Old video I know, but for those contemplating buying a Black Knight, yes the Pro is a better playing game. It has more flow and is more focused on progressing through the creature modes to get to the wizard modes. You also have a much better view of the WAR lanes and can clearly see where each of the shots will send the ball to. I had a chance to purchase a Premium at a very attractive price, went with the Pro anyway, and have zero regrets. It's an underrated game that is challenging and a lot of fun to play.
I’m in for a pro. I typically buy pro machines anyway the little extra gimmicks that they install for the premium just are never worth the money. And if you ever get tired of the game and go to sell it, pros are easier to get your investment back. A lot of people don’t want to pay premium prices for a used game
It would have been nice if the upper play field had more features similar to the 6 rollover lanes, 3 pop bumpers, 3 stand up targets and motorized drawbridge found on the version from 30 years ago.
Upper playfield is only to lock the ball into the Catapult Lock. The fun with BK2K was ripping the skyway loop over and over. Not on this one, you shoot the loop and lock the ball. Unfortunately, Catapult multiball will not be available on the Pro. The strategy with the Premium and LE is trying to lock 3 balls on the lower playfield and locking 3 balls on the upper to start 2 multiballs at once. Looks like the whole upper playfield is going to be a pain to muck around with. The pro is fast and smooth and has a fast loop wrap around shot. The Premium and LE seem a little slower and the fact that you're distracted with that upper playfield. The games need to be played before purchase for sure.
I own the PRO SOR and I love it. I played the premium one before buying Pro and enjoy the Pro better. The upper playfield feels like an add on afterthought that was not well thought out or integrated well into the flow of the game.
It's a double edged sword - no pun intended.... Buying a black knight without an upper playfield seems like blasphemy - black knight pinballs and upper playfields just go together. So buying one without an upper playfield won't seem right. Having said that, I totally agree with your assessment after watching (and thanks a ton for taking the time to edit the stream to focus on the upper playfield). But I was like WTF?!? when I saw the ball action up there. So disappointing. Hopefully getting a chance to play it will change my mind, but it looks doubtful.
Have to agree with most of your concerns. I went in on an LE but very concerned after watching the stream about the the flow of the game on the LE. I was pumped after watching the Pro, It looked incredible. Then when they got to the LE the upper play field was just Meh at best for me. I thought the game didn't flow as well with it... I'm gonna stick with the LE but only due to the Art and extras. VERY concerned how I'm going to like the upper play field.... Great thoughts btw and thanks for taking the time to do the vid!
The challenge of getting six-ball multi-balls (during regular gameplay by activating two independent three-ball multi-balls) is sufficient for me to go premium. I also like the cabinet art better too. My big art concern is the backglass: the pro and the mirrored limited backglass show the black knight twirling his fiery flail (it’s gorgeous, don’t get me wrong here.) Too bad those games aren’t called Black Knight Flail of Rage. But they’re not. Based on where the game is located, you may not see much of the side cabinet art. But you’ll always see the entire backglass. So I want the Black Knight in my game’s backglass to be wielding the Sword of Rage.
Damn, bro. I was really hoping the upper play field would be fly af. However, I'm afraid I agree. It doesn't look like it adds anything to gameplay. I still like the side art better on the premium, but it's not 1500 dollars better. Let me know when you hit that barcade.
I'm a terrible judge of games based on video. I'd never buy a game without playing it first. The Pro looks great to me and I'm really looking forward to checking it out. It could possibly end up being my first NIB if I like how it shoots. Like you say, it's doing everything else right.
I had and amazing day with friends playing the pro in multiplayer, it is fast and clear, and seeing the other version, I do not miss the upper playfield.
Yea..I think the Pro will be the best choice also after seeing the upper playfield in action..Just like you said..Not much to do up there and alot more cleaning headaches down the road..An OP is getting a Pro at a bar near me so can't wait to try it!!!
I have a pro coming in tomorrow. I watched a lot of game play from different machines, and nothing else flowed like this game. The speed, the classic theme, the retro modes, the Knight toy, all sold me. My biggest issue with Stern these days is if you look at something like Iron Man which has a good amount of toys in it, (Monger, Whiplash, War Machine), and then look at Black Knight which has one (great) single toy. What happened between 2010 and now that we seem to get less innovation and toys with newer releases? Is Stern just that cheap, locking most toys to a premium and LE and forcing people that enjoy that kind of stuff to fork out an extra $1600? Seems wrong to me. I always go pro just because the core game is there minus the extras, but the extras are almost NEVER worth $1600. Maybe the T Rex, raptor bash toy, and the raptor lock in JP, but certainly not a piece of plastic with one flipper and a mech that’s only purpose is to get another multiball. Locking modes to extras is bull crap. It’s like Pinball DLC (see Jurassic Park topper for more info) Pros all day long.
Thanks for taking the time to do this vid i appreciate it, i feel the Pro is the way to go doesn't mean I'm gonna get one, will wait & see maybe. Honestly You're going on about the lexan playfied holding up, I've had a WPT with over 20K plays & it still looked ok, A HUO game will have less than 5K max, this is SR worst upper playfield hes ever done IMHO, He expressed freedom @ the start of the stream what a load of Horse shit, he is playing the stern party line just another stripped out stern game to maximize profit, My current Stern 24 has more built into it, WPT upper PF is miles better, I'm lucky i own a mint original BK that was shipped to me in Oz from my bud in San fran bay area, Munsters/BK worst designed games Ive seen, i had high expectations for these two awesome themes & they should have been much better, Art is passable on BG & cabinet but PF is just ok, Code seems ok for tims 1st effort, liking the LCD so far, God bless Layman he kicks ass, You know the game is flawed ( body language gives it away ) but don't wanna say it, anyway all the best & i like your work.
Yeah when they first announced the release I thought, I'm selling my trans am and putting a $1000 deposit on an LE . But now I'm thinking about buying the Diner I was looking at and going on a vacation as well as keeping the trans am. I'll have burger and fries
Black Knight 2000 is the best Black Knight table in my opinion. But sadly, it seems Steve Richie has lost his touch on genius pinball design as far as this table is concerned.
It may be that, but my guess is pinball has become stagnant for Stern specifically. It's a business decision to maximize profits. It's not like the heydays when they were all trying to outdo each other with interesting gimmicks/toys. Now it's more about making the cheapest possible basic table and building stuff on top of that to upsell others but not too much to completely neuter the Pro models, so they end up being really conservative tables. In a previous life that Black Knight would be the centerpiece of a table with other interesting shots and mechanics and gimmicks instead of what it is here, and that's the only real feature.
Went to Golden State Pinball fest... played the pro and the premium... I like this upper playfield more than TSPP and even POTC, shadow or TZ. Stern and Ritchie killin it as usual :)
I didn't feel the upper play field looked great either when I was watching the stream. Hopefully it's more fun to play than it was to watch. Very hyped for this game either way, pro or premium!
I finally played the Pro at Pinfest. It's a good game, some neat things but I am no longer debating buying it. It just feels sparse. Not enough shots to make/varied things to do compared to BK2K. The Black Knight gimmick the table is built around is great, but it's really the only feature and it's just not enough to support an entire table. The music is probably the biggest dissapointment. It's good, but it's a short repetitive loop for most of your gameplay. BK2K changed the longer you played and when you accomplished things, this one just seemed like the same snippet over and over. The lack of lyrics also hurts it. The screen's animations are fairly nice (though they still look a bit cheap) and fairly varied but that doesn't make up for the lack of variety on the playfield. The Magnasave placement is sadly utter BS. I doubt even playing it with an upper playfield will change my mind about it being a weak table(and honestly, looking at the upper playfield, I fear it will only be a negative once I get to play it).
Damn dude! Tell us how you really feel? lol. I still haven't gotten around to seeking one out to play. I know where one is located - just got to muster the will to drive there.
Here in Canada pins are very expensive due our shitty dollar. A pro will set you back about 7500 bucks. A LE or premium will set you back 10000 plus . i would only get a pro due to the fact parts will be easy to get in a couple years when shit starts breaking. And the biggest piss off to pinball in Canada is shipping from the usa is insanely high. (Marcos specialties) I love pinball. Its one of the coolest things out there. But shiping cost has killed the fun of this hobby for me. Great videos dude.
This review was spot on. Initially, I felt the same way in that you needed the Premium/LE to get the upper playfield. The montage of video Cary assembled clearly demonstrates the upper flipper doesn't look that fun to shoot. There is a clear lack of control up top with a lot of clunkiness in the shots where the flipper actually connects with the ball. I am leaning toward the pro right now being the better over game / value. Looking forward to playing both version to find out for sure... On another note, I played your Last Action Hero @ TPF. What a great looking and playing machine. Thanks for bringing it to the show.
This has been my concern since the debuted the images. In general I almost never like mini playfields but thought that BK had to have it. I'm done buying sight unseen(unplayed) anymore. We waited to get Iron Maiden because of the buying a few games that we later realized we didn't like as much as we thought. Maiden turned out to be awesome. I hope BK does too!!
Cary Hardy it’s our (The Pinball Mafia’s) opinion right now that Maiden has surpassed Metallica as Sterns best game to date. To me personally maiden plays like a Lawlor game and has mad code to back it up. We too got a pro of it as the other two seem to slow the game down for the sake of gimmicks that are prone to break. But back to BK. I want this to be a huge success for Stern! Them letting Steve do a non licensed theme is a big deal.
Soooo disappointed. I dont even think I want a pro. Heavy right flipper (typical bk) Music gets old after 5 minutes. This game definitely needs to be played first for me but I think I'm out
What covers the lower playfields in games like the Munsters and AC/DC? Are they not just lexan as well. The material doesn't seem like an issue, the problem is the upper playfield looks half assed and not much fun.
:/ I was looking into getting a job just to be able to purchase this game, now... I don't know. Just like you I feel I NEED to play it first after seeing gameplay. An Upper Playfield is really important in a Black Knight IMO and if it is as meh to play as it seems, the full game needs to make me want it VERY badly for me to get it because I already own BK2K. I'm now on the fence between getting it if I like the premium or not at all and sadly, unless I really fall for it while playing it, it's leaning a lot closer to not at all. Funny, because when they announced it, I was certain in it being a slam dunk purchase for me.
Thoroughly disappointed. And your points about the upper playfield, I echo as well. It's an expensive gimmick, that serves very little purpose, and I feel cheated that the previous 2 machines simply had a better design, and entertainment. You're paying more, for less.
![ออกพรรษาน้ำตาหล่น - แอน อรดี [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PFZtOcY9ONA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[UNCUT] “อภิสิทธิ์” ครม.อุ๊งอิ๊ง แย่งเก้าอี้กันฝุ่นตลบ “ทักษิณ” บงการเอง Iคนดังนั่งเคลียร์I 21ส.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/a_b-kItw2jY/mqdefault.jpg)
Old video I know, but for those contemplating buying a Black Knight, yes the Pro is a better playing game. It has more flow and is more focused on progressing through the creature modes to get to the wizard modes. You also have a much better view of the WAR lanes and can clearly see where each of the shots will send the ball to. I had a chance to purchase a Premium at a very attractive price, went with the Pro anyway, and have zero regrets. It's an underrated game that is challenging and a lot of fun to play.
I’m in for a pro. I typically buy pro machines anyway the little extra gimmicks that they install for the premium just are never worth the money.
And if you ever get tired of the game and go to sell it, pros are easier to get your investment back. A lot of people don’t want to pay premium prices for a used game
It would have been nice if the upper play field had more features similar to the 6 rollover lanes, 3 pop bumpers, 3 stand up targets and motorized drawbridge found on the version from 30 years ago.
Or the 6 drop targets, 1 pop bumper, 2 flippers, and ball lock mechanism of the original from 39 years ago!
These new Sterns are starting to feel all the same to me...
It has been feeling that way for a few years now.
They've taken the cheap option, with expensive after market parts. They haven't had an original game for years.
@@gallimead iron maiden won game of the year. It AND deadpool have very unique layouts. 2018 was a good year......2019 has been terrible so far
Upper playfield is only to lock the ball into the Catapult Lock. The fun with BK2K was ripping the skyway loop over and over. Not on this one, you shoot the loop and lock the ball. Unfortunately, Catapult multiball will not be available on the Pro. The strategy with the Premium and LE is trying to lock 3 balls on the lower playfield and locking 3 balls on the upper to start 2 multiballs at once. Looks like the whole upper playfield is going to be a pain to muck around with. The pro is fast and smooth and has a fast loop wrap around shot. The Premium and LE seem a little slower and the fact that you're distracted with that upper playfield. The games need to be played before purchase for sure.
I own the PRO SOR and I love it. I played the premium one before buying Pro and enjoy the Pro better. The upper playfield feels like an add on afterthought that was not well thought out or integrated well into the flow of the game.
It's a double edged sword - no pun intended.... Buying a black knight without an upper playfield seems like blasphemy - black knight pinballs and upper playfields just go together. So buying one without an upper playfield won't seem right. Having said that, I totally agree with your assessment after watching (and thanks a ton for taking the time to edit the stream to focus on the upper playfield). But I was like WTF?!? when I saw the ball action up there. So disappointing. Hopefully getting a chance to play it will change my mind, but it looks doubtful.
Have to agree with most of your concerns. I went in on an LE but very concerned after watching the stream about the the flow of the game on the LE. I was pumped after watching the Pro, It looked incredible. Then when they got to the LE the upper play field was just Meh at best for me. I thought the game didn't flow as well with it... I'm gonna stick with the LE but only due to the Art and extras. VERY concerned how I'm going to like the upper play field.... Great thoughts btw and thanks for taking the time to do the vid!
Thanks for your time on the feedback! I think most share our concerns for this title now.
So were you happy with the LE?
The challenge of getting six-ball multi-balls (during regular gameplay by activating two independent three-ball multi-balls) is sufficient for me to go premium. I also like the cabinet art better too. My big art concern is the backglass: the pro and the mirrored limited backglass show the black knight twirling his fiery flail (it’s gorgeous, don’t get me wrong here.) Too bad those games aren’t called Black Knight Flail of Rage. But they’re not. Based on where the game is located, you may not see much of the side cabinet art. But you’ll always see the entire backglass. So I want the Black Knight in my game’s backglass to be wielding the Sword of Rage.
C'mon man - get on board the Black Knight Premium/LE train! There hasn't been an upper playfield this exciting since Rob Zombie!!! ;-)
Damn, bro. I was really hoping the upper play field would be fly af. However, I'm afraid I agree. It doesn't look like it adds anything to gameplay. I still like the side art better on the premium, but it's not 1500 dollars better. Let me know when you hit that barcade.
I'm a terrible judge of games based on video. I'd never buy a game without playing it first. The Pro looks great to me and I'm really looking forward to checking it out. It could possibly end up being my first NIB if I like how it shoots. Like you say, it's doing everything else right.
I had and amazing day with friends playing the pro in multiplayer, it is fast and clear, and seeing the other version, I do not miss the upper playfield.
I think the Pro version is great! With some artblades on that machine, it will be way awesome!
Yea..I think the Pro will be the best choice also after seeing the upper playfield in action..Just like you said..Not much to do up there and alot more cleaning headaches down the road..An OP is getting a Pro at a bar near me so can't wait to try it!!!
I have a pro coming in tomorrow. I watched a lot of game play from different machines, and nothing else flowed like this game. The speed, the classic theme, the retro modes, the Knight toy, all sold me.
My biggest issue with Stern these days is if you look at something like Iron Man which has a good amount of toys in it, (Monger, Whiplash, War Machine), and then look at Black Knight which has one (great) single toy. What happened between 2010 and now that we seem to get less innovation and toys with newer releases? Is Stern just that cheap, locking most toys to a premium and LE and forcing people that enjoy that kind of stuff to fork out an extra $1600? Seems wrong to me. I always go pro just because the core game is there minus the extras, but the extras are almost NEVER worth $1600. Maybe the T Rex, raptor bash toy, and the raptor lock in JP, but certainly not a piece of plastic with one flipper and a mech that’s only purpose is to get another multiball. Locking modes to extras is bull crap. It’s like Pinball DLC (see Jurassic Park topper for more info)
Pros all day long.
Thanks for taking the time to do this vid i appreciate it, i feel the Pro is the way to go doesn't mean I'm gonna get one, will wait & see maybe. Honestly You're going on about the lexan playfied holding up, I've had a WPT with over 20K plays & it still looked ok, A HUO game will have less than 5K max, this is SR worst upper playfield hes ever done IMHO, He expressed freedom @ the start of the stream what a load of Horse shit, he is playing the stern party line just another stripped out stern game to maximize profit, My current Stern 24 has more built into it, WPT upper PF is miles better, I'm lucky i own a mint original BK that was shipped to me in Oz from my bud in San fran bay area, Munsters/BK worst designed games Ive seen, i had high expectations for these two awesome themes & they should have been much better, Art is passable on BG & cabinet but PF is just ok, Code seems ok for tims 1st effort, liking the LCD so far, God bless Layman he kicks ass,
You know the game is flawed ( body language gives it away ) but don't wanna say it, anyway all the best & i like your work.
Yeah when they first announced the release I thought, I'm selling my trans am and putting a $1000 deposit on an LE . But now I'm thinking about buying the Diner I was looking at and going on a vacation as well as keeping the trans am.
I'll have burger and fries
Wanted to put it beside my BK & BK2000
Gonna wait till I can buy used at a deal ...... maybe
Black Knight 2000 is the best Black Knight table in my opinion. But sadly, it seems Steve Richie has lost his touch on genius pinball design as far as this table is concerned.
It may be that, but my guess is pinball has become stagnant for Stern specifically. It's a business decision to maximize profits. It's not like the heydays when they were all trying to outdo each other with interesting gimmicks/toys. Now it's more about making the cheapest possible basic table and building stuff on top of that to upsell others but not too much to completely neuter the Pro models, so they end up being really conservative tables. In a previous life that Black Knight would be the centerpiece of a table with other interesting shots and mechanics and gimmicks instead of what it is here, and that's the only real feature.
Black Knight 2000 and Medival Madness are my 2 favorite tables.
Went to Golden State Pinball fest... played the pro and the premium... I like this upper playfield more than TSPP and even POTC, shadow or TZ. Stern and Ritchie killin it as usual :)
I didn't feel the upper play field looked great either when I was watching the stream. Hopefully it's more fun to play than it was to watch. Very hyped for this game either way, pro or premium!
Two vids in 2 days!?! You spoil us!
Pro BKSOR is one of the worst modern pins I've played. I have a Deadpool Pro and these games aren't even in the same league.
Can you elaborate for me? Considering a good deal on a used BKSOR pro. Thanks.
Have you changed your mind yet? I think the premium is far superior. The canon lock is hard but VERY rewarding once you master it
I finally played the Pro at Pinfest.
It's a good game, some neat things but I am no longer debating buying it. It just feels sparse. Not enough shots to make/varied things to do compared to BK2K. The Black Knight gimmick the table is built around is great, but it's really the only feature and it's just not enough to support an entire table. The music is probably the biggest dissapointment. It's good, but it's a short repetitive loop for most of your gameplay. BK2K changed the longer you played and when you accomplished things, this one just seemed like the same snippet over and over. The lack of lyrics also hurts it. The screen's animations are fairly nice (though they still look a bit cheap) and fairly varied but that doesn't make up for the lack of variety on the playfield. The Magnasave placement is sadly utter BS.
I doubt even playing it with an upper playfield will change my mind about it being a weak table(and honestly, looking at the upper playfield, I fear it will only be a negative once I get to play it).
Damn dude! Tell us how you really feel? lol. I still haven't gotten around to seeking one out to play. I know where one is located - just got to muster the will to drive there.
Also, Stern is really over doing the red g.i. lately
Here in Canada pins are very expensive due our shitty dollar. A pro will set you back about 7500 bucks. A LE or premium will set you back 10000 plus . i would only get a pro due to the fact parts will be easy to get in a couple years when shit starts breaking. And the biggest piss off to pinball in Canada is shipping from the usa is insanely high. (Marcos specialties)
I love pinball. Its one of the coolest things out there. But shiping cost has killed the fun of this hobby for me. Great videos dude.
This review was spot on. Initially, I felt the same way in that you needed the Premium/LE to get the upper playfield. The montage of video Cary assembled clearly demonstrates the upper flipper doesn't look that fun to shoot. There is a clear lack of control up top with a lot of clunkiness in the shots where the flipper actually connects with the ball. I am leaning toward the pro right now being the better over game / value. Looking forward to playing both version to find out for sure... On another note, I played your Last Action Hero @ TPF. What a great looking and playing machine. Thanks for bringing it to the show.
Thank you for the kind words!
This has been my concern since the debuted the images. In general I almost never like mini playfields but thought that BK had to have it. I'm done buying sight unseen(unplayed) anymore. We waited to get Iron Maiden because of the buying a few games that we later realized we didn't like as much as we thought. Maiden turned out to be awesome. I hope BK does too!!
If I play BK and dont like it - then a pro maiden will be mine. Lots of fun.
Cary Hardy it’s our (The Pinball Mafia’s) opinion right now that Maiden has surpassed Metallica as Sterns best game to date. To me personally maiden plays like a Lawlor game and has mad code to back it up. We too got a pro of it as the other two seem to slow the game down for the sake of gimmicks that are prone to break. But back to BK. I want this to be a huge success for Stern! Them letting Steve do a non licensed theme is a big deal.
@@DennisMoncla I want it to do well too. For the sake of original themes.
Soooo disappointed.
I dont even think I want a pro.
Heavy right flipper (typical bk)
Music gets old after 5 minutes.
This game definitely needs to be played first for me but I think I'm out
What covers the lower playfields in games like the Munsters and AC/DC? Are they not just lexan as well. The material doesn't seem like an issue, the problem is the upper playfield looks half assed and not much fun.
I would assume the lexan on the covers of acdc and munsters would be easier to change due to no mechanics being attached to it though.
@@CaryHardy Fair enough, I think the original AC/DC was a pain to deal with but the vault you could get at from the top.
I'd pass on black knight altogether. Munsters or Elvira would be my pick.
Disagree with the perspective. Premium/LE is the only way to go.
So any change on your thoughts on the pro vs premium? I am looking to buy BKSOR. Thanks!
I would play both and decide for yourself. I would go for premium, but I don't like some of the decisions that were made on design on all versions.
Ya for me the pro whit mods is allmost always way nicer then a like a LE save the 1500 and spend it on the sick mods am sure are in the pipe line
:/
I was looking into getting a job just to be able to purchase this game, now... I don't know. Just like you I feel I NEED to play it first after seeing gameplay. An Upper Playfield is really important in a Black Knight IMO and if it is as meh to play as it seems, the full game needs to make me want it VERY badly for me to get it because I already own BK2K.
I'm now on the fence between getting it if I like the premium or not at all and sadly, unless I really fall for it while playing it, it's leaning a lot closer to not at all. Funny, because when they announced it, I was certain in it being a slam dunk purchase for me.
Same,...Pro looks better. Was holding off on buying MBr/special edition...Now I must rethink this....
Thoroughly disappointed. And your points about the upper playfield, I echo as well. It's an expensive gimmick, that serves very little purpose, and I feel cheated that the previous 2 machines simply had a better design, and entertainment. You're paying more, for less.