Could Ungoliant Devour the Silmarils? Middle-earth Explained
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Ungoliant was a powerful and enigmatic monster of the Elder Days, and due to her conflict with Melkor over attempting to consume the Silmarils, the question must be asked… Could she have done so? Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts on this inquiry in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
#lordoftheringslore
#silmarillionlore
#middleearthlore
Use code “YOYSTAN_15” for 15% off at ZeWood (ATTEMPT THE CODE + FATHER’S DAY SALE):
(They reached out later and said they will allow coupon + the current sale for the best price!)
zewood.co/page....
/ zewood.co
Castle Kon Replicas:
castlekon.com/
Mythologie Candles:
mythologiecand...
Consider donating to our Patreon for the Westernesse Podcast and Discord Server:
/ menofthewest
Check out our music channel:
/ @musicmotw
Join us on Facebook at:
/ yoystan
Join us on Twitter at:
/ yoystan
Related articles:
/ what_if_ungoliant_ate_...
lotr.fandom.co...
tolkiengateway...
/ ungoliant_and_the_silm...
The Giant Spiders of Middle-earth:
• The Giant Spiders of M...
Ungoliant the Demonic Spider - Epic Character History:
• Ungoliant the Demonic ...
Thank you for your (Valar and Elf tiers) patronage and support!
Justin
Brian Hunley
Zoomi
Andrew Carlisle
Moon Viper
Theodore
Robert Bogue
Kings Wild Project
Bryan Garwood
Anthony Harmon
Arthur
Blair Scouten
Merlin
Elizabeth Calvert
John Hume
Maz Gibs
merten
Peter Sheppard
Rhys Jenkins
Sam mcbee
April Green
Brent Paredes
Chiara Siaset
Corwin Nemeth
Dale Starbuck
Helko
Jpcjr
Matthew Jacoby
Matthew Rivas
Memory Troll
Peter DeVault
Psynexus
Susan Henry
Tobias Göldner
Van Hardison, PhD
metalguy87
Saoirse Rose
NicthevikTv
Marc
Paul Leone
theo
Jake Pedsneuro
Inge Marie Schmidlin
theo
Mason Mathias
Estellise
Ashley Dilley
Tyler Lund
Bryan Sowder
scooterdtx
(These are active patrons, if you don’t see your name, there may be an issue with your donation)
The new Men of the West thumbnail logo overlay was created by Raffe:
@RaffetheRandom on Twitter
The new Men of the West logo was created by Beau:
www.instagram....
The new Men of the West intro was created by Tyler Lund:
tylerlund.myst...
The image “Bag End” was created by Wayne Glassbrook at designly.net
The first and third songs used in this video:
Dark Times by Kevin MacLeod
Link: incompetech.fi...
License: filmmusic.io/s...
The second and last songs used in this video are from:
library.techsm...
Many related and/or used art come from these artists and sources:
Ralph Damiani:
www.deviantart...
www.artstation...
Ted Nasmith:
www.tednasmith...
Jenny Dolfen:
goldseven.word...
Alan Lee:
www.iamag.co/t...
John Howe:
www.john-howe....
Hildebrant Brothers:
www.brothershil...
Magali Villeneuve
www.magali-vill...
EKukanova:
www.deviantart...
steamey:
www.deviantart...
SaMo-art:
www.deviantart...
Anke Eissmann:
anke.edoras-art...
Kip Rasmussen:
www.kiprasmuss...
alystraea:
www.deviantart...
peet:
www.deviantart...
LOTRO (screenshots):
LOTRO.com
marask:
www.deviantart...
jossand:
www.deviantart...
dakkun:
/ dakkun39
Enanoakd
I’d imagine it would be like attempting to devour a jawbreaker: it could be done but you’ll be in a heck of a lot of pain!
I’ve a crazy theory. Ungoliant is a light eater and the more light she devours , the darker she grows. The Silmarils are pure light, then if she had devoured them, she would have become absolute darkness, a sort of black hole which would have engulfed the entire reality. Therefore Ungoliant would have imploded as in the Big Bang. . Ungoliant would have proved but a mere instrument of Iluvatar to restart creation because the previous one was inherently marred by the evil of Melkor.
Best description ive seen 👍🏽
I like it.
A nice theory
In Astrophysics if a Black Hole doesn't consume light and matter, it eventually eats itself then either evaporates slowly into Hawking Radiation, or EXPLODES back into sub atomic particles.
I rewatched the trilogy last week.
The last line of aragorn's rally speach at the black gate hit different after appreciating this channel for the last 4 years.
I thought of so many video topics.... will comment later.
Hey everyone! The coupon for Zewood is now Yoystan_15 due to the old code being found online elsewhere. Thanks!
If i remember correctly, it is said after Ungoliant fled, "and then the silmarils's light didn't dissapear from the world". This pretty much asume that Ungoliant could devour the silmarils if the balrogs didn't came. In some earlier of Tolkien's work, she was a spirit of void and the darkness outside Arda, her name was Moru, if i remember correctly.
Seems to me that purely technical, it should be possible. The silmarils "merely" contain the light of the two trees. Light that ungoliant has no trouble operating in, and she managed to poison the trees and drain the wells of varda, which feed the trees and their light. Its basically saying a beast that has just emptied a tanker truck full of coca cola cant drink three more cups of the stuff.
The "fate" component seems more influential, As eru said to morgoth that whatever morgoth tried to mar eru's creation, he would only serve to make it greater and serve eru's ultimate plan. Hence also melkor involving ungoliant falls in this category. If it wasnt eru's plan to see the silmarils eaten, they were not eaten. Maybe melkor and his balrogs could not have driven her off if ffate diidnt dictate the silmarils stay out of her reach. Or maybe eru 's plan made sure melkor had enough balrogs to repel her. Again, even the rebelling ainur are ultimately serving eru's designs.
Awesome vid yoystan love the middle earth explained vids
"Are they tasty?"
"Are they scruuuummmptious??""
This was an Awesome video! Realy enjoyed it!
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t the silmarils made from the light of the two tress which ungoliant consumed? If so this would suggest that she could consume the silmarils no?
Touché!
The Two Trees were not hallowed by the Valar and had not a great destiny to fullfill.
What does that mean?
I hadn't even considered that before making my own reply, nor the points brought up in the responses to your post. That's what I love about the Legendarium, there is so much to consider and speculate on.
@@mr.zardoz3344
The Two Trees were not wardened against being touched by "unworthy" creatures. The Silmarils were.
Melkor was burned holding them, Charcaron was burned to madness when swallowed one.
I would add to this, the Two Trees were pierced by Melkor (with a spear) and then Ungolianth sucked them dry. Ungolianth didn't it alone with her own power.
She could have, but she would have suffered the same fate as Carcaroth. They were hallowed, and would burn anything unclean that touched them. Beren could touch them because he was neither evil nor unclean.
'One who cannot cast away a treasure at need is in fetters.' Aragorn
I think this fits Morgoth and Ungoliant very well and shows how Morgoth's own greed led to his downfall.
On the contrary, I think had Ungoliant devoured the jewels, things would have been worse with resentment towards the Valar for not having helped retrieve the Silmarils from Morgoth's grasp would have lead to an even bigger schism. Think about how bad things got with the hope of retrieval? Then imagine just how bad things get when all hope is removed.
Good video and wow the sponsors do create beautiful products
I think the simple answer be:
She would certainly try to eat them.
Man, part of me thinks: we have no spiders in Arda anymore, while the other thinks she would have been so powerful!!! IDK!!!
Here is something I thought of now:
Smeagol/Gollums: What's Silmarils, Precious, What's Silmarils?!!!
Ungoliant: SIM A RILS!!! Take Them, Eat Them, Destroy Arda's Light Source!!! *LMAO*
I will check out the Sponsor after this...
Thanks Mellon for another Interesting Question/Video/Topic, Until the Hunt for Gollum...Marion Baggins Out!!!
Excellent analysis. Well done and thank you!
Didn't the sap of the two trees make her bigger and meaner? So, eating the light of the trees might just make her big enough to eat a Balrog or Melkor. Either way, that would have left Feanor severely confused.
My favourite theory of ungoliants origin is related to my favourite theory about tom bombadill: tom is the incarnation of the music of the ainur, ungoliant is the incarnation of melkors discord in the music
I always thought the history of the whole world of Arda was the incarnation of the music, as they were separated into 3 different themes, just like the three ages of the world and Eru quite specifically told them afterwards that he'll reveal to them what their music meant and made
@@alexkats30 the history and world of Arda is the product of the music itself, which doesn't exclude the possibility of Tom bombadill being the incarnation. Incarnation being specifically made flesh, in person form, etc.
Because yes for sure the music of the ainur is the creation of arda
@@jakelaurence30 I guess I never thought of it that way , because I always thought that Arda itself and everything in it was already the incarnation of the music of the Ainur
"We could let her do it."
Really interesting! I'm tending to think yes? She ate everything else. And the silmarils originally came from the two trees which she consumed to make into unlight. The real question is whether she survives such a meal. Such holy light concentrated in one place would have burned for centuries so then i think not? But if she survived such a meal then the jewels would have been lost for a long time and then another battle would have taken place perhaps, similar to Sam and shelob. Either way, she wanted to consume to silmarils but they consumed her ultimately
I think Ungoliant would devour the Simarlis but she can’t digest them because it’s so holy and sanctified that it would make her go into intense pain and agony. She is the embodiment of the Void so possibly she would carry the gems for years but it will be too much that she will die from them. It’s poetic to say Eru’s light will shine no matter the Void will try to consume him.
Talk about heartburn...she'd need an extra large bottle of Pepto Bismol.
Because Ungoliant wasn't of the same place as the Valar, I would say yes. Her power and origin would indicate she is unlimited.
Ungoliant is fascinating... I believe her and Tom Bombadil are twin opposite spirits.
Give it to me
I must have it
Precious treasure
I deserve it
Where can I run?
How can I hide?
The Silmarils
Gems of treelight
Their life belongs to me
Oh, it's sweet
How the darkness is floating around
We are following
The will of the one
Through the dark age
And into the storm
- Blind Guardian, Nightfall in Middle Earth
Great music right there
My belief about Ungoliant is that she was an Ainu but quite different from the other ones we know about. We do know Melkor recruited her but then she decided she wanted to be on her known and not subordinate to him so she left. I think she was quite powerful on her own, likely the equivalent of one of the lesser Valar but that at the time of her attack on Morgoth she was temporarily a lot more powerful because of all she had consumed in the attack on the Two Trees while Morgoth was weakened by the power he had used to in the course of their attack and subsequent escape. But actually being able to consume the Silmarils is a whole other matter. They were more than just the light of the Two Trees; they were also the greatest work of Fëanor, most skilled of all the Elves (regardless of his many other shortcomings) and were hallowed by Varda. This would have prevented her from destroying them as she did the lesser jewels Morgoth stole. As to whether Ilúvatar had a hand in making it not possible for Ungoliant to have consumed them, I would argue that if he did, he did so through Varda.
Yes. Yes she could.
I love the what if?😊
She drank from the trees
Considering she ate all the light of the two trees, I'd have assumed the Silmarils would have been a piece of cake in comparison
The issue is not the light. Light of the 2 trees is captured in Silima, a special material only Feanor knows how to make and unmake in all of Aarda, it is said that nothing could destroy them, not even Morgoth or Aule would know how. So sure she could swallow them, but could she digest the Silima in order to release the light from them, in the same way you need to crush the egg shell to get to the egg. I never really considered this question but i would say that no, she could not. Silmarils are tied to the begining of the end of Aarda, Eru would not allow them to be maared in any way until the day of renewal when Feanor will personally break them to resurrect the 2 trees
@@Grancigul below, a comment quote what Tolkien wrote after the Balrogs make Ungoliant flee and pretty much confirmed that yes she could have.
Well she did eat the light of the two trees
I *think* I've managed to work the major events involving the hunt for Gollum within the context of Peter Jackson's Middle-earth. Note that Jackson places Bilbo's birthday party in the year 3000 (Third Age; see FOTR-EE). This puts the Quest of Erebor in the year 2940. I've included some of the other events that could be in the film. Take a gander:
2940 - The Quest of Erebor; the White Council drives the Necromancer out of southern Mirkwood; the Battle of Five Armies. Thorin, Fíli and Kíli are slain.
2941 - Bilbo returns to Bag End. Aragorn begins his period of great journeys and errantries
2943 - Bard rebuilds Dale and becomes King. Gollum leaves the Mountains and begins his search for the 'thief' of the Ring.
2951 - Sauron declares himself openly in Mordor and sends three of his Nazgûl to restore Dol Guldur. Gollum turns towards Mordor.
2953 - The last meeting of the White Council. Saruman takes Isengard as his own and begins fortifying it.
2963 - Samwise Gamgee is born. Théoden becomes King of Rohan.
2964 - Aragorn leaves the service of Ecthelion II, the Steward of Gondor. Aragorn and Arwen are reunited in Lórien. About this time Gollum reaches the confines of Mordor and becomes acquainted with Shelob.
2977 - Balin is slain and the colony is destroyed.
2983 - Saruman dares to use the palantír of Orthanc and becomes ensnared by Sauron who possessed the Ithil-stone. He becomes a traitor to the Council and he becomes curious about Gandalf's interest in the Shire.
2990 - Bain son of Bard becomes King of Dale.
2991 - Death of Gilraen.
2993 - Gandalf seeks for news of Gollum and calls on the help of Aragorn. At intervals during the next eight years, they search in the vales of Anduin, Mirkwood, and Rhovanion to the confines of Mordor. At some time during these years Gollum himself ventured into Mordor, and was captured by Sauron.
3000 - Gollum is released from Mordor. He is taken by Aragorn in the Dead Marshes, and brought to Thranduil in Mirkwood. Gandalf visits Minas Tirith and reads the scroll of Isildur. After learning of Gollum's capture Gandalf questions the creature in Mirkwood. Bilbo celebrates his eleventy-first birthday and secretly leaves for Rivendell.
3001 - Frodo Baggins takes the One Ring to Rivendell. The Fellowship of the Ring is formed.
I want an animated series depicting the first age & I want it now!
In considering her reaction to the light of Elendil that Frodo and Sam use in battling her, I think your conclusion is correct.
I love the discussion of what is Ungoliant. I'm rereading The Silmarillion right now, and I have some thoughts on this topic. What do you think?
I’ve always believed that the Silmarils were too powerful and had a greater destiny for an evil such as Ungoliant to have been able to devour them. They would’ve caused her unimaginable pain that she would’ve fled from them
She devoured the 2 trees. The Silmarils contained the light of the 2 trees. She would have been able to devour them.
Hey there Yoystan. love your videos. You can't discuss whether something could have happened in-universe and then say that it couldn't because it would've ruined the story :)
The two trees were described as living beings. Melkor pierced the trees with his spear, their sap ran and Ungoliant drank the sap, stuck her beak in the trees and drained them of life and light and poisoned them (credit to Robert @ In Deep Geek who also did an episode on Ungoliant). The Silmarils are jewels crafted with light from the two trees. What is the nature of the Silmarils? Is the light of the two trees encased in some sort of inorganic matter, such as adamant? If Ungoliant was able to consume them, would she be able to feed on the light until it went out? Or would they simply be trapped, radiating their light within her? Was Carcharoth a werewolf in the flesh? When he bit off Beren's hand and the Silmaril with it, it burned him on the inside but also made him more powerful. What was the nature of Ungoliant? What gave her form? Scary thought: The Silmarils, their light protected in gem-like structures would never dim, but keep feeding her darkness making her more powerful. Gorging herself, because even the Silmarils couldn't satisfy her, until she finally implodes. Great topic. So many ways to spin it 🕷🕸
I love me a fellow wood worker
Well, i was thinking that ungoliant could devour them but you changed my mind. I think you’re right in that ungoliant would not even be able to eat them in the first place as some fate or destiny would transpire to prevent that from even happening. Even if that wasn’t the case, if ungoliant ate even one silmaril i would think that it would burn her to ash from the inside out.
She could have tried, but the Silmarils likely would have burned through her imho; Light is the ultimate enemy of darkness after all.
You just did a (great) video on how Ungoliant was able to take out both of the Trees in Valinor. She digested all their combined light those no problem whatsoever. The Silmarils only contain a fraction of that radiance. Why would that burn her if the Trees did not?
I think they would have ended up on Antiques roadshow! 🤣🤣🤣. Sorry, couldn't resist. It certainly would have drastically changed events. Feanor wouldn't have made that idiotic Oath, and etc etc...🖖😁🤘🇨🇦
Forget all the prophecy and doom. Could Ungolient eat the silmarils? I believe so. They were made with the light of the two trees. If she could eat the trees I see no reason why the silmarils would give her any problems. Just imagine how fucked Melkor would have been if she did ma age to eat just one on top of the size and power she gained from the trees, jewels and fountains.
The greatest darkness met equally by the greatest light. And the worlds were once again reset in the eyes of their creator.
Ungoliant consumed the light the Two Trees, which was the source of the light within the Silmarils, without going mad. If she was able to do that, I don't see any reason why she wouldn't be able to do t he same with Feanor's jewels.
If Ungoliant had somehow been able to eat the Silmarils, wouldn't the sons of Feanor then be oath-bound to try and slay her? There's a myriad of ways this could play out, depending on what happens to Morgoth, if the Feanorians still hastily assail Angband, etc., but the gist of this is that I'm imagining scenarios where, by choice or by fate, the sons of Feanor must come into direct conflict with Ungoliant. I can't say that I like their odds against her… but perhaps the guiding hand of Fate might give them an edge.
Before watching the video, my initial answer is no. Shelob could not tolerate the light from the vial of Galladriel, and the silmarils are probably more powerful. One might argue that Ungoliant was around the silmarils while she was with Morgoth, and they did not bother her. However, I would respond that Morgoth was not worthy of possessing the silmarils, so they did not give off the light that would daunt Ungoliant. If she tried to devour them, they would destroy her like the one silmaril destroyed Carcharoth from the inside.
I would say Yes she could. As long as I don't have to elaborate on what would happen if she did.
I feel like the Silmarils would have been her last meal, and Morgoth would have reclaimed them from her ashes. The story would have run mostly the same for the rest of the First Age, but later events would have been significantly changed by the absence of her offspring from the timeline.
The Silmarils, while fantastic, are only echos of the majesty of the Two Trees, just as the Phial of Galadriel is an echo of Earendil. So if Ungoliant was able to devour the Trees of Light (the "Valar's Ring" to so speak) then she'd have no problem with the lesser Silmarils. Remember the Trees were also blessed and hallowed by all the Valar, and would logically have more spiritual holiness/defenses than the Silmarils.
I would say yes because she was able to suck the two trees dry which held the original light. She was immune to their effect. Ungoliant was an alien in my opinion. Most likely from beyond the outre rim of the universe where lovecrafts beasties reside.
The sanctification of the crystals was absolute. Ungoliant would’ve suffered, same as Carcharoth. I fear she would’ve also responded w/ comparatively a much more destructive rampage than the Red Maw perpetrated
Were the Silmarils a way to test the children? Whether they were worthy or jot?
I think the problem here is that you try to scale the powers of Middle Earth rather than approaching it from the nature of each object and being. They just don't scale well, if at all. It is Ungoliant's fundamental nature to devour light and expel darkness. If she can do so to the light of the Two Trees, which are the source of the Silmarils' light and greater, she can certainly do so to the Silmarils themselves.
I think it might also depend on how quickly after destroying the trees she would have tried eating them. After all, their light gave her more strength
no.
Could have, would have and been driven to madness and destruction
The Silmarils were meant to be indestructible save for Feanor’s hands (the one who created them), and Eru’s. I don’t think Ungoliant could have consumed the light of the Silmarils and would be in a lot of pain.
Morgoth was too prideful to give up the Silmarils even knowing it would send Ungoliant into madness and killing her then.
She’s located underneath Australia.
You know it, I know it, everyone knows it!
I don't think Ungoliant can break the Silmarils. As stated in the Second Prophecy of Mandos, the Silmarils can only be broken after the Dagor Dagorath. At this point, I think one can speculate about the influence of the Silmarils on Ungoliant based on the influence of one of them on Carcaroth.
She was able to consume the light of the two trees and the Wells of Varda without problem, the Silmarils would have been no serious problem.
Ungoliant was able to devour the light of the Two Trees so I feel like she could have devoured the Silmarills
Ungoliant would have had a bad case of indigestion.
If Balrogs can drive her off, then no, she can't "devour" them. She can swallow them but not consume them.
Do spiders poop?
Do you think that the men of middpe earth would have survived without the guidance of the Noldor, who surely would not have reason to leave Valinor if the Silmarils were lost? This fate is far reaching indeed.
She could have devoured them, just like a Human can drink Salt Water. It would have caused problems for her, and her body's reaction would have been to remove the item, or die from it.
Digested and Metabolized them? No.
I've been watching video's like this....well, until this place calls me back....I'm....sort of in-between jobs at- Doesn't matter, anyways, from my understanding, Ungolilant's fate is unknown, but is believed she had devoured herself at some point.
And if my understanding is right, she also would traveled in the direction that eventually the Blue Wizards would travel.
So wouldn't it be cool if they actually came across her and ended her but sacrificing themselves, or, somehow found the Silmarils, or at least one, and that was just enough to destroy her?
It would make for inserting story lore.
Ungoliant was able to drain the two trees of light so I think she could have eaten the Silmarils
Devour, yes. But their light would have slowly burnt her from inside.
Laser engraving is not hand made my friend
If Ungoliath had the time to kill Morgoth (or, at least, cut his hands) she could have eaten the Silmarils.
She would become mad and would have slayed both Morgoth and the Balrogs.
But as the power in her grew, because of the light of the Silmarils, she would in the end, die.
Where she would die and who would get the Silmarillons would be my guess.
But, in Angband a new dark lord would raise. But, instead of the destruction of Arda he would be after his control; to do in it what he wished, and he considered a God between mortals.
Nope the pure, original light would've burned a hole in her eventually
Why not?
The greedy bint ate the two trees