Edging v Rotation - Steeper and Narrower
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- When skiing steep slopes we need to be sure about the mix that we use between edging the skis and rotating the skis.
How to ski a narrower corridor first using rotation, then start adding in more edge.
Add the edges earlier or later to vary the width of corridor that you ski.
Great video. I'm an intermediate skier and this is exactly what I am struggling to do. Good simple explanation. Thanks!
Thank you! Let us know how you get on.
Thing is, he didn't teach you How to do it, he just showed you what it will look like when I teach you how to do it.
Lots of ideas and techniques in a really short space of time, great video!
Thanks!
One of the best explanations of what to do, but needs explanation of what allows you to make those moves and do so easily. 1) The inside ski is the active ski. It provides the opposing force to allow both body separation an turning power to the outside ski. 2) skiers need to understand that edging and steering are related, as both activities involve the femur rotating in the hip socket. 3) Lateral body position is crucial throughout each turn/pivot. Biasing the mass more downhill thru each maneuver unlocks the feet, allowing for skidding or edging at will- but without body movement. Using these concepts will automatically create upper and lower body separation and position the skier to make instantaneous initiations and complete control in any condition.
Your opening statement was 100% correct but then it went downhill after that.
1. That didn't teach anything, make sense and wasn't correct to begin with.
2. That just describes what happens when you do the things you are supposed to do which Nobody Teaches.
3. That didn't teach how to do anything. You mean Face Down Hill? Lean your upper body down hill? How does that "Unlock" your feet?
How long have you been teaching? 40 Years? So, what Do you teach because you didn't teach anything here or in any of your other comments.
@@JB91710 Trolling again are you? Yes. Nothing worthwhile too contribute as usual.
Great video. Concise and informative! The different techniques are very well explained.
Thanks
One of the better videos I've seen. Clear, concise and helpful.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thing is, he didn't teach you How to do it and neither do you. This just told you to Do IT!
Great video Here in New Hampshire, bulk of our trails are narrow and can be icy 👍🍺
Good video, nice simple explanation, great demos.
Very good tip about not edging during the turn but only when they are parallel down the slope. Edging too quickly in steep or difficult terrain is uncomfortable for us intermediates!
i don't even know what is edging... i will search it
That's why you have to practice traversing various degree slopes. Balance on the arch/edge of your downhill ski as you do. Then when you make a turn on a steep slope, your muscles will be familiar with the feeling.
Ski Patrol uses this going straight down technique, called falling leaf, while controlling a rescue toboggan down the mountain.
This was All Okay for survival if you accidentally go down a trail that is beyond your capability or comfort level. Here are some points that where not made but are critical for getting down comfortably.
1. You MUST keep your upper body facing down the hill through all of these turns. You can't allow your mind to think about turning or you will steer with your shoulders which will put you too much on your uphill ski and your downhill ski will break away. Ever end up going backwards down a slope, bent over at the waste, while digging your fingers into the snow?
2. When you keep your upper body facing down the hill you are creating a Torsion Bar affect when your skis are across the hill. When you release your edges for the next turn, your twisted body will try to unwind your lower body.
3. Lean your upper body down the hill. You have to be aggressive. You have to think Go, Go, Go! If you are timid you will go straight down the hill or turn your body and if that is your way you handle it, you might want to make Sure you stay away from the steeps.
4. The single most important thing in skiing is your ability to balance on one arch/edge which requires you to lean your hip into the hill and your shoulders down the hill. Practice this a lot by traversing on a slope that is wide and there aren't many skiers. The downhill skiers have the right of Way over traversers so look uphill before you go.
Now, how do you actually Ski a steeper trail? You have to think of Three things.
1. Your skis know how to turn and will turn technically correct if you do what it needs. Even on very steep slopes. It takes a aggressive commitment on your part.
2. You have to be Moving forward across the hill as you step from your downhill to uphill foot. You Have to literally throw your upper body down the hill AND back into the fall line you just crossed to get it into a position where your upper body, which always includes your hips, are farther down the hill than your skis. Your hips pull your legs down the hill which rolls that uphill foot over onto the arch/edge and the ski will turn quickly around to catch you. NO HARB, we do not Tip our knees!!!
Aggressiveness is the key so practice this on less steep slopes so you are confident it will work before hitting the steeps. Being prepared is always the best defense.
It is the first and hope last time I hear that uphill skiers have the right of the way against traversers. The only rule is downhill riders have the right of the way. It does not mean though that one should traverse without attention. Look uphill frequently at all times.
@@AndreanoCelentano You follow the Rules of the Road and it covers everything.
JB is right on about throwing your body down fall line. Think of diving into a pool head first.
Re: JB’s point #2 regarding “torsion bar“ - is anyone here old enough to remember the old Chubby Checker song: “Do the twist“? If so, that is the motion. If not, I’m sure that TH-cam has plenty of videos showing that Chubby Checker move.
Furthermore, that is another reason why, particularly when skiing the steeps, that you want to keep your hands/arms out, particularly forward, which produces a higher turning moment, enabling you to rotate your skis more easily.
@@wildbill805 Yes but, no. In the Twist, you are twisting your upper body one way while you stand on the balls of your feet and twist your lower body the other way. In skiing that would be what we called Counter Rotating. With the Torsion Bar analogy, the skier resists the twisting of the lower body by the skis turning, by keeping the upper body facing down the hill especially when they want to start a new turn. That is what winds up the Torsion Bar. The upper body stays facing down the hill while the skis twist the legs. Release the edge, and the feet snap around to match the top.
Great video. Very well explained!
Thanks
Interseting awesome video how to ski
Thanks Margie
The video showed what it Looks Like, not how to do it.
This is how to make turns period and crucial the steeper the slope gets. "I want to go straight down the hill, get off my downhill foot." The twisting of your upper body to face down the hill creates torsion in your muscles. It also puts your weight over the tips of your skis. The turning part. When you get off your downhill foot, you are unlocking the edge that was holding your ski across the slope. The weighted uphill foot will instantly swivel to realign with your upper body, and it will roll over onto the inside edge because of the leg angle change that happens with your upper body is going down the hill and your skis are still going across it. you have to literally think about diving down the hill with your upper body as you change your weight.
As far as skiing steep trails, you do the same thing that you do in parallel and carved turns, you just exaggerate the movements so the leg angle can change very quickly. The movements are the same from beginner to Olympic racer. That is if you are being taught the Correct way. Skis are skis. Nothing should change throughout your progression.
the real skill is explaining that in half the words, like the guy in the video did. One rarely benefits from a long explanation. I also wouldn't start throwing "torsion" and "weight over the tips of your skis" out there, because it could easily lead to confusion especially for your students.
@@alexd.5514 That was too many words for you to deal with? He wasn't teaching you how to ski at all no matter how many words he used. My words were clear and to the point and explained why skis will turn when you make very easy movements with your body. You can create a picture in your mind that is easy to remember. NOBODY teaches you that. They only describe what parts of your body look and feel like and that doesn't teach you anything either. "I also wouldn't start throwing "torsion" and "weight over the tips of your skis" out there." You like looking at pictures and mimicking what you see. Right? No thinking required.
@@JB91710 Oops... I thought you were a ski instructor. I'll ignore your lame attempt at insults and respond to the real contents of your answer.
It's not about it being too many words for a person or another, it's about keeping an explanation simple. The more simple and complete it is, the more effective it will be. this extends to "create a picture in your mind", Good on you for that, however do remember your explanation forms that picture, so the same principle applies. In terms of using such sayings as "weight over the tips of your skis" and "torsion", those are very old terms, they're not in current use in the modern ski world because they've been found to lead to confusion. Instead instructors say "counter-rotation" (not torsion) or "weight on the ball of your feet" (not over the tips of your skis lol)
@@alexd.5514 Yeah, only since 1968. Guess I have a lot to learn yet. Too bad you couldn't teach me. Do you realize that nothing you sad TEACHES anything? Of course, you don't. "Counter Rotation."? Welcome to the 60's. "weight on the balls of your feet" You didn't say HOW to get your weight on the balls of your feet. I, did! You aren't a Teacher, you are a follower. You repeat phrases you have heard and have no idea what teaching is. The Only thing that you said that was correct is, keeping it simple. Too bad you don't know How to do that.
@@alexd.5514 C'mon guys, make nice. You're both trying to help the student. JB is no politician, but his comments have helped me the past couple of years. I understood both "torsion" and "counter-rotation" and they compliment each other.
When you rigorously face downhill with your feet across the hill, your body is like a torsion bar waiting to (counter)rotate in the other direction. Then when you unweight the downhill foot (early) and keep your hands downhill, your body "falls" downhill and because of the stored torsion, the former uphill foot (now holding your weight) tends to automatically rotate the new direction, catching your falling body.
Having learned skiing late in life, I've had to grab every tidbit of info and as recently as last week at Killington (in big, soft bumps) was reminding myself: hands forward, feel boot tongue, light pole touch, unweight downhill, (counter)rotate, kick heels with quick edge, "big toe"- "big toe" etc.
Skiing is basically counter-intuitive; throwing one's body downhill - ain't - natural. Nor is leaning forward when you have reason to feel scared. So it's doubly hard for an older person to learn. But one can! I'm 80 and basically learned 13 yrs ago.
Do you use this technique in deep powder as well? I’m trying to get over my fear of steep and chutes. This is how I taught myself how to ski after 35 years - watching videos and then taking to the hill. Thank you for your video.
Hi Sheri, the concept is similar but in deep powder you need to think of tilting the ski, rather than edging it. So the was the skis react to the snow would be different.
In deep powder you won't be able to twist - skid - twist like you see in the video.
Sheri Karanasos I deeper snow you need to keep your momentum going so your skis float up in the powder. If you check hard at end of your turns you will slow this flow and make it more difficult to start your next turn. The goal is to use the energy and float to start each new turn. Make a rounder turn to slow down but try not to go across the slope. The angle of the slope and depth of the snow are important factors. If the powder is knee deep you will need steeper slope angles to keep your momentum. In powder the fall line ( going downhill not across) is your friend. Stay as centered as possible and do not sit back. Reach forward with the basket of your pole and try to keep a rhythm going.
@Sheri Karanasos... One thing that people need to be aware of, is that when you're skiing hardpack you're skiing ON the snow. When skiing powder, you're skiing IN the snow. The difference is that the snow will push up the tips and tails while your weight will push down in the middle, bending your ski differently than when skiing hardpack. So, in deep snow you, physically, will need to produce less edge to get the skis to bend and turn. Also, in deep snow, the skis need to come up and out of the snow to some extent between turns, so the skis will want to make somewhat of a "porpoise-like" action. In other words, the concepts presented in the video remain the same, but differing conditions will require different approaches.
@@howtoskiapp HOW?
@@thomasmedeiros5722 But How do you make the turn? What parts of the body are used and How do you use them? Why will the skis turn and keep you afloat when you do the right things you left out?
great demo!!!
jay son thank you.
So it is necessary also to skid in steeper slope?I wasn’t be able to carve more in steeper slope and when i carve it gives me more speed and sometimes i caught off balance and transfered my weight at the back.
hope you can make more easy tips for the intermediate skiers on how to tackle the steeper slope either through carving or skidding/brushing as they called it or combination of both.I used to watched your video before i start shredding the slope😅.thanks
@@johnwicked4982 glad you like the videos - yes on steeper slopes you will need to skid a little!
howtoskiapp it helps me a lot actually.Sometimes im confused, they said the skiis should be close together approximately 5-10 inches but some said skiis must be in an open stance with the skiis widely apart from each other.Which one is better?
well done!
I’m not confident with steep slopes and I fall behind my friends but I hope this will help
We hope it does help. Let us know how you get on.
im a total beginner, n id appreciate it alot if yiu answer this question. when going from edge to the other and you turn your skis 180. how do you do that? i mean to make both skis turn? you push with toes and turn ankles the same time? or you have your weight right in the middle and you twist both feet??? sorry if im asking something thats very obvious, but im a total beginner.
thanks
We tend to talk about turning your legs - rather than your ankles or feet. Weight is good in the middle.
howtoskiapp What do you mean by “weight in the middle”? - middle of what?
@@epicsdrummer2010 in the middle along the length of the ski - so front and back trying to find the sweet spot in the middle - equal weight/pressure on the front of the skis and the back of the skis
howtoskiapp by middle, I assume you mean the center of the long axis of the running surface of the ski in contact wth the snow. Correct? If so, what aspect of your foot is on the transverse axis of the center of the long axis?
@@epicsdrummer2010 Yes we are just trying to keep it simple. Middle of the ski fore aft, then laterally you will be on the inside edge of the outside ski - so you could use ideas like feeling your arch of the outside ski, and maybe little toe of the inside etc
What's with the intro music cutting in and out
he makes it look easy ! 😂
It is easy. If it's hard then you're doing something wrong.
A Problem is when the steep slope is icy.
Yes, and that is where it’s doubly important to keep your shoulders facing downhill so that, with your torso twisted, you can now edge aggressively by pressing your new downhill knee into the slope.
One helpful confidence - building exercise, assuming your edges are reasonably sharp, is to edge so aggressively on the icy slope that you come to a complete halt. Most of your weight should be on your downhill ski and standing there for a few seconds will give you confidence that you can stop when you have to.
@@billd.5892 Thanks for your advice, it helps me even though I've grown up to handle this.
Making those sliding turns is what Makes the slopes icy. When a slope is icy the balancing act begins. You still want to be balanced on your downhill ski and use your uphill ski only as an outrigger for support when the downhill ski breaks away but you need to stay balanced on that downhill ski. If you pull back or lean up the hill your ski will flatten and loose grip and you won't be able to control where they go.
@@billd.5892 Very good. What you said plus doing that in a traverse so you not only feel yourself balancing on the edge but experience it while moving. When you want to stop, your drive your downhill ski shin onto the tongue of the boot to load the tip and unload the tail and then move your hip into the slops to lay your leg over so your ski is more on edge which will bend the tip more.
no offence but this drill is called "braquage" here is a very good demonstration th-cam.com/video/yCc90N4GxHY/w-d-xo.html additionally, you are talking about "pivoting or steering", rotation is a term most often used to describe when a skier uses more or poorly directed upper body movement to initiate or complete a turn. i only mention this as some of your visitors will likely take a lesson at some point and this inconsistency is likely to be confusing.
catchy tune either way.. lol
How to ski "steeps" but the whole tutorial is shot on blue squares!
You can’t do that if the slope has bumps... and most do.
It's exactly what you want to do on bumps. The aggressive style, by using the rebound to turn.
Jelle Smit it's exactly how you get yourself a nice hospital retreat
Nature Good Allright, then explain to me how you should ski moguls? I retract my legs to get over the bump, stretch my legs after the bump, I rotate my feet and put my ski's on edge to lower my speed. I agree that you don't want to 'jump' over the bumps (maybe thats what you mean?) but you can use that rebound to lower the impact on the next bump
It's works for me anyways. I'm in control and it looks good enough to impress all da girls in the lifts ;P
Jelle Smit if you're after impressing the ladies, then that's the way for sure. if you want to slide like the wind and enjoy the good time, then moderation is the key.
1:30 Show with No Tell. That shows you what it will look like when you do some other things that weren't taught here.
Sembra facile hahaha
Never carve that way.
What do you mean
Sorry, this is not a good video and not good skiing
you are right. the ski tips always give it away
Actually he is demonstrating quite well. Problem is, he isn't Teaching you how to do what he shows you. Nobody does. All show and no tell. The sliding turns are for Survival only, they are not how to ski on steep trails. If you watch that later turns, notice how the tips of his skis are turning INTO the turn while the tails just follow. Like the front tires of your car doing the steering.
This is a good and helpful video. Learning how to survive in a narrow steep chute is important. Rotating the skis, initially sliding and then edging to stop, is useful. And doing this while using a blocking pole plant is another level of low speed security in the steeps.
Once one has learned to survive on the steeps, then one is able to learn how to do a quick carved turn. But if you don’t feel safe in the first place, then the second stage of learning will not happen.
@@wildbill805 I think you are looking at "Skiing The Steeps" and what this video "Shows", but does not teach, backwards. Anyone who can ski on a very steep slope, can do those sliding turns. Anyone who can't ski the steeps should not be taught this because they have no business being there Until they are competent with carved turns. Knowing how to ski properly comes first. A person who goes down a slope they are incapable of skiing safely and competently, is a hazard to everyone there including themselves. Again, good skiers can already do this because they Have the knowledge to adapt.
This says Do It, not How To Do It! Skiing Tips should have teaching in them so the viewers can do what they are being shown. Body positions, weight changes and how to modify both to control direction and speed.
We believe strongly that a skier needs to know what it is they are trying to achieve.
@@howtoskiapp "We believe strongly that a skier needs to know what it is they are trying to achieve." That was useless to a student.
That comment didn't TEACH them anything. None of you teach people How to think about skiing and what to do with their bodies and when to change their weight to allow their skis to turn! That was my Point!
You are pushing your heels. The accent does not buy you a turn. Anybody can get on TH-cam.
He is a good skier and is not pushing his heels but is directing the tips down the hill. You have a bad eye. Good explanations and a good video.
James Dunn sorry James but you have no clue.
im a total beginner, appreciate it if you can answer my question. how does he turn? twisting ankles and putting weight on front toes area? or put more weight on the back n turn front part? i cant really do it, tried it and one leg keeps getting stuck in the snow n i only turn one leg and the result is falling..... thanks
His ski technique is spot on. I'd bet good money he's a much better skier than you are.
yeye there are better skiers on youtube but the vid is about using two of the steering elements in different amounts, the effects of which are demonstrated clearly. Performing perfect turns alone isn't going to make viewers understand much. In any case braquage is a legit technique so suck it. Or post a vid of you carving down a couloir...
Poor explanation of the demo and desired results, though of course one cannot put it all together in one tip. The demo does not match the explanation for the most part. Truth is this is a lame tip.