Hi, I'm an electrical engineer - high speed digital hardware designer. Transmission line affects ONLY matter when the length you're dealing with is > 1/20th of the wavelength of the fundamental (your frequency). So, at 20kHz (the highest typical audible frequency), the speed of electricity traveling on a wire at some large fraction of C (speed of light = 300,000,000 meters/second) and let's assume it's 0.5C to over-exaggerated. That's 150E6 Meters/Sec. 20KHz has a wavelength of 7,500 meters. 7500/20 = 375 Meters. So, if your cable is more than 4 football fields, then you might want to consider transmission line affects at 20kHz. At 2KHz that's 3,750 meters, at 200Hz, that's 37,500 meters... Good job Gene calling them on their BS!
thanks I was trying to use the most conservative estimates up to 100kHz to be overly cautious of TL effects and still come up with over 1000ft of cable before it matters. LOL
Ha! I replied before finishing the video. At work we care about 1/20th wavelength, bc we consider 1/10 the length of 1 transition to another transition. at 10Ghz (6 inches per nanosecond - speed of electricity on FR-4 PCB material) we have to worry about distances of 30 thousands of an inch (30 mils) on a PCB board. With an average board thickness of around 60 Mils, even the layer you travel on when you hit a through hole via (like when coming into an SFP+ cage) matters, where the extra unused length of a via in the PCB can become a parallel stub and cause reflections. It's crazy! Now consider the newest HDMI with high speed SERDES data rates of 28Gbps, now you care about 10 mils! This is why the quality of the cable has to be SOOO good, because the impedance of those differential pairs on the high speed HDMI lines have to travel on a near perfect transition line. Manufacturers are going to have to start using some high end expensive twin-axe cables with very tightly controlled impedances.
@@JonathanDFielding Hey Jonathan, good article topic if you're interested in writing it up for Audioholics, I will publish. email me info@audioholics.com and put HDMI TL Article in the topic. thanks.
Excellent job Gene and fellow audioholics, so I won't go into detail as yall nailed it. Im an electrical and computer design engineer and it shocks me the bs we see on this topic in our beloved hobby. I love and appreciate these kinds of videos from you Gene as not all people that love this hobby have our or better your knowledge and people can understandably fall for the bs. Hilarious thumb nail 2 Gene. Stay safe, Im listening and looking forward to Audioholics in 2021!
I am Engineer by education, and my field is all numbers and math. Just recently got into speakers and audio. My goodness, the sheer amount of opinions in this area. So glad I found your channel. Thank you for all the work you do Gene.
I am anything but an electrical engineer Gene and didn’t understand 75% of the technical details in the video, but your advice hasn’t led me in a wrong direction yet and I will keep following it!
As a home integrator, I always try to give my customers the same length for the front two channels. Specifically, with towers, or bookshelf speakers. It is not uncommon for people to change their mind on speaker placement at some point in the future. Having an extra 3 feet of cable on one channel is better than having to extend the speaker wire later by 3 feet. It also reduces a service call because they’ll be able to extend the speaker on their own if needed .
I heard years ago that speaker wire should be the same length and it really made sense but when I got into home theater I started to realize that L&R speakers were farther apart than a center speaker and as was the speaker wire and side surrounds as back surrounds but continued to make sure the wire to each set of speakers were the same. So thanks for freeing my thoughts on this issue.
All my speaker cables are different lengths because of my room. I never once considered to keep them the same length. It crossed my mind when I did the set up, but its been fine for decades.
Hi, Great informative Chanel that speaks the truth. I am considering changing my speaker cables of different lengths ( 5ft& 16ft ) to canare 4s11 cable chosen from the reviews. I am clearer now on cable length. Thank you.
I obsess over the details Speaker toe in , distance from walls and corners , I sold audio back in the hey day late 70's to 80's gear. I was told by the senior sales guy that Monster cables and the like makes great profit but its basically snake oil. Thanks for the refresher I also worked at a switch gear mfg learned alot about transmission and distribution of electricity math is over my head for transmission but distribution was easier to comprehend. great video keep the gray matter sharp im just an old audiophile sales guy .
Hahahahaha, I love your thumbnail! Also I really like your Honesty and I trust your word 1000% you are my Source for everything related to my home theater build.
Gene, I gotta believe a fellow SPJC grad! .... That is if my eyes were reading the diploma behind you correctly. Decades ago I installed some speakers for a family friend who could be a bit frugal, he asked about the necessity of matching cable lengths. My answer was if you want to spend more money on cable and labor I'm all for it. Saving money sounded much better to him than anything coming out of his speakers. Thanks for giving me the science to back up common sense. Keep up the good work.
I did hear on the forum get equal length speaker cables. So I bought some 12 ft. 12AWG speaker cables 35 bucks each. My Old speaker wires needed upgrade anyway. Monster cable from the late 90's that were probably bent and had problems from furniture on them and various kinks. So it probably fixed that problem. Length doesn't matter unless it's exaggerated. Something new for my wife to learn also. Thanks!
The people who put a finger down sure sell expensive HiFi stuff. I am already sure about the relationship of the length and resistance of the cable. I only had doubts about the effects of radio frequency, but you clarified it very well. Greetings.
I am just putting my sound system together for our Swing Dancing nights where I will be DJing old Jazz Swing Tracks. We have a soundcraft mixer which we have bought and some Yamaha Active Speakers. The connection between them is XLR. I looked around the internet because I want the best sound I can get. Then I saw the price of some of the cables. I do have a history working in the computer industry where I have always made my own cables which means I am very comfortable and competent with a soldering iron. I've been through so many videos lookign for the best components and where I have landed is on Starquad cable with Neutrik connectors. I've run a few small run cables and so I have proved they work and am now looking at longer cables so I can set the speakers and desk up on a stage. Your videos have been really useful helping me work through the various claims and pseudo science. The Audiophile arena is seductive for someone like me because I am providing a service and obviously want to produce the best sound I can. I also believe in science which makes so much of what you say really welcome. Thanks for all the effort you put into the videos and the information
It easy to understand why bulk wire sellers advise the lengths "should be the same" using incredibly simple math. If a customer needs 3 feet for their left speaker and 20 ft. for the R, which makes the seller more money? Selling them 23 ft or 40ft. ?
Exactly what I have always thought. My amp is almost directly under left speaker whilst the right is 5m away (not ideal I know!) and the cable has to run outside and around a chimney breast. When I initially installed them I used some generic speaker cables and I thought it sounded ok. Then my friend had a reel of quality cable left over from a job & so I replaced my cables & the results were amazing. But we were comparing cheap with good quality. As for left & right, I can’t tell any difference with the quality cable. I’m running Cambridge Azur 540a amp, Wharfedale Diamond 220 with a 20+ year old Yamaha 8 inch sub.
Thank you for this video. One more awesome video of yours! I just got off the phone with Polk Audio customer support guy and he has been insisting on me using the same cable lengths for Left and Right channels as well as Centre. I would need to make one wire approximately 6-8 feet longer than needed and coil excess to make them of equal lengths. Now I see that I can not by any means see any difference with 14 Gauge wire in my living room setup even if I have 20 feet difference between cable lengths. I did already have to run quite a bit of 12 Gauge wire through basement to the rear speakers and trying to add all the same length to the front right speaker sitting 4 feet apart from receiver would be insane waste of wire and space.
That’s consistent with what Paul Speltz told me when I purchased level 3 Anticable from him- he recommended to just keep the shorter speaker wire at or above 50 percent of the longer wire but that it wasn’t a death blow if it were even shorter. So my right speaker cable is 17 feet and my left speaker cable is 10. Thx for a great video.
Gene, You have just beautifully described what I have always told my friends that are new to the hobby. Is there a MEASUREABLE difference? Yes, I'm sure that with sufficiently sensitive test equipment you could measure a difference. Is there a perceptible difference? Mostly Nope....Just don't worry about it, spend your money on better equipment and/or room treatments.
You produce the best videos about audio ever, not that I rally understand dB's but some day I'll get there. The only think I've done is to use the proper gage according to distance. My ear is not really that discernible to know that one cable is thicker or longer than the other. Thank you so much for all the education you give us.
Had always used same length cables because that's just how it worked out. When setting up my listening room in a new configuration it made more sense for one cable to be about 6 feet longer than the other. At first I didn't want to do it and was just going to leave 6 feet of slack on the "shorter" run. In the end it seemed like a reasonable thing to try with my modestly priced cable choice so I went with 2 different lengths. I couldn't tell any difference so they stayed unequal. Still that way years later.
A question along the same lines, along with cable length, 20 years when I built my dedicated theater, everyone said that every connection reduced sound quality. I have connections behind every speaker to plug speaker cable into the wall and would like to clean up behind my rack and have a wall plug in to plug in all my speaker cables from my equipment into a wall instead of wad of cables coming out of vaccuum tube hanging out of of my ceiling behind the rack that has full rear accessibility.
just like to say thanks Gene as ive just purchased a set of 3m kimber kable speaker cables. they have opened the sound ,made it sound crisp and clear and a much more life like sound. i had beldon before.and this 12 strand kimber is much better.i cant see me changing for anything else.i paid £ 100!
Gene: I do keep my Front LR cables same length, right now I am using about 12 feet per side. Although in reality I would only need 12 and about 5. But the reason is not fantasy, its practicality. If I decide to move the system to another location in the house, the 12' length should work, and if at that location I may need 8 and 8. So when I got the cable I did cut 2 equal lengths and prepared all 4 ends the same not knowing which side was what.
Thank you for reassuring what I had experimented with and didn't hear a difference. Very good video. My cables are way to long but I'd rather have extra so I can move around.
Thanks for the video! I'll be running 14 gauge wire to the left channel at about 22 ft and the right channel at 11 ft from a 210 watt Parasound Amp to Klipsch Forte I believe 8 ohms. Might be able to get away with 16 gauge but figure all copper 14 to play it safe. I'm 56 so I'm sure it will be good enough. I am still hanging on to wired connections like these meanwhile everyone I know says to go cordless, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth with everything. BT for the radio in the bathroom or garage but cmon,....BT still cant match wired system anymore than Wi-Fi can match a hard wire to an RJ45.
It’s possible..... I would be more worried about signal cables ran with power. This can be an issue with mobile audio. It seems like damn near any noise is rare in home audio.... when there is, it’s often bad inputs/outputs
I've always just cut the speaker cords the same length. I don't do it for any transmission effect or distance delay. I did it for aethetics. And my OCD. :)
I always make my speaker cables the same length, usually to allow the speakers to be anywhere in the room. No point in making them the exact length then have a room move round and need to make the new cables to fit the new locations. Also if you are OCD then same length matters. While we are on the subject of cable, my friend has a HiFi shop and lent me a lot of monies worth of cables. Now I have a reasonable system and I tried the cables for a week, could I hear a difference, hmm possibly, was it better, well if I had bought them it would have been better as how could I admit anything else, but in any case, I returned the cable. On my way home I stopped off at the shops and bought a nice bottle of wine, later I can honestly say that after 2 glasses of said wine my system sounded excellent.
Because of necessity my rear surround speaker cables have a 13 feet difference in length. I used to freak out a little but then realized that it's just sound effects. The OCD side of me was still bothered until now, thanks!
When i was laying cable, i just thought it easier to make L and R length the same because of wire management. It had nothing to do with sound quality but more to do with aesthetics.
I'm currently looking at gettiing back into this somewhat, over decades of magazines and reviews I tried many cables, when I started out i simply bought cables, and connected it to the amp, then ran and terminated at the speaker, even if it meant meters of difference, later in audio it was always buying pairs, with my sitting room usually going with 5m runs due to equipment layout. I am contemplating selling all my current cables and going for basic studio models from Mogami or such, I simply want very well made cables that do the job they are designed for, and love Neutrik XLR's and spades, and also liked WBT locking RCA's and the old style Neutrik RCA that grounded 1st. If in future my amp is 5m away from the speakers, I am simply going to run two different lengths. Or sit the power amp between the speakers. With stereo XLR or RCA I am not too fussed, but I am wondering if I go for active monitors should I run different length XLR to each speaker.
You're a Mind Reader Gene! I'm wanting to reconfigure my side and rear surrounds and was wondering if it matters the length of one speaker cable running 40ft and the other running 20ft and ect...I got my answer! Thanks Gene🤘
It should be absolute common sense that wire length is not going to affect anything unless we are talking about many thousands of feet. I'm surprised people even have this as a question in their mind. You can use different lengths, it has absolutely no effect whatsoever. Electricity on wire travels at 70% the speed of light.
Wow Jean I’ve been watching you for a long time and I always find something to take away but I am a two channel guy. However your argument and data is very clear thank you for putting this together. The shirt though ☺️
Those of us who are OCD, even if we know the gospel of electronics, will still use cable of equal length . If for no other reason, it contributes to a restful nights sleep knowing that their is equilibrium in the system.
I have built a couple of TML loudspeakers. Dynadio, Visa, Peerless and KEF. Used my friends impedance meter he created and GRENANDER LOUDSPEAKER LAB. Supra cables. I don't care today but in the eighties I used same length.
I've simply kept the surround speaker cables the same length, as they're going along the same wall, but then for one of them it takes a corner, going along the back wall, to the other speaker. - It's not that far, but I've still just "added" that extra length that the far one has to the nearer (to the amp) one to be sure, especially because I'm also at lower levels, for which small signal-differences might be more noticeable (?), and even THEN I somehow had to slightly balance the volume on the received to the long one. - And the extra length wasn't a huge cost because I simply bought some higher-quality "normal" audio cable, as in nothing boutique (I think it's Sommer Cable), and a nice sturdy thickness that's not too much but not too thin. - So I keep everything very balanced and reasonable. But technically, all is pretty much "equal". I'm also going to replace all speakers with some slightly better quality equivalents since I set up what is still there now, which also have terminal-posts rather than those clampy ones. So I might get a better connection with less potential loss (that MIGHT currently be present) as well, especially since I've noticed those clamps weren't all at the same tightness, and you probably can't do anything about that. They're quite horrible, but it's just a fact that most of the "cheaper" ones come/came with those terminals. It's a little different these days, even for "entry level" stuff from companies that know what they're doing. - Polk to the rescue in this case.
This was a big thing when I built my dedicated theater in 2002 when there was no room correction. I probably have over 75' of wasted cable length rolled up in my ceiling as every cable is within 1 cm. I am just too lazy to open it up to save it all.
I actually did this many years ago. I figured it couldn't hurt. But my receiver was in the middle of the speakers, so I just made them the same length. I think now I have one surround cable about 15ft longer. I sleep fine at night.
Hi, quick question loosely tied to cable length. I currently have a 5.1.2 setup, which option would improve the audio experience the most, adding 2 rear speakers (7.1.2) or adding 2 additional ceiling speakers (5.1.4)? Thanks
I just have one question, what about transformer switching and the 50/60hz alternating current frequency, surely they can cause audible interference. I was always under the impression this is why we use balanced cables in a studio for example?
Thank you for this very useful and clarifying video. I heard also someone say that speaker cables should never be excessively long and coiled in a circle. Would that have an impact on the signal transmission?
Hooray Gene on the Emerson, Lake and Palmer reference. So love that group. Keep dispelling the BS marketers make to sell cables. What a crock! Made irregular length cables for customers for years. No huge lengths. Way less than 30’. It isn’t going to matter at that length like you say. Marketers will say anything to sell any product, but audio is full of mystics and hoodo! No more snake oil Gene! Keep preaching the truth!
If the amp is under 50 damping factor is not making a difference? If I use few of my vintage amps under 50 df I can notice big difference in bass, if I use short cable 3-7 ft to longer cable 12-15 ft...
I always kept my speaker cables the same length so I could move the speakers the same distance from the system when needed. I have a question, what do you all do with the left over cable? Roll it up at the amp, roll it up at the speaker, just leave it streached out on the floor?
There is probably more difference between the gain in the right and left amp channel, so if you luck out and slightly attenuate the hotter channel with a longer cable, it might balance out the amps. Either way the difference would be so miniscule where nobody could discern any difference.
Thanks @Dan Wipper , I appreciate your response. I probably havent made myself clear though. My situation is that I want to move my receiver 2 metres to the left but a couple of my speaker cables have no slack. So if I want to move my receiver I have to either relay those speaker cables (they go through the walls/roof) or I can just solder on another 2 metre cable. I am also a little worried about the shielding. I have those heat shrink tubing but I dont know if they offer shielding... Thanks again
Hey Gene good talk, but you left out the height off floor cables should fly! I've found the ideal height to be a 1973 Orange Tupperware bowl that just came out of the freezer, ideally with the top sealed for fresh airy highs! 😉
I have a quick question: I plan on using an external amp to power my Front LR speakers using my receiver's pre-outs. Will doing so free up more power in the receiver to push my center channel speakers because the receiver no longer needs to power the front LR? I am planning on running RF-7 iii and RC-64 iii on my RX-V6A. But this receiver doesn't have a center channel Pre-out. But it is powerful enough to power that combination with reasonable quality.
@@Audioholics I will. But for now I am using the V6A before the new 8k compatible Aventage A5300 comes out. I want to use my v6a with Front LR external amp. Will that free up some power for center and surrounds?
Those talking about transmission line effect in audio cable are talking about transmission line effect in RF frequency. Instead of random RF noise spectrum, there will be, they claim, peaks in RF noise spectrum due to reflections. Such peaky RF spectrum can, they claim, somehow affect audio frequency signal by intermodulation distortion.
I keep more a less balanced length all over. In my 7.4.2 setup all speakers are evenly placed to balance the sound overall. Hence the wiring is almost same with negligible difference.
I had an issue where my amplifiers are right next to one speaker and far from the other. I spoke to the owner and designer of the company that makes the cables I use. I asked him what issues I would have using 6' cables on one side and 16' on the other. (Bi-amped speakers). His answer is it won't make a difference
What if you have 4 ohm speakers on an older ICE module amp? Can you use a long run of speaker cable to increase resistance to avoid the amp falling apart?
I guess if you used really thin and long cable, then yes. But that would be a lot to make a resistance of a couple of Ohms, and with very high power you may have to consider heat dissipation.
6:45 If a cable is under tension, the atoms of the material are stretched out, changing the resistence. Just make sure both cables have the same tension!
its more of keeping it Better Organized rather maintaining irregular sizes of similar set of speakers. Moreover for a given set it would be very small difference of length difference. keeping it uniform is prescribed in any cabling discipline
I keep them all the same because of my ocd 😅 and because I don’t wanna cut up new speaker wire if I ever move things around. Right now I could have my left at 3ft, center at 8ft and right at 12ft but I just have all 3 cables at 12ft 🤷♂️
I had mismatched speaker cable lengths by accident (my failure to pay attention to what I was doing). Guess what? I DID NOT notice it UNTIL I had to replace them after damaging one. The mismatch was never heard. Also, what is the “story” about the fat cable movement? I’ve used 16 or 18 awg lamp cord for nearly forever without any problems.
Hi there Gene I love the videos you put out over the years and this one included. What old would say about speaker cable wires is make sure they're tight at both the amplifier and your speakers if one speaker wire is loose you could get a lost of audio signal power. Thanks a lot keep up the great work Gene,
Another great video Gene. Thank you. What about ferromagnetic material in the signal path between the amplifier and drivers in the speakers? Will a setup with gold terminals on the amp, O2 free copper speaker cables, brass binding post and copper internal speaker wiring soldered directly to the driver terminals sound better than a system with steel binding post on the amp and speakers, copper cladded aluminum speaker wire and low quality internal wiring connected the drivers through crimp connectors? We can assume the drivers, enclosure, crossovers, amplification and source quality is the same for both scenarios.
It would likely be unmeasurable, and unless you wound the wire around the iron bolt more than twice (creating an inductor) all of these factors would make negligible difference. The only real factor might be resistance due to corrosion of dissimilar metals.
I just read the manual for some Pyle in-wall home theater speakers and the installation manual for them states that "The wires for both speakers should be the same length. If one speaker is placed closer to the amplifier than the other, hide the excess wire behind the wall."
I love how hard this dude freaks out about cables. I think it keeps him up at night. I would never use lamp cord from Home Depot but I would also never spend anything crazy on a speaker cable.
Great topic! my question is would connecting two different gauges of wire together for a run of let’s say twenty feet have a significant effect on the volume of sound?
I find alternating one foot lengths of 8 gauge followed by 23 gauge in a repeating pattern provides a miraculous sound stage. 🙂 Seriously though without more details no one can answer that. What gauges and how are they connected? The connections would probably add more resistance.
Gene, watch the latest This Old House episode on PBS. They are installing ceiling speakers where they are plastered over as the ceiling becomes part of the speaker! Have you ever heard of this?
from my experience, as long as the gauge and length is far inside the required current to drive the speakers, as long as the difference is not incredibly large like one is 3 times longer then the other where one is 100ft. and the other is 300ft or some crazy situation like that., it will basically make no difference. The sound delay will be so small (in the single Nanoseconds delay) that you'd never tell the difference. For instance is one cable is 10ft. and the other is 15ft with like a 14APG wire, it's not going to make a difference at all. Where it can sorta sometimes make a difference is when you are using extremely high gauge wire (like the 28 gauge some home theater in a box set ups come with) and you're starting to hit current limits of the length in one wire or the other. But you can solve that just by using "reasonably large" gauge wire (16 or lower gauge); there is no reason why you should be using wire any smaller then 16 gauge, it's cheap and effective.
Different question, does speakercable degenarate after time ? I'm planning construction on my livingroom and the current cables have been there for roughly 20 year. Should i replace it or can i just re-use it ? Cables i have is 2 x 4mm OFC cable.
In my 40 years of being an audiophile I've gone from QED 79-Strand to QED 42-Strand to standard 2-core power cable from a hardware store for my speakers. Audible differences: nil.
Can you talk about bigger speakers and if they sound better at any volume. Yes you need a bigger room or do you if play lower. My assumption is the bigger cone facing u must immerse you more. Kamal leeds uk
I have a question what about people that are running long length say I get two pairs of 10 gauge cable like a company like blue jeans but I need to run about 60 feet or more what happens if I put the two conductors of 10 gauge cable together that I don't know what that makes not sure that makes an 8 gauge cable is that a good idea four long run so basically I'm purchasing two 10 gauge speaker cables and using that for one speaker or an speaker wall outlet is that possible haven't seen any videos about it so I don't know if this is a stupid question I'm pretty sure there's other people out there that are curious about this to can't be the only one thinking about this like I said I'm curious and wanted to know if it would help for long runs
Hi, I'm an electrical engineer - high speed digital hardware designer. Transmission line affects ONLY matter when the length you're dealing with is > 1/20th of the wavelength of the fundamental (your frequency). So, at 20kHz (the highest typical audible frequency), the speed of electricity traveling on a wire at some large fraction of C (speed of light = 300,000,000 meters/second) and let's assume it's 0.5C to over-exaggerated. That's 150E6 Meters/Sec. 20KHz has a wavelength of 7,500 meters. 7500/20 = 375 Meters.
So, if your cable is more than 4 football fields, then you might want to consider transmission line affects at 20kHz. At 2KHz that's 3,750 meters, at 200Hz, that's 37,500 meters...
Good job Gene calling them on their BS!
thanks I was trying to use the most conservative estimates up to 100kHz to be overly cautious of TL effects and still come up with over 1000ft of cable before it matters. LOL
Ha! I replied before finishing the video. At work we care about 1/20th wavelength, bc we consider 1/10 the length of 1 transition to another transition. at 10Ghz (6 inches per nanosecond - speed of electricity on FR-4 PCB material) we have to worry about distances of 30 thousands of an inch (30 mils) on a PCB board. With an average board thickness of around 60 Mils, even the layer you travel on when you hit a through hole via (like when coming into an SFP+ cage) matters, where the extra unused length of a via in the PCB can become a parallel stub and cause reflections.
It's crazy!
Now consider the newest HDMI with high speed SERDES data rates of 28Gbps, now you care about 10 mils! This is why the quality of the cable has to be SOOO good, because the impedance of those differential pairs on the high speed HDMI lines have to travel on a near perfect transition line. Manufacturers are going to have to start using some high end expensive twin-axe cables with very tightly controlled impedances.
@@JonathanDFielding Hey Jonathan, good article topic if you're interested in writing it up for Audioholics, I will publish. email me info@audioholics.com and put HDMI TL Article in the topic. thanks.
@@JonathanDFielding Looks like we are heading back to the days of $10,000 HDMI cables...
Excellent job Gene and fellow audioholics, so I won't go into detail as yall nailed it. Im an electrical and computer design engineer and it shocks me the bs we see on this topic in our beloved hobby. I love and appreciate these kinds of videos from you Gene as not all people that love this hobby have our or better your knowledge and people can understandably fall for the bs.
Hilarious thumb nail 2 Gene.
Stay safe, Im listening and looking forward to Audioholics in 2021!
You win the thumbnail of the year award 😀
I am Engineer by education, and my field is all numbers and math. Just recently got into speakers and audio. My goodness, the sheer amount of opinions in this area. So glad I found your channel. Thank you for all the work you do Gene.
I am anything but an electrical engineer Gene and didn’t understand 75% of the technical details in the video, but your advice hasn’t led me in a wrong direction yet and I will keep following it!
As a home integrator, I always try to give my customers the same length for the front two channels. Specifically, with towers, or bookshelf speakers. It is not uncommon for people to change their mind on speaker placement at some point in the future. Having an extra 3 feet of cable on one channel is better than having to extend the speaker wire later by 3 feet.
It also reduces a service call because they’ll be able to extend the speaker on their own if needed .
I heard years ago that speaker wire should be the same length and it really made sense but when I got into home theater I started to realize that L&R speakers were farther apart than a center speaker and as was the speaker wire and side surrounds as back surrounds but continued to make sure the wire to each set of speakers were the same. So thanks for freeing my thoughts on this issue.
All my speaker cables are different lengths because of my room. I never once considered to keep them the same length. It crossed my mind when I did the set up, but its been fine for decades.
Hi, Great informative Chanel that speaks the truth.
I am considering changing my speaker cables of different lengths ( 5ft& 16ft ) to canare 4s11 cable chosen from the reviews.
I am clearer now on cable length. Thank you.
Counterquestion: should speaker cable reviews be longer than the cables themselves?
Oof
I think they should be as long as the shorter of the cables, at a minute per foot, in this instance about 9 feet.
I filed down the ends of mine to get them the same.
@@jnagarya519 I agree, maybe we can change TAS reviewing habits together.
@@mikepiontek1550 Use gloves during manipulation! Cold hands can reduce cable length!
I obsess over the details Speaker toe in , distance from walls and corners , I sold audio back in the hey day late 70's to 80's gear. I was told by the senior sales guy that Monster cables and the like makes great profit but its basically snake oil. Thanks for the refresher I also worked at a switch gear mfg learned alot about transmission and distribution of electricity math is over my head for transmission but distribution was easier to comprehend. great video keep the gray matter sharp im just an old audiophile sales guy .
Hahahahaha, I love your thumbnail! Also I really like your Honesty and I trust your word 1000% you are my Source for everything related to my home theater build.
Gene, I gotta believe a fellow SPJC grad! .... That is if my eyes were reading the diploma behind you correctly. Decades ago I installed some speakers for a family friend who could be a bit frugal, he asked about the necessity of matching cable lengths. My answer was if you want to spend more money on cable and labor I'm all for it. Saving money sounded much better to him than anything coming out of his speakers. Thanks for giving me the science to back up common sense. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for this video. I always suspected that speaker cable lenght does not really matter. Great to see the actual science behind it!
I did hear on the forum get equal length speaker cables. So I bought some 12 ft. 12AWG speaker cables 35 bucks each. My Old speaker wires needed upgrade anyway. Monster cable from the late 90's that were probably bent and had problems from furniture on them and various kinks. So it probably fixed that problem. Length doesn't matter unless it's exaggerated. Something new for my wife to learn also. Thanks!
The people who put a finger down sure sell expensive HiFi stuff.
I am already sure about the relationship of the length and resistance of the cable. I only had doubts about the effects of radio frequency, but you clarified it very well. Greetings.
I am just putting my sound system together for our Swing Dancing nights where I will be DJing old Jazz Swing Tracks. We have a soundcraft mixer which we have bought and some Yamaha Active Speakers. The connection between them is XLR. I looked around the internet because I want the best sound I can get. Then I saw the price of some of the cables. I do have a history working in the computer industry where I have always made my own cables which means I am very comfortable and competent with a soldering iron. I've been through so many videos lookign for the best components and where I have landed is on Starquad cable with Neutrik connectors. I've run a few small run cables and so I have proved they work and am now looking at longer cables so I can set the speakers and desk up on a stage. Your videos have been really useful helping me work through the various claims and pseudo science. The Audiophile arena is seductive for someone like me because I am providing a service and obviously want to produce the best sound I can. I also believe in science which makes so much of what you say really welcome. Thanks for all the effort you put into the videos and the information
It easy to understand why bulk wire sellers advise the lengths "should be the same" using incredibly simple math. If a customer needs 3 feet for their left speaker and 20 ft. for the R, which makes the seller more money? Selling them 23 ft or 40ft. ?
Exactly what I have always thought. My amp is almost directly under left speaker whilst the right is 5m away (not ideal I know!) and the cable has to run outside and around a chimney breast. When I initially installed them I used some generic speaker cables and I thought it sounded ok. Then my friend had a reel of quality cable left over from a job & so I replaced my cables & the results were amazing. But we were comparing cheap with good quality. As for left & right, I can’t tell any difference with the quality cable.
I’m running Cambridge Azur 540a amp, Wharfedale Diamond 220 with a 20+ year old Yamaha 8 inch sub.
Thank you for this video. One more awesome video of yours! I just got off the phone with Polk Audio customer support guy and he has been insisting on me using the same cable lengths for Left and Right channels as well as Centre. I would need to make one wire approximately 6-8 feet longer than needed and coil excess to make them of equal lengths. Now I see that I can not by any means see any difference with 14 Gauge wire in my living room setup even if I have 20 feet difference between cable lengths. I did already have to run quite a bit of 12 Gauge wire through basement to the rear speakers and trying to add all the same length to the front right speaker sitting 4 feet apart from receiver would be insane waste of wire and space.
That’s consistent with what Paul Speltz told me when I purchased level 3 Anticable from him- he recommended to just keep the shorter speaker wire at or above 50 percent of the longer wire but that it wasn’t a death blow if it were even shorter. So my right speaker cable is 17 feet and my left speaker cable is 10. Thx for a great video.
Gene, You have just beautifully described what I have always told my friends that are new to the hobby.
Is there a MEASUREABLE difference? Yes, I'm sure that with sufficiently sensitive test equipment you could measure a difference.
Is there a perceptible difference? Mostly Nope....Just don't worry about it, spend your money on better equipment and/or room treatments.
You produce the best videos about audio ever, not that I rally understand dB's but some day I'll get there. The only think I've done is to use the proper gage according to distance. My ear is not really that discernible to know that one cable is thicker or longer than the other. Thank you so much for all the education you give us.
Had always used same length cables because that's just how it worked out. When setting up my listening room in a new configuration it made more sense for one cable to be about 6 feet longer than the other. At first I didn't want to do it and was just going to leave 6 feet of slack on the "shorter" run. In the end it seemed like a reasonable thing to try with my modestly priced cable choice so I went with 2 different lengths. I couldn't tell any difference so they stayed unequal. Still that way years later.
A question along the same lines, along with cable length, 20 years when I built my dedicated theater, everyone said that every connection reduced sound quality. I have connections behind every speaker to plug speaker cable into the wall and would like to clean up behind my rack and have a wall plug in to plug in all my speaker cables from my equipment into a wall instead of wad of cables coming out of vaccuum tube hanging out of of my ceiling behind the rack that has full rear accessibility.
just like to say thanks Gene as ive just purchased a set of 3m kimber kable speaker cables. they have opened the sound ,made it sound crisp and clear and a much more life like sound. i had beldon before.and this 12 strand kimber is much better.i cant see me changing for anything else.i paid £ 100!
Happy New Year Gene...You are appreciated!
Gene: I do keep my Front LR cables same length, right now I am using about 12 feet per side. Although in reality I would only need 12 and about 5. But the reason is not fantasy, its practicality. If I decide to move the system to another location in the house, the 12' length should work, and if at that location I may need 8 and 8. So when I got the cable I did cut 2 equal lengths and prepared all 4 ends the same not knowing which side was what.
As an old school ham radio operator this was a great discussion.
Thank you for reassuring what I had experimented with and didn't hear a difference. Very good video. My cables are way to long but I'd rather have extra so I can move around.
And if they were too short you wouldn't hear anything.
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Thanks for the video! I'll be running 14 gauge wire to the left channel at about 22 ft and the right channel at 11 ft from a 210 watt Parasound Amp to Klipsch Forte I believe 8 ohms. Might be able to get away with 16 gauge but figure all copper 14 to play it safe. I'm 56 so I'm sure it will be good enough. I am still hanging on to wired connections like these meanwhile everyone I know says to go cordless, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth with everything. BT for the radio in the bathroom or garage but cmon,....BT still cant match wired system anymore than Wi-Fi can match a hard wire to an RJ45.
I've also heard that speaker cables next to power cables cause interference. On my small system, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
It’s possible..... I would be more worried about signal cables ran with power.
This can be an issue with mobile audio.
It seems like damn near any noise is rare in home audio.... when there is, it’s often bad inputs/outputs
I've always just cut the speaker cords the same length. I don't do it for any transmission effect or distance delay. I did it for aethetics. And my OCD. :)
I always make my speaker cables the same length, usually to allow the speakers to be anywhere in the room. No point in making them the exact length then have a room move round and need to make the new cables to fit the new locations. Also if you are OCD then same length matters. While we are on the subject of cable, my friend has a HiFi shop and lent me a lot of monies worth of cables. Now I have a reasonable system and I tried the cables for a week, could I hear a difference, hmm possibly, was it better, well if I had bought them it would have been better as how could I admit anything else, but in any case, I returned the cable. On my way home I stopped off at the shops and bought a nice bottle of wine, later I can honestly say that after 2 glasses of said wine my system sounded excellent.
So do you have any suggestions good banana plugs? Like brand or material they should be made of.
QED Airloc😉😉😉
Because of necessity my rear surround speaker cables have a 13 feet difference in length. I used to freak out a little but then realized that it's just sound effects. The OCD side of me was still bothered until now, thanks!
When i was laying cable, i just thought it easier to make L and R length the same because of wire management. It had nothing to do with sound quality but more to do with aesthetics.
I'm currently looking at gettiing back into this somewhat, over decades of magazines and reviews I tried many cables, when I started out i simply bought cables, and connected it to the amp, then ran and terminated at the speaker, even if it meant meters of difference, later in audio it was always buying pairs, with my sitting room usually going with 5m runs due to equipment layout.
I am contemplating selling all my current cables and going for basic studio models from Mogami or such, I simply want very well made cables that do the job they are designed for, and love Neutrik XLR's and spades, and also liked WBT locking RCA's and the old style Neutrik RCA that grounded 1st.
If in future my amp is 5m away from the speakers, I am simply going to run two different lengths. Or sit the power amp between the speakers. With stereo XLR or RCA I am not too fussed, but I am wondering if I go for active monitors should I run different length XLR to each speaker.
Love it Gene. Your videos always make sense and soo much fun to watch. Thank you again for educating us. 👍🏻
At 0:37, are we building a model train layout?
You're a Mind Reader Gene! I'm wanting to reconfigure my side and rear surrounds and was wondering if it matters the length of one speaker cable running 40ft and the other running 20ft and ect...I got my answer! Thanks Gene🤘
It should be absolute common sense that wire length is not going to affect anything unless we are talking about many thousands of feet. I'm surprised people even have this as a question in their mind. You can use different lengths, it has absolutely no effect whatsoever. Electricity on wire travels at 70% the speed of light.
@@tac6044 Thank you Tac!!! Have good one👍
Wow Jean I’ve been watching you for a long time and I always find something to take away but I am a two channel guy. However your argument and data is very clear thank you for putting this together.
The shirt though ☺️
Those of us who are OCD, even if we know the gospel of electronics, will still use cable of equal length . If for no other reason, it contributes to a restful nights sleep knowing that their is equilibrium in the system.
I have built a couple of TML loudspeakers. Dynadio, Visa, Peerless and KEF. Used my friends impedance meter he created and GRENANDER LOUDSPEAKER LAB. Supra cables. I don't care today but in the eighties I used same length.
I've simply kept the surround speaker cables the same length, as they're going along the same wall, but then for one of them it takes a corner, going along the back wall, to the other speaker. - It's not that far, but I've still just "added" that extra length that the far one has to the nearer (to the amp) one to be sure, especially because I'm also at lower levels, for which small signal-differences might be more noticeable (?), and even THEN I somehow had to slightly balance the volume on the received to the long one. - And the extra length wasn't a huge cost because I simply bought some higher-quality "normal" audio cable, as in nothing boutique (I think it's Sommer Cable), and a nice sturdy thickness that's not too much but not too thin. - So I keep everything very balanced and reasonable. But technically, all is pretty much "equal".
I'm also going to replace all speakers with some slightly better quality equivalents since I set up what is still there now, which also have terminal-posts rather than those clampy ones. So I might get a better connection with less potential loss (that MIGHT currently be present) as well, especially since I've noticed those clamps weren't all at the same tightness, and you probably can't do anything about that. They're quite horrible, but it's just a fact that most of the "cheaper" ones come/came with those terminals. It's a little different these days, even for "entry level" stuff from companies that know what they're doing. - Polk to the rescue in this case.
This was a big thing when I built my dedicated theater in 2002 when there was no room correction. I probably have over 75' of wasted cable length rolled up in my ceiling as every cable is within 1 cm. I am just too lazy to open it up to save it all.
I actually did this many years ago. I figured it couldn't hurt. But my receiver was in the middle of the speakers, so I just made them the same length. I think now I have one surround cable about 15ft longer. I sleep fine at night.
Glad someone is talking sense in the audio world.
Hi, quick question loosely tied to cable length. I currently have a 5.1.2 setup, which option would improve the audio experience the most, adding 2 rear speakers (7.1.2) or adding 2 additional ceiling speakers (5.1.4)? Thanks
I just have one question, what about transformer switching and the 50/60hz alternating current frequency, surely they can cause audible interference. I was always under the impression this is why we use balanced cables in a studio for example?
Gene, seems like you've learned a lot over the years. Video quality excellent, sound quality excellent!😬😇 Very well put together video.
Thank you for this very useful and clarifying video. I heard also someone say that speaker cables should never be excessively long and coiled in a circle. Would that have an impact on the signal transmission?
Hooray Gene on the Emerson, Lake and Palmer reference. So love that group. Keep dispelling the BS marketers make to sell cables. What a crock! Made irregular length cables for customers for years. No huge lengths. Way less than 30’. It isn’t going to matter at that length like you say. Marketers will say anything to sell any product, but audio is full of mystics and hoodo! No more snake oil Gene! Keep preaching the truth!
If the amp is under 50 damping factor is not making a difference? If I use few of my vintage amps under 50 df I can notice big difference in bass, if I use short cable 3-7 ft to longer cable 12-15 ft...
Great video, clear and articulate. Thoughts on do it yourself replacement of banana plugs?
I always kept my speaker cables the same length so I could move the speakers the same distance from the system when needed. I have a question, what do you all do with the left over cable? Roll it up at the amp, roll it up at the speaker, just leave it streached out on the floor?
I guess rolling it up would create a tiny bit of inductance :) But probably negligible for a couple of loose turns
9.8.4 Dolby Atmos System
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There is probably more difference between the gain in the right and left amp channel, so if you luck out and slightly attenuate the hotter channel with a longer cable, it might balance out the amps. Either way the difference would be so miniscule where nobody could discern any difference.
Great information. Very useful and interesting. Thanks!
If you solder two speaker cables of the same gauge together would you have reduced quality.
Thanks @Dan Wipper , I appreciate your response. I probably havent made myself clear though. My situation is that I want to move my receiver 2 metres to the left but a couple of my speaker cables have no slack. So if I want to move my receiver I have to either relay those speaker cables (they go through the walls/roof) or I can just solder on another 2 metre cable. I am also a little worried about the shielding. I have those heat shrink tubing but I dont know if they offer shielding... Thanks again
Hey Gene good talk, but you left out the height off floor cables should fly! I've found the ideal height to be a 1973 Orange Tupperware bowl that just came out of the freezer, ideally with the top sealed for fresh airy highs! 😉
I have a quick question: I plan on using an external amp to power my Front LR speakers using my receiver's pre-outs. Will doing so free up more power in the receiver to push my center channel speakers because the receiver no longer needs to power the front LR? I am planning on running RF-7 iii and RC-64 iii on my RX-V6A. But this receiver doesn't have a center channel Pre-out. But it is powerful enough to power that combination with reasonable quality.
Go with a higher end unit with preouts.
@@Audioholics I will. But for now I am using the V6A before the new 8k compatible Aventage A5300 comes out. I want to use my v6a with Front LR external amp. Will that free up some power for center and surrounds?
Those talking about transmission line effect in audio cable are talking about transmission line effect in RF frequency. Instead of random RF noise spectrum, there will be, they claim, peaks in RF noise spectrum due to reflections. Such peaky RF spectrum can, they claim, somehow affect audio frequency signal by intermodulation distortion.
My speaker cables are 3 m each and I’m more than happy with that.
I have no losses on those cables as far as I can tell.
Because of my need to run one of my cables under the floor, I have one 8 ft, and one 30 ft run. It does not matter. The speed of light is really fast!
I keep more a less balanced length all over. In my 7.4.2 setup all speakers are evenly placed to balance the sound overall. Hence the wiring is almost same with negligible difference.
I had an issue where my amplifiers are right next to one speaker and far from the other. I spoke to the owner and designer of the company that makes the cables I use. I asked him what issues I would have using 6' cables on one side and 16' on the other. (Bi-amped speakers). His answer is it won't make a difference
What if you have 4 ohm speakers on an older ICE module amp? Can you use a long run of speaker cable to increase resistance to avoid the amp falling apart?
I guess if you used really thin and long cable, then yes. But that would be a lot to make a resistance of a couple of Ohms, and with very high power you may have to consider heat dissipation.
@@RennieAsh
I ended up upgrading to a newer Pioneer Elite SC-57 with the class D D3 amps section which is stable at 4 ohm loads.
What a great idea !!! about the membership. I will subscribe to that one. Thanks again
At the beginning I did thought that it matter, but after watching your Videos I became a Man of Culture😁👍🏼
Might be a stupid question. But what if I use solid cable like for houses or welding cable with finer strands as speaker cable?
Fantastic explanation. But excellent video quality would be in 4K. 1080p is somewhat good. Maybe that is coming in future for AH
6:45 If a cable is under tension, the atoms of the material are stretched out, changing the resistence. Just make sure both cables have the same tension!
its more of keeping it Better Organized rather maintaining irregular sizes of similar set of speakers. Moreover for a given set it would be very small difference of length difference. keeping it uniform is prescribed in any cabling discipline
I keep them all the same because of my ocd 😅 and because I don’t wanna cut up new speaker wire if I ever move things around. Right now I could have my left at 3ft, center at 8ft and right at 12ft but I just have all 3 cables at 12ft 🤷♂️
This is great information! Does the same principal apply to a tube amplifier? I'm assuming yes?
Thank you for the info. Your videos are very informative.
I had mismatched speaker cable lengths by accident (my failure to pay attention to what I was doing). Guess what? I DID NOT notice it UNTIL I had to replace them after damaging one. The mismatch was never heard. Also, what is the “story” about the fat cable movement? I’ve used 16 or 18 awg lamp cord for nearly forever without any problems.
Hi there Gene I love the videos you put out over the years and this one included. What old would say about speaker cable wires is make sure they're tight at both the amplifier and your speakers if one speaker wire is loose you could get a lost of audio signal power. Thanks a lot keep up the great work Gene,
Anyone know if cable length matters for source component interconnects? Like connecting amps to a Pre-Pro via XLR or RCA
what about uneven speaker response curve and passive crossover points shifting do to resistance ?
Great topic and well explained!
Another great video Gene. Thank you.
What about ferromagnetic material in the signal path between the amplifier and drivers in the speakers? Will a setup with gold terminals on the amp, O2 free copper speaker cables, brass binding post and copper internal speaker wiring soldered directly to the driver terminals sound better than a system with steel binding post on the amp and speakers, copper cladded aluminum speaker wire and low quality internal wiring connected the drivers through crimp connectors? We can assume the drivers, enclosure, crossovers, amplification and source quality is the same for both scenarios.
Would like to know this as well. Stick a large bolt in the middle of the signal path and see if it makes a difference.
It would likely be unmeasurable, and unless you wound the wire around the iron bolt more than twice (creating an inductor) all of these factors would make negligible difference. The only real factor might be resistance due to corrosion of dissimilar metals.
Happy New Year! Resistance is not futile!
I just read the manual for some Pyle in-wall home theater speakers and the installation manual for them states that
"The wires for both speakers should be the same length. If one speaker is placed closer to the amplifier than the other, hide the excess wire behind the wall."
I love how hard this dude freaks out about cables. I think it keeps him up at night. I would never use lamp cord from Home Depot but I would also never spend anything crazy on a speaker cable.
Great topic! my question is would connecting two different gauges of wire together for a run of let’s say twenty feet have a significant effect on the volume of sound?
I find alternating one foot lengths of 8 gauge followed by 23 gauge in a repeating pattern provides a miraculous sound stage. 🙂 Seriously though without more details no one can answer that. What gauges and how are they connected? The connections would probably add more resistance.
Thanks Gene, very good explanation. .
Gene, watch the latest This Old House episode on PBS. They are installing ceiling speakers where they are plastered over as the ceiling becomes part of the speaker! Have you ever heard of this?
Great video... does coiling up extra speaker cable affect sound?
Just in case you missed it, the answer is no. He did another video on that topic that I saw recently.
from my experience, as long as the gauge and length is far inside the required current to drive the speakers, as long as the difference is not incredibly large like one is 3 times longer then the other where one is 100ft. and the other is 300ft or some crazy situation like that., it will basically make no difference. The sound delay will be so small (in the single Nanoseconds delay) that you'd never tell the difference. For instance is one cable is 10ft. and the other is 15ft with like a 14APG wire, it's not going to make a difference at all. Where it can sorta sometimes make a difference is when you are using extremely high gauge wire (like the 28 gauge some home theater in a box set ups come with) and you're starting to hit current limits of the length in one wire or the other. But you can solve that just by using "reasonably large" gauge wire (16 or lower gauge); there is no reason why you should be using wire any smaller then 16 gauge, it's cheap and effective.
You are so right. thanks for clear information and great video.
Different question, does speakercable degenarate after time ? I'm planning construction on my livingroom and the current cables have been there for roughly 20 year. Should i replace it or can i just re-use it ? Cables i have is 2 x 4mm OFC cable.
If it was OFC cable 20 years ago, it won't be now but it will be fine, just go ahread and use it.
In my 40 years of being an audiophile I've gone from QED 79-Strand to QED 42-Strand to standard 2-core power cable from a hardware store for my speakers. Audible differences: nil.
Thanks for the great information / advice
This video needs to be seen by a LOT of audiophiles
You must of been reading my mind Gene cause I was just thinking about this.
Can you talk about bigger speakers and if they sound better at any volume. Yes you need a bigger room or do you if play lower. My assumption is the bigger cone facing u must immerse you more. Kamal leeds uk
I have a question what about people that are running long length say I get two pairs of 10 gauge cable like a company like blue jeans but I need to run about 60 feet or more what happens if I put the two conductors of 10 gauge cable together that I don't know what that makes not sure that makes an 8 gauge cable is that a good idea four long run so basically I'm purchasing two 10 gauge speaker cables and using that for one speaker or an speaker wall outlet is that possible haven't seen any videos about it so I don't know if this is a stupid question I'm pretty sure there's other people out there that are curious about this to can't be the only one thinking about this like I said I'm curious and wanted to know if it would help for long runs
So you have listen to a 6meter and 3 meter cable and heard no difference in imaging compared to a set of the same length?
But we definitely need to float speaker cables above the ground on speaker cable lifters right? 😊