coda that she won the lottery. Now we are meant to believe that she gave it all away because the Doctor was kind and a vague memory of kindness made her give it all away. She was so kind she forced her husband to now work all the hours as a cabbie. It's also never properly explained why 13 regenerated into a past self.
I would Love to see The Doctor (David Tennant) return as a Villian! We know D.T. can act evil! But I'd enjoy it only if, at the end, we find out it wasn't really "14" but a clone, imitation, disguise. (The Master? "UnMask to reveal Michelle Gomez Please!) As always, thank you so very much for the videos. Also I'd like to see River Song encounter 14 (before she me Tennant's Doctor in The Library) which would explain why she didn't know they were meeting for the first time.
A grounded dramady of 14 adjusting to life on earth while no longer a timelord. A fish out of water story. But he still can make the odd trip in the Tardis. Maybe the clone tardis does not fully work correctly.
My favorites revolve around the Curator. I feel like it's fitting if either A) there has been a bi-generation every time (or that bi-generation was retroactive), but that one half of the bi-generation is mortal, meaning that every version of the doctor has had the opportunity to retire and grow old and die (not really supported by the on screen dialogue), or B) fourteen is NOT mortal, and continues to regenerate, but gets to "revisit" old faces. B is the one I like the most. It still leaves only the retired Doctor and the fifteen-and-counting Doctor as "active", but fourteen could re-dub himself the Curator and go traveling through time, curating history and letting the Doctor be the one to have adventures.
Check out our latest Fourteenth Doctor theory here! th-cam.com/video/E11U8DDJMxY/w-d-xo.html
Fun fact: using only established Doctors, David Tennant could make a 3 Doctors special with only him as the Doctor(s)
5 doctor special. 10th doctor, 10.5, meta-crisis, 14th and John Smith from family of blood.
Haha! XD
@@hades4134John Smith is a human, not the Doctor. He doesn't know he's a Doctor, and is anatomically a human. And also, who is 10.5?
@@DittoGTI10.5 is David Tennant between _Journey's End_ and _The End of Time._
@@DittoGTI 10.5 is code for when the 10th Doctor regenerated into himself, using his severed hand as a receptacle for his regeneration energy -- the event which ultimately lead to he metacrisis
One problem I have with the 14th doctor, can you imagine him sitting back and thinking, nah someone else will sort this when all hell breaks loose on earth lol
Maybe he has a big red snooze button in the TARDIS that reminds 15 or another of his future selves about the emergency.
He's FAR too busy learning Sylvia's tuna madras recipe
@@strodey123 The TARDIS can be stubborn, so she isn’t going to take him into damage, so the danger would have to happen when he was there
Fully on board with Fourteen regenerating into Fifteen, makes the most sense to me.
Same. Donna even says that Fifteen is older than Fourteen.
I imagine that bigeneration just adds a little loopdeeloop into the Doctor's timeline with the entry and exit point being what we see during The Giggle.
14th and 15th lifelines could be linked and when 15th regenerates 14th dies of natural causes and his body breaks down into regeneration energy and travels threw time and space to the 15th
DOCTOR: It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for.
(The Doctor points to a ghostly white figure, that walks forward.)
ADRIC: The Watcher.
(The Watcher merges with the Doctor.)
NYSSA: He was the Doctor all the time.
Bigenerated Doctor would become the Watcher and his TARDIS would go to Trenzalore to finish the loop.
Esso también pensé, se me habla quedado la parte de la TARDIS.
He could very well restart torchwood for a new era remember it was shut down after what what happened he could bring it back online for a whole new generation maybe bring in capt jack or give another the reigns to be team leader and have jack as a consultant to bridge old and new such as when Kate took command of unit
After the video discussed the possibility of the bi-generation being book-ended by a merge - and the later mention of the Curator - it occurred to me that there has already _been_ a merge-regeneration, just as you mention. The Watcher merged with the Fourth Doctor to regenerate into the Fifth Doctor. And just as you quoted Nyssa, the Watcher somehow _was_ The Doctor. It would be interesting if somehow Fourteen became The Watcher, and traveled back to merge with Four, in some way enabling the later possibility of bi-generation.
It's a crazy idea. But they've done crazier.
I like this idea the best. Like Bi-generated timelords can regenerate but have a limited lifespan, unlike the Doctor. So Fourteen lives out his life getting old with Donna and her family, then travels back in time to regenerate into the curators and continues his healing journey backwards until at the end of his life he merges with Five as the Watcher
I really like the theory that he goes back and becomes The Watcher
The biggest "elephant in the room" in the last series for me was that 14 and Donna were apparently amongst those wiped off the face of the planet by Sutekh... and seemingly didn't do anything to prevent the destruction of humanity.
Tbh, knowing how many universe ending catastrophes Donna has missed, I love the idea of Donna, 14 and the rest of the family besides Rose, I'd like to think they would leave in the TARDIS at the same moment Suetek returns, only to return when everything ends and react in shock when Rose tells them about Suetek returns, David doing his classic "what, What!, WHAT!"
In 14’s “defence” he might have been at his home watching the broadcast and then got wiped out by the dust of death only bought back when 15 beat sutekh
Unless 14 was the stranger who talked to the "spoon-lady" about how diseases were taking backwards through generations, but she couldn't quite remember him when talking to 15.
Was sutekh hanging on to both TARDIS's?
I like to imagine that 14th with the same mentality as the digital copy of the doctor in 10x06 - Extremis, to quote him: "I'm doing what everybody does when the world is in danger, I'm calling the doctor"
So i just imagine 14th trusting 15th entirely to resolve everything because yk he's The Doctor
I would love to see a special were Mel takes 14 and Donna to a former companion support meeting
2:40 Technically, the 14th Doctor has always worked for Unit. Kate pointed out that The Doctor is on the Payroll. Even if Donna dies, he has Rose, he wouldn’t be alone
Isn't Rose still on an alternate Earth?
Martha?
I think they meant Donna’s daughter Rose.
@@kiritoswords6479
Wait… to which "Rose" are you referring? Rose Tyler or Rose Noble-Temple?
@@thomashrubecky1663 my mistake. I forgot about Donna's daughter.
The funny thing is that the theories about 14th becoming (in no particular order) the Valeyard and the Curator, and then going to Trenzalore, are not mutually exclusive.
Yup! That's why we mentioned in the intro that a few of these theories could happen, some of them work in tandem.
Watching Tennant in Jessica Jones sold me in wanting to see him, specifically, return as the Valeyard.
I think it will be very similar to the what happened with the watcher. The 15th is dying and the 14th merges into the 15th to create the 16th
What If 14 IS the Watcher?
Hear me out...
When he's ready, 14 goes back as the Watcher and merges with the 4th Doctor, and just stays dormant in the back of his mind until the Bigeneration, where he comes back out again as the 15th. But Sutekh, who's already attached to the TARDIS at this point, has seen a future version of the Doctor come along so he knows he can't wipe out all life until this Doctor splits off, and holds off on making his move until then.
Does that sound plausible at all? It was just an idea that occurred to me
I actually like the idea of that. It would explain some things about Bigeneration and the Watchers in general. Like they have to merge with themselves eventually BUT not with the current successor.
@@andco53 I think it does.
What do YOU think will happen to the Fourteenth Doctor?
I was hoping 15 would absorb him at the end of the 60th 😂
But if he has to stay…then set rules…like can he age now..? Can he regenerate..? How long will he live..? Why is not helping 15 when the world is ending?
I think the fourteenth is the curator cause think of what the curator said “and you may find yourself revisiting a few old ones but just the old favourites”
@@kattybent so that means 14 can regenerate..? But it is implied that he is one if not the last version of the Doctor…so of course they would know they would regenerate back into 10 plus if 14 can regenerate…then how many does he have..? Could we be see a story where the 15th Doctor meets a different 15th Doctor..?
Maybe through some time wimey nonsense 14 regenerate in to the fugitive doctor and that's why 13 didn't recognise her
The 3rd was Sent to Earth at the start of the 1970's Doctor Who not the 80's
I prefer 14 still becoming 15 down the line in his life.
Likr 14 is on his death bed looking like an old man, with his friends around him, then his final words are "I'm ready to go now" as he dies and his body starts turning into regeneration energy, which then disappear into the air, which is actually the energy traveling back to Unit Tower in The Giggle, where the energy creates 15, with 15 confused, since he remembers just dying and now randomly coming out of his own body in the past (and 15's Tardis is just 14's from during his death).
And honestly, I could see a little DW special made about this in like 20 years, similar to Night of the Doctor with the 8th Doctor.
I feel like the most obvious and the easiest answer is to pull from established canon from the original run of the show and the 14th doctor would end up being the Watcher for the 15th doctor in his last episode. They would combine and then bring on the next doctor.
I think I like the idea of 14 becoming the curator in some way. It would give him a way to still contribute and not just sitting about in Donna’s house
Returns to Gallifrey gets bored again and leaves as the Fugitive Doctor. Explains her police box TARDIS and why the 13th did not remember being her.
The fugitive doctor didn't remember being the 13th doctor either.
@@DoctorMysterio15 Because 13 is the fugitive's future
Clara created a multiverse splintered timeline when she stopped Bill's First Doctor from following Susan into the one TARDIS, urging him to take the one she was leaning on! In one timeline, he ignores her and settles in 1963 London/ In another, he becomes David Bradley's First Doctor and eventually the Fugitive Doctor after Two is forced to regenerate!
The curator theory is the most logical to me as he said to 11 that he'd revisit the 'old favourites' like come on if that isn't proof enough then what is.
Although....... A regeneration that dragged 14 back in time into the 15th Dr does sound appealing.
The Curator might be a product of bi-generation. Retcon.
Tennant may be A Curator, but Tom Baker is THE Curator; the definite article! ;)
I think 14 eventually regenerates into 15 who during the regeneration is pulled by the time vortex to the point where the bigeneration happens. The 15ths tardis also traveled and was momentarily in the same time space as 14’s until the mallet hit. So yeah Suhtek is on 14’s tardis. Ominous sound.
If you think about it, there are actually 3 versions of Tenet's Doctor out there in the Whoniverse. Bring back Romana. I think she would be a welcome addition and considering regeneration, anyone can play her at this point.
The Curator could also become a spin-off series. An anthology of stories based around old alien artefacts. Each week, the doctor presents the opening and then leads into a story. Yes, it's similar to other programmes I've seen, but this is The Doctor. Stories from all of time and space in the Whoniverse? I'm there!
That sounds very reminicent of, 'The Book Tower', which Tom Baker presented from 1979 to '81.
@@justynmatlock8873 My first thought was Rod Serling's "Night Gallery". In a similar vein, there were several "one off" comic stories printed in (maybe the 70s, certainly by the 80s) in which Tom's Doctor introduced a story focusing upon a particular recurring monster species (Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, etc.). The narratives normally concluded with the Doctor noting how their hubris was their undoing, a wee moral lesson if you will.
If someone where to become the Valeyard, I'd want it to be the Shalka Doctor. A lot of his actions in Scream of the Shalka are very reminiscent of the Valeyard.
It should be the 10th Doctor, as he had no problem destroying the Sycorax! This is the start of the Doctor's darker personality after bigeneration with the Tenant & Gatwa Doctors now becoming the good & bad aspects of the Doctor's personality. The 14th Doctor will become the Valeyard eventually! The Gatwa Doctor is still closely linked with the Jo Martin Doctor & more likely the good aspects of the Doctor. Martin, Tenant & Gatwa are now separate Time Lords, as the Black Scrolls of Rassilon state that a Time Lord is a new Time Lord if given a new regeneration cycle!
@MichaelJones-ni5pb it's a cool theory, but there are a few parts I disagree with. Firstly, Harriet Jones and Torchwood destroyed the Sycorax, not the 10th Doctor who strongly opposed their actions, leading to Harriet Jones being forced out of office. I'd argue 10's darker personality started in the Waters of Mars, which lead to the whole Timelord Victorious story arc culminating in Day of the Doctor and the End of Time. Secondly, I don't think that when the Doctor bi-generated, that the good and bad aspects of his personality split, I feel it was to allow the 14th Doctor to retire and process his feelings of all that had come before with the help of Donna and her family. To me, the Shalka Doctor makes the most sense, because we don't know which number incarnation he is, meaning that he could come later in the timeline of the show, being a culmination of all the future incarnations of the Doctor's dark feelings. Those are just my thoughts.
Davies should get Tennant and Tom Baker to get a scene where the 14th Doctor regenerates into yet another "old beloved face" *TODAY.*
And then, a long scene with a nice voiceover of the Curator, with him living a quiet life but also rethinking a lot of his life choices, being sad and alone.
Lastly, a scene (that he can use at any time in the future) where the Curator finally regenerates into a younger man who eventually will be the Valeyard.
Tennant and Tom Baker teamed up in the Big Finish audio drama "Out of Time", which takes place before the 10th's final story and after Sarah Jane left the 4th.
@@adisakditantimedh331
Ok... and? 🤨
I'm talking about the 14th Doctor regenerating into the Curator who later regenerates into the Valeyard, here.
And I'm talking about doing so while Tom Baker is still in the condition to do it.
Head canon: There comes a point when 14 realizes that he’s fully healed mentally and is ready to become 15. He informs the Nobles, then leaves a set of instructions for them to follow so that no one becomes confused as a result.
He says goodbye to them all, then vanishes in a flash of regeneration energy. Donna then finds a large mallet, with which she hits 14’s Tardis like a croquet ball, causing the Tardis to fly in one direction and disappear, to reappear as 15’s Tardis at the time of the Giggle.
I absolutely LOVE THIS. New head cannon! Especially the part about the Tardis. RTD did say the Tardis 15 has is still the original so this tracks.
I have the feeling that healing will take much longer. 14 will probably outlive even Rose and her children, if she has any. My own theory of what I would like to happen is that once 14 outlives all the Nobles, he will go and spend time with the Paternoster gang, specifically with a widowed Madame Vastra. He still owes her a huge favor for the time they spent taking care of him after the parting of the Ponds. Plus, Vastra is the one person who can empathize with being a seemingly immortal being who outlives their mortal loved ones. Imagine 14 and Vastra solving mysteries in Victorian London!
1. I like the idea that the 14th Dr. just fades Yoda like. Mainly because he’s “died” more than any other Dr. That’s gotta be traumatic. 2. My personal favorite is that he becomes the curator! Mainly because that’s his real life father in law. It’s just absolutely perfect.
Sorry to point out the obvious flaw in your reasoning, but Tom Baker is the curator and Peter Davison is David Tennant's father-in-law. Or did The Curator regenerate when I wasn't looking?
All of these theories would make for some incredible comic book storylines, and in my opinion that's the best place to continue 14's story without undermining 15.
You left out the Cushing Doctor (MY First Doctor!), but my own personal theory is that is who the Meta/10.2/Handy Doctor becomes. The deleted scene of Donna giving him a TARDIS seed is still canon, and this is what he uses to "relive" some early adventures with his granddaughters. and one's boyfriend. and a policeman named Tom.
(Who says that Pete's world is on the same timeframe as the main Whoniverse? We only saw a few bits and pieces of it. Mostly the Beach.)
I, too have considered this concept! I wonder how many fans have cobbled together a similar notion independent of one another?
If Star Trek can create a detailed explanation for why some Klingons in Kirk's time had the embarrassing absence of forehead ridges, Doctor Who's creative force can figure out how to bring Number 14, River Song and the Fugitive Doctor (as portrayed by Jo Martin) back into the most amazing TARDIS adventure of all time. We first met River when she encountered 14 (as 10), so it will provide balance to the universe. If they need help, I'll free up some time.
If The Curator is a future incarnation of The Doctor, 11 would have no memory of their conversation (and Clara was already in The TARDIS). They had just finished reminding the audience that when multiple incarnations of the same Timelord encounter themselves, only the oldest one present can retain their memory. The younger incarnations forget.
Yeah, that's the explanation for why the previous episodes featuring the younger self(selves) of the doctor didn't acknowledge the events in the multi doctor crossover event.. With the curator the tables are turned, though; doctors 11 onwards may easily retain memories of the curator, since it took place in a TV story that has been aired in real life...
Every multi-doctor episode has happened in a TV Story that aired in real life. But within the TV universe itself - **IF** The Curator is a future incarnation of The Doctor then 11 shouldn't be able to remember his encounter with him. And, the conversation happened in private (from the perspective of the characters), so there was no one there that might be able to remind him later (Doctor Who is fuzzier as to the Companions who are not crossing their own timeline and whether or not they are capable of retaining memories - think Sarah Jane Smith in The Five Doctors , 3 crossed his own future timeline, she did not).
@@KyleWitten the timeline rules are indeed fuzzy, what I wanted to say is that when a multi doctor event happens, the earlier incarnations' lack of knowledge of the events (or the consequences thereof) is explained as the doctors having crossed their timeline and therefore not able to remember... That's also the case for the sole multi master story I can think of, and in that Missy even made a remark that alluded to the fact ("long time ago a very scary woman pushed me against the wall and told me to always, always carry a spare dematerialization circuit") whereas in real life, if, for instance, a full season of episodes were produced with the multi-timelord story being a part of it, the other episodes could've been produced with the event (which would conveniently be placed in the finale) in mind, the earlier episodes might have alluded to the event and the timelord in question wouldn't have to suffer from amnesia 😁. The problem with the multi timelord stories that aired so far (the only classic series multi-doctor story I have seen so far is the three doctors, and admittedly I haven't understood the plot properly, coming to that in a minute...) the "incumbent" doctor encountered with a version of himself, stories of whom were produced at least years (if not decades) ago with a totally different team, and with no intention to put their version of the doctor against a future incarnation (heck, during William Hartnell era, different versions of the doctor wasn't even a thing!) About the 3 doctors: the way I understood the story (I watched it without subtitles, so I may have missed/misunderstood some plot points) the first doctor wasn't even in his proper timeline; he seemed to me as a manifestation of that incarnation (he appeared only on a monitor, against a black background afaicr), similar to what Chibnall made with the edge of consciousness decades later.
My theory is that Fourteen finds the gateway and becomes the Timeless Child of another universe and the cycle repeats
I have the theory that he comes from before the universe, he is from the people who jailed satan in the impossible planet.
Okay, I’ve been calling for the Valyard to return for ages now. Having David Tennent play this jaded version of the Doctor would be amazing!
I think 14 needs to somehow re-connect with 15, so that 15 is actually as carefree as he says he is. Because right now he is not really stable, he is over emotional and that often let's him freeze instead of finding a solution. And that is so because his soul was literally split into as he says in Maestro. Do to have a whole competent Doctor again, something must happen between 15 and 14. Personally I would love a touch between them, where 14 gives the rest of his regeneration energie and with it his healed state of mind to 15, and then öives on as a mortal and dies of old age. While 15 stops being a cry baby, gets his wits back and still knowes how to habe fun and show feelings.
I like the idea of a Valiard Doctor . The idea that he could outlive anyone and the fact that 10/14 are so afraid of death that could drive him into a dark place . A quick regeneration scene later we have a darker version of the War Doctor , witch is very scary .
I imagine the "coming back together" for 14 and 15 could look similar to the 4th Doctor's regeneration (with the Watcher walking into him)
If i ever got to be show runner of Doctor who, I would go on a retcon journey
1. I would introduce a standard weeping angel and then explain that someone scanned a dead angel statue and then figured out how to turn regular statues into angels. and all anomalies like images becoming angels is a science experiment.
2. all older variations of dead doctors are just images created by the Tardis, even the curator of the museum and the 14th doctor. This will explain why his clothes changed when Jodie left the role. He was just Ncuti Gatwa the whole time, but the Tardis made him look like David Tennant to help him deal with trauma.
The bi-generation came about because the giggle laser disrupted the Tardis's effect and finally the real doctor emerged while the Tardis image split off and continued walking around (like a robot created by the Tardis's matter creating matrix globes from Journey to the center of the Tardis)
3. There is no timeless child because the doctor is in fact himself from the future. The child discovered at the portal is actually a variation of the doctor that fell through at the end of the universe and therefor he is a timelord because timelords used him as the template to create him. Look up bootstrap or Grandfather paradox
if someone complains I am just making the changes I want to see, i will remind them that every show runner before did the same thing and the next show runner can just change it back if they really need/want to.
Technically, between the Doctor's 12th and final.
Jesse Deyl is the 7th incarnation, so 5 more regenerations after him is the 12th, so anyone between that and the final.
Which mean any Doctor can be the Valeyard
And with Bi-generated, lots of duplicates
I can't believe you didn't have him become Dr Moon and join River in the Library.
That was my first thought!
What if.... After 20 to 30 years living with the Nobles as the "Cool Uncle" he decides that he's ready. He doesn't want to become something they grow to resent as they all get older and, eventually, die. He has a goodbye celebration with them, hops into his TARDIS and pops off the find The Doctor. Ncuti greats him warmly with a knowing smile as Tennant says, "Thank you for that. I'm ready now. It's time." They embrace, regeneration energy engulfs Tennant and returns home to Ncuti.
Maybe it's just me but 14 could easily go save River out of the Library. He just needs some of the Flesh stuff that the 11th Doctor ran into that would copy someone's brainwaves.
That is an interesting idea. Maybe Big Finish will do that as my understanding is that the showrunner is against bringing River back. But it's one heck of a story idea.
"Tardis, except Sutekh we assume", damn my brain just explodes. I totally forgot the Tardis got cloned before Sutekh reveal. Would be quite a plot twist if Sutekh is not actually done yet and the reason for his easy-ish defeat was that they have more planned for him, being in the other Tardis aswell.
SPOILERS (potentially)
A while back, before Tennant was announced to return as the 14th Doctor there was this leak that told us he was coming back. Not only him, but Donna as well, as part of a short stint on DW. As a part of that leak they also mentioned the storyline in which current 15th Doctor regenerates at the end of Season 2 (Season :')) into the Valeyard. Then Ruby has to go to Earth's future to fetch a new 15th Doctor Tenant's remaining 14th regenerated into to stop the Valeyard.
But I'd take it with. a grain (more of a boulder) of salt: there was no mention of a second companion at the time, mrs Flood or the Pantheon, so who knows they might've changed their plans, or the entire thing might've been a very veeeeeery lucky guess.
Didn’t that leak also claim Daleks would be in the season one finale, and that past Doctors would show up in season one warning 15 about the Valeyard?
Let’s be fair the most fun is that he regenerates into another doctor and eventually ends up as the curator
For the sake of my sanity, fourteen becomes fifteen (he already did, after all), and the bi-generated Doctors become mortal, at the point they originally regenerated, and live out the remainder of a normal Time Lord life span. So they age, albeit slowly, and can die from misadventure. Which explains why some Doctors seem to disappear over time (due to the passing of the actors, IRL).
Cheers,
If the BBC is smart.. the 14th doctor is a bookmark for doctor who as a brand. The moment 15 stepped up disney stepped up with him.. now if this partnership goes south.. and disney being Disney burns the ship as they sink it.. having 14 be available to do a brand "reboot" and have the 15s "life" get deleted from time (canon) then having a unbranded pure BBC doctor to "start anew" would be a brilliant move.. a new level of preparedness unseen by a brand to date.
"if this goes south" did you mean when? But yea that would be a nice clean way to do it
I think him changing his name and living as The Curator are the best ideas
Tom Baker as the Curator is my absolute favorite Dr. I grew up watching Tom as Doctor Who so to me he will always be the Doctor.
I dont think 14 will have to merge back into 15. I think it will be more timey wimey, akin to the fact that 1 had a grandaughter named Susan because some Doctor at some point yet to be divulged will have kids one of whom parents Susan. So 14 succeeds in therapy and it effects are felt by 15 and the Doctors going forward because they're all connected psychically and temporally.
My pick revolves around the Curator. The fit is just too neat. I think 14 will be the one revisiting old faces, as part of his journey to heal himself, and eventually he ends up working as the Curator. It's just a nice way to tie off both dangling ends from the two anniversary specials.
You forgot the Doctor becoming Merlin in a future, alternate (?) timeline. “Battlefield.”
Dies of old age and his essence/aura goes back to the moment of bigeneration
Or of an accident/ in an adventure
Honestly, a 14-Donna sitcom style show would be hilarious. I'd watch the hell outta that.
*They could have a whole new canonical series featuring him and unit, which could help to tie in any loose plot holes, like him marrying River Song and beyond, since she experienced her meetings with him in a more backwards timey wimey order!!*
10:30 maybe that's the ultimate twist to patch up the timeless child. Both bi-generation halves are functionally equal and regenerate into someone else. It happened before. It happened before a lot. All Time Lords are actually The Doctor. Gallifreyans didn't reverse engineer regeneration from him, they multiplied him again and again until he became their new ruling class.
I originally meant that as a joke but you know what, if they went that way I'd nod and say yeah it makes more sense than a lot of other canon stuff… deals with the rumors of him being Omega, deals with The Valeyard, and it would be cool if The Master was a fork of The Doctor who learned a bit too much and went cuckoo. Well I say cuckoo, really more like a more psycho variety of cuckoo than the one who stole a TARDIS.
I really enjoyed this video! I thought the presenter was fabulous. Would LOVE to see Tennant as the Valeyard!
number nine is calling me.. think about it. how cool would it be for the valeyard to show up in some sort of big reveal, and for him to say: "It seems I'm.. victorious" like that would be SO STUPID and SO AMAZING LIKE AAA
Nine, number 9, number 9, number 9 I've missed all of that It makes me a few days late Compared with, like, wow!
And weird stuff like that Taking our sides sometimes Floral bark Rouge doctors have brought this specimen
I have nobody's short-cuts, ah-ah
Fourteen's "rehab" can contribute to Fifteen's "sense of self" w/out having to merge into him somehow. Since they are still the same person, both existing simultaneously (without some sort of weird timeline folding as in the multi-doctor stories) they are still *psychically* connected on a deep, subconscious level, so Fourteen's can contribute to Fifteen that way.
I HATE bigeneration.
good for you I guess
@@brewster_4 I hate it because its confusing, and there are two many questions on how it works. And what it means further down the line.
It's fact
Deal with it
I hated it to, so with you friend. A pointless troupe that was RTD at his worst and series 1 got no better. And no I won't 'deal with it' it's crap and will continue too be so, so you YOU deal with that
@@Zardoz-mq4ptit really sounds like someone here isn’t dealing with it well
Interesting video! Enjoyed it.
Side note - I can’t help but focus on your sound panels in the background. Some of them are a bit crooked and don’t quite cover the wall in between the panels. My weird brain can’t help but focus on the cracks between the panels. Kind of like the 11th Doctor and the cracks in time and space. 🤣
Out-there fan prediction: he’ll have a limited 3-4 part spin-off involving some mystery that takes him away during the events of season one’s finale, probably a significantly more adult and darker look at the whoniverse where he’ll have to deal with something from his past when he was the tenth doctor, the trauma of his past as the doctor as a whole, and an encounter with a not too distant future incarnation of himself as the Valeyard with the face of Matt Smith, all of which will probably result in him regenerating on a cliff-hanger 😜
I *LOVE* your take on "The Curator"!!!! That's it! That is what happens! I don't care what ANYONE else says!!!!
if they do. do a spinoff with Tennant back as 14 do it during the off season when the current show isn't running. currently we have no dr who content it would be great for a spinoff to be on disney + right now times like these after the first season of regular who but before the xmas special
In my opinion theory 5 fixes the timeless child (as in makes 1, 1 again and not a mystery number). In my head it plays out as the war doctor's alternate life post time-war working for Gallifrey, and eventually creating the organisation that the other doctor from 13's run in our universe works for, and maybe after nearing the end of that regeneration cycle used his new organisation to steal an endless cycle of regeneratons and fled into a new universe. However, because he wasn't given the regenerations the regeneration he underwent effectively just made him a new person, but the organisation he created thought it was only temporary and ,for lack of better words, groomed him into the doctor of war again, going from universe to universe acting as a sort of mercenary force for every gallifrey they find, and destroying universes they deem unfit.
Some really solid theories here and some that I had not heard of.
I quite like the sound of 14 becoming the Valeyard. Especially if you take into account the death of Wilf (RIP), it could then be the catalyst that slowly starts his turn towards the bitter half.
Honestly, unless it involves Fourteen and River reuniting, I'm okay with never seeing Fourteen ever again 😅
Alex *REALLY* wanted to work with Jodie, so.... yeah.
(It also helps explain her "wives" comment in HoRS.)
Can we finally rest David tennant pls. Doctor who is about change we can't always bring back the most popular one
If you don’t want a Fourteen and Donna spin off to tread on the toes of the main show due to their popularity. It may be prudent to do a movie every so often, especially as Tennant always seems to be filming something so scheduling an ongoing series could be tricky.
fun fact, Paul Mcgann's doctor did regenerate in the Shalka doctor and Rowan Atkinson (or at least it is shown through a time window in an eda i think called The Tomorrows Windows, along with additional 9th doctors), in the novelization for Doctor Who and the Time War that rtd wrote that doesnt feature the war doctor and instead covers the Paul Mcgann doctor as the one who fought in the time war and pressed the button causing himself to regenerate into Eccleston's 9th doctor (which is also reference in the same eda as the other 9th doctors)
In future episodes that involve unit, they should have a lookalike, or Tenant himself, just in the background doing desk work. No lines or interaction. Just in the back of the shot. He briefly looks up then goes back to paperwork
12:55 my theory (that I just came up with) is that 14 and his TARDIS is the one on Trenzalore and he DID die in a battle among millions, the reason that in The name of the Doctor the great intelligence and clara and the Doctor didnt see 12 13 and 14 is because it intentionally didnt show them
also, the reason 14 fixing himself affected 15 even though he died died is because of timey-wimey spacey-wacey shenanigans
I like the idea that 14 would just shirk all responsibility like his previous incarnations and embark on a carefree journey through time and space as usual and avoid any contact with his twin self. You know, just be the Doctor. It might fill in all those off screen adventures that secondary characters occasionally allude to, especially during Matt Smith's run.
You say 14's TARDIS is identical to 15's "minus Sutekh". I wouldn't be so sure.
I still like my idea that 14 eventually regenerates into a fan fiction doctor, say DW2012 little red doctor, later purple doctor. Making it cannon
I think 14 joins 15 when 15 regenerates. Both of them would make up 16.
I think it would be fun if they had a series with the 14th Doctor traveling with Donna again. Then, maybe, they could somehow become separated, and the Doctor could get help trying to find her. Maybe he could get some help from a time traveling archeologist, who we already know was surprised when she realized that the Doctor who looked like the 10th Doctor didn't know who she was, and was actually the youngest version of him that she had met. You just have to make sure she never actually sees Donna, and there would be no plot holes.
the idea that he regenerates into another doctor and that each bigeneration regenerating into a new encarnation would explain the fugitive doctor, maybe 14 becomes the fugitive doctor
That would be delightful.
personally, idk what i think like 14 going through therapy and then dispersing into artron energy that gets pulled through space and time and snaps back to the giggle to become 15 would make sense to me, each bigenerated doctor becoming a version of the curator would also make a ton of sense but like what/where is the line between the doctor being a bigenerated doctor vs being the curator? i could also see 14 sending his tardis to trenzalore just idk how i feel cause like doesnt 14's tardis still have sutekh so like sutekh on trenzalore kinda really diminishes sutekh from being all powerful (however i could see 14 thinking hes sending his tardis to close a loop without realizing that hes also sending sutekh who could be the reason the doctor fails the first time)
I think because of bigeneration, especially because of the whole timeless child infinite regenerations thing, we will discover that in reality, 14 eventually becomes the war doctor but because of an unknown side effect of bigeneration long term, he had forgotten one of his old lives, the life as 13, and thus doesn't remember. It also explains why 13 doesn't understand how this was her own timeline, because 13 was actually seeing one of her timelines, the timeline from one of her bigenerations, which she'd have no idea about since technically as of being 13 she could have gone one either timeline, she's at a converging point before her timeline divides in two upon 14 and 15 bigenerating from each other. It's technically the doctor's timeline, but we were never told which timeline of the doctor. Because that's where it gets tricky is she's technically in both timelines before the divergence through bigeneration, so she very well could have become war doctor down the line in the 14 bigeneration timeline. And even farther down that same line, war doctor eventually does regenerate into the valyard.
Or a different idea. Since the master technically was the doctor temporarily, he could have traces of the doctor left in him, and because of that he eventually becomes the valyard, and the time lords got it wrong since the valyard was the darkest parts of the doctor, literally born from all the bad parts the master would presumably potentially have got when being sent back into his own body. And at that point, it could be the master is actually the valyard down the line, technically still being the worst parts of the doctor as he might eventually just lose his master self entirely since we don't know the long term effects of what the master did either
A Valiard mini series where we see David Tennant's Dr spiral into becoming a villain could be excellent
Note that I feel he probably becomes the Curator
I like the idea that the Doctor will regenerate backwards through previous incarnations
a david tennant 70s style doctor who unit series would be amazing honestly
One you missed... as 14 he gets older, everyone has gone, at some point his energy is needed to help along a Doctor's regeneration, for example, The Watcher... or perhaps 14 is needed to complete 15's regeneration, either way, he sacrifices himself in good old, Doctor Style...
If we accept that bigeneration means that all the old Doctors are still around, the logical answer to the Curator question is that he *is* the older Fourth Doctor.
As unsatisfactory as it may seem, the “fade away like Yoda” option seems the most logical to me; when the Fourteenth Doctor’s time comes, he’ll vanish and be drawn back to the moment when he becomes Fifteen.
Honestly, the only explanation that makes any sense at all to me is that 14 lives a good, long and chilled out life before - at the moment of his death - coalescing into a ball of pure Artron energy and hurtling back in time - memories intact - to the moment of his bigeneration: 15 is fine because 14 healed himself. This makes dramatic and emotional sense and also reinforces a causal link between 14s “retirement” and 15s renewed energy for life
I like to think he just lives alongside the nobles as the always travelling uncle but eventually decides to join both his tardis and himself to 15 and his tardis
Here's my own idea. Once 14th reaches the end of his lifespan, after being with Donna and her family, he regenerates into the Curator, then once the Curator himself reaches the end of his lifespan, he becomes the Watcher, add some weird timey wimey bs, and he merges with the dying 4th Doctor, Tom Baker, becoming the 5th Doctor Peter Davidson. It's a weird idea but I like the idea of making things full circle where 14th was split up from 15th, only for him to be merged again with his former incarnation, and also explaining who the Watcher is.
In an effort to provide some relevance in this comment (see below), I would suggest a 14/Donna series doesn't even need to be a full series of the show. It can be a mini-series, even a once or twice a year special. We can have Ncuti doing the usual Christmas specials, bring in 14/Donna for the New year, or at other times like the 2008-2010 specials. We may become spoiled as an audience and go to bed with very fully fandom bellies each night, but I would be willing to put up with the metaphorical heartburn. :P
The only problem I can see with the idea of 14 regenerating into someone new that isn't Ncuti is that it would undermine the effect of the 14 healing himself. 15 wouldn't be able to benefit from that healing if 14 becomes someone else, though as we know Time Lords are all psychically connected anyway, there could be that flow on effect, making this whole comment utterly pointless. :D :D
Wait! Is Ellie the Great Curator?!
I think 14 was to become 15 eventually but the Toymaker screwed up something and caused it to happen differently which is why hes confused in giggle. 14 eventually regenerates and ends up back at Giggle possibly losing some memories to maintain the timeline
Head canon: 14 regenerates a few times and eventually becomes the Valeyard. I'd love to see a season where the Valeyard is played by the same actor as the current Doctor. You could have him framing the Doctor for various crimes before the season finale.
The Toymaker's 100 Doctors line about how he can just keep killing the Doctor would lend weight to bigenerations of bigenerations.
I think that 14 will eventually snuff it but as a multi-doctor special and that he'll either merge back with 15 as a joint regeneration to get to 16, or his regeneration energy will be transferred back to 15
I like that he either merges back with 15 (maybe becoming The Valeyard before hand), or he grows old and dies. I hate Russel's idea that every doctor bigenerated, it makes no sense whatsoever. He's got to merge back with 15 at some point, otherwise everything 15 said to him in The Giggle doesn't make sense.
On the other hand, it would be cool if he became the Curator, and just kept reusing of his old faces, including 6 and 4. The problem with that is that I don't think it would work well with him merging back with 15, which he needs to do in my opinion.
P.S. No version of the Doctor is heading to Trenzalore anymore, the end of Time of the Doctor rewrote those events. The battle the doctor was meant to die in was the Siege of Trenzalore, but when Clara convinced the Time Lords to give the Doctor his new regeneration cycle, that changed time, meaning the Doctor no longer dies on Trenzalore.
To me the 14th Doctor is just the 10th. It would have been a great opportunity in the hands of a competent writer to have 14 in a different outfit and with Tennant's own accent. As it is, he uses the 10th Doctor's accent, wears an outfit very similar and goes straight to 10's companion. Tennant is a good actor but he just hams it up. Donna had a tragic but beautiful ending with the wonderful coda that she won the lottery. Now we are meant to believe that she gave it all away because the Doctor was kind and a vague memory of kindness made her give it all away. She was so kind she forced her husband to now work all the hours as a cabbie. It's also never properly explained why 13 regenerated into a past self.
I would Love to see The Doctor (David Tennant) return as a Villian! We know D.T. can act evil! But I'd enjoy it only if, at the end, we find out it wasn't really "14" but a clone, imitation, disguise. (The Master? "UnMask to reveal Michelle Gomez Please!)
As always, thank you so very much for the videos.
Also I'd like to see River Song encounter 14 (before she me Tennant's Doctor in The Library) which would explain why she didn't know they were meeting for the first time.
A grounded dramady of 14 adjusting to life on earth while no longer a timelord. A fish out of water story. But he still can make the odd trip in the Tardis. Maybe the clone tardis does not fully work correctly.
My favorites revolve around the Curator. I feel like it's fitting if either A) there has been a bi-generation every time (or that bi-generation was retroactive), but that one half of the bi-generation is mortal, meaning that every version of the doctor has had the opportunity to retire and grow old and die (not really supported by the on screen dialogue), or B) fourteen is NOT mortal, and continues to regenerate, but gets to "revisit" old faces. B is the one I like the most. It still leaves only the retired Doctor and the fifteen-and-counting Doctor as "active", but fourteen could re-dub himself the Curator and go traveling through time, curating history and letting the Doctor be the one to have adventures.
Love Ellie and Whoculture!! Literally getting me through tough times :)❤❤❤
I personally like the idea of bigenerated timelords becoming more sentient versions of watchers ala an idea that was had for the valeyard
im loving these theories. it would make since why theyre keeping fourteenant in their back pocket. valyard and the master team up!
I love the idea of 14 going rouge or at lest butting heads with 15th and or being at odds with each other.