1. Respect for the commitment to saying the full name over & over 😂 2. Seeing that it seems like MVP made the Essential discs makes me wonder if MVP is as innocent as they’re acting like they are 🤔
My take before watching... I haven't thrown the Simon Line balance, but I own an Essential Balance, and it flies like what they said they wanted the SL one to fly like.
I'm just going to chime in and say the trade mark though maybe still pending at this point was still filed before the essential discs made their balance. so TM and name should go to mvp. Had essential discs made the disc before the TM was filed then i would say the other way.
Apparently first to sell matters more, though. I think it's BS because it allows the potential to monitor a competitor's filings and scoop them before approval is granted by selling something without bothering to file trademarks, but that's probably the side the law will ultimately come down on.
They've had a disc slotted between a Pyro and Reactor - the Matrix, and they've had it since 2016. I guess they wanted to do that slot as an Axiom disc for Simon?
Not that lab seconds are terrible, but this box is basically half-mistakes, a prototype, a glow driver, a catch disc, and a few new plastic types for old discs. I value my $130 and shelf-space a little bit more than this assortment, but I hope people enjoy them and/or they become a great collector's item one day.
@@skatterbug That's all fair and true. I just wish they wouldn't spin it like they're Santa dropping a package down the chimney for a low, low price or make us feel like we're going to miss the greatest event in disc golf history. But that's me being kinda basic, lol.
@@seymourglass26 for sure. The marketing machine is maddening at times. Discmania is the worst for it. Custom runs that you can never get a reasonably priced backup for.
Yeah the gyropalooza boxes looked real disappointing. Not a fan of r2 and certainly don’t want 3 catch discs and some crazy flippy fairways. I’ve tried a ton of mvp discs out, I do like some of their molds a ton but I’ve really narrowed it down to the glow proxy, glow hex, fission Timelapse and pyro as the only ones I’m gonna keep in the bag.
Same for I. There are so many discs that already do what the Balance will do/does that I’m not MVP fanboy enough to care much. Just pick another of the silly camera names and move on, like Hot Shoe, Bokeh, Fiche or Darkroom. I hope an agreement can be reached.
Regarding name: priority tends to go to earliest filing for the trademark if I'm remembering correctly. I'm expecting Essential may need to change their disc name. Logistically speaking, MVP also probably has more money and lawyers to brute force the issue too. That being said, the Essential Balance plastic looks cool and the flight looks like something I'd want to throw more...
There are several discs that have the same name that are PDGA approved and are made by different companies. Whether they are on the market at the same time is difficult to say. I.e. Disc mold: Apollo Manufacturers: Wham-O (approved 1997); Alfa Disc (approved 2021) Disc mold: Falcon Manufacturers: lightning discs (approved 1987); millennium discs (approved 2019) Disc mold: lockdown Manufacturers: Doomsday (approved 2023); Guru (approved 2021) Discs mold: Lex Manufacturers: UB Disc (approved 2014); Disc king (approved 2016) In short: it doesn't seem to matter to the PDGA too much if there are 2 discs with the same name from different companies.
The last two examples are particularly interesting, being two discs just two years removed (roughly) and somewhat recent. (Summary at bottom.) With a little research, I found that the Doomsday Lockdown is readily available (for under $10!) while the Guru Lockdown is only advertised as part of a starter set that isn't available, even on the Guru website. In fact, going further down the rabbit-hole, I noticed that under "Dealers" that Guru only lists Infinite Discs. When I went to Infinite, they didn't have anything even acknowledging Guru is real. It seems like that company may have built half a website and then lost their money before the discs even saw much of the market outside of Europe or even their home of Norway. For the Lex, sadly both seem to be defunct, though Infinite Discs still has a listing for the older UB Disc Lex while it doesn't have anything for Disc King. Some other stores do acknowledge as "out-of-stock" and I found at least one reddit user talking about the flight and feel. My Summation: It could be that you can reuse an old name if something goes out of production or a company closes, but I'd be interested in the letter-of-the-law, as you might say. I do think you shouldn't be able to hoard a name forever if you're not using it.
The name will go to MVP. Maybe it's unfortunate, but copyright law is weird. After seeing the post of the Axiom Simon Line Balance nobody is thinking of Essential Discs when the balance is mentioned. Another point to consider is that DG is so niche we're bound to see a lot of parallel thought.
Copies, not clones. A copy is similar and flies the same. A clone has the same exact wing shape. The MVP Vector was a true Roc clone, and the Balance is supposed to be (avoiding to Simon) a new version of the Vector.
![10 Best NEW DISCS Released in 2024 [imho]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VvMuN2O2p8I/mqdefault.jpg)
Love this. Love to see a comparison of rocs vs. pyros vs. balances, vs. those shapes!
this video was spectacular thanks for your hard work
The Essential Discs Balance is so good. Feels like a Buzzz but flies like a glow Reactor
Thanks for that Greg!
1. Respect for the commitment to saying the full name over & over 😂
2. Seeing that it seems like MVP made the Essential discs makes me wonder if MVP is as innocent as they’re acting like they are 🤔
I’d never heard of essential discs before this dispute. I have a gyro box on the way and can’t wait to test out the Simon line balance (prototype).
My take before watching... I haven't thrown the Simon Line balance, but I own an Essential Balance, and it flies like what they said they wanted the SL one to fly like.
I'm just going to chime in and say the trade mark though maybe still pending at this point was still filed before the essential discs made their balance. so TM and name should go to mvp. Had essential discs made the disc before the TM was filed then i would say the other way.
Apparently first to sell matters more, though. I think it's BS because it allows the potential to monitor a competitor's filings and scoop them before approval is granted by selling something without bothering to file trademarks, but that's probably the side the law will ultimately come down on.
Funny enough they made the “balance” already. The fission pyro is basically a straight flyer with fade.
They've had a disc slotted between a Pyro and Reactor - the Matrix, and they've had it since 2016. I guess they wanted to do that slot as an Axiom disc for Simon?
Not that lab seconds are terrible, but this box is basically half-mistakes, a prototype, a glow driver, a catch disc, and a few new plastic types for old discs. I value my $130 and shelf-space a little bit more than this assortment, but I hope people enjoy them and/or they become a great collector's item one day.
Manufacturers dress them up with stamps, but this is what mystery boxes are. A vehicle for moving stagnant inventory.
@@skatterbug That's all fair and true. I just wish they wouldn't spin it like they're Santa dropping a package down the chimney for a low, low price or make us feel like we're going to miss the greatest event in disc golf history.
But that's me being kinda basic, lol.
@@seymourglass26 for sure. The marketing machine is maddening at times. Discmania is the worst for it. Custom runs that you can never get a reasonably priced backup for.
Yeah the gyropalooza boxes looked real disappointing. Not a fan of r2 and certainly don’t want 3 catch discs and some crazy flippy fairways.
I’ve tried a ton of mvp discs out, I do like some of their molds a ton but I’ve really narrowed it down to the glow proxy, glow hex, fission Timelapse and pyro as the only ones I’m gonna keep in the bag.
Lmao I’ll take my 70 dollar mistake proton balance thanks very much paid for half my box right there
Idk im a sucker for the underdog, so Id like to see Essential come out on top and im more likely to buy their Balance because of that.
Same for I.
There are so many discs that already do what the Balance will do/does that I’m not MVP fanboy enough to care much.
Just pick another of the silly camera names and move on, like Hot Shoe, Bokeh, Fiche or Darkroom.
I hope an agreement can be reached.
So I guess "Zoom" is already taken, seeing as it's not on the list of prospective names? Anyone know that disc?
Regarding name: priority tends to go to earliest filing for the trademark if I'm remembering correctly. I'm expecting Essential may need to change their disc name. Logistically speaking, MVP also probably has more money and lawyers to brute force the issue too.
That being said, the Essential Balance plastic looks cool and the flight looks like something I'd want to throw more...
Just threw my balance for the first time today it’s more similar to a streamline runway than a pyro so just a bit more over stable
mild irony is if they're looking for a 5 5 0 2 .. they sell the gladius via remix .. it's a good disc with a lil bead lol
There are several discs that have the same name that are PDGA approved and are made by different companies. Whether they are on the market at the same time is difficult to say.
I.e.
Disc mold: Apollo
Manufacturers: Wham-O (approved 1997); Alfa Disc (approved 2021)
Disc mold: Falcon
Manufacturers: lightning discs (approved 1987); millennium discs (approved 2019)
Disc mold: lockdown
Manufacturers: Doomsday (approved 2023); Guru (approved 2021)
Discs mold: Lex
Manufacturers: UB Disc (approved 2014); Disc king (approved 2016)
In short: it doesn't seem to matter to the PDGA too much if there are 2 discs with the same name from different companies.
The last two examples are particularly interesting, being two discs just two years removed (roughly) and somewhat recent. (Summary at bottom.)
With a little research, I found that the Doomsday Lockdown is readily available (for under $10!) while the Guru Lockdown is only advertised as part of a starter set that isn't available, even on the Guru website. In fact, going further down the rabbit-hole, I noticed that under "Dealers" that Guru only lists Infinite Discs. When I went to Infinite, they didn't have anything even acknowledging Guru is real. It seems like that company may have built half a website and then lost their money before the discs even saw much of the market outside of Europe or even their home of Norway.
For the Lex, sadly both seem to be defunct, though Infinite Discs still has a listing for the older UB Disc Lex while it doesn't have anything for Disc King. Some other stores do acknowledge as "out-of-stock" and I found at least one reddit user talking about the flight and feel.
My Summation: It could be that you can reuse an old name if something goes out of production or a company closes, but I'd be interested in the letter-of-the-law, as you might say. I do think you shouldn't be able to hoard a name forever if you're not using it.
The name will go to MVP. Maybe it's unfortunate, but copyright law is weird. After seeing the post of the Axiom Simon Line Balance nobody is thinking of Essential Discs when the balance is mentioned. Another point to consider is that DG is so niche we're bound to see a lot of parallel thought.
Just waiting for Axiom to release the SimonLine PD clone
Considering how much he likes the Tesla, you might be waiting a while
Actually meet Larry and threw a few rounds with him nice guy
There all roc clones 😉
Copies, not clones. A copy is similar and flies the same. A clone has the same exact wing shape. The MVP Vector was a true Roc clone, and the Balance is supposed to be (avoiding to Simon) a new version of the Vector.
@MichaelSweet-nn5bg exact wing shape but does not fly the samm??