If you need help with your home cinema, please visit my web page and use the chat-button. www.immersivesoundtech.com Cheers Frederick Immersive Sound Tech
Well Inder I haven't calibrated a Marantz AV10 yet, so I can't comment on its sound quality. But, I have calibrated Marantz Cinema 40 and lots of older Marantz units. As a home cinema sound calibrator, I've worked with pretty much all "room calibration" systems on the market. To me, nothing beats the sound quality and possibilities that the Trinnov system offers - especially to me as a trained Trinnov installer. That said, I've done really good-sounding calibrations with both Audyssey and DIRAC at customers place. Is it worth saving up to be able to buy a Trinnov Altitude 16? Yes, I think so. The Altitude 16 and 32 are future-proof in a way that no other AVR is - due to the fact that they are computer-based and all the code and development are owned by Trinnov. Apart from the HDMI-card inside the Altitudes - which are manufactured by another company - the rest of the components inside are available on the market, just like any computer components, and assembled at the Trinnov HQ in Paris, France. And don't get me started on the difference in measurement microphones or the way that Trinnov is able to measure and analyze your home cinema room and your home cinema speakers and subwoofers. I'd say that 1/3 of the "Trinnov Magic" is done thanks to their unique four-capsule measurement microphone which they developed themselves and manufacture in Paris. It enabled the system to three-dimensionally locate each speaker and subwoofer in your room with an accuracy of two centimeters and one degree(!!). Is that useful when the AV-processor decodes and pan discrete Dolby Atmos sound objects around in your home cinema? YES, very much so. 😀 And with Trinnov calibration, what it doesn't do to your sound is as much important as what it does to the sound. No other calibration system is able to analyze your room and your speakers, the way that Trinnov can. I'm going to end with a quote from a customer after showing how his home cinema sound improved with Trinnov calibration: "This wasn't what I thought it would sound...I need to call my bank woman." PS. He's a very happy Trinnov-user now. 😉
Thank you for this comparison, very useful. Could you please describe the chain of components and how they are connected? Both trinnov goes to another pre? For 2 ch hi-fi purpose, Is this what you recommend or is better to go straight to the amp? Thx
Thanks for you questions! I'm going to try a short answer to a very interesting topic - maybe I'd do a video about using HiFi preamps in the future. The signal chain used in the video was the following: Roon Server via galvanic isolated network cable -> Trinnov Altitude 32 -> Audio Analogue Bellini Anniversary preamplifier -> Audio Analogue Donizetti Anniversary Class AB power amp -> TAD CR-1 MKII speakers Acoustic Zen Absolute signal and speaker cables and Furutech power cables. IsoTek power-conditioning. I was able to switch between the two Altitudes at a push of a button on a remote control, and it was very interesting indeed. Regarding the question about the need for a preamplifer or not - here's my short answer: Yes...if it's 'right' preamplifier for the system... However, if it's the 'wrong' preamplifier for the system - you're better off connecting your DAC with volume control directly to the power amp (if you dare). How important is the preamplifier for recreating the utmost sound quality and immersive sound experience? Well, after thirty years of experience as a sound engineer, and only since ten years back, been 'baptized' in holy HiFi-water - the benefit of using a preamplifier still baffles me. I'd go as far as saying the following - here's the three most important factors to reproducing great sound: 1. The speakers 2. The room acoustics 3. The 'right' preamplifier Go figure...as you understand this is future video confession of mine. Thanks for the question! Frederick
Many thanks for your financial support! 🙏 It means a lot to me. 😀 I’ve just finished building my new TH-cam studio and it’s been six months of work in between my regular work, during nights and early mornings, and weekends when the family has been away. On purpose, I didn’t make a financial plan for the rebuild, because then I probably won’t have done it. A lot of money later, now it’s finished. 😀 My plan is to produce much more content in the near future. Just have to finish our two kids new rooms too…no pressure on Dad, right? 😊 Did an initial Trinnov calibration in the new room, and what can I say, nothing beats the Trinnov calibration. Next thing to do is to implement one of my Velodyne subwoofers to combat a natural phase-cancellation around 65Hz - which by the way is a common problem in many smaller control rooms. But totally fixable with proper calibration. Anyway, you just did my day. Again, thanks for your support. 🙏 Cheers Frederick
No I didn't. I've changed to ESS converters in a couple of Altitude's now - they work like a charm. Did you change anything else in the signal-path apart from swapping out the three cards?
I did. Going to return them. I can hear a difference with them though. The hissing is only when i first turn on my oppo player udp 205. Once the movie start the hissing stops. @@immersivesoundtech
Well, as a home cinema sound calibrator, I work with all calibration systems on the market like Trinnov, DIRAC, Audyssey, RoomPerfect, ARC Genesis etc - basically whatever AV-processor my clients use. Trinnov is, hands down, the most advanced calibration system on the market and it works great for both music and movie sound. The times I've worked with ARC Genesys, I've been able to get good home cinema sound, although not to the same sound quality or control compared to Trinnov calibration. Anthem doesn't recommend using the ARC calibration above 5kHz due to, quote: "This range can be changed to a higher or lower frequency if desired, although raising it is not recommended. At higher frequencies, the microphone becomes directional, thus affecting measurement accuracy." In effect, admitting that their measurement microphone isn't accurate enough to measure 'full range'. The unique measurement microphone that Trinnov has developed measures accurately up to 24kHz (and I've actually measured my TAD speakers that play up to 100kHz, and the Trinnov 3D mic rolls off at about 50kHz). And don't get me started on explaining how unique the microphone is, it uses four capsules to measure, and can three-dimensionally locate each speaker and subwoofer with an accuracy of two centimeters and one degree. Information that is highly useful when decoding the Dolby Atmos stream and processing discrete sound objects and move them around in a home cinema room. Also, the Trinnov calibration also do phase calibration, which to my knowledge, the Anthem ARC Genesis calibration doesn't do. On a personal side, I've never really liked what the ARC calibration does to music. The sound becomes more 'correct', but at the same time looses a bit of 'naturalness' and dynamics - to my ears. Trinnov-calibrating a good HiFi-system will make the speakers 'disappear' - at least when I do the calibration. 😉 Trinnov versus ARC Genesis - not really a contest.
If you need help with your home cinema, please visit my web page and use the chat-button. www.immersivesoundtech.com
Cheers
Frederick
Immersive Sound Tech
Not a lot of Trinnov content out there, aspecially not in this depth. Thanks for taking the time to explain in great detail.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for taking the time to provide such as comprehensive comparison!
My pleasure!
Thanks for the video. You have done the Trinnov owners a great service.
Thanks for watching!
@immersivesoundtech --- Differences between Altitude 48 and Altitude 48ext? Differences between Amplitude 8 and Amplitude 8m?
I haven't compared the Amplitute 8 and 8m, but I've calibrated setups with either of them and they both sound great. 👍
Thanks for the video, very informative. How does the Trinnov compare to the Marantz AV10 if set up with Dirac
Well Inder
I haven't calibrated a Marantz AV10 yet, so I can't comment on its sound quality. But, I have calibrated Marantz Cinema 40 and lots of older Marantz units.
As a home cinema sound calibrator, I've worked with pretty much all "room calibration" systems on the market.
To me, nothing beats the sound quality and possibilities that the Trinnov system offers - especially to me as a trained Trinnov installer.
That said, I've done really good-sounding calibrations with both Audyssey and DIRAC at customers place.
Is it worth saving up to be able to buy a Trinnov Altitude 16? Yes, I think so.
The Altitude 16 and 32 are future-proof in a way that no other AVR is - due to the fact that they are computer-based and all the code and development are owned by Trinnov. Apart from the HDMI-card inside the Altitudes - which are manufactured by another company - the rest of the components inside are available on the market, just like any computer components, and assembled at the Trinnov HQ in Paris, France.
And don't get me started on the difference in measurement microphones or the way that Trinnov is able to measure and analyze your home cinema room and your home cinema speakers and subwoofers.
I'd say that 1/3 of the "Trinnov Magic" is done thanks to their unique four-capsule measurement microphone which they developed themselves and manufacture in Paris. It enabled the system to three-dimensionally locate each speaker and subwoofer in your room with an accuracy of two centimeters and one degree(!!).
Is that useful when the AV-processor decodes and pan discrete Dolby Atmos sound objects around in your home cinema? YES, very much so. 😀
And with Trinnov calibration, what it doesn't do to your sound is as much important as what it does to the sound.
No other calibration system is able to analyze your room and your speakers, the way that Trinnov can.
I'm going to end with a quote from a customer after showing how his home cinema sound improved with Trinnov calibration:
"This wasn't what I thought it would sound...I need to call my bank woman."
PS. He's a very happy Trinnov-user now. 😉
Thanks for the video. Is it the analogue input board of the Amethyst that uses these new converters?
Yes, with the upgrade, both the inputs and the outputs converters are ESS converters - in Trinnov Altitude 16/32 and Amethyst. 👍
Thank you for this comparison, very useful. Could you please describe the chain of components and how they are connected? Both trinnov goes to another pre? For 2 ch hi-fi purpose, Is this what you recommend or is better to go straight to the amp? Thx
Thanks for you questions!
I'm going to try a short answer to a very interesting topic - maybe I'd do a video about using HiFi preamps in the future.
The signal chain used in the video was the following:
Roon Server via galvanic isolated network cable -> Trinnov Altitude 32 -> Audio Analogue Bellini Anniversary preamplifier -> Audio Analogue Donizetti Anniversary Class AB power amp -> TAD CR-1 MKII speakers
Acoustic Zen Absolute signal and speaker cables and Furutech power cables. IsoTek power-conditioning.
I was able to switch between the two Altitudes at a push of a button on a remote control, and it was very interesting indeed.
Regarding the question about the need for a preamplifer or not - here's my short answer: Yes...if it's 'right' preamplifier for the system...
However, if it's the 'wrong' preamplifier for the system - you're better off connecting your DAC with volume control directly to the power amp (if you dare).
How important is the preamplifier for recreating the utmost sound quality and immersive sound experience?
Well, after thirty years of experience as a sound engineer, and only since ten years back, been 'baptized' in holy HiFi-water - the benefit of using a preamplifier still baffles me.
I'd go as far as saying the following - here's the three most important factors to reproducing great sound:
1. The speakers
2. The room acoustics
3. The 'right' preamplifier
Go figure...as you understand this is future video confession of mine.
Thanks for the question!
Frederick
Thanks
Many thanks for your financial support! 🙏
It means a lot to me. 😀
I’ve just finished building my new TH-cam studio and it’s been six months of work in between my regular work, during nights and early mornings, and weekends when the family has been away.
On purpose, I didn’t make a financial plan for the rebuild, because then I probably won’t have done it. A lot of money later, now it’s finished. 😀
My plan is to produce much more content in the near future.
Just have to finish our two kids new rooms too…no pressure on Dad, right? 😊
Did an initial Trinnov calibration in the new room, and what can I say, nothing beats the Trinnov calibration. Next thing to do is to implement one of my Velodyne subwoofers to combat a natural phase-cancellation around 65Hz - which by the way is a common problem in many smaller control rooms. But totally fixable with proper calibration.
Anyway, you just did my day.
Again, thanks for your support. 🙏
Cheers
Frederick
Did you have an hiss in your speakers after installing the new converters? I had an hiss after installing mine. If so did you fix the problem?
No I didn't. I've changed to ESS converters in a couple of Altitude's now - they work like a charm.
Did you change anything else in the signal-path apart from swapping out the three cards?
No i did'nt. @@immersivesoundtech
@@lbm281981Okay, then my suggestion is to contact your Trinnov dealer and have them sort it out for you. 👍
I did. Going to return them. I can hear a difference with them though. The hissing is only when i first turn on my oppo player udp 205. Once the movie start the hissing stops. @@immersivesoundtech
@@lbm281981I doubt the hissing stops, it’s just hard to hear when content is playing. You will still hear it in quiet passages, probably.
My question is how much "Better" is the Altitude in comparison to the Anthem AVM90???
Well, as a home cinema sound calibrator, I work with all calibration systems on the market like Trinnov, DIRAC, Audyssey, RoomPerfect, ARC Genesis etc - basically whatever AV-processor my clients use.
Trinnov is, hands down, the most advanced calibration system on the market and it works great for both music and movie sound.
The times I've worked with ARC Genesys, I've been able to get good home cinema sound, although not to the same sound quality or control compared to Trinnov calibration.
Anthem doesn't recommend using the ARC calibration above 5kHz due to, quote:
"This range can be changed to a higher or lower frequency if desired, although raising it is not recommended. At higher frequencies, the microphone becomes directional, thus affecting measurement accuracy."
In effect, admitting that their measurement microphone isn't accurate enough to measure 'full range'.
The unique measurement microphone that Trinnov has developed measures accurately up to 24kHz (and I've actually measured my TAD speakers that play up to 100kHz, and the Trinnov 3D mic rolls off at about 50kHz).
And don't get me started on explaining how unique the microphone is, it uses four capsules to measure, and can three-dimensionally locate each speaker and subwoofer with an accuracy of two centimeters and one degree. Information that is highly useful when decoding the Dolby Atmos stream and processing discrete sound objects and move them around in a home cinema room.
Also, the Trinnov calibration also do phase calibration, which to my knowledge, the Anthem ARC Genesis calibration doesn't do.
On a personal side, I've never really liked what the ARC calibration does to music. The sound becomes more 'correct', but at the same time looses a bit of 'naturalness' and dynamics - to my ears.
Trinnov-calibrating a good HiFi-system will make the speakers 'disappear' - at least when I do the calibration. 😉
Trinnov versus ARC Genesis - not really a contest.