This is a very cool technic that allows you to light a scene in compositing instead of the traditional way. It offers many advantages. Files available here: www.dropbox.co...
Someone asked me for a step by step video. I'm sorry I don't have time to make one but you can get all the files in my dropbox. www.dropbox.com/s/7haj3gphatc2fs4/barbershop.zip?dl=0
This is really useful for compositing and having more control on specific lights for corrections and so without having to rerender. Thanks for this information!
5:39, 10 pushups for each light source...from now on I just start doing pushups before starting to watch your videos for any future mistakes I might make :-) 10:00 lol Thankyou so much for this information!
@@vrSpeechless Ah ah! No need for the next one. It's already out. Unless you try to match the grain without doing it separately like I explain. Then it's 10 push-ups per channel, so 30.
can we have step by step detailed version of this comp technic, since I am a noob comp artist .and I know it takes a long time to make tutorials .but try with simple cube setup please..
You should be able to make Blender render (or at least Cycles) out a Y-up output if you want to. It's gonna be a bit fiddly though. If you use Cycles, you can tell your shader to give AOV outputs. So what you could do is take your normals, split them into X Y Z and then combine them into RGB but routing Y to B and Z to G. You might also need to make one or both of them negative (using, say, a Math node). Plug that into your custom color output of your AOV Node, and give it some descriptive name like "Y Up Normals" or something. In the Layer Properties tab, you will have to also scroll down to the Shader AOV section, add the custom layer and make sure you name it right and set it to the right type. It will then appear as additional output for the compositor, already with the correct alignment. I suppose alternatively, you could do it for either Cycles or Eevee straight in the compositor. In that case it ought to give you identical results.
We’re actually developing a stunning Blender pipeline at the office and we automatically generate AOVs as needed. We have the same issue with motion vectors. In Nuke, they go in the wrong direction and we need to flip them. I didn’t think about using a negative value to change the direction of the normal pass. Thanks for the tip. I’ll check it out right now. Cheers!
This is fantastic! I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but if I have any kind of light from the background, the result of multiplying and adding all those layers together is significantly brighter than the original view layer render. (In anticipation of the first question, No, I am not adding the original view layer to the others!)
Bob you absolutely must stop with your hardwork awesome professional tutorials, we are only poor humans are looking at God :) Impressive as always !! Thank you
@@BlenderBob tu as raison mais j'ignorais que tu parlais français Alors je réitère : tu déchires tout je suis un grand fan et je bondis de joie à chacune de tes nouvelles vidéos
Is there a Nuke Bob somewhere ? I am in the process of learning Nuke (about 1 year partly using it, this is such a great tool ! Want to know more !) I really enjoy this video. Thank you.
@@BlenderBob Oh, j'ai bien hâte de voir cette série. Je trouve votre façon de présenter les choses bien agréable et surtout efficace. À suivre. Et encore un gros merci pour toute cette richesse partagée. On est bien chanceux de vous avoir. Je trouve cette communauté très généreuse.
@@BlenderBob yah blender guru always care about us-beginners.:) i guess more than clarification i need simplification. but you're amazing Bob! thank you
I've been watching this video a hundred times and i've downloaded the file, i don't understand how do you export a sequence with the lighting animation from a single image.. Can someone explain to me please? :)
Me! Me! Me! I can explain! Actually, you don't export an animation. It's just one image. All lights are on a separate layer. Then in comp, that's where you do the animation. You can animate the opacity of each layer of the color you multiply on a layer. If you stil need help, this weekend I will give the link to my Discord server and I'll be able to explain it to you in person.
That certainly did blow my tiny mind! Amazing, especially the Normal-map-based compositing relighting stuff. Does that work in Natron? Could really do great things in a matte painting with that I think. I will have to go back a few times and replay your video to grasp exactly all the steps you took. ;)
@@BlenderBob i once was surprised about how flip fluids teams has achieved it using attributes, i mean there must be a way to do so maybe you can isolate every light and and every part where the light interact with each others, and changing the hue to match the subtractive mix (i am not a composter guy, i do shader more ) ,.... I am just brainstorming...happy to hear your thoughts.
I dont'quite under stand, how this could be a single frame. doesn't Blender have to render the same frame once per renderlayer . So 3 times for 3 layers?
It does, but now it’s different with the new light passes that we didn’t have at the time. But it’s one frame because all the passes are in a single EXR file.
@@BlenderBob I see. 😅. Are all the passes and light sources still rendered at the same time, despite being in different layers? Im asking becuase I try to find an efficent way to render a specific setup quickly. I have a Scene with various objects and each needs to be lit by its own set of Red, Green and Blue Sun lights. (Its a Cartoon style render with special shaders). The different channels control things like the Rim lights,. Gradients and Basic shadows. While I'm writing this I may have found a solution to that. Thanks for the inspiration.
Regarding what you say about compact nodes in Nuke and that it would be unworkable in Blender I would think you could use node groups to make things entirely manageable...no?
Not really. Even groups are huge nodes in Blender. Give Natron a try, it's the same as Nuke, and you will understand. Blender's compositor is unfortunately just not up to the task for VFXs. And it's too slow. Maybe one day... it would be nice.
@@BlenderBob Blender slowness is one thing but I'm having trouble imagining physical node size as a significant problem (if you hit Ctrl-H a node will shrink down so only the used sockets are shown...might be a Node Wrangler feature...I forget) but I guess I'll have to try Natron, as you said.
@@marcinm9251 The problem with HDRIs is that you can't turned them off per layers. So you will need to make a different file with only the HDRI in it and render it sparely then import it in comp.
@@BlenderBob Bob, looks like you wanna do push-ups? :) I mentioned this on the blender facebook group, where you post link to this tutorial. I have developed my own, slightly different method of making multi lighting. I turned off the lights one by one and did separate renderings with a single light turned on. Then I combined files in the compositor. So, quite like you. So I know this method. I thought you might find a way to avoid rendering everything to separate files. Actually, it's not much different, but still always fewer files to handle. And I think it is definitely possible. Recently I started using E-Cycles. In E-Cycles is a similar way to make a ligth groups, as they call it... The lights have to be move to the separate layers (colections) and then a special node is created for the composer. With this node you can also control the ambient light separately Just like LuxCorerender
That y up will never happen because its just too much work changing it all.. Maybe only a convert at export but nothing more. Thanks for your great videos.
It's a constant problem in the VFX world. In gaming, they all work Z up. In VFX, Y up. All the cool stuff being added in Blender are for the VFX world, not gaming. Blender even abandoned their game engine. If I export an object Y up, sure, it will work. If I import it back in Blender, it will have a -90 rotation in X and if you had expression, drivers or complex rigging, it will screw up everything. Too much trouble? What about making everything all nodes? That's also a lot of trouble. Cheers! :-)
@@BlenderBob Its possible but not very likely to happen. For this you need to change it on many places. I encountered that problem now also quite often but there is no relief coming..
@@ArtPomelo Yeah, unfortunately. This could be a show stopper for many big studios to integrate Blender in their pipeline. In Maya, you just go in the prefs and decide which axis you want. But it was made like that from the beginning.
I was very used to Y axis being up. Mistake blender has Z up. When a software is new and it's infrastructure is set up it's very hard to change the fundamentals. I don't see how blender could change it's coordinate system and there would be backwards comparability problem.
@@BlenderBob the X-Z problem actually reminded me of mentioned volume motion blur problem in cycles. Some parts of software are like the foundation and can't be easily changed without redoing the code. So far I actually use the old OBJ format to import/export my models and the axis change isn't a problem. I could imagine it being an issue with exporting complete motion and scene files to a different piece of software.
@@michaelcooney9368 Most of the time if works great converting from Blender to another software. Here's where things can go wrong: I export a model as OBJ, do some stuff in another package, reimport the model. The model now has a -90 on X. So if you have animation or expression, drivers or else, it all breaks. They should have thought about this when they started 2.80 and rebuilding most of the code.
@@BlenderBob I still often use my old Lightwave 3d for poly modelling, it's toolset is old but huge. But it's .obj export is still great. It saved a .mat file, so in blender the UVs and separate materials transfer. And I can send catmul subdiv meshes with creases between blender and Lightwave.
When you export, you can. The problem is, you export an OBJ Z up, you do whatever you need to do, you reimport it but the model will be properly oriented but with a -90 rotation in X. So if you had an animation, an expression or a driver on the object, it's not going to work anymore. You need to apply the transformations. These are unnecessary steps and it doesn't always work as expected.
@@BlenderBob sorry, i think i didnt explain myself, English is not my first lenguaje, i mean that since neutron is an Opensourse software it's a shame that there is not a Lot of tutorials about it
![ค้างคืนโรงเก็บกระสวยอวกาศร้างกลางทะเลทราย [Around The World Ep. 3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E5bWZQhABJE/mqdefault.jpg)
Someone asked me for a step by step video. I'm sorry I don't have time to make one but you can get all the files in my dropbox. www.dropbox.com/s/7haj3gphatc2fs4/barbershop.zip?dl=0
This is really useful for compositing and having more control on specific lights for corrections and so without having to rerender. Thanks for this information!
One of the best Blender channels i found in months! Thanks for the vids alpha Bob!
Thank you!
Now you can do this with light groups! No more need to create extra layers.
Merci pour ses explications ! Top !
7:52 - I knew if you were a hardcore comper you'll come to this. Great video, mate!
I consider myself as mid-level as far as compositing goes. You should see what the seniors guys can do at the office! Some of them a geniuses. :-)
Thank you soooooooo very much! This will help out immensely! I can't wait to apply your technique!
wow your channel is criminally underrated!
5:39, 10 pushups for each light source...from now on I just start doing pushups before starting to watch your videos for any future mistakes I might make :-)
10:00 lol
Thankyou so much for this information!
You got that right! PER LIGHTS!!!!
@@BlenderBob I am preemptively doing pushups right now, for next weeks video, lol
@@vrSpeechless Ah ah! No need for the next one. It's already out. Unless you try to match the grain without doing it separately like I explain. Then it's 10 push-ups per channel, so 30.
Well this is way above my head...:)
wow nice trick, what a good experiences
I'm a noob, learning from everything i see... but this video
OMG, like a boss
Thank you it's very interesting topic
Thank you so much for these Insights!
You video on making aluminium was nice, but I'm glad you're back to making GOLD! ;)
Absolutely awesome! Now I have to collect my exploided head :)
can we have step by step detailed version of this comp technic, since I am a noob comp artist .and I know it takes a long time to make tutorials .but try with simple cube setup please..
I don't have time to make one but you can get the files in my dropbox. www.dropbox.com/s/7haj3gphatc2fs4/barbershop.zip?dl=0
@@BlenderBob thanks
You should be able to make Blender render (or at least Cycles) out a Y-up output if you want to. It's gonna be a bit fiddly though.
If you use Cycles, you can tell your shader to give AOV outputs. So what you could do is take your normals, split them into X Y Z and then combine them into RGB but routing Y to B and Z to G. You might also need to make one or both of them negative (using, say, a Math node).
Plug that into your custom color output of your AOV Node, and give it some descriptive name like "Y Up Normals" or something.
In the Layer Properties tab, you will have to also scroll down to the Shader AOV section, add the custom layer and make sure you name it right and set it to the right type. It will then appear as additional output for the compositor, already with the correct alignment.
I suppose alternatively, you could do it for either Cycles or Eevee straight in the compositor. In that case it ought to give you identical results.
We’re actually developing a stunning Blender pipeline at the office and we automatically generate AOVs as needed. We have the same issue with motion vectors. In Nuke, they go in the wrong direction and we need to flip them. I didn’t think about using a negative value to change the direction of the normal pass. Thanks for the tip. I’ll check it out right now. Cheers!
The point position as the same issue. Probably UV too. We have to figure that out and script it so we don’t have to do this all the time manually.
Yep! You flip the green and blue and -1 for the green channel! :-)
@@BlenderBob Every single vector pass will do that, yeah.
Glad to be of help :)
@@Kram1032 You you inspired me and I just did this: th-cam.com/video/8GL3XRd6pCk/w-d-xo.html
You deserve 1million subscribers
This is fantastic!
I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but if I have any kind of light from the background, the result of multiplying and adding all those layers together is significantly brighter than the original view layer render. (In anticipation of the first question, No, I am not adding the original view layer to the others!)
Strange. I would need to see your setup in order to help you. The best way is to join my discord server. Link in the description
U blew my mind 60 sec in!
I uhhh... sorta wished I saw this before I keyframed all these lights in blender
Bob you absolutely must stop with your hardwork awesome professional tutorials, we are only poor humans are looking at God :)
Impressive as always !!
Thank you
Merci Stéphane mais désolé, je vais continuer... :-)
@@BlenderBob I hope you will 😁
Is it because my bad english you understood I'm french guy ??? 😂
@@stephanechataignie Pourquoi écrire en anglais quand on peut se comprendre en français? :-) J'avais très bien compris ton magnifique commentaire.
@@BlenderBob tu as raison mais j'ignorais que tu parlais français
Alors je réitère : tu déchires tout je suis un grand fan et je bondis de joie à chacune de tes nouvelles vidéos
@@stephanechataignie Merci Stéphane. Je suis Québecois :-)
That's so cool. 😍
Really interesting.
You are GREAT!
Thank you so much Marcin!
If I ever give you a scene with the lights flickering in the 3D scene, I'm gonna do a loooooot of push ups xD hahaha
pushups.... you must be former military... LOL
Is there a Nuke Bob somewhere ? I am in the process of learning Nuke (about 1 year partly using it, this is such a great tool ! Want to know more !) I really enjoy this video. Thank you.
Surement. Mais je vais en parler dans ma prochaine série sur le compositing.
@@BlenderBob Oh, j'ai bien hâte de voir cette série. Je trouve votre façon de présenter les choses bien agréable et surtout efficace. À suivre. Et encore un gros merci pour toute cette richesse partagée. On est bien chanceux de vous avoir. Je trouve cette communauté très généreuse.
This is Blender Bob, not Nuke Bob! I'm crying! :)
I think we need blender guru to re-Explain this one!
I don’t think Blender Guru goes to into this level of complexity. ;-) Which part do you need help with? Maybe I can clarify for you.
@@BlenderBob yah blender guru always care about us-beginners.:) i guess more than clarification i need simplification. but you're amazing Bob! thank you
@@frey8966 Ah ah! Blender Bob is about working if the VFX film industry and it's aimed at advanced users, mostly. Happy new year Fray!
That final joke ! x'D
I was so hoping for people to see that. TH-cam stats shows me that very few people watch my videos until the end.
@@BlenderBob I especially watched until the very end, hoping for a good joke !
I wasn't disappointed. ^^
Cheers from France ;)
Maybe Nuke Bob is lurking in the shadows...(!)
Na.... that are people much more qualified than me to do that. And I got so many things to talk about with Blender...
I've been watching this video a hundred times and i've downloaded the file, i don't understand how do you export a sequence with the lighting animation from a single image.. Can someone explain to me please? :)
Me! Me! Me! I can explain! Actually, you don't export an animation. It's just one image. All lights are on a separate layer. Then in comp, that's where you do the animation. You can animate the opacity of each layer of the color you multiply on a layer. If you stil need help, this weekend I will give the link to my Discord server and I'll be able to explain it to you in person.
@@BlenderBob thank you for your quick response
Awesome Video! Can you make one on how to properly add film grain in compositor?
Done! Check it out!
That certainly did blow my tiny mind! Amazing, especially the Normal-map-based compositing relighting stuff. Does that work in Natron? Could really do great things in a matte painting with that I think. I will have to go back a few times and replay your video to grasp exactly all the steps you took. ;)
Natron, nop. Nothing 3D in Natron. Sorry!
Figured it out. Scrap what I said. Just use a dot product and multiply it with the albedo. Multiply and add it as needed.
Hi Bob!
Can you clarify one doubt I have?
For this I need to do one render for each light ou group of light I have in my scene?
Yep!
🍻 thanks
You're welcome!
Is this basically light groups in cycles?
Kinda of. That's one way to see it. :-)
oh my god its become hard to learn blender in depth now i have to learn nuke...
How did you solve the light itself being cast on the walls per light?
This seemed like a pre-lightgroup implementation.
Put every lights on a separate layer.
Is there a way to brighten a dark recording on blender?
You could use a gamma node in the compositeur
You would make me do pushups
You bet they would!
Ok now you made me wonder can you achieve a subtractive color mixing using the compositer
I don’t see how. It’s not logical
@@BlenderBob i once was surprised about how flip fluids teams has achieved it using attributes, i mean there must be a way to do so maybe you can isolate every light and and every part where the light interact with each others, and changing the hue to match the subtractive mix (i am not a composter guy, i do shader more ) ,.... I am just brainstorming...happy to hear your thoughts.
I dont'quite under stand, how this could be a single frame.
doesn't Blender have to render the same frame once per renderlayer .
So 3 times for 3 layers?
It does, but now it’s different with the new light passes that we didn’t have at the time. But it’s one frame because all the passes are in a single EXR file.
@@BlenderBob I see. 😅. Are all the passes and light sources still rendered at the same time, despite being in different layers?
Im asking becuase I try to find an efficent way to render a specific setup quickly.
I have a Scene with various objects and each needs to be lit by its own set of Red, Green and Blue Sun lights. (Its a Cartoon style render with special shaders).
The different channels control things like the Rim lights,. Gradients and Basic shadows.
While I'm writing this I may have found a solution to that.
Thanks for the inspiration.
Regarding what you say about compact nodes in Nuke and that it would be unworkable in Blender I would think you could use node groups to make things entirely manageable...no?
Not really. Even groups are huge nodes in Blender. Give Natron a try, it's the same as Nuke, and you will understand. Blender's compositor is unfortunately just not up to the task for VFXs. And it's too slow. Maybe one day... it would be nice.
@@BlenderBob Blender slowness is one thing but I'm having trouble imagining physical node size as a significant problem (if you hit Ctrl-H a node will shrink down so only the used sockets are shown...might be a Node Wrangler feature...I forget) but I guess I'll have to try Natron, as you said.
@@bmbiz If you saw some of the insane node trees that we have at the office you would understand. They would be gigantic in Blender. :-)
@@BlenderBob Okay, I believe you. :)
Bob, what about hdri environement? Is thare a way to put it on a diferent render layer?
Of course! It's a light after all.
@@BlenderBob That's great Bob, but how do you do it? :)
@@marcinm9251 The problem with HDRIs is that you can't turned them off per layers. So you will need to make a different file with only the HDRI in it and render it sparely then import it in comp.
@@BlenderBob
Bob, looks like you wanna do push-ups?
:)
I mentioned this on the blender facebook group, where you post link to this tutorial. I have developed my own, slightly different method of making multi lighting. I turned off the lights one by one and did separate renderings with a single light turned on. Then I combined files in the compositor. So, quite like you. So I know this method. I thought you might find a way to avoid rendering everything to separate files. Actually, it's not much different, but still always fewer files to handle.
And I think it is definitely possible.
Recently I started using E-Cycles. In E-Cycles is a similar way to make a ligth groups, as they call it...
The lights have to be move to the separate layers (colections) and then a special node is created for the composer. With this node you can also control the ambient light separately
Just like LuxCorerender
That y up will never happen because its just too much work changing it all.. Maybe only a convert at export but nothing more. Thanks for your great videos.
It's a constant problem in the VFX world. In gaming, they all work Z up. In VFX, Y up. All the cool stuff being added in Blender are for the VFX world, not gaming. Blender even abandoned their game engine. If I export an object Y up, sure, it will work. If I import it back in Blender, it will have a -90 rotation in X and if you had expression, drivers or complex rigging, it will screw up everything. Too much trouble? What about making everything all nodes? That's also a lot of trouble. Cheers! :-)
@@BlenderBob Its possible but not very likely to happen. For this you need to change it on many places. I encountered that problem now also quite often but there is no relief coming..
@@ArtPomelo Yeah, unfortunately. This could be a show stopper for many big studios to integrate Blender in their pipeline. In Maya, you just go in the prefs and decide which axis you want. But it was made like that from the beginning.
I was very used to Y axis being up. Mistake blender has Z up. When a software is new and it's infrastructure is set up it's very hard to change the fundamentals. I don't see how blender could change it's coordinate system and there would be backwards comparability problem.
I hear you. But honestly, that's not my problem, as a user. Well, it's my problem as a user because it's a problem when I use it. Confused? Me too...
@@BlenderBob the X-Z problem actually reminded me of mentioned volume motion blur problem in cycles. Some parts of software are like the foundation and can't be easily changed without redoing the code. So far I actually use the old OBJ format to import/export my models and the axis change isn't a problem. I could imagine it being an issue with exporting complete motion and scene files to a different piece of software.
@@michaelcooney9368 Most of the time if works great converting from Blender to another software. Here's where things can go wrong: I export a model as OBJ, do some stuff in another package, reimport the model. The model now has a -90 on X. So if you have animation or expression, drivers or else, it all breaks. They should have thought about this when they started 2.80 and rebuilding most of the code.
@@BlenderBob I still often use my old Lightwave 3d for poly modelling, it's toolset is old but huge. But it's .obj export is still great. It saved a .mat file, so in blender the UVs and separate materials transfer. And I can send catmul subdiv meshes with creases between blender and Lightwave.
@@michaelcooney9368 Cool! Lightwave is a very old software. Wasn't Lightwave the same thing as video toaster?
sir I want this barber shop model and how I get
You can download it from the Blender web site in the demo section
@@BlenderBob thank you sir
As far as I know you can change Z to Y axis in the settings tab
When you export, you can. The problem is, you export an OBJ Z up, you do whatever you need to do, you reimport it but the model will be properly oriented but with a -90 rotation in X. So if you had an animation, an expression or a driver on the object, it's not going to work anymore. You need to apply the transformations. These are unnecessary steps and it doesn't always work as expected.
Neutron Bob could be a great Chanel, there is little to non tutorials about it :(
Sorry you didn't like it.
@@BlenderBob sorry, i think i didnt explain myself, English is not my first lenguaje, i mean that since neutron is an Opensourse software it's a shame that there is not a Lot of tutorials about it
I do like your tutorials and your Channel a Lot
@@christianmilan5544 Ha ok. Yeah, I can't cover everything but I will talk about compositing in my next series.
Exr?
Always! You work in the film industry, there's only exr. It's the best format. Comes from ILM.
haha Y to sky ALWAYS, I hate how it's Z up in blender, Z is always depth in dimensions
In game environments, z is usually up.
3 times longer rendering!.....with only 3 lights
Yeah, but way much faster to make changes after it has been rendered. You only need to render once. That's the whole point :-)
"substractive"
Blender booob