what a King. I was waiting for him to step out of the way so I could screenshot stuff and he says "let me step out of the way so you can screenshot this".
Chris isn't even a game dev himself and he knows you shouldn't try to make your first game your magnum opus! Indie devs, listen to this man! Make small games first!!!
So at @43:13 I've been hearing that word "Social proof" a lot recently when it comes to marketing. It seems true that even dedicated review sites don't know if a new game is going to be hot or not. So it is a chicken or egg situation that you need have a lot engagement to trade up for more engagement. I do like the idea that you mentioned also about packaging your game with other stuff like tutorials, or services to help get recognized. Also don't make your dream game your first game, that makes more sense due to what you've mentioned before. Still I wish I could find a video specifically detailing how social proof works.
Watching this now - might be best to just cut the first 16 minutes in TH-cam studio :) very easy and people won't have to skip ahead in case they miss the description.
@@GgdaOrganic I would do the same for the last 20 minutes as well... It makes the video unnecessarily long.. 1 hour video looks less daunting than a 1:30 h long video.
The story about the investors asking how they can just pay money to get on the front page of Steam makes me actually appreciate the Steam algo in that case. What a nightmare it could be if it were just cluttered with shitty well funded mobile games.
51:24 I agree, I started my dream game, and its MASSIVE in detail, and I realized I cannot push this game as magnum opus without a few practice runs first, I know other markets are different, but I am pushing out my first mobile game and then a few small steam games just to get comfortable with the market.
So, what I am hearing is if your game isn't pretty but has deep gameplay don't post on twitter, just spend more time making a cool demo and just focus on getting a fun demo out as soon as possible.
Yeah, it's make or break. Most people underestimate that games are made by humans and not every human is a perfect marketing machine and will just swallow his failures. You gotta stay strong when the waves come crushing in (and be accountable for your work).
Absolutely agree. We always encourage people to create what they are driven to create, even beyond what the algorithms suggest. However, if a dev wants to create more than one game, and do it in a way that sustains them emotionally and financially, we have to broaden our perspective.
The festivals discussed here are generally online events like the Steam Next Fest. We still recommend showing your game at in-person conferences like DreamHack and Momocon as well. Not only do those give you exposure, but you get great first-hand feedback
Odd. My first game was my dream game and it was successful. My 2nd game was the other half of my dream game... it was successful. Now I am on my 3rd game and have my 4th and 5th setup. I did have a publisher though for the first 2. Now I am going at it alone. Your videos really helped me realize the solo path. I also paid attention to what my publisher did.
@@GgdaOrganic WarPlan and WarPlan Pacific.... I didn't do anything. The publisher did. They basically followed the same steps. It was only 3-4 months pre-release. The did one game play video. Also screen shots. What I think made it a success. #1 not in a common field.... WW2 strategy game. #2 not in a common format..... Most games in this field are 1 hex, 1 unit, 1 click, 1 attack. I made my games multi-hex attack, stacking, and taking many principles from board games that were the most popular of the time. #3 good UI and UX... my wife has 2 masters in UX and instructional design. She taught me a lot about UX. I took a moderately complex game and made it easy to navigate. #4 deep strategy.... at first players complained, this was too hard that was too hard. But over time they tried different things and realized it isn't a min-max game or an optimizing game. It is a deep strategy game where strategic and operational thinking were required. Long term planning was required. The bad. #1 Not great graphics. #2 clumsy code that needed a lot of debuging after the fact as I had not coded in 25 years. I only try and make games are NOT like everyone else. But my focus is strategy hex games with a board game feel hiding the complexity in the code allowing players to think more and have more fun with an easy UI interface. I certainly understand why there are so many clones out there. It is much easier to make a 1 unit per hex, 1 click game. My next game is a fantasy strategy lite 4x, lite RPG, all deep strategy. The store should be up any day after Steam approval. So far the beta testers like it. The see the depth of the game. If you take two things from my experience is to do something others have not done and think about how to make players think beyond min-maxing the game. Love your stuff. Absolutely love it. I loved the piece you did on the user testing. My wife 100% approved of that video. Thought it was excellent. I changed my Steam page and images.
@@wolfpox Success is different for different people. For me I define success by making games that create an income that I can support myself. But my bar was set higher than most. I had a lot of experience with wargames and role playing games over many years so I had a unique perspective since the 1980s. I already knew how to code from my youth, although I don't consider myself an amazing coder. My wife taught me application design and how to use photoshop. I did a lot of research on my all 3 of my games to find a niche that was profitable. I also enjoy all parts of game design: graphics, sound editing, design, UI, and computer opponents. I am also good with people. From much of my research I discovered quite a few devs don't like one part or another. I sort of am a unicorn. I can do a lot myself. So my bar was pretty high because I did a mountain of work before I even started making the first one. Luckily I never read the article that 80% of developers fail to make a living at it. I think my wife's teachings was 50% of my success. But if I was 18 with no money, living at home, and no experience... I'd say success is making a game people like playing and making a just enough money to cover my costs. It would be a learning experience.
I always find it troubling some aspects with the argument of "release a small shitty game first that takes 6 months or less only" meanwhile many indie developers have found success with ambitious/complex first projects, that took time and money without any prior game-launch experience or even game dev exp. (Ex, CupHead, DISCO ELYSIUM, CHOO CHOO CHARLES, Shovel Knight, TheVagrant, Nine Years of Shadows, Bloody Spell, Bright Memory, Signalis, Lobotomy Corporation, and I am sure I am missing more ) There's a difference between creating your dream game *first* vs making a good first game. The idea of a "small" game that takes six months already feels like a setup for failure, because, experience?. I'm not entirely against this idea, but it often comes across as too absolute when it should really be considered on a case-by-case basis.
I interpret it more so as "don't make your first game your passion project if you're a complete beginner", because a lot of people don't even know what their strengths are when they get into game dev. A lot of the games you've listed have developers who have experience in either art, programming or storytelling, or even a combination of these aspects. Also, in the case of Choo Choo Charles, Two Star had already released 4 games prior.
26:54 I need one clarification Chris! When you said Multiplayer games did you mean ANY non-singleplayer game - that would include Lethal Company, Minecraft, Terraria, Stardew Valley, etc. - or did you mean games with matchmaking (mostly preeminent in competitive multiplayer games) - that would include League of Legends, CoD, Team Fortress, Valorant - ?
Why would early access be harder? Is it because there's no email being sent? I feel like with EA you'd do all the steps as before, but just launch it as EA before it's totally finished. If you have all the wishlists already it feels like it wouldn't make much of a difference.
My ladder is made of crap. All the reachable rungs are rotten and vanished into dust. Everyday I try to jump to reach the other ones, but I can't jump higher than my maximum. And I can't afford buying a new ladder
Well, I had a viral tiktok account about my game with millions of views. So my game has a magic according to your opinion. My game was sold 5800 in 3 years. Your "magic" s u ks, bro..
What! If you make it to thr front its roughly 300k but even if you dont is still six figures????? Bro i make 200 a month even kinda crappy release would be life changing!
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
what a King. I was waiting for him to step out of the way so I could screenshot stuff and he says "let me step out of the way so you can screenshot this".
I can't get enough of Chris.
Do you think we should have him back? What should he speak on next?
How to keep promoting a game post-launch @@GgdaOrganic
@@PorkotylerClips Good idea!
Get a room
@@PherPhur I'm game
Chris is the only person in the world that I can watch for thousands of hours without getting bored
And learn something new everytime
This talk was extremely refreshing to see.
Thanks so much!
Great job Chris. One of the most enjoyable presentations I've listened to. Great energy.
Mega-useful, thanks! Learned so much useful stuff in this one video.
Good luck with your game development
brb, pivoting my five year plan to becoming a full time horse game dev
Apparently you'll get an audience that won't say neigh to your games then!
Unironically, do a small dumb horse game with a demo and let us know
Chris isn't even a game dev himself and he knows you shouldn't try to make your first game your magnum opus! Indie devs, listen to this man! Make small games first!!!
Great advice. Do something you know you can accomplish before you try to make your dream game
Had no idea
28:27 That sound 💀
Well thank you! Please keep continue to talk with Chris Zukowski
So at @43:13 I've been hearing that word "Social proof" a lot recently when it comes to marketing.
It seems true that even dedicated review sites don't know if a new game is going to be hot or not.
So it is a chicken or egg situation that you need have a lot engagement to trade up for more engagement.
I do like the idea that you mentioned also about packaging your game with other stuff like tutorials, or services to help get recognized.
Also don't make your dream game your first game, that makes more sense due to what you've mentioned before. Still I wish I could find a video specifically detailing how social proof works.
this video autoplayed in the background as i was doing some other stuff, but damn have i stumbled upon some diamonds
this man just gives literal actual gold. its unbelievable
Agreed
alright ! time to make my -dream- horse game
Good Chris is healthy again. Thanks so much.
This is a great video. If I become successful a year from now, I'm crediting this video.
Let us know!
Watching this now - might be best to just cut the first 16 minutes in TH-cam studio :) very easy and people won't have to skip ahead in case they miss the description.
Done. The TH-cam studio editor is not the best for fine editing, but let us know what you think.
@@GgdaOrganic I would do the same for the last 20 minutes as well... It makes the video unnecessarily long.. 1 hour video looks less daunting than a 1:30 h long video.
@@KarmBDV22 Thanks for the suggestion. Let us know what you think of the new changes
Wow, that was fast! Thank you so much!
Amazing content
Amazing video. Thanks Chris and GGDA.
Oooof. COVID kicked you out of GDC? Sorry for the lost opportunity. Your content is fantastic and I hope you're feeling well!
THIS IS GOLD
The story about the investors asking how they can just pay money to get on the front page of Steam makes me actually appreciate the Steam algo in that case. What a nightmare it could be if it were just cluttered with shitty well funded mobile games.
51:24 I agree, I started my dream game, and its MASSIVE in detail, and I realized I cannot push this game as magnum opus without a few practice runs first, I know other markets are different, but I am pushing out my first mobile game and then a few small steam games just to get comfortable with the market.
Smart move! Good luck
Time to put your horse in the race
29:56 - If I earned $150,000
I would be very happy.
In my country, that's well over Half a Million Dollars :)
Woah, Which country do you live in?
Be good if you covered suggestions about staying at the top of the steam wish lists, sales conversions, new features, extending the long tail, etc?
Usually, I play GDC presentations in the background. This one was too interesting for that.
And it's not a GDC presentation :) We hope you enjoy the GGDA ones in the fore or background
This is a very good lecture
Chris: There's no secret thing! It's all about having a great game!
Also chris: Psst... psst... make a horse game kiddo, just trust me... go!
As someone who loves horse games. 100%, there's money to be made with a good horse game.
Are you also excited for that Khiimori horse game coming in September? 😊
Amazing vid super informational. I love u Chris.
Very good, thank you! Regarding what you said, this means that you can join Steam Seasonal Sales (like summer sales) with just a demo?
No. A sale is not a festival. It has to be themed events like Steam Puzzle Fest
What pages do you recommend to see data on games released on Steam, data such as the number of wish lists or other things?
Thanks for your video !
So, what I am hearing is if your game isn't pretty but has deep gameplay don't post on twitter, just spend more time making a cool demo and just focus on getting a fun demo out as soon as possible.
31:00 How do you launch your demo? As a free game on Steam and then promote or Itch? Or do you mean only to streamers?
Me too, I would like to know also 😂
Gautoz is a french streamer who does "VideoGame press" on twitch/yt
Yeah, it's make or break. Most people underestimate that games are made by humans and not every human is a perfect marketing machine and will just swallow his failures. You gotta stay strong when the waves come crushing in (and be accountable for your work).
Absolutely agree. We always encourage people to create what they are driven to create, even beyond what the algorithms suggest. However, if a dev wants to create more than one game, and do it in a way that sustains them emotionally and financially, we have to broaden our perspective.
@@GgdaOrganic
I will do my absolute best.
If I stay alive, I will help others with my experience/knowledge. We should work together.
16:09 video start
16:09 might be a better start point
@@GgdaOrganic appreciated!
Bracing myself for horror horse games coming soon
Are festivals the same as conferences in this context? Or like online festivals of some kind? I'm new to this and not sure.
The festivals discussed here are generally online events like the Steam Next Fest. We still recommend showing your game at in-person conferences like DreamHack and Momocon as well. Not only do those give you exposure, but you get great first-hand feedback
Odd. My first game was my dream game and it was successful. My 2nd game was the other half of my dream game... it was successful. Now I am on my 3rd game and have my 4th and 5th setup. I did have a publisher though for the first 2. Now I am going at it alone. Your videos really helped me realize the solo path. I also paid attention to what my publisher did.
Feel free to mention the games here, if you can also say what steps you think helped them succeed
@@GgdaOrganic WarPlan and WarPlan Pacific.... I didn't do anything. The publisher did. They basically followed the same steps. It was only 3-4 months pre-release. The did one game play video. Also screen shots.
What I think made it a success.
#1 not in a common field.... WW2 strategy game.
#2 not in a common format..... Most games in this field are 1 hex, 1 unit, 1 click, 1 attack. I made my games multi-hex attack, stacking, and taking many principles from board games that were the most popular of the time.
#3 good UI and UX... my wife has 2 masters in UX and instructional design. She taught me a lot about UX. I took a moderately complex game and made it easy to navigate.
#4 deep strategy.... at first players complained, this was too hard that was too hard. But over time they tried different things and realized it isn't a min-max game or an optimizing game. It is a deep strategy game where strategic and operational thinking were required. Long term planning was required.
The bad.
#1 Not great graphics.
#2 clumsy code that needed a lot of debuging after the fact as I had not coded in 25 years.
I only try and make games are NOT like everyone else. But my focus is strategy hex games with a board game feel hiding the complexity in the code allowing players to think more and have more fun with an easy UI interface.
I certainly understand why there are so many clones out there. It is much easier to make a 1 unit per hex, 1 click game.
My next game is a fantasy strategy lite 4x, lite RPG, all deep strategy. The store should be up any day after Steam approval. So far the beta testers like it. The see the depth of the game.
If you take two things from my experience is to do something others have not done and think about how to make players think beyond min-maxing the game.
Love your stuff. Absolutely love it. I loved the piece you did on the user testing. My wife 100% approved of that video. Thought it was excellent. I changed my Steam page and images.
I'm curious, how do you define successful?
@@GgdaOrganic WarPlan, WarPlan Pacific, and now Kingdom, Dungeon, and Hero which has been a larger success so far than the other 2.
@@wolfpox Success is different for different people.
For me I define success by making games that create an income that I can support myself. But my bar was set higher than most. I had a lot of experience with wargames and role playing games over many years so I had a unique perspective since the 1980s.
I already knew how to code from my youth, although I don't consider myself an amazing coder.
My wife taught me application design and how to use photoshop.
I did a lot of research on my all 3 of my games to find a niche that was profitable.
I also enjoy all parts of game design: graphics, sound editing, design, UI, and computer opponents. I am also good with people. From much of my research I discovered quite a few devs don't like one part or another. I sort of am a unicorn. I can do a lot myself.
So my bar was pretty high because I did a mountain of work before I even started making the first one.
Luckily I never read the article that 80% of developers fail to make a living at it. I think my wife's teachings was 50% of my success.
But if I was 18 with no money, living at home, and no experience... I'd say success is making a game people like playing and making a just enough money to cover my costs. It would be a learning experience.
Why does Steam hate Tower Defense?
I am starting out with one, because it feels like such a good first game [genre].
Definitely create the game you can
What’s an alternative to a demo for a multiplayer game. (I understand it’s hard lol) We we’re thinking a betas combined with Twitch pushes.
You can launch a multiplayer demo with a time or turn limit so players can try it without getting the full experience
19:34 - How does he know...??? GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!
I always find it troubling some aspects with the argument of "release a small shitty game first that takes 6 months or less only" meanwhile many indie developers have found success with ambitious/complex first projects, that took time and money without any prior game-launch experience or even game dev exp. (Ex, CupHead, DISCO ELYSIUM, CHOO CHOO CHARLES, Shovel Knight, TheVagrant, Nine Years of Shadows, Bloody Spell, Bright Memory, Signalis, Lobotomy Corporation, and I am sure I am missing more )
There's a difference between creating your dream game *first* vs making a good first game. The idea of a "small" game that takes six months already feels like a setup for failure, because, experience?. I'm not entirely against this idea, but it often comes across as too absolute when it should really be considered on a case-by-case basis.
I interpret it more so as "don't make your first game your passion project if you're a complete beginner", because a lot of people don't even know what their strengths are when they get into game dev. A lot of the games you've listed have developers who have experience in either art, programming or storytelling, or even a combination of these aspects.
Also, in the case of Choo Choo Charles, Two Star had already released 4 games prior.
Hi Doug DeMuro i didnt know you're a gamer now!
26:54 I need one clarification Chris! When you said Multiplayer games did you mean ANY non-singleplayer game - that would include Lethal Company, Minecraft, Terraria, Stardew Valley, etc. - or did you mean games with matchmaking (mostly preeminent in competitive multiplayer games) - that would include League of Legends, CoD, Team Fortress, Valorant - ?
Why don't the universal platform work out ??
Why would early access be harder? Is it because there's no email being sent? I feel like with EA you'd do all the steps as before, but just launch it as EA before it's totally finished. If you have all the wishlists already it feels like it wouldn't make much of a difference.
50 minutes median game time? I thought a demo should be 30 mins top, or do you mean they keep coming back to play it?
He said make a horse game..I've been making a horse game for 3 years! Lol
What is Steam's "daily Deal" exactly?
How about making free to play as an indie? Im kinda opposed to charging for games but im not insane or rich enough to make them actually free
My ladder is made of crap. All the reachable rungs are rotten and vanished into dust. Everyday I try to jump to reach the other ones, but I can't jump higher than my maximum. And I can't afford buying a new ladder
Send me a link to your demo, I don't stream but I have 140k followers on TikTok
@@wolfpox I don' t even have a tiktok account
Well, I had a viral tiktok account about my game with millions of views. So my game has a magic according to your opinion.
My game was sold 5800 in 3 years. Your "magic" s u ks, bro..
Lol, ”…..and you do this…..until you wanna Die….then launch.”
What! If you make it to thr front its roughly 300k but even if you dont is still six figures????? Bro i make 200 a month even kinda crappy release would be life changing!
steams cut, potential engine cuts, also if you have a publisher big cut, if theres multiple people working on your team, taxes.
Step 1: Have a viral game.
Blasphemous is a metroidvania. That's why it got famous.