It's simple. AoS is an ongoing experiment where the creatives are given more of a free rein because even if they screw up, it's not going to hurt GW too much in the long run. 40k, on the other hand, is their cash cow that drives the corporate growth, so they treat it with kid gloves.
Being that AoS is a newer IP, the developers aren't completely bound to aesthetics like 40 years of 40k is and can be a little more care free with designs.
I still don't understand why the new 40k stuff looks bad, when older models like the sanguinary guard etc look better. Clearly they can make them look good, but don't. I honestly think they just dropped the ball.
We go over that a bit on our WAYPN channel but, basically it is because they believe they are appealing to different demographics being nice, or being mean they believe 40k is a cash cow and they are going to milk it - Cal
I have been in the warhammer scene for 7 years. I have religiously bought 40k and nothing else during this time. However I feel a changing inside me and I feel like buying aos now because the quality of minatures is so drastic. Can anyone relate?
@@XorLore I have tried on multiple occasions just to get at least a 1000 point army (keep in mind I am a teenager with teenager money(not a lot)) but I keep changing armies. I’ve been so focused on just getting enough models to play a game that I haven’t been finding it fun, which it should be it’s my hobby. Only now do I feel I don’t enjoy the gaming side of warhammer, nor the lore, so going for the better models is natural. It just so happens that aos minatures are subjectively better. If there is a stand alone model for aos(you should do a video about top 10 best budget gw models) that you think has been a good paint, I’m open to suggestions. -TheShyOnion
My suggestion would really to be to check out our other channel WAYPN that is going to have so many resources for you! There is a really old and somewhat poorly produced video from when we were starting our called hobby burnout, because it sounds like maybe you're not there but your certainly on that road. I hope our other channel helps you on your hobby journey - Cal
See I just always assumed it's a combination of Old models, with Eldar finally updating a 20 year old model while all of the age of sigmar is far more new at 9 years old and the fact there is naturally going to be more heraldry involved in their design. While the Adeptus Astartes are usually decked out with a bit of flash, most of the armies are just military units with a standardized uniform vs a medieval fantasy where there is a semi uniform look but they will still have more uniqueness when it comes to individual models.
Sometimes i feel 40k team should have even less creative freedom, especially when updating old models like the Sanguinary Guard, because oh boy, should've just made their legs longer by 1-2mm instead of whatever they actually did.
Chapter house studios died. So that we could haven even silier names in GWs ip. But at least it gave us cool models in AoS. I don't play but do use character models for dnd characters, the sculpts are oretty cool.
Very good video! Interesting topic, nicely presented. I don't know if the dialog was scripted or cut together, but this is an enjoyable and fresh style. Charming accents, too. I hope your channel does well!
Thank you very much so I will explain our style, what we do is we go outside and have a walk and talk about the topic and talk about the important points we want to hit, and just talk normally. Then we come back and record what we talked about trying to deliberately remove any clunky gaps so we don't umm and ahhh. We try very hard to respect peoples time - Cal
Definitely! And I think with the w they are designed kind of hard not to get drawn in, I personally wanted to paint moratho at one point, might be a bit ambitious current level though 😅~Sunny
That's your opinion, and your entitled to it, but most people think they look better, but I do think saying they are over designed is totally fair but, I think that's most GW minis these days - Cal
@@XorLore "most people" think AoS models look better then 40 k ones? Maybe in a subreddit or 2 but I don't think you can claim that as fact for everyone.
The more subtle issue in the Chapterhouse suit was that GW played fast and loose with IP assignment, and it wasn't even clear they owned 40k in its totality. That their IP wasn't novel enough to warrant protection also hit them pretty hard, as you explain.
I'm glad someone is talking about this. While I think individual ranges from 40k match AOS (I'm thinking the new kreig line and a lot of the tyranid stuff) the new wolf rider goblins solo pretty much everything else.
I think its just the fact that AoS is finally starting to lose the stink associated with End Times and becoming mainstream popular in its own right. GW, recognizing this, is doing what it can to capitalize on this and keep the ball rolling with creative miniatures.
To be honest the new Death krieg & Eldars looks absolutly fabulous! And for AoS, sure the minis are stunning, but... an absolute nightmare to paint unless you're a pro painter.
I think unfortunately that all models now days an absolute nightmare to paint unless you are a pro, and I am a commission painter and I have to say, I don't like it some of the time either - Cal
At least in my area, AOS is very competitive and 40k is more beer and pretzels. AOS just has better game balance and rules. Ive been playing 40k since the 90s and am very disapointed in the rules and power creep. I havent played 40k since the new edition. A few games and i was out...
Yeah, I hear its very regional as to how people take each of the games, I think I said this in another comment who has the opposite situation of you - Cal
As a AoS fan through and through, I completely agree with your points. I love the narrative, models and lore. I played 40K back in 9th and it was a mistake. The player base is so competitive and lacks any interest in doing narrative/match play games. Plus the rules for 40K suck, you are so limited in what you can build and that too me makes a hobby extremely boring. AoS sure the rules are okay but I’m not buying models for the rules. I have every single army because I like the lore and narrative games.
I think player bases really change depending on location. I have had similar experiences to you but, I have heard very good things from certain areas - Cal
There are 40k players which are less competitive. Actually there are plenty of them. But they are usually not at tournaments and overall more casual players.
If anyone ever wonders if AOS has better models than 40k, I ask them to find anything that has more character and expression/movement in their models than the gloomspite gitz. I mean, really. Name one 40k faction that is anywhere near on the level of fun of them. Orks would be the only faction IMO that comes close. And I still feel the gitz step ahead a little more. Night goblins, huge trolls, amazing character models, amazing squigs, then new wolf riders and doom diver catapult, the troggoth king…all tied together by cute little bio-luminous mushrooms. And that’s just one faction. Get into some of the new flesh eater courts and Seraphon models and you start seeing some amazing sculpts as well. Sylvaneth are excellent, with idoneth deepkin having some amazing stand alone models which are just perfect. Even the factions in AOS who have a more traditional cohesive standard model line still competes with 40k lines. fyre slayers, while one note, still manage to stand out with a unique flair. Kharadron overlords as well. Helll, even iron jawz manage to have some great ones. All in all, I’d say that AOS is superior. Maybe not every faction…beastmen, ogres and giants certainly need a bit more love/updates. And many may just not be someone’s cup of tea. But it’s pretty amazing seeing the creativity and liveliness in the AOS sculpts, compared to the stereotypical 40K poses/models. I’m looking at you, space marine lieutenant variants.
@ I would say in passionate about AOS models….the lore is a bit of a…mess. I’ll concede that, which is why I think 40k does so well!! The lore is established and goes back decades. The player base really knows and loves their chosen factions. Hell, even I love 40k lore, even though I’d prob never collect and play.
"more character and expression/movement" is great for WoW of LoL characters of which Gloomspite gitz look like they are from but I don't like it for 40k tbh and I'm glad it's not a thing outside of the goofy new Ork Beast Boyz
I visit a few stores where they play Age of Sigmar, and I haven't encountered the types of people you described that sound like morons.. I would say some of the players do choose armies based on how cool they look, but I've noticed that in Warhammer 40,000 as well. I play mainly Age of sigmar due to it being back and forth on the battle. (models looking better too)
I find AoS has a tendency towards extremes. While it has some of the best looking models GW has produced, it also has some of rhe worst and least inspired. Personally, I chalk this up to a more modern phenomenon I like to call the "corporate toy box". In the way a children's toy box might house Lego blocks, GI Joe action figurs, hot wheels, odds and ends like a Rubik's cube or a yo-yo, so too does a corporate toy box house disparate ideas and concepts. AoS was, fundamentally, designed around the idea of destroying or breaking up the framework of what came before it and, to a certain degree, remaining as free floating as it can. This has granted the designers assigned to work on it a massive amount of freedom, but that freedom has come at the cost of direction and "investable" material. Personally, i find it pretty telling that the best AoS models tend to be either 40k stuff they drapped a Fantasy skin over or updated/remixed Fantasy models (the new skaven or lizardmen ranges are good exampes of this). To put it simply, AoS deigners are basically just throwing stuff at the wall becusse AoS still hasn't really solidified its own identity (and I dont think it really can).
I think saying that AoS tend towards extreme is fair. And that it is corporate, but I disagree with the idea it can't have an identity of its own. 40k was once just cyber punk Warhammer fantasy so I think if it can become what it is now. AoS can find it's identity - Cal
@@XorLore It's not so much that it "can't", it's more so that it struggles to do so on account of the nature of its creation. I think it's important to keep in mind that AoS has been around for about a decade now (longer if you take development time before release into account). It also has the added benefit of (nominally) being a direct sequel to Fantasy. Despite all this, I don't think it has managed to really formulate its own identity, like how both Fantasy and 40k did within a similar time frame. To avoid writing an essay on the subject, I'll chalk my doubts up to to main things. The first is AoS's conflicting attitudes towards being a sequel. It's a sequel that hates the thing that preceded it, yet relies heavy on it for many of its core elements. The second is AoS's cynical conception. This is partly the corporate toy box thing I talked about before, and partly the fact that AoS isn't really any one person's (or group's) passion project - like how Fantasy and 40k were.
This. This is the video every single warhammer hobbyist and player should see. A lot of this is stuff is kinda vaguely known by a lot of disparate people. But this is the only vid I've seen that puts it all together in a cohesive way. Top work
New 40k models look very good. Have you seen the new Eldar and Death Korps models from the recent release show? Nothing more to say. And there are many other examples for good recent models in the 40k range. The new Dark Angels, everyting Killteam related etc. So the question itself is made up in my opinion. 40k and AoS are on the same level but have different backgrounds. 40k is grimdark, dirty and ugly when it comes to the background and AoS is more tolkienesque, high Fantasy, less grimdark. There is maybe more creative freedom with AoS because of this and that is the reason some people think that AoS has 'better' looking models. And they are maybe right: yeah the models look 'better' because the background is nicer and therefore GW has more freedom with the miniature range. Also it is unfair to claim that 40ks miniatures are getting worse. Sure the blood angels and the new coteaz models were a little bit disappointing. But as I mentioned, there are some many other recent models to compensate these 'fails'.
No, the AoS models are ass, they mostly look like WoW rejects now, it's clear they are trying to create Marvel-like hero characters especially with "Order" characters but they end up looking overdesigned and like action figure toys. 40K is also slowly going down this path but not as fast, a lot of new charter models are in a corny action pose with things like smoke effects, over-designed bases and cloth that seems to bend in half.
You sound big mad, most people and not just some reddits agree on this. I think saying that they're overdesigned is fair but so is almost all of the Warhammer models - Cal
I think saying not great as game pieces is totally fair if you are looking at them that way. But as painting projects, great... Unless you have an army to paint up - Cal
Ok so…. I have some thoughts. I will preface this by saying I do like AoS (or at least I used to). AoS is what got me started not just into Warhammer but tabletop miniature wargaming as a whole. So you can’t say I just gave Fantasy nostalgia goggles on like I see so many people try to say when people say anything remotely negative about AoS. I’m also not trying to say AoS is bad and you’re bad for liking it. If anyone does say that then they can go punch sand. First in reference to the question/statement on thumbnail “will AoS be the next flagship game?”. No I don’t think it will be the next flagship game. In fact, I don’t think it’s doing nearly as well as GW originally hoped it would. Not to say it’s doing bad but from what i’ve heard it’s not doing as well as GW hoped it would. Now for the thing that really will get people upset. AoS models aren’t nearly as good as people say. Some of them are, but others not so much. I’d say they fall into one of two camps (mostly into one). The first is they look “cool” but really as a display piece and not so much as wargame piece. The second and the bigger issue that I think plagues a lot of the range is over design. It looks more like function follows form like a lot of these Asian made RPGs. There needs to be so much detail because it’s a painting project. I wouldn’t say AoS is for the beer and pretzels people, those people are mostly playing narrative 40k, other games, ME:SBG, or old editions of Fantasy (or now ToW). AoS is for the artists, kitbashers, diorama makers, and other creative sorts. As a result you get so many details and other stuff that caters to those people. As a result the models like I said look overdesigned, not all of them but many (I’m taking about AoS specific not the ones that came from Fantasy). This actually makes me think that the old Fantasy models, the ME:SBG, and some 40K models look better because they aren’t overdesigned. AoS does have its place though for the artistic among us. And yes there are plenty of AoS non fantasy models I like (the Stormcast dragons for starters lol).
@@XorLoreIn the thumbnail image it literally says “Will AoS be the next flagship game” when you say that phrase people will assume you’re going claiming it will pass up all other games GW makes and will be the main thing they focus on. I don’t really think that was covered in the video unless you stretch some arguments, and yes I did watch the whole video. As a result I’d say it at least was tangentially related to clickbait if not outright clickbait. I’m sorry if that was not your intent, that’s what I got from it.
Also I did give you the of watching the entire video, hearing you out, and engaging with the video. I say in mostly good faith other then yes calling the thumbnail clickbait which in my defense again the thumbnail mentioned something in the image that I didn’t really see talked about much. You could’ve worded it differently or just left it out. I could’ve just clicked dislike and left before even hearing you out. I have not even disliked the video.
When you say someone uses clickbait you are calling them a liar, you are saying they are inherently dishonest and cannot be trusted. That's not good faith, it's like casually saying someone is a thief, if I called you a thief, would you say that is good faith? I don't think so, calling someone a liar and then expecting engagement isn't a winning move - Cal
@@XorLoreI wouldn’t be so bold as to say you are inherently dishonest and cannot be trusted. there is a difference between a liar and a pathological liar. To say that means they have done that multiple times. If I was to say someone lied or used clickbait that is not the same as calling them someone who is “inherently dishonest and cannot be trusted”. If you had a history of doing that then I would say that, BUT I have not seen any history of that so I wouldn’t call you that. Thus I cannot be saying you are inherently dishonest and cannot be trusted. I apologize I upset you. Just like I think you should’ve used different words in that image or just put nothing there I should’ve phrased my issue with the image differently. I still say I’m acting in good faith despite that since my intent was not malicious. I would say that when you have in the thumbnail image “will AoS be the next flagship game” which imply a certain things and I don’t see you talk about it in the video I will call that out.
It's simple. AoS is an ongoing experiment where the creatives are given more of a free rein because even if they screw up, it's not going to hurt GW too much in the long run. 40k, on the other hand, is their cash cow that drives the corporate growth, so they treat it with kid gloves.
Fair view - Cal
Being that AoS is a newer IP, the developers aren't completely bound to aesthetics like 40 years of 40k is and can be a little more care free with designs.
Yeah one of the points we made 😁 - Cal
I guess we will have to wait for the 40k follow up Age of the Emperor to get models at the same level as AOS
Hmmm Warhammer: Age of Enlightenment, how's that sound? - Cal
@@XorLore AOE sound perfect (emperors chef kiss)
Warhammer 41K we going to skip another 1 thousand years.
First we'll need to get through 40k: End Times.
Warhammer 50K. It's Tyranids v. Tyranids....
I still don't understand why the new 40k stuff looks bad, when older models like the sanguinary guard etc look better. Clearly they can make them look good, but don't. I honestly think they just dropped the ball.
We go over that a bit on our WAYPN channel but, basically it is because they believe they are appealing to different demographics being nice, or being mean they believe 40k is a cash cow and they are going to milk it - Cal
Sigmar models are great but I am completely uninterested in the IP
I totally get that and I think you will agree with the next video - Cal
@@XorLore I'll check it out.
AOS is a more fun game, with better models and a more chill community.
But 40K has much better lore, which is a big part of the appeal.
Funnily enough our next video on AoS out this Thursday (Thursday for us) is on the lore and how their isn't enough of it - Cal
Amazing job guys
Thank you very much glad you enjoyed - Cal
I have been in the warhammer scene for 7 years. I have religiously bought 40k and nothing else during this time. However I feel a changing inside me and I feel like buying aos now because the quality of minatures is so drastic. Can anyone relate?
A change is like a holiday, even if you don't want to start a whole army, maybe try a single model of some kind see how you like it - Cal
@@XorLore I have tried on multiple occasions just to get at least a 1000 point army (keep in mind I am a teenager with teenager money(not a lot)) but I keep changing armies. I’ve been so focused on just getting enough models to play a game that I haven’t been finding it fun, which it should be it’s my hobby. Only now do I feel I don’t enjoy the gaming side of warhammer, nor the lore, so going for the better models is natural. It just so happens that aos minatures are subjectively better. If there is a stand alone model for aos(you should do a video about top 10 best budget gw models) that you think has been a good paint, I’m open to suggestions.
-TheShyOnion
My suggestion would really to be to check out our other channel WAYPN that is going to have so many resources for you!
There is a really old and somewhat poorly produced video from when we were starting our called hobby burnout, because it sounds like maybe you're not there but your certainly on that road. I hope our other channel helps you on your hobby journey - Cal
See I just always assumed it's a combination of Old models, with Eldar finally updating a 20 year old model while all of the age of sigmar is far more new at 9 years old and the fact there is naturally going to be more heraldry involved in their design. While the Adeptus Astartes are usually decked out with a bit of flash, most of the armies are just military units with a standardized uniform vs a medieval fantasy where there is a semi uniform look but they will still have more uniqueness when it comes to individual models.
I think that's a fair way of looking at things, I certainly think the subjects we brought up were pretty impactful - Cal
Sometimes i feel 40k team should have even less creative freedom, especially when updating old models like the Sanguinary Guard, because oh boy, should've just made their legs longer by 1-2mm instead of whatever they actually did.
We actually talk about that on an episode on WAYPN but I am not sure which one we did it on... - Cal
Chapter house studios died. So that we could haven even silier names in GWs ip.
But at least it gave us cool models in AoS. I don't play but do use character models for dnd characters, the sculpts are oretty cool.
Chapter House died for our sins and now GW has the silliest of names - Cal
Very good video! Interesting topic, nicely presented. I don't know if the dialog was scripted or cut together, but this is an enjoyable and fresh style. Charming accents, too. I hope your channel does well!
Thank you very much so I will explain our style, what we do is we go outside and have a walk and talk about the topic and talk about the important points we want to hit, and just talk normally. Then we come back and record what we talked about trying to deliberately remove any clunky gaps so we don't umm and ahhh. We try very hard to respect peoples time - Cal
The meta changes but drip is forever
Definitely! And I think with the w they are designed kind of hard not to get drawn in, I personally wanted to paint moratho at one point, might be a bit ambitious current level though 😅~Sunny
Mind blown! You make a strong argument.
Thanks you very - Cal and Sunny
I don't think they look better, I think AoS models are over designed.
That's your opinion, and your entitled to it, but most people think they look better, but I do think saying they are over designed is totally fair but, I think that's most GW minis these days - Cal
my thoughts exactly
@@XorLore "most people" think AoS models look better then 40 k ones? Maybe in a subreddit or 2 but I don't think you can claim that as fact for everyone.
The more subtle issue in the Chapterhouse suit was that GW played fast and loose with IP assignment, and it wasn't even clear they owned 40k in its totality. That their IP wasn't novel enough to warrant protection also hit them pretty hard, as you explain.
Yeah pretty much spot on - Cal
I'm glad someone is talking about this. While I think individual ranges from 40k match AOS (I'm thinking the new kreig line and a lot of the tyranid stuff) the new wolf rider goblins solo pretty much everything else.
Check out our WAYPN channel for more information about hobby related stuff - Cal
I think its just the fact that AoS is finally starting to lose the stink associated with End Times and becoming mainstream popular in its own right. GW, recognizing this, is doing what it can to capitalize on this and keep the ball rolling with creative miniatures.
Pretty fair analysis, still think good looking minis certainly gets people on board 😁 - Cal
In my opinion games workshop likes to leave money on the table! I want my exodites!
I agree 👍 - Cal
To be honest the new Death krieg & Eldars looks absolutly fabulous!
And for AoS, sure the minis are stunning, but... an absolute nightmare to paint unless you're a pro painter.
I think unfortunately that all models now days an absolute nightmare to paint unless you are a pro, and I am a commission painter and I have to say, I don't like it some of the time either - Cal
OK, this was amazing, never even considered this.
Glad it was informative - Cal
At least in my area, AOS is very competitive and 40k is more beer and pretzels. AOS just has better game balance and rules. Ive been playing 40k since the 90s and am very disapointed in the rules and power creep. I havent played 40k since the new edition. A few games and i was out...
Yeah, I hear its very regional as to how people take each of the games, I think I said this in another comment who has the opposite situation of you - Cal
Thanks for this Video!
Our pleasure! 😊 - Cal
"Some text on the side" lol
Ohhhh no did we not vet that one ha ha ha 🤣😂🤣 oh well, you caught us with the template we made - Cal
As a AoS fan through and through, I completely agree with your points. I love the narrative, models and lore. I played 40K back in 9th and it was a mistake. The player base is so competitive and lacks any interest in doing narrative/match play games. Plus the rules for 40K suck, you are so limited in what you can build and that too me makes a hobby extremely boring. AoS sure the rules are okay but I’m not buying models for the rules. I have every single army because I like the lore and narrative games.
I think player bases really change depending on location. I have had similar experiences to you but, I have heard very good things from certain areas - Cal
There are 40k players which are less competitive. Actually there are plenty of them. But they are usually not at tournaments and overall more casual players.
Because AoS slaps!!!
Do we have a Dad Hammer fan here?! - Cal
If anyone ever wonders if AOS has better models than 40k, I ask them to find anything that has more character and expression/movement in their models than the gloomspite gitz.
I mean, really. Name one 40k faction that is anywhere near on the level of fun of them. Orks would be the only faction IMO that comes close. And I still feel the gitz step ahead a little more.
Night goblins, huge trolls, amazing character models, amazing squigs, then new wolf riders and doom diver catapult, the troggoth king…all tied together by cute little bio-luminous mushrooms.
And that’s just one faction. Get into some of the new flesh eater courts and Seraphon models and you start seeing some amazing sculpts as well. Sylvaneth are excellent, with idoneth deepkin having some amazing stand alone models which are just perfect.
Even the factions in AOS who have a more traditional cohesive standard model line still competes with 40k lines. fyre slayers, while one note, still manage to stand out with a unique flair. Kharadron overlords as well. Helll, even iron jawz manage to have some great ones.
All in all, I’d say that AOS is superior. Maybe not every faction…beastmen, ogres and giants certainly need a bit more love/updates. And many may just not be someone’s cup of tea. But it’s pretty amazing seeing the creativity and liveliness in the AOS sculpts, compared to the stereotypical 40K poses/models. I’m looking at you, space marine lieutenant variants.
Sounds like you have a passion for AoS, I hope you won't turn on us with the next one. Because we talk about AoS lore ha ha ha - Cal
@ I would say in passionate about AOS models….the lore is a bit of a…mess. I’ll concede that, which is why I think 40k does so well!! The lore is established and goes back decades. The player base really knows and loves their chosen factions. Hell, even I love 40k lore, even though I’d prob never collect and play.
Then I think you will probably agree with our analysis which is it doesn't have any great hits yet but it has some good stuff but no greats - Cal
"more character and expression/movement" is great for WoW of LoL characters of which Gloomspite gitz look like they are from but I don't like it for 40k tbh and I'm glad it's not a thing outside of the goofy new Ork Beast Boyz
literally just starting a Stormcast hollowknight army and just bought all units i thought looked the coolest then built a army around that haha
Rule of cool is the number one way to play - Cal
Interesting thoughts
Thanks 😊 - Cal
It all start by my friend point at chaplain on dragon (ionus cryptborn) and now I have 2000 point stormcast army
Nice 😁 - Cal
@ not kidding every time i glue last piece to model and ? back feel so empty backpack nevermind
Ha ha 😂 - Cal
I got into Warhammer just because I seen random Stormcast box
Cool! Which one was it? - Cal
I visit a few stores where they play Age of Sigmar, and I haven't encountered the types of people you described that sound like morons.. I would say some of the players do choose armies based on how cool they look, but I've noticed that in Warhammer 40,000 as well. I play mainly Age of sigmar due to it being back and forth on the battle. (models looking better too)
They do have nice models - Cal
What are your thoughts on the reveals? Like the eldar or the kriegs?
Would have to take a better look and that video would go on WAYPN but we are going to be focusing on certain content soon 🙂 - Cal
I find AoS has a tendency towards extremes. While it has some of the best looking models GW has produced, it also has some of rhe worst and least inspired. Personally, I chalk this up to a more modern phenomenon I like to call the "corporate toy box". In the way a children's toy box might house Lego blocks, GI Joe action figurs, hot wheels, odds and ends like a Rubik's cube or a yo-yo, so too does a corporate toy box house disparate ideas and concepts.
AoS was, fundamentally, designed around the idea of destroying or breaking up the framework of what came before it and, to a certain degree, remaining as free floating as it can. This has granted the designers assigned to work on it a massive amount of freedom, but that freedom has come at the cost of direction and "investable" material. Personally, i find it pretty telling that the best AoS models tend to be either 40k stuff they drapped a Fantasy skin over or updated/remixed Fantasy models (the new skaven or lizardmen ranges are good exampes of this).
To put it simply, AoS deigners are basically just throwing stuff at the wall becusse AoS still hasn't really solidified its own identity (and I dont think it really can).
I think saying that AoS tend towards extreme is fair. And that it is corporate, but I disagree with the idea it can't have an identity of its own. 40k was once just cyber punk Warhammer fantasy so I think if it can become what it is now. AoS can find it's identity - Cal
@@XorLore It's not so much that it "can't", it's more so that it struggles to do so on account of the nature of its creation.
I think it's important to keep in mind that AoS has been around for about a decade now (longer if you take development time before release into account). It also has the added benefit of (nominally) being a direct sequel to Fantasy. Despite all this, I don't think it has managed to really formulate its own identity, like how both Fantasy and 40k did within a similar time frame.
To avoid writing an essay on the subject, I'll chalk my doubts up to to main things. The first is AoS's conflicting attitudes towards being a sequel. It's a sequel that hates the thing that preceded it, yet relies heavy on it for many of its core elements. The second is AoS's cynical conception. This is partly the corporate toy box thing I talked about before, and partly the fact that AoS isn't really any one person's (or group's) passion project - like how Fantasy and 40k were.
Wanna know!
What is love - Cal
Baby dont hurt me hahah@@XorLore
To me personally the AoS is my least favorite miniature range. I would put them 5th behind 40k, og whfb, mesbg and horus heresy.
To be fair GW makes great if "somewhat" over designed minis so I am unsurprised that people like other lines - Cal
This. This is the video every single warhammer hobbyist and player should see.
A lot of this is stuff is kinda vaguely known by a lot of disparate people. But this is the only vid I've seen that puts it all together in a cohesive way. Top work
Thank you very much, glad you appreciate the work - Cal
i thought this channel was for lore?
You're right it is but this was the very last video done in this style so we put it here. Did you enjoy? - Cal
Sorry, isn't this the lore channel
I thought waypan is for that?
Yeah last one we did in this format and it's a match to the Thursday video we try and keep a them each week 😁 - Cal
New 40k models look very good. Have you seen the new Eldar and Death Korps models from the recent release show? Nothing more to say. And there are many other examples for good recent models in the 40k range. The new Dark Angels, everyting Killteam related etc.
So the question itself is made up in my opinion. 40k and AoS are on the same level but have different backgrounds. 40k is grimdark, dirty and ugly when it comes to the background and AoS is more tolkienesque, high Fantasy, less grimdark. There is maybe more creative freedom with AoS because of this and that is the reason some people think that AoS has 'better' looking models. And they are maybe right: yeah the models look 'better' because the background is nicer and therefore GW has more freedom with the miniature range.
Also it is unfair to claim that 40ks miniatures are getting worse. Sure the blood angels and the new coteaz models were a little bit disappointing. But as I mentioned, there are some many other recent models to compensate these 'fails'.
Have not yet had time to look at the new previews in detail but they look good - Cal
40k is hopepunk now and the new dark angels dont hold a candle to the old dark angel minis
because AoS doesnt have 30 year old model kits
Well some but I catch your point 😉 - Cal
No, the AoS models are ass, they mostly look like WoW rejects now, it's clear they are trying to create Marvel-like hero characters especially with "Order" characters but they end up looking overdesigned and like action figure toys. 40K is also slowly going down this path but not as fast, a lot of new charter models are in a corny action pose with things like smoke effects, over-designed bases and cloth that seems to bend in half.
You sound big mad, most people and not just some reddits agree on this. I think saying that they're overdesigned is fair but so is almost all of the Warhammer models - Cal
They just axed a ton of model something like 4 years old, ain´t never touching that game.
That's fair I can understand that - Cal
Too Busy, guady, over engineered and just basically not great for play model's. They are absolutely not better imop
I think saying not great as game pieces is totally fair if you are looking at them that way. But as painting projects, great... Unless you have an army to paint up - Cal
Ok so…. I have some thoughts.
I will preface this by saying I do like AoS (or at least I used to). AoS is what got me started not just into Warhammer but tabletop miniature wargaming as a whole. So you can’t say I just gave Fantasy nostalgia goggles on like I see so many people try to say when people say anything remotely negative about AoS. I’m also not trying to say AoS is bad and you’re bad for liking it. If anyone does say that then they can go punch sand.
First in reference to the question/statement on thumbnail “will AoS be the next flagship game?”. No I don’t think it will be the next flagship game. In fact, I don’t think it’s doing nearly as well as GW originally hoped it would. Not to say it’s doing bad but from what i’ve heard it’s not doing as well as GW hoped it would.
Now for the thing that really will get people upset. AoS models aren’t nearly as good as people say. Some of them are, but others not so much. I’d say they fall into one of two camps (mostly into one). The first is they look “cool” but really as a display piece and not so much as wargame piece. The second and the bigger issue that I think plagues a lot of the range is over design. It looks more like function follows form like a lot of these Asian made RPGs. There needs to be so much detail because it’s a painting project. I wouldn’t say AoS is for the beer and pretzels people, those people are mostly playing narrative 40k, other games, ME:SBG, or old editions of Fantasy (or now ToW). AoS is for the artists, kitbashers, diorama makers, and other creative sorts. As a result you get so many details and other stuff that caters to those people. As a result the models like I said look overdesigned, not all of them but many (I’m taking about AoS specific not the ones that came from Fantasy). This actually makes me think that the old Fantasy models, the ME:SBG, and some 40K models look better because they aren’t overdesigned.
AoS does have its place though for the artistic among us. And yes there are plenty of AoS non fantasy models I like (the Stormcast dragons for starters lol).
We don't do click bait, read the definition on that, after you said that I switched off - Cal
@@XorLoreIn the thumbnail image it literally says “Will AoS be the next flagship game” when you say that phrase people will assume you’re going claiming it will pass up all other games GW makes and will be the main thing they focus on. I don’t really think that was covered in the video unless you stretch some arguments, and yes I did watch the whole video. As a result I’d say it at least was tangentially related to clickbait if not outright clickbait. I’m sorry if that was not your intent, that’s what I got from it.
Also I did give you the of watching the entire video, hearing you out, and engaging with the video. I say in mostly good faith other then yes calling the thumbnail clickbait which in my defense again the thumbnail mentioned something in the image that I didn’t really see talked about much. You could’ve worded it differently or just left it out. I could’ve just clicked dislike and left before even hearing you out. I have not even disliked the video.
When you say someone uses clickbait you are calling them a liar, you are saying they are inherently dishonest and cannot be trusted. That's not good faith, it's like casually saying someone is a thief, if I called you a thief, would you say that is good faith? I don't think so, calling someone a liar and then expecting engagement isn't a winning move - Cal
@@XorLoreI wouldn’t be so bold as to say you are inherently dishonest and cannot be trusted. there is a difference between a liar and a pathological liar. To say that means they have done that multiple times. If I was to say someone lied or used clickbait that is not the same as calling them someone who is “inherently dishonest and cannot be trusted”. If you had a history of doing that then I would say that, BUT I have not seen any history of that so I wouldn’t call you that. Thus I cannot be saying you are inherently dishonest and cannot be trusted.
I apologize I upset you. Just like I think you should’ve used different words in that image or just put nothing there I should’ve phrased my issue with the image differently. I still say I’m acting in good faith despite that since my intent was not malicious.
I would say that when you have in the thumbnail image “will AoS be the next flagship game” which imply a certain things and I don’t see you talk about it in the video I will call that out.
They don't, pretty much everything that isn't using WHF leftovers look like garbage sans the basic illumineth roomlords phalangites and horse cav.
I think I have heard a lot more people say the exact opposite - Cal
@@XorLore There are a lot of people in the world with beyond abysmal tastes, so that wouldn't surprise me.
i would not agree aos is awful
AoS the game, the model, the lore? They are all very different things - Cal
Counterpoint: Seraphon
@@XorLore lore models theme game have not played it since it first came out
AOS looks like shit and GW try to make 40k turn into it, this is why in my opinion
You are entitled to the option but, I don't think there is a lot of people agreeing - Cal
They dont, they look like shite but a 2000p are cheaper by 30%.
The general consciences disagrees, most people think all the design talent is in AoS but you are entitled to your opinion - Cal
@XorLore i sure do!
Are you on drugs, AoS models are the best in the industry