Gary Judd Responds to Jane Kelsey on Tikanga Law
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
- Gary Judd responds to Jane Kelsey on tikanga law.
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Our democratically elected Govt. needs to step up a draw a line right through this
If she believed it she should be prepared to engage in a debate.
Anyone that won’t debate their opinion has obviously realised their argument will not stand up in the debate. They have then lost all credibility and not worth the time of day.
Her type prefer to cancel .
Jane seems the standard example of the academic dissociation of reason in favour of ideology. One sees why she is not a KC and never will be. For 43 years she has been an activist and uses that to legitimize her position. Sad to say that she has had decades to negatively influence the students against "law" and in favour of a "new system" - which of course will be polluted by ideology - which is the real objective.
Well said there is nothing more to add, okay just one thing< she is a train wreck of immense proportions as a human being, a real shocker...
Well said.
Jane Kelsey is a left wing activist through and through.Nothing new there.
We read about how tikanga maori operated when Te Rarapaha went to the South Island and blugeoned other tribes to death, including children.
And ate them
@merlenechambers: Please enlighten me on how the Brits were any different in going to other places killing and displacing its inhabitants?
@@user-wt4ie6iu6p I never thought about the brits, now that you mention it, i am sure there are others who know more than me about the brits. I guess i was trying to figure how tikanga Maori can be called upon in law? I can say quite safely that Scott Watsons Mana has been thrashed by the judical system, given there was really, no evidence to suggest he murdered two people in the Marlborough Sounds.
@@user-wt4ie6iu6punfortunately the Brits were obliged to colonize, they didn't want the problem. Shame they didn't just sail away and leave who was here to themselves. imagine the amazing ideal life they would have, fighting off other countries, the French, Portuguese, Chinese. jeez, Maori didn't even have the wheel, no pottery, no metallurgy, not even the bow and arrow and nowhere to go or they'd have gone there decades ago.. The British saved them from extinction, Now all they do is complain and get unending 'final settlements '.
@@merlenechambers575 That's a really hard one to answer I'm afraid. I think there is a place for it, I just don't know how it would play out in courts. However, tikanga plays a huge role when a court might grant the right to use what's known as "Restorative Justice". This allows Maori to deal with their own people using tikanga to bring a person to justice. But with cases involving murder, well that's normally left to the courts themselves...
I imagine that this tikunga thing will wind up something invented and added to as people wish, like half the other stuff going on
So tikanga was here before Maori arrived and was discovered or given to them when they arrived. This was then New Zealands law for approx. 600 years before Europeans arrived.
From their verbal history recalled by Maori and recorded by Europeans, this was a time of savage inter-tribal warfare, slavery and cannibalism.
Perhaps I missed something but I don't see any reason to want tikanga in this society.
Yes, and read Sir Apirana Ngata’s explanation of the Treaty. The underlying reason why tribes wanted to sign it was they wanted the protection given by proper laws - namely English law as enforced by Queen Victoria.
Maori were not in NZ 600 years prior to Europeans, however, other peoples were
@@peterwiles1299Apirana Ngata does not speak for all Maori. Many disagreed with him, especially those of the West Coast. Quite frankly, if he was here today to witness how things have turned out for his beloved Maori he'd be quite disappointed to find that a lot of what he pushed and advocated for never came to fruition despite all the promises made to him. Just like The Maori Party, they do not speak for all Maori, plenty disagree with them as well. Just because we put Maori into a neat little box and label it "The Maori" in no way shape or form does it mean they all sing from the same song sheet. A tribe from the far north put in a room with a tribe from the far south doesn't mean that just because they're "Maori" they are the same in both thought and action. That would be like putting a cow and a fish in the same room and trying to pass them both off as being strawberries. Both live and exist by adhering to differing laws/tikanga. The cow does not tell the fish how to live or by what laws it should follow, neither does the fish tell the cow how to operate under its own laws. Not the greatest of analogies but I'm sure you're intelligent enough to grasp what's being meant here.
@@brucecouperother people like who? What is everyone’s issue with Maori? It’s ridiculous
Also 35 species of mammals and birds into extinction.
The last point is interesting. It seems that whatever Tikanga was before European arrival, it was not universally understood amongst Maori to be the same thing. This would have been early 19th century where tribes were at odds with each other, and no laws were ever written down. Not to mention the limited means of communicating back then.
Not written down so the law changes to any whim .Human nature . Best left as Maori protocol .
It suits maori not to have a written history, whereby they have been able to build a lucrative industry around Tikanga tribal law, not common law, and for some reason academics are tripping over themselves to enshrine tikanga as some sort of gospel.
They can shove it,i will not comply
They will make you comply like they did with Covid.
Te kangi law must be genuine cz no- one ever heard of it except the pharisees who espouse it.
I'm glad I'm edging closer to the end of my life time, rather than only having just been born into it.
The future looks to be quite depressing.
Totally depressing actually
Then use the last of what you have to help your grandchildren or someone else's. We are the majority and when we unite, this is gone.
Understand completely
Funding needs to be cut off for these university types that have such ideas. We the good people of New Zealand do not wish to pay for such absolute nonsense, it only adds to inflation by doing so.
Absolutely no funding for this bullshit and maori fairytales
You eat the loser! Is that right?
Funny
@@user-rn1kk5oo7m my comment was meant a question!
If I intended to be funny it would have been: “Right!” Instead of “Is that right?”
People lIke Jane Kelsey are great at devising protocols to run countries populated by people like Jane Kelsey.
Nothing new.
It is interesting listening to both sides and hearing logic based and agenda based arguments. Thanks Gary Judd.
The blazon arrogance of Kelsey amazes me. She accuses everyone outside her bubble of historic ignorance. She is the ignorant one thinking that they can impose ideological law changes on the majority without discussion and government consultation.
Nailed it
And that is exactly Greens, Labour and Te Parti Maori believe.
Their ideology is perfect and therefor the wish or will of the general public is not relevant and the end justifies the means in implementing the politically correct ideology- this is Marxist thinking
I look forward to having my sentences reduced otherwise my "mana" will be affected...
🙄
😢yea what a joke that was, unbelievable.
I went to Waikato Law school 2000 to 2003. Maori Law and Society was 1st year paper taught by Tainui Law Lecturer who taught the history of TOW as we have known it to be and as Julian Batchelor knows it to be, along with Public Law A & B.
Im without words except expletives!
They also hd Maori only study class before exams.
A friend went to public law B and they narrowed down what to focus on for exam weight 75%one essay 25%. I studied what he was told A-,
BUT public A bc no guidance on topics given study everything I received a C grade.
Maori became full subjects under the Crown and under its laws. Tikanga was not a source of law. Tikanga "law" has a place in history class, but I suspect the intent is to have someone stand up and "But Tikanga requires/states...." When will this happen? When someone needs a loophole via the race they identify as. It'll start as this nice to have course and see, now we're already starting to refer to it as "the original law of the land." We will end with everything going to appeal court. One country, one law for all.
This woman should not be in the job she has got, she sounds like a dictator to me and must go.
Will the Legal System in New Zealand become divided into two sides, Tikanga Law and English Common Law.
If you let it it will become one law, Maori law. Don't let it is the key to health, wealth and happiness.
Must be heaps of money in this shit other wise no one would give a shit
Already marae based justice isn’t there
For anyone to follow any law people need to know what it is yer no can ever say what Tikanga is
Tikanga simply means customs & beliefs, the Treaty Chiefs abandoned the old native ways and were baptised into Tikanga Christianity along with the hapu.
Gary Judd yes indeed
So tikanga can be any thing that some person what to make up and and say this is tikanga law that can not work . So I can say if I was stopped for speeding [say] that I was not speed because tikanga law stated that I was no breaking the law., and fo course you can not look that up.
It's the same deal with the treaty, we will just make shit up to suit our self's
By asking for and signing the treaty Maori agreed to abide by crown law as subjects of the crown, adopting another law is of course a breach of the treaty and in this case a very serious breach, for the crown and its law has given humanity the most stable form of government - ever. Maori and their so called law of course has not. Only a fool would transgress. Clearly this is nothing more than the continuation of the deliberate destabilisation of New Zealand. Do not fall for it.
Agree she is just another loose cannon.
Intellectual discussion going to the extreme. Does the Maori community have any interest or understanding of this tikanga especially considering written language didn't exist when supposedly this philosophy existed. Universities making compulsory course requirements students are not interested in studying. A reason I didn't finish my Engineering degree.
My father got a hiding at school for speaking his language and lost his identity because of it. Maori culture is apart of new zealand and it's about having some understanding, acknowledging and respecting our past. If that how you feel well that a choice you get to make and it doesn't really matter cause it your life.
@@KarlieSmith-pl7gh He new the rule and broke it .
@@stewatparkpark2933 ignorant and arrogance will get you a long way in this country. Good luck to you.
@@KarlieSmith-pl7gh I agree New Zealand has a heritage that should be recognised and respected. My parents came from Holland. They accepted New Zealands culture, as I did growing up. It was an adjustment for sure but logical if moving to a new Country. NZ is a diverse mix of cultures which have made NZ what it is today. I do not believe fixating on a indigenous past where racism is the primary focus benefits our future.
@@KarlieSmith-pl7gh ha. I got hidings / strap and cane when I went to school in the 1960's. Getting a hiding at school is not the unique to Maori. All of us including girls got the strap. But it sounds so dramatic if you isay only Maori got it. how do you think we felt when we got hidings from teachers?
A friend of mine popped in today. She was saying the Tikanga Maori kaupapa was used in the Peter Ellis trial. She went on to say that, when Peter Ellis died, there were a few lawyers still working on his case. Peter Ellis dying kinda put an end to his gravy train. So some judge thought up the brilliant idea that although Peter Ellis was dead, his Mana still had to be upheld. I was instructed to look up Peter Ellis case file, which i will do at some stage. But that was a fleeting look into how Tikanga Maori kaupapa will be incorportated into NZ Law.
The SC in Smith quoted Ellis, and A-G v Ngati Toa (2003): to summarise the conclusions "tikanga was the first law of New Zealand, and it will continue to influence New Zealand’s distinctive common law as appropriate according to the case and to the extent appropriate in the case". The SC did not reason or assert this. It was a summary. The SC did, however, take the circular path to overturning the CA in citing tikanga as the basis for Smith making a tikanga case (novel tort) to the trial court to be heard on merits including tikanga. This is about as circular as saying that because of legal reasons, Smith could take a case, in accordance with law, to a court of law.
There's some very muddled thinking going on.
What?
Nek minit every week the trusty tribunal will allege Tikanga is being breached by the Crown.
Jane Kelsey and Chloe Swarbrick would make a great pair.
It ok to base law of the Bible but not of Tikunga
Tikanga Christianity is what founded our Nation, the Chiefs wanted and needed it to wave their barbaric ways goodbye. You could say the Treaty was a type of Baptism, an adoption into another Tikanga. Heaven forbid that unholy lifestyle to return.
See I told you so 😂😂🤣😘😎🎱😛😛😛
You would loose this debate
I'd be keen to debate Mr Gary Judd on this topic
You would loose this debate
Read the Kohimarama Conference records first, you might change your view.
Allah loves equality so much that his wonderful Palestinian devotees plan to invite delegates from the western Rainbow community to Gaza post conflict.
The aim is ostensibly to share the ideals of Western liberalism. Yay!
To that end, the Palestinians have already rented rooftop venues in the few high rises still standing from which the Rainbow community can communicate its laudable ideals .
Hamas fully expects those westerners who make it to the rooftops will make great spectacles of themselves by hittingthe ground running. The cheering crowds will then finish the celebrations with thunderous applause.
Best of all, the Rainbow delegates won’t need to worry about the flight back home. That detail can be arranged later by the few brave souls remaining in Gaza who have firsthand knowledge of the production of body bags.
Tikanga is the application and interpretation of systems and processes to ensure justice based on social conventions. We no longer have the death penalty or kaitangata=cannibalism. Lawyers no longer have to uphold the divine rights of Kings so ideas evolve with time. What would it mean for NZ if 'tikanga' was an element of our common law? It might be good for Pakeha too?
Sure, but we need some idea of what society would look like under Tikanga. Changing our society and legal system by stealth is disastrous.
Wouldn't it be better to create something new entirely rather than pretend were implementing something that didn't exist but just picking and choosing ideas we like and ignoring the bad parts and calling it a long standing law?
does Tikanga include Utu (eye for an eye)? Good - might mean gangs are killed off
Tikanga means beliefs and customs, the Treaty Chiefs chose Tikanga Christianity
Gee i bet you would all vote Trump if you were in the USA😒
I sure would. Trump 2024 ❤❤❤❤🎉
And there would be nothing wrong with that, snofl....
100%
@@titokarawera25 there would be a lot wrong with that. The USA would no longer be a democracy. It shows that people who follow sean plunkett are not critical thinkers and most likely of low intelligence or education. Sorry but that is the bottom line. Scary that you are able to vote 😒
If you didn't you wont have life be nothing but wars and utter shit happening
Back before 1840 Tikanga law allowed the locals to kill and eat their enemies. Or have they forgotten the constant tribal wars and atrocities against their own.