🎲🦸Beyond D&D: Marvel Super Heroes RPG! 🐉🦸♀️
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2024
- Fantasy and Science-Fiction settings dominated early tabletop RPGs, but it wasn't long before creators began exploring the superhero genre. TSR was not the first publisher to enter the Superhero RPG category, but their 1984 entry, the Marvel Super Heroes Heroic Roleplaying Game, was an instant hit, quickly out-selling other superhero RPGs like Villains & Vigilantes and Champions. I talk about the creators of all these games, how the Marvel license came to TSR, and the legacy of the "Universal Table" on the future of TSR's game design.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 Introduction
2:20 DaveCon 2024 Apppearance
4:03 Superhero RPGs
5:41 Superhero 44
10:54 Villains & Vigilantes
17:04 Champions
26:05 Marvel FASERIP
1:04:58 The Universal Table
1:17:50 Adventures and Comics
1:21:00 The Marvel Phile
1:23:50 Comics Art
1:29:39 Wrap-Up
1:31:20 Bonus Content
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I wouldn't worry about the people complaining about the length of videos or the rambling. Your channel is pretty unique in this hobby.
Let them find channels to fit their tastes. Stay true to yourself.
I actually looked at the comments and I don't see the comments on rambling as complaints -- just an observation - everyone I think wants this channel to do well. I do. The people on this channel that post for the most part are very friendly -- and provide really good comments -- so this is a definite good set of subscribers to have for a channel. This is a good channel with good content - but you can call it "conversational style" if you like, but it is rambling, there is a ton of repetition and lots of branches -- some detours I find interesting (I like the personal stories) but hen some detours I don't. Now does it hurt the channel, who really knows? - this channel has done pretty well with this approach 8.5K subscribers is pretty good for just a year at this. So, numbers are impressive I'd say. I argue however this channel could do better, and it's actually not the rambling so much, but that the rambling leads to very long videos.
I will definitely agree with you - this is a unique channel. I've been watching TTRPG videos on TH-cam since 2012 (wasn't that much available back then) - and sadly some channels I really liked aren't around anymore. There is a pretty well-established TH-camr, called Captcorajus, that I really like, that used to do a lot of historical TSR stuff, but he doesn't do that much of it anymore -- so yes I do like this kind of content, especially since I started playing OD&D in 1977, so very easy to relate to someone that started playing a few years later than I did, in 1981 if I remember correctly. Main difference is I was a paper boy, so funded my TTRPG hobby by delivering newspapers, instead of having a generous Mom. 😂 and my dad always told me playing D&D was a waste of time - yeah, I just ignored that. 🙂 I think Daddy Rolled a 1 is actually one of the oldest TTRPG TH-camrs that I know -- I love following older TTRPG TH-camrs for that reason - the stories is what I really like -- as the actual history -- you can easily get -- just go read "Playing at the World", "Designers & Dragons", and a bunch of books on the history of TSR, and Wikipedia -- it's the "stories" that make this channel good.
I love hearing about the topic's background and your experiences. I can get dull facts from Wikipedia. Keep on talking!
@@jayp8786 I totally agree with you! Experiences, background, etc. are what make Daddy Rolled a 1 content good and interesting! Yes, all the historical facts that Daddy rolled a 1 presents in his videos are very easily available via Wikipedia and other sources like Peterson's seminal "Playing at the World" book (yeah, an amazing book -- but a huge beast of a book -- actually have read it cover to cover, and it's not for the faint of heart). 😂 Yes -- agreed -- the value is in making this content more interesting and consumable, which yes - this channel does.
There was a TH-camr that I really liked that had this amazing 2nd Ed and 3rd Ed D&D collection that sadly passed away during COVID, loved his videos -- he started in the early 80s like Daddy rolled a 1 -- same thing - I loved his videos because of the stories he told about growing up playing TTRPGs, which I can totally relate to. Liked his stuff -- because he knew a TON about AD&D 2nd Ed which is usually a weak area for most people (and not my strong suite either -- I played some 2nd Ed in the 90s -- but I'd graduated college and didn't play as much in the 90s as I did in the late 70s and 80s).
I'm trying to put together a massive retrospective for Dungeons and Dragons in particular, and ttrpgs in general. If anything, I wish you had MORE content I could cite!
In my opinion, this game system is the best superhero RPG that was ever invented. Topped only by Advanced Marvel Superheroes which was essentially the exact same game with more meat in it, and that could really go into detail on cosmic level beings. My friends and I loved this game so much that I ran a 10 year long campaign in it. Our world diverged from the comics so much that actual Marvel Comics characters were rarely needed and just showed up for cameos. The really great thing about this was hero creation, especially in Advanced Marvel Superheroes. They had charts in there for every main stat, Fighting, Agility, Strength, Endurance, Reason, Intuition, and Psyche. And they had LOTS of examples of what each rank in each stat represented. This enabled us to just... create characters right off the top of our heads instead of rolling up "Random hero creation" type characters. It made the game REALLY REALLY easy to introduce new players to. You could just ask the player to come up with a hero in his head and describe him/her. Then, with just asking a few questions, and looking at the charts that told you what each rank represented in each stat, you could just EASILY put the player's character idea to paper. I STILL TO THIS DAY, have all my books for this game, and it's a BIG stack. And I still have the several binders worth of characters, both heroes, villains, and side character, that we made. For us, unlike D&D which was a game of exploration, and discovery, Marvel Superheroes was instead a game of CHARACTERS. Instead of creating worlds and maps and everything that took up all our time in D&D, 90% of our focus was just... creating stacks and stacks and stacks of binders filled with cool characters, anything we could come up with, no matter how outlandish or dumb. We would just create it, categorize it by hero, hero group, villain, villain group, and side character, and their group affiliations. It was all about having hundreds of fun, and amazing characters and it really focused and pushed our imaginations to come up with new, novel, characters. To this day, I still LOVE the HELL out of this game. I can't get enough of it. You can probably really tell how much I love it from this post. This game, probably more than even D&D holds a very special place in the hearts of me and my friends.
I concur: the different ability scores were well explained: I remember (haven't read it since the 80s) finding it reasonable that Spiderman should be able to lift and perhaps throw a car but not a plane, for example.
I also share your view of the focus of this type of game: making characters.
I should not have sold my Advanced MSH and Children of the Atom stuff a few years ago, should I? Rats.
Advanced was so much better than the original. FASERIP!
@@owenbloomfield1177 WE STILL PLAY, EVERY OTHER WEEK1
See we LOVED the random heroes, especially after Skills & Powers. We still talk about my friend’s 2-dimensional darkforce vegetable cat with prehensile hair. 😅
I personally like your rambling intros 😊
Thank you! I think I'm pretty good at rambling! 😀
But in all seriousness, I appreciate you watching and commenting. Thanks!
I second this comment. I was hooked by the historical dives into these games and I enjoyed “12 minutes” of precursor to Boot Hill.
@@daddyrolleda1 Yes -- we don't mind the rambling. Your videos are good. When I watch your videos I usually multitask and easily can just filter out the rambling and focus on the good bits. You do realize though you'd build up a larger subscriber base though if you did stay more in the 15 min to 30 min range on your videos. I'm a little selective on topics when I see videos are over 60 min -- so don't watch all your videos, probably about 1/3 of them. I'd probably watch all your stuff if they were shorter. Keep doing what you like -- though -- really just a choice you need to make. The fact that you have almost 9K subscribers with your rambling is actually pretty impressive.
Thank you so much! I appreciate that!
Thank you so much for this feedback, @quantus5875! I really appreciate it. It's definitely something to think about. When I started my channel, you'll see that most of my videos were in that ~15-20 minutes range, but something happened around the time I made the "Assassins, Monks and Druids" video and since then, the length has crept up more and more.
One thing I was conscious of was in my two-part video on the History of Alignments & Planes in D&D, the second video got about 22% fewer views than the first, so I thought maybe in hindsight it would've been better to just make it a longer video. I also noticed as time went on that while my video lengths were getting longer, my views were staying relatively the same, so it didn't seem to be affecting things. However, part of that is because as time went on, I got more followers so it's natural that more people were exposed to them.
This has given me a lot to think about. I have an idea for another video that would be a whopper in terms of length and I'm now thinking about now I can break it up into shorter segments but perhaps go more in depth on each issue and see what happens. It could be a test. And then I could return to make maybe one "super long form" video a month, or every other week or something.
Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to share your thoughts. It's very helpful.
Please don't change your format. There's a place for a tighter format and punchier videos, but I like how you present information.
I think your format is a more laid back and detail oriented, which I think is fantastic. Great for educating ourselves on the complex world of roleplaying games, and all the connective tissue between.
It is interesting that a roleplaying game got you into the comic hobby.
Don't listen to anyone complaining about you being unfocused because you are giving more information and telling a story at the same time which is one of your strengths. Keep doing your videos the same way.
Thank you so much for this comment! I really appreciate your support. Cheers!
There is a Kickstarter running right now called Heroic!
It's an updated version of the rules.
I still run the 80s Marvel Super Hero game (technically the advanced version that went into the early 90s) probably for about 3-4 months every year or two. I love the random die rolls for character creation although I reverse engineered the tables using the actual percentages from all the existing example characters (I owned all the handbooks by the mid 90s and was in a probability college class). I do let people drop powers they don't want to boost the power rank of their remaining powers so that helps focus the character to a manageable concept. Also I allow targets that aren't surprised to have a Agility roll to try to dodge oncoming attacks. Beat the color of the attack? You dodge it. Match the color? You reduce the damage by -2CS. Weaker color? No dodge.
I love hearing about hacks like this, and also that you still play the game. Fantastic! (Amazing?).
Thank you for sharing, and for watching and commenting. Cheers!
Excellent house rules
Sounds like you're in for quite a treat soon. Getting to play with Dave Wesely and Bob Meyer at Gary Con last month was easily some of the most enjoyable and enlightening gaming I've ever experienced. I just did it and I still envy you!
Yes! I'm so glad to hear that! It's one of the main reasons I'm going. I wish I could've swung both Cons this year, but it wasn't feasible. Hopefully next year I can go t GaryCon. Maybe I'll see you there!
I like your longer format videos. My friends and I are about the same age as you and we either talk about music or D&D for hours and hours. The history and tangents about old school gaming deserve videos like this. I know when I was a kid there was this mythic lore behind this game and the modules, we didn't have the internet, fast forward 40 years later and to channels and resources such as your channel and it's rabbit hole city. Just do you. You're very organic and give the material the attention it deserves. Who knows you might be known as the Bob Roth of D&D history one day ;)
Nothing like coming home after a stressful day and having a channel like this to unwind to.
I love your drawings and the old school style of comic book art. I also appreciate the changes in style that continue to distinguish each era of artwork.
I really appreciate you saying that! Thanks, and cheers!
I've played a lot of Comic Book RPGs and each is wonderful in its own way. Jeff's design for Marvel was the best at the time and remains my favorite to this day. My only complaint is...how the heck did he leave off FANTASTIC and UNCANNY from the ranks? I got to work on the first few volumes of the Gamers' Handbook and really enjoyed them. I also think it's worth noting that the folks who worked on Marvel (at least in-house) embrace this line with all their hearts - it was clearly a labor of love for them.
1. Like Zepllin said, "RAMBLE ON!" I enjoy your style A LOT! 2. Those are the dice that came with the Marvel game. 3. I played it for an entire summer with my dad while visiting for the summer. Great memories.
That is such a great memory to have of playing the game with your dad!
And you picked one of my favorite Zeppelin songs!
Thanks so much for your support. Cheers!
I was introduced to Champions 1st edition at a sci-fi/fantasy convention the first weekend in April, 1982. My friends and I played that game more than any other RPG for the next 2-3 years, even more than D&D. I loved it because you could build the kind of character that you wanted (point buy) rather than leaving stats and powers up to random dice rolls, and you didn't need 4+ players like D&D to fulfill all of the roles of the party. I have revisited it over the years, most recently with 5th edition about 12 years ago. The Hero System was neat back in the day but it's too math-heavy for my old brain now. I did like the Villains & Vigilantes adventure scenarios better than Hero's adventures. I think the box sets came with white crayons for you to fill in the die numbers. Sadly, by the time the Marvel Super-Heroes RPG came along, I was too busy with college to play and never got into it.
Your low-tech rambling videos are exactly as they should be. Feels like I’m at the house of an uncle who has a history with and passion for a hobby I have a passion for and gushes about it whenever we’re together. It’s a great angle to have that I don’t see in any other TH-camrs in this sphere.
That's such a nice compliment. I really appreciate it! Thank you for taking the time to write this note of support. Cheers!
Great video and for whatever it's worth I enjoy the long meandering intros. It makes it feel like a relaxed chat which I enjoy listening to in the background. And just an FYI I believe the "Dave" in DaveCon is meant to include three Daves; Arneson, Wesely and Megarry as opposed to just Arneson. In either case I'll be there in a few weeks so it will be fun to see you in person. 🙂
Oh wow - of course that totally makes sense, but I just connected it with Arneson, for whatever reason!
Thanks for watching and appreciating my "conversational tone" and I look forward to meeting you. Cheers!
Agreed
Yeah, and I remember that Gamma World video where you actually spent more time talking about Metamorphosis Alpha than talking about Gamma World! 😂
Whoops! Yes, because I don't script my videos (but I do make bullet-point notes) sometimes I spend a lot of time upfront and then when I get to the "main" part, I realize, "Shoot, the video is already 45 minutes long!" and I'll sometimes go quickly over the main topic. It's something I need to be aware of, for sure. Thanks for the input!
I love how you nitpick the dates on the back…this is the best.
Jeff Dee? Holy shit! I've seen this guy on The atheist experience quite a bit a few years ago!
Yes, he is quite prolific there from what I understand!
@@daddyrolleda1 He's still writing, he's currently working on a TTRPG where you play Gods. He's on Facebook and talks about it quite a bit.
About a decade ago I ran across AE and noticed the one guy had the same name as one of my favorite D&D artists. I found out he was one and the same. He is still designing games and doing artwork.
I was coming down here to make this EXACT statement. XD
oh wow the Liberty Legion adventure. to live through that module you need a few extra heroes. those villains are too tough!
Joined the club. The love of heroes is inspiring,who doesn't want to fly,walk through walks. Shrug of bullits.
It's uncanny how much of our lives ran parallel. I was out in rural Louisiana during that same time period, experiencing the lack of access to anything other than TSR and whatever comics were at our little drug store. My first comic was X-Men #193 and #196 and I had zero idea who any of them were. I really dug Marvel Super Heroes when we got it, and was pretty intimidated by Champions when we discovered it.
Finally! Marvel TSR! I grew up with this game, the character creation aspect is my all time favorite. I played it with my friends in a Secret Wars format. We’d all roll a team of characters & battle royal to the death on a city map. So much scrutiny in the TTRPG community today for PVP deaths but I’ve been slaying in PVP my whole tabletop career in TSR Marvel & I absolutely love it.
Oh wow... playing Secret Wars with this would be so much fun! I got back into comics just a little bit too late for the first Secret Wars, but I have a few tie-ins from Secret Wars II as that was right around the time I discovered this game.
I'm glad to see you were excited to watch the video and I hope it didn't disappoint. Cheers!
Marvel Super-Heroes was my 2nd or 3rd RPG and me & my friends played it a lot. It helped we were Marvel Universe fans during one Marvel greatest decades and FASERIP really captured the feel of that era. Around the same time were the Official Handbooks and I used those heavily to stat up heroes and villains myself.
We made our own heroes as well and had a pretty lengthy campaign. I was able to recently get a yellow box again. My Advanced set is sadly lost to time and they're tough to get without spending a lot of dough.
I remember the game draught of the early 80's. I was lucky enough to have a great game store in Knoxville when I was in Jr High.
V &V had an awesome ad campaign in Dragon, character stats right in the ad.
My mentzer basic set came with inked dice, even though it has the same instruction to crayon your dice. So innocent ten year old me rubbed crayon all over them, having no idea of the purpose of this ritual.
Thanks so much for this! This is a big nostalgia trip for me.
Jeff grub basically came up with a chunk of the best stuff for TSR. Always thinking outside the box.
Yes, great stuff from him! I'm glad he's still with us, too, so he can share stories about his time on the business/brand.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I appreciate your introductions
I have now seen/listened to 3 of your videos and love your style. It keeps me listening for sure, especially when you are discussing game histories. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much for letting me know! I really appreciate it, and I'm very glad you are enjoying the channel. Cheers!
I love the writing and art from the TSR Marvel Super Heroes RPG. So readable! I wish every RPG was written as well as these books. (I know they were written in the Stan Lee Marvel tone, but still, super absorbable information).
I remember seeing this game advertised in Marvel Comics back in the 80s and always wanted to play it. Thanks for making this video ❤
You're very welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed the video. I had a lot of fun working on it! Thank you so much for watching and commenting, and for your support of the channel. Cheers!
Another great trip down memory lane. Though I remember having stands for the markers in my Yellow Box Marvel set.
bonus comment: I'm always amazed at your selection of incredible jazz classics. I'm slightly underwhelmed by the beverage this time. Putting a cap on an open beer?! "Sounds like heresy, brother." - any Astartes Legionnaire😂
Loved this game! The Ultimate Powers Guide in particular was a personal favorite
YES!!! This was my introduction into role-playing.
Oh wow, I always love hearing stories like this! Was it because you were a comics fan already?
@@daddyrolleda1Yes. My best friend’s older brother was the gateway for us. (That brother was on-ponit. Introducing us to TMNT when it was still a tiny comic.) We were comic nerds, and so he introduced his brother who then brought me into the fold. Next came AD&D (2nd ed.) and actually West End Games’ “Star Wars.”
Might be one of the most perfect introductory games, as comic readers already have all the power levels in their heads.
MSH was for a long time my favorite RPG. It probably learned more Marvel lore from the accessories than the comics, and without it I'm not sure I would have become a professional comics writer.
I love these videos and your relaxed, conversational style. No offense to other TH-camrs, but it's a nice contrast to what else is out there.
Can’t wait to watch this after work!
Awesome! I hope you enjoy it. It was fun for me to revisit. Been years since I've looked at it.
Great video!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
You videos are dope, please keep it up!
I'm so glad to hear you say that! Thank you so much for your support. Cheers!
Also, you “forgot” how the MSH game was an advancement from Star Frontiers:Zebulon’s Guide. The whole red/yellow/green success chart is v2 from a previous game.
And MSH is as my favorite of all the RPGs.
That's hilarious. That was my first X-men comic too
That's awesome! You're the first person I've met to say that! Cheers! (Or should I say... "Excelsior!"?)
Never got to try any of these games. They look real fun. Villians and Vigilantes is one I’m really interested in.
This was fun. :)
I like your historical lead-ups to to your main topic.
Love, LOVE MSH! I still use it if I'm running a Homeric Greek or Buffy the Vampire Slayer campaign.
Grubb & Winter are masters. Winter's "voice" gets even better in the Advanced box, in my opinion.
Generating our *own* heroes was always top priority for my groups ... in fact, with only one exception, we never used the Marvel characters as PCs ... only NPCs!
Let's take a moment and consider the wisdom of FASERIP: stepping away from D&D style stats, Grubb asks, "What do Superheroes do most?" They fight! So instead of making combat ability its own subsystem or a secondary ability derived from Strength, Dex, etc ... here we have the intuitive leap of making Fighting a stat!
I like to imagine an alternate reality in which D&D was designed the same way. Is the most common action undertaken by D&D PCs a feat of raw Strength? No!! What if D&D stats were Sneak, Fight, Assess Value, and Lug Loot?
For what it's worth, Steve Winter may just be the most charismatic guy on Earth. If you ever get a chance to game with him, you must do it.
lol. I liked that video with boot hill. Just do your own thing. The Channel is fine the way it is.
So much this.
After watching your video I pulled out my books and realized I had the advanced version. (I thought it was the basic) Only the Judge's Book and the Player's book remain. No box, no map, or card board characters. Not sure what ever happened to the rest. I appreciate the rambling. Keep on keeping on!
Joining the chorus here Martin. Some people drink booze and listen to old jazz albums to relax and de-stress... I just put on your videos and dream sweet nostalgic RPG games. Don't change a thing or how you do it.
Another great video on another classic RPG game I never played or got into. Interesting looking game though .. mechanically at least. Never was into comics so was an easy miss for me. Unlike Traveller which after 40+ years I finally got into via the Seth Skorkowsky videos (and then got HOOKED once I did) I doubt I'll give this one a chance.
Likewise, the Marvel Superheroes game is what got me into comics full time. I still instinctively apply the power ranking system to all MCU characters, and I am continuously incensed at their lack of consistency. Come on, Gamora, one movie you have Remarkable strength and the next you jump up to Monstrous!?! Pick a power level and stick to it! (Personal Nerd rank: Unearthly).
That's awesome to meet someone else who came to comics through this game. I'd read comics as a kid (the Star Wars ones I mentioned) but it wasn't until this game came out that I became a regular reader and fan. I just went to my local shop today, in fact, before having lunch with my friend. He and I go every week before our weekly "meeting" (just lunch, but since we both work from home, it's nice to get out of the house and spend time with someone who isn't my wife or daughter!). Lunch discussion often involves what comics we picked up, as our reading tastes have some overlap but there are a lot of differences.
i have this game and the out of print advanced rules, i love the system and the game was very fun.
I made a whole bunch of comics characters using Villains and Vigilantes - with the random powers and weaknesses! what a team! the character I liked most I did in a serial comic with my friends.
That sounds like so much fun! I quite like games that have random character generation, because I think it's really fantastic for being creative with how to describe and roleplay the character, rather than "building" an optimized version of a pre-conceived character. But, I'm not much of a maths guy, so optimizing doesn't appeal to me!
I used to draw up my own counters for characters I would create. the 3d counters they did were great
I have fond memories of running Marvel Super Heroes RPG at a then local and now long gone game store, Escape from Reality. I will never forget the guy playing the Hulk full out punching a normal thug. By my math that guy was spread over 3 full city blocks.
And karma reduced to 0….I love this game.
@@DMTalesTTRPG I even pulled the classic "Are you sure?" ::P
@@AngelusNielson AWESOME!!!
Back when my friends and I played this, we never used comic book characters, we made our own
A superhero I designed for this game was used by my GM to start his own comic book. Kinda mad that i got left out, but oh well.
Oh wow! That's really unfortunate that your friend didn't credit you. I'm sorry that happened!
I started with the advanced set from86, and sibsequently.got the Ultimate Powers book and thr Mitant Update. I loved the comics and was very into the various maps. I also got all of the Marvel Handbooks.
Fun and informative as always. Super Hero 44 was kind of unplayable. Glad to hear your many Marvel memories.😊
I had this set, but I'm not sure we used it much. The superpowers always seemed hard to adjudicate compared to rolling to hit in AD&D. Love all of these historical lookbacks, I'll try to find you at DaveCon to say Hi.
The advanced set is REALLY good.
Jeff Grub also wrote one of my favorite Dragonlance novels in Lord Toede.
Ah, yes, he wrote quite a few novels as I recall!
The Marvel RPG was also available here in Germany as a translated edition with a few Modules. Was super excited when I got it back then as I loved Marvel Comics as a kid.
Oh wow! I didn't realize that! I knew D&D had translations into other languages, but I didn't realize something as "niche" as Marvel Super Heroes would! Very cool! Do you still have your old copy, and do you still read comics?
@@daddyrolleda1 I had the copies until recently. Due to space limitations I had to part with a whole slew of books (the Marvel RPG and the german Edition of Star Frontiers among them), but was able to pass them on to a collector - so at least I know they are cared for. I had the basic set, the new york set and a solo adventure involving Thor.
Both the Marvel RPG and Star Frontiers ("Sternengarde" (Star Guard) in german) were available in german here, but not the full run if I remember correctly. There was a "burst" of translated books/boxes that were already out in english but not any further products.
I still read comics but have shifted a bit more toward Euro Comics particularly the French/Belgian Region. In my youth Marvel Comics were published in small pocket books here, collecting various issues in one volume. It makes it quiet difficult now to align with the original publications because they often weren´t numbered in the volume itself, often even containing issues of different series.
We didn't use a crayon to color the numbers on our dice. We use a thinned down white paint.
Ooh, that's a smart idea! Do you still have your old dice? How did the paint hold up?
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Seem to remember playing GURPS and Traveler more than Champions and Marvel Superhero’s. Oh ya and some TFT The Fantasy Trip. Guess we just didn’t get in to it as much as D&D.
Superhero TTRPGs were pretty niche back then -- actually they've always been pretty niche. I own a copy of Superhero 2044 (2nd Ed) and Villains & Vigilantes -- but first TTRPG I ever played was Champions -- and then Marvel and then DC Heroes -- and it was always with friends that were into comic books. Got back into superhero RPGs with Mutants & Masterminds -- but still don't play it that much. Fantasy TTRPGs have always ruled supreme -- compared to any of the other genres, with the Sci Fi genre ranking a distant 2nd.
Me and some friends played many many hours of Marvel Superheroes but we quickly learned with RAW there were some flaws in how combat worked which is the heart of a super hero RPG, for example, someone like Hulk or The Thing chucked a car at The Punisher ( who had Excellent Body Armor ) it would only do 10 points of damage being the car is Remarkable material. . . so it would take the Punisher being hit by over 10 cars thrown by the Hulk to take him out.
What a great intro for this one. Really well done.
I'm just gonna comment on my own comment soz not to clog it all up. But I agree with your description of what Traveler did to gaming at that time.
You should really mention the game you're talking about more please. Just in case I've been distracted. Minor quibble.
I hope you used the crayon on the dice.
Ha! You got to the crayon issue.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it!
1) The Intro. I'm so glad you like it! I've been trying to increase the quality of my videos and have been doing a lot of research on how to make a compelling introduction and such. Considering I'm just one guy with a six year-old phone and using a homemade set-up to capture my overhead shots with natural light from a window, I think I do okay.
2) Yes, I definitely think Traveller is one of those key games in the history of the tabletop roleplaying game category that helped define something new. It's kind of like how their are "key comics" that debut a new character or location, etc.
3) Mentioning the game more often. I will try to remember to do that!
4) Yes on the crayon issue! I know I've mentioned it before, but I always try to keep in the back of my mind that there are probably folks watching who *haven't* seen my other videos, and they might be wondering about why there was a picture of a crayon on the box!
I still have my box, and my dice are exactly the same. Red and blue with white ink
Good to get verification. Thank you! And, tanks for watching and commenting.
Martin, since your in the early 80’s after these RPG’s and I think we’re pretty much the same age, I know I had 2-3 board games based on RPG’s and made by TSR, Dungeon! And the Awful Green Things from Outer Space being two of them. I’d love a video on the board game RPG era, probably starting with a game I just got by my father in law, Outdoor Survival.
OOoooo boy did we play this game. I started with this one the same way I discovered a lot of TTRPGs back i nthe day - through a friend and very much incidentally. But after that simple start it was crazy. In 8th grade I met one of my best friends ever and he and I both being artistic, comics fans and TTRPG fans exploded the Marvel (and other) Universe with our creations. I still have a pile of folders packed with superheros, villains, and even organizations - most of them illustrated.
Some of my favorites were>>>
the Legion of Anti-Mutants (LOAM)- a villainous organization devoted to the exploitation of mutants of its own designs operating under the guide of being a protective entity.
Caliber - a kid who buuilt his own Stark Tech armor in his garage and who was later recuited into an Avengers franchise
A mutant character who simply went by her name, Tara most of the time but later on was known as Mindstorm (when she turned villain). This character was a whole saga unto herself with a very X-men styled rise from relative obscurity to life and even who team-shattering events and stories.
We even played cosmic level games with characters on the power level of gods.
I am/was a huge champions fan and never heard of ‘44. It’s interesting that the Hero System writers either never referenced it or glossed over it.
I'd never heard of it, either, until I began digging a bit more into early TTRPG history. Champions and Villains & Vigilantes were clearly the two big superheroes games prior to Marvel FASERIP and I think they very smartly each appealed to a different style of gamer.
I guessed right!
I was much more inclined toward Champions, but had a bit of like for the Advanced Marvel Superheroes.
Yes, same here. I also though Champions was maybe a little better than Marvel Superheroes, although both were excellent games, and DC Heroes was also really good. Lots of good options back then. Yeah, V&V wasn't that good.
For the last 12 years I've played Mutants & Masterminds -- Since M&M came out I've never seen anything better. A variety of indie supers games have been released -- but most are just too "narrative" with their rule sets for me.
1:11:00 Sal Buscema is also famous for taking over the art duties during Walt Simonson's legendary 80s Thor run.
That's right! I even have some of those, I think!
I made a character for this game one. Ironclad, son of Hephasteus. Nearly got to play him, too ...
That's a cool name for a hero. Sorry you didn't get to play him!
I knew it!
I also made my own ripoff characters for this game and drew them even more badly. Love it!
It was the most fun way to play it, I think! Thanks for watching and commenting!
I remember reading articles about Marvel RPG in Dragon and wondering about how the rules worked, because it seemed so different than D&D, but never saw a single rule book for it in my life… despite having a collection of some other 80s games, including TMNT and other strangenes, the closest I got to superhero games.
Oh! how could I forget The Atlantic Avengers whose base of operations was a converted cruise liner much in the way that the Avengers' mansion was their secret base.
I started with Marvel Super Heroes. Now I use Prowlers & Paragons.
Very cool! I've not seen Prowlers & Paragons in person, but I've read a review and it looks great (the art particularly)!
Thank you for watching and commenting, and for your support of the channel!
@@daddyrolleda1 the art is great and the system is great. I highly recommend it!
my box came with unprinted red and blue dice and a white crayon, I guess yours did too.
Very interesting. I have never played a super hero RPG
My husband likes this really old Superhero MMO City of Heroes. Same idea. It’s now free I guess because it’s so old and it’s popular even now. The Superhero RPG’s are like the inspiration for that kind of game. 😊
Highly recommend Mutants & Masterminds 3Ed if you ever want to try a supers game. It is by far the most popular supers game that is currently being published, and extremely well supported.
Never played the Marvel RPG though I do recall Dragon magazine used to have quite a few articles for it. Did play champions though, and also Golden Heroes which was available from Games Workshop. Character creation in that was quite random without any house ruling, but a lot simpler than Champions.
I'd honestly never heard of Golden Heroes before until I began doing my research for this video. Sound like an interesting system.
I have friends who really loved Champions - they are the same friends who really enjoy D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder 1E due to all the character customization options. It doesn't sound like a game for me based on my preferred play style.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting!
Our LGS carried TSR, GDW and Steve Jackson Games
The way of treating stats was very clever. If you had given them regular numbers as in D&D it would be crazy for the godlike creatures. With some having 12 while others have 3680 ... impossible to handle.
However I still found that combat was lacking and tied to that one fighting stat, you could have characters that hardly ever landed a blow.
Besides not being geared towards building your own heroes the system also lacked any real progression, which I at least back then found to be a dealbreaker. Why play if you could not level up?
All in all we found this system unplayable back then and even though I owned a lot of books for it, it never made it to the table for a real game that I recall.
98 minutes! I’ll watch this tomorrow while I’m sanding the stairs.
While I’m gone, anyone recall a game themed on Daffy Duck and that sort of thing? God, What was it called..? 😮
Possibly you are thinking of Toon by Steve Jackson Games?
@@b.s.864sounds about right.
Edit
Good lord, it was designed by Jeff Dee.
Have you thought about doing a video on the Advanced D&D run at DC comics?
Daddy rolled a 1 -- just wanted to note a small correction to what you said at around 1:18:41. You said that the X-Men reprints happened in the late 70s. The reprints actually happened from X-Men #67 (1970) to X-Men #93 (1975) -- where they reprinted very early issues, by the time you got your issue of X-Men #197 (1985) -- the X-Men were very well known and a hot series. It was the early 70s when they were not that popular (yes not mainstream, you need a movie IMO to become mainstream, but they were very popular). I do think your story about how Marvel Super Heroes got you interested to go buy an issue of X-Men #197 -- that story is very cool!! But yeah -- by 1985 - pretty late in the X-Men game -- the X-Men were extremely popular. Keep up the great content!!
Thank you for the correction!
I didn't articulate it well, but what I was referring to was that I didn't remember any ads for the X-Men in my 1977-78 Marvel Star Wars Comics, whereas they DID have ads for the Defenders, Fantastic Four, Avengers, and other teams. That explains why I knew who Captain America and the Thing were, but had no idea who the X-Men were until I picked up that comic in the 80's. So, while it looks like they started re-printing new X-Men stories again in 1975 or 1976, maybe they just weren't advertising them in the Star Wars Comics.
But thanks again! Nice to chat with a fellow comics person, and I'm really glad you enjoyed that story. Cheers!
@@daddyrolleda1 Totally get it! Great video. Yeah, didn't mean to post that correction in a bad way -- and it was a really small detail - but yeah -- just like historical type videos to have zero errors, so had to post. 😂 I have a huge collection of X-Men comic books myself and started in 1980, so as soon as you mentioned reprints in the late 70s -- I knew that wasn't right. Thanks for posting a comment on this -- really shows you care. Great content!!
Dazzler having poor reason is an insult!
The generic “just describe the effect in a way that’s appropriate to your narrative” concept is what I love about OpenLegend.
One chart, d100. That’s all you need. MSHRPG is a universal system masquerading as a super hero game. The rules can totally be used for any genre, any power level. Say goodbye to the straight jacket of class and level.
From what I
ve heard Lester gave her the nickname, Lady Day.
Nice Cartoon work. Did you illustrate later on in life?
Absolutely, 1961 FF launched the revolution.
Thank you! I kept thinking, "Why 1962"? Glad to know I'm not alone!
I wonder if this was a mistake or intentional because Spiderman was so ascendant in the brand when MSH was published.
@@jarrettperdue3328 maybe. But it doesnt align with any particular Spidey event. The Spidey TV show was late 70s. This would have been near the time Secret Wars was published, but the FF were as prominent as the Hulk and Spidey in that.
I recall a point where almost *all* Marvel titles had the Spiderman, symbiote logo on the cover. I don't know what the event or reason was and don't know if it corresponds to the year MSH was published.
One thing I may have missed in the video, is how opposed rolls/actions worked, which was to shift columns.
Gamma World remains one of my favorite games, but Marvel….oh I loved Marvel.
Maybe they wanted to show 62, 73, 84 as the progression for comcis, RPG, and then their own product. Had a better ring to it than 61, 74, 84?
17:28 they're your videos, do them how you wish. I'll watch it regardless.
I really appreciate your support. Thank you!
I’m for the long winded intros. There’s plenty of interesting stories and history included, along with anecdotes. Keep on keeping on
Seeing She-Hulk in a FF uniform had me double take for sure. I had no idea Thing took time off from the team
Thank you so much for your feedback on the format and your support of the channel. I really appreciate it!
And yes, I was reading comics during this time when She-Hulk was "filling in" for the Thing. He had left once before when he lost his powers and was replaced by Luke Cage, but the time period in which She-Hulk was on the team happened at the end of Secret Wars. The Thing got stuck on the Battle Planet for a while after the Secret Wars were over, and when he returned home he found out that Johnny Storm had started a romantic relationship with Alicia Masters, and also that Mr. Fantastic had hid knowledge that the Thing could transform between his human and Thing states at will, so the Thing quit the team in anger and went off on his own, joining a wrestling circuit for a while and also occasionally doing with with the West Coast Avengers!
41:09 I think "Cosmic" would be a better name for a maximum score, but I don't think the term was used in that sense all that much in comic books yet in 1985.
2044 i saw sitting in local game shop over 10 yeas and i found in Perth and Newcastle far longer (im in Australia) champions book was 5 dollars and was fun - i played marvel from 1984 to 2004 one campaign. We did character gen in the basic box fine and i never understood the complaint it lacked one. The advanced was better and i still play but we have some mods. Superworld was good too and could use chaosium stuff and did some things better than champions. Money and grabbing equipment of villains is still a problem in many hero games today. We ported our champions characters to Marvel almost immediately. The complete handbook of the marvel universe was in 84 also (previous versions around and a dc one specifying powers and strengths of characters that informed game stats)
Supersquadron was first australia RPG
i hijacked all the players who were playing it to my game and ended up in a share house playing day after day into mid 90s
marvel and dc owned the word superhero then
Australian reams magazine in 80s did a bad article on marvel arguing it needed a certain score which was in the game (popularity)
i am fine with your detail level
Yeah, okay, your decades old art efforts are from eh to oh, but it looks to me that if you'd kept at it you might have developed a true skill. They're certainly better than mine. This game almost completely skipped my notice back then. But watching this I do recall it now. I remember it coming up with one group of dungeoneers and quickly fading from mention. It was the power of D&D, and interests aligned toward it and then science-fiction. Just weren't interested in Marvel and super-heroes. If we would have given up any D&D playing for another game it would have been Gamma World. Well, besides the game my friend invented that used percentiles and other altered mechanics. We did play a lot of that.
I really appreciate these historical dives though. Given me the itch to go exploring again.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting! I really appreciate it.
I really loved drawing as a kid and my mom encouraged me, enrolling me in summer art classes and such. I got into an Advanced Art class in 8th grade due not to much to skill but through sheer determination and cleverness. The teacher would ask us to draw an onion in our sketchbook. I was the only one who drew a green onion (scallion). Everybody else drew a brown or yellow onion. Mine wasn't as technically proficient as theirs, but I got points for being unique. She asked us to draw a foot. Everyone sketched a human foot, and I sketched an elephant foot. She said, "I meant a human foot, but I didn't specify. Well done." I was that kid. But at a certain point, you have to have the technique to back up your ideas and I just wasn't as good as the other kids and I had to accept that I wasn't going to have a career in art.
We played a lot of Gamma World and also my friend's Gamma World knock-off he made before we had the rules he called "Mutant World." Those were our second-most played games after D&D. Then came Top Secret, and in 4th was Marvel Super Heroes, but D&D was by far the most common.
I'm really glad you're enjoying my historical videos, and I appreciate you watching and commenting. Thanks!
My goodness, if the Watership Down TTRPG was anything as upsetting as the 1970s movie, then it would have been quite something.
Akin to Lamentations of the Flame Princess in terms of horribleness.
I wonder if feats came into D&D because 5th edition is supposed to be Heroic Fantasy?