Helpful video. I think at about 6:00 you said after checking TDC at #1 cal., "turn the crank 360 º to get to TDC on #6..." but did you mean 180º? 360º takes you back to where you were (?). I want to check #3 and #6 rocker shaft bolts now..because of what you said about the shafts needing to be longer and honed for oiling the rocker assembly. Can I do that by just turning to TDC on those cylinders, remove to inspect, then tighten back to 45 ft-lbs... without removing the other bolts? Also, you did yours dry...what if everything is oiled....? Is it impossible to check for the .001-.002" clearances? These are hydraulic lifters, right? I'm also not sure what "pre-load" means...pressure?
@@robertchristensen7140 not quite. You have to remember that the camshaft turns at half the speed of the crankshaft. It takes two complete revolutions of the crankshaft to be back where you started. Lifter preload is how much the plunger is compressed in the hydraulic lifter when running. Solids lifters require valve lash (clearance) but hydraulic lifters have to have preload. But if they have too much preload it hangs the valves open and causes the valves to burn. Too little preload and the valve train will be noisy and the engine will not run properly because the valves aren’t opening like they should. I tell everyone to check the preload without soaking the lifters in oil because the plunger will compress easily. If the lifter is full of oil the plunger will not compress and makes it hard to set the preload. That’s why Ford had a tool that hooked onto the rocker arm and put a lot of leverage on the rocker arm which causes the lifter full of oil to compress and bleed down.
@@charlielawson2510 it’s not the travel of the lifter that matters. It’s how far the plunger inside the lifter is depressed. That’s what we are measuring. Hydraulic lifters have to have that preload (plunger depressed)
About 25 or 30 years ago I had to replace the rocker arm shaft on my 1970 Ford f100 with the 360 in it the engine only had around 400 thousand miles on it , I replaced it and kept driving it in 2004 the intake manifold gaskets started leaking on the ends of the block I parked it at my mom's house until I got paid to buy some RTV when I got back it was gone.
I wound up with two different length pushrods when I built my 390. I think my lengths were 9.475 and 9.450, 9 of one and 7 of the other to get all the lifters within .040-.060" of lifter preload. It's silent as hell, so it worked. Looks like your cam has a stock base circle to be able to use stock off the shelf length pushrods. I wish I had just bought an adjustable rocker arm set.
I agree that the adjustable set up is much better but the pushrods are $$$$$ and I've heard that the adjuster screws won't stay tight in the made in china rocker arms. Someone emailed the supplier about it and they told them to loctite them. Like everything else I had a nice original adjustable rocker arm set a few years ago and sold them because I thought I would never build an FE.
@@BlackLabGarage I haven't checked what the cup and ball pushrod sets go for, but I ordered my ball and ball set through smith brothers pushrods. If I remember right, it was about $180 for the custom set and arrived exactly as I specified within a week. Probably not a bad route to go if one needs the cup and ball pushrods for an FE. I bought the Jegs brand non adjustable stock replacement rockers. They seemed on par with my old worn out originals as far as how it was constructed. I suppose one could take a hammer to the threads on the adjusters lightly and loctite them if using them with a hydraulic cam. I've heard of people having some of the OEM rockers not holding adjustment also.
@@MattsRageFitGarage I've always heard nothing but good things about Smith Brothers pushrods. At one time you could get oversize adjustment screws from Ford for the rocker arms. That might be the way to go for the aftermarket rocker arms if a man could find them. That or just have a good machine shop make some of them.
Umm. I could be wrong about this but I don't think you measured the marks on the push rod correctly. You used the caliper to measure the distance BETWEEN the to marker lines. I think you should of measured between the top of one line and the top of the other line or the bottom of both would do the same. measuring between the two doesn't take into account the thickness of the marker line. This could throw you off by a lot. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thank you for your videos on FE engines they are very good!
I actually recommend using a thinner tip marker which I did use but I couldn’t get it to show up on camera very well. But measuring center to center or even the outside of the lines would have to be off more than .030-.040 to cause a significant change to the preload. I was shooting for .060 but according to Ford you can have more preload than that and still be ok.
@BlackLabGarage Hello ther Bud ! I had a friend rebuild my 1967 Fe 352 and he’s no longer around to ask if he ch caked the Preload and quite a few other questions have come up . With less than 20 hrs on the motor ! I’m note sure what would have caused sheered of rocker arm and shaft bent pushrod a collapsed valve spring and to top it all of a destroyed lifter all above my #8 cyleder. I’m forced to get into the repairs myself and I’m not a mechanic. It’s taken me a lot to finally comprehend the information you’ve given that’s supports my re istalation of all the above I’ve mentioned. But my greatest concern is that no matter who or what research I’ve done my Gut keeps telling me to slow down , that maybe facing bigger issues . If you have some time ide like to turn this into a success story and I request any guidance you can offer I hope this finds you healthy and well UDT-12
Yes I talk about that in my videos. I bought an old F-100 once that had a 360 in it that someone had replaced all of the rocker shaft bolts with regular bolts and it had ruined the whole valvetrain
Hey bud new sub ...was wondering do you only adjust the valves at rebuild time like I did with my bud..& 2nd question is I'm replacing my rocker arm shaft assembly cuz everythings new except that .. (so that being said can I just remove my old assembly & simply bolt up torque to specs the new one & call it good ? Or do I still have to adjust it all again.??🤔🤔 my manual 65 tbird 390 fe calls for 0.050-0.150 with lifter collapsed. But also makes it sound like if I DO NOT crank the engine over at all. ..I can simply install it ...doesn't specifically say those words but it is sayn something of that nature ...please help thanks my brother 🤠🤠✊✊
Yes, I checked the preload and adjusted using different length pushrods when I rebuilt it and that was it. Technically you should be able to just bolt the new rocker assembly down and go but with offshore manufacturing like it is now a days, and the since it has been ran for years and valves recede and stuff...just to be safe I would check the preload with the new rocker shaft assembly installed and adjust the preload with different length pushrods if needed hopefully that won't be needed but I would rather check it now than just put it together and burn a valve down the road because it had too much preload. Of course I'm assuming you have the non adjustable rocker arms.
Rhx buddy yes I have the exact engine & rockerarm shaft assembly as you.. so thank you. Shes pretty much a fresh rebuild not even 1k mikes im sure. But I let it sit in my garage got condensation in the engine water in oil... heard some clacking when I revved it from the front of engine .pulled the crap chrome albeit nice & shiny perfect on thee outside. . But they freakn rusted on the inside ... couldn't figure where all the rust all over the rockets came from till I flipped the valve covers over✊👍 thx for your last input. .takes a load off ( or should I say IT TAKES A PRELOAD OFF)😅😂 I'm gonna also take the intake off to make sure I get all the rust out.. do you think it got into my bottom half ... cus I plan on dropping the oil pan as well 🤦♂️🤦♂️ what a mess 😬🙄 thx again buddy .. last thing if u would ill need to pull my distributor as well so as long as I drop it back to its current position .. I should be fine correct. As long as I do not turn or rotate the engine correct 🤔🤔
I don't think the bottom end would be as bad rusty. They usually aren't. Yes as long as you don't turn the crankshaft then the distributor should drop right back in where it was.@@OGSHAKER2020
@@BlackLabGarage awesome my friend 😎😎 thanks my brother 🙏 🙏👍👍 last question 🤦♂️🤦♂️I'm probably gonna swap out the lifters..think I had comp cam lifters & cam...do I necessarily needa go with comp lifters...& is it better to stick with the same brand as a set🤔🤔 thank ya... I'm going at it as we speak
Comp doesn't make their lifters. They source them from someone else. So no you do not have to buy the same brand lifters as the camshaft. Now where you have to be careful is I have seen FE lifters with two different plunger cups inside of them which could change your preload.@@OGSHAKER2020
@@BlackLabGarage ever damned time somebody tries to tell you video maker something you try to shit on it like you know everything about everything I've forgotten more about fe engine than you'll know
@@paulpruitt2776 I never said it wasn’t a spacer and seal. I was just saying it also keeps the oil off the valve stems and redirects it to the oil returns
That's why I say don't soak them in oil like most people say to do. I know Ford offered the tool that hooked over the rocker arm and would let you compress the lifter after it was full of oil and pumped up but I haven't been able to find one for sale. I could make one but why bother when I can just use my hand if the lifters aren't pumped up?
@@BlackLabGarage doesn't matter if soaked or not. But it's important to have the plunger in the lifter free to watch for lifter preload. If you notice when reusing a good cam and lifters, that the lifter plunger can be stiff/ hard and compressed. It then is hard to check. Especially Ford roller lifters. Once they are "set " pumped up, they turn near solid. I've assembled an engine, using original used roller cam and lifters, they don't wear out. Positive stop rockers. Engine will not start, because lifters are not bleeding to set the valve on the seat. Same thing can happen with a used flat tappet. Sometimes the lifter will bleed if you manually turn the oil pump over. Rotate the engine. Do it again. Some will bleed. But not all of them.
Thanks
Thank You! Me and the pups greatly appreciate it!
Helpful video. I think at about 6:00 you said after checking TDC at #1 cal., "turn the crank 360 º to get to TDC on #6..." but did you mean 180º? 360º takes you back to where you were (?). I want to check #3 and #6 rocker shaft bolts now..because of what you said about the shafts needing to be longer and honed for oiling the rocker assembly. Can I do that by just turning to TDC on those cylinders, remove to inspect, then tighten back to 45 ft-lbs... without removing the other bolts? Also, you did yours dry...what if everything is oiled....? Is it impossible to check for the .001-.002" clearances? These are hydraulic lifters, right? I'm also not sure what "pre-load" means...pressure?
@@robertchristensen7140 not quite. You have to remember that the camshaft turns at half the speed of the crankshaft. It takes two complete revolutions of the crankshaft to be back where you started. Lifter preload is how much the plunger is compressed in the hydraulic lifter when running. Solids lifters require valve lash (clearance) but hydraulic lifters have to have preload. But if they have too much preload it hangs the valves open and causes the valves to burn. Too little preload and the valve train will be noisy and the engine will not run properly because the valves aren’t opening like they should. I tell everyone to check the preload without soaking the lifters in oil because the plunger will compress easily. If the lifter is full of oil the plunger will not compress and makes it hard to set the preload. That’s why Ford had a tool that hooked onto the rocker arm and put a lot of leverage on the rocker arm which causes the lifter full of oil to compress and bleed down.
Can you not find the total travel of the lifter and subtract the reading from Ford's way and arrive at a fairly precise preload?
@@charlielawson2510 it’s not the travel of the lifter that matters. It’s how far the plunger inside the lifter is depressed. That’s what we are measuring. Hydraulic lifters have to have that preload (plunger depressed)
About 25 or 30 years ago I had to replace the rocker arm shaft on my 1970 Ford f100 with the 360 in it the engine only had around 400 thousand miles on it , I replaced it and kept driving it in 2004 the intake manifold gaskets started leaking on the ends of the block I parked it at my mom's house until I got paid to buy some RTV when I got back it was gone.
@@danieljonhson6367 the whole truck was gone?
I wound up with two different length pushrods when I built my 390. I think my lengths were 9.475 and 9.450, 9 of one and 7 of the other to get all the lifters within .040-.060" of lifter preload. It's silent as hell, so it worked. Looks like your cam has a stock base circle to be able to use stock off the shelf length pushrods. I wish I had just bought an adjustable rocker arm set.
I agree that the adjustable set up is much better but the pushrods are $$$$$ and I've heard that the adjuster screws won't stay tight in the made in china rocker arms. Someone emailed the supplier about it and they told them to loctite them. Like everything else I had a nice original adjustable rocker arm set a few years ago and sold them because I thought I would never build an FE.
@@BlackLabGarage I haven't checked what the cup and ball pushrod sets go for, but I ordered my ball and ball set through smith brothers pushrods. If I remember right, it was about $180 for the custom set and arrived exactly as I specified within a week. Probably not a bad route to go if one needs the cup and ball pushrods for an FE. I bought the Jegs brand non adjustable stock replacement rockers. They seemed on par with my old worn out originals as far as how it was constructed. I suppose one could take a hammer to the threads on the adjusters lightly and loctite them if using them with a hydraulic cam. I've heard of people having some of the OEM rockers not holding adjustment also.
@@MattsRageFitGarage I've always heard nothing but good things about Smith Brothers pushrods. At one time you could get oversize adjustment screws from Ford for the rocker arms. That might be the way to go for the aftermarket rocker arms if a man could find them. That or just have a good machine shop make some of them.
@bsagreg That makes sense.
Umm. I could be wrong about this but I don't think you measured the marks on the push rod correctly. You used the caliper to measure the distance BETWEEN the to marker lines. I think you should of measured between the top of one line and the top of the other line or the bottom of both would do the same. measuring between the two doesn't take into account the thickness of the marker line. This could throw you off by a lot. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thank you for your videos on FE engines they are very good!
I actually recommend using a thinner tip marker which I did use but I couldn’t get it to show up on camera very well. But measuring center to center or even the outside of the lines would have to be off more than .030-.040 to cause a significant change to the preload. I was shooting for .060 but according to Ford you can have more preload than that and still be ok.
@BlackLabGarage Hello ther Bud ! I had a friend rebuild my 1967 Fe 352 and he’s no longer around to ask if he ch caked the Preload and quite a few other questions have come up . With less than 20 hrs on the motor ! I’m note sure what would have caused sheered of rocker arm and shaft bent pushrod a collapsed valve spring and to top it all of a destroyed lifter all above my #8 cyleder. I’m forced to get into the repairs myself and I’m not a mechanic. It’s taken me a lot to finally comprehend the information you’ve given that’s supports my re istalation of all the above I’ve mentioned. But my greatest concern is that no matter who or what research I’ve done my Gut keeps telling me to slow down , that maybe facing bigger issues .
If you have some time ide like to turn this into a success story and I request any guidance you can offer
I hope this finds you healthy and well
UDT-12
Hi, I'm wondering what size of the filegates you use? Sorry im from Sweden and have bad English
Thats just a standard feeler gauge set and I stack them together to get the right thickness that I need. That set I use goes from .008 to .026
Number three and number six the neck down bolt very important 2:56
Yes I talk about that in my videos. I bought an old F-100 once that had a 360 in it that someone had replaced all of the rocker shaft bolts with regular bolts and it had ruined the whole valvetrain
Thanks for the info.
You're welcome!
Hey bud new sub ...was wondering do you only adjust the valves at rebuild time like I did with my bud..& 2nd question is I'm replacing my rocker arm shaft assembly cuz everythings new except that .. (so that being said can I just remove my old assembly & simply bolt up torque to specs the new one & call it good ? Or do I still have to adjust it all again.??🤔🤔 my manual 65 tbird 390 fe calls for 0.050-0.150 with lifter collapsed. But also makes it sound like if I DO NOT crank the engine over at all. ..I can simply install it ...doesn't specifically say those words but it is sayn something of that nature ...please help thanks my brother 🤠🤠✊✊
Yes, I checked the preload and adjusted using different length pushrods when I rebuilt it and that was it. Technically you should be able to just bolt the new rocker assembly down and go but with offshore manufacturing like it is now a days, and the since it has been ran for years and valves recede and stuff...just to be safe I would check the preload with the new rocker shaft assembly installed and adjust the preload with different length pushrods if needed hopefully that won't be needed but I would rather check it now than just put it together and burn a valve down the road because it had too much preload. Of course I'm assuming you have the non adjustable rocker arms.
Rhx buddy yes I have the exact engine & rockerarm shaft assembly as you.. so thank you. Shes pretty much a fresh rebuild not even 1k mikes im sure. But I let it sit in my garage got condensation in the engine water in oil... heard some clacking when I revved it from the front of engine .pulled the crap chrome albeit nice & shiny perfect on thee outside. . But they freakn rusted on the inside ... couldn't figure where all the rust all over the rockets came from till I flipped the valve covers over✊👍 thx for your last input. .takes a load off ( or should I say IT TAKES A PRELOAD OFF)😅😂 I'm gonna also take the intake off to make sure I get all the rust out.. do you think it got into my bottom half ... cus I plan on dropping the oil pan as well 🤦♂️🤦♂️ what a mess 😬🙄 thx again buddy .. last thing if u would ill need to pull my distributor as well so as long as I drop it back to its current position .. I should be fine correct. As long as I do not turn or rotate the engine correct 🤔🤔
I don't think the bottom end would be as bad rusty. They usually aren't. Yes as long as you don't turn the crankshaft then the distributor should drop right back in where it was.@@OGSHAKER2020
@@BlackLabGarage awesome my friend 😎😎 thanks my brother 🙏 🙏👍👍 last question 🤦♂️🤦♂️I'm probably gonna swap out the lifters..think I had comp cam lifters & cam...do I necessarily needa go with comp lifters...& is it better to stick with the same brand as a set🤔🤔 thank ya... I'm going at it as we speak
Comp doesn't make their lifters. They source them from someone else. So no you do not have to buy the same brand lifters as the camshaft. Now where you have to be careful is I have seen FE lifters with two different plunger cups inside of them which could change your preload.@@OGSHAKER2020
If u that worried bout it, just get the adjustable rockers.
PRECISION OIL PUMPS
I'm not that worried about it but it is a better set up. Adjustable rockers are a better set up on any engine regardless of the manufacturer.
That thing ford called oil drip rail well its not exactly accurate its a little softer than the iron parts its rocker stands spacer and seal
@@paulpruitt2776 it helps keep the oil off of the valve stems and redirects it to the oil returns
@@BlackLabGarage ever damned time somebody tries to tell you video maker something you try to shit on it like you know everything about everything I've forgotten more about fe engine than you'll know
@@paulpruitt2776 I never said it wasn’t a spacer and seal. I was just saying it also keeps the oil off the valve stems and redirects it to the oil returns
When you use new lifters it's easy.
That's why I say don't soak them in oil like most people say to do. I know Ford offered the tool that hooked over the rocker arm and would let you compress the lifter after it was full of oil and pumped up but I haven't been able to find one for sale. I could make one but why bother when I can just use my hand if the lifters aren't pumped up?
@@BlackLabGarage doesn't matter if soaked or not.
But it's important to have the plunger in the lifter free to watch for lifter preload.
If you notice when reusing a good cam and lifters, that the lifter plunger can be stiff/ hard and compressed.
It then is hard to check.
Especially Ford roller lifters. Once they are "set " pumped up, they turn near solid.
I've assembled an engine, using original used roller cam and lifters, they don't wear out. Positive stop rockers.
Engine will not start, because lifters are not bleeding to set the valve on the seat.
Same thing can happen with a used flat tappet.
Sometimes the lifter will bleed if you manually turn the oil pump over. Rotate the engine. Do it again. Some will bleed. But not all of them.
@@jesse75 That's why I say don't soak them because they fill up with oil and you can't compress the plunger.
Unreliable process...too much measurement repeatability issues...measure preload at lifter
I guess you need to take that up with Ford since that is their method that I showed first.