One must remember these platforms were built in the age of Middle-earth, when Hobbits and Dwarves roamed and thus rush hour peaks were pretty manageable.
And of course Dwarves were at home underground and Elves had no fear of losing their footing. However, the recent explosion in the Troll population causes some concern.
It is my great pleasure to present to you, in the presence of the travelling public, that all of you, have collectively won The Internet! Please pose for your pictures as I present all of you with the Keys to the Underground!
Ahahaha, loved the calling out of MyLondon for ripping off your work. My news aggregator keeps suggesting their articles and I keep thinking "Hmmmm, where have I seen this before..." :D
I was a guard in the Northern line in 1997. Between Clapham South and Common I lost the pilot light (72ts). Gave it a couple of seconds then stopped the train. Still no pilot light! Checked the rear cab and the Motorman checked the front to see is if anything had tripped out. All was in place. We checked every door all closed. Put the guards key in the front car still no pilot light. Went back to the rear guard’s position keyed on still no pilot light. Called the Motorman to proceed at caution to Clapham Common. When we arrived there, I was not the most popular person on the Northern line because I stuck to the rule book. If you had to detrain at either Clapham Common or North you had to stop a train on the opposite platform and show the Guard a red light then instruct him not to move the train until we had detrained, departed and another train arrived to take the passengers then he could move. This went down well at 07:45 on a Monday morning. We ran the train empty to Golders depot off the main from Hampstead. I took my key out and a fitter got on put his key in and got a pilot light. Typical 72 stock.
@@Planet__3 its the term we use for the door closed visual on the Underground. If its lit your doors are closed if not you have a door open or fault on the door interlock circuit.
It's little anecdotes like this that really make the internet. JH provides tremendous information, but it's these stories that turn them 'real.' Surely we can all relate to this story: "Look, it might be fine now, but it wasn't an hour ago." Trust me, working with buses this happens all the time. In fact, I have one waiting for me on nightshift tonight that I know I'll get in and find nothing wrong, yet two of our best drivers have had it drop out of drive.
Euston actually retained its narrow, dangerously overcrowded island platform until as late as 1965. Like Angel, it then got a very wide southbound platform (stretching over the site of the former northbound track) and a brand new northbound platform. In that case, this work was done in order to give cross-platform interchange with the new Victoria Line then under construction. At the very south end the southbound platform still narrows, as there is a tiny bit of the former northbound line still there, safely hidden behind a wall.
Interesting, but the _"south end the southbound platform"_ (if _south end_ is referring to the southbound end) is actually at the north-east end of the southbound platform. The line is aligned south-west to north-east at Euston, assuming we are talking about the City branch.
What is real fun is the fact that the Northern line is Southbound to Kings Cross and the Victoria Line is Northbound, forget the circle, Met and Hammersmith and City lines from Euston Square as they go Eastbound to Kings Cross.
@@brianfretwell3886 sort of , you interchange northbound to northbound , but the train you change to runs in the opposite direction to the one you just got off, which is very confusing - I always check the map.
I used to have to go to Clapham South on a weekly basis for work. I also used Clapham Common. On the first occasion I went to Clapham Common, I alighted from the train not knowing that it was an island platform because I’m totally blind. I always take a big step off the train, to avoid any gap that there may be between the train and the edge of the platform. My momentum caused me to take another step which was unfortunately off the other side of the island platform. These ones really are very narrow! I get the impression that the one at Clapham South might be slightly wider but I wouldn’t want to be quoted on it. I also used to use the angel station regularly as well. This would be in the late 80s and early 90s. I was always surprised there was never an accident there because the RNIB had offices in Goswell Road near the angel station. Many blind people would descend to the platforms at the end of the workday, and I’m sure someone must’ve fallen off at some stage. That station was always packed during rush-hour. I remember the Clapham Common incident as it was the most scary of my life I think. As I stepped off the other platform, I could hear a train in the distance! If my pants weren’t brown beforehand they certainly were afterwards. Anyway I managed to climb up safely obviously, or I wouldn’t be writing this. I love your videos, and make a point of listening to them whenever they post. Thanks very much
@@bobwalsh3751 Depends also which end of the platform you fall off, if it is at the departing end then the train is slow enough to stop. Anyway how does someone totally blind type a comment ?
ive always found the scariest part of the narrow platforms to be when a tube approaches from both directions simultaneously! it gets incredibly windy and ive never felt in more of a rush to get on a tube
All platforms on the Moscow metro are island platforms, only they are about 10 metres wide so easily able to deal with the huge crowds at rush hour. It's busier than London too. Actually, I think it's a better design for ease of use. If you want to go back in the opposite direction, you just cross the platform, rather than going up and down stairs and through additional corridors. Friends meeting up from different parts of the city often arrange to meet on the platform at a designated station, which means they don't have to wait outside in the cold, or stand in the ticket hall to wait.
When I use the Tube (which is not often these days) I always try to stand against a wall so that no-one can push or jog me from behind. Just a precaution against nutters. At the Claphams this wouldn't be possible, but the station 'furniture' down the middle of the platforms might serve as a substitute.
My Dad cycled from Leytonstone to Ilford every workday in the fifties. My elder brother cycled from Leytonstone to Buckhurst Hill for work until he could afford a motor bike. It wouldn't have crossed their mind to spend money on public transport. Those island platforms really worried me as a little kid.. Ta Jago.
Apparently one of my neighbours (when I was really young) would cycle from West London to Northampton on Sunday afternoon/evening, live there in digs till Friday and cycle home to his wife and family after lunchtime. Worked in a shoe factory. 1960s, fewer cars at the time. No idea why they didn't move up there (they were in a council house in London so that may explain it, or extended family).
@@TerryClarkAccordioncrazy True. I saw a short documentary on Swindon shot in the early 60s recently. There were more pushbikes than cars on the road back then.
Watch "Heart of the Angel", a documentary from 1989 available here on TH-cam and on BBC iPlayer. A facinating look at how staff coped (or didn't cope) with the old Angel Station. It's pretty depressing, Angel was in desperate need of a refurb.
Love this documentary. Especially amusing is the lift operator who thinks the Earth is flat and that the World is coming to an end soon. The first we know is not true, the second.......well who knows?
A Tale far from the Tube: The Glasgow Subway (which runs in tube tunnels) has narrow island platforms at most of its stations and I believe they have a similar overcrowding problem, some of the stations have had additional side platforms added to help with this problem with a glass barrier down one side of the island platform for safety. This could be a quicker solution for the Clapham North and Common Stations, just a thought....
A similar step was taken at a Toronto Subway station - Union, which serves the primary train station, had an island platform with overcrowding issues until a new side platform was added for one travel direction.
Originally all the Glasgow Subway had narrow island platforms until it closed (in 1977?) to be rebuilt. Some of the busier stations were given side platforms with the island platform removed, and one or maybe two were given only one side platform while keeping the island platform so ended up with effectively three, hence the glass barrier so you didn't try to enter/exit on the wrong side of the train. I think they are Ibrox and Buchanan Street. Merkland Street subway station was completely relocated and built anew below the new Partick railway station which itself replaced Partick Hill railway station, the new affair being simply called Partick.
@@neilbain8736 island platforms were a real safety risk on the Glasgow Subway on Match days with crowd control frequently needed at Ibrox station hence the addition of a new platform.
Back when all Glasgow underground stations were islands, a school friend told me that with the line being circular the trains never changed directions so they ran stock that only had doors on one side. I have not been able verify that , and wonder if anyone can confirm or rebut that?
Jago, your mention of 2d tickets took me back to my youthful tube journeys. The tickets were 1 inch wide and 2,5 inches long, canary yellow on the front and rust brown on the back, very stiff with a magnetic strip inside containing the face value code. Each station had a chart in the ticket hall with prices for ALL LT Underground Stations. You looked up your destination (alphabetically), read off the price and put the coins in a ticket machine, which spat out the ticket. If you bought a 10 p ticket and rode the whole length of the line, the barriers at the other end wouldn't open, because they could read your start of journey off the magnetic strip. Before you could say "Jack Robinson", the LT inspector would be standing next to you: "Now then young man, can we be of assistance?" (people were polite then).
In the mid-1960s, during my second and last visit to London, I remember using those machines. I also remember handing the used ticket to a gent when exiting the station. Unless I am confusing London Transport with the Paris Metro.
@@delurkor That sounds right. There were ticket collectors in those days and no automatic gates. I used to ask them if I could keep the ticket as a souvenir and they would generally let me do so and put an X through it. I built up a fair collection. My 2 most recent ones are for Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station Station (xxx) ... Had to be careful not to use them when exiting and getting them swallowed (I had a travelcard).
@@TheClockwise770 the green versions were also used by BR, that was back in the day when Ealing Broadway was two separate stations (one for Western Region and one for Underground) and a tank engine push and pull service from there to the bay at Greenford. A return ticket had a perforation down the middle and you gave up half of the ticket on each part of the journey. This left you with a piece of cardboard about the size of a postage stamp to keep safe during your day out.
@@trueriver1950 oh yes I recall that now, I often lost the return portion and had to try and convince the ticket collector at Finchley Central that I'd genuinely lost it. He wa a great guy and when he saw me would just let me strait through. Wouldn't happen these times
Island platforms are far more common in North America. In Seattle and Portland, for example, most platforms are islands. This may be a budgetary issue. Though none of them are as narrow as the Clapham islands! Those do look terrifying, and I'm used to the stations in the Pacific Northwest!
Not so much in Canada. The TTC only has a few, and they are far wider than the Clapham island platform. Although at Rush Hour the St. George's platform is extremely crowded.
This purely boils down to era and type of rail construction. Island platforms are a lot more common on modern railways owing to station box construction, in many North American cities rail infrastructure has been built a lot more frequently in comparison with European/UK railways which originate from the late 19th early 20th centuries.
In Seattle the island platforms on the Sounder line are generally pretty wide, so I've never been worried about those. Also, the busiest part of the line in Downtown Seattle has standard platforms, but it had busses running through the tunnels for many years before the Sounder lines were built.
When approaching Stockwell Station from the North you will notice a stretch of track where you can see the track which goes in the opposite direction. This is the site of the original island platform. The platforms are now further south with the doors opening on the left instead of the original right.This came in very handy when the Victoria line was built for cross platform interchange with northbound to northbound and southbound to southbound as the vast majority of passengers change trains in these directions of travel.
You could see the same sort of thing when approaching Finsbury Park from the south, as the Victoria and Piccadilly lines converged. But those were going in the same direction.
For those advocating platform edge doors, the snag is that the screens take up a significant amount of width so would make the remaining platform even narrower. Plus they don't work well on platforms with any curvature and you have to find a way to mount the mechanism. Much easier to design in from new (Jubilee line extension) than to retrofit.
@@WMD4929 thats less of an issue, with the Jubilee running 1996 coaches, which had PED tech retrofitted themselves, the same procedure could be applied to the 1995 Northern line rolling stock aswell...
@@PistonAvatarGuy yeah when a train is coming into the station no one should be standing within the width of a railing anyway so space wouldn't change. Much like with the bullet train stations in japan
I'm grateful for (safely wide) island platforms for two selfish but practical reasons: (1) It becomes impossible to accidentally go up or down to the wrong platform (for the wrong direction train) and thus waste time correcting the mistake. (2) If i did accidentally go in the wrong direction on the train, or, i accidentally went past my intended target station, then it's a quick and easy matter to switch to the other direction train to come back.
But this type of transfer is rather the exception and station design should follow the requirments of majority of passengers. So in transfer stations, islands are OK, but with trains from the other line on the other side, so that majority of transferers have shortest ways.
I remember having to use Angel when I had a temp job in 1992 with a charity that raised funds for Guys Children’s Hospital. I had to report there a few times a week. Freaked the hell out of me the first time I got off there as I’d only seen such proportionally thin platforms on model railways! 🤔 It was particularly disconcerting when alighting from the northbound platform, the train I’d got off began to depart and then a southbound service suddenly belted through the portal. The noise, rapidly moving trains on either side seemingly within touching distance, plus the swirling breezes throwing themselves around made it quite the experience 😳 Then again, within a few weeks I had got used to it, albeit I’d always ensure I checked in at a quieter time as rush hour was awful. Funnily enough, I went to a Clapham Common event with my then girlfriend about ten years ago. I’d forgotten that it still had its island platform and poor Kelly was a bit freaked out, not least because the platform was pretty rammed. Reminded me of my first time at Angel all over again 😅 Cheers Jago, great video again 😎👍🍀🍻
I remember the angel platforms before they rebuilt the station. I absolutely hated them as a kid... made me really uneasy. I'd completely forgotten about it until the start of this vid
Honestly those island platforms look narrow even if they had a wall on one side, let alone being between two tracks! I do in general prefer Island platforms to side ones on underground lines because it means you don’t need to worry about which direction you’re going to navigate the station entrances, nor do you dash above/below the tracks because the entrance is closer to one side than the other and watch as your train pulls away before you get there.
Next time I'm at Clapham Fire Station i'll ask how many "one unders" (people on tracks/under trains) the station attends at Clapham North and Clapham common. I'm sure it happens from time to time because it happens basically daily somewhere on the network.
The need to differentiate between accidental and deliberate (suicide) "one unders" is needed here. There are indeed sadly quite a few suicides that involve people who deliberately jump under trains but careful enquiries would be needed to be carried out ,including examination of CCTV footage, to establish wether a person under a train at a station with an island platform was the result of an accident or an intentional act.
@@LondonEmergency999 I didn't say there was a difference. What I said was there was a need in the case of island platforms to establish what was due to accidents and suicides to establish how dangerous island platforms are. Also a procedure is in place to restrict access to ANY station that is becoming overcrowded to reduce incidents of people falling under trains.
@@LondonEmergency999 Just a note on the use of the English language. The bracketed word suicide in my comment would need a comma after it in order for a difference to be established between accident and suicide. Since no comma was used one under,which appears in quotation marks, pertains to both accident and suicide incidents. Where I used the word differentiate that was used to establish the need to make a difference not to suggest there was one.I hope that's clear.
Great video Jago. Used to use angel when it was an island platform.. disconcerting at peak times! I had wondered about MyLondon's content as it seems to mirror yours !
Excellent video. I grew up beside Clapham Common and the station of that name was my nearest Tube. Whilst I was aware of the history of the Northern Line I did not know why CC and CN Island platforms were quite so narrow. Certainly I always took extra care to stand well back from the platform edges as I had to commute during peak hours. The only accident I witnessed was a woman falling down the rather narrow access stairs although she did not appear to be seriously hurt.
The one platform between two tracks arrangement is often actually a good thing, facilitating cross-platform transfers, which are greatly beneficial to passengers. That said, this is only useful if the tracks on each side are different lines, rather than just the same line going the other way, and the platforms Do need to be wide enough to safely accommodate the amount of passengers moving through (which the one(s) the video is about certainly don't seem to be), while curved platforms make additional safety features difficult to implement.
You said that King William St had an island platform and that is sort of true. However, when it was originally opened, it actually had the exact opposite. It had one track (remember, it was a terminus) and two platforms, one for boarding and one for exiting. Five years later it was rebuilt with an island platform to increase capacity since it could have two trains waiting in the station at once, but the alignment and design of the station were totally wrong and it was abandoned just five more years later with a totally new alignment for the line to London Bridge, Bank, and Moorgate.
I used to live in Morden so would regularly go through the Clapham stations when going to London as a kid. Never had a cause to get off in Clapham but the idea of being on that middle platform used to terrify me. I used to have a regularly recurring nightmare that I still have as an adult of being on there as two trains came in simultaneously with the wind either blowing or sucking me onto the tracks 🤣
Those islands look so scary, dangerous and unnecessarily busy creating. I think they should try to upgrade them soonish. And the Bakerloo trains And the list goes on I know it isn’t cheap but still
@@highpath4776 Pity the plan for platforms 15 & 16 at Man Picc. fell by the wayside, as they would have been used for westbound trains, allowing 13 & 14 to be used for eastbound trains, which in turn would have reduced conflicting passenger flows. We got the Ordsall Chord instead, which increases the number of trains using 13 & 14 despite them having long been acknowledged to be dangerously overcrowded at times. :(
This takes me back - I used to work just opposite Clapham North, and used it all the time. Also, I'd always wondered about the extra wide platform at Angel. So - two for the price of one today. Nostalgia hit and the answer to my question re Angel. Result!
Thanks Jago - another brilliant video about the curiosities of the tube. I've always been glad that I have never had to board/change trains at either Clapham Common or Clapham North. I think TFL should build platforms on either side of the tracks 🚇. It would involve a lot of expensive tunnelling though, not to mention the underpinning of the street-level structures.
In the 70s I remember being terrified of Angel. Now I find most tube stations terrifying - I have to keep my back to the wall or hold onto a seat. I can’t drive over big bridges either. It’s the fear I might suddenly want to jump off. I don’t think this unusual. I’m glad to be reminded to avoid Clapham,
Jago. Back in 1966 I was an apprentice from South of the water and on several occasions had to use The Angel towards rush hour with its single platform - crowded it certainly was -sweltering hot it’s a wonder no one was pushed on to the track -Another cool vlog - keep em coming sir !! 👍👏👏🇬🇧
I witnessed a 'one under' at Angel in the 80s, when it was still a narrow island platform. Nasty. At the time I was living at Clapham North and avoided using that station completely for several months, preferring to get the bus to/from Stockwell to use the tube from/to there for my daily commute into Leicester Square.
Totally unrelated to anything, but I recently saw one of your comments being responded to by Steve Shives in one of his not actually trek actually comment response videos, and it drew a very pleasing circle around my TH-cam universe. Also, great video once again, thanks!
I lived in London from 1966 until 1974. I lived at Tooting Broadway and was a regular user of the 'Misery Line' as it was commonly known. Depending on what I was doing and where I was going, the Claphams were very familiar to me. I never liked them because of the island platforms, which were always very dark, compared to other stations on the Northern Line. It was the hot, fetid smell I hated the most.
Can't believe you uploaded this the same day I've ever stood on the Clapham common platform. I go past it most days and have always wanted to experience the unease of the trains rushing in and out on either side.
As I understand it Door barriers can’t be fitted to old curved platforms because of the platform train gap, that results from curved platforms. If door barriers were fitted not only could people still fall into the gap, but the gap continues between the barrier and the train, causing yet more space to trap someone or part of someone.
Hurrah! There's been all the end-of-central, where I was a wee small; and the Battersea bits - I used to live up the junction. Now I'm in Edinburgh, we have the tram, which is very nice and quite useful; buses which are...buses, and the railways which are in places utterly stunning. Well, I shall be back in TfL land in a couple of weeks, and I can see many of these old haunts agin.
The Edinburgh Trams are great but I wonder how useful they are to the locals. It's primary purpose appears to be getting to and from the airport. I've used it for that purpose and very few people seem to get on or off at intermediate stops.
@@caw25sha I’m local, staying close to the York Place terminus. While they’re definitely handy for the airport, that’s not the only place I go - the shopping centres at the Gyle and Hermiston Gait are best reached by tram. And the trams are, at the appropriate time of day, horribly stowed out with folk who work at Edinburgh Park and the big bank HQ. Looking forward to the extension to the Dreadnought pub, though not the disruption that will stop both trams and buses at York Place next year.
@@FeoragForsyth I'm local as well. It's a good 4-minute hike to York Place from our flat, so I'm a bit biased. And yes, it gets places, for me, and for the commuters into the city from out by Gyle. And the extension down Leith Walk will make a big difference, some good, some not. It is very pleasant to travel on, and has a short but involved political history.
NYC has many island stations, many narrow. One of them is Wall St on the IRT 123 line. Added bonus is when it rains the tile they chose is slippery, run down the stairs and slip right into an open train...
Thanks for this one, back in the 70's (or was it during the blitz? )l travelled almost every day from Clapham Common. Down those stairs and walked all the way to the end of the island platform. There's more stairs beyond that little gate, always wondered where they went, Mordor?
They went up to the now-bricked-in signal box over the end of the platform, beyond which was a scissor type crossover. This was removed back in the 80s (I think) but originated from the years (1900-1926) when Clapham Common was the end of the line. When I was a Clapham youngster in the 60s, standing at the end of the platform when a train came in (and if you were lucky, with one going out as well!) was really exciting - like being in the middle of Armageddon with incredibly loud, thunderclap noise from the points accompanied by flashes of arc lightning as the trains passed over. Ah, childhood!😄
Oooh this takes me back to sojourns up to Angel from south London on Saturday nights (to go to the Kings Head Theatre Club) in the 70's. Strange how we didn't seem to notice the narrow platforms so much when we were returning after a few pints (!).
Nice explanation, I did these stations about 6 months ago and they were pretty scary. Yesterday I actually completed the Northern line, doing the High Barnet and Mill Hill East branches and bringing the total number of tube stations I've visited to over 150.. Couldn't spot the old names on the platforms at Warren Street though, which was odd. And I also finished off the eastern leg of the Jubilee and District lines too, although I'm rather annoyed that the Labyrinths at Bow Road and Stepney Green have been stolen (Bow Road's is completely missing, Stepney Green's has 3 of the 4 sides of the mounting frame still present but no actual labyrinth in place). Hopefully gonna finish the rest of the District plus maybe the H&C tomorrow.
In Boston, a large number of our train stations feature one (or more!) "island platforms". Not once have I been afraid of being pushed into the tracks. Why? Looking at the videos, it is instantly clear: our island platforms are just... bigger. Those platforms are tiny!! I'd be afraid of being pushed onto the tracks even if it WASN'T an island platform...
The Great Eastern from Liverpool Street was obligated to charge workmens fares because of the amount of inner london housing it displaced in building the station.
I was born in Stockwell and lived to the north of Clapham Junction as a toddler but moved to Hertfordshire aged three in 1953. As a callow youth I would explore London alone and once alighted the tube at Angel on the former narrow island platform, I was very disturbed, perhaps sensing those passengers who met an untimely end there. Or was I remembering my earlier childhood visits to my grandparents flat who lived very close to Clapham North?
You'll have to make a missive entitled "The wrath of Kahn" detailing the demise of the Bakerloo Line and Sadik's efforts to save it from the ghost of Dr Beeching! Your videos are always a pleasure to watch. Thanks for uploading.
I remember the old layout at Angel as I passed through it from KingsX on the way to Old St every day. I didn't even give it a thought on how it might be dangerous.
It was fine except during rush hour. Standing on a jam-packed platform there was often a noticeable shift towards the opposite edge as a train disgorged its passengers. It also used to have lifts rather than escalators so passengers arrived in pulses which sent shock waves of shifting commuters down the platform. I tried to avoid the edge as it could feel rather precarious.
Hi Jago, I liked that video. Especially the shots of the old Angel Station building. My dear old late dad and the company he worked for built the grey zinc roof just above the station! He worked for a company called BIZ who are owned by the Smith family. The same family that advertise themselves and restored the nearby ornate clock opposite the station in City Road. My dad worked on most of roofs of the Universities and cathedrals in the UK as well as famous buildings like The MOD bulding in Whitehall, The Royal Festival Hall on the south bank and one of his last jobs he worked on was the stainless steel domes on the Thames Barrier. He left his mark on the capital!
@@JagoHazzard My dad said it was amazing to see all these diggers in the dammed off river bed excavations working on the foundations to the piers. Worrying to realise that only some interlocking steel panels driven deep into the river bed kept the Thames from engulfing you whilst working 40feet or so below the high water mark way above you!
To answer a comment below re the mysterious ladder stairs at the end of the platform at Clapham Common - they ascend not to Mordor, but to the now-bricked-up signal box suspended above the far-end, just beyond which were scissor-style crossover points. These were (sadly!) removed back in the early 80s I think, but had originated from the years (1900-1926) when Clapham Common was the end of the line. When I was a Clapham youngster in the 1960s, the signal box still had its dirty windows which overlooked the platform, and standing underneath it when a train came in (and if you were lucky, with one going out as well!) was really exciting - like being in the middle of Armageddon due to incredibly loud, thunderclap noise and racket from the points, accompanied by blinding flashes of arc-lightning as the trains passed over them!! Ah, childhood!😄
Not experienced the *tube* at Clapham, but using the Glasgow subway when staying there for a week was a bit scary - and that was usually outside of rush hour as well!
I'm VERY surprised that there's only two stations like this, this kind of platform layout is what I think of when I think of "Underground Metro/Subway/Tube station".
Great video. I thought there still is disused tunnels at one side of both Clap North & Common stations that were built up to the outbreak of ww2 which of course were going to be fast/express lines? ..although i guess it would still cost plenty to make alterations including a updated track.
I remember as a child feeling a rush of fear (and exhilaration) on descending the stairs to that narrow platform at Clapham Common. I love those stations. I love the tube.
If you look at diagrams of the deep level tube shelters at the Clapham stations, they run close to the running tunnels. It might be that widening would be a problem, not due to the shelter tunnels themselves, but what lies on the other side of the running tunnels that would be too expensive to get round. (If you haven't done a video on them, one would be welcome I'm sure. Including the abortive schemes at Oval and St. Pauls of course :-) )
I don't think widening the existing tunnel is possible because of the amount of disruption. During the works it would be impossible to run a train service (even a non stop service) so the southern end of the Northern line would need to be closed. A short term solution might be to put rising barriers down both sides of these platforms. During the morning peak trains would run non stop Southbound with the barriers in place to protect passengers waiting on the island platform for the northbound services. Between the peaks both barriers would be lowered and both platforms in use, while in the evening peak the Southbound platforms would be in use with non stop northbound trains protected by barriers. Passengers travelling against the dominant flow would have to travel in the wrong direction and change direction at Clapham South or Stockwell.
One measure to avoid people falling onto the rail at any station would be to have a glass window installed with doors at the locations the train's doors end up when it comes to a halt. Reduces noise, reduces risk, and helps make it easier to regulate temperature inside the station, a win all around in my book.
Hi Jago, My brother and I used the Northern Line station at Clapham South 5-6 days a week for three years back in the late 1960's! We used to get off at other stops prior to ours if we were going to our favorite Pub on occasions. We never had any problems with these 'single island 'stations.. Either we were young and "bullet-proof" or more likely back then over half a century ago, the tube was not as crowded.. We enjoyed seeing our old stations, on your video as we both live on the other side of the world now, in our native country- New Zealand!
I remember the old island platform at Angel with a certain amount of dread ! 😱 Not that I used that station very often but on a few occasions in the past I vividly remember almost having to fight my way through the outgoing crowds as I tried to enter the station.
I am so terrified of those platforms - I used to commute to Clapham Common and would make sure I was at the right end of the train to not have to walk up the platform. On the way home I'd wait at the top of the stairs and nip down once the train arrived. It could have been worse I suppose - at least I'm not in Edwardian skirts....
I used to get the tube from Moorgate up the the Angel and one day the train went straight through Angel without stopping so I got of at Kings Cross ran through the connecting tunnel to the return line only to have the train, once again, not stop at Angel so changed at Old Street to go back to the Angel but it didn't stop again. Eventually there was an announcement that only one lift was working at the Angel and as a result there were too many people on the centre platform, so they just didn't stop the train there.
I was at Clapham North just last weekend, and was a bit shocked and disconcerted that these little narrow ribbons still existed. I remember the one at Angel and had no knock to my nostalgia when I saw the recent refurbishment. Frankly, these 'islands' are tiny and - even if they were less frequented when built - they're a badly-designed nightmare. Thanks for the vid, though.
It must be over 50 years since I first noticed these island platforms on the Northern Line, and I did wonder at the time whether anybody in London Tranport was concerned about their rather narrow width and their safety at peak times. After some years, clearly they were recognised and some stations had a second tunnel built for another platform and the existing tunnel became a single platform. Nice to see somebody else knew about them (Jago H !!). I remember years ago standing at the top of the single and narrow set of stairs to descend to the platforms and thinking "you've got to be joking !!
Due to the ridiculous platform size I never enjoyed catching the tube from Clapham North (circa 1991) even though I was going in the opposite direction to most of the commuters. This was a major factor in my deciding to commute by car instead! Thanks for the memories!
At least one knew in which direction the next arrival was heading by the temperature of the draught, a Northbound train at Clapham Common was pushing the cold air from Morden in front of it.
If you are at South Wimbledon the air is freezing on one side, so a tip, wait on the southbound platform for a warm up then run to the north as the next train is announced. Probably applies all the way to Tooting
Having spent a lot of time in Paris I have noted that some of the Metro platforms have island platforms and if my memory serves me correctly there is a station near PSGs ground which has this feature (I bet that is fun after games against Marseille) . These have always made me nervous and I can remember as a child being terrified of them. As with heights I try to combat this by using them and was in Clapham about three summer's ago. But they still made me nervous as I felt that I was going to slide toward the track . This said I was a brave boy and let s couple of trains pass in either direction to prove that I was just silly. The thing is that I love the look and the geography of island platforms . Closing a few days after my Clapham experience I climbed Dane John in Canterbury and had exactly the same reaction. I think it was the fall of about three feet to the path below that unnerved me . We are strange creatures ......
NYC has some stations like this. 72nd/Broadway on the west side IRT has 2 very narrow platforms between the 4 tracks. (original station dating to 1904). Not quite this narrow, but a bit scary at rush hour.
Forgive my ignorance of London geography, but are these two stations consecutive stops? If so, are they close enough to each other to make one northbound-only and the other south (or whatever direction the line runs) without unduly inconveniencing riders?
As a timid little boy visiting from the country in the 1950s, Clapham North was my first introduction to London Underground. I was probably too fascinated by the whole experience to be scared, but I do remember alighting from a busy train just as an equally busy one in the opposite direction disgorged its crowds. My legs turned to jelly at that point especially when I had to walk along the platform after the trains had pulled out. When it's quiet it's equally scary because you might find yourself alone with a homicidal maniac.
The way leave of most of Londons tube causes problems, I went to a shop in Clapham high road and went down stairs and every train could be heard and felt rumbling by. The platforms at Common and North are just legal within the railway part of H&S legislation, however they are not if you stand by a sign or a INFO point. 6 Feet was the bare minimum.
Given how close the two stations are (10 minutes' walk), I wonder about closing one northbound and the other southbound, and bricking up the closed platform edges.
Is this falling from the platform idea a real concern in London ? Never heard this in any other country.Widening the outer curve should be no problem these days, it just costs money.
Clapham in South London is quite a unique area especially Clapham North, Clapham Common, Clapham South, Clapham Junction and Clapham High Street stations that do serve Clapham and Battersea. And with the Northern Line extended to Battersea Power Station. There is hope for Transport for London to extend it one stop to Clapham Junction. Where it will connect with London Overground and National Rail services.
I can recall using Angel Station in the 1980's and it use to frighten the life out of me at rush hour times, I seem to recall that the station staff would stop passengers descending to the platform to prevent severe overcrowding.
Since these trains aren’t automated, what’s stopping the company from installing safety rails on either side, with gates that slide open when the train hits a certain point in the track? Also seems like the big signs and other obstacles on the platform force people to get closer than needed to the tracks.
Thank You Jago!!! I now know of Of two persons called Jago. Yourself and an eight week old boy of a friend of mine. I always thought the name had irs origins in Scandinavia. But have been recently told its of West Country origin.
Anyone noticed the latest at station tube map (or is it London Connections ). The blob connector at Kennington has been elongated from the Morden Branch and the Battersea Power Station Branch, it is easy to miss that the West End Branch exists at all. I was helping a couple at Colliers Wood - where do you want to go - " Tottenham Court" ( actually I was thinking WHERE IS Tottenham Court ?), so showed the Kennington Connection - they thought it was a long walk at Kennington and did the trains for Tottenham Court Road actually stop at the same station ! - I explained it was straightforward across one platform - I then confirmed that the Theatre they wanted was actually in the Vicinity- I think it was the Shaftsbury ( which is possibly easier for those that know the walking route to access from Leicester Square Station side exit). I am not certain if the pedestrian exits and subways have changed at Tottenham Court Road with Crossrail activity and practical completion
The Glasgow subway has equally scary platforms, for example at Cowcaddens which I sometimes have the misfortune to use. You always have to hope that two trains don't arrive simultaneously.
Clapham North, a pain to change out of at morning peak to get to Clapham High Street - which ever since promoted as Overground is much greater used than it was. OSI from Stockwell and Clapham Common would help.
Great video. Plenty of Metro stations in places like Russia South Korean Japan have barrier set up to stop people from falling onto the tracks some strange that they wouldn't have used them in the London underground.
Here at Portugal in Espinho we have a island platform at the train station and tbh it's way easier and safer in any kind of way, but this, it's short, not large just like in Espinho, it should be bigger.
It's shocking how narrow that platform is. When you look at island platforms in Toronto, they're much wider but usually they always have walls in the way down the centre. In most cases, these walls are hiding storage rooms etc but this takes up space on the platform that could've been left open which means that the wider width is mooted. At some stations like Union, it became a serious issue because Union, thanks to the growth and development around the area quickly suffered from extreme capacity issues. The station was handing WAY more people in modern times than it had been designed and built for in 1954 and this issue is accentuated tenfold whenever there's a major event downtown which is common due to all the sports games/races we hold here among other things. In the 2010s, as the main Union station was undergoing renovations, the ttc undertook their own in the subway station. This involved digging out and building an all new platform that is extra wide to allow for potential future growth and even was directly connected to the streetcar loop. The old island platform was made to be used exclusively for the University side of line 1 with the ttc using the full width of the platform and adding a wall to the south edge whilst the new platform is for the yonge side. This gives Union station a unique layout among ttc stations with two side platforms but both of them facing north. Bloor-Yonge station is to receive similar treatment. Line 1's platforms were already widened in 1992 when it was clear back then they're were too narrow for the unexpected capacity and will be made wider still. Line 2's platforms however are in the island configuration. It's not known why but it might have to do with how Lines 1 and 2 originally operated when the latter opened in 1966. the ttc is planning to dig out and build a new wide side platform and use the old island for one direction, same as Union.
Tokyo Yamanote line installs barriers on narrow platforms for that reason. These go where the 'MIND THE GAP' sign would be and open when the train doors line up behind the barrier.
I remember Angel island platform. As a student we’d commute over from South London for Saturday night drinking. Many island platforms on NYC subway/underground
One must remember these platforms were built in the age of Middle-earth, when Hobbits and Dwarves roamed and thus rush hour peaks were pretty manageable.
Now we now were the remaining 1/4 of the platform went constructing platform 9 3/4.
"Where's your ticket?"
"I 'aven't got one!"
"YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!"
"I always like going south somehow, it feels like going down hill" being someone from near Epping forest
@@cargy930 "Speak friend and enter"
And of course Dwarves were at home underground and Elves had no fear of losing their footing. However, the recent explosion in the Troll population causes some concern.
The biggest problem at Clapham is that there's always some bloke with a camera getting in everyone's way 🙂
Sounds like a Hazzard.
@@tihspidtherekciltilc5469 Well it's easy, ja-go to the right,or ja-go to the left to avoid the hazzard.
It is my great pleasure to present to you, in the presence of the travelling public, that all of you, have collectively won The Internet! Please pose for your pictures as I present all of you with the Keys to the Underground!
@@buddyclem7328 Why thank you kindly. Is this my good side 🥩, or this 🍰 side.
Guilty.....
Ahahaha, loved the calling out of MyLondon for ripping off your work. My news aggregator keeps suggesting their articles and I keep thinking "Hmmmm, where have I seen this before..." :D
I was a guard in the Northern line in 1997. Between Clapham South and Common I lost the pilot light (72ts). Gave it a couple of seconds then stopped the train. Still no pilot light! Checked the rear cab and the Motorman checked the front to see is if anything had tripped out. All was in place. We checked every door all closed. Put the guards key in the front car still no pilot light. Went back to the rear guard’s position keyed on still no pilot light. Called the Motorman to proceed at caution to Clapham Common. When we arrived there, I was not the most popular person on the Northern line because I stuck to the rule book.
If you had to detrain at either Clapham Common or North you had to stop a train on the opposite platform and show the Guard a red light then instruct him not to move the train until we had detrained, departed and another train arrived to take the passengers then he could move. This went down well at 07:45 on a Monday morning. We ran the train empty to Golders depot off the main from Hampstead. I took my key out and a fitter got on put his key in and got a pilot light. Typical 72 stock.
I have one question. What is a pilot light?
@@Planet__3 its the term we use for the door closed visual on the Underground. If its lit your doors are closed if not you have a door open or fault on the door interlock circuit.
@@piccadillyline9765 Interesting. Thank you for sharing your story. I love hearing about people's experiences in the past &/or in different countries.
More stories, please
It's little anecdotes like this that really make the internet. JH provides tremendous information, but it's these stories that turn them 'real.' Surely we can all relate to this story: "Look, it might be fine now, but it wasn't an hour ago." Trust me, working with buses this happens all the time. In fact, I have one waiting for me on nightshift tonight that I know I'll get in and find nothing wrong, yet two of our best drivers have had it drop out of drive.
Euston actually retained its narrow, dangerously overcrowded island platform until as late as 1965. Like Angel, it then got a very wide southbound platform (stretching over the site of the former northbound track) and a brand new northbound platform. In that case, this work was done in order to give cross-platform interchange with the new Victoria Line then under construction. At the very south end the southbound platform still narrows, as there is a tiny bit of the former northbound line still there, safely hidden behind a wall.
Interesting, but the _"south end the southbound platform"_ (if _south end_ is referring to the southbound end) is actually at the north-east end of the southbound platform. The line is aligned south-west to north-east at Euston, assuming we are talking about the City branch.
Euston, city branch only I think.
What is real fun is the fact that the Northern line is Southbound to Kings Cross and the Victoria Line is Northbound, forget the circle, Met and Hammersmith and City lines from Euston Square as they go Eastbound to Kings Cross.
@@brianfretwell3886 sort of , you interchange northbound to northbound , but the train you change to runs in the opposite direction to the one you just got off, which is very confusing - I always check the map.
I used to have to go to Clapham South on a weekly basis for work. I also used Clapham Common. On the first occasion I went to Clapham Common, I alighted from the train not knowing that it was an island platform because I’m totally blind. I always take a big step off the train, to avoid any gap that there may be between the train and the edge of the platform. My momentum caused me to take another step which was unfortunately off the other side of the island platform. These ones really are very narrow! I get the impression that the one at Clapham South might be slightly wider but I wouldn’t want to be quoted on it. I also used to use the angel station regularly as well. This would be in the late 80s and early 90s. I was always surprised there was never an accident there because the RNIB had offices in Goswell Road near the angel station. Many blind people would descend to the platforms at the end of the workday, and I’m sure someone must’ve fallen off at some stage. That station was always packed during rush-hour. I remember the Clapham Common incident as it was the most scary of my life I think. As I stepped off the other platform, I could hear a train in the distance! If my pants weren’t brown beforehand they certainly were afterwards. Anyway I managed to climb up safely obviously, or I wouldn’t be writing this. I love your videos, and make a point of listening to them whenever they post. Thanks very much
WOW. Glad you're ok
Wow! That’s quite the story? Was no one around to help you?
@@ReddSpark My guess is either (A) no or (B) bystander effect.
@@bobwalsh3751 Depends also which end of the platform you fall off, if it is at the departing end then the train is slow enough to stop. Anyway how does someone totally blind type a comment ?
ive always found the scariest part of the narrow platforms to be when a tube approaches from both directions simultaneously! it gets incredibly windy and ive never felt in more of a rush to get on a tube
All platforms on the Moscow metro are island platforms, only they are about 10 metres wide so easily able to deal with the huge crowds at rush hour. It's busier than London too. Actually, I think it's a better design for ease of use. If you want to go back in the opposite direction, you just cross the platform, rather than going up and down stairs and through additional corridors. Friends meeting up from different parts of the city often arrange to meet on the platform at a designated station, which means they don't have to wait outside in the cold, or stand in the ticket hall to wait.
Moscow metro is so gooooood.
When I use the Tube (which is not often these days) I always try to stand against a wall so that no-one can push or jog me from behind. Just a precaution against nutters. At the Claphams this wouldn't be possible, but the station 'furniture' down the middle of the platforms might serve as a substitute.
My Dad cycled from Leytonstone to Ilford every workday in the fifties. My elder brother cycled from Leytonstone to Buckhurst Hill for work until he could afford a motor bike. It wouldn't have crossed their mind to spend money on public transport.
Those island platforms really worried me as a little kid..
Ta Jago.
Did they suffer from black lung from all the coal soot?
I hope your big bruv didn't demand some other bloke hand over his clothes, his boots and his motorcycle.
Apparently one of my neighbours (when I was really young) would cycle from West London to Northampton on Sunday afternoon/evening, live there in digs till Friday and cycle home to his wife and family after lunchtime. Worked in a shoe factory. 1960s, fewer cars at the time.
No idea why they didn't move up there (they were in a council house in London so that may explain it, or extended family).
@@paulqueripel3493 Maybe he liked it. Cycling used to be quite nice before road rage and high speed dense traffic.
@@TerryClarkAccordioncrazy True. I saw a short documentary on Swindon shot in the early 60s recently. There were more pushbikes than cars on the road back then.
Watch "Heart of the Angel", a documentary from 1989 available here on TH-cam and on BBC iPlayer. A facinating look at how staff coped (or didn't cope) with the old Angel Station. It's pretty depressing, Angel was in desperate need of a refurb.
Love this documentary. Especially amusing is the lift operator who thinks the Earth is flat and that the World is coming to an end soon. The first we know is not true, the second.......well who knows?
Loved that documentary!
A Tale far from the Tube: The Glasgow Subway (which runs in tube tunnels) has narrow island platforms at most of its stations and I believe they have a similar overcrowding problem, some of the stations have had additional side platforms added to help with this problem with a glass barrier down one side of the island platform for safety. This could be a quicker solution for the Clapham North and Common Stations, just a thought....
A similar step was taken at a Toronto Subway station - Union, which serves the primary train station, had an island platform with overcrowding issues until a new side platform was added for one travel direction.
Originally all the Glasgow Subway had narrow island platforms until it closed (in 1977?) to be rebuilt. Some of the busier stations were given side platforms with the island platform removed, and one or maybe two were given only one side platform while keeping the island platform so ended up with effectively three, hence the glass barrier so you didn't try to enter/exit on the wrong side of the train. I think they are Ibrox and Buchanan Street. Merkland Street subway station was completely relocated and built anew below the new Partick railway station which itself replaced Partick Hill railway station, the new affair being simply called Partick.
@@neilbain8736 Hillhead also has separate platforms as you described.
@@neilbain8736 island platforms were a real safety risk on the Glasgow Subway on Match days with crowd control frequently needed at Ibrox station hence the addition of a new platform.
Back when all Glasgow underground stations were islands, a school friend told me that with the line being circular the trains never changed directions so they ran stock that only had doors on one side.
I have not been able verify that , and wonder if anyone can confirm or rebut that?
Jago, your mention of 2d tickets took me back to my youthful tube journeys. The tickets were 1 inch wide and 2,5 inches long, canary yellow on the front and rust brown on the back, very stiff with a magnetic strip inside containing the face value code. Each station had a chart in the ticket hall with prices for ALL LT Underground Stations. You looked up your destination (alphabetically), read off the price and put the coins in a ticket machine, which spat out the ticket. If you bought a 10 p ticket and rode the whole length of the line, the barriers at the other end wouldn't open, because they could read your start of journey off the magnetic strip. Before you could say "Jack Robinson", the LT inspector would be standing next to you: "Now then young man, can we be of assistance?" (people were polite then).
In the mid-1960s, during my second and last visit to London, I remember using those machines. I also remember handing the used ticket to a gent when exiting the station. Unless I am confusing London Transport with the Paris Metro.
@@delurkor That sounds right. There were ticket collectors in those days and no automatic gates. I used to ask them if I could keep the ticket as a souvenir and they would generally let me do so and put an X through it. I built up a fair collection. My 2 most recent ones are for Nine Elms and Battersea Power Station Station (xxx) ... Had to be careful not to use them when exiting and getting them swallowed (I had a travelcard).
@@TheClockwise770 the green versions were also used by BR, that was back in the day when Ealing Broadway was two separate stations (one for Western Region and one for Underground) and a tank engine push and pull service from there to the bay at Greenford.
A return ticket had a perforation down the middle and you gave up half of the ticket on each part of the journey. This left you with a piece of cardboard about the size of a postage stamp to keep safe during your day out.
@@trueriver1950 oh yes I recall that now, I often lost the return portion and had to try and convince the ticket collector at Finchley Central that I'd genuinely lost it.
He wa a great guy and when he saw me would just let me strait through. Wouldn't happen these times
Sounds like how the paper tickets work in Japan. Though today most people use smart cards now.
Island platforms are far more common in North America. In Seattle and Portland, for example, most platforms are islands. This may be a budgetary issue. Though none of them are as narrow as the Clapham islands! Those do look terrifying, and I'm used to the stations in the Pacific Northwest!
that part of the tube needs a second platform somwhere.
Not so much in Canada. The TTC only has a few, and they are far wider than the Clapham island platform. Although at Rush Hour the St. George's platform is extremely crowded.
This purely boils down to era and type of rail construction. Island platforms are a lot more common on modern railways owing to station box construction, in many North American cities rail infrastructure has been built a lot more frequently in comparison with European/UK railways which originate from the late 19th early 20th centuries.
In Seattle the island platforms on the Sounder line are generally pretty wide, so I've never been worried about those. Also, the busiest part of the line in Downtown Seattle has standard platforms, but it had busses running through the tunnels for many years before the Sounder lines were built.
Remember when Angel had a single platform, was always worried about being too near the edge.
Yeah I’m old enough to remember that too!
Me too!
I always did think it a bit dodgy myself, even though in those days (early 1980s) my shifts meant I travelled during Off-Peak times.
I can recall being greatly scared by the island platform at Angel when a child.
I can recall being somewhat scared by the island platform at Angel when an adult.
I had never been to Angel when it was an island platform but looking at the Clapham North platform I would be scared as an adult too.
When approaching Stockwell Station from the North you will notice a stretch of track where you can see the track which goes in the opposite direction. This is the site of the original island platform. The platforms are now further south with the doors opening on the left instead of the original right.This came in very handy when the Victoria line was built for cross platform interchange with northbound to northbound and southbound to southbound as the vast majority of passengers change trains in these directions of travel.
Oh yes I’ve seen that.
@@sarahhardcastle2433 And I'm still awake watching Q.I. on Dave gathering some more trivia that I can pass off as original wisdom !!
You could see the same sort of thing when approaching Finsbury Park from the south, as the Victoria and Piccadilly lines converged. But those were going in the same direction.
Spoken like Geoff Marshall.
@@bobwalsh3751 I'll take that as a compliment but I'm nowhere near as good as Geoff !
For those advocating platform edge doors, the snag is that the screens take up a significant amount of width so would make the remaining platform even narrower. Plus they don't work well on platforms with any curvature and you have to find a way to mount the mechanism. Much easier to design in from new (Jubilee line extension) than to retrofit.
And the rolling stock has to be OK with them. That's why there aren't any on the NLE, according to Geoff Marshall.
@@WMD4929 thats less of an issue, with the Jubilee running 1996 coaches, which had PED tech retrofitted themselves, the same procedure could be applied to the 1995 Northern line rolling stock aswell...
Just having railings would be an improvement.
@@PistonAvatarGuy yeah when a train is coming into the station no one should be standing within the width of a railing anyway so space wouldn't change. Much like with the bullet train stations in japan
@@yukisuter Exactly.
I'm grateful for (safely wide) island platforms for two selfish but practical reasons:
(1) It becomes impossible to accidentally go up or down to the wrong platform (for the wrong direction train) and thus waste time correcting the mistake.
(2) If i did accidentally go in the wrong direction on the train, or, i accidentally went past my intended target station, then it's a quick and easy matter to switch to the other direction train to come back.
But this type of transfer is rather the exception and station design should follow the requirments of majority of passengers. So in transfer stations, islands are OK, but with trains from the other line on the other side, so that majority of transferers have shortest ways.
I remember having to use Angel when I had a temp job in 1992 with a charity that raised funds for Guys Children’s Hospital. I had to report there a few times a week. Freaked the hell out of me the first time I got off there as I’d only seen such proportionally thin platforms on model railways! 🤔 It was particularly disconcerting when alighting from the northbound platform, the train I’d got off began to depart and then a southbound service suddenly belted through the portal. The noise, rapidly moving trains on either side seemingly within touching distance, plus the swirling breezes throwing themselves around made it quite the experience 😳
Then again, within a few weeks I had got used to it, albeit I’d always ensure I checked in at a quieter time as rush hour was awful. Funnily enough, I went to a Clapham Common event with my then girlfriend about ten years ago. I’d forgotten that it still had its island platform and poor Kelly was a bit freaked out, not least because the platform was pretty rammed. Reminded me of my first time at Angel all over again 😅
Cheers Jago, great video again 😎👍🍀🍻
I remember the angel platforms before they rebuilt the station. I absolutely hated them as a kid... made me really uneasy. I'd completely forgotten about it until the start of this vid
Honestly those island platforms look narrow even if they had a wall on one side, let alone being between two tracks!
I do in general prefer Island platforms to side ones on underground lines because it means you don’t need to worry about which direction you’re going to navigate the station entrances, nor do you dash above/below the tracks because the entrance is closer to one side than the other and watch as your train pulls away before you get there.
Handy too, if you miss your stop and need to retrace your route, or change your mind at the lat minute and decide to go the other way.😁
Next time I'm at Clapham Fire Station i'll ask how many "one unders" (people on tracks/under trains) the station attends at Clapham North and Clapham common. I'm sure it happens from time to time because it happens basically daily somewhere on the network.
The need to differentiate between accidental and deliberate (suicide)
"one unders" is needed here.
There are indeed sadly quite a few suicides that involve people who deliberately jump under trains but careful enquiries would be needed to be carried out ,including examination of CCTV footage, to establish wether a person under a train at a station with an island platform was the result of an accident or an intentional act.
@@simonwinter8839 One Unders describe accidents and deliberate incidents
@@LondonEmergency999
I didn't say there was a difference.
What I said was there was a need in the case of island platforms to establish what was due to accidents and suicides to establish how dangerous island platforms are.
Also a procedure is in place to restrict access to ANY station that is becoming overcrowded to reduce incidents of people falling under trains.
@@LondonEmergency999
Just a note on the use of the English language. The bracketed word suicide in my comment would need a comma after it in order for a difference to be established between accident and suicide. Since no comma was used one under,which appears in quotation marks, pertains to both accident and suicide incidents.
Where I used the word differentiate that was used to establish the need to make a difference not to suggest there was one.I hope that's clear.
@@simonwinter8839 I have no idea what you just said. I don't think you do either.
Great video Jago. Used to use angel when it was an island platform.. disconcerting at peak times! I had wondered about MyLondon's content as it seems to mirror yours !
Wasn't sure whether this was a slight dig for plagiarism sake or a plug for a second job.
Excellent video. I grew up beside Clapham Common and the station of that name was my nearest Tube. Whilst I was aware of the history of the Northern Line I did not know why CC and CN Island platforms were quite so narrow. Certainly I always took extra care to stand well back from the platform edges as I had to commute during peak hours. The only accident I witnessed was a woman falling down the rather narrow access stairs although she did not appear to be seriously hurt.
The one platform between two tracks arrangement is often actually a good thing, facilitating cross-platform transfers, which are greatly beneficial to passengers. That said, this is only useful if the tracks on each side are different lines, rather than just the same line going the other way, and the platforms Do need to be wide enough to safely accommodate the amount of passengers moving through (which the one(s) the video is about certainly don't seem to be), while curved platforms make additional safety features difficult to implement.
A good example of this is Mile End (Central and District/H&C)
You said that King William St had an island platform and that is sort of true. However, when it was originally opened, it actually had the exact opposite. It had one track (remember, it was a terminus) and two platforms, one for boarding and one for exiting. Five years later it was rebuilt with an island platform to increase capacity since it could have two trains waiting in the station at once, but the alignment and design of the station were totally wrong and it was abandoned just five more years later with a totally new alignment for the line to London Bridge, Bank, and Moorgate.
I used to live in Morden so would regularly go through the Clapham stations when going to London as a kid. Never had a cause to get off in Clapham but the idea of being on that middle platform used to terrify me. I used to have a regularly recurring nightmare that I still have as an adult of being on there as two trains came in simultaneously with the wind either blowing or sucking me onto the tracks 🤣
Those islands look so scary, dangerous and unnecessarily busy creating. I think they should try to upgrade them soonish.
And the Bakerloo trains
And the list goes on
I know it isn’t cheap but still
Will the Bakerloo get Picc leftovers or is it one order of new for Bakerloo and the Picc ?
There's a modern-day dangerously-narrow platform at Salford Central station.
@@None-zc5vg The side through platforms at Piccadilly are not much better for the number of passengers
@@highpath4776 Pity the plan for platforms 15 & 16 at Man Picc. fell by the wayside, as they would have been used for westbound trains, allowing 13 & 14 to be used for eastbound trains, which in turn would have reduced conflicting passenger flows.
We got the Ordsall Chord instead, which increases the number of trains using 13 & 14 despite them having long been acknowledged to be dangerously overcrowded at times. :(
@@atraindriver Quite why plans for "improving" Britains railways are blindly pushed through when they wont give the desired stated results baffles me
4:00 Euston Station Tube? Isn’t that the thing that connects the ear to the throat? No - hang on - that’s the Eustachian tube!
This takes me back - I used to work just opposite Clapham North, and used it all the time. Also, I'd always wondered about the extra wide platform at Angel.
So - two for the price of one today. Nostalgia hit and the answer to my question re Angel.
Result!
Thanks Jago - another brilliant video about the curiosities of the tube. I've always been glad that I have never had to board/change trains at either Clapham Common or Clapham North.
I think TFL should build platforms on either side of the tracks 🚇. It would involve a lot of expensive tunnelling though, not to mention the underpinning of the street-level structures.
A Clapham-esque experience can be had here in Canada at Bloor-Yonge station on the line 2 platforms. Eek!
In the 70s I remember being terrified of Angel. Now I find most tube stations terrifying - I have to keep my back to the wall or hold onto a seat. I can’t drive over big bridges either. It’s the fear I might suddenly want to jump off. I don’t think this unusual. I’m glad to be reminded to avoid Clapham,
I remember a schoolteacher who couldn't drive over bridges...
Jago. Back in 1966 I was an apprentice from South of the water and on several occasions had to use The Angel towards rush hour with its single platform - crowded it certainly was -sweltering hot it’s a wonder no one was pushed on to the track -Another cool vlog - keep em coming sir !! 👍👏👏🇬🇧
Class shade at the end haha
I witnessed a 'one under' at Angel in the 80s, when it was still a narrow island platform. Nasty. At the time I was living at Clapham North and avoided using that station completely for several months, preferring to get the bus to/from Stockwell to use the tube from/to there for my daily commute into Leicester Square.
Totally unrelated to anything, but I recently saw one of your comments being responded to by Steve Shives in one of his not actually trek actually comment response videos, and it drew a very pleasing circle around my TH-cam universe.
Also, great video once again, thanks!
I lived in London from 1966 until 1974. I lived at Tooting Broadway and was a regular user of the 'Misery Line' as it was commonly known. Depending on what I was doing and where I was going, the Claphams were very familiar to me. I never liked them because of the island platforms, which were always very dark, compared to other stations on the Northern Line. It was the hot, fetid smell I hated the most.
Can't believe you uploaded this the same day I've ever stood on the Clapham common platform. I go past it most days and have always wanted to experience the unease of the trains rushing in and out on either side.
Platform barrier doors make so much sense. We have them for elevators, why not rail platforms?
If railways had been invented today, they'd all have PSDs. Which many, if not most, brand new lines are getting built with!
As I understand it Door barriers can’t be fitted to old curved platforms because of the platform train gap, that results from curved platforms. If door barriers were fitted not only could people still fall into the gap, but the gap continues between the barrier and the train, causing yet more space to trap someone or part of someone.
the screen doors have to line up with the train's doors, which is both less flexible and also isn't necessary possible with different rolling stocks
The trains need very accurate stopping. It also interferes with trainspotting.
The Jubilee line has them, but that line was built to accommodate them from the start.
Hurrah! There's been all the end-of-central, where I was a wee small; and the Battersea bits - I used to live up the junction.
Now I'm in Edinburgh, we have the tram, which is very nice and quite useful; buses which are...buses, and the railways which are in places utterly stunning. Well, I shall be back in TfL land in a couple of weeks, and I can see many of these old haunts agin.
The Edinburgh Trams are great but I wonder how useful they are to the locals. It's primary purpose appears to be getting to and from the airport. I've used it for that purpose and very few people seem to get on or off at intermediate stops.
@@caw25sha I’m local, staying close to the York Place terminus. While they’re definitely handy for the airport, that’s not the only place I go - the shopping centres at the Gyle and Hermiston Gait are best reached by tram. And the trams are, at the appropriate time of day, horribly stowed out with folk who work at Edinburgh Park and the big bank HQ. Looking forward to the extension to the Dreadnought pub, though not the disruption that will stop both trams and buses at York Place next year.
@@FeoragForsyth I'm local as well. It's a good 4-minute hike to York Place from our flat, so I'm a bit biased. And yes, it gets places, for me, and for the commuters into the city from out by Gyle. And the extension down Leith Walk will make a big difference, some good, some not. It is very pleasant to travel on, and has a short but involved political history.
NYC has many island stations, many narrow. One of them is Wall St on the IRT 123 line. Added bonus is when it rains the tile they chose is slippery, run down the stairs and slip right into an open train...
Fulton St also
Noticed the kids copying your videos. Plenty of students but only one master.
Thanks for this one, back in the 70's (or was it during the blitz? )l travelled almost every day from Clapham Common. Down those stairs and walked all the way to the end of the island platform. There's more stairs beyond that little gate, always wondered where they went, Mordor?
They went up to the now-bricked-in signal box over the end of the platform, beyond which was a scissor type crossover. This was removed back in the 80s (I think) but originated from the years (1900-1926) when Clapham Common was the end of the line. When I was a Clapham youngster in the 60s, standing at the end of the platform when a train came in (and if you were lucky, with one going out as well!) was really exciting - like being in the middle of Armageddon with incredibly loud, thunderclap noise from the points accompanied by flashes of arc lightning as the trains passed over. Ah, childhood!😄
Oooh this takes me back to sojourns up to Angel from south London on Saturday nights (to go to the Kings Head Theatre Club) in the 70's. Strange how we didn't seem to notice the narrow platforms so much when we were returning after a few pints (!).
Nice explanation, I did these stations about 6 months ago and they were pretty scary.
Yesterday I actually completed the Northern line, doing the High Barnet and Mill Hill East branches and bringing the total number of tube stations I've visited to over 150.. Couldn't spot the old names on the platforms at Warren Street though, which was odd. And I also finished off the eastern leg of the Jubilee and District lines too, although I'm rather annoyed that the Labyrinths at Bow Road and Stepney Green have been stolen (Bow Road's is completely missing, Stepney Green's has 3 of the 4 sides of the mounting frame still present but no actual labyrinth in place). Hopefully gonna finish the rest of the District plus maybe the H&C tomorrow.
In Boston, a large number of our train stations feature one (or more!) "island platforms". Not once have I been afraid of being pushed into the tracks. Why? Looking at the videos, it is instantly clear: our island platforms are just... bigger. Those platforms are tiny!! I'd be afraid of being pushed onto the tracks even if it WASN'T an island platform...
The Great Eastern from Liverpool Street was obligated to charge workmens fares because of the amount of inner london housing it displaced in building the station.
I was born in Stockwell and lived to the north of Clapham Junction as a toddler but moved to Hertfordshire aged three in 1953. As a callow youth I would explore London alone and once alighted the tube at Angel on the former narrow island platform, I was very disturbed, perhaps sensing those passengers who met an untimely end there. Or was I remembering my earlier childhood visits to my grandparents flat who lived very close to Clapham North?
If this scares you, you should visit the Glasgow Subway (underground).
You'll have to make a missive entitled "The wrath of Kahn" detailing the demise of the Bakerloo Line and Sadik's efforts to save it from the ghost of Dr Beeching! Your videos are always a pleasure to watch. Thanks for uploading.
I remember the old layout at Angel as I passed through it from KingsX on the way to Old St every day. I didn't even give it a thought on how it might be dangerous.
It was fine except during rush hour. Standing on a jam-packed platform there was often a noticeable shift towards the opposite edge as a train disgorged its passengers. It also used to have lifts rather than escalators so passengers arrived in pulses which sent shock waves of shifting commuters down the platform. I tried to avoid the edge as it could feel rather precarious.
Hi Jago, I liked that video. Especially the shots of the old Angel Station building. My dear old late dad and the company he worked for built the grey zinc roof just above the station!
He worked for a company called BIZ who are owned by the Smith family. The same family that advertise themselves and restored the nearby ornate clock opposite the station in City Road. My dad worked on most of roofs of the Universities and cathedrals in the UK as well as famous buildings like The MOD bulding in Whitehall, The Royal Festival Hall on the south bank and one of his last jobs he worked on was the stainless steel domes on the Thames Barrier. He left his mark on the capital!
I keep thinking I should do a video on the Barrier. Those domes are still spectacular.
@@JagoHazzard My dad said it was amazing to see all these diggers in the dammed off river bed excavations working on the foundations to the piers. Worrying to realise that only some interlocking steel panels driven deep into the river bed kept the Thames from engulfing you whilst working 40feet or so below the high water mark way above you!
To answer a comment below re the mysterious ladder stairs at the end of the platform at Clapham Common - they ascend not to Mordor, but to the now-bricked-up signal box suspended above the far-end, just beyond which were scissor-style crossover points. These were (sadly!) removed back in the early 80s I think, but had originated from the years (1900-1926) when Clapham Common was the end of the line. When I was a Clapham youngster in the 1960s, the signal box still had its dirty windows which overlooked the platform, and standing underneath it when a train came in (and if you were lucky, with one going out as well!) was really exciting - like being in the middle of Armageddon due to incredibly loud, thunderclap noise and racket from the points, accompanied by blinding flashes of arc-lightning as the trains passed over them!! Ah, childhood!😄
Not experienced the *tube* at Clapham, but using the Glasgow subway when staying there for a week was a bit scary - and that was usually outside of rush hour as well!
I'm VERY surprised that there's only two stations like this, this kind of platform layout is what I think of when I think of "Underground Metro/Subway/Tube station".
There are more island platforms (e.g. the one at Gants Hill), but none as narrow as this.
Great video. I thought there still is disused tunnels at one side of both Clap North & Common stations that were built up to the outbreak of ww2 which of course were going to be fast/express lines? ..although i guess it would still cost plenty to make alterations including a updated track.
There are, but it’s complicated. I’m actually planning a video on the subject.
Loving the shade over MyLondon at the end! Another excellent video!
Your "Thank you" shout outs are in the best tradition of music hall double entendres: sometimes enigmatic, but you know they've got to be dirty.
I remember as a child feeling a rush of fear (and exhilaration) on descending the stairs to that narrow platform at Clapham Common. I love those stations. I love the tube.
If you look at diagrams of the deep level tube shelters at the Clapham stations, they run close to the running tunnels. It might be that widening would be a problem, not due to the shelter tunnels themselves, but what lies on the other side of the running tunnels that would be too expensive to get round. (If you haven't done a video on them, one would be welcome I'm sure. Including the abortive schemes at Oval and St. Pauls of course :-) )
I don't think widening the existing tunnel is possible because of the amount of disruption. During the works it would be impossible to run a train service (even a non stop service) so the southern end of the Northern line would need to be closed. A short term solution might be to put rising barriers down both sides of these platforms. During the morning peak trains would run non stop Southbound with the barriers in place to protect passengers waiting on the island platform for the northbound services. Between the peaks both barriers would be lowered and both platforms in use, while in the evening peak the Southbound platforms would be in use with non stop northbound trains protected by barriers. Passengers travelling against the dominant flow would have to travel in the wrong direction and change direction at Clapham South or Stockwell.
@@chrisadye1590 You could install platform doors. Doesn't help with the crowds put prevents people falling on the tracks.
@@chrisadye1590 But what is the solution of off peak times
One measure to avoid people falling onto the rail at any station would be to have a glass window installed with doors at the locations the train's doors end up when it comes to a halt. Reduces noise, reduces risk, and helps make it easier to regulate temperature inside the station, a win all around in my book.
Hi Jago, My brother and I used the Northern Line station at Clapham South 5-6 days a week for three years back in the late 1960's! We used to get off at other stops prior to ours if we were going to our favorite Pub on occasions. We never had any problems with these 'single island 'stations.. Either we were young and "bullet-proof" or more likely back then over half a century ago, the tube was not as crowded.. We enjoyed seeing our old stations, on your video as we both live on the other side of the world now, in our native country- New Zealand!
I remember the old island platform at Angel with a certain amount of dread ! 😱 Not that I used that station very often but on a few occasions in the past I vividly remember almost having to fight my way through the outgoing crowds as I tried to enter the station.
I am so terrified of those platforms - I used to commute to Clapham Common and would make sure I was at the right end of the train to not have to walk up the platform. On the way home I'd wait at the top of the stairs and nip down once the train arrived.
It could have been worse I suppose - at least I'm not in Edwardian skirts....
I used to get the tube from Moorgate up the the Angel and one day the train went straight through Angel without stopping so I got of at Kings Cross ran through the connecting tunnel to the return line only to have the train, once again, not stop at Angel so changed at Old Street to go back to the Angel but it didn't stop again.
Eventually there was an announcement that only one lift was working at the Angel and as a result there were too many people on the centre platform, so they just didn't stop the train there.
I was at Clapham North just last weekend, and was a bit shocked and disconcerted that these little narrow ribbons still existed. I remember the one at Angel and had no knock to my nostalgia when I saw the recent refurbishment. Frankly, these 'islands' are tiny and - even if they were less frequented when built - they're a badly-designed nightmare. Thanks for the vid, though.
It must be over 50 years since I first noticed these island platforms on the Northern Line, and I did wonder at the time whether anybody in London Tranport was concerned about their rather narrow width and their safety at peak times. After some years, clearly they were recognised and some stations had a second tunnel built for another platform and the existing tunnel became a single platform.
Nice to see somebody else knew about them (Jago H !!). I remember years ago standing at the top of the single and narrow set of stairs to descend to the platforms and thinking "you've got to be joking !!
Due to the ridiculous platform size I never enjoyed catching the tube from Clapham North (circa 1991) even though I was going in the opposite direction to most of the commuters. This was a major factor in my deciding to commute by car instead! Thanks for the memories!
Absolutely brilliant video. Very interesting, concise and fact filled. Thanks for sharing.
The 'island platforms' are very unique and interesting.
Excellent video. Great diction. Very interesting. Love the humour as well First time I've come across you.
Good evening jago, great video as always
At least one knew in which direction the next arrival was heading by the temperature of the draught, a Northbound train at Clapham Common was pushing the cold air from Morden in front of it.
If you are at South Wimbledon the air is freezing on one side, so a tip, wait on the southbound platform for a warm up then run to the north as the next train is announced. Probably applies all the way to Tooting
Having spent a lot of time in Paris I have noted that some of the Metro platforms have island platforms and if my memory serves me correctly there is a station near PSGs ground which has this feature (I bet that is fun after games against Marseille) . These have always made me nervous and I can remember as a child being terrified of them. As with heights I try to combat this by using them and was in Clapham about three summer's ago. But they still made me nervous as I felt that I was going to slide toward the track . This said I was a brave boy and let s couple of trains pass in either direction to prove that I was just silly. The thing is that I love the look and the geography of island platforms . Closing a few days after my Clapham experience I climbed Dane John in Canterbury and had exactly the same reaction. I think it was the fall of about three feet to the path below that unnerved me . We are strange creatures ......
NYC has some stations like this. 72nd/Broadway on the west side IRT has 2 very narrow platforms between the 4 tracks. (original station dating to 1904). Not quite this narrow, but a bit scary at rush hour.
"You are the widened tunnels to my commuter train"...love that! Brilliant as ever, many thanks!
@2:56 I'd recognise Didcot Railway Centre anywhere, as it's my nearest local steam preservation museum!
Forgive my ignorance of London geography, but are these two stations consecutive stops? If so, are they close enough to each other to make one northbound-only and the other south (or whatever direction the line runs) without unduly inconveniencing riders?
As a timid little boy visiting from the country in the 1950s, Clapham North was my first introduction to London Underground. I was probably too fascinated by the whole experience to be scared, but I do remember alighting from a busy train just as an equally busy one in the opposite direction disgorged its crowds. My legs turned to jelly at that point especially when I had to walk along the platform after the trains had pulled out. When it's quiet it's equally scary because you might find yourself alone with a homicidal maniac.
The way leave of most of Londons tube causes problems, I went to a shop in Clapham high road and went down stairs and every train could be heard and felt rumbling by. The platforms at Common and North are just legal within the railway part of H&S legislation, however they are not if you stand by a sign or a INFO point. 6 Feet was the bare minimum.
Given how close the two stations are (10 minutes' walk), I wonder about closing one northbound and the other southbound, and bricking up the closed platform edges.
Is this falling from the platform idea a real concern in London ? Never heard this in any other country.Widening the outer curve should be no problem these days, it just costs money.
Clapham in South London is quite a unique area especially Clapham North, Clapham Common, Clapham South, Clapham Junction and Clapham High Street stations that do serve Clapham and Battersea.
And with the Northern Line extended to Battersea Power Station. There is hope for Transport for London to extend it one stop to Clapham Junction. Where it will connect with London Overground and National Rail services.
I can recall using Angel Station in the 1980's and it use to frighten the life out of me at rush hour times, I seem to recall that the station staff would stop passengers descending to the platform to prevent severe overcrowding.
Since these trains aren’t automated, what’s stopping the company from installing safety rails on either side, with gates that slide open when the train hits a certain point in the track?
Also seems like the big signs and other obstacles on the platform force people to get closer than needed to the tracks.
Thank You Jago!!! I now know of Of two persons called Jago. Yourself and an eight week old boy of a friend of mine. I always thought the name had irs origins in Scandinavia. But have been recently told its of West Country origin.
Anyone noticed the latest at station tube map (or is it London Connections ). The blob connector at Kennington has been elongated from the Morden Branch and the Battersea Power Station Branch, it is easy to miss that the West End Branch exists at all. I was helping a couple at Colliers Wood - where do you want to go - " Tottenham Court" ( actually I was thinking WHERE IS Tottenham Court ?), so showed the Kennington Connection - they thought it was a long walk at Kennington and did the trains for Tottenham Court Road actually stop at the same station ! - I explained it was straightforward across one platform - I then confirmed that the Theatre they wanted was actually in the Vicinity- I think it was the Shaftsbury ( which is possibly easier for those that know the walking route to access from Leicester Square Station side exit). I am not certain if the pedestrian exits and subways have changed at Tottenham Court Road with Crossrail activity and practical completion
The Glasgow subway has equally scary platforms, for example at Cowcaddens which I sometimes have the misfortune to use. You always have to hope that two trains don't arrive simultaneously.
Clapham North, a pain to change out of at morning peak to get to Clapham High Street - which ever since promoted as Overground is much greater used than it was. OSI from Stockwell and Clapham Common would help.
Great video. Plenty of Metro stations in places like Russia South Korean Japan have barrier set up to stop people from falling onto the tracks some strange that they wouldn't have used them in the London underground.
same problem on the Glasgow underground
With the added problem that it's going round and round.
@@jerribee1 And its in Glasgow
(Sorry couldn't resist)
Here at Portugal in Espinho we have a island platform at the train station and tbh it's way easier and safer in any kind of way, but this, it's short, not large just like in Espinho, it should be bigger.
Island platforms on the Underground remind me of home, my home underground, The Glasgow Underground, more commonly referred to as the "Subway"
It's shocking how narrow that platform is. When you look at island platforms in Toronto, they're much wider but usually they always have walls in the way down the centre. In most cases, these walls are hiding storage rooms etc but this takes up space on the platform that could've been left open which means that the wider width is mooted. At some stations like Union, it became a serious issue because Union, thanks to the growth and development around the area quickly suffered from extreme capacity issues. The station was handing WAY more people in modern times than it had been designed and built for in 1954 and this issue is accentuated tenfold whenever there's a major event downtown which is common due to all the sports games/races we hold here among other things.
In the 2010s, as the main Union station was undergoing renovations, the ttc undertook their own in the subway station. This involved digging out and building an all new platform that is extra wide to allow for potential future growth and even was directly connected to the streetcar loop. The old island platform was made to be used exclusively for the University side of line 1 with the ttc using the full width of the platform and adding a wall to the south edge whilst the new platform is for the yonge side. This gives Union station a unique layout among ttc stations with two side platforms but both of them facing north.
Bloor-Yonge station is to receive similar treatment. Line 1's platforms were already widened in 1992 when it was clear back then they're were too narrow for the unexpected capacity and will be made wider still. Line 2's platforms however are in the island configuration. It's not known why but it might have to do with how Lines 1 and 2 originally operated when the latter opened in 1966. the ttc is planning to dig out and build a new wide side platform and use the old island for one direction, same as Union.
Another interesting video. I use Clapham North/Common everyday and it certainly does get busy in the rush hour
New York City has some similar situations, for example 72nd Street on the 1,2,3 trains.
Getting your ham clapped on the platform lol at Clapham
The clap in Balham is Common (allegedly)
The stop where "An American Warewolf in London" wasn't a island platform. Where was that? Or was that a Soundstage?
Tokyo Yamanote line installs barriers on narrow platforms for that reason. These go where the 'MIND THE GAP' sign would be and open when the train doors line up behind the barrier.
I remember Angel island platform. As a student we’d commute over from South London for Saturday night drinking. Many island platforms on NYC subway/underground