Had a chance to get one when I was 14 was at a gun store used for about 400 to 500 didnt know what it was worth at the time was going to be my Christmas gift I wanted it father said "oh no you don't want that" after being told I didn't want a few other guns I was finally told what I wanted which is an old semi auto mossberg 22 rifle put into a plastic shell to make it look like an ar15 so they could ride on the ar train Incase its not clear im still fucking salty
@@royrogers3624 Reminds me of when my dad told me that an LS engine swap is "a rich man's swap" and I instead ended up with a 350ci Buick V8. I have thus far spent enough money on that engine to make an LS swap comparable, it makes significantly less power than an LS in stock form, AND I need to tear it apart and rebuild it now. I should have at least bought a 455 if I was gonna stay old school...
@@possiblycrazy442 ill be honesf im completly ignorant of cars but I understand that feeling literally had to explain to this man that no a 22 long rifle is not as powerful as a 308 Winchester as he tried to tell me a 22lr would be just as good at aroun 200 yards as the 308 for taking down a deer Just enough knowledge to think they're right but not enough to know they're wrong
I actually just looked it up, they are available from Steyr for $1,600. About 600 more than your average hunting rifle but for the Cadillac quality it's known for, I don't think it's actually unreasonable. Seems like a really comfortable rifle to save up for. If you already have enough for a Remington 700, might as well take a few months to get the rest for a Steyr but that's just me.
@@royrogers3624 I picked that up during the 2020 riots, was all I could afford for 220$, but hey 2 weeks later Jacob Blake was shot in my town and I said "told ya so" to my parents XD. Thank god I didn't have to use it, but my uncle had to call some friends to take up arms at his business near I94.
I tried replicating your stance. I tried viewing it through a mirror, turned the screen up side down but nothing worked. My granddaughter was walking by and picked it up immediately. She is left-handed. I love my granddaughter. Excellent video.
Ah yes now you have experienced just a small amount of what left handed folks have to do when watching handed tutorials. Btw your granddaughter is clearly awesome.
I set theese slings up on 2 of my guns and used them for years. But had a bit of a personal thing so i sorta left shooting for a year (well any thatd justify using sling support) Picked up my AA S410 (PCP rifle) today and just couldnt make heads or tails of the ching sling for the longest time, even thought for a sec that i put it on the gun backwards. Came back here watched the video and got it right in one go. Even had that muscle memory of doing it in a hurry.. once i recalled.
I had almost forgotten Jeff Cooper . His experiences, practical use, and mostly importantly of sensible use of a firearm will always be with me. Thanks for the simple instructions that will help any proper markmanshi.
For those that want to employ something similar but don't want to (potentially) drill a third sling swivel mount Galco makes the "Safari Ching Sling" that achieves similar results. I have one on my Ruger Gunsite Scout and I love it!
USMC still teaches sling discipline, the most common type we use is a Vickers sling that works very similarly but is two-point with a sliding tab to lengthen or shorten it as needed. Incredibly useful and easy to adjust when going from standing to kneeling to prone.
In the Army now whenever I do weapons qualifying I always use my standard 2 point sling like this wrapping my arm through the sling. It really helps to keep the weapon stable.
In peacetime, Ian is too friendly and mild-mannered for people to see Gandalf in him. Just wait until Chinese troops have landed on the west-coast and are trying to make it over the Sierra Nevada. I suspect Ian shall strongly object to their passing.
I put my slings on my rifles with a twist for the same reason . I learned the trick from a USMC rifle instructor when I was trained on the M14 as a navy security guard . When I got back home my deer hunter uncle borrowed my Remington 700 and commented on the twist when he returned it . He did the same with his rifle slings afterwards . Thanks Ian !
I when through USMC boot in 08, and we were still taught how to use shooting slings on the range with our a2's. Considering how "old" the corps like to be, im guessing they probably still do this. I did see one guy try to use a sling his rifle in the sitting position, and take a long shot at a insurgent in Iraq. As you might guess, by the time he was set, the target was gone.
The Ching Sling (named after Eric Ching) evolved from the 'CW' (Carlos Widmann) set-up which worked in the same way but used only one strap which could be moved between three swivel attachments..One of the main reasons Cooper first used the Pachmayer detachable swivels...One for carrying (outside attachments) and shooting (forward and mid). Eric came up with the idea to add the secondary strap and thus negate having to swap mounting points.
Yeah, a little bit. This page rates "waifus" and they reviewed Mr. McCollum extremely well haha facebook.com/tennisandballs/photos/a.622955334521763.1073741828.622943774522919/870139503136677/?type=3&theater
@@unncommonsense thank you. since posting this comment I have bought a few guns and built an AR. Currently contemplating a gun-smithing program in another state after following this channel among several other gun related ones and a podcast.
Always found prone with a sling to be a very enjoyable way of shooting. I used a Swiss K31 in competition for years and there was nothing better than snuggling into the sling for those 300 meter competitions...
I learned to use the hasty sling at an Appleseed, I like it. I found the bicep loop sling to be too much hassle, especially with position changes in the mix.
Ian, just catching up to this one five years on. I'd put in a word for the basic GI web sling, (not the later nylon ones) for support. They are simpler, cheap and work. I used them for about 25 years shooting service rifle in DCM/NRA competition. A guy out at Camp Perry, who didn't know my friend (a Distinguished Rifleman) told him that noone could make Distinguished using a web sling. My friend looked over at another guy (also Distinguished) and asked if they had to give their Distinguished medals back !
I remember when I was younger, a member of the community who was a marine in Vietnam showed me how to use a shooting sling. I was really young, but I still remember how, and sometimes use it.
Ian, since you're in the peculiar position of being able to aim down the sights of more guns from different eras than nearly anyone around. What would you consider to be your favorite iron sights for ease of target acquisition, precision, neat features, or combination?
I love my m1 have not shot it extremely far would say nearly 100m probably 75 maybe 80 and found it easy to acquire the target granted its a standard size target nothing super small or anything , but I am a little bia I think the M1 is the best ww2 rifle i have shot and i have shot quite a few lol for a 30 06 it has one of the easiest recoils i have handled in a weapon other than my m4 and I am twig of person.
I was a mortarman in the Marine Corp in the early 80's, and was trained with M-16A1 and was issued a brand new M-16A2 in late 1984 or early 1985. In boot camp, at the rifle range, we were given the range sling to try out putting it on and seeing how it worked, but we weren't issued one of those slings and didn't fire our rifles using it. Just had a familiarization class on them. We were taught to use the Hasty Sling with the standard sling issued with the rifle. I thought that the Hasty Sling method works much better. The range sling just had a loop that went around your bicep, and you could cinch up. But it just hooked to the front sling swivel, and because it wasn't hooked to the rear sling swivel like your Ching sling is, it always tended to fall down your bicep. It was an awful sling, in my opinion. The Hasty Sling method is quick and simple and really steady's the rifle. I always use the Hasty Sling method whenever I fire my rifles. You do have to have the sling adjusted correctly for it to work well. There's a simple way to adjust it. You just sling the rifle over your shoulder and have your arm bent 90% and adjust the sling to where it works best to carry it on your shoulder, just like you would in a parade formation, and that seems to be about a perfect adjustment for everyone. You can fine-tune it after that, but you probably won't need to. It just needs to be tight enough that the rifle is pointing were you are aiming. And drops back to the target after recoiling. If you are bare armed or wearing a jacket, may necessitate a change in the adjustment. You should try it. I have a Mosin Nagant 91-30 and I can shoot groups under 3 inches at 100 yds with light ball, steel case surplus ammo in the sitting position.
The US Marines taught the shooting sling through at least the late 90's when I cycled through. Don't quote me, but I believe that it only finally ended with the adoption of the ACOG.
We used a similar method in the British forces but we just used the standard rifle sling, no "third leg" involved, it was fast and kept the rifle faintly stable, don't know if they even use a rifle sling with the L85 anymore.
I have a long history of competition with the formal shooting sling. My elk rifle has worn a Ching Sling for many years, and I have killed a lot of game from sitting with it, including a bison. There is no doubt that, when it is well set up, it is very fast and rock solid. You need to practice. A lot. In my opinion it is a very solid alternative to shooting sticks or bipods.
Yeah, the Corps still teaches how to prepare a hasty sling and a loop/shooting sling, but no one actually uses the latter in the field. Not even the designated marksman.
this is the most interesting gun thing I've seen so far, and it has nothing to do with the gun itself! I love it, this is why I am a patreon supporter.
Back in the sixties when I was introduced to shooting our intructor showed his match sling which he called a '' short arm sling''. The dual purpose Ching looks easier to use. 😊
Any plans to do a video on the M1907 sling? I would be very interested in knowing more about where the idea came from and how it was implemented vs how it was envisioned.
Now I want to see a bunch of comparative videos about different types of slings, their practical utility, etc. I mean, I know way more about the internals of guns than slings at this point, and it's one of the most basic accessories...
growing up in the cadets we had these stiff canvas jackets with padded elbows and a pad for your shooting shoulder along with a sling on your support arm. it takes a couple of hours to get used to, but it shows imidiate results down range
Yup. Same only I was a target/match shooter. If your hand wasn't going numb, the sling wasn't tight enough ;) We used to train to control breathing and pulse as the pulse would transmit down the sling and cause the rifle to bounce ever so slightly, so you'd shoot with your breath out and between your heartbeats. Crazy stuff. Shooting a V Bull at 1200yds on a 7.62 Parker Hale target rifle or 10 shots through a 1-2 inch hole on a good day at 100yds with .22LR out of an anschutz 1903 both with simple diopter iron sights but all thanks to the sling, canvas jacket and a good solid prone firing position.
So I feel like I self-developed a weird sling thing like this, based on the original shooting sling stuff (taught to me by my ww2 vet grampappy, who was/is a pistol/rifle marksman with whatever that designation is in us army terms). When I got my first rifle, I put a folding stock on it, and the sling was at the rear handle and the front of the handgrip (mini-14/butler creek side folder). basically, I just did the sling trick as I had been taught- so you grab the strap under your hand on the front grip of the rifle, and the combined angle of your grip there and the loop around your upper arm allows you to pull the whole gun tighter into your shoulder so that you can aim with greater stability and lock your head, arms, and upper torso together so you can aim with your whole body, in theory anyway. To do it it's basically, when you hold the gun to fire, stick your front arm through the strap past the elbow, grab the strap and forend together, and pull back with your elbow, sort of like the 'pull from the elbow' trick with the trigger. It's not that I think my shit is special- I think people with straps on guns probably have figured out how to use them to put shots on target more accurately, particularly in ambushes and such when you have premeditation about where and how you're going to shoot the other side.
cool! I did a bit if competition shooting in college. Difficult to get into/out of those slings is an understatement. It didn't help when the damn thing made your arm fall asleep either lol. But man do they work. I might as well have been using a bipod. I'd love to try one like this some time and see how it compares.
Have you considered creating an improvised nylon version of this for your WWSD rifle. I believe you would only have to add a third, forward sling attachment point.
I was taught to wrap the standard sling around my arm and pull in as tight as I could in basic. Obviously not as ideal, but better than nothing for the kneeling section of the rifle qualification. I thought that was pretty high speed until I realized slings are pointless in combat. Two point slings are a nightmare in full kit and three point slings just add pointless bulk and don't efficiently provide you with rife accessibility. A couple loops of gutted 550 cord on a carabiner hooked to to butt stock hanging from the shoulder of your plate carrier is the easiest way to deal with all that nonsense. I'd love to have this on a hunting or sporting rifle though. I wonder how hard it would be to rig this up on the cheap? Imma have to look into this.
_Trav_ Cole Bullshite, thousands of pictures of GI's from WWII to Vietnam holding their rifles twisted through a shooting sling style. If you'd ever been raised on bolt actions and especially .308 as a teen-ager you'd eventual figure it out using an 11 lb. match rifle. It's natural, it works in combat.
_Trav_ Cole Everyone’s weapons development, actually. Basically no standard issue weapons were explicitly for battlefield conditions except... maybe the Garand and some smg’s? Almost everything else was basically a hunting rifle
Interesting. I had no idea the US Army no longer teaches how to use a sling. Makes sense though if the M4s are all carried on a single point attached at the rear. When I was in we were taught to use the sling with our M14s. I find even on the older sling patterns, such as the Trapdoor rifle and Civil War muskets the use of a sling is important for those long heavy rifles as a front end stabilizer.
Also, some Marines DID use shooting slings in combat in WW2, but presumably it was very rare. The one instance recounted, was Marines on a beach shooting Japanese soldiers trying to escape by swimming away (rather than surrendering) - so a turkey shoot situation.
Correct - on Guadalcanal. I remember reading about it in either Robert Leckie or Eugene Sledge's book, but I cannot recall which at the moment and my google-fu is failing me.
I know you said "from any _supported_ position," but it'd be nice to hear you describe what that means. People with no sling experience may try a sling in an offhand position, the way you did, notice that it adds no real benefit at all, and discard the idea without understanding that nine-tenths of a sling's steadiness comes from having your elbow resting on something steady. Put on a sling--Ching or otherwise--and rest your elbow on a solid surface, and feel your world change.
A half Ching Sling could work. Just have the front an middle attached with a strap, twisted 1/2 turn or whatever. Might work very well in some situations.
Wasn't there another 3 point sling that was similar that was used to keep the rifle from 'bouncing' around on your back when skiing or cross country hiking/running??
"I don't think any G.I. actually used it." I know a marine captain (Ret) that swears by it. WHEN IT'S AN ADVANTAGE. Not always, not never, like you said it's primarilly for long-range accuracy (Let me just say Afgnanistan. Rural Afghanistan, probably not the Decade you think of first, and leave it at that.) With partial mobility. Which means not prone, on your feet, and shouldered, but able to "Shot, and Scoot" with squad maneuvers like the Australian Peal. With covering fire, when they're WAAAAAAAY out there. I believe mostly with M-14s, but I can't swear to that.
it's weird in germany we're using and we're taught a completely different kind of back sling, it has a similar effect but isn't using the triceps or some ackward technique
As a person who uses shooting slings I'm not only surprised I have never heard of this, I'm horrified I don't yet own one on all of my rifles 0_0 Also Ian the modern slings have a quick release so you can unhook it from the rifle. (you still have to have it on your arm constantly though)
Ian, the CW Sling came first, which is simpler - think just the front half of the Ching Sling. The CW works exactly the same as the Ching Sling for SHOOTING, but is not useful for carrying the rifle. The Ching Sling is actually an answer to the question, "How can you make a CW Sling that also works for carrying the rifle?".
you should show the British army rifle song. The current one is a good bit of kit and as far as I know the American military use a totally different style of rifle sling
It's another 3 point sling. When I was first in the army I think other countries were still using more conventional slings when it was first issued. I will try and find a link
Cooper referenced that in his writing, the Bisley-style 2-point, where both ends of the sling are mounted forward. He called it the "CW" sling, after Carlos Widmann who introduced him to it. Ian did, in the video, refer to the regular "hasty" sling. Downside to it, the tension is pretty equal to both the front swivel and the rear swivel, which doesn't do you as much good for shooting stability as a sling that only has tension to the front.
Same for me IRL. Not the same as a Bisley sling for sure but for field shooting, the 'hasty' sling is usually enough if there wasn't a rest for my rifle, and I do/did use it most times. But still good how a simple idea can try to make shooting easier. I like!
GOSH DARN IT, STEYR SCOUT! STOP BEING SO INTERESTING! I CAN'T AFFORD YOU!!!!
Had a chance to get one when I was 14 was at a gun store used for about 400 to 500 didnt know what it was worth at the time was going to be my Christmas gift I wanted it father said "oh no you don't want that" after being told I didn't want a few other guns I was finally told what I wanted which is an old semi auto mossberg 22 rifle put into a plastic shell to make it look like an ar15 so they could ride on the ar train
Incase its not clear im still fucking salty
@@royrogers3624 Reminds me of when my dad told me that an LS engine swap is "a rich man's swap" and I instead ended up with a 350ci Buick V8. I have thus far spent enough money on that engine to make an LS swap comparable, it makes significantly less power than an LS in stock form, AND I need to tear it apart and rebuild it now. I should have at least bought a 455 if I was gonna stay old school...
@@possiblycrazy442 ill be honesf im completly ignorant of cars but I understand that feeling literally had to explain to this man that no a 22 long rifle is not as powerful as a 308 Winchester as he tried to tell me a 22lr would be just as good at aroun 200 yards as the 308 for taking down a deer
Just enough knowledge to think they're right but not enough to know they're wrong
I actually just looked it up, they are available from Steyr for $1,600. About 600 more than your average hunting rifle but for the Cadillac quality it's known for, I don't think it's actually unreasonable. Seems like a really comfortable rifle to save up for. If you already have enough for a Remington 700, might as well take a few months to get the rest for a Steyr but that's just me.
@@royrogers3624 I picked that up during the 2020 riots, was all I could afford for 220$, but hey 2 weeks later Jacob Blake was shot in my town and I said "told ya so" to my parents XD. Thank god I didn't have to use it, but my uncle had to call some friends to take up arms at his business near I94.
I tried replicating your stance. I tried viewing it through a mirror, turned the screen up side down but nothing worked.
My granddaughter was walking by and picked it up immediately. She is left-handed. I love my granddaughter.
Excellent video.
Ah yes now you have experienced just a small amount of what left handed folks have to do when watching handed tutorials.
Btw your granddaughter is clearly awesome.
I set theese slings up on 2 of my guns and used them for years. But had a bit of a personal thing so i sorta left shooting for a year (well any thatd justify using sling support) Picked up my AA S410 (PCP rifle) today and just couldnt make heads or tails of the ching sling for the longest time, even thought for a sec that i put it on the gun backwards.
Came back here watched the video and got it right in one go. Even had that muscle memory of doing it in a hurry.. once i recalled.
Actually the US Marine Corps still teaches this method of shooting with a two point sling.
Its really comfortable and provides a good platform.
I had almost forgotten Jeff Cooper . His experiences, practical use, and mostly importantly of sensible use of a firearm will always be with me. Thanks for the simple instructions that will help any proper markmanshi.
For those that want to employ something similar but don't want to (potentially) drill a third sling swivel mount Galco makes the "Safari Ching Sling" that achieves similar results. I have one on my Ruger Gunsite Scout and I love it!
im a die hard user of this sling. i learned to use it when i was in JROTC rifle team, and i still it for hunting.
USMC still teaches sling discipline, the most common type we use is a Vickers sling that works very similarly but is two-point with a sliding tab to lengthen or shorten it as needed. Incredibly useful and easy to adjust when going from standing to kneeling to prone.
That honestly looks like a pretty decent idea... Especially for hunting
There's also the Rhodesian sling which is similar in concept but only requires two sling swivels.
www.andysleather.com/
He makes really nice ones.
RHODESIA NEVER DIES!!!!!!!
@@Chromatic_Death Silence, colonialist
In the Army now whenever I do weapons qualifying I always use my standard 2 point sling like this wrapping my arm through the sling. It really helps to keep the weapon stable.
Gun Jesus is a good nickname, but with a name so close to Ian McKellen, I'm surprised no one has called him "Gandalf the Gunmetal" yet.
Gun Magneto
Gundalf
@@JanTuts holy shit this is it.
In peacetime, Ian is too friendly and mild-mannered for people to see Gandalf in him. Just wait until Chinese troops have landed on the west-coast and are trying to make it over the Sierra Nevada. I suspect Ian shall strongly object to their passing.
I put my slings on my rifles with a twist for the same reason . I learned the trick from a USMC rifle instructor when I was trained on the M14 as a navy security guard . When I got back home my deer hunter uncle borrowed my Remington 700 and commented on the twist when he returned it . He did the same with his rifle slings afterwards . Thanks Ian !
I when through USMC boot in 08, and we were still taught how to use shooting slings on the range with our a2's. Considering how "old" the corps like to be, im guessing they probably still do this.
I did see one guy try to use a sling his rifle in the sitting position, and take a long shot at a insurgent in Iraq. As you might guess, by the time he was set, the target was gone.
jontheballer same boot in 08 taught us the sling method both hasty
That's a convenient last name.
Air Budd i’ll take names that sound like racial slurs for $300
@@justme_gb yeah we all know Cha ching has the lowest quality potatoe chips
The Ching Sling (named after Eric Ching) evolved from the 'CW' (Carlos Widmann) set-up which worked in the same way but used only one strap which could be moved between three swivel attachments..One of the main reasons Cooper first used the Pachmayer detachable swivels...One for carrying (outside attachments) and shooting (forward and mid). Eric came up with the idea to add the secondary strap and thus negate having to swap mounting points.
I know very little about guns but seeing this channel posted around in memes has convinced me to start here for my journey
Yeah, a little bit. This page rates "waifus" and they reviewed Mr. McCollum extremely well haha
facebook.com/tennisandballs/photos/a.622955334521763.1073741828.622943774522919/870139503136677/?type=3&theater
that triple S rating lol
All the comments just make it better. "This nigga looks friendly as fuck"
@@RonnieJamesDeodorant Props on your nym, Mr. Deo.
@@unncommonsense thank you. since posting this comment I have bought a few guns and built an AR. Currently contemplating a gun-smithing program in another state after following this channel among several other gun related ones and a podcast.
Always found prone with a sling to be a very enjoyable way of shooting. I used a Swiss K31 in competition for years and there was nothing better than snuggling into the sling for those 300 meter competitions...
The revolutionary war veterans association teaches the sling, and it works , no more need of a bipod or sand bag , just sling up and score hits.
I learned to use the hasty sling at an Appleseed, I like it. I found the bicep loop sling to be too much hassle, especially with position changes in the mix.
@@atomic_wait I like the expression people make while they ponder the old slings on my modern rifles
That was actually a really good demonstration video.
Ian, just catching up to this one five years on. I'd put in a word for the basic GI web sling, (not the later nylon ones) for support. They are simpler, cheap and work. I used them for about 25 years shooting service rifle in DCM/NRA competition. A guy out at Camp Perry, who didn't know my friend (a Distinguished Rifleman) told him that noone could make Distinguished using a web sling. My friend looked over at another guy (also Distinguished) and asked if they had to give their Distinguished medals back !
I used the sling on my M-16 when I was in the military to get rock steady firing off-hand (well after WWII - 1990s-2000s). I found it very effective.
Ka Ching,,the Scout is amazingly light, really tactile,I will never own one so I appreciate your excellent video 🍀
I remember when I was younger, a member of the community who was a marine in Vietnam showed me how to use a shooting sling. I was really young, but I still remember how, and sometimes use it.
I love the spare magazine in the stock. Now I'm going to have to carve up my Boyd's stocks and do this to several rifles.
Yes make them fragile
Ian, since you're in the peculiar position of being able to aim down the sights of more guns from different eras than nearly anyone around. What would you consider to be your favorite iron sights for ease of target acquisition, precision, neat features, or combination?
RaeSyngKane ghost ring is simply the best imho, easiest to use, strangely rarely found on military rifles before 1960 (minus the US and a few others)
I love my m1 have not shot it extremely far would say nearly 100m probably 75 maybe 80 and found it easy to acquire the target granted its a standard size target nothing super small or anything , but I am a little bia I think the M1 is the best ww2 rifle i have shot and i have shot quite a few lol for a 30 06 it has one of the easiest recoils i have handled in a weapon other than my m4 and I am twig of person.
I believe the consensus between ian and karl was the valmet sights
For the record, the shooting sling is still taught in, at the very least, The Marines.
Same for the Army. Even during normal weapons qualifying. I always teach new soldiers or people having trouble to do it.
Can we all just appreciate how well "Ching Sling" rolls off the tongue?
I was a mortarman in the Marine Corp in the early 80's, and was trained with M-16A1 and was issued a brand new M-16A2 in late 1984 or early 1985.
In boot camp, at the rifle range, we were given the range sling to try out putting it on and seeing how it worked, but we weren't issued one of those slings and didn't fire our rifles using it. Just had a familiarization class on them.
We were taught to use the Hasty Sling with the standard sling issued with the rifle. I thought that the Hasty Sling method works much better. The range sling just had a loop that went around your bicep, and you could cinch up. But it just hooked to the front sling swivel, and because it wasn't hooked to the rear sling swivel like your Ching sling is, it always tended to fall down your bicep. It was an awful sling, in my opinion.
The Hasty Sling method is quick and simple and really steady's the rifle. I always use the Hasty Sling method whenever I fire my rifles.
You do have to have the sling adjusted correctly for it to work well. There's a simple way to adjust it. You just sling the rifle over your shoulder and have your arm bent 90% and adjust the sling to where it works best to carry it on your shoulder, just like you would in a parade formation, and that seems to be about a perfect adjustment for everyone. You can fine-tune it after that, but you probably won't need to. It just needs to be tight enough that the rifle is pointing were you are aiming. And drops back to the target after recoiling. If you are bare armed or wearing a jacket, may necessitate a change in the adjustment. You should try it. I have a Mosin Nagant 91-30 and I can shoot groups under 3 inches at 100 yds with light ball, steel case surplus ammo in the sitting position.
The US Marines taught the shooting sling through at least the late 90's when I cycled through. Don't quote me, but I believe that it only finally ended with the adoption of the ACOG.
lowell houser I went in 08 still taught.
Boot in 2016, still taught to use lots of tension on the vickers sling. M16A4 with RCO.
I have all of my rifle slings adjusted so I use the hasty sling. It's the best balance in speed and performance and can be done with any sling.
Yay, another Forgotten Accessories vid!
We used a similar method in the British forces but we just used the standard rifle sling, no "third leg" involved, it was fast and kept the rifle faintly stable, don't know if they even use a rifle sling with the L85 anymore.
You mean a 3 point sling that functions as designed and isn't got garbage? I love it.
I got one for my 10.5" AR a couple months ago. Even that short and with a light it works very well.
I do biathlon and can definitely say that the sort of locking your arm in works wonders, Google biathlon prone shooting if you've never seen it
Ian you should have borrowed an L85 sling whilst you were the proper side of the pond. The best bit of kit in the system.
I bet who ever buys this gun they will jump scout the hell out of some silver 1 deer.
"enemy spotted"
Best shooter channel!
I have a long history of competition with the formal shooting sling. My elk rifle has worn a Ching Sling for many years, and I have killed a lot of game from sitting with it, including a bison. There is no doubt that, when it is well set up, it is very fast and rock solid. You need to practice. A lot.
In my opinion it is a very solid alternative to shooting sticks or bipods.
Marines still taught the shooting sling in bootcamp when I went through.
Yeah, the Corps still teaches how to prepare a hasty sling and a loop/shooting sling, but no one actually uses the latter in the field. Not even the designated marksman.
this is the most interesting gun thing I've seen so far, and it has nothing to do with the gun itself! I love it, this is why I am a patreon supporter.
Back in the sixties when I was introduced to shooting our intructor showed his match sling which he called a '' short arm sling''. The dual purpose Ching looks easier to use. 😊
Any plans to do a video on the M1907 sling? I would be very interested in knowing more about where the idea came from and how it was implemented vs how it was envisioned.
Now I want to see a bunch of comparative videos about different types of slings, their practical utility, etc. I mean, I know way more about the internals of guns than slings at this point, and it's one of the most basic accessories...
Saying "ching sling" sounds like it would get you arrested in the UK
Learn something new every day here.
Very interesting I'm gonna make one of my own. Thanks for the great idea. Keep up the good work Ian.
growing up in the cadets we had these stiff canvas jackets with padded elbows and a pad for your shooting shoulder along with a sling on your support arm. it takes a couple of hours to get used to, but it shows imidiate results down range
Yup. Same only I was a target/match shooter.
If your hand wasn't going numb, the sling wasn't tight enough ;) We used to train to control breathing and pulse as the pulse would transmit down the sling and cause the rifle to bounce ever so slightly, so you'd shoot with your breath out and between your heartbeats. Crazy stuff.
Shooting a V Bull at 1200yds on a 7.62 Parker Hale target rifle or 10 shots through a 1-2 inch hole on a good day at 100yds with .22LR out of an anschutz 1903 both with simple diopter iron sights but all thanks to the sling, canvas jacket and a good solid prone firing position.
So I feel like I self-developed a weird sling thing like this, based on the original shooting sling stuff (taught to me by my ww2 vet grampappy, who was/is a pistol/rifle marksman with whatever that designation is in us army terms). When I got my first rifle, I put a folding stock on it, and the sling was at the rear handle and the front of the handgrip (mini-14/butler creek side folder). basically, I just did the sling trick as I had been taught- so you grab the strap under your hand on the front grip of the rifle, and the combined angle of your grip there and the loop around your upper arm allows you to pull the whole gun tighter into your shoulder so that you can aim with greater stability and lock your head, arms, and upper torso together so you can aim with your whole body, in theory anyway. To do it it's basically, when you hold the gun to fire, stick your front arm through the strap past the elbow, grab the strap and forend together, and pull back with your elbow, sort of like the 'pull from the elbow' trick with the trigger. It's not that I think my shit is special- I think people with straps on guns probably have figured out how to use them to put shots on target more accurately, particularly in ambushes and such when you have premeditation about where and how you're going to shoot the other side.
When I was shooting military competition, the 'arm wrap' was sop. I still use it-hunting and targets. Old habits and training.
Glad you addressed the twist in the front part of the sling. Was bothering the shit out of me. Makes sense though.
Wish I knew about this when I was into long distance target shooting. So tedious to use the traditional sling.
Didn't know about it - I want it.
Thanks!
That was a surprisingly interesting video.
cool! I did a bit if competition shooting in college. Difficult to get into/out of those slings is an understatement. It didn't help when the damn thing made your arm fall asleep either lol. But man do they work. I might as well have been using a bipod. I'd love to try one like this some time and see how it compares.
The last comment about the sling resting on the wrist just blew my mind. I always wondered why certain Riflemen twisted their slings, and now I know!
I saw on TH-cam a US Army 1943 training film which was precisely about that: aimed fire with sling support up to 600m. It felt so absurd.
that was as fancy as expected
Have you considered creating an improvised nylon version of this for your WWSD rifle. I believe you would only have to add a third, forward sling attachment point.
I insist that Ian use a Ching Sling when making his next Wasteland Shuffle entry. It only makes sense.
glad i watched this and will probably invest in one of these
I was taught to wrap the standard sling around my arm and pull in as tight as I could in basic. Obviously not as ideal, but better than nothing for the kneeling section of the rifle qualification. I thought that was pretty high speed until I realized slings are pointless in combat. Two point slings are a nightmare in full kit and three point slings just add pointless bulk and don't efficiently provide you with rife accessibility. A couple loops of gutted 550 cord on a carabiner hooked to to butt stock hanging from the shoulder of your plate carrier is the easiest way to deal with all that nonsense. I'd love to have this on a hunting or sporting rifle though. I wonder how hard it would be to rig this up on the cheap? Imma have to look into this.
"Great for matches...terrible on the battlefield" haha you just summed up US weapons development from World War 1 - World War 2
_Trav_ Cole and beyond (see m14 and m16a2)
_Trav_ Cole Bullshite, thousands of pictures of GI's from WWII to Vietnam holding their rifles twisted through a shooting sling style. If you'd ever been raised on bolt actions and especially .308 as a teen-ager you'd eventual figure it out using an 11 lb. match rifle. It's natural, it works in combat.
Lol...
Just think of what you just said.
_Trav_ Cole well, I'm just amazed at the level of stupid you've displayed here. Let's see...nope, this is a next-level stupid.
_Trav_ Cole Everyone’s weapons development, actually. Basically no standard issue weapons were explicitly for battlefield conditions except... maybe the Garand and some smg’s? Almost everything else was basically a hunting rifle
If you get the opportunity, please do a video on a shooting sling.
Interesting. I had no idea the US Army no longer teaches how to use a sling. Makes sense though if the M4s are all carried on a single point attached at the rear. When I was in we were taught to use the sling with our M14s. I find even on the older sling patterns, such as the Trapdoor rifle and Civil War muskets the use of a sling is important for those long heavy rifles as a front end stabilizer.
Marvellous.
Also, some Marines DID use shooting slings in combat in WW2, but presumably it was very rare. The one instance recounted, was Marines on a beach shooting Japanese soldiers trying to escape by swimming away (rather than surrendering) - so a turkey shoot situation.
Correct - on Guadalcanal. I remember reading about it in either Robert Leckie or Eugene Sledge's book, but I cannot recall which at the moment and my google-fu is failing me.
I know you said "from any _supported_ position," but it'd be nice to hear you describe what that means. People with no sling experience may try a sling in an offhand position, the way you did, notice that it adds no real benefit at all, and discard the idea without understanding that nine-tenths of a sling's steadiness comes from having your elbow resting on something steady.
Put on a sling--Ching or otherwise--and rest your elbow on a solid surface, and feel your world change.
Ive used one (i rigged one up) on my gunsite scout, it really does help.
You can pretty much do the same thing with a 2 point sling and its easier to get in and out of.
Exactly what I was thinking! I wonder if that half-twist of the front swivel he used would improve using the two point sling.
That sling looks just plain annoying!!! Thanks for showing us it!!!
🙂😎👍
A half Ching Sling could work. Just have the front an middle attached with a strap, twisted 1/2 turn or whatever. Might work very well in some situations.
The more I see of that steyr scout, the more I want one!
Nice vid sir!
very clever.
honestly cool, i might safe up to buy myself a steyr scout
Neat.
Would it help with an unsupported position? Thanks.
Kinda looks like you can use it on the MP5. The MP5 has three spots to hook a sling on the barrel, stock, and the magwell.
we're still taught to shoot like that for annual qualification shooting with a modern 2 point sling in boot camp.
Wasn't there another 3 point sling that was similar that was used to keep the rifle from 'bouncing' around on your back when skiing or cross country hiking/running??
That's seems like it would be good for a stop and stalk.
The U.S. military still (or at least in 2005) teaches how to use a shooting sling and a hasty sling for qualification at the range.
arent shooting slings kinda bad for flexing the barrel? ive heard that as a popular detractor.
"I don't think any G.I. actually used it." I know a marine captain (Ret) that swears by it. WHEN IT'S AN ADVANTAGE. Not always, not never, like you said it's primarilly for long-range accuracy (Let me just say Afgnanistan. Rural Afghanistan, probably not the Decade you think of first, and leave it at that.) With partial mobility. Which means not prone, on your feet, and shouldered, but able to "Shot, and Scoot" with squad maneuvers like the Australian Peal. With covering fire, when they're WAAAAAAAY out there. I believe mostly with M-14s, but I can't swear to that.
I know it could be quite hard, but could a video on the Soviet Ptrs-41 be in the cards?
it's weird in germany we're using and we're taught a completely different kind of back sling, it has a similar effect but isn't using the triceps or some ackward technique
You can do basically the same thing with any soft sling.
Is there a light-weight nylon version Ching-Sling?
As a person who uses shooting slings I'm not only surprised I have never heard of this, I'm horrified I don't yet own one on all of my rifles 0_0
Also Ian the modern slings have a quick release so you can unhook it from the rifle. (you still have to have it on your arm constantly though)
Ian, the CW Sling came first, which is simpler - think just the front half of the Ching Sling. The CW works exactly the same as the Ching Sling for SHOOTING, but is not useful for carrying the rifle. The Ching Sling is actually an answer to the question, "How can you make a CW Sling that also works for carrying the rifle?".
is this legal for competition?
The only reason he made it was because his last name was Ching.
Can't you do this with a regular 2 point sling?
I'm sold. I think I have my dream gun here.
you should show the British army rifle song. The current one is a good bit of kit and as far as I know the American military use a totally different style of rifle sling
Good sling. Any techniques currently being taught for shooting using the sling for improved stability?
It's another 3 point sling. When I was first in the army I think other countries were still using more conventional slings when it was first issued. I will try and find a link
Seems like this would be more practical on a semi automatic rather than a bolt action
Something similar can be done with the standard sling, no need to a new sling for this. That's just a little bit easier.
Cooper referenced that in his writing, the Bisley-style 2-point, where both ends of the sling are mounted forward. He called it the "CW" sling, after Carlos Widmann who introduced him to it.
Ian did, in the video, refer to the regular "hasty" sling. Downside to it, the tension is pretty equal to both the front swivel and the rear swivel, which doesn't do you as much good for shooting stability as a sling that only has tension to the front.
Same for me IRL. Not the same as a Bisley sling for sure but for field shooting, the 'hasty' sling is usually enough if there wasn't a rest for my rifle, and I do/did use it most times. But still good how a simple idea can try to make shooting easier. I like!
Wow, so there are actually americans who do properly use the phrase "couldn't care less", instead of "could care less". Nice to know.
The "hasty sling" is a compromise for most...
I notice Ian's voice is distinctly lower on this video than how he normally speaks. I wonder if he was OK that day.