How is everyone doing? Are we ok? Are we freaking out?! I am! Let me know your theories and predictions for next week in the comments Plus check out my new 'Ask me about the moons' merch here: rdbl.co/3JU59ap
No, I am not ok. 😭 There were too many emotions happening in this episode. All we can do is trust in Matt, and that he has a plan. And even if something tragic happens to beloved past PC's, it's for a purpose, and not just to be cruel.
Well I do have one. Don't necessarily want to correct your interpretation but I don't think it was Ludinus who split the party. Banishment variation possible but consider Matt saying familiar whiteness. It happened just like when Imogen was awakened (or however you want to call it) during the Otohan battle. I don't think I realized it at the time (pretty hard to with everything that happened one after the other to process) but it's that same effect. In this case I think it was Imogen's mom that did it. Which means she got through to her on some level even if she realized Imogen might die.
This seemed like a no win situation. The only thing that might have worked was the skyship crash and Matt kind of just ignored that. I don't know if anything they did would have mattered.
@@Mekias I don't think Matt ignored the skyship crash, though it probably should have done more damage than he allowed it. Of course, wood vs anything metal was never going to be significant.
I totally get why people would be upset. Hell, even I noticed that the show felt like it was on auto-pilot at a certain point... but I also think that came as a result of the events that preceded it. It felt natural, as this path was laid out LONG in advance. Ever since they lost Laudna, it was made very clear that Hells Bells were in *way* over their heads on this. Could they have stopped this from happening? I think so. If they had a good opening strategy, if they called for help sooner, if they all rolled really well, if Ira didn't get banished, if Imogen was able to successfully get her mother to change sides, if Caleb wasn't collared... maybe. That *all* played a critical role (heh) in the outcome. And... like a roller-coaster approaching a large incline... at some point... you're going to hit that drop and there's nothing more you can do. And you just have to watch as everything falls into place. Ultimately... they were up against an extremely intelligent man who had been gathering power and scheming for over 1000 years. If Matt had let a small group of plucky level 8s beat this guy, it would have felt even more unsatisfying and unnatural to me.
Remember that Ludinus is LVL 15, and the party just turned to LVL 9 for this next episode that's tomorrow. Matt had, as you said, given them old characters that could help them massively against it if they rolled correctly. But I think this happening makes the story more intriguing. We thought we knew where this story was heading a bit but now it's a change of direction. Now we need answers. Next episode I hope Imogen does 2 things: 1- Contact the other group 2- Try to contact Keyleth to see if she is alright, along with Caleb and Beau Don't think that Matt is gonna have them split off from the table, but will likely do it by turns of swapping back and forth. As if he did that it's easier than having people leave the table then come back to them next episode. Honestly, I would not be surprised if the group gets back together in 2 or 3 more episodes from now.
I think Ira made it back fine. Matt at the very end held up a mini and said "because of [Imogen's mum] using telekinesis, they return, but too late to do anything else. But they're back!" I can only assume that was concentration on the banish ending and Ira returning.
Even if Ira was banished, the spell doesn't make it permanent. Technically, one could be banished and then Planeshift right back into the fight (though it doesn't appear Ira had that kind of power).
@Sasquatch Bill maybe he used those resistances off screen...honestly I think it was more Matt removing an NPC that he hadn't planned on being around before certain events happened. (Possibly to explain why Ira didn't end up with one of the groups).
One important moment - in the episode when Ludinus is doing something with the Key, there is the moment when that device isn't fully powered so whatever happened, BH did succeed to not let that old elves plan succeed 100%. The device flickers or something and Ludi says "It will have to do." Or something along the lines. So that only proves that the BH could have changed the outcome even more.
My initial theory was that the attempt to break the "Divine Prison" of Ruidus was only partially successful, resulting in the prison extending down to include the Malleus Key - and so everyone at the Malleus Key was shunted away from it, outside the prison, along the various ley lines that converge there. Matt made a point to tell each group that they still saw the "aurora" effect of the Apogee Solstice on the ley lines in the sky, indicating that they were all still close to ley lines after the displacement.
Leylines criss cross all over Exandria. Then still seeing the auroras only means they haven't plane-shifted. It WOULD be worth noting if the leylines haven't shifted though, since we were told this solstice has been measured to be 20x stronger than what is needed to shift the leylines
I think that may be the key to things as they stand. Most of the apparatus for the venture was destroyed. Unfortunately the Luxon Beacon has the potential to undue any degree of success the party may or may not have had. I don't know how a deity free D&D would work but it seems like an opportunity for a TTRPG system switch if that's what they are going for. It's all up in the air going into the next session. And to think people were complaining about the slow burn before Campaign 3 started churning out tension session after session.
Ludinus' speech, even though it was clearly fueled by contempt for the prime deities, was also mainly ego driven. I haven't seen that much hubris since the Keyfish moment, makes you wonder if Asmodeus had a point🤔 At this point I'm pretty sure Perdathos is going to be released but Ludinus is definitely not getting his dream world.
Yeah agreed - lol can you imagine if Ludinus came to them hat in hand to ask for their help putting Predathos back because he realised he was gonna get eaten too?! 😅
He's also plain incorrect. He's conveniently ignoring that the Calamity wasn't a deliberate punishment from the gods, it started because of wizard hubris!
It really reminded me of the Calamity cast with the hubris. Definitely felt like a 'the only thing separating us from the gods is that they can switch planes' moment imo
The irony of Ludinus' own hubris was certainly not lost on me. And the fact that he fully claims to be from and of that time absolutely fits. It is also ironic that he praises the Raven Queen's ascension while meddling with Fates that are her purview.
I’m curious to see how both Laudna and Imogen will react seeing as they are close and now have been forced apart. Almost reminds of me of when the twins got separated for their missions in the slayers take but on a much larger scale.
I think it could be really healthy for them both. They’re incredibly codependent and terrified of losing each other, and because of that their relationship’s stagnated. Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of earnest, heartfelt “I love you’s”. But there’s not a whole lot of development, healthy risk taking, or pushing each other to be better (especially on Laudna’s end). I get why they are the way they are, but I think that figuring out who they are without each other could be super important for them both.
I 100% agree, this felt like a dramatic cut-scene with an inevitable end, because of Matt needing to make certain things happen in the story. I’m sure that’s also why he set up the timeline the way it was, which didn’t allow for BH to be a high level party when the solstice occurred. Let’s face it, a level 8 party was not going to defeat a 1000 year old wizard who not only survived the Calamity, but also set this entire ‘destroy all the gods’ scheme into motion. Although I wonder what would have happened if Beau and Caleb rolled better. I’m so afraid for the Empire siblings- especially Caleb. I could definitely see Ludinus being exceptionally cruel and ruthless to Caleb, or if Ludinus is as smart as he seems to be, just killing both of them as soon as possible to prevent their interference. I wonder what Matt has up his sleeve in order to hamper or prevent the intervention of the other members of VM or MN. Bc even though most members of VM are quite a bit older now, I seriously doubt they would willingly sit out a fight this big, especially Vex and Percy. And we all know that the MN are hard core ride or die for their found family. Mechanically I completely understand why Yasha wasn’t with Beau during these encounters, but in-game wise I’m hard pressed to believe Yasha wouldn’t have been with Beau every step of the way. But tbh, all the members of the MN would have come running had they been able. All that to say, it’ll be very interesting to see what machinations Matt creates to account for all those details, and others. I do agree though, this campaign has a feeling of finality to it in a way the previous two did not. Win, lose, or draw, I feel like this will be the last campaign we see in this version of Exandria. I 100% agree that Critical Role will have a major shift once this campaign is over in order to completely distance themselves from the DnD IP, so that they can retain creative control without varying degrees of conflict. I hope we don’t lose the core cast, but I could understand if various players are not able to commit to the time it takes for these multi-year long campaigns. But I would love to see guests like Robbie or Erika make a long standing return, that’d be amazing. And I’m so happy we’re probably going to get more of Chetney and Ashton’s background, been dying to know those secrets since the start of the campaign. The stakes are higher than they’ve ever been before. Lives of beloved PCs from every campaign are in the balance, and the world itself that we as Critters have been apart of for 8 years might be coming to an end. Is it Thursday yet?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
It wasn't as much frustrating as it was more shocking! The fact that he pulled in other players characters into this big scene was.... amazing and scary all at once.
I actually think Laudna and Ashton destroying that power core had some kind of effect. We won't know for sure yet but why would Matt specifically mention that Ludinus looked anxious when the machine depowered partially? Matt could have a plan to allow like a partial success for the players. Pure speculation though, I could be wrong.
Wild Theory: As Ludinas activates the key, he says, "Let us destroy what would unmake them." Now, there is a chance that Matt simply mispoke, but since he kept looking down I have a feeling he was reading the speech word for word. So, assuming Ludinas said whay he meant, his actual plan was to "destroy that which would unmake them" ie; kill Predathos. Here's where the theory gets crazy, Ludinas is one of the two gods who "died" at the hands of Predathos. We know that when the Raven Queen usurped the god of death, it is unclear if she killed him or not. So, what if gods can not die, instead simply becoming mortal. That could be why Ludinas has used luxon tech to elongate his lifetime. Also, if he is a fallen god, he would simply be the former god of death? Idk, just my brain exploding with theories.
That is entirely possible. I’ve used that type of trope before….. to add to it….. provoking The Raven Queen with the masks and badges to draw her out since she usurped him is also a possibility. A 1000 year old revenge plot? Or could Ludenas and the Dusk Maven be working together to create a new Panthion in their image?
I would honestly love it if Ultgar was literally Santa; jolly, round, and making toys for kids for free, and Chetney felt underappreciated for his skills and Ultgar refused to pay him more.
Could be a good theory, except that when the group was in Heartmoor Hamlet they met another toymaker that was mentored by Oltgar and she was as paranoid as Chetney when he mentioned that name
My crack theory is that Uptgar somehow knew Chet was in danger and he saved him, and because of Chet's connection, proximity, or friendship with the others, Imogen, FCG, and Fearne too.
I don't think it was a total railroading. The ritual was going to happen, but with degrees of success or failure added by the actions of the party. So they managed to bring the power level down by destroying some of the cores, but left Otahan whole, and we might see the effects of that play out in later episodes. Matt gets to tell his story while preserving the agency of the PCs. It's a difficult needle to thread, but I think they did it.
Amazing recap, as always. You reminded me the Paragon's Call worship the Raven Queen which, I think, their faith was a fundamental part of Ludinus's plan. In the old days of D&D, RaW said a god was aware of anything its followers could see and hear (in a vast, cosmic consciousness sorta way), so if Ludinus needed Vax, it would make sense he'd want as many eyes of the Raven Queen on deck to see him put the hurt on Keyleth to draw him out.
Great video as always, and I think the Chroma Conclave comparison was spot on! Lots of people in the twitch chat were freaking out but Ludinus is 1000 years old and has been planning this moment for who knows how long so it’s not surprising that he had all the pieces in place. I loved the episode!
I loved how Matt structured this-combat? Battle? Event?-where Ludinus would do a line of his speech, then Matt said, "What are you doing?" to show that it was all happening together. Great mechanic/structure! As to "railroading"-I'm really growing to hate that term. The CR crew is crafting a story together, and it being a game means player-characters have incredible agency... But the DM is a player, too! Basically-this is Matt's turn. And no, the PCs didn't have a "counterspell" powerful enough to stop this story beat. (Remember, D&D is an asymmetric game, where PCs and DMs have different powers. This was a beautiful example of the DM wielding theirs!) 1000 years Ludinus had to plan, scheme, and quietly simmer in his gods-hate; I'd have been disappointed if a rag-tag band of (8th level!) misfits that met a month or two ago could stop him. And now? SO EXCITED to see what happens next! AHHHH!
omg I feel like there's so much I want to say hahah. Because this is, without a doubt, one of my all time favourites CR episodes. I was screaming and jumping around and when Vax showed up... I full cried. so many emotions. Even thought I always felt like this would never turn out in the party's favour, I really enjoyed the recent sessions of them planning and the time before this major event. I agree with you, Luna, I do not think that "railroading" in this case is a bad thing at all. To me it always felt like Ludinus was going to succeed no matter what, but I loved the way it happened and wouldn't have asked for anything to be different, honestly. I just do not want to see my past campaing babies dead or hurt 😠 hahah but yeah, I cannot wait to see what's next, and I'm very intrigued by the idea of having a different cast going forward. I love love love them as they are, but I did always wondered about the future of CR. Its not like they will be doing this forever, and I'm excited to see if and who they'll bring on to the table.
Telekinesis which she used to hand him whatever they transformed Vax into. He was trying to correct the oversight of not mentioning it at the time. Unsurprising since there was a lot going on and he was just as emotionally keyed up in his own right as everyone else was.
I remember seeing Sam's bingo card earlier in the episode and seeing Vax's name. At the time I thought there was no way Vax was going to show up. I was dead wrong.
I've been refreshing my feed to see when this video would come up. Oh man, what an episode. I haven't been this invested in C3 at any point, and now I'm all on board to see where we will go from here. I really hope we get to see some new people at the table, like you mentioned we might. I'm also hoping we get some more backstory and fleshed out main characters out of this. In a strange way it reminds me of Vecna. Okay, I'll stop now lol
I think it was Imogen's mom that shunted everyone away. There weren't any random bystanders that got zapped and plenty were showing up last minute. Keyleth is still alive and somewhere. There were still ruidus born alive around them. Imogen's mom's cry of "I can't see you" sounded very panicked, like she was used to being able to see her, but Imogen was never visible to her. Maybe she's been watching Imogen, knows her friend, and lost contact while she was wearing the circlet.
I believe a part of the split up Bells Hells closest to Aeor will be able to find Essik or Devexian and finally TIME TRAVEL! They would spin back time to warn Keyleth about the trap, find Caleb and Bo to find a better plan so they didn't get captured (or have them actually call in their M9 friends this time). The ground work is set up!
I like that idea. Turning failure into success. It also allows us to keep Ludinus as our overarching villain and yet keep the campaign from ending so abruptly.
I love seeing a really smart villain with a good plan, which is something we haven't really seen before. For all the hate, it would be ridiculous for bell's hells to stop a thousand year old legendary wizard. The best dnd worlds exist beyond the characters. This event was going to happen, and bell's hells chose to watch it unfold. Just because the players want something doesn't mean they get it, that makes their achievements feel meaningless. Imagine how satisfying it will be when ludinus and otohan are taken down now. That payoff will be because we know how powerful they are and because we know it will be earned. It's not railroading, it's the effects of a living world. If I tell my players that an army is coming and will attack a certain place in a week and they go mess around, the attack is still happening. If they show up and think 6 people will take out an army without a plan, that's not realistic. Bell's hells has been taking everything at face value, not planning, and kept ignoring all the signs that they were being strung along. I know we all love the players, but what have the characters really done to earn stopping ludinus? I think the community is trying to railroad Matt lol
Excellent explanation! I also think so, if someone thinks they wouldn't have done things that way, it isn't good. These people would fall apart if they had to play an old-school Greyhawk game.
Who else could they have reached to though? The only one I could think of is Ashton'd lady matron, idr her name, the one whose house he nearly died on.
Railroading (to me, at least) is more about limiting player choice rather than limiting the major story beats. It didn't feel like railroading (again, to me, at least) because they had plenty of freedom to act and do pretty much whatever they wanted, so long as it made sense and they rolled well enough. It's how I plan plots for LARP: with major story beats set in stone, more or less, but with a ton of wiggle room as to how players get there and what it looks like when they do/ in the aftermath. Sure, sometimes players can surprise you and completely do away with your metaplot, but that doesn't happen very often.
When Matt said, "...a familiar white..." when they were teleported, it made me think of when Imogen accidentally removed the group from the battlefield when she unleashed her power in the initial fight against Otohan. So I wonder if Liliana sent them away, or if the damage they did to the machine resulted in them not going as far as they should have (the moon???). I dunno, man haha I'm so curious!!
I'd say there could have been _degrees_ of success/failures depending on the rolls during the last combat. Like, it was always on the cards that Imogen could get through to her mother before she cast the spell than morphed Vex into the divine lens... but she rolled poorly when it mattered. Also, in a single round, Ottohan could have been weakened by losing her Echo Knight machine at the same time that Chetney immobilized Ludinus & stopped his ability to cast spells. Again, bad rolls stopped that from happening. :) The dice gods clearly wanted to see Exandria shaken to its core! 🔥🎲🙌🎲🔥
That's the exact thing I was going to say. There were multiple opportunities to interrupt and disrupt and stop the plan. But the dice were just not cooperating at all. It's one thing when they work against a single event, but this was just... constant dice interruption :)) Somehow, Ludinus got the dice on his side!
As someone who watched all of season two and all of season three up until episode 49, but then no longer had the time to consistently watch CR anymore, thank you. This is just the kind of recap I need.
I actually think the ship plan could have worked. But Matt was very clear that Ludinus was the reason the Vasselheim ship failed. With how long BH waited to call upon the ship, it became more likely Ludinus would appear.
I think Matt wanted this event to happen, so I think probably the same result would have happened I think. I really hope he talks about some alternate possibilities though in 4 sided dive!!! I need to know!!
@@Luboffin I just clocked Matt having Beau and Caleb say that Ludinus was the key to stop the Vasselheim ship and then it was Ludinus who stopped it. Maybe Liliana or Otohan could have stepped up or Ludinus was hiding in plane sight. I do hope Matt will talk about their chances ot alter or stop this ritual. I for one am pretty sure their actions slowed it down enough so they have still a chance to stop it. Or it worked but creating the beam was only the first step.
@@kylemarrow92 Still at the top of the pit... which is why "Keyteor" came burning in. She recognized things were coming to a head and she needed to hurry.
As far as the potential railroading is concerned, we're also not party to the kind of above-table talks the cast and Matt may have had about story beats and player agency. These people have played together for years, and there's a lot of trust they've built together specifically about the games they play together. He may have said, "hey there's certain story beats I want to reach for this campaign, are you okay with x, y, z?" I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt and trust that they're playing the game they want to play.
100% agreed - Matt could definitely have gone to them all said "look I've got this crazy plan" and they all were keen for it. I mentioned last week that I don't think he would put previous PCs in danger without checking in with the players, for example. They all have a lot of trust.
I agree 100% with you on this. Kind of reminds me of how Travis acts when Matt is cooking up something treacherous or dangerous. Travis looooves to push the red button lol. Viewers love to say "oh they should have done x to prevent y" when some of the players themselves just want to watch it happen lol
I agree but that’s still a definition of railroading. Even if you talk to the party and agree a mission is going a certain way you are still in essence saying “I want it to go this way you on with me making it happen regardless of your actions” It’s just a super nice way of doing it.
It's possible but I think Matt likes to do as little handholding as possible. A lot of this was both a wonderful and awful surprise. There is always a ton of accusations of the manipulation of events on Actual Plays and I don't even like to entertain that sort of thinking. Just because you don't believe something can or does happen doesn't necessarily mean you are right. There is just so much that certain parties aren't aware of, and may never be aware of, and a lot of leaping to conclusions. In the same vein as charges of scripting or calling roll results fake.
100% agree with your parallel with the Chroma Conclave. What better way to setup a hated enemy that players will strive to defeat than to have them take something from you earlier in the campaign. They were NOT railroaded, they were simply poking their nose into a pond with MUCH bigger fish that already had their own plans and schemes in motion. That makes the world a MUCH more interesting place to be than one where everything revolves around the players and they have the ability to affect and direct any of it. HUGE PROPS to Ashley for not using her Stonkey's Ring on the Luxon Beacon for "Metagamey reasons". On the theory side, I'm wondering if Vordo, one of the gods devoured by Predathos before the Schism, might be the Luxon. Vordo being a God of Fate and Order fits nicely with much of the Dunemancy magic that come from it. Also, ironic that when I Google PREDATHOS definition, I'm asked, "Did you mean PREDATOR?" Coincidence?
@@shinobitatsu there were plenty of chances to change things, they just had bed rolls. Baeu and Caleb getting captured due to bad rolls, ira getting banished, fcg's failed dispel, chetneys failed grapple that would have seperated ludines from the machine - or at least stopped him from activating it, Imogen's failed persuasion check on her mother which was clearly not accounted for by ludines. Any one of these could have dramatically changed the event, or delayed it long enough Not to mention it still didn't go smoothly for ludines, without enough power due to what the BH blew up, who knows if it even properly worked, meaning there is still a fight due to the actions they made. Also, if that wasn't enough, it's not the DM's fault if players CHOOSE to walk into a battle or location WAY under leveled. 1000 year old wizard? Fighter with echo knight abilities that ALREADY has destroyed them? They were never winning a front on assault with those big hitters in play, unless everything went perfectly Also saw some people say there ain't a spell that would stop an airship - wall of force anyone? It can even be configured into a dome! You just need to relax and realise that sometimes things just don't go well, and that doesn't just mean 'railroad' because it appears on the surface as if nothing could have happened any differently, when in reality many key rolls just failed.
@@shinobitatsu was it also "railroading" in eXu Calamity when the Brass Ring couldn't stop Asmodeus after the tree was sundered? No. The difference in power between the players and the antagonist was too great for any other outcome to be realistic at that point. But even though it was historical canon, Brennan gave the players a chance, small though it was, to change history prior to that fateful mistake that rocked the world. A small chance is not the same as a railroad.
Another youtuber suggested that the paragon's call was wearing raven masks as a way to anger the raven queen is sending Vax, which I think is quite an idea. When jt comes to railroading, while I do think the end was inevitable, the degree of the failure defiantly felt changeable. If they had figured out some way to stop ludenous (sorry I don't know his names spelling) or if Imogen haven't rolled a 1 on persuasion, it could've ended very differently.
In my head, Luda learned ALL he needed to know by reading a detailed account of Vox Machina in the best selling novel (Available as an audiobook), The Daring Trials and Tribulations of Taryon Darrigton. Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere else, but I suspect Vax was ONLY able to return because this was an apogee solstice, when “greet miracles” could be achieved that were otherwise impossible. The only other time he appeared beyond death was an absolutely epic use of Wish by a certain bard at a certain wedding. Going after Otohan’s backpack was a good idea, once Matt fed them the knowledge it gave the Echo Knight abilities, but I’m not sure on the execution. Orym has battle master dice that could add damage and improve accuracy; Fearne had luck points from the potion. Seems like these were forgotten. Sam also had some clutch ideas that fell short on the rolls; freeing Caleb, a high level wizard, would have been big. Matt does need to have a talk with the players about Guidance - they don’t seem to realize it is an ACTION to cast the SPELL and it takes concentration. FCG used it on his dex check, then almost used it on his Dispel. Aficionado, which means it’ just being spammed I completely ignoring the action rules. I’m not sure what Chet he was going for. If he were able to corral Luda’s arms, it may have prevented him from casting certain spells, but “grappling” normally only affects speed, not arm movement. I’m excited to see Santa’s Revenge in Uthodern, tho.
The only "rail-roadyness" I got from all of this, came from the fact that nothing they did (ie, destroying the fey realm key, disconnecting/exploding several power sources) didn't seem to matter in the end. However we really haven't seen if that is actually the case, there may have been consequences of Ludinus going through with his plans without adequate power. It should also be noted that the players were rolling balls when it counted during that last battle. Orym failing to destroy Otohans backpack by 1. Imogen failing to convince her mom to switch sides. Chetney not grappling Ludinus. FCG failing to counterspell the collar around Caleb. Caleb and Beau getting caught. Any of these roles going the other way, might have turned the battle. Very much an emotional roller coaster of an episode. Matthew Mercer is an evil genius, they way this was all laid out from day one (or maybe even before...)
The fact that the vanguard wore the the maven of ravens emblem it made the chance of the champion to appear. It was on purpose since vax is the only quote unquote divine being connected to a person. They tried once attacking kelieth to try to summon early. It was all planed.
This episode was amazing. So freaking amazing Matt worked really smartly with Keyleth and our attachment to her, because when she was in danger, both the cast and the critters were begging for something to save her... And Matt did, and then he turned our relief in terror when the second part of Ludinus' plan happened I don't think Matt will kill all the gods necessarily, since he values his own stories and took the effort of adding the tales of the Bright Queen (where Lolth is pretty much alive) in the timeline after the solstice, although a cosmic change might happen, with the gods transforming or distancing themselves from the world even more, or something like that. But I don't know I would love for them to bring more long-term guests, but I feel like CR has constructed a system for their cast that is very difficult to alter without angering some fans XD
Idk if you watched 4-sided Dive but Liam told everyone on how Ludinus knew Vax would've shown up to save Keylith. When Liam asked Matt how, he responded with it's not the first time Keylith was attacked. Which means the attack where Orym's husband died, that was when they tested to see if Vax would appear to save his lover which he did.
I think a lot of people have trouble with the idea that helping the party tell a story and giving them exclusively victories have overlap but are not the same, remember when vax died permanently to serve the raven queen, molly dying twice and the resurrection failing(a whole mechanic they agreed upon and are still using), and fjord being powerless for a bit while he was getting over his ex? If the party didn't like this style they wouldn't have been pushing for it every step of the way for over 8 years.
I think I agree with your take on whether this was "railroaded," like it's all on a spectrum. It was definitely difficult in ways that the cast/characters could not have anticipated going in, and they were very honest about trying not to metagame too heavily with some of their decisions (Fearne and the Beacon etc.). I do also think that it's worth thinking about where Ludinus had stacked contingency on contingency for success and where his blindspots were, because I think that Matt did really try to balance that. Like, I do think that if his Raven bait hadn't worked, some other champion would have showed up since at some point Keyleth mentions that there have been multiple false flag attacks around the world that all seemed connected to the Vanguard (plus he was actively antagonizing Vasselheim, though they got there late etc.). But I think that Matt did a good job of showing that one thing Ludinus was not Prepared for was Imogen getting through to her mother, and I really wonder if Laura hadn't Nat1'd her last Persuasion how things would have shaken out. An extra round or two could have been huge? For Theory Time, the geothermal Pools of Wittebak have a story hook in Tal'Dorei Reborn that has to deal with the secrets of Ruidus so I wonder if Matt pulled a DM's "move it to where the players can find it" in Marquet or Issylra? The only other place established to have geysers is Kamordah because of Desirat though so maybe geothermal in Exandria is just always Bad News! Also saw a theory that Ultgar had been tinkering with Aeor tech, which feels wild but then again the Assembly did get Yeza to work on dunamis so...? (sorry for the textblocks!)
Seeing Vax get turned into a arcane lens, holy cow, how does bells hells stop what comes next? Great recap, I'm so glad I found your channel. CR is one of very few things I prefer to experience with a group of people. Thank you for this space to geek out about CR.
As usual, me enjoying a piece of storytelling coming from the US: "well, the villain has a very fair point." But I love Bell's Hells nonetheless, Ashton's glorious tirade from last episode perfectly summarizes my world view (not me being totally an Ashton fangirl).
Thank you Luna! As someone who hasn't watched campaign one nor is much of an expert in Exandria lore I appreciate you explaining all the references and wider context so much, it helps me enjoy C3 even more! ❤ I realised that watching another episode doesn't quite feel complete for me until I watch your review that puts all the stuff in the perspective. :)
I think that time spell was old magic above lv 8 spells. That's why it was done when it was done do to needing to draw power from the lay lines making magic that strong possible. Kiki was bait from the very beginning. I think without the players from other campaigns coming to help bells hells was to give bells hells a chance to get away ,the gods or something or someone is giving the party a way to possibly stop the half successful release.
I have not played any D&D but CR and your reviews make me want to. I live in a very small town and I hope I get to have friends like you. Looking forward to next week!
I like how in the end after they've all been teleported it separated all the pairings. Laudna from Imogen, Orym from Fearn and Ashton from FCG. Without their "other halves" to fall back and rely on it opens up for more interesting character and team development! Super hype for future episodes!
Here's how I think the beginning of Exandria began. The gods were running from Predathos and came upon a world in primordial chaos. They asked the titans if they could stay a while, to which they agreed. Predathos showed up and with the combined might of gods and titans, locked it away. Afterward, the gods start making the mortal races and the titans are like "Hey, we need you to leave. We don't want another one of those things showing up." The gods are like, "Nah." Then the titans replied, "We're not asking," and started attacking. At this time, some of the gods start thinking, "You know maybe we should leave." The Prime Deities said, "No, this is our house now." History as we know it does not reflect this, so the question is, who are actually the 'good deities' here? Wait, the Matron of Ravens was Ruidusborn? A portion of a god-eater's power resided within her? Is that how she was able to kill a god perhaps? I believe the loss of power turned the beam from a hammer to crack open an egg to a drill punching through a vault door. It'll get the job done, it's just going to take a bit longer. Here's a question: Has Imogen lost the feats that Matt gave her previously? Unless Laura wanted a complete respec of her character, I doubt she's lost her powers entirely, but I can see losing those mysterious feats. I think we're going to end up with something akin to the Slayer's Take episodes from C1, where the party was split for 4 episodes. This might take a little longer though as they're literally a world apart.
Wow..! what a crazy, omg, what is happening episode. I felt all ranges of feelings through out the entire episode, leading to answering questions then back to questions without answers. I felt ambushed just like the party and the extended party was played and completly controled. Once again Matt shows how amazing of a story teller and GM he is and will always be. Just when you think you have his story understood he turns the table on you and you stand there dumbfounded. I'm happy to be one of the many that faces that moment, it leads to great entertainment that very few like Matt can provide. Once your emotionally hooked you can't deny your fully invested. One thought that comes up to me, is that the gods had to know what was going on or at least once the Raven queen felt what was happening to her champion, they or she had to try to do something to help or stop what was going on. I know they can't do anything directly being stuck behind the gates but they must have something they can do together behind the scenes, like a time displacement . The Raven Queen has many spiritual cords she can pull on to effect the outcome. I don't imagine she would let her champion fall without giving him or others that are attached to him some kind of secound chance. Just a thought, what do all of you think about that?
I haven't thought about changing the cast or the system! This is definitely an option. I'm excited! I trust the communication skills of the cast, so I don't worry about railroading. After all, this is their show, we're just here to cheer from the sidelines. I was looking forward to your video! I find it very useful and fun to rewatch. Thank you for your time and investment 💜
So, a couple things. iirc, after the episode Matt revealed that Ira wasn't banished fully. Imogen's mom had to drop concentration on banishment before the full minute passed to cast something else. He's still in play. Now for the touchy subject of railroading and Matt's choices for this part of the narrative. At first, I was annoyed by it. A lot. But, in someone else's recap they'd mentioned that previously Caleb (as played by matt) referenced that Ludinus seemed to be getting sloppy, and that it felt like a trap. First time through, I didn't catch that warning sign. I don't know what BH could have done differently to change that outcome. But my main anger was that, for me on first viewing, it felt like they had no warning of what was about to happen with Keyleth and Vax. But since there was, I just didn't catch it. I've grown okay with how things played out in this specific instance. I also trust that matt and the players trust each other that it's never done in a way to hurt any of them. We, my fellow critters, are more outside observers who have far less right to be angry over the choices made in the campaign than the players themselves have. I think a subset of the fan base forgets that sometimes.
I loved all of this. Matt bringing all this together from C1, EXU, EXU:C, C2, and now here was beautiful. If there is no feeling of "we can't win this" from the players then the game feels flat. This was a brilliant set of storytelling and letting the dice speak their parts of the story.
I was screaming like a banshee as I watched this episode. It didn't even occur to me until you mentioned it that this may be a way to introduce more characters and or formats. I'm very interested to see how things go from here, thank you for the video!
A theory I saw was that one of the reasons they may have all been wearing symbols of the Dusk Maven would be to “gain favor” with her as another way to potentially draw out her champion
@@Luboffin perhaps it's deliberately aggregating her then? Associating her name with the plan to kill the gods, definitely gets her attention either way.
there were plenty of chances to change things, they just had bed rolls. Beau and Caleb getting captured due to bad rolls, ira getting banished, FCG's failed dispel, Chetneys failed grapple that would have separated ludines from the machine - or at least stopped him from activating it, Imogen's failed persuasion check on her mother which was clearly not accounted for by ludines. Any one of these could have dramatically changed the event, or delayed it long enough Not to mention it still didn't go smoothly for ludines, without enough power due to what the BH blew up, who knows if it even properly worked, meaning there is still a fight due to the actions they made. Also, if that wasn't enough, it's not the DM's fault if players CHOOSE to walk into a battle or location WAY under leveled. 1000 year old wizard? Fighter with echo knight abilities that ALREADY has destroyed them? They were never winning a front on assault with those big hitters in play, unless everything went perfectly Also saw some people say there ain't a spell that would stop an airship - wall of force anyone? It can even be configured into a dome! People just need to relax and realise that sometimes things just don't go well, and that doesn't just mean 'railroad' because it appears on the surface as if nothing could have happened any differently, when in reality many key rolls just failed.
@@Luboffin that could still be true. if the gods are somewhat omnipotent they might have known about Ludinus needing a sliver of divinity and decided to keep themselves away. Vax could have been defying his god to save Kiki.
@@Luboffin I'd say that the gods weren't very much involved in C2 either. The Dwendalian's were atheists who tolerated deities that fir their value system and the Kryn Dynasty had an as yet unverifiable creation myth in regards to the Luxon. It's more that we have party members that are less acquainted with and open to faith. FCG being the prime example as they're clerical abilities were nontraditional and decidedly not faith based. In that sense the party feels somewhat ill suited as a fit for the ultimate consequences of our villains ambitions.
I agree. My very first thought when i realized they were split was, oh. Here we go. Two parties. Half the bells, with guests, then the other half of the bells and other guests, as they rally new allies to the fight. I think that ludinus succeeded, and the location of the ritual is now an open portal to the prison on ruidus. With, a sort of mini calamity unrolling over the new few months as the shockwave of destruction slowly washes over the world.
What if the party is split so that we have a new guest DM come and handle one of the halves? If not Brennan (to match the Dimension 20 getting Matt), then maybe Mark Hulmes or Aabria again or maybe someone completely new.
There might be guest's, or considering the make up of the split teams, Beau and Caleb might have been transported with the group to Uthodern and Caduceus could be there at the kiln visiting.
I had a similar thought. The other party might meet up with the Crown Keepers. I have been wondering if the truce during the Calamity was because they didn’t want the Ruidus event to happen at that point. If so, then the Betrayer gods may not be thrilled with what is happening. That could mean Opal’s patron may want her to get involved.
I think what bothered me about the episode was the way it presented Ludinus as outwitting former player characters, when those characters' choices were based purely on the demands of the narrative. Keyleth, in particular, understood the stakes and had multiple days to prepare. Yet her approach was to wait until the apparent last minute, jump directly into the middle of the ritual, and hope for the best. Which was certainly a cinematic moment. But the Keyleth we saw as Marisha's PC would have acted sooner, with more backup and with a better plan. Without the need to facilitate the current narrative, Keyleth, Beau, Caleb, and even a handful of their high level allies could have had the Key out of operation before Bell's Hells even arrived. Ludinus was prepared for the appearance of a divine champion in a specific time and place, but utterly unprepared for the sort of mortal opposition he had every logical reason to expect.
I absolutely loved Ludines' monologue! It's really refreshing to see a bad guy in any type of media know they are doing morally questionable acts and is totally ok with being viewed as the villain. I am so excited to see what comes next!
Previous characters who may make an appearance at the table soon are: Reanne Essek (Wild guess - Patrick Rothfuss as GM) Caduceus Pike Scanlan Vex Crown Keepers
Absolutely unhinged if Matt has so many NPCs invested in what's happening that he joins as a PC instead of DMing. I would love to see it. Any of these guests/changes would be a welcome switch up. I think fans have been confused for a bit as to why there haven't been as many guest appearances up to now.
Remember how the First Knight of Avellir could harness divine power with NO connection to any diety? Perhaps that is what FCG has been doing this whole time.
Railroading? Nah. Railroading is when you take away player agency and the cast had agency and used it. They were unsuccessful in their attempts, but they did have agency. The way this reads to me is that this is a 20th level encounter and the players are 8th level supporting cast. As such they aren’t going to stop the arrow from being loosed from the bow, but they can make the aim less than true. The question is by how much can they deflect the trajectory? The party had some effect by destroying the power cells so that the Malius Key had to be activated with less than full power. The party did fail on several other initiatives that could have impacted the level of success. Imogen failed to turn her mother. FCG failed to pick up the planes walker and failed to remove the circlet from Caleb. The party failed to destroy the backpack. Chutney failed to lay a finger on Ludinous. Had any one of those been a success, the loosed arrow might have been further deflected from the target. So, railroaded? Nah. Quite the opposite.
Fab recap! This was one of the greatest episodes of campaign 3! I also hope that going forward there might be time for some more side quests or party moments. It feels this has been building since episode 1 which is awesome and amazing, but I definitely feel like I would enjoy to see the party doing something else while they figure out the consequences of this. Also I wonder how long it will be until we find out if ludinous succeeded. Will something big happen to demonstrate that or will it be a bit of a slow burn? Also I love the inclusion of "snakin ma way" ... thank you
Yeah maybe it's going to be a slow process, but if it is I can't see Bell's Hells just turning around and do something else rather than trying to stop him. If it's quick then we might see more of those side quests 🤔
I'm not sure you're right, FCG was given the coin, and encouraged to pursue the Changebringer by Imahara Joe, who is an NPC, and this was indeed initiated by Matt.
This episode definitely had the feel of a cutscene, in which some world shaking event comes along. I found it really interesting that for the most part the players were separated from their original comfort person (Orym and Fearne, Imogen and Laudna, Ashton and FCG). Definite overtones of the Slayer's take episodes. I am so hoping we do get a bunch of guests. For one, I would love to see the Crown Keepers, in part because I want to know what is going on with Opal. I half expected Yu to show up at some point while they were in the Fey realm, but I certainly hope to see more of them soon. I super hope that we do get to see guest players. I love the way they add to the table dynamics. It would not surprise me in the least if this world event gives us the transition to a fully Matt-brewed game system. They did warn us at the beginning that "all bets are off", and that this season was going to be a wild ride. I'm excited and scared to see what will happen next! I know that there were some grumbles about fan service earlier in the campaign when characters from C1 and then C2 were being involved. Clearly to me, the fans being serviced are the players themselves. Watching all of their reactions as those characters made their appearances over the course of the game has been such a gift. This episode was a real gem in that regard. Marisha jiving around in her seat at first only to end up in full perch with her arms wrapped around her legs was a mood. Laura and Liam in full Twin hug mode. Travis reaching across the table. Ashely covering her face in the Little Mister plushie. Taliesin with his jaw dropped wildly cussing into his hands. All of it was magic. When Liam started tearing up it absolutely broke me.
I think Matt seeded some hints that the Key wasn’t doing so hot there at the end. It doesn’t seem like his style to take the characters decisions like, “we’re gonna destroy this malleus key tether in the Feywild” only to put them in a doomsday scenario where they just witness things happen. I think this is setting up the party’s big moment. Their interference thus far might have either bought them time to get stronger, or maybe just extended the window for other actions to be taken like the rest of VM or MN to now rally and join them. Regardless, I think people throwing the term railroading around are oversimplifying a major game world event that’s been years in the making IRL and a thousand in-game years coming to fruition. We’ve all been theorizing, and now Matt has now made it clear what the stakes are. Not by hinting through NPCs or occasional high rolls from low level characters, by bringing it to the PCs and audience front door.
I have fallen of my chair a few too many times watching this episode from sitting on the edge of my seat. So many shocking appearances and surprises. I like your clips that you put in was really good and I thank you. I can’t believe they are split up
Quick point, Matt said at the end of the episode that he forgot to mention that Imogen's mom broke concentration and that Ira was sent back but it was too little too late for him to do anything. But he is still around and not back in the Fey realm.
@Luboffin No worries, I just wanted to mention it since Matt made it a point after ending the episode, and he doesn't normally foes that unless it's either an important point or story plot that will come up or will play a role. It was a lot to take in, and to review, you did great for such a big and epic episode 😊.
Ok so 1st great recap! 2nd ive got a ton of ideas so i might do 2 seperate comments lol. For one thing when the blinding white light hits them before they get bamf'd, matt says thats it seems familiar. My immediate thought was when Imogen went nuclear during the first Otahan fight. At the time i thought it was just the explosion. My theory is what if there's another player on the board we dont know about? What if when Imogen exploded she was gonna kill her friends by accident so someone or something shielded them with the white light? What if that same person/thing knew that the fight to stop Ludinus was lost and sent them away to give them a chance to regroup, find more information and strike back when the time is right? To take this a step further what if this entity was the Luxon which we know very little about? Do you have any plans to do a video about the Luxon? Im suddenly very interested haha.
@@dracowolf3212 that has absolutely crossed my mind...he and imagine hadn't made it back on the map yet so idk he it came from him necessarily but i do think he's much more integral to the broader story then we thought
Yes. I do like the idea of having more than one 'core' group. Having others join in to have separate campaigns run by others as well. Matt is over worked so much and needs time off just as players do. Having Brennen or Aabria come in for full time GM duty for full campaigns involving a couple or even none of the original cast is a great idea. Expanding the company to beyond just the 8 core members isn't a bad thing. Letting the core 8 have time off isn't a bad thing. Watching others come in and grab our minds and hearts is a GOOD thing. I would really enjoy if Aabria took one split party group with the addition of one or two other new players and ran that every other Thursday opposite Brennan running the second split party group with the addition of one or two other new players. Imagine new players....Robbie/Dorian: Erika/Yu Suffiad: Will Friedle: Deborah Ann Woll: Mary McGlynn: Lou Wilson, etc. There are so many people that could and would fit right in and help create something even bigger. I am so looking forward to the rest of this campaign as well as the future of this entertainment company. Critical Role is establishing a solid foundation to be a rival and not be bought out by the likes of Disney or some other conglomerate. I'm here for it and support it in every way. The future of Bells Hells, C3, and Critical Role has got me very excited. Bring it on!!!
I don’t think it was railroad anymore than any other plot like c1’s ending because they COULD have stopped it. * They could have abandoned the airship plot and had Ira with them to tell them to destroy a mirror instead. * They could have just decided to take out a mirror to see if the recharge stopped. * Beau and Caleb could have rolled higher and been a factor/taken out a mirror * Imogen could have gotten through enough to her mom to possibly convince her not to activate the mirrors * Any of the BH could have taken out the backpack (orym’s last roll took it to 2) Any of those would have given Vax or Kiki a round to attack and greatly changed the outcomes. As for the scattering- I think this was always the option for failing to stop it *for now* - No one really cares about the BH. There’s still something funky going on in the time stop. I personally think they got sent on leylines. So there might be ways back and they might have game time to do it if Ludinus is holding the moon in place but has to still figure out how to break it. They *did* succeed in messing up the plan, just not all of it.
To start off, Ludinus is an 1000 years old wizard. He’s got all of the spells he could possibly need for all of the situations to occur. He has Otahan who seemed specifically built to pummel Kiki and Imogen’s mom to lend any needed psi capabilities. Then throw in a bunch of devoted/brainwashed extras just to distract the party and use up resources and you have an epic cutscene not a battle. Even if Beau and Caleb rolled some 20s in there I think it would just mean they’d have taken out some more power cores or would have distracted from the main event a bit longer. But when you have those mage hunter golems out there for Caleb he’s going to be shut down if the enemy puts effort into getting a collar on him. Which of course Ludinus would-he’s powerful but he knows Caleb to be strong and would want to take him out. I think maybe whatever the key is doing (because I don’t expect the deed is fully done yet) could’ve been slowed by the party at best but no way was it going to be stopped. I also think that was completely badass and devastating just like the Chroma Conclave attack. Narrative juiciness.
I really enjoyed this episode. There were several times I forgot to breathe, but I loved every moment of it! This seems like an ideal place for some fresh faces in the campaign, and I would love for Robbie to come back for a spell:D
I think that quite a few fumbled dice rolls ended up making it feel like there was no other possible outcome, while it actually totally could have played out waaaaaaay better for our squad of heroes
Thanks for the breakdown. Even though I watched the episode I needed you to clarify what it was I witnessed... (I can't dedicate the time to watch it over and over... life, you know).
It was probably already said, but the close-up battlemap shots are something Dimension 20 do all of the time. Looks like Brennan and Matt have been talking.
I was so hoping Mister with the gun would be what destroys Otahan backpack, but just wasn't too be. Was an amazing episode. Regarding the rail road, I think the party had no real way of stopping the ritual, but their actions and rolls will influence what they will be dealing with from now on. It reminded me of Calamity, where we knew it was happening but the players still had a chance to influence how bad it is
Yeah I mean it's more of a show than a streamed game anymore. The amount of damage done to keyless pulled me out of the immersion, but I just kinda had to be like "well what's gonna happen is what's gonna happen" instead of "I wonder how they're gonna handle this"
This episode definitely stressed me out and there were frustrating moments, but mostly because of bad dice rolls. I think all that has happened just adds to the amazing history of the world and sometimes railroading is necessary, like you said, to build on the world. I was at the edge of my seat the entire time and my heart broke once again for Vax and Kiki. I just hope this doesn't mean Vax will be gone forever.
The tragedy that keeps on giving. Kiki and Vax’s story is so beautiful and tragic simultaneously. I literally wept for a moment when the raven feathers scattered and we heard him speak. 😭😭😭
My theory is that Ludinus used Power Word: Stun on Keyleth to draw Vax out. He was always the real target, because of his direct connection to a deity and the power that gives him. It allows him to move easily through the Divine Gate, something Ludinus also wants. Ludinus saved his 9th level spell, True Polymorph, for Vax to turn him into the lens to punch through the Gate. Edit: Oops, forgot that it was some magical device they built to do it. Still likely uses True Polymorph though, as that's the spell that allows changing a creature into an object.
Hey, just a small correction. Matt actually tells the group at the end of the session that Laudna's mom had to release the banishment to move the Vax lense into place. Thanks for the great breakdown!
In my opinion, things on a scale like this require a bit of guard rails. I get why people don't like the idea of railroading, but I also think it makes for a more cohesive story in moments like this confrontation.
my question is this- how did Ludinus know about Vax's relationship with Kiki? and Will the Raven Queen be happy that he captured her campion? also. Kiki and Beau and Caleb better still be alive Matthew Mercer or i will reach through the screen........
I think he would know of their relationship... due to Taryon Darrington's book! Which we know has been published and read by variety of people in Wildemount, ex: Pulmat Sol when they first met him was reading it.
24 hours after this video went live critical role posted a video of the players rolling for hit points for reaching level 9. Don’t know that means for most of the group but I know sorcerers get 5th level spells at level 9. Considering the party is split and they lost their ship I am hoping Laura makes the decision for Imogen to learn the teleportation circle spell It’s not perfect, they don’t know of any permanent circles as far as I know, and it wouldn’t help the split right now but this party NEEDS fast travel Edit* just looked and several ppl are getting 5th level spells. And Ashley is playing a Druid. So tree stride baby we all know how useful that is! This party separation and level up seems to be VERY meticulously planned of Matt’s part
Absolutely loved this episode. The railroading was definitely there but it was so epic and will lead the campaign down such an interesting path. I'm all for it.
I don't think the party getting scattered was Luidus's idea. Possibly lots of people in that pit got sent to various parts of the world... hopefully including Beu, Caleb & Keyleth, but possibly including Luidus himself... We might have a race back to the key on the table.
Also if we do have a 'half the party at the table at a time' situation, the commercial break might be a useful point for Matt to switch over from one cast to the other...
I didn't get the sense that there was any railroading until you mentioned it in your recap. Matt gave them ample opportunity to plan, and he also continually asked for how the players were reacting many times throughout Ludinus's long speech. Matt is not the type to ignore the dice if they were rolling a lot better (they were rolling terribly!) or came up with more creative workarounds to what was happening. The biggest mistake to me was not utilizing Ira to destroy or hamper the key. I could see the argument that he kind of shoehorned Keyleth into the event by delivering a special message to Orym and giving them a nameless tree that she could scry to, but during the speech, I still think they had opportunities to counteract.
Ludinus gave me major Luke Castellan vibes in the PJ books Working with the Titans to overthrow the gods. The way he picked his words, he sounds like Luke trying to overthrow Olympus with Cronos
How is everyone doing? Are we ok? Are we freaking out?! I am! Let me know your theories and predictions for next week in the comments
Plus check out my new 'Ask me about the moons' merch here: rdbl.co/3JU59ap
BTW, has anyone checked in on Pike?
No, I am not ok. 😭
There were too many emotions happening in this episode.
All we can do is trust in Matt, and that he has a plan. And even if something tragic happens to beloved past PC's, it's for a purpose, and not just to be cruel.
Well I do have one. Don't necessarily want to correct your interpretation but I don't think it was Ludinus who split the party.
Banishment variation possible but consider Matt saying familiar whiteness. It happened just like when Imogen was awakened (or however you want to call it) during the Otohan battle.
I don't think I realized it at the time (pretty hard to with everything that happened one after the other to process) but it's that same effect.
In this case I think it was Imogen's mom that did it. Which means she got through to her on some level even if she realized Imogen might die.
@@MorinehtarTheBlue That's... huh, that's a good call.
Nope. Still freaking out.
A foe with a plan crafted over a thousand years will not be stopped by an 8th level party. I agree, this was a cut-scene.
Not a party that rolls that badly anyway. Stranger things have happened in D&D.
If pretty sure, the whole thing would have derailed, if Imogen had succeeded in her persuasion attempt towards Liliana
This seemed like a no win situation. The only thing that might have worked was the skyship crash and Matt kind of just ignored that. I don't know if anything they did would have mattered.
@@Mekias I don't think Matt ignored the skyship crash, though it probably should have done more damage than he allowed it. Of course, wood vs anything metal was never going to be significant.
@@bradleyhurley6755 Don't let Chet hear you say that.
I totally get why people would be upset. Hell, even I noticed that the show felt like it was on auto-pilot at a certain point... but I also think that came as a result of the events that preceded it. It felt natural, as this path was laid out LONG in advance. Ever since they lost Laudna, it was made very clear that Hells Bells were in *way* over their heads on this.
Could they have stopped this from happening? I think so. If they had a good opening strategy, if they called for help sooner, if they all rolled really well, if Ira didn't get banished, if Imogen was able to successfully get her mother to change sides, if Caleb wasn't collared... maybe. That *all* played a critical role (heh) in the outcome. And... like a roller-coaster approaching a large incline... at some point... you're going to hit that drop and there's nothing more you can do. And you just have to watch as everything falls into place.
Ultimately... they were up against an extremely intelligent man who had been gathering power and scheming for over 1000 years. If Matt had let a small group of plucky level 8s beat this guy, it would have felt even more unsatisfying and unnatural to me.
Remember that Ludinus is LVL 15, and the party just turned to LVL 9 for this next episode that's tomorrow. Matt had, as you said, given them old characters that could help them massively against it if they rolled correctly. But I think this happening makes the story more intriguing. We thought we knew where this story was heading a bit but now it's a change of direction. Now we need answers.
Next episode I hope Imogen does 2 things:
1- Contact the other group
2- Try to contact Keyleth to see if she is alright, along with Caleb and Beau
Don't think that Matt is gonna have them split off from the table, but will likely do it by turns of swapping back and forth. As if he did that it's easier than having people leave the table then come back to them next episode. Honestly, I would not be surprised if the group gets back together in 2 or 3 more episodes from now.
I think Ira made it back fine. Matt at the very end held up a mini and said "because of [Imogen's mum] using telekinesis, they return, but too late to do anything else. But they're back!" I can only assume that was concentration on the banish ending and Ira returning.
Yes he's back. And matt even said its important. So we'll see....
Yeah I stuffed up about Ira
Even if Ira was banished, the spell doesn't make it permanent. Technically, one could be banished and then Planeshift right back into the fight (though it doesn't appear Ira had that kind of power).
@@bradleyhurley6755 Ira had legendary resistances, Im baffled he was banished to begin with.
@Sasquatch Bill maybe he used those resistances off screen...honestly I think it was more Matt removing an NPC that he hadn't planned on being around before certain events happened. (Possibly to explain why Ira didn't end up with one of the groups).
One important moment - in the episode when Ludinus is doing something with the Key, there is the moment when that device isn't fully powered so whatever happened, BH did succeed to not let that old elves plan succeed 100%.
The device flickers or something and Ludi says "It will have to do." Or something along the lines.
So that only proves that the BH could have changed the outcome even more.
I was fine with everything, absolutley fine, I lived through craziness in both C1 and C2... Then I saw Liam crying and I lost it.
My initial theory was that the attempt to break the "Divine Prison" of Ruidus was only partially successful, resulting in the prison extending down to include the Malleus Key - and so everyone at the Malleus Key was shunted away from it, outside the prison, along the various ley lines that converge there. Matt made a point to tell each group that they still saw the "aurora" effect of the Apogee Solstice on the ley lines in the sky, indicating that they were all still close to ley lines after the displacement.
Leylines criss cross all over Exandria. Then still seeing the auroras only means they haven't plane-shifted. It WOULD be worth noting if the leylines haven't shifted though, since we were told this solstice has been measured to be 20x stronger than what is needed to shift the leylines
I think that may be the key to things as they stand. Most of the apparatus for the venture was destroyed.
Unfortunately the Luxon Beacon has the potential to undue any degree of success the party may or may not have had.
I don't know how a deity free D&D would work but it seems like an opportunity for a TTRPG system switch if that's what they are going for.
It's all up in the air going into the next session. And to think people were complaining about the slow burn before Campaign 3 started churning out tension session after session.
Ludinus' speech, even though it was clearly fueled by contempt for the prime deities, was also mainly ego driven.
I haven't seen that much hubris since the Keyfish moment, makes you wonder if Asmodeus had a point🤔
At this point I'm pretty sure Perdathos is going to be released but Ludinus is definitely not getting his dream world.
Yeah agreed - lol can you imagine if Ludinus came to them hat in hand to ask for their help putting Predathos back because he realised he was gonna get eaten too?! 😅
He's also plain incorrect. He's conveniently ignoring that the Calamity wasn't a deliberate punishment from the gods, it started because of wizard hubris!
It really reminded me of the Calamity cast with the hubris. Definitely felt like a 'the only thing separating us from the gods is that they can switch planes' moment imo
The irony of Ludinus' own hubris was certainly not lost on me. And the fact that he fully claims to be from and of that time absolutely fits.
It is also ironic that he praises the Raven Queen's ascension while meddling with Fates that are her purview.
Yeah bad contract vibes for sure
I’m curious to see how both Laudna and Imogen will react seeing as they are close and now have been forced apart. Almost reminds of me of when the twins got separated for their missions in the slayers take but on a much larger scale.
Yes! It's going to be so weird! At least Imogen or FCG can send a message.
@@Luboffin Laudna will be able to choose Sending if they level up, and almost certainly will considering the circumstances.
I think it could be really healthy for them both. They’re incredibly codependent and terrified of losing each other, and because of that their relationship’s stagnated. Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of earnest, heartfelt “I love you’s”. But there’s not a whole lot of development, healthy risk taking, or pushing each other to be better (especially on Laudna’s end). I get why they are the way they are, but I think that figuring out who they are without each other could be super important for them both.
I 100% agree, this felt like a dramatic cut-scene with an inevitable end, because of Matt needing to make certain things happen in the story. I’m sure that’s also why he set up the timeline the way it was, which didn’t allow for BH to be a high level party when the solstice occurred. Let’s face it, a level 8 party was not going to defeat a 1000 year old wizard who not only survived the Calamity, but also set this entire ‘destroy all the gods’ scheme into motion. Although I wonder what would have happened if Beau and Caleb rolled better. I’m so afraid for the Empire siblings- especially Caleb. I could definitely see Ludinus being exceptionally cruel and ruthless to Caleb, or if Ludinus is as smart as he seems to be, just killing both of them as soon as possible to prevent their interference.
I wonder what Matt has up his sleeve in order to hamper or prevent the intervention of the other members of VM or MN. Bc even though most members of VM are quite a bit older now, I seriously doubt they would willingly sit out a fight this big, especially Vex and Percy. And we all know that the MN are hard core ride or die for their found family. Mechanically I completely understand why Yasha wasn’t with Beau during these encounters, but in-game wise I’m hard pressed to believe Yasha wouldn’t have been with Beau every step of the way. But tbh, all the members of the MN would have come running had they been able. All that to say, it’ll be very interesting to see what machinations Matt creates to account for all those details, and others.
I do agree though, this campaign has a feeling of finality to it in a way the previous two did not. Win, lose, or draw, I feel like this will be the last campaign we see in this version of Exandria. I 100% agree that Critical Role will have a major shift once this campaign is over in order to completely distance themselves from the DnD IP, so that they can retain creative control without varying degrees of conflict.
I hope we don’t lose the core cast, but I could understand if various players are not able to commit to the time it takes for these multi-year long campaigns. But I would love to see guests like Robbie or Erika make a long standing return, that’d be amazing. And I’m so happy we’re probably going to get more of Chetney and Ashton’s background, been dying to know those secrets since the start of the campaign.
The stakes are higher than they’ve ever been before. Lives of beloved PCs from every campaign are in the balance, and the world itself that we as Critters have been apart of for 8 years might be coming to an end. Is it Thursday yet?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
It wasn't as much frustrating as it was more shocking! The fact that he pulled in other players characters into this big scene was.... amazing and scary all at once.
I actually think Laudna and Ashton destroying that power core had some kind of effect. We won't know for sure yet but why would Matt specifically mention that Ludinus looked anxious when the machine depowered partially? Matt could have a plan to allow like a partial success for the players. Pure speculation though, I could be wrong.
Given Matt’s description of the Berserk/Dark Souls moon, it seems like the party may have bought themselves some time before the moon fully opens up
Wild Theory:
As Ludinas activates the key, he says, "Let us destroy what would unmake them." Now, there is a chance that Matt simply mispoke, but since he kept looking down I have a feeling he was reading the speech word for word. So, assuming Ludinas said whay he meant, his actual plan was to "destroy that which would unmake them" ie; kill Predathos.
Here's where the theory gets crazy, Ludinas is one of the two gods who "died" at the hands of Predathos. We know that when the Raven Queen usurped the god of death, it is unclear if she killed him or not. So, what if gods can not die, instead simply becoming mortal. That could be why Ludinas has used luxon tech to elongate his lifetime.
Also, if he is a fallen god, he would simply be the former god of death? Idk, just my brain exploding with theories.
That is entirely possible. I’ve used that type of trope before….. to add to it….. provoking The Raven Queen with the masks and badges to draw her out since she usurped him is also a possibility. A 1000 year old revenge plot? Or could Ludenas and the Dusk Maven be working together to create a new Panthion in their image?
I would honestly love it if Ultgar was literally Santa; jolly, round, and making toys for kids for free, and Chetney felt underappreciated for his skills and Ultgar refused to pay him more.
Could be a good theory, except that when the group was in Heartmoor Hamlet they met another toymaker that was mentored by Oltgar and she was as paranoid as Chetney when he mentioned that name
@@Chakrazx95 I totally forgot about that. Also, is it spelled "Oltgar"?
My crack theory is that Uptgar somehow knew Chet was in danger and he saved him, and because of Chet's connection, proximity, or friendship with the others, Imogen, FCG, and Fearne too.
@@Chakrazx95 I guess it was a really good theory. lol
I don't think it was a total railroading. The ritual was going to happen, but with degrees of success or failure added by the actions of the party. So they managed to bring the power level down by destroying some of the cores, but left Otahan whole, and we might see the effects of that play out in later episodes. Matt gets to tell his story while preserving the agency of the PCs. It's a difficult needle to thread, but I think they did it.
Amazing recap, as always. You reminded me the Paragon's Call worship the Raven Queen which, I think, their faith was a fundamental part of Ludinus's plan.
In the old days of D&D, RaW said a god was aware of anything its followers could see and hear (in a vast, cosmic consciousness sorta way), so if Ludinus needed Vax, it would make sense he'd want as many eyes of the Raven Queen on deck to see him put the hurt on Keyleth to draw him out.
Great video as always, and I think the Chroma Conclave comparison was spot on! Lots of people in the twitch chat were freaking out but Ludinus is 1000 years old and has been planning this moment for who knows how long so it’s not surprising that he had all the pieces in place. I loved the episode!
Omg that’s a great comparison, this isn’t the climactic ending this is the turning point. Like when the chroma conclave attacked.
I loved how Matt structured this-combat? Battle? Event?-where Ludinus would do a line of his speech, then Matt said, "What are you doing?" to show that it was all happening together. Great mechanic/structure! As to "railroading"-I'm really growing to hate that term. The CR crew is crafting a story together, and it being a game means player-characters have incredible agency... But the DM is a player, too! Basically-this is Matt's turn. And no, the PCs didn't have a "counterspell" powerful enough to stop this story beat. (Remember, D&D is an asymmetric game, where PCs and DMs have different powers. This was a beautiful example of the DM wielding theirs!) 1000 years Ludinus had to plan, scheme, and quietly simmer in his gods-hate; I'd have been disappointed if a rag-tag band of (8th level!) misfits that met a month or two ago could stop him. And now? SO EXCITED to see what happens next! AHHHH!
couldnt agree more. well said. this episode was fantastic and those getting mad about it might need to reevaluate their expectations.
omg I feel like there's so much I want to say hahah. Because this is, without a doubt, one of my all time favourites CR episodes. I was screaming and jumping around and when Vax showed up... I full cried. so many emotions.
Even thought I always felt like this would never turn out in the party's favour, I really enjoyed the recent sessions of them planning and the time before this major event. I agree with you, Luna, I do not think that "railroading" in this case is a bad thing at all. To me it always felt like Ludinus was going to succeed no matter what, but I loved the way it happened and wouldn't have asked for anything to be different, honestly. I just do not want to see my past campaing babies dead or hurt 😠
hahah but yeah, I cannot wait to see what's next, and I'm very intrigued by the idea of having a different cast going forward. I love love love them as they are, but I did always wondered about the future of CR. Its not like they will be doing this forever, and I'm excited to see if and who they'll bring on to the table.
Yeah totally agree, an absolute rollercoaster! It will be call to see who comes on as a guest if that theory is correct
Matt made note at the end that Irah did come back, I think imogens mother used another spell and dropped concentration.
Telekinesis which she used to hand him whatever they transformed Vax into. He was trying to correct the oversight of not mentioning it at the time.
Unsurprising since there was a lot going on and he was just as emotionally keyed up in his own right as everyone else was.
I remember seeing Sam's bingo card earlier in the episode and seeing Vax's name. At the time I thought there was no way Vax was going to show up. I was dead wrong.
I've been refreshing my feed to see when this video would come up. Oh man, what an episode. I haven't been this invested in C3 at any point, and now I'm all on board to see where we will go from here. I really hope we get to see some new people at the table, like you mentioned we might. I'm also hoping we get some more backstory and fleshed out main characters out of this. In a strange way it reminds me of Vecna. Okay, I'll stop now lol
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Yeah I'm excited to see who the guests will be if that theory is correct
I think it was Imogen's mom that shunted everyone away. There weren't any random bystanders that got zapped and plenty were showing up last minute. Keyleth is still alive and somewhere. There were still ruidus born alive around them. Imogen's mom's cry of "I can't see you" sounded very panicked, like she was used to being able to see her, but Imogen was never visible to her. Maybe she's been watching Imogen, knows her friend, and lost contact while she was wearing the circlet.
I love this theory!
I believe a part of the split up Bells Hells closest to Aeor will be able to find Essik or Devexian and finally TIME TRAVEL! They would spin back time to warn Keyleth about the trap, find Caleb and Bo to find a better plan so they didn't get captured (or have them actually call in their M9 friends this time). The ground work is set up!
I like that idea. Turning failure into success. It also allows us to keep Ludinus as our overarching villain and yet keep the campaign from ending so abruptly.
I think you are onto something there.
I love seeing a really smart villain with a good plan, which is something we haven't really seen before. For all the hate, it would be ridiculous for bell's hells to stop a thousand year old legendary wizard.
The best dnd worlds exist beyond the characters. This event was going to happen, and bell's hells chose to watch it unfold. Just because the players want something doesn't mean they get it, that makes their achievements feel meaningless.
Imagine how satisfying it will be when ludinus and otohan are taken down now. That payoff will be because we know how powerful they are and because we know it will be earned. It's not railroading, it's the effects of a living world.
If I tell my players that an army is coming and will attack a certain place in a week and they go mess around, the attack is still happening. If they show up and think 6 people will take out an army without a plan, that's not realistic. Bell's hells has been taking everything at face value, not planning, and kept ignoring all the signs that they were being strung along. I know we all love the players, but what have the characters really done to earn stopping ludinus?
I think the community is trying to railroad Matt lol
Excellent explanation! I also think so, if someone thinks they wouldn't have done things that way, it isn't good. These people would fall apart if they had to play an old-school Greyhawk game.
Who else could they have reached to though? The only one I could think of is Ashton'd lady matron, idr her name, the one whose house he nearly died on.
Railroading (to me, at least) is more about limiting player choice rather than limiting the major story beats. It didn't feel like railroading (again, to me, at least) because they had plenty of freedom to act and do pretty much whatever they wanted, so long as it made sense and they rolled well enough.
It's how I plan plots for LARP: with major story beats set in stone, more or less, but with a ton of wiggle room as to how players get there and what it looks like when they do/ in the aftermath. Sure, sometimes players can surprise you and completely do away with your metaplot, but that doesn't happen very often.
When Matt said, "...a familiar white..." when they were teleported, it made me think of when Imogen accidentally removed the group from the battlefield when she unleashed her power in the initial fight against Otohan. So I wonder if Liliana sent them away, or if the damage they did to the machine resulted in them not going as far as they should have (the moon???). I dunno, man haha I'm so curious!!
I'd say there could have been _degrees_ of success/failures depending on the rolls during the last combat.
Like, it was always on the cards that Imogen could get through to her mother before she cast the spell than morphed Vex into the divine lens... but she rolled poorly when it mattered.
Also, in a single round, Ottohan could have been weakened by losing her Echo Knight machine at the same time that Chetney immobilized Ludinus & stopped his ability to cast spells. Again, bad rolls stopped that from happening. :)
The dice gods clearly wanted to see Exandria shaken to its core!
🔥🎲🙌🎲🔥
That's the exact thing I was going to say. There were multiple opportunities to interrupt and disrupt and stop the plan. But the dice were just not cooperating at all. It's one thing when they work against a single event, but this was just... constant dice interruption :)) Somehow, Ludinus got the dice on his side!
As someone who watched all of season two and all of season three up until episode 49, but then no longer had the time to consistently watch CR anymore, thank you. This is just the kind of recap I need.
I actually think the ship plan could have worked. But Matt was very clear that Ludinus was the reason the Vasselheim ship failed. With how long BH waited to call upon the ship, it became more likely Ludinus would appear.
I think Matt wanted this event to happen, so I think probably the same result would have happened I think. I really hope he talks about some alternate possibilities though in 4 sided dive!!! I need to know!!
@@Luboffin I just clocked Matt having Beau and Caleb say that Ludinus was the key to stop the Vasselheim ship and then it was Ludinus who stopped it. Maybe Liliana or Otohan could have stepped up or Ludinus was hiding in plane sight. I do hope Matt will talk about their chances ot alter or stop this ritual. I for one am pretty sure their actions slowed it down enough so they have still a chance to stop it. Or it worked but creating the beam was only the first step.
@@Luboffin I thought the same thing. I was actually mad to see it didn't work. I couldn't find a spell that could stop 'a whole skyship with a bomb'
@@Luboffin And where were Keyleth's soldiers
@@kylemarrow92 Still at the top of the pit... which is why "Keyteor" came burning in. She recognized things were coming to a head and she needed to hurry.
As far as the potential railroading is concerned, we're also not party to the kind of above-table talks the cast and Matt may have had about story beats and player agency. These people have played together for years, and there's a lot of trust they've built together specifically about the games they play together. He may have said, "hey there's certain story beats I want to reach for this campaign, are you okay with x, y, z?" I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt and trust that they're playing the game they want to play.
100% agreed - Matt could definitely have gone to them all said "look I've got this crazy plan" and they all were keen for it. I mentioned last week that I don't think he would put previous PCs in danger without checking in with the players, for example. They all have a lot of trust.
I agree 100% with you on this. Kind of reminds me of how Travis acts when Matt is cooking up something treacherous or dangerous. Travis looooves to push the red button lol. Viewers love to say "oh they should have done x to prevent y" when some of the players themselves just want to watch it happen lol
I agree but that’s still a definition of railroading. Even if you talk to the party and agree a mission is going a certain way you are still in essence saying “I want it to go this way you on with me making it happen regardless of your actions”
It’s just a super nice way of doing it.
@@reedk2402 Not all rails are bad rails. The train still has to get somewhere.
It's possible but I think Matt likes to do as little handholding as possible. A lot of this was both a wonderful and awful surprise.
There is always a ton of accusations of the manipulation of events on Actual Plays and I don't even like to entertain that sort of thinking.
Just because you don't believe something can or does happen doesn't necessarily mean you are right.
There is just so much that certain parties aren't aware of, and may never be aware of, and a lot of leaping to conclusions.
In the same vein as charges of scripting or calling roll results fake.
100% agree with your parallel with the Chroma Conclave. What better way to setup a hated enemy that players will strive to defeat than to have them take something from you earlier in the campaign.
They were NOT railroaded, they were simply poking their nose into a pond with MUCH bigger fish that already had their own plans and schemes in motion. That makes the world a MUCH more interesting place to be than one where everything revolves around the players and they have the ability to affect and direct any of it.
HUGE PROPS to Ashley for not using her Stonkey's Ring on the Luxon Beacon for "Metagamey reasons".
On the theory side, I'm wondering if Vordo, one of the gods devoured by Predathos before the Schism, might be the Luxon. Vordo being a God of Fate and Order fits nicely with much of the Dunemancy magic that come from it.
Also, ironic that when I Google PREDATHOS definition, I'm asked, "Did you mean PREDATOR?" Coincidence?
This is railroading. No chance to change events in any way is exactly what a railroad is and it is not ok.
@@shinobitatsu there were plenty of chances to change things, they just had bed rolls. Baeu and Caleb getting captured due to bad rolls, ira getting banished, fcg's failed dispel, chetneys failed grapple that would have seperated ludines from the machine - or at least stopped him from activating it, Imogen's failed persuasion check on her mother which was clearly not accounted for by ludines.
Any one of these could have dramatically changed the event, or delayed it long enough
Not to mention it still didn't go smoothly for ludines, without enough power due to what the BH blew up, who knows if it even properly worked, meaning there is still a fight due to the actions they made.
Also, if that wasn't enough, it's not the DM's fault if players CHOOSE to walk into a battle or location WAY under leveled. 1000 year old wizard? Fighter with echo knight abilities that ALREADY has destroyed them? They were never winning a front on assault with those big hitters in play, unless everything went perfectly
Also saw some people say there ain't a spell that would stop an airship - wall of force anyone? It can even be configured into a dome!
You just need to relax and realise that sometimes things just don't go well, and that doesn't just mean 'railroad' because it appears on the surface as if nothing could have happened any differently, when in reality many key rolls just failed.
@@shinobitatsu was it also "railroading" in eXu Calamity when the Brass Ring couldn't stop Asmodeus after the tree was sundered? No. The difference in power between the players and the antagonist was too great for any other outcome to be realistic at that point.
But even though it was historical canon, Brennan gave the players a chance, small though it was, to change history prior to that fateful mistake that rocked the world. A small chance is not the same as a railroad.
Makes me sad to think people didn’t like Robbie playing, he was and still is my favourite player of C3 and he was here for 20 ish or + eps
Another youtuber suggested that the paragon's call was wearing raven masks as a way to anger the raven queen is sending Vax, which I think is quite an idea. When jt comes to railroading, while I do think the end was inevitable, the degree of the failure defiantly felt changeable. If they had figured out some way to stop ludenous (sorry I don't know his names spelling) or if Imogen haven't rolled a 1 on persuasion, it could've ended very differently.
In my head, Luda learned ALL he needed to know by reading a detailed account of Vox Machina in the best selling novel (Available as an audiobook), The Daring Trials and Tribulations of Taryon Darrigton.
Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere else, but I suspect Vax was ONLY able to return because this was an apogee solstice, when “greet miracles” could be achieved that were otherwise impossible. The only other time he appeared beyond death was an absolutely epic use of Wish by a certain bard at a certain wedding.
Going after Otohan’s backpack was a good idea, once Matt fed them the knowledge it gave the Echo Knight abilities, but I’m not sure on the execution. Orym has battle master dice that could add damage and improve accuracy; Fearne had luck points from the potion. Seems like these were forgotten.
Sam also had some clutch ideas that fell short on the rolls; freeing Caleb, a high level wizard, would have been big. Matt does need to have a talk with the players about Guidance - they don’t seem to realize it is an ACTION to cast the SPELL and it takes concentration. FCG used it on his dex check, then almost used it on his Dispel. Aficionado, which means it’ just being spammed I completely ignoring the action rules.
I’m not sure what Chet he was going for. If he were able to corral Luda’s arms, it may have prevented him from casting certain spells, but “grappling” normally only affects speed, not arm movement. I’m excited to see Santa’s Revenge in Uthodern, tho.
The only "rail-roadyness" I got from all of this, came from the fact that nothing they did (ie, destroying the fey realm key, disconnecting/exploding several power sources) didn't seem to matter in the end. However we really haven't seen if that is actually the case, there may have been consequences of Ludinus going through with his plans without adequate power.
It should also be noted that the players were rolling balls when it counted during that last battle. Orym failing to destroy Otohans backpack by 1. Imogen failing to convince her mom to switch sides. Chetney not grappling Ludinus. FCG failing to counterspell the collar around Caleb. Caleb and Beau getting caught. Any of these roles going the other way, might have turned the battle.
Very much an emotional roller coaster of an episode. Matthew Mercer is an evil genius, they way this was all laid out from day one (or maybe even before...)
The fact that the vanguard wore the the maven of ravens emblem it made the chance of the champion to appear. It was on purpose since vax is the only quote unquote divine being connected to a person. They tried once attacking kelieth to try to summon early. It was all planed.
This episode was amazing. So freaking amazing
Matt worked really smartly with Keyleth and our attachment to her, because when she was in danger, both the cast and the critters were begging for something to save her... And Matt did, and then he turned our relief in terror when the second part of Ludinus' plan happened
I don't think Matt will kill all the gods necessarily, since he values his own stories and took the effort of adding the tales of the Bright Queen (where Lolth is pretty much alive) in the timeline after the solstice, although a cosmic change might happen, with the gods transforming or distancing themselves from the world even more, or something like that. But I don't know
I would love for them to bring more long-term guests, but I feel like CR has constructed a system for their cast that is very difficult to alter without angering some fans XD
Idk if you watched 4-sided Dive but Liam told everyone on how Ludinus knew Vax would've shown up to save Keylith. When Liam asked Matt how, he responded with it's not the first time Keylith was attacked. Which means the attack where Orym's husband died, that was when they tested to see if Vax would appear to save his lover which he did.
@@Austin123. exactly, it was very well thought
I think a lot of people have trouble with the idea that helping the party tell a story and giving them exclusively victories have overlap but are not the same, remember when vax died permanently to serve the raven queen, molly dying twice and the resurrection failing(a whole mechanic they agreed upon and are still using), and fjord being powerless for a bit while he was getting over his ex? If the party didn't like this style they wouldn't have been pushing for it every step of the way for over 8 years.
I think I agree with your take on whether this was "railroaded," like it's all on a spectrum. It was definitely difficult in ways that the cast/characters could not have anticipated going in, and they were very honest about trying not to metagame too heavily with some of their decisions (Fearne and the Beacon etc.). I do also think that it's worth thinking about where Ludinus had stacked contingency on contingency for success and where his blindspots were, because I think that Matt did really try to balance that. Like, I do think that if his Raven bait hadn't worked, some other champion would have showed up since at some point Keyleth mentions that there have been multiple false flag attacks around the world that all seemed connected to the Vanguard (plus he was actively antagonizing Vasselheim, though they got there late etc.).
But I think that Matt did a good job of showing that one thing Ludinus was not Prepared for was Imogen getting through to her mother, and I really wonder if Laura hadn't Nat1'd her last Persuasion how things would have shaken out. An extra round or two could have been huge?
For Theory Time, the geothermal Pools of Wittebak have a story hook in Tal'Dorei Reborn that has to deal with the secrets of Ruidus so I wonder if Matt pulled a DM's "move it to where the players can find it" in Marquet or Issylra? The only other place established to have geysers is Kamordah because of Desirat though so maybe geothermal in Exandria is just always Bad News! Also saw a theory that Ultgar had been tinkering with Aeor tech, which feels wild but then again the Assembly did get Yeza to work on dunamis so...? (sorry for the textblocks!)
Seeing Vax get turned into a arcane lens, holy cow, how does bells hells stop what comes next?
Great recap, I'm so glad I found your channel. CR is one of very few things I prefer to experience with a group of people. Thank you for this space to geek out about CR.
As usual, me enjoying a piece of storytelling coming from the US: "well, the villain has a very fair point." But I love Bell's Hells nonetheless, Ashton's glorious tirade from last episode perfectly summarizes my world view (not me being totally an Ashton fangirl).
Thank you Luna! As someone who hasn't watched campaign one nor is much of an expert in Exandria lore I appreciate you explaining all the references and wider context so much, it helps me enjoy C3 even more! ❤ I realised that watching another episode doesn't quite feel complete for me until I watch your review that puts all the stuff in the perspective. :)
No no, Ira came back when Imogen's mum got distracted
Oh I must have missed that
She cast telekinesis, another concentration spell, which cancelled the concentration on banishment :)
@@Luboffin Matt said that after the episode ended.
I think that time spell was old magic above lv 8 spells. That's why it was done when it was done do to needing to draw power from the lay lines making magic that strong possible. Kiki was bait from the very beginning. I think without the players from other campaigns coming to help bells hells was to give bells hells a chance to get away ,the gods or something or someone is giving the party a way to possibly stop the half successful release.
I have not played any D&D but CR and your reviews make me want to. I live in a very small town and I hope I get to have friends like you. Looking forward to next week!
I like how in the end after they've all been teleported it separated all the pairings. Laudna from Imogen, Orym from Fearn and Ashton from FCG. Without their "other halves" to fall back and rely on it opens up for more interesting character and team development!
Super hype for future episodes!
Here's how I think the beginning of Exandria began. The gods were running from Predathos and came upon a world in primordial chaos. They asked the titans if they could stay a while, to which they agreed. Predathos showed up and with the combined might of gods and titans, locked it away. Afterward, the gods start making the mortal races and the titans are like "Hey, we need you to leave. We don't want another one of those things showing up." The gods are like, "Nah." Then the titans replied, "We're not asking," and started attacking. At this time, some of the gods start thinking, "You know maybe we should leave." The Prime Deities said, "No, this is our house now." History as we know it does not reflect this, so the question is, who are actually the 'good deities' here?
Wait, the Matron of Ravens was Ruidusborn? A portion of a god-eater's power resided within her? Is that how she was able to kill a god perhaps?
I believe the loss of power turned the beam from a hammer to crack open an egg to a drill punching through a vault door. It'll get the job done, it's just going to take a bit longer.
Here's a question: Has Imogen lost the feats that Matt gave her previously? Unless Laura wanted a complete respec of her character, I doubt she's lost her powers entirely, but I can see losing those mysterious feats.
I think we're going to end up with something akin to the Slayer's Take episodes from C1, where the party was split for 4 episodes. This might take a little longer though as they're literally a world apart.
Wow..! what a crazy, omg, what is happening episode. I felt all ranges of feelings through out the entire episode, leading to answering questions then back to questions without answers. I felt ambushed just like the party and the extended party was played and completly controled. Once again Matt shows how amazing of a story teller and GM he is and will always be. Just when you think you have his story understood he turns the table on you and you stand there dumbfounded. I'm happy to be one of the many that faces that moment, it leads to great entertainment that very few like Matt can provide. Once your emotionally hooked you can't deny your fully invested. One thought that comes up to me, is that the gods had to know what was going on or at least once the Raven queen felt what was happening to her champion, they or she had to try to do something to help or stop what was going on. I know they can't do anything directly being stuck behind the gates but they must have something they can do together behind the scenes, like a time displacement . The Raven Queen has many spiritual cords she can pull on to effect the outcome. I don't imagine she would let her champion fall without giving him or others that are attached to him some kind of secound chance. Just a thought, what do all of you think about that?
I haven't thought about changing the cast or the system! This is definitely an option. I'm excited! I trust the communication skills of the cast, so I don't worry about railroading. After all, this is their show, we're just here to cheer from the sidelines.
I was looking forward to your video! I find it very useful and fun to rewatch. Thank you for your time and investment 💜
Love the fact that you add in those details from previous campaigns and more generally from Exandria lore, for those of us who are new Critters :)
So, a couple things. iirc, after the episode Matt revealed that Ira wasn't banished fully. Imogen's mom had to drop concentration on banishment before the full minute passed to cast something else. He's still in play.
Now for the touchy subject of railroading and Matt's choices for this part of the narrative. At first, I was annoyed by it. A lot. But, in someone else's recap they'd mentioned that previously Caleb (as played by matt) referenced that Ludinus seemed to be getting sloppy, and that it felt like a trap. First time through, I didn't catch that warning sign. I don't know what BH could have done differently to change that outcome. But my main anger was that, for me on first viewing, it felt like they had no warning of what was about to happen with Keyleth and Vax. But since there was, I just didn't catch it. I've grown okay with how things played out in this specific instance.
I also trust that matt and the players trust each other that it's never done in a way to hurt any of them. We, my fellow critters, are more outside observers who have far less right to be angry over the choices made in the campaign than the players themselves have. I think a subset of the fan base forgets that sometimes.
Yeah I stuffed up about Ira
I loved all of this. Matt bringing all this together from C1, EXU, EXU:C, C2, and now here was beautiful. If there is no feeling of "we can't win this" from the players then the game feels flat. This was a brilliant set of storytelling and letting the dice speak their parts of the story.
I was screaming like a banshee as I watched this episode. It didn't even occur to me until you mentioned it that this may be a way to introduce more characters and or formats. I'm very interested to see how things go from here, thank you for the video!
A theory I saw was that one of the reasons they may have all been wearing symbols of the Dusk Maven would be to “gain favor” with her as another way to potentially draw out her champion
OHHHH that's clever. Although she could probably see them working on all the god killing stuff right?
@@Luboffin lol probably but to the moon cult it was just another fail safe. It seems like they had several angles to try and get to vax
@@Luboffin perhaps it's deliberately aggregating her then? Associating her name with the plan to kill the gods, definitely gets her attention either way.
there were plenty of chances to change things, they just had bed rolls. Beau and Caleb getting captured due to bad rolls, ira getting banished, FCG's failed dispel, Chetneys failed grapple that would have separated ludines from the machine - or at least stopped him from activating it, Imogen's failed persuasion check on her mother which was clearly not accounted for by ludines.
Any one of these could have dramatically changed the event, or delayed it long enough
Not to mention it still didn't go smoothly for ludines, without enough power due to what the BH blew up, who knows if it even properly worked, meaning there is still a fight due to the actions they made.
Also, if that wasn't enough, it's not the DM's fault if players CHOOSE to walk into a battle or location WAY under leveled. 1000 year old wizard? Fighter with echo knight abilities that ALREADY has destroyed them? They were never winning a front on assault with those big hitters in play, unless everything went perfectly
Also saw some people say there ain't a spell that would stop an airship - wall of force anyone? It can even be configured into a dome!
People just need to relax and realise that sometimes things just don't go well, and that doesn't just mean 'railroad' because it appears on the surface as if nothing could have happened any differently, when in reality many key rolls just failed.
thank you!
Orym received a magic sword from the Wilmother. And, she was very involved in the whole Chetney Wolf trial.
That's true! I did forget about that haha. I guess it just feels like the gods haven't been as involved this campaign as in C2.
@@Luboffin that could still be true. if the gods are somewhat omnipotent they might have known about Ludinus needing a sliver of divinity and decided to keep themselves away. Vax could have been defying his god to save Kiki.
@@Luboffin I'd say that the gods weren't very much involved in C2 either. The Dwendalian's were atheists who tolerated deities that fir their value system and the Kryn Dynasty had an as yet unverifiable creation myth in regards to the Luxon.
It's more that we have party members that are less acquainted with and open to faith.
FCG being the prime example as they're clerical abilities were nontraditional and decidedly not faith based.
In that sense the party feels somewhat ill suited as a fit for the ultimate consequences of our villains ambitions.
I agree. My very first thought when i realized they were split was, oh. Here we go. Two parties. Half the bells, with guests, then the other half of the bells and other guests, as they rally new allies to the fight. I think that ludinus succeeded, and the location of the ritual is now an open portal to the prison on ruidus.
With, a sort of mini calamity unrolling over the new few months as the shockwave of destruction slowly washes over the world.
Xandas stops it all with a surprise crossbow shot.
What if the party is split so that we have a new guest DM come and handle one of the halves? If not Brennan (to match the Dimension 20 getting Matt), then maybe Mark Hulmes or Aabria again or maybe someone completely new.
There might be guest's, or considering the make up of the split teams, Beau and Caleb might have been transported with the group to Uthodern and Caduceus could be there at the kiln visiting.
I had a similar thought. The other party might meet up with the Crown Keepers. I have been wondering if the truce during the Calamity was because they didn’t want the Ruidus event to happen at that point. If so, then the Betrayer gods may not be thrilled with what is happening. That could mean Opal’s patron may want her to get involved.
@@meglahey480 if Aeor's anti god weapon was the Malius Key then yea
I think what bothered me about the episode was the way it presented Ludinus as outwitting former player characters, when those characters' choices were based purely on the demands of the narrative.
Keyleth, in particular, understood the stakes and had multiple days to prepare. Yet her approach was to wait until the apparent last minute, jump directly into the middle of the ritual, and hope for the best. Which was certainly a cinematic moment. But the Keyleth we saw as Marisha's PC would have acted sooner, with more backup and with a better plan.
Without the need to facilitate the current narrative, Keyleth, Beau, Caleb, and even a handful of their high level allies could have had the Key out of operation before Bell's Hells even arrived. Ludinus was prepared for the appearance of a divine champion in a specific time and place, but utterly unprepared for the sort of mortal opposition he had every logical reason to expect.
I absolutely loved Ludines' monologue! It's really refreshing to see a bad guy in any type of media know they are doing morally questionable acts and is totally ok with being viewed as the villain. I am so excited to see what comes next!
Previous characters who may make an appearance at the table soon are:
Reanne
Essek (Wild guess - Patrick Rothfuss as GM)
Caduceus
Pike
Scanlan
Vex
Crown Keepers
Absolutely unhinged if Matt has so many NPCs invested in what's happening that he joins as a PC instead of DMing. I would love to see it.
Any of these guests/changes would be a welcome switch up. I think fans have been confused for a bit as to why there haven't been as many guest appearances up to now.
Remember how the First Knight of Avellir could harness divine power with NO connection to any diety? Perhaps that is what FCG has been doing this whole time.
Railroading? Nah. Railroading is when you take away player agency and the cast had agency and used it. They were unsuccessful in their attempts, but they did have agency.
The way this reads to me is that this is a 20th level encounter and the players are 8th level supporting cast. As such they aren’t going to stop the arrow from being loosed from the bow, but they can make the aim less than true. The question is by how much can they deflect the trajectory? The party had some effect by destroying the power cells so that the Malius Key had to be activated with less than full power. The party did fail on several other initiatives that could have impacted the level of success. Imogen failed to turn her mother. FCG failed to pick up the planes walker and failed to remove the circlet from Caleb. The party failed to destroy the backpack. Chutney failed to lay a finger on Ludinous. Had any one of those been a success, the loosed arrow might have been further deflected from the target.
So, railroaded? Nah. Quite the opposite.
Fab recap! This was one of the greatest episodes of campaign 3! I also hope that going forward there might be time for some more side quests or party moments. It feels this has been building since episode 1 which is awesome and amazing, but I definitely feel like I would enjoy to see the party doing something else while they figure out the consequences of this.
Also I wonder how long it will be until we find out if ludinous succeeded. Will something big happen to demonstrate that or will it be a bit of a slow burn?
Also I love the inclusion of "snakin ma way" ... thank you
Yeah maybe it's going to be a slow process, but if it is I can't see Bell's Hells just turning around and do something else rather than trying to stop him. If it's quick then we might see more of those side quests 🤔
My gosh, these recaps are a life saver. Thank you Luna! Also, love your t-shirt!
I'm not sure you're right, FCG was given the coin, and encouraged to pursue the Changebringer by Imahara Joe, who is an NPC, and this was indeed initiated by Matt.
True! But from then on we haven't heard anything from the change bringer. I wonder if it was meant to be a bit of a red herring
Although there was that weird humanoid beetle thing…
@Luboffin or perhaps Matt would lean more into it, if it seemes like Sam was taking it seriously
This episode definitely had the feel of a cutscene, in which some world shaking event comes along. I found it really interesting that for the most part the players were separated from their original comfort person (Orym and Fearne, Imogen and Laudna, Ashton and FCG). Definite overtones of the Slayer's take episodes. I am so hoping we do get a bunch of guests. For one, I would love to see the Crown Keepers, in part because I want to know what is going on with Opal. I half expected Yu to show up at some point while they were in the Fey realm, but I certainly hope to see more of them soon. I super hope that we do get to see guest players. I love the way they add to the table dynamics.
It would not surprise me in the least if this world event gives us the transition to a fully Matt-brewed game system. They did warn us at the beginning that "all bets are off", and that this season was going to be a wild ride. I'm excited and scared to see what will happen next!
I know that there were some grumbles about fan service earlier in the campaign when characters from C1 and then C2 were being involved. Clearly to me, the fans being serviced are the players themselves. Watching all of their reactions as those characters made their appearances over the course of the game has been such a gift. This episode was a real gem in that regard. Marisha jiving around in her seat at first only to end up in full perch with her arms wrapped around her legs was a mood. Laura and Liam in full Twin hug mode. Travis reaching across the table. Ashely covering her face in the Little Mister plushie. Taliesin with his jaw dropped wildly cussing into his hands. All of it was magic. When Liam started tearing up it absolutely broke me.
You summarized it very well. It was just everyone running around, waving their arms, and yelling, "No way! What the fuck?! Aaaaaaah!"
I think Matt seeded some hints that the Key wasn’t doing so hot there at the end. It doesn’t seem like his style to take the characters decisions like, “we’re gonna destroy this malleus key tether in the Feywild” only to put them in a doomsday scenario where they just witness things happen. I think this is setting up the party’s big moment. Their interference thus far might have either bought them time to get stronger, or maybe just extended the window for other actions to be taken like the rest of VM or MN to now rally and join them. Regardless, I think people throwing the term railroading around are oversimplifying a major game world event that’s been years in the making IRL and a thousand in-game years coming to fruition. We’ve all been theorizing, and now Matt has now made it clear what the stakes are. Not by hinting through NPCs or occasional high rolls from low level characters, by bringing it to the PCs and audience front door.
I’m so grateful for your recaps! There was SO MUCH this episode!! And I love the red theme
I have fallen of my chair a few too many times watching this episode from sitting on the edge of my seat. So many shocking appearances and surprises. I like your clips that you put in was really good and I thank you. I can’t believe they are split up
Quick point, Matt said at the end of the episode that he forgot to mention that Imogen's mom broke concentration and that Ira was sent back but it was too little too late for him to do anything. But he is still around and not back in the Fey realm.
Yeah I stuffed up about Ira
@Luboffin No worries, I just wanted to mention it since Matt made it a point after ending the episode, and he doesn't normally foes that unless it's either an important point or story plot that will come up or will play a role. It was a lot to take in, and to review, you did great for such a big and epic episode 😊.
Ok so 1st great recap! 2nd ive got a ton of ideas so i might do 2 seperate comments lol.
For one thing when the blinding white light hits them before they get bamf'd, matt says thats it seems familiar. My immediate thought was when Imogen went nuclear during the first Otahan fight. At the time i thought it was just the explosion. My theory is what if there's another player on the board we dont know about? What if when Imogen exploded she was gonna kill her friends by accident so someone or something shielded them with the white light? What if that same person/thing knew that the fight to stop Ludinus was lost and sent them away to give them a chance to regroup, find more information and strike back when the time is right?
To take this a step further what if this entity was the Luxon which we know very little about? Do you have any plans to do a video about the Luxon? Im suddenly very interested haha.
Interesting! I hadn't thought of that at all. If I ever get time I'd love to do a Luxon video
Possible plot twist: Ashton's Luxon scar has been protecting them this whole time
@@dracowolf3212 that has absolutely crossed my mind...he and imagine hadn't made it back on the map yet so idk he it came from him necessarily but i do think he's much more integral to the broader story then we thought
Yes. I do like the idea of having more than one 'core' group. Having others join in to have separate campaigns run by others as well. Matt is over worked so much and needs time off just as players do. Having Brennen or Aabria come in for full time GM duty for full campaigns involving a couple or even none of the original cast is a great idea. Expanding the company to beyond just the 8 core members isn't a bad thing. Letting the core 8 have time off isn't a bad thing. Watching others come in and grab our minds and hearts is a GOOD thing. I would really enjoy if Aabria took one split party group with the addition of one or two other new players and ran that every other Thursday opposite Brennan running the second split party group with the addition of one or two other new players.
Imagine new players....Robbie/Dorian: Erika/Yu Suffiad: Will Friedle: Deborah Ann Woll: Mary McGlynn: Lou Wilson, etc. There are so many people that could and would fit right in and help create something even bigger. I am so looking forward to the rest of this campaign as well as the future of this entertainment company. Critical Role is establishing a solid foundation to be a rival and not be bought out by the likes of Disney or some other conglomerate. I'm here for it and support it in every way. The future of Bells Hells, C3, and Critical Role has got me very excited. Bring it on!!!
I don’t think it was railroad anymore than any other plot like c1’s ending because they COULD have stopped it.
* They could have abandoned the airship plot and had Ira with them to tell them to destroy a mirror instead.
* They could have just decided to take out a mirror to see if the recharge stopped.
* Beau and Caleb could have rolled higher and been a factor/taken out a mirror
* Imogen could have gotten through enough to her mom to possibly convince her not to activate the mirrors
* Any of the BH could have taken out the backpack (orym’s last roll took it to 2)
Any of those would have given Vax or Kiki a round to attack and greatly changed the outcomes.
As for the scattering- I think this was always the option for failing to stop it *for now* - No one really cares about the BH. There’s still something funky going on in the time stop. I personally think they got sent on leylines. So there might be ways back and they might have game time to do it if Ludinus is holding the moon in place but has to still figure out how to break it. They *did* succeed in messing up the plan, just not all of it.
Also there were probably space and time for any of them to interject into the scene to Counterspell, silvery barbs, attack Otohan, or something.
That was a great recap, Luna!
I can not wait for this Thursday night!
To start off, Ludinus is an 1000 years old wizard. He’s got all of the spells he could possibly need for all of the situations to occur. He has Otahan who seemed specifically built to pummel Kiki and Imogen’s mom to lend any needed psi capabilities. Then throw in a bunch of devoted/brainwashed extras just to distract the party and use up resources and you have an epic cutscene not a battle. Even if Beau and Caleb rolled some 20s in there I think it would just mean they’d have taken out some more power cores or would have distracted from the main event a bit longer. But when you have those mage hunter golems out there for Caleb he’s going to be shut down if the enemy puts effort into getting a collar on him. Which of course Ludinus would-he’s powerful but he knows Caleb to be strong and would want to take him out. I think maybe whatever the key is doing (because I don’t expect the deed is fully done yet) could’ve been slowed by the party at best but no way was it going to be stopped. I also think that was completely badass and devastating just like the Chroma Conclave attack. Narrative juiciness.
I really enjoyed this episode. There were several times I forgot to breathe, but I loved every moment of it!
This seems like an ideal place for some fresh faces in the campaign, and I would love for Robbie to come back for a spell:D
I think that quite a few fumbled dice rolls ended up making it feel like there was no other possible outcome, while it actually totally could have played out waaaaaaay better for our squad of heroes
There were a few dice rolls that went well that I was frustrated didn’t seem to do much, but yeah generally they did not roll well 😅
Thank you for recaping all of this. The episode had a LOT going on and now I think I understand everything
With the party being split at the end, I wonder if it’s to set up some inter campaign character team ups! Can’t wait for the next episode!
Thanks for the breakdown. Even though I watched the episode I needed you to clarify what it was I witnessed... (I can't dedicate the time to watch it over and over... life, you know).
It was probably already said, but the close-up battlemap shots are something Dimension 20 do all of the time. Looks like Brennan and Matt have been talking.
Also, Matt mentioned that when Imogen's Mom cast Levitate to put Vax in the telescope, she dropped concentration on Banishment so Ira was back.
I was so hoping Mister with the gun would be what destroys Otahan backpack, but just wasn't too be.
Was an amazing episode. Regarding the rail road, I think the party had no real way of stopping the ritual, but their actions and rolls will influence what they will be dealing with from now on. It reminded me of Calamity, where we knew it was happening but the players still had a chance to influence how bad it is
Yeah I mean it's more of a show than a streamed game anymore. The amount of damage done to keyless pulled me out of the immersion, but I just kinda had to be like "well what's gonna happen is what's gonna happen" instead of "I wonder how they're gonna handle this"
This episode definitely stressed me out and there were frustrating moments, but mostly because of bad dice rolls. I think all that has happened just adds to the amazing history of the world and sometimes railroading is necessary, like you said, to build on the world. I was at the edge of my seat the entire time and my heart broke once again for Vax and Kiki. I just hope this doesn't mean Vax will be gone forever.
The tragedy that keeps on giving. Kiki and Vax’s story is so beautiful and tragic simultaneously. I literally wept for a moment when the raven feathers scattered and we heard him speak. 😭😭😭
My theory is that Ludinus used Power Word: Stun on Keyleth to draw Vax out. He was always the real target, because of his direct connection to a deity and the power that gives him. It allows him to move easily through the Divine Gate, something Ludinus also wants. Ludinus saved his 9th level spell, True Polymorph, for Vax to turn him into the lens to punch through the Gate. Edit: Oops, forgot that it was some magical device they built to do it. Still likely uses True Polymorph though, as that's the spell that allows changing a creature into an object.
Hey, just a small correction. Matt actually tells the group at the end of the session that Laudna's mom had to release the banishment to move the Vax lense into place. Thanks for the great breakdown!
Fantastic job. Such an episode. Where are they going???!!!???
In my opinion, things on a scale like this require a bit of guard rails. I get why people don't like the idea of railroading, but I also think it makes for a more cohesive story in moments like this confrontation.
my question is this- how did Ludinus know about Vax's relationship with Kiki? and Will the Raven Queen be happy that he captured her campion? also. Kiki and Beau and Caleb better still be alive Matthew Mercer or i will reach through the screen........
I think he would know of their relationship... due to Taryon Darrington's book! Which we know has been published and read by variety of people in Wildemount, ex: Pulmat Sol when they first met him was reading it.
24 hours after this video went live critical role posted a video of the players rolling for hit points for reaching level 9.
Don’t know that means for most of the group but I know sorcerers get 5th level spells at level 9. Considering the party is split and they lost their ship I am hoping Laura makes the decision for Imogen to learn the teleportation circle spell
It’s not perfect, they don’t know of any permanent circles as far as I know, and it wouldn’t help the split right now but this party NEEDS fast travel
Edit* just looked and several ppl are getting 5th level spells. And Ashley is playing a Druid. So tree stride baby we all know how useful that is!
This party separation and level up seems to be VERY meticulously planned of Matt’s part
Absolutely loved this episode. The railroading was definitely there but it was so epic and will lead the campaign down such an interesting path. I'm all for it.
So chuffed one of my favourites came back! 🥰
I don't think the party getting scattered was Luidus's idea. Possibly lots of people in that pit got sent to various parts of the world... hopefully including Beu, Caleb & Keyleth, but possibly including Luidus himself... We might have a race back to the key on the table.
Also if we do have a 'half the party at the table at a time' situation, the commercial break might be a useful point for Matt to switch over from one cast to the other...
@@Cassius335 ooo thats a fun idea. but i suspect it will be that they get to take some weeks off in between.
Matt did say at the end that Liliana had to drop concentration on Banishment to cast Telekinesis, so Ir reappeared just as Ludinas used the key.
I didn't get the sense that there was any railroading until you mentioned it in your recap. Matt gave them ample opportunity to plan, and he also continually asked for how the players were reacting many times throughout Ludinus's long speech. Matt is not the type to ignore the dice if they were rolling a lot better (they were rolling terribly!) or came up with more creative workarounds to what was happening. The biggest mistake to me was not utilizing Ira to destroy or hamper the key. I could see the argument that he kind of shoehorned Keyleth into the event by delivering a special message to Orym and giving them a nameless tree that she could scry to, but during the speech, I still think they had opportunities to counteract.
Ludinus gave me major Luke Castellan vibes in the PJ books
Working with the Titans to overthrow the gods.
The way he picked his words, he sounds like Luke trying to overthrow Olympus with Cronos