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This is a great episode ! Tommy asking all the right questions and Toby with the right answers , exposing " the good , the bad, and the ugly" . Great analysis on Tommy's wrap-up on the car. Hopefully , there will be more episodes like this .
The auxiliary batteries are important on these. I had a customer whose power steering was intermittently locking up. The dealership told them they needed a new rack and should probably just trade it in because it was so expensive to repair. They brought it to me. It had a weak battery and auxiliary battery. We changed them out and lo and behold the power steering has no issues now. All of those electronic modules rely on having the right voltage getting to them to work. The auxiliary battery supports them.
German here , back in the days a 10 year old Mercedes was just well driven in ! W108 W111 W123 W124 W126 Today , a 10 year old Merc is well driven to its live end...😥😎
W203, W210, W163's are beasts.. good for 200+ miles. Along with my W108 I also have a W166 BT w/ 190k miles. Turbo and injectors replaced under warranty and is still is a pleasure to drive. :)
Toby’s knowledge is impressive, and he explains things very well. I would feel fortunate to find an independent technician of his caliber. Tommy, your presentation and hosting skills have compounded. Great job, and keep up the good work!
I’d trust him with maintaining my identical GL. Can I afford him is another question. One thing missed or glossed over was how important it is to look for water intrusion in the trunk and underneath the front seats in these cars. If you have water in the floorboards, your electronics are mostly fried and that becomes a parts car not economically worth fixing or working on.
While there are some expensive repairs in here when averaged over time, it's not awful. It's a German luxury car so parts aren't going to be cheap. While preventative maintenence is expensive like toby said better to spend $700 every few years then 6 to 7k in one go.
It’s been interesting to watch the evolution of MB. Not to many years ago, their reliability outshined the Japanese. MB is now so complicated and sensitive, I believe they’re designed to be lease vehicles. Scheduled maintenance and anticipated repairs are quite expensive once out of warranty.
But one thing I’ve noticed with MBs is that the engine seems to be reliably decent. It’s just the other stuff, like the GL’s Airmatic suspension, that doesn’t have to do with the powertrain are the high maintenance ones.
@@unknownunknownsit depends on what your definition of the ‘power train’ is… The metal components are decent, it’s the shift to all the plastic components and poor quality seals that are the problem. Plastic intake manifolds/valve covers/oil pans… rear main engine seal starts seeping on most models +\- 40K miles. I could go on-and-on about all the plastic that fails around 50K miles. BMW and Audi the same. It brings me no pleasure to say this- MB/BMW are beautiful legendary cars that still have excellent performance, handling, aesthetics and driver experience. They just begin to deteriorate at 50K miles…
I am second owner of 2006 Mercedes GL x164 320CDI that has done 490 000 miles. I've had this GL for the last 7 years. I honestly cannot understand where is this reliability thing coming. The engine is same as a Mercedes VAN. Gearbox is the same as on ton of other Mercedes models and air suspension is quite standard on ton of Mercedes cars. For example youtuber Car Wizard has Mercedes W164 as a ''buy'' and one of the best used Mercedes models you can buy. But he hates GL. But ML and GL... it's literally the same car. I'm on original engine, original turbo, original injectors, original gearbox etc etc. The only thing given out are water pump, alternator and starter motor. That's it for engine compartment. The mechanics are rock solid. However... if you are one of these dudes who needs to have every single comfort feature on the car work at all times and soon as something does not work you panic and take it to the dealer you will go broke. Because the car does have ton of useless electronic features that break down a lot. Right now on my car... passenger side mirror does not fold in, radio comad does not work, one rear dvd screen does not boot up, rear automatic boot does not work, rear door locks do not work it leaves rear doors open, rear 3rd row electric seats one of them does not come up. If i scan my car it has like 26 codes at all times all related to some useless stuff. I've had friends say like oh your sat nav does not work... camon it's a 2006 car... it would be useless anyway in 2023? Now if i were to take it to the dealer to get all that electronic stuff fixed up i would go broke. And after two weeks some of that electric stuff would break down again. But i honestly do not care. It fires up without missing a beat and mechanics is all rock solid. For last 2 years i've done nothing but oil change. I think i should start a channel for that car. I mean half a mill miles is just around the corner. There's so much misinformation about these from people who have never owned one.
Tommy. Some good numbers and breakdown but interesting things to know. 1) How much did the car cost and how long was the warranty 2) Of the $27k of additional costs over the 17 years, about $15k was routine Service. So of the $12k of repair costs, do you know how much of that was covered by MB under warranty. Would be good to know how much the car actually cost the lady in Total, over the 17 years and xxx miles.
The comment in the previous video said it all: "Ton of maintenance at the dealer." It's a novel idea to turn something like that into an off roader, but with Mercedes reputation for poor reliability I think a prospective owner would be hard pressed to justify the expenditure. This example has had a lot of work apparently just driving on paved roads. Imagine how poorly it would hold up in more rugged conditions!
I had a 2011 ML350 for 7 years. Just sold it last year. That car never gave me a day of trouble. Never even saw a CEL on it. Most reliable car I've ever owned. 182k miles.
I can't beleive he uses Arnot, I worked at an auto parts store for 6 years, after 3 years I quit selling Arnot to customers due to over half of them coming back under warranty. Another comapny I would never sell is Tomco rebuilt carbs. They all came back under warranty withing 30 days.
With all due respect- most of these mechanics are full of crap. The arnott front strut is $290 each and the rear is $180 each on Rockauto. The compressor is about $400. Labor is not that hard and shouldn’t be more than 2 hours per side. So like $500 for both sides. Where the hell did he get 3k from? Only way you spend 3k for the front struts is if you got the dealer where they charge 1k per strut. Research people. Message boards and google are your friend.
I can tell why Toby likes those Mercs: "Most of the time, the air bag suspension typically only lasts 60-80k .. The front airbags are astronomically expensive"
At least, he wants to ‘expand’ his horizons by fixing something new, instead of just the engine, which MB doesn’t seem to have an issue with, unlike other brands.
All the ancillaries and parts have a lifecycle, if the maintenance schedule is followed then they aren’t that bad. What usually happens is that they depreciate into the hands of those who believe cars do not need maintaining and thus build up a lot of deferred maintenance and therefore failures.
I am on my third Mercedes (still have two, one got totaled, grr) and I am pleased how TFL and Toby handled this vehicle. His knowledge was very thorough and I do think it shows that particularly if you DIY you can absolutely enjoy a highly depreciated example.
Those suspension prices are/have to be including labor at a shop to install. If you have a decent Indy shop or better yet, can DIY your own repairs, you can do all four corners for far less than people quote a lot of times. And as with any vehicle - regardless of make - the ongoing maintenance on it will fully depend on how it was taken care of originally. My GL550 is just under 200k miles, original engine, and in the 4 years I've owned it, it's cost me less than $1000 per year in upkeep, including all four corners air suspension (very recently). Battery, Alternator, thermostat and a transfer case rebuild. But it's been absolutely rock solid in the 100k I've put on it. But it all comes down to how it was treated in it's past.
I put 250K on a 08 GL550 and currently own an 11 ML550. If you can wrench they're actually not that expensive to own. For the most part, the consumables/wear items aren't substantially more expensive than other cars and the engine and transmission last a long time if you take care of them. If you can avoid the air suspension (impossible on a GL), I would. It is a source of endless expensive issues.
Good stuff. The only thing, you want to make sure you replace the aux battery sooner than later, because if it goes completely dead your shifter will no longer work, you will be locked in park.
Tommy and Toby, Thanks for this highly educational MASTERCLASS in the perils of German car ownership.👏👏👏I would estimate that an equivalent Lexus LX would have required 50% less expenditure on maintenance and repair over the same time period. It also seems there is plenty of work pending $$$$ on this Mercedes for the future owner. We also get the impression the Diesel version is even worse. 🤨
Here In Australia, a 2nd hand mercedez is the most expensiclve cheap car you can buy 🤣 Parts cost an arm and a leg here, and an AMG will cost you a kidney aswell 😂
Just sold out 2015 x166 gl550 - cost be about 5k last year replacing all the turbo coolant hoses, waterpump, pullies, front air strut. That was the 'friend' price from my buddies shop (I did the front strut myself after it exploded!). I've tapped out as I don't want to deal with the fallout for a turbo or timing chains or tranny issue at 110k. I may consider a non-turbo variant in the future.
Great cars I have a 2008 ML 320 cdi with 237,000 miles. Aside from break jobs and tires it has been bulletproof, still running original water pump… I don’t know of another smaller suv with 26 gallon tank and 600+ mile range.
Exactly right on the independent shops saving you lots of money in the long run on the German cars, we've got a 5 series and our local BMW shop keeps her running without breaking our bank.
Worst dealer service experience I ever had was the Mercedes dealer just outside of Boulder that she probably used. As soon as the warranty was up, the service advisor told me I needed about $7500 in repairs for a front wheel bearing and a timing chain gasket. At 40,000 miles!!! An independent shop said otherwise, and 3 years later still no front end or oil leaks. Just one of several interactions that soured me on Mercedes. Patricia likely did not even need a new lift motor.
bolt head is called an eTorx. You have had them before, you just didn't know it. Rear bolts on the front seats of a Discovery 2 uses them. Fronts are torx, just the 2 rear bolts are etorx.
I had the 5.5 liter version of this engine in my 09 Clk550. Insane power in a little coupe. Most powerful car I've ever owned. Even at high altitude the 2 lane passing capabilities with the 7 speed was insane.
Our 2010 GL450 has been such a great car. 165k miles and only a starter replacement... thing still looks almost new and handles off road so very well. Even tows our 6500 pound trailer with ease. Problems with the mercedes are usually due to poor maintenance by second / third owners. Although the first two years had a few issues so i'd buy a 2009 or newer GL
LMAO I don’t know how many times I’ve had a customer say “Oh it’s such an old vehicle why is the labor so much” or It’s an old (insert high end car) why are the parts so expensive? Just because it’s old didn’t suddenly reduce the labor time and just because that once $100K+ car has depreciated to the price of a new corolla doesn’t always make the parts cheaper either and when you use the cheaper aftermarket they sometimes cause more issues. Almost $28K in maintenance and service really isn’t bad for a 17yr old MB that was dealer serviced. You’re right the owner definitely loved her vehicle usually most seek an independent shop after the warranty period is up. The problem is when you pay that dealer service pricing and receive less than stellar dealer service or you can’t find a competent independent technician like Toby to service the vehicle
2007 GL450. Now 164k.Everyting works, Loads of room in the 3 rows of seats. Replaced front air shocks, repainted left rear fender (clearcoat was coming off) and the occasional light bulb. Looks great, pleasure to drive. I use liqui-moly in the engine coolant and oil (just me). Highly recommend Michelin tires.
We have a 2012 GL 550. Bought it with 80k mile and it now has 213k. Replaced the starter and alternator and a few minor things so I'd consider the drivetrain to be excellent. The Achilles heel is the airbag suspension and rapid tire wear. Those two things really bring the car down. Literally.
As a senior Mercedes tech (dealer), it is always fascinating to watch how an independent tech assesses these vehicles. Toby did well and it is obvious that he has experience with them. He has some misses on what certain components actually do but at the end of the day it is irrelevant. My advice to current and future owners is to shop the dealer against independents in their area. I’m in Houston and pretty much all of the decent/good indies around us are more expensive than us while often using inferior parts. You can have bad apples in both camps so do some research and trust your gut.
Thank you Tommy & Tobby, I worked at an Audi/Landcruiser dealership, and many used Benz SUVs traded in, many mechanically JUNK (needing thousands $$) and only 5/50k on them. I fell in love with the '15 GLK 350 - but that would be a wallet drainer
The sole purpose of the auxiliary battery on a X164 is to be able to engage park if the battery loses power, since the transmission is shifted with its own servo motor.
I bought my parts from Arnott and my indy puts them in for shop labor. It saved me thousands. If they go bad the parts are covered but I would have to pay the labor again. It's still worth it. My GL550 has ADS. I replaced all for corners, the ADS shocks, the compressor, and the block valve for $4000. The transmission on these cars should be serviced every 40,000 to 50,000 miles.
The battery under the seat is very big and heavy. Costco sells a replacement for a good price. They last 10 years. You don’t need to take off the seat, but if you don’t then you need a lot of muscle strength.
No idea if the same thing was/is done by MB in the US, but where i am from, from i think 2002 onwards, they offered a 30 year mobility warranty. (for every MB) That meant each time you let the car be serviced/oil changed at the MB dealership you get a mobility warranty extended for another year (up to 30 years). That mobility warranty means you can call the number when you are stranded, and they will send a tow truck or a mechanic, and they will make sure you get to your destination. I have called them. At a saturday at around 10 pm when i had a flat tire. Before that i looked through the folder because i didn't think they would cover that. But nothing in the folder said otherwise so i tried it. ->They looked up the last service of the car, and organized a tow truck and because they weren't able to get me a rental car or train ticket, they organized and paid a night in the nearest hotel and would have paid for the train ticket the next day (which i didn't need) For that kind of road side assitance you always have to pay, either by joining some road side assistance club or organization or by the little higher parts prices at the dealership.
I own a later model X164 than the one in the video (post facelift), GL450 (2011 MY) since new and it has been flawless. It now has about 110K miles and the very first thing that failed was the radiator fan motor just last month. That's right, after 13 years of ownership I only have had one part failing!!! I had the air suspension replaced at all four corners between 70K-80K but I consider air struts consumables just like tires and brakes. My experience with Mercedes cars has been excellent and have owned 4 so far in my lifetime. I believe that cars post facelift have better reliability record and usually I buy models that are "mature" so that the manufacturer has enough time to fix issues. I also maintain all my cars myself following the MB maintenance schedule religiously using OEM or better parts. Never cheap subsitutes.
Toby is great! His knowledge is incredible. Why would anyone spend $6000, and then sell the vehicle a few months later for $8000? That makes zero sense.
She got a great deal on dealership oil changes. My dealer wanted over $500 for an oil change and tire rotation. I assume my GL550 takes more oil than a 450 but still.
Love this series. Well done Tommy! Toby is looking really comfortable on camera now. Great job! And regarding the expense: I'd rather have this with the refined interior and ride than a terrible driving experience like a Toyota.
I took a GL450 from 85k miles to 140k and no issues at all except for the air suspension compressor which is very easy to replace. How the previous owner of your GL spent $27,000 is WILD I have spent maybe $600 total for 65,000 miles. It has a few oil leaks but as long as it is small and you check fluids its not a big deal. Mine has only minor leaks hardly even changes the level after like 5000 miles. I do my own oil changes, everyone charges too much when it is very cheap, oil filter on amazon is like $15 to $20. Oil is simple Mobile1 European formula, very straight forward.
i just picked up a gl450 2011 not a rattle from it drives like brand new all new air shocks brakes and all recalls serviced on it fluid change and a Mercedes inspection all done by Mercedes for $6,500 thing looks brand new inside and out loving it so far mine has the off road package on it as well.
Had a GL350 diesel. It was a 2 year lease. Mercedes had to buy it back as they couldn’t get it to run right. The check engine light would not turn off. They even sent an engineer from Germany to look at it. It was a 2012. Junk! Discontinued in 2015. Had 450’s and 550’s too. The gear selector broke right off the column. No way to put it in park or reverse. Had to call the dealer then use a pen to put it in park….lol. Had a few with the off road package, we had to order them that way. Used it in snow but not actually off road. I was a driver so I drove lots of them and ordered new ones upon lease expiration. The gas ones were pretty good in general but expensive as they aged, we leased but the MB service manager was my friend and he told me they turn into money pits.
Yes, it costs a lot of money to keep a Mercedes Benz on the road. I have an Edition 507 Sedan, and one year, I spent $4,300+ to have it serviced. That did include some wear items like tires though.
I almost bought one of these, but the ones with the off-road package are almost impossible to find. They are also huge. Got a Jaguar F-Pace instead that blew a turbo at 67k (!) which is a bummer as it's a great car. Got a 2012 Grand Cherokee that's got some issues, but nothing disastrous.
Toby is brilliant Great mechanic He clearly knows these vehicles extremely well. Bottom line, service your car properly and regularly Do the required maintenance etc Don’t thrash the vehicle And it shouldn’t have major unexpected problems or issues Real pity that Benz and others put the battery in a place that makes it very difficult to get to Huge labour cost just to change a battery And a battery is an item that will need replacement every few years ! I’d definitely spend the $$$ to service the transmission
I don't think that $1700 per year on average is bad for a 17 year old luxury SUV tbh if you keep in mind that this was at the dealer. Oil changes, air filters and other regular service stuff can be done for a lot less than this without really sacrificing on quality. Also, most people would probably just operate the hatch manually after the motor failed, saving another $6000. Really does seem like these are not that bad.
Yep my ml350 had that transfer case clunk which we ended up selling on to a Mercedes flipper who said he knew exactly what the issue was . It’s super annoying when your indies can’t diagnose this issue.
I’ve found TH-cam videos very easy to follow to fix anything on my 380,000 gl450. Don’t be fooled by people who think they can’t diy repair and service this car. You can.
Those airbag struts are NOT 3 grand. I've literally replaced my own and the full bag and strut assembly was 1/10th that price (About $280 per side, half that for rears). I don't know where he's getting those numbers or he must be quoting the full price for both shocks from a stealership, labor, and the dealer's insane shop markup. They _are_ kind of a pain to do yourself (any suspension job is with ANY car), but quite doable with a little patience and no exotic specialty tools. Then if you do just the bags themselves they're under $100 each, but the bags can be difficult to separate from the struts and if you're doing all that labor you may as well just replace the struts while they're out. I've owned 3 Mercedes over the last decade and a half and I've always done my own maintenance and repairs on my cars. The first rule to owning a Mercedes Benz is if you're out of warranty you never, _EVER_ buy parts from the dealership. They think they're selling parts for the space shuttle but for much of the world, especially Europe, MB is just another brand selling all kinds of cars from affordable vans and compacts to uber luxury, and their global part prices reflect that. It's just the US dealerships that treat the US consumer like they're stupid because honestly, most Mercedes owners ARE stupid and pay WAY too much for not really _that_ nice of a car. Buy used, fix it yourself and Mercedes can literally be cheaper to maintain than a Toyota.
My x164 GL450 2008 has 380,000 miles on it so far. Awesome car. I’ve had it since 25,000 miles and will happily look for a low mileage X164 when this one dies. Trouble is that it still drives smoothly, with its original engine and transmission and it may have another 100,000+ more miles left in it. Parts are much cheaper these days too. Just don’t trust MB stealer ships and keep costs down by repairing yourself using TH-cam.
Once upon a time MBs were special. They were complex but well engineered cars meant to be maintained. And when needed, high quality parts were readily available and not too terribly expensive. That all reversed maybe 15 years ago (like this GL with two batteries under a SEAT) and most all replacements parts turning to crap. Which explains why our last several cars have been Mazdas, with an odd Chevy Bolt in the current fleet. MBs aren’t special anymore.
This is why we go to Toby. And he’s a fan favorite way to tommy. Well done guys. Toby your tremendous bud I can’t wait for the day Toby looks at a vehicle and says. Unsubscribe from this and get your money back immediately. Hopefully this year
That mechanic is probably the place every Mercedes owner should take their car, even from new and get a much better quality and value service than they would at the MB dealership. The warranty would probably be unaffected if they follow the MB service schedule and stamp the book.
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If you’re ever injured in an accident, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. You can start your claim in just a click without having to leave your couch. To start your claim, visit: www.forthepeople.com/TFL
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I remember Toby’s first videos years back. Wow. Toby’s on-camera presence is quite refined.
I noticed that too, he seemed awkward before, total pro today.
Right?! I just came into the comments to say that.
Very knowledgeable young man- appreciate his expertise and professionalism
This is a great episode ! Tommy asking all the right questions and Toby with the right answers , exposing " the good , the bad, and the ugly" . Great analysis on Tommy's wrap-up on the car. Hopefully , there will be more episodes like this .
A mechanic with good skills is important, but having a great reputation is key. Stay honest and trustworthy like Toby👍
Toby is incredibly thorough, why not do a series on the the top 10 most frequent vehicles that come into his shop
The auxiliary batteries are important on these. I had a customer whose power steering was intermittently locking up. The dealership told them they needed a new rack and should probably just trade it in because it was so expensive to repair. They brought it to me. It had a weak battery and auxiliary battery. We changed them out and lo and behold the power steering has no issues now. All of those electronic modules rely on having the right voltage getting to them to work. The auxiliary battery supports them.
German here , back in the days a 10 year old Mercedes was just well driven in ! W108 W111 W123 W124 W126
Today , a 10 year old Merc is well driven to its live end...😥😎
W203, W210, W163's are beasts.. good for 200+ miles. Along with my W108 I also have a W166 BT w/ 190k miles. Turbo and injectors replaced under warranty and is still is a pleasure to drive. :)
This is gold. If I knew about Toby I wouldn’t have sold my G63. More videos with Toby!
What difference does it make 🤷🏻♂️ it’s not hard working on those cars…
Toby’s knowledge is impressive, and he explains things very well. I would feel fortunate to find an independent technician of his caliber.
Tommy, your presentation and hosting skills have compounded. Great job, and keep up the good work!
I’d trust him with maintaining my identical GL. Can I afford him is another question.
One thing missed or glossed over was how important it is to look for water intrusion in the trunk and underneath the front seats in these cars. If you have water in the floorboards, your electronics are mostly fried and that becomes a parts car not economically worth fixing or working on.
While there are some expensive repairs in here when averaged over time, it's not awful. It's a German luxury car so parts aren't going to be cheap. While preventative maintenence is expensive like toby said better to spend $700 every few years then 6 to 7k in one go.
It’s been interesting to watch the evolution of MB. Not to many years ago, their reliability outshined the Japanese. MB is now so complicated and sensitive, I believe they’re designed to be lease vehicles. Scheduled maintenance and anticipated repairs are quite expensive once out of warranty.
But one thing I’ve noticed with MBs is that the engine seems to be reliably decent. It’s just the other stuff, like the GL’s Airmatic suspension, that doesn’t have to do with the powertrain are the high maintenance ones.
@@unknownunknownsit depends on what your definition of the ‘power train’ is… The metal components are decent, it’s the shift to all the plastic components and poor quality seals that are the problem. Plastic intake manifolds/valve covers/oil pans… rear main engine seal starts seeping on most models +\- 40K miles. I could go on-and-on about all the plastic that fails around 50K miles. BMW and Audi the same. It brings me no pleasure to say this- MB/BMW are beautiful legendary cars that still have excellent performance, handling, aesthetics and driver experience. They just begin to deteriorate at 50K miles…
I am second owner of 2006 Mercedes GL x164 320CDI that has done 490 000 miles. I've had this GL for the last 7 years. I honestly cannot understand where is this reliability thing coming. The engine is same as a Mercedes VAN. Gearbox is the same as on ton of other Mercedes models and air suspension is quite standard on ton of Mercedes cars. For example youtuber Car Wizard has Mercedes W164 as a ''buy'' and one of the best used Mercedes models you can buy. But he hates GL. But ML and GL... it's literally the same car. I'm on original engine, original turbo, original injectors, original gearbox etc etc. The only thing given out are water pump, alternator and starter motor. That's it for engine compartment. The mechanics are rock solid. However... if you are one of these dudes who needs to have every single comfort feature on the car work at all times and soon as something does not work you panic and take it to the dealer you will go broke. Because the car does have ton of useless electronic features that break down a lot. Right now on my car... passenger side mirror does not fold in, radio comad does not work, one rear dvd screen does not boot up, rear automatic boot does not work, rear door locks do not work it leaves rear doors open, rear 3rd row electric seats one of them does not come up. If i scan my car it has like 26 codes at all times all related to some useless stuff. I've had friends say like oh your sat nav does not work... camon it's a 2006 car... it would be useless anyway in 2023? Now if i were to take it to the dealer to get all that electronic stuff fixed up i would go broke. And after two weeks some of that electric stuff would break down again. But i honestly do not care. It fires up without missing a beat and mechanics is all rock solid. For last 2 years i've done nothing but oil change. I think i should start a channel for that car. I mean half a mill miles is just around the corner. There's so much misinformation about these from people who have never owned one.
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. MB engines, unlike other brands, have been reliable while the other stuff have been iffy.
Tommy. Some good numbers and breakdown but interesting things to know. 1) How much did the car cost and how long was the warranty 2) Of the $27k of additional costs over the 17 years, about $15k was routine Service. So of the $12k of repair costs, do you know how much of that was covered by MB under warranty. Would be good to know how much the car actually cost the lady in Total, over the 17 years and xxx miles.
"It's no worse than any other Mercedes." That is the best line of the video.
The comment in the previous video said it all: "Ton of maintenance at the dealer."
It's a novel idea to turn something like that into an off roader, but with Mercedes reputation for poor reliability I think a prospective owner would be hard pressed to justify the expenditure. This example has had a lot of work apparently just driving on paved roads. Imagine how poorly it would hold up in more rugged conditions!
I had a 2011 ML350 for 7 years. Just sold it last year. That car never gave me a day of trouble. Never even saw a CEL on it. Most reliable car I've ever owned. 182k miles.
My GL450 is 15 years old same age as my eldest son. I still drive it to this day.
I can't beleive he uses Arnot, I worked at an auto parts store for 6 years, after 3 years I quit selling Arnot to customers due to over half of them coming back under warranty. Another comapny I would never sell is Tomco rebuilt carbs. They all came back under warranty withing 30 days.
With all due respect- most of these mechanics are full of crap. The arnott front strut is $290 each and the rear is $180 each on Rockauto. The compressor is about $400. Labor is not that hard and shouldn’t be more than 2 hours per side. So like $500 for both sides. Where the hell did he get 3k from? Only way you spend 3k for the front struts is if you got the dealer where they charge 1k per strut. Research people. Message boards and google are your friend.
I can tell why Toby likes those Mercs: "Most of the time, the air bag suspension typically only lasts 60-80k .. The front airbags are astronomically expensive"
At least, he wants to ‘expand’ his horizons by fixing something new, instead of just the engine, which MB doesn’t seem to have an issue with, unlike other brands.
All the ancillaries and parts have a lifecycle, if the maintenance schedule is followed then they aren’t that bad. What usually happens is that they depreciate into the hands of those who believe cars do not need maintaining and thus build up a lot of deferred maintenance and therefore failures.
I am on my third Mercedes (still have two, one got totaled, grr) and I am pleased how TFL and Toby handled this vehicle. His knowledge was very thorough and I do think it shows that particularly if you DIY you can absolutely enjoy a highly depreciated example.
I hope Toby is on here more often! His knowledge and experience is just amazing and I always learn something new when he’s on.
Those suspension prices are/have to be including labor at a shop to install. If you have a decent Indy shop or better yet, can DIY your own repairs, you can do all four corners for far less than people quote a lot of times. And as with any vehicle - regardless of make - the ongoing maintenance on it will fully depend on how it was taken care of originally. My GL550 is just under 200k miles, original engine, and in the 4 years I've owned it, it's cost me less than $1000 per year in upkeep, including all four corners air suspension (very recently). Battery, Alternator, thermostat and a transfer case rebuild. But it's been absolutely rock solid in the 100k I've put on it. But it all comes down to how it was treated in it's past.
I put 250K on a 08 GL550 and currently own an 11 ML550. If you can wrench they're actually not that expensive to own. For the most part, the consumables/wear items aren't substantially more expensive than other cars and the engine and transmission last a long time if you take care of them. If you can avoid the air suspension (impossible on a GL), I would. It is a source of endless expensive issues.
Good stuff. The only thing, you want to make sure you replace the aux battery sooner than later, because if it goes completely dead your shifter will no longer work, you will be locked in park.
That is so dumb. Leave it to the Germans to come up with something as asinine as that.
Tommy and Toby, Thanks for this highly educational MASTERCLASS in the perils of German car ownership.👏👏👏I would estimate that an equivalent Lexus LX would have required 50% less expenditure on maintenance and repair over the same time period. It also seems there is plenty of work pending $$$$ on this Mercedes for the future owner. We also get the impression the Diesel version is even worse. 🤨
Here In Australia, a 2nd hand mercedez is the most expensiclve cheap car you can buy 🤣
Parts cost an arm and a leg here, and an AMG will cost you a kidney aswell 😂
German cars are expensive junk
Same story everywhere I would think.
Phong cách sống Úc chỉ phù hợp với XE HƠI NHẬT BẢN
@@mikefoehr235 yeah especially because German engineers do thing weirdly different to the rest of the world 😆
@@YessirPauly man do they ever.
Just sold out 2015 x166 gl550 - cost be about 5k last year replacing all the turbo coolant hoses, waterpump, pullies, front air strut. That was the 'friend' price from my buddies shop (I did the front strut myself after it exploded!). I've tapped out as I don't want to deal with the fallout for a turbo or timing chains or tranny issue at 110k. I may consider a non-turbo variant in the future.
Hi, I got stuck between Turbo and nonturbo: trying to make a decision about which one to buy X164 or X166. May be 2012 GL 550?
Great cars
I have a 2008 ML 320 cdi with 237,000 miles. Aside from break jobs and tires it has been bulletproof, still running original water pump… I don’t know of another smaller suv with 26 gallon tank and 600+ mile range.
Exactly right on the independent shops saving you lots of money in the long run on the German cars, we've got a 5 series and our local BMW shop keeps her running without breaking our bank.
$6k for a liftgate motor?! Someone wanted that vehicle on trade or didn't want the job. The part is around $500
Worst dealer service experience I ever had was the Mercedes dealer just outside of Boulder that she probably used. As soon as the warranty was up, the service advisor told me I needed about $7500 in repairs for a front wheel bearing and a timing chain gasket. At 40,000 miles!!! An independent shop said otherwise, and 3 years later still no front end or oil leaks. Just one of several interactions that soured me on Mercedes. Patricia likely did not even need a new lift motor.
Reverse torx is also called “e-torx”
bolt head is called an eTorx. You have had them before, you just didn't know it. Rear bolts on the front seats of a Discovery 2 uses them. Fronts are torx, just the 2 rear bolts are etorx.
I had the 5.5 liter version of this engine in my 09 Clk550. Insane power in a little coupe. Most powerful car I've ever owned. Even at high altitude the 2 lane passing capabilities with the 7 speed was insane.
Our 2010 GL450 has been such a great car. 165k miles and only a starter replacement... thing still looks almost new and handles off road so very well. Even tows our 6500 pound trailer with ease. Problems with the mercedes are usually due to poor maintenance by second / third owners. Although the first two years had a few issues so i'd buy a 2009 or newer GL
LMAO I don’t know how many times I’ve had a customer say “Oh it’s such an old vehicle why is the labor so much” or It’s an old (insert high end car) why are the parts so expensive? Just because it’s old didn’t suddenly reduce the labor time and just because that once $100K+ car has depreciated to the price of a new corolla doesn’t always make the parts cheaper either and when you use the cheaper aftermarket they sometimes cause more issues.
Almost $28K in maintenance and service really isn’t bad for a 17yr old MB that was dealer serviced. You’re right the owner definitely loved her vehicle usually most seek an independent shop after the warranty period is up. The problem is when you pay that dealer service pricing and receive less than stellar dealer service or you can’t find a competent independent technician like Toby to service the vehicle
2007 GL450. Now 164k.Everyting works, Loads of room in the 3 rows of seats. Replaced front air shocks, repainted left rear fender (clearcoat was coming off) and the occasional light bulb. Looks great, pleasure to drive. I use liqui-moly in the engine coolant and oil (just me). Highly recommend Michelin tires.
It's so funny to me that nearly every model I find in Germany has the off-road package.
It was standard if I recall in some euro markets
The good thing about that is it means that off-road specific parts are not going to be unobtainable....
We have a 2012 GL 550. Bought it with 80k mile and it now has 213k. Replaced the starter and alternator and a few minor things so I'd consider the drivetrain to be excellent. The Achilles heel is the airbag suspension and rapid tire wear. Those two things really bring the car down. Literally.
As a senior Mercedes tech (dealer), it is always fascinating to watch how an independent tech assesses these vehicles. Toby did well and it is obvious that he has experience with them. He has some misses on what certain components actually do but at the end of the day it is irrelevant. My advice to current and future owners is to shop the dealer against independents in their area. I’m in Houston and pretty much all of the decent/good indies around us are more expensive than us while often using inferior parts. You can have bad apples in both camps so do some research and trust your gut.
You get what you pay for. So, I would not judge them as a stealership.
Toby!! My dude is back sharing his knowledge. Its good to see him.
That's a really comprehensive assessment! And having Toby's expertise on hand was excellent.
I subbed to the Patreon bc this series seems exciting. Great videos guys!
Thanks for the support!! Great having you on
Same lol
@@mcnuggetapplethank you!!
Great guy! He knows his stuff. Very refreshing to see.
I’ve owned 2 GLs and a GLS. They have been good vehicles for us. But that is merely anecdotal. You have to keep up with maintenance.
Thank you Tommy & Tobby, I worked at an Audi/Landcruiser dealership, and many used Benz SUVs traded in, many mechanically JUNK (needing thousands $$) and only 5/50k on them. I fell in love with the '15 GLK 350 - but that would be a wallet drainer
The sole purpose of the auxiliary battery on a X164 is to be able to engage park if the battery loses power, since the transmission is shifted with its own servo motor.
Brand new Arnott airbag + strut costs about $500 on these not $2500. The easiest strut job if you’re mechanically inclined.
I bought my parts from Arnott and my indy puts them in for shop labor. It saved me thousands. If they go bad the parts are covered but I would have to pay the labor again. It's still worth it. My GL550 has ADS. I replaced all for corners, the ADS shocks, the compressor, and the block valve for $4000. The transmission on these cars should be serviced every 40,000 to 50,000 miles.
Unfortunately the Arnott fronts don't last long. I replaced mine many times under warranty fortunately. The rear bags hold up much better.
I love it when Toby makes and appearance.
The battery under the seat is very big and heavy. Costco sells a replacement for a good price. They last 10 years.
You don’t need to take off the seat, but if you don’t then you need a lot of muscle strength.
No idea if the same thing was/is done by MB in the US, but where i am from, from i think 2002 onwards, they offered a 30 year mobility warranty. (for every MB) That meant each time you let the car be serviced/oil changed at the MB dealership you get a mobility warranty extended for another year (up to 30 years).
That mobility warranty means you can call the number when you are stranded, and they will send a tow truck or a mechanic, and they will make sure you get to your destination.
I have called them. At a saturday at around 10 pm when i had a flat tire. Before that i looked through the folder because i didn't think they would cover that. But nothing in the folder said otherwise so i tried it.
->They looked up the last service of the car, and organized a tow truck and because they weren't able to get me a rental car or train ticket, they organized and paid a night in the nearest hotel and would have paid for the train ticket the next day (which i didn't need)
For that kind of road side assitance you always have to pay, either by joining some road side assistance club or organization or by the little higher parts prices at the dealership.
Needed the mileage number in that last segment to get full value out of your information
I own a later model X164 than the one in the video (post facelift), GL450 (2011 MY) since new and it has been flawless. It now has about 110K miles and the very first thing that failed was the radiator fan motor just last month. That's right, after 13 years of ownership I only have had one part failing!!! I had the air suspension replaced at all four corners between 70K-80K but I consider air struts consumables just like tires and brakes. My experience with Mercedes cars has been excellent and have owned 4 so far in my lifetime. I believe that cars post facelift have better reliability record and usually I buy models that are "mature" so that the manufacturer has enough time to fix issues. I also maintain all my cars myself following the MB maintenance schedule religiously using OEM or better parts. Never cheap subsitutes.
Toby is great! His knowledge is incredible. Why would anyone spend $6000, and then sell the vehicle a few months later for $8000? That makes zero sense.
Great series! Really informative. I wish Toby had a shop in California. :-)
Toby should be cloned and have the clones distributed around the states.
She got a great deal on dealership oil changes. My dealer wanted over $500 for an oil change and tire rotation. I assume my GL550 takes more oil than a 450 but still.
Toby is awesome! Thanks for another great video TFL.
Damn… this guy is a gem. It’s hard to find a good, knowledgeable, Mercedes Ben’s tech.
Toby is awesome! So informative.
If I'm honest I was expecting more than $1700/year for servicing, especially for dedicated dealership servicing, that's not too bad actually
Brakes all around in the dealer are probably over $2,000 now.
The tailgate motor accounts for $350 of that $1700 average by itself.
Love this series. Well done Tommy! Toby is looking really comfortable on camera now. Great job! And regarding the expense: I'd rather have this with the refined interior and ride than a terrible driving experience like a Toyota.
Sup Toby, like David you're becoming a main character. 🍻
I took a GL450 from 85k miles to 140k and no issues at all except for the air suspension compressor which is very easy to replace. How the previous owner of your GL spent $27,000 is WILD I have spent maybe $600 total for 65,000 miles. It has a few oil leaks but as long as it is small and you check fluids its not a big deal. Mine has only minor leaks hardly even changes the level after like 5000 miles. I do my own oil changes, everyone charges too much when it is very cheap, oil filter on amazon is like $15 to $20. Oil is simple Mobile1 European formula, very straight forward.
i just picked up a gl450 2011 not a rattle from it drives like brand new all new air shocks brakes and all recalls serviced on it fluid change and a Mercedes inspection all done by Mercedes for $6,500 thing looks brand new inside and out loving it so far mine has the off road package on it as well.
Had a GL350 diesel. It was a 2 year lease. Mercedes had to buy it back as they couldn’t get it to run right. The check engine light would not turn off. They even sent an engineer from Germany to look at it. It was a 2012. Junk! Discontinued in 2015. Had 450’s and 550’s too. The gear selector broke right off the column. No way to put it in park or reverse. Had to call the dealer then use a pen to put it in park….lol. Had a few with the off road package, we had to order them that way. Used it in snow but not actually off road. I was a driver so I drove lots of them and ordered new ones upon lease expiration. The gas ones were pretty good in general but expensive as they aged, we leased but the MB service manager was my friend and he told me they turn into money pits.
Yes, it costs a lot of money to keep a Mercedes Benz on the road. I have an Edition 507 Sedan, and one year, I spent $4,300+ to have it serviced. That did include some wear items like tires though.
Toyota Sequoia or Landcruiser of that age or twice as old is in 100 times better condition! Even if it was abused!
I almost bought one of these, but the ones with the off-road package are almost impossible to find. They are also huge. Got a Jaguar F-Pace instead that blew a turbo at 67k (!) which is a bummer as it's a great car. Got a 2012 Grand Cherokee that's got some issues, but nothing disastrous.
Mid 2008 and later are the years to get for 550 engine because of weak timing chain sprocket which wears out prematurely.
That's is the cleanest shop I have I ever seem! Great job T, on the house keeping.
Toby is brilliant
Great mechanic
He clearly knows these vehicles extremely well.
Bottom line, service your car properly and regularly
Do the required maintenance etc
Don’t thrash the vehicle
And it shouldn’t have major unexpected problems or issues
Real pity that Benz and others put the battery in a place that makes it very difficult to get to
Huge labour cost just to change a battery
And a battery is an item that will need replacement every few years !
I’d definitely spend the $$$ to service the transmission
I have a 2011 GL450, thank God that it's been good to me.
I don't think that $1700 per year on average is bad for a 17 year old luxury SUV tbh if you keep in mind that this was at the dealer. Oil changes, air filters and other regular service stuff can be done for a lot less than this without really sacrificing on quality. Also, most people would probably just operate the hatch manually after the motor failed, saving another $6000. Really does seem like these are not that bad.
Since you mentioned ‘luxury’, when I think of $1700/year, I like to also think I’m getting a smoother ride and other stuff. It’s not just the repairs.
Great episode! They’re a little finicky but the bad reputation is more hyperbole from people that have never driven or owned one.
You can do most of this yourself: example aux battery. just 4 bolts to flip the seat. takes 30 min in your driveway.
As long as Toby is around it's not the ENS OF THE WORLD to fix these cars!! Big up man!! I am buying 2014 ML350 CDI in India.
Yep my ml350 had that transfer case clunk which we ended up selling on to a Mercedes flipper who said he knew exactly what the issue was . It’s super annoying when your indies can’t diagnose this issue.
This sounds like a DIY'er nightmare! Im going to go out in the garage after this video and give my XJ a hug!
I’ve found TH-cam videos very easy to follow to fix anything on my 380,000 gl450. Don’t be fooled by people who think they can’t diy repair and service this car. You can.
Fantastic video. Tommy and Toby are both cool guys , really informative content. Thank you guys.
Those airbag struts are NOT 3 grand. I've literally replaced my own and the full bag and strut assembly was 1/10th that price (About $280 per side, half that for rears). I don't know where he's getting those numbers or he must be quoting the full price for both shocks from a stealership, labor, and the dealer's insane shop markup. They _are_ kind of a pain to do yourself (any suspension job is with ANY car), but quite doable with a little patience and no exotic specialty tools. Then if you do just the bags themselves they're under $100 each, but the bags can be difficult to separate from the struts and if you're doing all that labor you may as well just replace the struts while they're out.
I've owned 3 Mercedes over the last decade and a half and I've always done my own maintenance and repairs on my cars. The first rule to owning a Mercedes Benz is if you're out of warranty you never, _EVER_ buy parts from the dealership. They think they're selling parts for the space shuttle but for much of the world, especially Europe, MB is just another brand selling all kinds of cars from affordable vans and compacts to uber luxury, and their global part prices reflect that. It's just the US dealerships that treat the US consumer like they're stupid because honestly, most Mercedes owners ARE stupid and pay WAY too much for not really _that_ nice of a car. Buy used, fix it yourself and Mercedes can literally be cheaper to maintain than a Toyota.
We had the off-road package on our GL merc .. was told it was a very rare option when we sold it.
My x164 GL450 2008 has 380,000 miles on it so far. Awesome car. I’ve had it since 25,000 miles and will happily look for a low mileage X164 when this one dies. Trouble is that it still drives smoothly, with its original engine and transmission and it may have another 100,000+ more miles left in it. Parts are much cheaper these days too. Just don’t trust MB stealer ships and keep costs down by repairing yourself using TH-cam.
Toby is great. Appreciate videos on older vehicles
Wow! Toby sure knows these cars.
Once upon a time MBs were special. They were complex but well engineered cars meant to be maintained. And when needed, high quality parts were readily available and not too terribly expensive. That all reversed maybe 15 years ago (like this GL with two batteries under a SEAT) and most all replacements parts turning to crap.
Which explains why our last several cars have been Mazdas, with an odd Chevy Bolt in the current fleet. MBs aren’t special anymore.
Yikes. I wonder what the maint and repairs on my '14 e550 twin turbo m278 V8 is gonna cost as it ages?
It sounds like buying a LR Disco is a wiser choice!😊
Toby's knowledge is impressive.
Im looking forward for more videos of that Mercedes! So far, excellent purchase 👍
Better hope that code is a sensor and not a timing chain/gear issue which did afflict the early M273s and 272 V6s.
2006-2008 is the wheelhouse for those issues too. By mid-2008 MB had switched to a gear made from a different grade of metal.
@@thethomasj1795 Supposedly it was improperly hardened from a supplier, like heat treatment.
Holy crap! Toby is AMAZING!!! I'm going to bring in my SLK!
Canbus. The little battery keeps the freaking canbus system up.
What tires and size did you put on? Do they rub at full lock or in lowered sport mode
This is why we go to Toby. And he’s a fan favorite way to tommy. Well done guys. Toby your tremendous bud I can’t wait for the day Toby looks at a vehicle and says. Unsubscribe from this and get your money back immediately. Hopefully this year
You know, I'll just restrict my Benz love to W124 and W126 era and nothing newer. Best looking, best built, better reliability and easier to work on.
I like that kid's viewpoint on his job.
I do wonder if he's deaf/partially-deaf?
Good data. Thank you. Lessons ... Lease not buy and after the warranty expires, avoid German cars.
It would be good to see because of the age and mileage . The long fuel trim and compression . To evaluate the health of engine.
Any recomendation for a good mechanic on these cars in Columbus, Ohio??
That mechanic is probably the place every Mercedes owner should take their car, even from new and get a much better quality and value service than they would at the MB dealership. The warranty would probably be unaffected if they follow the MB service schedule and stamp the book.
I have 10 years old ML 350 and 110K miles. The only thing I replaced is an ABS sensor.$200 bucks.
Great video, very informative.
It tells me not to buy a Mercedes, if I spent $1700.00 a year on maintenance I'd sell that car.
Any reputable shops I could take our gl450 for suspension repair/maintenance in DC/virginia?