Also that starter fits a 2.3 liter ford like in a ranger or pinto for whatever reason they used the 3 bolt pattern. I used a later model starter off of 90’s ranger with the Solenoid made on and used the fender mount solenoid as a relay. I don’t know if the bendix is interchangeable on those with this unit but it’s a major upgrade being gear reduction (smaller) and a beefy solenoid it spins faster and lasts longer.
Still had clearance probs on my '75 f250. Not with the headers per se, but when replacing the replacement starter. Would have to drop the header everytime. Finally went to a high torque small form facter starter. Now I don't drop the header to change the starter.
If I'm doing header's honestly I'm probably going to go with a Mini starter starter after looking at what we did here.. I'm trying to get a set of the Kugle Komponents 406 headers for the Galaxie to put on there and see how that fits.
The ambiguous "bendix" term is for a return spring generally used on older GM Delco. That part with the gear, the overrunning clutch and the coil spring is the "starter drive" on ford because it's drive gear is the part you're going to be most attentive to, to repair it. It was available by itself with hardware for decades because it's what you needed to solve most of the starter issues. Terminology is the thing that smoothes out the parts issues you have at a Ford parts counter. Knowing the number that fixes something saves half a day quite often. We saved our boxtops and wrote notes on them for future time savers.
1958-1964 FE flywheels are the 153 tooth flywheels. 1965 switched to 184 tooth flywheels. Starter changed to that other style in 1965 as well. 428 flywheels have differences I believe due to balancing.
after dealing with header clearance and hot start issues on a 390FE and a 430MEL, i take it one step further and use the mini-starters that are clockable, and they also have a built-in relay. It costs more, but the 1st, 2nd and 3rd time you have trouble you regret not spending the money up front.
Not saying mini starters are an issue I like mini starters, we actually have one on the 1969 Fairlane wagon. However this is a solution for guys that want to appear more stock.
I remember when I pulled the starter out of my dads 64 galaxie when we started working on it years ago. I got the thing half way out to the radiator and it just kept coming, weird starter. I converted both of mine to 184 tooth flex plates and use a 65 and newer starter. Even when those long bendix starters work right I feel like they always kick out earlier than they should especially if you have a hard hot restart condition.
I just replaced the starter on my 360FE on my F100. My opinion is that the job is easier if you start and finish with the top bolt. It's in a tricky position, and it's much easier to get the bolt in and out if the weight of the starter isn't hanging off of it.
The starter from a 200/6 fits a 390/360 and vice versa.Also,they use the same lifters.A ridged nosecone originally denoted a high torque starter,who knows what it is after being re-manufactured.A 2 bolt nosecone will also bolt up with no problems.5 chinese starters in 9 months will eat a flexplate.A fancy clockable starter will only rotate maybe 30* due to block and wont fit with cheap headers. Because knowledge is power(insert rainbow here.).
@@AutoRestoMod The question is whether the new gear you used works correctly, and whether you now have a proper cranking sound. A complete teardown inspecting motor components would further an understanding of how it all works. We don't need to see you bolt it in, of course; just looking to see it fixed for sure.
Upgrade? A smaller/lighter modern PMGR starter would be a upgrade. Unfortunately FE was long out of production by time they appeared in '92. Of course are available aftermarket, but are $$$. I have small block PMGR starters on a couple of my 302. BTW the replacement 3131 FE starter also fits 200 6cyl.
For this system it is actually an upgrade. Simply because of the fact that you can get the starter pretty much anywhere. But I agree that PMGR starters are pretty good.
@@AutoRestoMod Point taken, I recently tossed one that had been laying in my mom's garage for over 50 years(I think it was Y block). Speaking of mom & starters, in '93 she bought a new Grand Marquis. Five or six years later she called me saying the remote would not unlock doors. I figure yeah probably needs battery(and it did). Found the main battery was so weak the actuator solenoid would not unlock door, yet the PMGR starter would still crank engine. Needless to say, I was sold.
That was quite the education Jeff.. I know that took some time, to show the required details with “drive” gear swap. Though, through the miracle of editing, it would have been nice, to at least hear it crank a bit ? I’ll get over it 😠… God bless….
I struggle with doing too much in one video. I used to do a lot of that and guys got mad because I was not able to cover things sufficiently. Now guys get mad when I don't do everything in 1 video. I don't know which way to go, so I just decided one day to break it down into smaller sections so that people could get what they needed. Yes you have to watch more videos, but I can do more detail work when we do videos like this.
I don't get it. When you had both starters lying beside each other, the newer design appeared to be larger in diameter and both were the same length. How is that good for header clearance especially with the big hump on the side of the newer one?
I honestly wonder that too. Lol I was told by some folks that the old starter was bigger and more bulky than the new starter. I do know it is heavier than the newer starter. But the info on size seems "off".
according to another comment my 63 390 galaxie has a 153 tooth flywheel. i have not found a mini starter compatible with that. I would really like to run a mini due to the cast iron header i have. Can th ee flywheel be changed to accommodate the newer style starter. I have a four speed, im not sure if the starter ring is replaceable or would have to get a flywheel. any help would be appreciated.
As far as I know the 390 is an internally balanced engine so you should be able to move to a different flywheel for a 390 and make that work. However, you probably will run into bellhousing problems on that engine using the 164 tooth flywheel.
I could have bought the original style starter but decided to show this method because it is an option for guys that want to keep an original style starter.
Also that starter fits a 2.3 liter ford like in a ranger or pinto for whatever reason they used the 3 bolt pattern. I used a later model starter off of 90’s ranger with the Solenoid made on and used the fender mount solenoid as a relay. I don’t know if the bendix is interchangeable on those with this unit but it’s a major upgrade being gear reduction (smaller) and a beefy solenoid it spins faster and lasts longer.
Thanks fir that tidbit!
I'm glad John is still around, bought cleveland headers for my 66 fastback more than 35 years ago.
I've known John since the late 90s. Listed after his Starliner as long. Lol
@@AutoRestoMod Lusted, you mean. Understandable.
Still had clearance probs on my '75 f250. Not with the headers per se, but when replacing the replacement starter. Would have to drop the header everytime. Finally went to a high torque small form facter starter. Now I don't drop the header to change the starter.
If I'm doing header's honestly I'm probably going to go with a Mini starter starter after looking at what we did here.. I'm trying to get a set of the Kugle Komponents 406 headers for the Galaxie to put on there and see how that fits.
The ambiguous "bendix" term is for a return spring generally used on older GM Delco.
That part with the gear, the overrunning clutch and the coil spring is the "starter drive" on ford because it's drive gear is the part you're going to be most attentive to, to repair it.
It was available by itself with hardware for decades because it's what you needed to solve most of the starter issues.
Terminology is the thing that smoothes out the parts issues you have at a Ford parts counter. Knowing the number that fixes something saves half a day quite often. We saved our boxtops and wrote notes on them for future time savers.
Nice thanks for the terminology upgrade.
first thanks for all your information videos before 65 fe was 153 tooth
1958-1964 FE flywheels are the 153 tooth flywheels. 1965 switched to 184 tooth flywheels. Starter changed to that other style in 1965 as well. 428 flywheels have differences I believe due to balancing.
Yup. I blame my brain
Another great educational video....
after dealing with header clearance and hot start issues on a 390FE and a 430MEL, i take it one step further and use the mini-starters that are clockable, and they also have a built-in relay. It costs more, but the 1st, 2nd and 3rd time you have trouble you regret not spending the money up front.
Not saying mini starters are an issue I like mini starters, we actually have one on the 1969 Fairlane wagon. However this is a solution for guys that want to appear more stock.
I have a 390FE now its a 428 with Hooker Headers. Hot start issues. Which starter do you suggest?
I remember when I pulled the starter out of my dads 64 galaxie when we started working on it years ago. I got the thing half way out to the radiator and it just kept coming, weird starter. I converted both of mine to 184 tooth flex plates and use a 65 and newer starter. Even when those long bendix starters work right I feel like they always kick out earlier than they should especially if you have a hard hot restart condition.
Agreed.
I just replaced the starter on my 360FE on my F100. My opinion is that the job is easier if you start and finish with the top bolt. It's in a tricky position, and it's much easier to get the bolt in and out if the weight of the starter isn't hanging off of it.
The later FEs ran a 184 tooth flywheel. 164 tooth was 351C or 69-70 Boss 302.
I was having a senior moment. Lol
Was thinking you would show the difference on how to wire the mini starter vs old ?
The starter from a 200/6 fits a 390/360 and vice versa.Also,they use the same lifters.A ridged nosecone originally denoted a high torque starter,who knows what it is after being re-manufactured.A 2 bolt nosecone will also bolt up with no problems.5 chinese starters in 9 months will eat a flexplate.A fancy clockable starter will only rotate maybe 30* due to block and wont fit with cheap headers. Because knowledge is power(insert rainbow here.).
DUE due due DEW! LOL Nice info!
Another unfinished video. Glad to know Johnny the V is still kickin'. I'll have to give him a buzz.
I didn't figure anybody would want to see me bolt it back into the car.
@@AutoRestoMod The question is whether the new gear you used works correctly, and whether you now have a proper cranking sound. A complete teardown inspecting motor components would further an understanding of how it all works. We don't need to see you bolt it in, of course; just looking to see it fixed for sure.
what? you guys are in Aiken? dang I need to drop in and check you guys out!
We're now in North Augusta email me for the address jford@autorestomod.com
Great video. Would this upgrade work with the 1964 Thunderbird
Yes it should
Is total performance still around? That url doesn’t seem to be good.
Why didn't you do the PMGR starter upgrade?
Wanted to show an alternative that can be easily replace.
i have not been able to find a mini starter for the early fe
Will it fit my 1967 ford galaxie with 428 cobra jet engine
Pretty sure that by 1967 Ford was not doing that big hefty starter.
Tryed to order the bendix but the website isnt coming up. Can u post a link?
Upgrade? A smaller/lighter modern PMGR starter would be a upgrade. Unfortunately FE was long out of production by time they appeared in '92. Of course are available aftermarket, but are $$$. I have small block PMGR starters on a couple of my 302.
BTW the replacement 3131 FE starter also fits 200 6cyl.
For this system it is actually an upgrade. Simply because of the fact that you can get the starter pretty much anywhere. But I agree that PMGR starters are pretty good.
@@AutoRestoMod Point taken, I recently tossed one that had been laying in my mom's garage for over 50 years(I think it was Y block). Speaking of mom & starters, in '93 she bought a new Grand Marquis. Five or six years later she called me saying the remote would not unlock doors. I figure yeah probably needs battery(and it did). Found the main battery was so weak the actuator solenoid would not unlock door, yet the PMGR starter would still crank engine. Needless to say, I was sold.
Lol that car looks mint underneath
Like one you'd see in a restaurant parking lot after a tree day rain.
That was quite the education Jeff.. I know that took some time, to show the required details with “drive” gear swap. Though, through the miracle of editing, it would have been nice, to at least hear it crank a bit ? I’ll get over it 😠… God bless….
All in good time Jojo
Can you get just the starter bendex
Yes.
You should grease the end of the shaft where it goes in the nose, it will last longer new or not.
It was already greased
Well that was a let down, not install and test fire.😮
I struggle with doing too much in one video. I used to do a lot of that and guys got mad because I was not able to cover things sufficiently. Now guys get mad when I don't do everything in 1 video. I don't know which way to go, so I just decided one day to break it down into smaller sections so that people could get what they needed. Yes you have to watch more videos, but I can do more detail work when we do videos like this.
I don't get it. When you had both starters lying beside each other, the newer design appeared to be larger in diameter and both were the same length. How is that good for header clearance especially with the big hump on the side of the newer one?
I honestly wonder that too. Lol I was told by some folks that the old starter was bigger and more bulky than the new starter. I do know it is heavier than the newer starter. But the info on size seems "off".
Sorry if I missed it. What is the part number or what vehicle is the starter you ended up using for? Before modifying it.
The starter is a stock 390 starter for is for a 1968 and later car.
64 and older big block ford used 153 teeth flywheel. 65 and after 184 teeth
Your absolutely right! I just couldn't remember at the time lol
according to another comment my 63 390 galaxie has a 153 tooth flywheel. i have not found a mini starter compatible with that. I would really like to run a mini due to the cast iron header i have. Can th ee flywheel be changed to accommodate the newer style starter. I have a four speed, im not sure if the starter ring is replaceable or would have to get a flywheel. any help would be appreciated.
As far as I know the 390 is an internally balanced engine so you should be able to move to a different flywheel for a 390 and make that work. However, you probably will run into bellhousing problems on that engine using the 164 tooth flywheel.
I know small block Ford engines had 157 or 164 teeth. Not sure about the FE's though.
The bolt pattern and flange shape does not look the same on the starters.
But it is!
Glad you didn't drop it on your face 😂
I have before. That's why my face looks like this.
@@AutoRestoMod Oh well, your hair is always disgustingly perfect, so ya got that.
That bendex is sprung. I used to know how to fix them. Two heavy wire paper clips...and a hell of a lot of swearing.
I could have bought the original style starter but decided to show this method because it is an option for guys that want to keep an original style starter.