I appreciated the words he used to explain this case; his diction, speed, photos. English is not my first language and cannot understand well when people mumble. Great job!👏🏼
@@getx1265 - Glad to know that you feel the same way. Years ago I told an American friend that I had problems understanding Barbara Walters, the famous journalist, and my friend replied that he had the same problem. 🧐 Not all born and raised Americans speak the same way. Have a nice day!💐
Your ability to explain these complicated problems in such an understandable way is very unusual. Your clearly comfortable with your professional work. Thanks for your time!!!!
It is interesting to see the focus narrowing with each video. IMO the point of failure is most likely below the floor of the parking garage at the column near parking space #78. Sea water can dissolve limestone and a fissure can turn into a cavern as the water flows in and out with the tides. Someone pointed out that there were 60,000 tidal events over the 40 years that the building stood. And I pointed out it collapsed at low tide. I think this was the trigger. Eventually a huge void could have developed and eroded or undermined the underpinnings of the building. How was this building's foundation constructed? Was it on pilings? How deep did they go? Did they go to bedrock, or were they friction pilings? Was the bedrock limestone?
Albert Einstein once said; "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." It's clear that Josh has a VERY deep understanding of all this because he explains it so simply.
@@zip-fb1re "Explanations for an initial failure at the bottom of the building could include a problem with the deep, reinforced concrete pilings on which the building sits - perhaps set off by an unknown void or a sinkhole below - which then compromised the lower columns." - New York Times The article ends with an engineer saying that the key question is why did the building fail at that moment? My answer: It was low tide. We know that sea water was pulsing in and out of that garage for decades as the tide went in and out. Then on that night it collapsed at low tide.
I was a Nurse since 1982. Had I known that engineering could have been such an interesting field, I may have changed my major. You are just like a forensic Pathologist. Look around the cancer and see how far it has spread. Thank you for this.
Funny I have heard the term concrete cancer. Water gets into the concrete column and makes the rebar rust. The rebar then expands untill the concrete cracks, exposing more of the rebar to water. More rusting, more cracking untill the column collapses.
I was looking for this comment. Lol. Here I am, an English teacher, hanging on to his every word - and wishing I could go to school for engineering. But at 45, I’m starting to feel old... 😳😂
@@gorillaau The water also weakens the concrete itself it weathers the lime out of the cement as has been happening in this building. The stalactites are evidence of this as when water and acids together chemically weather calcium compounds the calcium gets converted to soluble calcium hydroxide. This then rapidly precipitates out as calcium carbonate when the solution comes into contact with air as the calcium hydroxide reacts with the carbon dioxide.
19:45 One very important thing to understand about water damage in structures is, the damage is always worse where the sun doesn't shine. In other words, the water gets inside and there is no heat or dry air to evaporate it so it stays there and rots the wood or rusts the metal. I have seen blistered paint and an inexperienced person would think that it only needs scraping, sanding and painting when in fact, all that is left is the paint. The structure has dissolved. What you see in this Florida building inspection photos is just weeping rust. The structure within could be shot to pieces and ready to explode at any second. I think it was in one of your videos where someone asked, "Could a car have hit a column in the parking garage and caused this?" If the column and the entire structure were sound, that is highly unlikely. If the rebar is rusted and the concrete is compromised, that car hit could be the straw that broke the camel's back. One bad column goes and the other bad columns can't accept the extra load.
that was one of the first things I was thinking : maybe a car hits some of those piles / columns? To me its only one of many things in our world that was constructed around the needs of a car. The whole building is constructed to give as many cars as possible space in the lower deck. I posted it already - IMHO this construction is much to weak in every way. There were almost no reserve in the construction. The colums that first collapsed should only have constructed a few inches thicker, the connection between colums and "beams" (there aren't many beams) / floors was poorly constructed so that it could pancake that easy.
Your comment makes lots of sense except that what we see "mostly" (since we are not actually there on site) is columns "still standing" where the deck collapsed around them. So, the columns didn't fail. The connection between the column and the deck is where the failure occurred. Would tend to indicate not enough or compromised rebar. What rebar that does show up exposed at the tops of those columns where the deck fell looks mighty sparse and is NOT corroded.
@@pappabob29 The decks failing is most certainly compromised concrete rebar beams and the failure points are in direct correlation with the collapse of those decks. Overloading the remaining building columns - as few as a single column - most certainly then brought the rest of the building down. But a vehicle strike could indeed have been the final straw.
@@fraidykat My Son-in-law comes from Florida and worked in construction when he was much younger. He was telling me recently that lots of those buildings (this appears to be one) are/were built with NO BEAMS where the slabs meet the columns. The slabs connect directly to the columns. Again, with precious little steel connecting them to each other. Also, causing "pancaking" with little to no voids (no beam spaces) when the slabs collapse.
Amazing! You gave a psychological perspective, an engineering perspective, a logical perspective, I’ve never been this impressed with an explanation before.
Since you started breaking down your details now all the “others” want to copy. Says a lot about the quality of your reporting and the fact that you take all the “drama” out of it makes it easier to listen and really understand. Great job chief! ✌🏼@monterosamusic
And since it was a condo association, that means the total sum of 15M for the necessary repairs would have been split equally (or roughly) among those living there. Something I'm sure they weren't in a rush to shell out.
Your videos have been the only thing I've found that explains how this disaster has unfolded in an easy to understand and seemingly accurate way. It's a nice change of pace from major media outlets that have simply been engaged in wild speculation and totally light on facts. Great job, and thank you!
“Anytime you want to mess something up in engineering, you get a whole bunch of people involved a little bit. This bridge is a prime example.” David Beck, on the FIU Bridge Collapse
@Lady Wharton So true and in this case, I forecast criminal charges to some key people once the feds get involved. There was mention that the original plans and final build called for a flat garage floor with no slope or drainage for water. I'm curious how that got approved from all of those with the city/county. So, even though that might be how it was built, there are many years of structural indicators suggesting problems are growing and occuring with this building. I'm not an engineer but I can say this much if I were a resident or visitor to this building a few times, the garage floor and columns do not look safe, even in the 2018 pictures. What was the condo management doing about this 10 years ago? This is where they are going to be seeing some major defense happening because of the amount of time they did nothing about visible concrete conditions to structural areas of the building, consistent pumping of sea water out of the garage, old water heating standards, old and original 30+ year HVAC units and much more. Why aren't the condo management folks keeping up with the equipment etc. over the years ? I read a string of emails from the condo management to the city and others and it seemed to me that those running the association were more concerned with little things that don't matter much such as the next door construction just north of this condo, trucks bringing in sand on 88th street and air born styrofoam settling in the pool and spa. All of this while the building is showing off major problems with its structure. My guess is the condo association and their management failed big in keeping the building in good repair as well as neglecting to be proactive with upgrades. It seems as if the board just did repairs as they failed vs. do things on a schedule which is usually how you would run a big public occupied building with maintenance fees each month from its residents. They are to collect enough each month to maintain the building, plan for future major expenses such as new roof, pool remodeling, exterior paint, replacing old equipment with new as they reach their end of life status etc. Then, with the monthly dues being adjusted each year to keep up with those expenses as they become due to get done. When there is a $15 million dollar property assessment suddenly, that means the condo board did not do their due diligence in keeping up with building maintenance and proactive habits of future expenses. There are rules about this and a thing called "reserves" that should be growing in dollars to keep up with this vs. hitting everyone up with a sudden assessment of $8,000 or $100,000 one year. This is blatantly irresponsible management practices and it might just come down to criminal charges due to the huge loss of lives, their assets and property damages.
@@Garth2011 The problem is that even though a RESERVE account is required, in most states the laws don't DEMAND that the account stays funded or even that a Reserve Study be REQUIRED every 2 years. Most of the Property Management companies find their job much easier by just letting maintenance go unattended rather that to argue with the Owners telling them they need to fork out cash for needed repairs, let alone for Preventative Maintenance. Instead they only do emergency repairs after something fails, costing even more money in the end.
@@dalewalker4614 CA is fairly strict on HOA budgets and reserves...When properties transfer, those records are disclosed and can ruin a sale if the buyer see's a problem. That doesn't happen often but the opportunity is there.
This is so true! I moved from nyc to miami last year, and one thing I noticed it’s that I’m the only one always raising up issues in my building. No one else does it! It makes you wonder !
A week ago I would've thought living on the beach in a highrise condo would b a dream come true 🏖️ Right now I'm gr8ful my dog & I live in a 2-story house in AZ 🏜️ Bless those poor people & their pets 💜
With you're intellect, knowledge, concise and unbiased depiction of this event in my opinion, it screams out that you and your company should be hired on this job, and the sooner the better.
It's always so refreshing to get just the facts. CNN picks their interview subjects to augment the drama/fear factor so it isn't surprising that you have some issues with what was said. Thanks for putting the work on these.
We all need to realize that buiying any kind of property implies the need to maintain and repair it as needed. Problems don’t disappear by ignoring them, they only get worse and more costly.
Further... Just... Don't build your house on the beach. Or really in any sort of flood plain. It's not going to work out well long term. Also, avoid any place that used to be a swamp or other wetland.
My son is a PE and is in a very similar line of work as you are. He doesn't live anywhere near FL but I sent your him the links to your first 3 videos and he's very interested in what happened in Miami. We discussed this last night and he's pretty much on the same page as you. Thanks for putting these videos out and explaining things so clearly that I, as a layperson, can converse intelligently about this unfortunate event.
I love your logical approach, and your observations about things like "well this is how we've always done it" and "it's never gone wrong before" are relevant and important to bear in mind in any engineering (and possibly other) situations, not just building design.
Oh, thank you -- someone who understands the difference between a quote and a paraphrase. I appreciate your careful distinction when dealing with evidence -- not just quote/paraphrase, but every other category.
true... many engineer here in Indonesia never concerned into anti-earthquake until 100.000 die to earthquake and following tsunami... complacent and cost saving indeed big factors
Honestly, I think Indonesian buildings did pretty well for how large the earthquake was. There's not much you can do about tsunamis, but the confined masonry building technique that's common there was quite effective in resisting the earthquake itself.
@@CarlosSempereChen well most yeah... because most of them was relatively new 1 story building which as you said Tsunami kill the most... but 2 years later 6 Ritchter Scale eartquake than last for 1 minute in Java (Yogya) kills +6000 people.. despite in Jogja the building is also one story majority, the different is in Jogja the destroyed buildings was old. these 2 big scale earthquake was the wake up call,this time forward engineers and govt starts concerning about earthquake and making new codes/importing new techs also after that Tsunami, govt and people starts formulating safety procedure in case such even happened, coastal area have dedicated muster point Right now, things to do and not to do is widely socialised to people. sirens is installed to tell people if they have to evacuate, tho i am afraid complacent one day will come and govt didnt maintain the siren, so it couldnt be used when needed... i heard we installed some Tsunami buoy that went broken just few years after... some buoy also get stolen and scraped.. i hear
@Building Integrity: I wish I could show you a bridge we have here in Buffalo. The concrete has literally all fallen away and about 6 inches to a foot from the sidewalk upwards is only supported by the rebar. It’s another spot that is always under water as well so your video here makes absolute sense to me. Thank you so much for your time and effort into putting this together.
Great work, I was the mechanical contractor on that building and this is what I think may have happened. 1.) The main shear wall, adjacent elevator shafts and transformer vaults were slip formed ahead of the slab pours and not tied in any substantial way to the portion of the building that collapsed, no or very little rebar visible in photos. The shear wall should have prevented this type of collapse if they were properly tied to the collapsed portion. 2.) The electrical contractor had a MO of putting the transformer vaults every 3rd floor not every floor and running the feeders to the apartments in the slabs between the top and bottom steel these feeder were sometimes 12 to 20 foot wide banks leaving no room for concrete in that portion of the slab. This would always give me the chills. These electrical feeder banks are clearly visible in the photos of the shear wall hanging down from the transformer vaults, you can see how wide they were. They are at the exact spot the collapse started. 3.) Florida Engineering Services were Electrical and Mechanical engineers not structural engineers they apparently valued engineered the structure and were not qualified to do so, they were my engineers for many year as well as the electrical contractors, I knew them well. 4.) I think a sink hole started it all, but if the shear walls were tied in properly and electrical feeder banks did not compromised the slabs it and the columns were not compromised in the parking garage by salt water and value engineering, this would have been just an inconvenience not a disaster.
Very curious about your 2nd point. I can’t see what you are talking about, but I also don’t know what I am looking at. Can you link a pic for reference? Great insight. Thank you!
Very interesting--collapse triggered by a small sinkhole very plausible considering FL's geology. I am sure that in the end the collapse cause will be multifactorial like you say.
I don’t know why but this whole collapse is intriguing to me. So tragic. I think it’s like any other disaster- a bunch of people going about their lives one minute. Then, the next....... It’s awful. I’ve been soaking in anything I can find on this. Your videos are part of that regimen. Appreciate your time, efforts and expertise. I’ve learned a lot. Hope you get to enjoy some of your vacation!
My parents worked in engineering and architecture and I have as well, you explain things in a very clear, straightforward, non-biased way. I really respect your passion and dedication, you were on vacation and still making content, hats off to you friend
Knowing the chemistry of Portland Cement, salt water causing rust within steel reinforced concrete chemically then physically destroys the tension and compression tensile strengths within the column causing catastrophic failures. In addition, occasional bumps by vehicles navigating the parking structure escalate any deficiencies within the columns.
@@onewotldgovernmentonlywhen9044 This building was right on the ocean and there was salt water mist all the time. As an example, my wife's family in southern California had a 1971 Mustang with vinyl top. They lived near the ocean. Even though it only rains 11 inches a year where they lived, there was a lot of rust under the vinyl top-this was due to the salt water mist.
@@onewotldgovernmentonlywhen9044 Ocean front properties are in the direct path of oceanic waves, spray and sea breezes coating surfaces in the path with various levels of sea salt. Also, surfaces that have come into contact with sea water when the water evaporates the sea salt is left behind and is carried by wind, people, wildlife ie birds, vehicles, boats, etc.
Not sure his shoulders can carry all the blame when his report clearly cited in 2018 that the bad spalling effects will grow "exponentially" in the future?
So true. Few have professional integrity and real energy in doing the right thing and think holistically. Words in report very important to send appropriate needs message. You seem to be a true professional in your field!
All the engineers I know were flabbergasted at the one who was saying “we don’t know, we can’t see, etc.”.... The absence of looking does not mean the absence of the ability to look. There is ultrasound, X-ray, ground penetrating radar.....it’s all going to come down to money....
@@davidconnors6532 That is a whole lot of speculation and a serious accusation. This looks like a horrible case of people not wanting to spend money to fix problems, and nothing more. Wild speculations only hurt family and friends of this tragedy. I have never understood why people have to immediately go to the conspiracy theories. Let's wait for the facts.
@@davidconnors6532 the only thing is...9 million vs all of the lawsuits that may be in the hundreds of millions? Not only the millions in loss of life, pain and suffering, etc., but the people who aren’t residents who will sue the condo association saying their property values were irreparably harmed, loss of use if the people at the other complex leave, etc. it’s one thing to burn down an empty warehouse, this would be like burning down a warehouse full of fireworks for the building insurance that end up burn down the whole waterfront and you get sued by everyone. They’re going to wish they only owed 9 million. Insurance won’t pay if a building is lost due to negligence. They couldn’t possibly claim accident or act of God. The only good thing, if there is one, is maybe it will make people rethink building on reclaimed wetlands...or, in layman’s terns, a swamp. This one was only 13 stories. There are many a lot bigger than this one.
haha I like the way you put it. In fairness, a professional on national broadcasts are incredibly leery of lawsuits and what slander suits could come their way if they speculate too clearly... just saying, not defending. Cheers.
I am so glad I found this. I’m on an HOA and had to deal with a major structural issue that was stalled by apathetic owners. They allowed owners who didn’t live there to handle the initial repairs, 10 years, two specials and two new roofs later we are finally water tight and mold free. I knew immediately what happened with that association. If you have a building with a bunch of snow bird owners not willing to pay higher assessments on their vacation and/or investment home. It’s truly a huge problem. I also happen to work in the legal field. That engineer you talked about was totally full of crap and was talking like a guy looking for some premium expert witness work. Will say any bs you need for a fee. I see ‘experts’ like that guy ALL THE TIME.
I've worked with several P.E.'s that couldn't find thier way out of a wet paper bag in my time. I could not agree with you more. I'm so glad you acknowledge that.
I got reemed in another comment section for even mentioning that apathy on the part of the HOA and management company was a major factor. This person was super mad that I was even thinking about that. "That's a lot of money for people to come up with" was their beef with me. How could I say it would have been easy to fix these things years ago, if it was going to cost that much!? But I can't help feel like the cost of repair was a factor in these owners putting off a fix that was needed immediately. Even though they were allowed installment payments. If the code was updated to a 30-35 year inspection on buildings from this era, could that have possibly changed this tragedy?
I got reamed on another comment/channel recommending this channel because the creator mentioned the building had tension rebar when it didn’t. The person said he “lost all credibility “. In the video the creator mentions that over site and explains they look the same at the end where the building was sheared off.
@@jaydenp4975 That was the info he had at that moment. He clearly corrected himself when he realized he was mistaken. This channel is the best I have found on this tragedy.
It is early, but I am starting to get the impression that the condo owners did not want to pay the cost to fix the building. This may have been why repairs were not started in 2018 when the first report came out.
I would say that the wording of that 2018 report 100% is a factor in this as well. We may never know what kind of follow-up information was given to the owners association. My point in the comment in which someone was angry with me was; now that we know that this can happen, and when this building was built, will this ultimately effect how the code changes from now on? If these owners would have had more time to understand the situation and raise funds for renovation would it have possibly saved lives? Common sense says it might have, right?
You are amazing at your explanations & your knowledge is impeccable! You have been telling us all of the reasons why we need inspections & why people shouldn’t complain about increasing HOA fees, etc., for upkeep, inspections or repairs. Your money or your life!
Maybe the building subsidence was the greatest where parking lot 78 was and therefore that is where water pooled and that's what weakened the columns there over time.
Or that was the top of a cavern carved out by the saltwater over the years. Yes the columns seem to have been weakened and/or undermined at that point.
6:00. It's called "Group Think," all too common in Civil Engineering. As I write in a specifications course, chronic issues (lack of proper maintenance) are usually the causes of acute events (building failure).
Great analysis. Could you look into one curious fact? Unlike the sister building, this building had an added penthouse level on top of the portion that collapsed. Perhaps this was added to the design late as an afterthought? Was the additional load calculated properly and were the columns made stronger accordingly? Or did they reduce the load safety margins?
There is also pictures showing that between only half and three quarters of the reinforcement shown on the construction drawings was actually installed in the concrete during construction. The sister building has been condemned due to structural defects as well…
I've noticed that champlain towers north also has a penthouse in the same area as champlain towers south. I still c an t helo but wonder if this was added after the design phase, did they recalculate all the loads and restructure the building to compensate, or did they just say, "eh, it's fine, concrete can take the weight."
If someone had told me 40 years ago that I would be interested in watching videos about Engineering, I would have laughed. Had NO interest at all, but you make this SOOO interesting while explaining it in ways I can understand it that I just keep watching every time I see one pop up. These are currently my favorite videos. I never realized how important engineers are to our lives - not only our buildings but our bridges also. Looking forward to seeing many more! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and helping us understand what MIGHT have caused this building to fall. Now I know what to look out for.
Thank you! I love engineering. It isn't just limited to buildings either. Engineering is in our daily lives, we just don't see it as such. From the way we pick up boxes, to the way our "core" works, from the attachment of wings on planes, to the way we carry grocery bags,... engineering principals can be used to explain almost everything in life. Heck even your favorite toilet paper choice can be explained using terms of shear stress and tensile strength. I will do more videos on this in the farther future.
Just wow. I am blown away. Knowledge is power. I hope this information can save other people's lives in these concrete condos. If you save one life, it would be worth all your time and effort.
I remember seeing an apartment building partially collapse when I was a kid. The front side facing the street collapsed exposing those apartments. Turns out it was a leaking pipe somewhere had weakened the whole facade. It was only a 2 story building tho.
@@jessicadudley5087 It probably wasn’t a pool leak since the pool and the deck around it were intact after the collapse. But yes there was often lots of water in the garage, but if all of that had been leaking from the pool that would have been obvious - the pool level would have gone down noticeably. Instead that water must have been coming from somewhere else.
Doing the right thing when no one is looking is a challenge for most of us. Convincing someone else to do it even as an expert is nigh impossible. It sounds like you may have mastered it.
Thanks Josh. Doing overtime while you are on vacation. You make the complicated easily understandable. Thanks for all the investigating and not jumping to conclusions. Very professional.
The "chalk" story... I can fix things in seconds that others cant fix at all... I tell them the reason why i charge you for a service call is it took me 15 years to lean how to fix that in 5 seconds. I also may have thousands of dollars worth of tools that they would have to buy
Yeah, but truth? I've seen plumbers charge like 500 to replace a faucet. Or some ridiculous amount to replace the toilet components. Yes, it took me longer, but I got it. Still works, too :) Under 20 bucks in parts and no special tools, of course. One said it was 150 to snake a drain. It's just nasty and I don't care to do it. I said come on, 50 cash. Takes about 10 minutes and you're already here. Lol. He took it, so... Not everything is that complicated. I've also seen pros eff things up a lot worse that the average idiot, because the average fool would have STOPPED once they got in too deep. I won't go into people trying to do steam heat with ZERO idea what they're doing!! Wow, did they screw things up. Tools? I buy them, use them once and return. Or rent. Or borrow. :)
That was the problem where I worked. They wouldn't use me because they had promoted me with raises and I was "too expensive". Then after they wasted weeks or months on a problem they'd bring me in and I'd have it fixed before lunch. Then they said I didn't have enough "billable hours". So I asked them if they wanted me to _lie..._
I've read the same story only with a ship and a old mechanic with a tiny hammer. Same principle. And the strong lesson? Pay them what their experience is worth!!!!!
@Sweet Sally Mixed in with couple decent honest workers, there's hundreds and thousands of old hackjobs and conmen who merely passed on their ways to the next generation.
Your channel is brilliant and needed today.. we need competent consult structural engineers.. people who are experts in the field.. they need the power to let the city know the danger..if this had been the case before that building collapsed it would have been marked URGENT and condemned long ago until fixed.. Thankyou for being here and sharing .. hopefully this never happens again ..prayers for flOrida ! I have a feeling your going to be very busy Why was there repair on the roof when the cement on the bottom sat in salt water? I’m not a rocket scientist but my goodness the weight of the building on that wet failing support in the garage 😢
I finally hit the subscribe button because your knowledge of building engineering has compelled me to do so. Thank you for all of your insight. It's incredible to see the paper trail of the history of the building also. Hope you're still enjoying your vacation, but I hope you're gaining views and subscriptions.
Thanks Josh for sharing your forensic insight, you explanations are clear and jargon free. I have learnt a great deal about this tragedy from you. Please keep sharing your knowledge.
I heard a passing comment with an official that they were told the concrete repair needs to happen as soon as possible. Then the building hoa member said in a different interview that the engineer told then the roof is the immediate issue it needs fixed first. She also said several different times now that a city official said their building was fine. I think it's pretty clear they let it go and ignored the engineer because his 2018 report was pretty clear to me that he meant for it to be fixed or it's going to be very very bad within a couple years. It looks like to me you're spot on the pool deck fell and took away lateral support plus possiblity width from those front columns then boom it came down.
GOOD JOB, you nailed it. I was just explaining to another person these very things. what i just said elsewhere: The failure wasn't that information was lost, it was that those who don't know enough to be concerned were waiting for a smart person who does to sound the alarm. Sadly the smart people who recognized it were content to let it go after signaling to the buildings owners that there was danger. Thinking the owners were capable of grasping the danger and imminence of threat, but normal people don't know enough to be alarmed when professionals use language that is unique to their trade. If I tell you, that you have an abundant amount of structural damage to a pool deck, but the overall condition of the buildings structural members is good. You only hear the second part. A normal person doesn't think a structure in danger of collapse can have an overall "good" condition. They don't understand that in a system all parts are connected and failure of the smallest part leads to system failure. I think we as a people need to re-think how we communicate in terms of professional to client. It also happens amongst professionals. I can not tell you how many times, I have been called to a job-site to solve some problem. When I get there, see the problem, one of my first questions is: How did no one catch this earlier? When its easier to fix. 99% of the time, it was caught, multiple people saw it, but they are all looking at it with varying degrees of knowledge. One person asks another, did you notice it? Yeah but no one else seemed concerned, I mentioned it to so and so... You can go right down the chain turns out everyone was so under the pressure of looking competent that they were content to let it go, because other people equally as intelligent, let it go. No one wants to be the guy who stops progress to ask the boss "does this look right?". They would rather be seen as knowing they did it right. Alot of times, this turns 5 minute fixes, into 2 day rebuilds. The only failure was that someone who knew enough to know a problem when they see it, was never informed. We have got to change our practice of making the ignorant feel ignorant, when they ask questions. I love new guys, because they are so clueless that they constantly stop the work, to ask if the work is right rather than wait for someone to say it isn't. They get discouraged from this by other people saying "crap this boss is gonna be pissed." We as a society would save an infinite amount of wealth, if we could just teach everyone to be "new guys". So what the boss is aggravated about time and budget, he would rather have slow and right, than fast and who knows, but we're probably gonna do it twice.
excellent review. I wouldn't be surprised if the final report (expected in a year or so) will determine as probable cause for the failure (maybe with some other contributing factors) what you just described, namely structural failure of one or more columns located at the front side of the middle of the building. Reminds me a bit of the Columbia disaster: The probable cause of the catastrophic failure was identified very early on, by third party analysts. Similarly challenger.
Read into the two shuttle losses you mention. Very different. The Challenger explosion occurred because of exactly what was feared, and why the launch had been delayed: failure of the “O-ring” seals in the solid rocket booster. An engineer at the booster manufacturer told them “Don’t launch that shuttle!” And they did anyway. In the Case of Columbia, it burned up, so the first thing any investigator will look at will be the protective tiles on the nose, which was the cause. In the case of the building in question, there are multiple possibilities, all of which must be investigated.
@@mencken8 The technical stuff is different. Human factors not so much. My only point was, that I was "reminded a bit" of the Columbia disaster. In the Columbia re-entry failure third party investigators were among the first to point out that foam from the main tank might have compromised the integrity of the reinforced tiles (not at the nose, at the ridge of the wing). Challenger was, of course somewhat different, therefore I said "similarly". My post obviously was not meant as a complete comparison of the enfolding investigation on the building collapse with both Shuttle disasters (that would have taken several pages and would have been pointless at such an early stage of investigation). You are right, that for the Challenger failure 2-3 min after launch the (third party) engineers from the Rocket booster manufacturer (MT) pointed out the possibility of failure prior to the launch and recommended against the launch, but NASA management and also MT management ignored it. My only point here would be, that the engineers knew what they were doing and assessed the risks correctly (at roughly 1% failure chance per launch), but management did not take the engineers seriously and their own estimate was far off (more like ~0.01% estimated failure chance per launch, 2 orders of magnitude "better" than the best estimate of the engineers)...
WOW, this is so fascinating. These are the best videos I've seen about this. This is the kind of thing that is missing from all news on TV. Fantastic and easy for the lay person to understand.
Maybe a grading system should be put in place for inspections. Words like exponentially and timely manner mean different things to different people. If a grade F is on the report, and we determine F means evacuate, it won't be left up to interpretation. Graded levels of risk for safety. Then whether we decide to mandate reporting of grades can be another conversation.
Exponential is a solid mathematical term, which is taught in high school or earlier. Exponentially is an alarming word to use in this case. It doesn't take much to Google "timely manner." Timely manner means "done quickly," but may be interpreted differently by some people who don't bother to look up something that isn't clear. Edit: added "or earlier"
I must say, this has been the best explanation of what may have gone wrong. You've mentioned several times that the eastern part of the barrier island is over bedrock. I wonder if the bedrock here is limestone, as it is in much of Florida?
@@LardGreystoke Yes, it is my understanding that ALL of the SE FL pennisula is solid limestone/ancient coral just below the surface, how far below is a matter of how cost effective it would be to secure a foundation 'deep enough'. Note: The park just to the south of this bldg. exists because it was deemed unbuildable.
I’m really enjoying your knowledge on this and I hope you continue to do these examinations in the future of other disasters. So if this happened the three questionable Columns should be mushroomed while the rest of the columns should be snapped would that be a correct assumption? And maybe they can come to a resolution of how this happened if it is indeed left in that state at the bases? EDIT: I would also love to see more of the places you go to do a report on and have you explain what’s going on, the one I found on your channel was fascinating to watch
In an interview with the former maintenance manager, he also questioned the volume of salt water intrusion and pumps inability to keep up. The condo boards response was to just keep replacing pumps as they wore out, because "that's the way it's always been done". This goes back to when he worked there between 1995-2000, so it had already been a problem for some time before he worked there. Corrosion and erosion has probably been occurring at the base of the building for 30 years with nothing but aesthetic repairs and pumps as a solution. It's going to be interesting to see just how many factors contributed to this as the investigation continues.
@@msr1116 Yes it was. He said the water that wasn't making it to the pit where the pumps were eventually seeped out somewhere. Gotta wonder what was going on under the building. Indicative of erosion in addition to the corrosion factor???
I am a regular person and I really appreciate you taking the time to break it down and come up with some theories and explain how and why it would happen if for this and for that so thank you.
Did you have a look-see on the Florida International University pedestrian bridge collapse?? I did plenty of research on that and found numerous indicators that money 💰 was the big factor along with lack of professional responsibility and communication.
Excellent explanation. It makes perfect sense, even to someone without an engineering background.Even from the view of an untrained eye, this exactly the point where the collapse began. Thank you 👍
Do you think this event will change the way engineering reports will be written going forward? Incorporate the use of stronger words such as Collapse, Loss of life, Imminent, etc?
Sould it be also written so it can be understood by someone with an IQ of 60 and illustrated with cartoon pictures? Should safe spaces be created in case someone has an anxiety atttack reading it? Should it have been delivered in sign language as well? Chris you sound like you must be involved in some aspect of public education. LOL
Chris, i say yes. The absence of the word collapse allowed the HOA take its time and there are many "experts" who said the 18 report didn't imply "collapse".
The google images were updated in January of this year, but if you look at the images from 5 years ago the building concrete looks almost new. So you can just see how fast it deteriorated
I think your “adding more steel to this” is on the money. The detail you showed of the “work to be done” image to my thinking had very little horizontal binding reinforcing. It pretty obvious that there was no real design safety factor in this building.
I just have a goofball DIY channel and even I felt compelled to make a video on this a couple days ago. The amount of professional stupidity surrounding this incident is at a level where you average DIY guy is left shaking his head. This absolutely never should have happened. Was 100% preventable and 1000% tragic. I appreciate your content on this subject and think you've done a phenomenal job of stating the facts and not making assumptions. Great channel man.
There's some out there who believe "moar regulationz" will fix the problem. The existing ones didn't work for the exact reason you just explained. This happens with nearly every and any safety regulation out there. I live in the state of VA which has mandatory vehicle safety inspections, and literally any gas station gives them out for 40 bucks a pop.
As stated in previous comments, exponential is a solid mathematical term, which is taught in high school or earlier. There is no gray area to interpret this word. "Exponentially" is an alarming word to use in this case. It doesn't take much to Google "timely manner." Timely manner means "done quickly," but may be interpreted differently by some people who don't bother to look up something that isn't clear to them.
I am very grateful to you for this series of videos on the Champlain Tower collapse. I find the news about loss and grief horrifying and thus have shifted a bit more to the technical/engineering/potential causes aspect of this sad event. You are fact-based -- even when you speculate: you postulate potential causes as possibilities, you don't jump to conclusions, you correct anything you find you were off on in a previous video, and you give a board overview, with some specifics, that has "educated hypotheses" written all over it. As with any investigation or research project there are initial signs or clues -- and I find you do an EXCELLENT presentation with your videos. THANK YOU.
A guy who works on understanding buildings while on vacation truly loves what they do. Thanks for the video.
Really fascinating! A great example of a person who explains things in the perfect way for a curious layperson. Thanks for doing this! 👌
Thanks! It's appreciated!
Absolutely.
Genius in the Truth
I appreciated the words he used to explain this case; his diction, speed, photos. English is not my first language and cannot understand well when people mumble. Great job!👏🏼
@@earth7451 I'm a retired English teacher and too appreciate all those things you mention so I can understand well what he says.
@@getx1265 - Glad to know that you feel the same way.
Years ago I told an American friend that I had problems understanding Barbara Walters, the famous journalist, and my friend replied that he had the same problem. 🧐 Not all born and raised Americans speak the same way.
Have a nice day!💐
Your ability to explain these complicated problems in such an understandable way is very unusual. Your clearly comfortable with your professional work. Thanks for your time!!!!
It is interesting to see the focus narrowing with each video. IMO the point of failure is most likely below the floor of the parking garage at the column near parking space #78. Sea water can dissolve limestone and a fissure can turn into a cavern as the water flows in and out with the tides. Someone pointed out that there were 60,000 tidal events over the 40 years that the building stood. And I pointed out it collapsed at low tide. I think this was the trigger. Eventually a huge void could have developed and eroded or undermined the underpinnings of the building. How was this building's foundation constructed? Was it on pilings? How deep did they go? Did they go to bedrock, or were they friction pilings? Was the bedrock limestone?
Am forwarding your videos to friends and suggesting that they follow. Such a clear explanation of what may be at fault.
Albert Einstein once said; "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." It's clear that Josh has a VERY deep understanding of all this because he explains it so simply.
@@MinusEighty Driven pilings
@@zip-fb1re "Explanations for an initial failure at the bottom of the building could include a problem with the deep, reinforced concrete pilings on which the building sits - perhaps set off by an unknown void or a sinkhole below - which then compromised the lower columns." - New York Times
The article ends with an engineer saying that the key question is why did the building fail at that moment?
My answer: It was low tide. We know that sea water was pulsing in and out of that garage for decades as the tide went in and out. Then on that night it collapsed at low tide.
I was a Nurse since 1982. Had I known that engineering could have been such an interesting field, I may have changed my major. You are just like a forensic Pathologist. Look around the cancer and see how far it has spread. Thank you for this.
Nurse here as well! I said the exact same thing! I definitely had no idea I'd have such intrest in a career like this but here I am!
Funny but I’m a nurse too and I’ve found this to be a very interesting subject. Hmmmm
Funny I have heard the term concrete cancer. Water gets into the concrete column and makes the rebar rust. The rebar then expands untill the concrete cracks, exposing more of the rebar to water. More rusting, more cracking untill the column collapses.
I was looking for this comment. Lol. Here I am, an English teacher, hanging on to his every word - and wishing I could go to school for engineering. But at 45, I’m starting to feel old... 😳😂
@@gorillaau The water also weakens the concrete itself it weathers the lime out of the cement as has been happening in this building. The stalactites are evidence of this as when water and acids together chemically weather calcium compounds the calcium gets converted to soluble calcium hydroxide. This then rapidly precipitates out as calcium carbonate when the solution comes into contact with air as the calcium hydroxide reacts with the carbon dioxide.
19:45 One very important thing to understand about water damage in structures is, the damage is always worse where the sun doesn't shine. In other words, the water gets inside and there is no heat or dry air to evaporate it so it stays there and rots the wood or rusts the metal. I have seen blistered paint and an inexperienced person would think that it only needs scraping, sanding and painting when in fact, all that is left is the paint. The structure has dissolved.
What you see in this Florida building inspection photos is just weeping rust. The structure within could be shot to pieces and ready to explode at any second. I think it was in one of your videos where someone asked, "Could a car have hit a column in the parking garage and caused this?" If the column and the entire structure were sound, that is highly unlikely. If the rebar is rusted and the concrete is compromised, that car hit could be the straw that broke the camel's back. One bad column goes and the other bad columns can't accept the extra load.
that was one of the first things I was thinking : maybe a car hits some of those piles / columns? To me its only one of many things in our world that was constructed around the needs of a car. The whole building is constructed to give as many cars as possible space in the lower deck. I posted it already - IMHO this construction is much to weak in every way. There were almost no reserve in the construction. The colums that first collapsed should only have constructed a few inches thicker, the connection between colums and "beams" (there aren't many beams) / floors was poorly constructed so that it could pancake that easy.
The deck collapse would be sufficient to cause the uneven loading.
Your comment makes lots of sense except that what we see "mostly" (since we are not actually there on site) is columns "still standing" where the deck collapsed around them. So, the columns didn't fail. The connection between the column and the deck is where the failure occurred. Would tend to indicate not enough or compromised rebar. What rebar that does show up exposed at the tops of those columns where the deck fell looks mighty sparse and is NOT corroded.
@@pappabob29 The decks failing is most certainly compromised concrete rebar beams and the failure points are in direct correlation with the collapse of those decks. Overloading the remaining building columns - as few as a single column - most certainly then brought the rest of the building down.
But a vehicle strike could indeed have been the final straw.
@@fraidykat
My Son-in-law comes from Florida and worked in construction when he was much younger. He was telling me recently that lots of those buildings (this appears to be one) are/were built with NO BEAMS where the slabs meet the columns. The slabs connect directly to the columns. Again, with precious little steel connecting them to each other. Also, causing "pancaking" with little to no voids (no beam spaces) when the slabs collapse.
Amazing! You gave a psychological perspective, an engineering perspective, a logical perspective, I’ve never been this impressed with an explanation before.
Since you started breaking down your details now all the “others” want to copy. Says a lot about the quality of your reporting and the fact that you take all the “drama” out of it makes it easier to listen and really understand. Great job chief! ✌🏼@monterosamusic
Great, neutral reporting. Very informative.
Thanks guys!
Yes, I noticed. Copied him Word for word, too.
Copying is the best kind of flattering they say
The sad part is that many places neglect fixing stuff or never inspect homes or buildings till a tragedy happens
Of course--they are hoping that the NEXT poor schmuck will be saddled with the problem...
And since it was a condo association, that means the total sum of 15M for the necessary repairs would have been split equally (or roughly) among those living there. Something I'm sure they weren't in a rush to shell out.
That’s what lawyers are for. ☝️🧐
Everything costs money and nobody wants to spend it.
Just de-regulate, lower taxes and fly some American flags, right?
That makes all problems go away.
Your videos have been the only thing I've found that explains how this disaster has unfolded in an easy to understand and seemingly accurate way. It's a nice change of pace from major media outlets that have simply been engaged in wild speculation and totally light on facts. Great job, and thank you!
“Anytime you want to mess something up in engineering, you get a whole bunch of people involved a little bit. This bridge is a prime example.” David Beck, on the FIU Bridge Collapse
The more people involved in something, usually the worse things are.
@Lady Wharton So true and in this case, I forecast criminal charges to some key people once the feds get involved. There was mention that the original plans and final build called for a flat garage floor with no slope or drainage for water. I'm curious how that got approved from all of those with the city/county. So, even though that might be how it was built, there are many years of structural indicators suggesting problems are growing and occuring with this building. I'm not an engineer but I can say this much if I were a resident or visitor to this building a few times, the garage floor and columns do not look safe, even in the 2018 pictures. What was the condo management doing about this 10 years ago? This is where they are going to be seeing some major defense happening because of the amount of time they did nothing about visible concrete conditions to structural areas of the building, consistent pumping of sea water out of the garage, old water heating standards, old and original 30+ year HVAC units and much more. Why aren't the condo management folks keeping up with the equipment etc. over the years ?
I read a string of emails from the condo management to the city and others and it seemed to me that those running the association were more concerned with little things that don't matter much such as the next door construction just north of this condo, trucks bringing in sand on 88th street and air born styrofoam settling in the pool and spa. All of this while the building is showing off major problems with its structure. My guess is the condo association and their management failed big in keeping the building in good repair as well as neglecting to be proactive with upgrades. It seems as if the board just did repairs as they failed vs. do things on a schedule which is usually how you would run a big public occupied building with maintenance fees each month from its residents. They are to collect enough each month to maintain the building, plan for future major expenses such as new roof, pool remodeling, exterior paint, replacing old equipment with new as they reach their end of life status etc. Then, with the monthly dues being adjusted each year to keep up with those expenses as they become due to get done. When there is a $15 million dollar property assessment suddenly, that means the condo board did not do their due diligence in keeping up with building maintenance and proactive habits of future expenses. There are rules about this and a thing called "reserves" that should be growing in dollars to keep up with this vs. hitting everyone up with a sudden assessment of $8,000 or $100,000 one year. This is blatantly irresponsible management practices and it might just come down to criminal charges due to the huge loss of lives, their assets and property damages.
People responsible in this tragedy are going to get hammered by the law unlike the FIU bridge cause apparently no politician was involved here
@@Garth2011 The problem is that even though a RESERVE account is required, in most states the laws don't DEMAND that the account stays funded or even that a Reserve Study be REQUIRED every 2 years. Most of the Property Management companies find their job much easier by just letting maintenance go unattended rather that to argue with the Owners telling them they need to fork out cash for needed repairs, let alone for Preventative Maintenance. Instead they only do emergency repairs after something fails, costing even more money in the end.
@@dalewalker4614 CA is fairly strict on HOA budgets and reserves...When properties transfer, those records are disclosed and can ruin a sale if the buyer see's a problem. That doesn't happen often but the opportunity is there.
Wasn’t expecting another video so soon. You’re doing the lord’s work bringing expert insight into this case. Thanks for covering this case!
Couldn't agree with you more Blue Rivers!!!!
This is so true! I moved from nyc to miami last year, and one thing I noticed it’s that I’m the only one always raising up issues in my building. No one else does it! It makes you wonder !
That has got to be stressful, sorry your neighbors aren't as interested in trying to help the complex as you.. ♡
Hope your building is in better shape and not as exposed.
I like your presentations. You are very detailed yet very easy to follow as a layman. Keep it up!
YES!
A week ago I would've thought living on the beach in a highrise condo would b a dream come true 🏖️
Right now I'm gr8ful my dog & I live in a 2-story house in AZ 🏜️
Bless those poor people & their pets 💜
get out of that 2-story now!
With you're intellect, knowledge, concise and unbiased depiction of this event in my opinion, it screams out that you and your company should be hired on this job, and the sooner the better.
It's always so refreshing to get just the facts. CNN picks their interview subjects to augment the drama/fear factor so it isn't surprising that you have some issues with what was said. Thanks for putting the work on these.
They’re pretty much tabloid news at this point.
We all need to realize that buiying any kind of property implies the need to maintain and repair it as needed. Problems don’t disappear by ignoring them, they only get worse and more costly.
Further... Just... Don't build your house on the beach. Or really in any sort of flood plain. It's not going to work out well long term. Also, avoid any place that used to be a swamp or other wetland.
My son is a PE and is in a very similar line of work as you are. He doesn't live anywhere near FL but I sent your him the links to your first 3 videos and he's very interested in what happened in Miami. We discussed this last night and he's pretty much on the same page as you. Thanks for putting these videos out and explaining things so clearly that I, as a layperson, can converse intelligently about this unfortunate event.
I love your logical approach, and your observations about things like "well this is how we've always done it" and "it's never gone wrong before" are relevant and important to bear in mind in any engineering (and possibly other) situations, not just building design.
You need to be interviewed by all media. Idk much about building integrity but u explain it in such a way that everyone would understand
"PE doesn't mean you know what you are talking about" Amen.
Oh, thank you -- someone who understands the difference between a quote and a paraphrase. I appreciate your careful distinction when dealing with evidence -- not just quote/paraphrase, but every other category.
Thanks for making these videos they are very informative to people like me that know nothing about how these buildings work
I’ve been terrified of these large buildings since I was a kid. They’re terrifying and I absolutely hate cement parking structures.
These are the best videos I've found on the collapse by far, and all while you're on holiday!
true... many engineer here in Indonesia never concerned into anti-earthquake until 100.000 die to earthquake and following tsunami...
complacent and cost saving indeed big factors
Honestly, I think Indonesian buildings did pretty well for how large the earthquake was. There's not much you can do about tsunamis, but the confined masonry building technique that's common there was quite effective in resisting the earthquake itself.
@@CarlosSempereChen well most yeah... because most of them was relatively new 1 story building which as you said Tsunami kill the most...
but 2 years later 6 Ritchter Scale eartquake than last for 1 minute in Java (Yogya) kills +6000 people.. despite in Jogja the building is also one story majority, the different is in Jogja the destroyed buildings was old.
these 2 big scale earthquake was the wake up call,this time forward engineers and govt starts concerning about earthquake and making new codes/importing new techs
also after that Tsunami, govt and people starts formulating safety procedure in case such even happened, coastal area have dedicated muster point Right now, things to do and not to do is widely socialised to people. sirens is installed to tell people if they have to evacuate, tho i am afraid complacent one day will come and govt didnt maintain the siren, so it couldnt be used when needed...
i heard we installed some Tsunami buoy that went broken just few years after... some buoy also get stolen and scraped.. i hear
The holy dollar is unfortunately worth more than human lives. Sad but true
_Human lives are cheap nowadays. Unless you are rich._
@Building Integrity: I wish I could show you a bridge we have here in Buffalo. The concrete has literally all fallen away and about 6 inches to a foot from the sidewalk upwards is only supported by the rebar. It’s another spot that is always under water as well so your video here makes absolute sense to me. Thank you so much for your time and effort into putting this together.
Great work, I was the mechanical contractor on that building and this is what I think may have happened.
1.) The main shear wall, adjacent elevator shafts and transformer vaults were slip formed ahead of the slab pours and not tied in any substantial way to the portion of the building that collapsed, no or very little rebar visible in photos. The shear wall should have prevented this type of collapse if they were properly tied to the collapsed portion.
2.) The electrical contractor had a MO of putting the transformer vaults every 3rd floor not every floor and running the feeders to the apartments in the slabs between the top and bottom steel these feeder were sometimes 12 to 20 foot wide banks leaving no room for concrete in that portion of the slab. This would always give me the chills.
These electrical feeder banks are clearly visible in the photos of the shear wall hanging down from the transformer vaults, you can see how wide they were. They are at the exact spot the collapse started.
3.) Florida Engineering Services were Electrical and Mechanical engineers not structural engineers they apparently valued engineered the structure and were not qualified to do so, they were my engineers for many year as well as the electrical contractors, I knew them well.
4.) I think a sink hole started it all, but if the shear walls were tied in properly and electrical feeder banks did not compromised the slabs it and the columns were not compromised in the parking garage by salt water and value engineering, this would have been just an inconvenience not a disaster.
Thank you for those insights. Electrical displacing structural concrete is terrifying.
Amazing insight thank you!
Very curious about your 2nd point. I can’t see what you are talking about, but I also don’t know what I am looking at. Can you link a pic for reference? Great insight. Thank you!
Very interesting--collapse triggered by a small sinkhole very plausible considering FL's geology. I am sure that in the end the collapse cause will be multifactorial like you say.
@ta Do you know who was the electrical contractor?
I don’t know why but this whole collapse is intriguing to me. So tragic. I think it’s like any other disaster- a bunch of people going about their lives one minute. Then, the next.......
It’s awful. I’ve been soaking in anything I can find on this. Your videos are part of that regimen. Appreciate your time, efforts and expertise. I’ve learned a lot. Hope you get to enjoy some of your vacation!
You should teach classes. You explain things better than alot of Professors at Universities. Thanks for everything you're doing!
My parents worked in engineering and architecture and I have as well, you explain things in a very clear, straightforward, non-biased way. I really respect your passion and dedication, you were on vacation and still making content, hats off to you friend
Knowing the chemistry of Portland Cement, salt water causing rust within steel reinforced concrete chemically then physically destroys the tension and compression tensile strengths within the column causing catastrophic failures.
In addition, occasional bumps by vehicles navigating the parking structure escalate any deficiencies within the columns.
When it rains in Florida it doesn’t rain salt water
@@onewotldgovernmentonlywhen9044 This building was right on the ocean and there was salt water mist all the time. As an example, my wife's family in southern California had a 1971 Mustang with vinyl top. They lived near the ocean. Even though it only rains 11 inches a year where they lived, there was a lot of rust under the vinyl top-this was due to the salt water mist.
@@pattyeverett2826 bingo!
@@onewotldgovernmentonlywhen9044 Ocean front properties are in the direct path of oceanic waves, spray and sea breezes coating surfaces in the path with various levels of sea salt.
Also, surfaces that have come into contact with sea water when the water evaporates the sea salt is left behind and is carried by wind, people, wildlife ie birds, vehicles, boats, etc.
Could be the water table is shallow under that parking garage. Water would seep up thru the foundation.
I was so excited for this video to premiere today. Thanks for explaining in terms people with no background in engineering can understand!
Not sure his shoulders can carry all the blame when his report clearly cited in 2018 that the bad spalling effects will grow "exponentially" in the future?
@@joeycmore What are you talking about? I didn't put all the blame on anyone's shoulders.
Apathy allows all kinds of things to happen.
How many engineers walked that place and thought to themselves....Glad I don't live here.
I googled and one structural engineer was listed as among the diseased. So sad, so many victims, many pensioners but many young people too.
So true. Few have professional integrity and real energy in doing the right thing and think holistically. Words in report very important to send appropriate needs message. You seem to be a true professional in your field!
You are doing such a good job explaining and I am learning so much!
All the engineers I know were flabbergasted at the one who was saying “we don’t know, we can’t see, etc.”.... The absence of looking does not mean the absence of the ability to look. There is ultrasound, X-ray, ground penetrating radar.....it’s all going to come down to money....
To me it bears a resemblance to nano nukes so they should start with a Geiger Counter.
@@davidconnors6532 That is a whole lot of speculation and a serious accusation. This looks like a horrible case of people not wanting to spend money to fix problems, and nothing more. Wild speculations only hurt family and friends of this tragedy. I have never understood why people have to immediately go to the conspiracy theories. Let's wait for the facts.
@@davidconnors6532 the only thing is...9 million vs all of the lawsuits that may be in the hundreds of millions? Not only the millions in loss of life, pain and suffering, etc., but the people who aren’t residents who will sue the condo association saying their property values were irreparably harmed, loss of use if the people at the other complex leave, etc. it’s one thing to burn down an empty warehouse, this would be like burning down a warehouse full of fireworks for the building insurance that end up burn down the whole waterfront and you get sued by everyone. They’re going to wish they only owed 9 million. Insurance won’t pay if a building is lost due to negligence. They couldn’t possibly claim accident or act of God. The only good thing, if there is one, is maybe it will make people rethink building on reclaimed wetlands...or, in layman’s terns, a swamp. This one was only 13 stories. There are many a lot bigger than this one.
@@davidconnors6532 you're trippin
@@davidconnors6532 please use some punctuation. One big run on sentence makes no sense.
Your videos and your time is very much appreciated! ! !
I’d like to see you giving these explanations on CNN, ABC, and the other major news channels. How can we make that happen?
They'd never have someone on who would actually make sense
That won’t help the cover up
@@algon6599 , What cover up?
haha I like the way you put it. In fairness, a professional on national broadcasts are incredibly leery of lawsuits and what slander suits could come their way if they speculate too clearly... just saying, not defending. Cheers.
CNN is never interested in the truth and they only report what their major stockholders want reported.
I am so glad I found this. I’m on an HOA and had to deal with a major structural issue that was stalled by apathetic owners. They allowed owners who didn’t live there to handle the initial repairs, 10 years, two specials and two new roofs later we are finally water tight and mold free. I knew immediately what happened with that association. If you have a building with a bunch of snow bird owners not willing to pay higher assessments on their vacation and/or investment home. It’s truly a huge problem. I also happen to work in the legal field. That engineer you talked about was totally full of crap and was talking like a guy looking for some premium expert witness work. Will say any bs you need for a fee. I see ‘experts’ like that guy ALL THE TIME.
Yes!! And it is SOOOO SAD.. THIS is WHY we NEED TOUGH Regulations on Buildings, Bridges, etc!!!!!
Inspectors can be bribed or they may have smoked their breackfa breakfast !!!!##
I've worked with several P.E.'s that couldn't find thier way out of a wet paper bag in my time. I could not agree with you more. I'm so glad you acknowledge that.
I got reemed in another comment section for even mentioning that apathy on the part of the HOA and management company was a major factor. This person was super mad that I was even thinking about that. "That's a lot of money for people to come up with" was their beef with me. How could I say it would have been easy to fix these things years ago, if it was going to cost that much!? But I can't help feel like the cost of repair was a factor in these owners putting off a fix that was needed immediately. Even though they were allowed installment payments. If the code was updated to a 30-35 year inspection on buildings from this era, could that have possibly changed this tragedy?
I got reamed on another comment/channel recommending this channel because the creator mentioned the building had tension rebar when it didn’t. The person said he “lost all credibility “. In the video the creator mentions that over site and explains they look the same at the end where the building was sheared off.
@@jaydenp4975 That was the info he had at that moment. He clearly corrected himself when he realized he was mistaken. This channel is the best I have found on this tragedy.
It is early, but I am starting to get the impression that the condo owners did not want to pay the cost to fix the building. This may have been why repairs were not started in 2018 when the first report came out.
Which is more important?
Money or lives?
Careful how you answer...
I would say that the wording of that 2018 report 100% is a factor in this as well. We may never know what kind of follow-up information was given to the owners association. My point in the comment in which someone was angry with me was; now that we know that this can happen, and when this building was built, will this ultimately effect how the code changes from now on? If these owners would have had more time to understand the situation and raise funds for renovation would it have possibly saved lives? Common sense says it might have, right?
You are amazing at your explanations & your knowledge is impeccable! You have been telling us all of the reasons why we need inspections & why people shouldn’t complain about increasing HOA fees, etc., for upkeep, inspections or repairs. Your money or your life!
Maybe the building subsidence was the greatest where parking lot 78 was and therefore that is where water pooled and that's what weakened the columns there over time.
Or that was the top of a cavern carved out by the saltwater over the years. Yes the columns seem to have been weakened and/or undermined at that point.
Thank You for taking time and imploying your resources to explain this complex situation in a manner the average lay person can understand.
6:00. It's called "Group Think," all too common in Civil Engineering.
As I write in a specifications course, chronic issues (lack of proper maintenance) are usually the causes of acute events (building failure).
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, observations and knowledge. The information and context you have provided is greatly appreciated.
I can tell you really know what you're talking about, keep it up!
AGAIN, THANK YOU. AMERICA NEEDS PROFESSIONALS LIKE YOU TO TRAIN OUR YOUNG ENGINEERS.
Great analysis. Could you look into one curious fact? Unlike the sister building, this building had an added penthouse level on top of the portion that collapsed. Perhaps this was added to the design late as an afterthought? Was the additional load calculated properly and were the columns made stronger accordingly? Or did they reduce the load safety margins?
Great observation!
There is also pictures showing that between only half and three quarters of the reinforcement shown on the construction drawings was actually installed in the concrete during construction.
The sister building has been condemned due to structural defects as well…
UH, no, pure speculation, we would have heard of that by now
@@jaydenp4975 your a clown 2
I've noticed that champlain towers north also has a penthouse in the same area as champlain towers south. I still c an t helo but wonder if this was added after the design phase, did they recalculate all the loads and restructure the building to compensate, or did they just say, "eh, it's fine, concrete can take the weight."
If someone had told me 40 years ago that I would be interested in watching videos about Engineering, I would have laughed. Had NO interest at all, but you make this SOOO interesting while explaining it in ways I can understand it that I just keep watching every time I see one pop up. These are currently my favorite videos. I never realized how important engineers are to our lives - not only our buildings but our bridges also. Looking forward to seeing many more! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and helping us understand what MIGHT have caused this building to fall. Now I know what to look out for.
Thank you! I love engineering. It isn't just limited to buildings either. Engineering is in our daily lives, we just don't see it as such. From the way we pick up boxes, to the way our "core" works, from the attachment of wings on planes, to the way we carry grocery bags,... engineering principals can be used to explain almost everything in life. Heck even your favorite toilet paper choice can be explained using terms of shear stress and tensile strength. I will do more videos on this in the farther future.
@@BuildingIntegrity Wow! I didn’t even think about all those things! I am loving engineering also after watching your videos!
Love watching your videos. So informative even for a lay person.
Just wow. I am blown away. Knowledge is power. I hope this information can save other people's lives in these concrete condos. If you save one life, it would be worth all your time and effort.
I remember seeing an apartment building partially collapse when I was a kid. The front side facing the street collapsed exposing those apartments. Turns out it was a leaking pipe somewhere had weakened the whole facade. It was only a 2 story building tho.
I’ve been wondering if there was a leak at the pool. Happens all the time, but in the ground
@@jessicadudley5087 It probably wasn’t a pool leak since the pool and the deck around it were intact after the collapse. But yes there was often lots of water in the garage, but if all of that had been leaking from the pool that would have been obvious - the pool level would have gone down noticeably. Instead that water must have been coming from somewhere else.
Your thoughts are dead on. Don't ever change your thought process. Fantastic deep dive on multiple levels.
Doing the right thing when no one is looking is a challenge for most of us. Convincing someone else to do it even as an expert is nigh impossible. It sounds like you may have mastered it.
Thanks Josh. Doing overtime while you are on vacation. You make the complicated easily understandable. Thanks for all the investigating and not jumping to conclusions. Very professional.
The "chalk" story... I can fix things in seconds that others cant fix at all... I tell them the reason why i charge you for a service call is it took me 15 years to lean how to fix that in 5 seconds. I also may have thousands of dollars worth of tools that they would have to buy
Exactly.
Yeah, but truth? I've seen plumbers charge like 500 to replace a faucet. Or some ridiculous amount to replace the toilet components.
Yes, it took me longer, but I got it. Still works, too :) Under 20 bucks in parts and no special tools, of course.
One said it was 150 to snake a drain. It's just nasty and I don't care to do it. I said come on, 50 cash. Takes about 10 minutes and you're already here. Lol.
He took it, so...
Not everything is that complicated.
I've also seen pros eff things up a lot worse that the average idiot, because the average fool would have STOPPED once they got in too deep.
I won't go into people trying to do steam heat with ZERO idea what they're doing!! Wow, did they screw things up.
Tools? I buy them, use them once and return. Or rent. Or borrow. :)
That was the problem where I worked. They wouldn't use me because they had promoted me with raises and I was "too expensive". Then after they wasted weeks or months on a problem they'd bring me in and I'd have it fixed before lunch. Then they said I didn't have enough "billable hours". So I asked them if they wanted me to _lie..._
I've read the same story only with a ship and a old mechanic with a tiny hammer. Same principle. And the strong lesson? Pay them what their experience is worth!!!!!
@Sweet Sally Mixed in with couple decent honest workers, there's hundreds and thousands of old hackjobs and conmen who merely passed on their ways to the next generation.
I have been learning many things from you and I fully appreciate your work here. Thank you...
Thank you for explaining this, better than any recent media coverage I’ve seen
Your channel is brilliant and needed today.. we need competent consult structural engineers.. people who are experts in the field.. they need the power to let the city know the danger..if this had been the case before that building collapsed it would have been marked URGENT and condemned long ago until fixed.. Thankyou for being here and sharing .. hopefully this never happens again ..prayers for flOrida ! I have a feeling your going to be very busy
Why was there repair on the roof when the cement on the bottom sat in salt water? I’m not a rocket scientist but my goodness the weight of the building on that wet failing support in the garage 😢
I finally hit the subscribe button because your knowledge of building engineering has compelled me to do so. Thank you for all of your insight. It's incredible to see the paper trail of the history of the building also. Hope you're still enjoying your vacation, but I hope you're gaining views and subscriptions.
Thanks Josh for sharing your forensic insight, you explanations are clear and jargon free. I have learnt a great deal about this tragedy from you. Please keep sharing your knowledge.
As an engineer (without a PE) I love this guy.
You used enough logic...
And your honesty about you don't want to create a conclusion but also not speculation..
You made me subscribe!
Thanks for another great video!
You are doing a good job on this report. I trust a building engineer before anyone else. Thank you for your info.
I heard a passing comment with an official that they were told the concrete repair needs to happen as soon as possible. Then the building hoa member said in a different interview that the engineer told then the roof is the immediate issue it needs fixed first. She also said several different times now that a city official said their building was fine. I think it's pretty clear they let it go and ignored the engineer because his 2018 report was pretty clear to me that he meant for it to be fixed or it's going to be very very bad within a couple years. It looks like to me you're spot on the pool deck fell and took away lateral support plus possiblity width from those front columns then boom it came down.
believe everything you hear I always say!
GOOD JOB, you nailed it. I was just explaining to another person these very things.
what i just said elsewhere:
The failure wasn't that information was lost, it was that those who don't know enough to be concerned were waiting for a smart person who does to sound the alarm. Sadly the smart people who recognized it were content to let it go after signaling to the buildings owners that there was danger. Thinking the owners were capable of grasping the danger and imminence of threat, but normal people don't know enough to be alarmed when professionals use language that is unique to their trade. If I tell you, that you have an abundant amount of structural damage to a pool deck, but the overall condition of the buildings structural members is good. You only hear the second part. A normal person doesn't think a structure in danger of collapse can have an overall "good" condition. They don't understand that in a system all parts are connected and failure of the smallest part leads to system failure. I think we as a people need to re-think how we communicate in terms of professional to client.
It also happens amongst professionals. I can not tell you how many times, I have been called to a job-site to solve some problem. When I get there, see the problem, one of my first questions is: How did no one catch this earlier? When its easier to fix. 99% of the time, it was caught, multiple people saw it, but they are all looking at it with varying degrees of knowledge. One person asks another, did you notice it? Yeah but no one else seemed concerned, I mentioned it to so and so... You can go right down the chain turns out everyone was so under the pressure of looking competent that they were content to let it go, because other people equally as intelligent, let it go. No one wants to be the guy who stops progress to ask the boss "does this look right?". They would rather be seen as knowing they did it right. Alot of times, this turns 5 minute fixes, into 2 day rebuilds. The only failure was that someone who knew enough to know a problem when they see it, was never informed. We have got to change our practice of making the ignorant feel ignorant, when they ask questions. I love new guys, because they are so clueless that they constantly stop the work, to ask if the work is right rather than wait for someone to say it isn't. They get discouraged from this by other people saying "crap this boss is gonna be pissed."
We as a society would save an infinite amount of wealth, if we could just teach everyone to be "new guys". So what the boss is aggravated about time and budget, he would rather have slow and right, than fast and who knows, but we're probably gonna do it twice.
excellent review. I wouldn't be surprised if the final report (expected in a year or so) will determine as probable cause for the failure (maybe with some other contributing factors) what you just described, namely structural failure of one or more columns located at the front side of the middle of the building. Reminds me a bit of the Columbia disaster: The probable cause of the catastrophic failure was identified very early on, by third party analysts. Similarly challenger.
Read into the two shuttle losses you mention. Very different. The Challenger explosion occurred because of exactly what was feared, and why the launch had been delayed: failure of the “O-ring” seals in the solid rocket booster. An engineer at the booster manufacturer told them “Don’t launch that shuttle!” And they did anyway. In the Case of Columbia, it burned up, so the first thing any investigator will look at will be the protective tiles on the nose, which was the cause. In the case of the building in question, there are multiple possibilities, all of which must be investigated.
@@mencken8 The technical stuff is different. Human factors not so much. My only point was, that I was "reminded a bit" of the Columbia disaster.
In the Columbia re-entry failure third party investigators were among the first to point out that foam from the main tank might have compromised the integrity of the reinforced tiles (not at the nose, at the ridge of the wing). Challenger was, of course somewhat different, therefore I said "similarly".
My post obviously was not meant as a complete comparison of the enfolding investigation on the building collapse with both Shuttle disasters (that would have taken several pages and would have been pointless at such an early stage of investigation).
You are right, that for the Challenger failure 2-3 min after launch the (third party) engineers from the Rocket booster manufacturer (MT) pointed out the possibility of failure prior to the launch and recommended against the launch, but NASA management and also MT management ignored it. My only point here would be, that the engineers knew what they were doing and assessed the risks correctly (at roughly 1% failure chance per launch), but management did not take the engineers seriously and their own estimate was far off (more like ~0.01% estimated failure chance per launch, 2 orders of magnitude "better" than the best estimate of the engineers)...
WOW, this is so fascinating. These are the best videos I've seen about this. This is the kind of thing that is missing from all news on TV. Fantastic and easy for the lay person to understand.
Maybe a grading system should be put in place for inspections. Words like exponentially and timely manner mean different things to different people. If a grade F is on the report, and we determine F means evacuate, it won't be left up to interpretation. Graded levels of risk for safety. Then whether we decide to mandate reporting of grades can be another conversation.
That is a great idea!!
Exponential is a solid mathematical term, which is taught in high school or earlier. Exponentially is an alarming word to use in this case.
It doesn't take much to Google "timely manner." Timely manner means "done quickly," but may be interpreted differently by some people who don't bother to look up something that isn't clear.
Edit: added "or earlier"
@@polyphase4425 so hopefully HOA is better in math than me.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom! You are modest and honest!
Josh,
Great video and explanation for a lay person like myself - thank you! I am a new subscriber.
Paul (in MA)
I've been binging your videos! Really interesting stuff! Thank you for sharing your expertise.
I must say, this has been the best explanation of what may have gone wrong. You've mentioned several times that the eastern part of the barrier island is over bedrock. I wonder if the bedrock here is limestone, as it is in much of Florida?
Yes. Probably coral reef from past interglacials when sea level was higher.
@@LardGreystoke Yes, it is my understanding that ALL of the SE FL pennisula is solid limestone/ancient coral just below the surface, how far below is a matter of how cost effective it would be to secure a foundation 'deep enough'. Note: The park just to the south of this bldg. exists because it was deemed unbuildable.
@@InjuredRobot.Oh my. I wonder if they even knew. I would have thought that it added to the charm and beauty of Surfside and not a warning.
Thank you for your expertise and efforts while on vacation! Very clear and informative
Fascinating! Thank you for teaching us.
Thank you for explaining well what could have brought part of the building.
0:36 and *THIS* is why I subbed 💙 🤓 PS Your channel is blowing up right now, congrats!!! And tysm for the content on the collapse so far 👏
You are wonderful. Very interesting information...great job covering the condo collapse possibilities.
I’m really enjoying your knowledge on this and I hope you continue to do these examinations in the future of other disasters. So if this happened the three questionable Columns should be mushroomed while the rest of the columns should be snapped would that be a correct assumption? And maybe they can come to a resolution of how this happened if it is indeed left in that state at the bases? EDIT: I would also love to see more of the places you go to do a report on and have you explain what’s going on, the one I found on your channel was fascinating to watch
Your information is better than any news organization. Thank You
Thank you!
In an interview with the former maintenance manager, he also questioned the volume of salt water intrusion and pumps inability to keep up. The condo boards response was to just keep replacing pumps as they wore out, because "that's the way it's always been done". This goes back to when he worked there between 1995-2000, so it had already been a problem for some time before he worked there. Corrosion and erosion has probably been occurring at the base of the building for 30 years with nothing but aesthetic repairs and pumps as a solution. It's going to be interesting to see just how many factors contributed to this as the investigation continues.
Wasn't he the same guy who said what water couldn't be pumped out was allowed to just subside on its own through seepage?
@@msr1116 Yes it was. He said the water that wasn't making it to the pit where the pumps were eventually seeped out somewhere. Gotta wonder what was going on under the building. Indicative of erosion in addition to the corrosion factor???
The fault belongs to the original engineer and architect!
You’re take on all of this is spot on man. Couldn’t agree more with you on all points. This whole thing fascinates me as well
thanks to give us your analyses
I am a regular person and I really appreciate you taking the time to break it down and come up with some theories and explain how and why it would happen if for this and for that so thank you.
Did you have a look-see on the
Florida International University pedestrian bridge collapse?? I did plenty of research on that and found numerous indicators that money 💰 was the big factor along with lack of professional responsibility and communication.
Excellent explanation. It makes perfect sense, even to someone without an engineering background.Even from the view of an untrained eye, this exactly the point where the collapse began.
Thank you 👍
Do you think this event will change the way engineering reports will be written going forward? Incorporate the use of stronger words such as Collapse, Loss of life, Imminent, etc?
Sould it be also written so it can be understood by someone with an IQ of 60 and illustrated with cartoon pictures? Should safe spaces be created in case someone has an anxiety atttack reading it? Should it have been delivered in sign language as well? Chris you sound like you must be involved in some aspect of public education. LOL
¡Naah!.......
¡In the end it's all about CA$$$H!
@@errorsofmodernism9715 still lost, D.B. ?
That works for you D.B.
Stick to your game plan..
stay away.
Change the word "exponential" to "increasing more and more and more and more, and EVEN MORE, and REALLY MORE"
Chris, i say yes. The absence of the word collapse allowed the HOA take its time and there are many "experts" who said the 18 report didn't imply "collapse".
These are so genuinely very informative and educational. Thank you very much. Respect.
Makes all the sense in the world, thank you.
I’m binge watching your channel. Loving the way you explain things. Very thorough and thoughtful explanations.
The google images were updated in January of this year, but if you look at the images from 5 years ago the building concrete looks almost new. So you can just see how fast it deteriorated
This is phenomenal. Just found your channel and subscribed. Great, responsible, clear, concise, expert information. Thank you! Keep ‘em comimg
I think your “adding more steel to this” is on the money. The detail you showed of the “work to be done” image to my thinking had very little horizontal binding reinforcing. It pretty obvious that there was no real design safety factor in this building.
I just have a goofball DIY channel and even I felt compelled to make a video on this a couple days ago. The amount of professional stupidity surrounding this incident is at a level where you average DIY guy is left shaking his head. This absolutely never should have happened. Was 100% preventable and 1000% tragic. I appreciate your content on this subject and think you've done a phenomenal job of stating the facts and not making assumptions. Great channel man.
There are Engineers who get paid to tell it like it is and there are Engineers who get paid to tell it like the person that pays!!!!
I think there are some spin doctors at work and that CNN interview was definitely an example of that. Minimize, mitigate, and point that finger.
@@spammy1982 This is Miami, there are court cases that you can look up that describe this exact activity.
There's some out there who believe "moar regulationz" will fix the problem. The existing ones didn't work for the exact reason you just explained. This happens with nearly every and any safety regulation out there. I live in the state of VA which has mandatory vehicle safety inspections, and literally any gas station gives them out for 40 bucks a pop.
yup, mostlikely the TV was trying to push the agenda... trying to make owner get away with it
As stated in previous comments, exponential is a solid mathematical term, which is taught in high school or earlier. There is no gray area to interpret this word. "Exponentially" is an alarming word to use in this case.
It doesn't take much to Google "timely manner." Timely manner means "done quickly," but may be interpreted differently by some people who don't bother to look up something that isn't clear to them.
I am very grateful to you for this series of videos on the Champlain Tower collapse. I find the news about loss and grief horrifying and thus have shifted a bit more to the technical/engineering/potential causes aspect of this sad event. You are fact-based -- even when you speculate: you postulate potential causes as possibilities, you don't jump to conclusions, you correct anything you find you were off on in a previous video, and you give a board overview, with some specifics, that has "educated hypotheses" written all over it. As with any investigation or research project there are initial signs or clues -- and I find you do an EXCELLENT presentation with your videos. THANK YOU.