Not going to lie, happened once or twice by mistake because people parked their characters INSIDE the longboi, so I couldn't see that there were people using the AH.
@@pix3lle375 I hear you. I wind up spending like 20 minutes longer in Oribos because of this. I just can't bring myself to leave. And then there was the one time where it looked like everyone was done, and a rogue came out of nowhere shouting, "Longboi! Longboi! Longboi!" XD
Honestly I really don't care how hard the Thorgast levels are, I just wish it was more tuned. If you can get through 5 floors of mobs you should be able to get the end boss down. I don't need it to be less hard I need it to set a limit before I waste an hour of my life and then get nothing for it. If I go in there and get killed from the first floor boss I would never attempt to struggle to get higher. But blasting through the whole thing just to reach the end and then the boss annihilate me is just, no, that is not good enough.
Yeah but what’s the point in guaranteed success? That’s not what a rogue like is about. You should know when to abandon a run if there has been bad rng.
@@jigglywiggle That is literally the entire point of what I just wrote. If I can easily take down all 5 floors and then get annihilated on the 6th and get away with nothing, that makes the whole thing seem pointless and a waste of time. Not sure what you mean about rogue, I am a death knight.
Not just you, man. I was happy only clearing to level six knowing that I still had a challenge ahead of me. I agree with all of your points of how Torghast should have been fixed.
same, it's not the boss difficulty that was the problem, it was the lack of feedback early in a level to let you know if you were in over your head. That's game design 101, but fixing it properly like Tali suggested would have been too much effort, so they took the lazy route.
I really loved the difficulty of Torghast on Reset day. Layer 7 and 8 felt like a real challenge, which wasn't a bad thing. And I really don't agree with the "but it is integral to getting legendaries", because the last 3 layers grant the same soul ash as the first one. It might add over time, but if you can't do layer 8, you probably aren't in a guild/content that needs that level 235 legendary as soon as possible. You can just go with that 220 or even 210 and be totally fine.
@@grumbledore424 Lets be honest, The lockdown was needed BECAUSE NO ONE WAS OBEYING THE RULES anyways. The people complaining about the tier 4 restrictions are the exact same people who went around having parties
Thank god... finally someone who agrees that the Torghast nerf wasn't the best idea... It blew my mind when I heard about the nerf... I thought: "What the...! Wasn't Torghast MEANT to be hard and fun like a Roguelike???! And why are people HAPPY about the nerfs??!!!". So now instead of a fun new type of content to entertain us, It is just turning into another typical "easy to do busy grind" like the N'Zoth assaults in BFA, that isn't fun and HAS to be done every week. I'm aware that a lot of people are unhappy that Blizz decided to mix the Roguelike genre into our game, but common... Having a Roguelike type mini content is MUCH better than a weekly mandatory boring grind... Person lacking average intelligence: "Grinding is part of MMOs, you should go play another game if you don't like it 😵🥴🤪"... 🙄 Not at all what I'm saying. ☝ Grinding is an essential part of an MMO... BUT you have grinding that is boring and just there for the sake of keeping players busy, and then there is grinding that is fun and rewarding. People who can't tell the difference and defend it are part of the reason why Blizz keeps feeding us quantity content instead of quality content. They had a REALLY fun idea with Torghast being a Roguelike, but now they are chickening out on it and turning it into a boring mandatory grind... I LOVED wiping at challenging parts in Torghast, and having to figure out how to CC the mobs in order to progress. It makes people get better at their classes, and forces them to actually use their brain a little. Now I can just charge through each floor with ease and without thinking too much... NOT FUN.
Hard to make a rogue like fun when the only skill expression is dps checks. Can't really dodge melee attacks or chain casting single targets spells. Add in that only about half the specs in the game have good anima powers and it gets pretty toxic pretty fast.
When I first saw three Brutusaurs blocking the mailbox and iron forge I was mad. But now when I see three of them blocking the mailbox in Orobos, I'm happy. (I'm happy I didn't waste 5 million gold.) Except for that one person on the Brutusaur, who runs off the moment I open the auction house... That guy can burn in the Maw forever!!!
I did layer 8 pre nerv - and i got my ass kicked. I thought - well lets get to that later then. 3 Days Later after nerv: Cleared without a hassle. So i'm kinda with you there Tali
Exactly. I just scrapped through pre nerf floor 7 the whole way till last boss where i got super luck with powers and I was insanely powerful. Funnest run, the whole run I figured i was going to fail. Now layer 8 is deathless with shit subpar powers, just run in circles kiting ignoring mechanics.
Same. It's a little disappointing. If it were my choice, I'd probably have released the wings much slower, so that it doesn't feel like you've beaten Torghast, one of their flagship features they promoted, 4 weeks into a (probably) 2 year expac. Hopefully they add some additional difficulties, but maybe also make it optional (cosmetics, catch up gear, etc).
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions. Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
@@MrRipWiz Honestly, I felt it was a tad too easy since I cleared 8 pre nerf in one go, but then again, I had a rough time at Coldheart 6 when it released as fire mage, so it really depends on the wing or the class you're rolling I guess. As far as I was concerned I wanted Torghast to be diff. solo content like 5 mask visions were (unless you paid to get boosted that is). Guess we'll get that with Twisted Corridors at some point but they should have kept the normal runs the way they were as well. Sadge
I'm with you. I was a little disappointed in the nerf. It felt really good finally figuring out how to use my skills for completing torghast. I felt like it helped me a lot in getting better using my class. I hope they add more tougher layers.
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions. Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
"Sire Denathrius, is that you?" *Revendreth music immediately starts playing* This is either a master stroke in editing, or the best coincidence of the week.
@@jinkurosana5546 only thing I enjoy more is Pandaria soundtrack especially when its raining in VFW and Im sitting on my front porch staring at skybox roll by
The changes to Torghast genuinely makes me sad too. I don’t want to see something with so much potential and fun be nerfed into island expedition status, just so people can get their soul ash a bit faster.
right? it was fine the first week, now its a joke, i literally no lie killed layer 8 boss last week in 5 seconds as my warlock..... it takes 5 seconds to even get my dots out, its way to easy now
I am spamming the 1st layer of Torghast to get 120 Soul Ash each time. I can clear layer 2 but I die at the 6th floor boss at 10% hp remaining 😑 Every, single f___ing time!! And I am a geared fury warrior with a perfect rotation. iLvL 170. I should have no issues. Unbalanced BS like always in early expansions. It isn't nerfing TG. Itis fixing the unbalanced boss:mobs power level.
@@Twitch_Moderator ok first off. Your wrong. Its WAY TO EASY your just bad. Second geared?????? Geared is item level 200 buddy. You should be in 180 minium by now. Your literally using normal dungeon gear lol no wonder its tough. And you def dont have a perfect rotation or spec, the warriors in my guild have cleared layer 8 no issues
@@Twitch_Moderator like actually no disrespect or hurt feelings but its insanely easy so your doing something wrong. You either are bad at your class, have horrible gear, or literally havent touched the maw for torghast upgrades
@@Twitch_Moderator well no, fury is in a bad spot atm even after the"buff" but i cleared both with only a few deaths to spare. is it hard yes? did that make it fun ?hell yeh it did. on the blood dk it was like 10 times easier so the problem is not thorgast but the class ballance. blizz just rather uses the nerf hammer to solve this problem instead of accually fixing the major difrents in class power (Not just dps!)
Taliesin and Evitel, I love your vids and the humor it brings! "How in the flying monkey butts?", totally awesome hearing first thing in the morning! Almost spit out my coffee!
The best long boi moment I've had was there was on person trolling on their long boi and I just /s "may I use your long boi for approximately 2 minutes". The guy trolling goes someone finally asked ran up to me let me use it then proceeded to troll. He now whispers me when he sees me asking if I'd like to use the AH
Imagine me only getting 200+ stuff with vers -.-" Up until now, all that has changed to me is that now junk just drips slightly at sparse intervals instead. On the other hand, tanks must be having a blast kk :D
@@rafaelcalmon2858 I mean I main a holy/ret paladin so even with being half a wheelchair I much prefer this system I think its a vast improvement. It should also be said I'm not super pixel hungry about gear I do like mounts and cosmetic stuff so my current motivator right now is working my way up to the all m+15 mount. I also like playing with my internet friends and guild so the gear just kinda happens while I hang out and do other stuff.
I don't understand why people are complaining that the raid is too hard! Isn't that the whole Idea of a raid, that it be really difficult and take weeks to complete!
I mean... you're saying that sarcastically but what exactly would you prefer - that you didn't need gear to beat the raids? What would be the point of gear then? Are you sad that you can't beat the raid that drops 213 gear while youre still wearing 190 gear?
@@diabolosmoerdeth1909 What they did is fine, restore some challenge to raiding, I'm on a boomer casual guild and we still got to the end of HC. We are certainly finishing the last two bosses next save, I don't see how that is "ToO HaRd".
@@diabolosmoerdeth1909 if you have limited time then normal raiding is for you. If they actually gave you what you want, the game would be shit and over too quickly for the people who actually have time to play.
Agree with you on torghast Tali, I did the whole thing just to end up getting destroyed by the boss at the end. Took a few days of gearing went back and killed it. Much more satisfying in my opinion
Torghast doesn't reward enough Soul Ash at level 8 to warrant making it easier. People forget that there are diminishing returns which now makes no sense since anyone can now do
It's funny, I used to be in Immortalis back in WotLK(I think I left sometime during Cata). I was in fact part of Athanatoi(spelling might be a little off), before it reformed into Immortalis when the previous guild leadership quit. I never manage to catch your streams due to my RL schedule and so it wasn't until this exact moment that it dawned on me that the Immortalis you keep mentioning was the same one I used to be part of hehe. Glad to see the guild is still going I have a great many fond memories and was probably my favouite WoW guild I have ever been a part of!
I am ok with challenging but wasting my time I am not ok with. I had no issue blowing up all the mobs up to the last boss. Then I had no chance to defeat the boss, in essence wasting my time. If they are to making it challenging, make it so from the start so I KNOW I am not ready for it, not have me finding out only by the end of it. That or make it take far, far, far, far less.... It was a major turn off for me. Then again I am just a fealty casual... Loved the tower in legion and did it on a few of my chars.
How can you know if you're not ready for it from the start if you haven't even begun collecting Anima Powers? Those things are meant to empower you to complete the run. Sure, you can get bad luck and be stuck with shitty powers, but if you remove the lose condition then this is basically Warfronts/Islands again - which were boring as hell because you couldn't fail.
Yall suck i soloed it on my lock didnt die once. Yall either dont loot anything or u go in there with 170 il gear so what u expect? I mean i actually like torghast besides its way to easy
@@jakewright1932 Its up to the devs to balance the boss with the mobs. You can't make 1 far harder then the rest, that or at least give SOMETHING for the run up to the boss. Its not free stuff, you invested a lot of time going trough the different levels.
Ill keep it short: nerfing Thorgast seems like a bandaid atm. I did not mind the hardness, however dying to a mathematically impossible end boss after an hour and a half and getting NO Soul Ash is unacceptable. I think the best solution would of been to aquire SOME Soul Ash per floor you clear, and the last boss is a BIG BONUS of Soul Ash. Atleast then, even if you loose to things out of your control, you havn't FULLY wasted hours with NOTHING. But hey, they can always just make it harder/scale with gear! Who the fuck knows!
I think it takes a bit of backend work for a system like that to work. Its totally possible, but its not something to get integrated into the game and tested within a couple weeks time.
Agreed. As a mythic raider, the nerfed version of torhast feels like a joke now. It was a nice Challenge before, not too hard, not too easy and it didnt take too long either (a run being around half an hour). I can understand that it was too hard especially for more casual players though, not only the scaling but also the rng making it really punishing sometimes. Having soul ash drop throughout would make it rewarding for all kinds of players, even if they cant make it through the end. I dont really like that they made it this easy now. As a casual player, you dont need to do layer 8 if you only raid normal or heroic. You dont need to upgrade your legendaries right away, because its just not needed for nhc/hc. I think if people are just not aiming for the hardest content or they just cant do it, then that should be fine. WoW should keep having difficulties for everyone - not nerf everything into the ground because people want everything right away. But thats just my point of view and I know that I represent a minority in this game
33 keys in one week, of which 20 in the 2 dungeons that drop the gear i need. Not a single upgrade. 16 boss kills in raid since release, not a single piece of loot. Fuck this shit blizzard, im out
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions. Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
I actually agree with you on this one, Tali, it was exciting and fun to come up against challenging content in the higher layers of Torgast before the nerf.
I actually agree with you about Torghast. The sense of achievement from struggling but eventually downing the end boss when it was difficult was way more satisfying.
i did layer 8 pre-nerf on one character in a 3 man (tank healer dps) and it was insanely hard. wave of destruction would 1 shot you. we had to cc and coordinate kicks and stuns. but we did complete it. did another character post nerf and rolled through it. i honestly don't know the better strategy for blizz but i know i wouldn't want to decide.
I think the problem with the slower gearing is that Blizz did the "less pieces of loot" part but not the "more impactful loot" part. They did a good job changing the disappointment box into the great value vault but gear is still just "Main stat, secondary 1, secondary 2". Getting a new piece of gear and 3 more int and 10 more haste doesn't feel impactful at all.
I havent been in a raiding guild since early mop but I'm so glad to see raid gear means something again. It's funny to see how many more raid sales there are now but the old school challenge of raiding has me seriously considering getting back into it. It feels oddly good in a frustrating way to be in heroic dungeon gear and be waiting on weekly resets to progress. Definately gives me some alt time, it's nice to play a second character without thinking I'm not doing something on my main.
@@t_k_. Obviously not the same as you. Torghast is the only source of soul ash which is required to make legandaries. And legandaries are needed to raid and push high keys efficiently.
@@staradia5116 Obviously not the same as everyone sane else.* Legendary power is the same regardless of legendary item lvl, and that's where the main power comes from. Whether you like it or not, if you have problems in Torghast - 1-3 general ilvl increase from better leggo won't help you in any content, and if you do extreme content like 15+ in time, latter mythic bosses etc. - you won't have problems in Torghast. (I'm not the best player myself, but I can say tanking 12-13s in time with two 190 leggos for different situations is absolutely doable, and leggo lvl is not the problem, I know I just need to git gud to push further.) Furthermore, Torghast wasn't actually hard before, medium at worst for some classes. I have solo rogue experience and my mate was soloing on mage and spriest. Now it is mind-numbing for everyone. But it seems like a lot of people here and on reddit are secretly Limit-level raiders, and are ordered to craft max leggo right now while held at gunpoint. Anyway, cheers.
My three best options were shoulders while I'm already wearing my legendary shoulders. So it ended up being my fourth best option which was a minor upgrade. Great first week.
I thought there would be an option where you could either do layer 8 to cap soul ash or you coud do multiple lower layers to cap it. Like you could do in visions, when you could enter multiple times for progress instead of having to do all 4 wings. I was surprised it was not like that. I think it would be the best way to implement it so we could have the people wanting a challenge to just go for it or grind lower layers until they have the gear for 8
I cleared both Torghast layer 8s before the nerf, it was EXTREMELY clear that they were meant for more ilvl required. I'm slightly sad that blizzard gave in with how much they nerfed it. They needed to tweak a lot of little things (like the caster mobs immediately casting again even after interrupt), but if I could do it as a 185 ret paladin then anyone should be able to do it at 220. Fully agree with you there. But I guess in this case it's nice that I can do it on my terribly geared shaman as well.
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions. Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
I agree with you Tali. I was able to solo through L6 pre nerf without an issue at ~180 ilvl, took some thinking on the last boss, but did it. I strolled into L7 after nerf and completely destroyed it, I expect L8 tonight will not be hard either. Where is my progression after this week? In a month this will turn into ChoreGhast.
The issue in my mind with Torghast came from the fact that at i190+185 at the beginning of the week, a layer 7 boss was simply unkillable for the run I had with a friend of mine despite using every tool in my kit (and he using every tool in his) to fullest effect just because of incoming damage from auto attacks and uninterruptable mechanics, or those that occurred when our interrupts/stuns were down/diminishing returned. And this is on paladin, as retribution. One of the 'good' Torghast specs before all the nerfs happened (and probably still good, just... slightly less), tanking for a subtlety rogue (maybe not very survivable, but the damage gets big) with a fairly 'power gamer' level of understanding of which anima powers are 'the good ones.' The boss wasn't even making it to 40%. Our DPS was high relative to a lot of the solo runs I'd been doing for funsies. That's not the sort of thing that just gets better with gear. Certainly not when incoming damage tends not to be primarily physical, and the increase in my health pool doesn't -really- make a difference against something that was reaching 1shot status by stack 6 of angeryboy power. And there's only so much room to optimize two of the most braindead classes in the game (ha ha combo point go up, combo point go down, press survive button to not die). I didn't push +23 or higher in BfA but I still had my repertoire of +15s for Keystone Master. I know how to DPS, how to interrupt, how to prioritize survival. If, maybe, we'd been rewarded with a Layer 6 reward for reaching the end of Layer 7 and being unable to complete it (as layer 6 HAD to have been cleared by the both of us to even be there in the first place and we had done literally all of the legwork to be within arm's reach of the end), I wouldn't have felt so immediately and thoroughly turned off by the notion of the hour we'd spent playing smart and careful to get to floor 6. Instead we were given the game telling us "this is insufficient" with a flaw in design that reeked of 'well the numbers guy said these numbers are good for this thing but we haven't actually tested it against players.' Especially since so many of the changes to Torghast happened in the interim between delay announcement and release of Shadowlands. Maybe the content isn't properly balanced around 2 DPS compositions. I did, after all, run layer 7 later the same day and clear by myself, but it was still only made possible by the fact that Ret paladin has three 'I don't lose now' buttons. Or maybe I'm a substantially worse player than I'm giving myself credit for. Or gear matters vaguely more than I'm chalking it up to. But when all of those ugly facets combine in a way where -auto attack damage- is hitting me for more than half my HP at a time before 10 stacks on a boss with over 40% of its HP to go, I'm not exactly invested in trying to 'beat the system' on this one. There's nothing to engage with. So I'm glad, at least, that some things got batted down with nerfs. Maybe they'll release layers 9 and 10 early and surprise us to keep the players who wanted something hard going. Plainly the UI allows for more.
For me, the thing that limits me upgrading/making my next legendary is gold for the base piece/mats to make it. So yeah, I haven't done levels 7-8 anyway because I can't use that soul ash right now anyway. I wouldn't have minded it staying hard and just being something one has to do once one has better gear etc. Even if that means waiting to upgrade/make your legendary.
@@maya6090 idk why they nerfed it i was running 7s with like 183 gear pre nerf. Kinda sad about it really. Didn't get a chance to try out pre nerf 8. Super excited about endless corridors though.
I have so much ash... I've never seen a callous hide drop and already blew all my money getting leather working to 100. Gunna focus on the farming this week. I only need like 100 of something I've never seen. Shouldn't be too bad right
The excitement about the chaotic state of the raid speaks volumes man. Keep up the good work, and more importantly, keep on enjoying the game and the great things you do for us
I am with you on Torghast. The time I really enjoyed it was when it really felt like endlevel content. I hope your brother recovers and your family is safe. Happy holidays!
For me at lest part of the problem with Torghast is how random it is. How many anima powers do you get? Do you get good options with those powers? How much phantasma do you get? What is offered on the vendors? Which boss do you get? On top of them not doin a good job of explaining what difficulty to expect at what level could make runs very frustrating.
Gonna be honest, other than to do the holiday stuff, my main hasn't left Shadowlands zones. Day/night cycles (did you notice there are NO day/night cycles in SL zones? Not counting Maldraxxus with its long days and very short nights) and non glowy skeletons took me a while to get used to.
The issues with Thorgast has nothing to do with gear... its all about the mechanics in the instance and what tools your class have. Thorgast has highlighted which classes are way too overpowered at soloing content and which are weak at soloing content.
Not everyone - on our server it's been called Snoreghast. And you're assuming the nerf is the final version of Torghast... when really it's the final version... for now.
Oh so when I complain that the Maw is too hard and there's not enough loot I'm just not playing right but if raiders complain the raid is too hard and there's not enough loot it's all fine
yup, because The Maw is only going to get easier as your stats inflate, if it get nerfed then it will be no challenge when you're walking around in 220-235 gear, and this is just the beginning of the expansion.
Well maw is stupid easy. Every daily is soloable even the suggested 3-5 player ones. So u must suck. The loots fine the crafting mats drop more like cloth and u get torghast upgrades, maw upgrades, profession recipes and sockets for gear
I personally try and hide somewhere in Oribos if I plan on using my Brutosaur. Not because I want to keep it hidden so nobody uses it, but because I am only using to search for something specific which won't take a real long time and I don't want someone getting mad because I dismounted it while they are still using it.
I dislike the nerf of Torghast. It feels like when you're in a game and it pity despawns an enemy or automatically puts you on an easier difficulty because it thinks you need some help. Screw that honestly. I liked the challenge.
I finished lvl 8 with ilvl 165. But I think it has a built-in handicap. There are definitely *more* buffs (and not bigger, but there is just more of em) on higher lvl. I am not sure if the number of buffs increases as if the ilvl is lower though. A natural "nerf" would be to add higher lvls later on with the last lvl always giving the same amount of ash but with earlier lvls giving even more ash. This would be an obvious catch up, too. And it would give players who played the whole time more leggos to experiment with.
raid is not too hard, it is supposed to be difficult and stop crying about no loot when you spent last expansion crying about too much loot, the game is excellent at the moment with room to improve stop going back and forth with your complaints pathetic boomers
I finished both torghast 8 pre nerf this week and it was really tough, but we did it as a team of 3 and the feeling after was the feeling in wow I chase where the finish is down to the wire with everyone's cool downs used, all lives used, pots, everything. But we did it! Now it's just a grind....
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions. Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
100% agree. Locking the Torghast lvls behind ilvl requirements would've solved a lot of the headaches. Still needed to be made shorter/quicker, but I know it would've helped me not bite off more than I could handle and would've added more progression.
I find it a bit sad that the base difficulty was so heavily nerfed, however the extra drops and upgrade boosts from the anima powers were so much more fun once it came out. Yesterday I ran as a night fae cat druid in healing gear and just ended up deleting the final boss on the 4th level difficulty, so it is great fun :D
i completed layer 8 as a resto druid with my hunter and warlock friend, 2 pets for aggro. Was really good fun. Didn't experience 7 and 8 before the nurf and wish i had. i hope they add more layers and more reasons to go there. Maybe loot and pets + mount drops. Weekly quests from oribos with rep rewards or even quests from Ve'nari to complete certain layers. Cant wait to see what they have planned! PS WoW is also keeping me sane in this Lockdown. Tier 3 here in the north west, sorry about whats happening in London!! Hope you guys have a great xmas with all your food :)
You may not see this among the myriad of other comments ,but no matter how shitty of a day I'm having ,your videos ALWAYS brighten them and make me burst out in laughter. Every time I see a notification that you have a new video, it puts a smile on my face. Thank you for your content !
I have to correct you there Taliesin, Torghast was not about gear and it wont be either anytime soon, its about the anima powers , I've spent 8 hours in torghast the first night of the "buffs" and it was a nightmare, BDK 197 ilvl on layer 8 , the problem came when you hit a tower sentinel + a deathspeaker that reduces your haste by 25 % and you end up with -6% haste that blocks your rune regeneration to 10 second for a rune -ish then you combine that with an imune to cc since all you got is health and utility anima powers well good luck killing that, that is not overtuned its just a bad combination of mobs, at certain points after i dont know 7 attempts 1 h + each i realised im not going to get any dmg anima powers playing as tank , so yeah some classes were completely destroyed by the passive abilitys of certain mobs that had to be fixed, there is a difference between chalenging and blocking out some classes of the content
Totally agree on the Torghast thing Taliesin, Endless Corridors and self-nerfs (taking off a piece of gear) is on my 'will do' list when I'm not doing 4 raid nights a week trying to get as much done as possible. (Normal on wednesday, normal catch-up on sunday because Draenor is still lousy with lag issues on wednesdays, heroic farm/progression thursday, progression monday.) Thank god for Christmas break!!
Your not joking Tali, thanks to Bolvar being a Scrooge for Christmas you had to do a mission table to get your Rank 4 this week. . Some of the bosses and some caster floor bosses were legitimately overturned if you were solo or were too spec specific. I do kind of agree they could have just started with the boss nerfs and giving more anima powers. Also for the love of god just give us a dungeon journal of the bosses.
I agree with you about Torghast. I love that I can't do higher levels with my sibling because we aren't a high enough ilvl. There's an excitement to strive for better gear to be able to come back and beat it together while having fun. It's the one thing that excites me about this game tbh.
This week it felt the tower was unnerfed a bit, or I got the worst luck possible in the new wing. By the end I had gotten 34 Anima Powers....30 of them being common, the other 4 being rare. On floor 6 I had 900 phantasma to spend and the broker literally just had 2 shitty powers for sale when he usually has 2 pages worth.
I'll be straight with you: I haven't seen Orgrimmar since SL released.
Where do you buy your enchants and potions? Or is this an Alliance joker.
@@S1kTh66 Longbois in Oribos
There is an Auction House in Oribos if you are an engineer.
@@S1kTh66 simply have an alt parked in Thunder Bluff and mail them over. No orgrimmar for me 🐮 🐄
SAME
and there is special place in hell for those ppl who move their longboi just a bit when they see you using his AH
Or the ones that eject the auction house npc and go afk
I feel bad when I'm done in Oribos and want to leave but there's 4 people around the longboi D:
Not going to lie, happened once or twice by mistake because people parked their characters INSIDE the longboi, so I couldn't see that there were people using the AH.
@@pix3lle375 I hear you. I wind up spending like 20 minutes longer in Oribos because of this. I just can't bring myself to leave. And then there was the one time where it looked like everyone was done, and a rogue came out of nowhere shouting, "Longboi! Longboi! Longboi!" XD
FUCK yes there is!!!
You both are more than welcome to come over to us, in Umbra Immortalis 😉
For the Horde!!
It's the best guild
The first 2 guilds that named themselves immortalis was funny but you people are just sad. Gj on progression tho
@@sergioramirez978 Why are we sad?
I’m making a guild named Immorphallus. Who wants to join?
Whenever I see pots in the Maw, I always try to break them :-|
Me too, give me a Torghast power in the Maw
I know that feel bro
I can't help myself, and I always end up so frustrated when I can't xD
Same LuL D3 vibzz
been doing that since LoD Expansion in Diablo :D EVERYWHERE ....
Taliesin: *Talking extensively about how his 188 gear is shitty and terrible*
Me in 152 gear: *holding back tears* y-yeah... sure...
Go PvP, even if you lose, your ilvl will be close to 183 in just a few evenings. :)
@@Unahim Arena or Bg?
You aren’t even trying
Exactly. you need at least170 to do lfr! Struggling with my 163 hunter ☹
Honestly I really don't care how hard the Thorgast levels are, I just wish it was more tuned. If you can get through 5 floors of mobs you should be able to get the end boss down. I don't need it to be less hard I need it to set a limit before I waste an hour of my life and then get nothing for it. If I go in there and get killed from the first floor boss I would never attempt to struggle to get higher. But blasting through the whole thing just to reach the end and then the boss annihilate me is just, no, that is not good enough.
Yeah but what’s the point in guaranteed success? That’s not what a rogue like is about. You should know when to abandon a run if there has been bad rng.
And unlock upgrades from the maw, annnnnd gear up through mythics
@@jigglywiggle That is literally the entire point of what I just wrote. If I can easily take down all 5 floors and then get annihilated on the 6th and get away with nothing, that makes the whole thing seem pointless and a waste of time.
Not sure what you mean about rogue, I am a death knight.
@@anjaemme3218 I meant roguelike which is the game genre
@@jigglywiggle Neat.
Not just you, man. I was happy only clearing to level six knowing that I still had a challenge ahead of me. I agree with all of your points of how Torghast should have been fixed.
same, it's not the boss difficulty that was the problem, it was the lack of feedback early in a level to let you know if you were in over your head. That's game design 101, but fixing it properly like Tali suggested would have been too much effort, so they took the lazy route.
I really loved the difficulty of Torghast on Reset day. Layer 7 and 8 felt like a real challenge, which wasn't a bad thing. And I really don't agree with the "but it is integral to getting legendaries", because the last 3 layers grant the same soul ash as the first one. It might add over time, but if you can't do layer 8, you probably aren't in a guild/content that needs that level 235 legendary as soon as possible. You can just go with that 220 or even 210 and be totally fine.
Torghast should be hard, but preferably quick and snappy rather than the HP slog it was.
one solution would be 2 torghast modes, one tgat is harder and gives more resources/ash and one that us beatable with lower IL and gives bit less.
That intro though, Evitel has gone full Link on us smashing pots for loot.
more like full DIABLO 3 looking for a speed boost!
"This is why we're not allowed back in the British Museum". Awwwww
Didn't they.....**MEET** because they were both working at a Brittish museum?!?
I lost it at that line, gold.
I thought it was because of their government's tyrannical and ineffectual lockdowns.
yep that n LOCKDOWN...feel like breaking a few pots myself :(
@@grumbledore424 Lets be honest, The lockdown was needed BECAUSE NO ONE WAS OBEYING THE RULES anyways.
The people complaining about the tier 4 restrictions are the exact same people who went around having parties
Thank god... finally someone who agrees that the Torghast nerf wasn't the best idea... It blew my mind when I heard about the nerf...
I thought: "What the...! Wasn't Torghast MEANT to be hard and fun like a Roguelike???! And why are people HAPPY about the nerfs??!!!".
So now instead of a fun new type of content to entertain us, It is just turning into another typical "easy to do busy grind" like the N'Zoth assaults in BFA, that isn't fun and HAS to be done every week. I'm aware that a lot of people are unhappy that Blizz decided to mix the Roguelike genre into our game, but common... Having a Roguelike type mini content is MUCH better than a weekly mandatory boring grind...
Person lacking average intelligence: "Grinding is part of MMOs, you should go play another game if you don't like it 😵🥴🤪"... 🙄
Not at all what I'm saying. ☝
Grinding is an essential part of an MMO... BUT you have grinding that is boring and just there for the sake of keeping players busy, and then there is grinding that is fun and rewarding. People who can't tell the difference and defend it are part of the reason why Blizz keeps feeding us quantity content instead of quality content.
They had a REALLY fun idea with Torghast being a Roguelike, but now they are chickening out on it and turning it into a boring mandatory grind... I LOVED wiping at challenging parts in Torghast, and having to figure out how to CC the mobs in order to progress. It makes people get better at their classes, and forces them to actually use their brain a little. Now I can just charge through each floor with ease and without thinking too much... NOT FUN.
Thanks for the comment, saved me a lot of typing 😂
Hard to make a rogue like fun when the only skill expression is dps checks. Can't really dodge melee attacks or chain casting single targets spells. Add in that only about half the specs in the game have good anima powers and it gets pretty toxic pretty fast.
You have obviously never tried to run Torghast on a rogue.
@@KoalaTeaTime96 impossibly frustrating, I've even picked up another possible main just due to the BS of rogue in Torghast.
Gating early legendaries mats behind a Rogue-like is the problem.
"Sire Denathrius is that you?" had me fuckin dying
Needs to be a recurring bit now FOR SURE.
When I first saw three Brutusaurs blocking the mailbox and iron forge I was mad. But now when I see three of them blocking the mailbox in Orobos, I'm happy. (I'm happy I didn't waste 5 million gold.) Except for that one person on the Brutusaur, who runs off the moment I open the auction house... That guy can burn in the Maw forever!!!
I feel Evi's pain from the intro, when I'm running around outside in the Maw, I get twitchy when around large groups of indestructible pots
The indestructible pots in the maw are proof of the Jailor's insidiousness.
What's even more confusing is I got a daily quest yesterday that let me destroy some pots, but not other pots right next to them.
@@fraidnaught9067 that's just cruel
Do you do the starring at a pile of pots with a small army around them and debate if it is worth it/convince yourself it 100% is bit ?
Just change your guild name to "Immortaliesin" and that'll give you enough bonus points to win the race.
I still don't know how Evitel's hunter is casting Mind Sear.
I literally spit out my water when you said that's what they said about WW1. That was an amazing line
I did layer 8 pre nerv - and i got my ass kicked. I thought - well lets get to that later then.
3 Days Later after nerv:
Cleared without a hassle. So i'm kinda with you there Tali
Exactly. I just scrapped through pre nerf floor 7 the whole way till last boss where i got super luck with powers and I was insanely powerful. Funnest run, the whole run I figured i was going to fail. Now layer 8 is deathless with shit subpar powers, just run in circles kiting ignoring mechanics.
Same. It's a little disappointing.
If it were my choice, I'd probably have released the wings much slower, so that it doesn't feel like you've beaten Torghast, one of their flagship features they promoted, 4 weeks into a (probably) 2 year expac. Hopefully they add some additional difficulties, but maybe also make it optional (cosmetics, catch up gear, etc).
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions.
Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
Still fucking sucks for rouges
@@MrRipWiz Honestly, I felt it was a tad too easy since I cleared 8 pre nerf in one go, but then again, I had a rough time at Coldheart 6 when it released as fire mage, so it really depends on the wing or the class you're rolling I guess. As far as I was concerned I wanted Torghast to be diff. solo content like 5 mask visions were (unless you paid to get boosted that is). Guess we'll get that with Twisted Corridors at some point but they should have kept the normal runs the way they were as well. Sadge
I'm with you. I was a little disappointed in the nerf. It felt really good finally figuring out how to use my skills for completing torghast. I felt like it helped me a lot in getting better using my class. I hope they add more tougher layers.
Big agree
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions.
Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
Yes agree had the same feeling of achievement
"Sire Denathrius, is that you?"
*Revendreth music immediately starts playing*
This is either a master stroke in editing, or the best coincidence of the week.
I love to sit in Sinfall and listen to the grand music..
@@ZakhadWOW I drown in Sinfall's soundtrack and my guildies are already laughing at me because it's the only thing I hum now.
@@jinkurosana5546 only thing I enjoy more is Pandaria soundtrack especially when its raining in VFW and Im sitting on my front porch staring at skybox roll by
@@ZakhadWOW it's a pretty cool aesthetic to listen as well
The Denathrius lines....I can't... Kinky-sounding boss lines hold a special place on my lulz-meter.
The changes to Torghast genuinely makes me sad too. I don’t want to see something with so much potential and fun be nerfed into island expedition status, just so people can get their soul ash a bit faster.
right? it was fine the first week, now its a joke, i literally no lie killed layer 8 boss last week in 5 seconds as my warlock..... it takes 5 seconds to even get my dots out, its way to easy now
I am spamming the 1st layer of Torghast to get 120 Soul Ash each time. I can clear layer 2 but I die at the 6th floor boss at 10% hp remaining 😑 Every, single f___ing time!! And I am a geared fury warrior with a perfect rotation. iLvL 170. I should have no issues. Unbalanced BS like always in early expansions.
It isn't nerfing TG. Itis fixing the unbalanced boss:mobs power level.
@@Twitch_Moderator ok first off. Your wrong. Its WAY TO EASY your just bad. Second geared?????? Geared is item level 200 buddy. You should be in 180 minium by now. Your literally using normal dungeon gear lol no wonder its tough. And you def dont have a perfect rotation or spec, the warriors in my guild have cleared layer 8 no issues
@@Twitch_Moderator like actually no disrespect or hurt feelings but its insanely easy so your doing something wrong. You either are bad at your class, have horrible gear, or literally havent touched the maw for torghast upgrades
@@Twitch_Moderator well no, fury is in a bad spot atm even after the"buff" but i cleared both with only a few deaths to spare. is it hard yes? did that make it fun ?hell yeh it did. on the blood dk it was like 10 times easier so the problem is not thorgast but the class ballance. blizz just rather uses the nerf hammer to solve this problem instead of accually fixing the major difrents in class power (Not just dps!)
Taliesin and Evitel, I love your vids and the humor it brings! "How in the flying monkey butts?", totally awesome hearing first thing in the morning! Almost spit out my coffee!
My favorite part about Torghast as a warlock is all of the powers it throws at me for corruption, when I'm Destro or Demo
My windwalker monks most potent ability is to stand like an idiot healing myself.
i can admit, the urge to destroy pots everywhere is very strong
Does this video drop loot at the end? Cause I need some...
Ion-clause didn't bring us loot this year
im literally watching this while selling flasks on my longboi in oribos next to the mailbox LOL
I hope your brother recovers from the ‘Blood Plague’.
The best long boi moment I've had was there was on person trolling on their long boi and I just /s "may I use your long boi for approximately 2 minutes". The guy trolling goes someone finally asked ran up to me let me use it then proceeded to troll. He now whispers me when he sees me asking if I'd like to use the AH
And then everyone clapped
From the 15-20 mythic+ dungeons that I've done, I have yet to receive a piece of gear. Thanks blizzard
Same + 3 clear hc ids without a single item
people tend to forget about the mecha-gnome auctioneer in oribos lol
Also, theres a zelda joke to be made about the pots...
Heyaaaaaa
I vastly prefer loot like this instead of being showered with junk that's useless
Imagine me only getting 200+ stuff with vers -.-"
Up until now, all that has changed to me is that now junk just drips slightly at sparse intervals instead.
On the other hand, tanks must be having a blast kk :D
@@rafaelcalmon2858 I mean I main a holy/ret paladin so even with being half a wheelchair I much prefer this system I think its a vast improvement. It should also be said I'm not super pixel hungry about gear I do like mounts and cosmetic stuff so my current motivator right now is working my way up to the all m+15 mount. I also like playing with my internet friends and guild so the gear just kinda happens while I hang out and do other stuff.
The Raid Isn't Too Hard..."you just need more gear" quote from game dev
I don't understand why people are complaining that the raid is too hard! Isn't that the whole Idea of a raid, that it be really difficult and take weeks to complete!
I mean... you're saying that sarcastically but what exactly would you prefer - that you didn't need gear to beat the raids? What would be the point of gear then? Are you sad that you can't beat the raid that drops 213 gear while youre still wearing 190 gear?
@@diabolosmoerdeth1909 What they did is fine, restore some challenge to raiding, I'm on a boomer casual guild and we still got to the end of HC. We are certainly finishing the last two bosses next save, I don't see how that is "ToO HaRd".
@@diabolosmoerdeth1909 if you have limited time then normal raiding is for you. If they actually gave you what you want, the game would be shit and over too quickly for the people who actually have time to play.
I pugged every boss no discord. Raids fine yall suck
FYI - there are two mailboxes in Oribos. The second one doesn’t always show on the mini map. It’s on the opposite side of the inn.
Agree with you on torghast Tali, I did the whole thing just to end up getting destroyed by the boss at the end. Took a few days of gearing went back and killed it. Much more satisfying in my opinion
Torghast doesn't reward enough to warrant it being any more difficult.
Torghast doesn't reward enough Soul Ash at level 8 to warrant making it easier. People forget that there are diminishing returns which now makes no sense since anyone can now do
@@robertthompson1530 Really we should only get 35 anima after completing a floor of torghast to really get that sense of pride and accomplishment.
Or I want it to be difficult because I want challenging content?
Players : raid too hard !!
Devs : no problem we placed a repair at entrance 😁
It's funny, I used to be in Immortalis back in WotLK(I think I left sometime during Cata). I was in fact part of Athanatoi(spelling might be a little off), before it reformed into Immortalis when the previous guild leadership quit. I never manage to catch your streams due to my RL schedule and so it wasn't until this exact moment that it dawned on me that the Immortalis you keep mentioning was the same one I used to be part of hehe. Glad to see the guild is still going I have a great many fond memories and was probably my favouite WoW guild I have ever been a part of!
I am ok with challenging but wasting my time I am not ok with. I had no issue blowing up all the mobs up to the last boss. Then I had no chance to defeat the boss, in essence wasting my time. If they are to making it challenging, make it so from the start so I KNOW I am not ready for it, not have me finding out only by the end of it. That or make it take far, far, far, far less.... It was a major turn off for me. Then again I am just a fealty casual... Loved the tower in legion and did it on a few of my chars.
I feel that last boss waste like wtf.
How can you know if you're not ready for it from the start if you haven't even begun collecting Anima Powers? Those things are meant to empower you to complete the run. Sure, you can get bad luck and be stuck with shitty powers, but if you remove the lose condition then this is basically Warfronts/Islands again - which were boring as hell because you couldn't fail.
Yall suck i soloed it on my lock didnt die once. Yall either dont loot anything or u go in there with 170 il gear so what u expect? I mean i actually like torghast besides its way to easy
@@jakewright1932 Its up to the devs to balance the boss with the mobs. You can't make 1 far harder then the rest, that or at least give SOMETHING for the run up to the boss. Its not free stuff, you invested a lot of time going trough the different levels.
The joy in this video is just delightful! Have a lovely Christmas! ❤️
Ill keep it short: nerfing Thorgast seems like a bandaid atm. I did not mind the hardness, however dying to a mathematically impossible end boss after an hour and a half and getting NO Soul Ash is unacceptable.
I think the best solution would of been to aquire SOME Soul Ash per floor you clear, and the last boss is a BIG BONUS of Soul Ash. Atleast then, even if you loose to things out of your control, you havn't FULLY wasted hours with NOTHING. But hey, they can always just make it harder/scale with gear! Who the fuck knows!
I think it takes a bit of backend work for a system like that to work. Its totally possible, but its not something to get integrated into the game and tested within a couple weeks time.
Agreed. As a mythic raider, the nerfed version of torhast feels like a joke now. It was a nice Challenge before, not too hard, not too easy and it didnt take too long either (a run being around half an hour).
I can understand that it was too hard especially for more casual players though, not only the scaling but also the rng making it really punishing sometimes. Having soul ash drop throughout would make it rewarding for all kinds of players, even if they cant make it through the end.
I dont really like that they made it this easy now. As a casual player, you dont need to do layer 8 if you only raid normal or heroic. You dont need to upgrade your legendaries right away, because its just not needed for nhc/hc. I think if people are just not aiming for the hardest content or they just cant do it, then that should be fine. WoW should keep having difficulties for everyone - not nerf everything into the ground because people want everything right away. But thats just my point of view and I know that I represent a minority in this game
Remember the old days when raids were actually hard and no one complained about an actual challenge to the game?
I'm an engineer. I don't even need to search for a long boi
Good old dancing robo gnom.
33 keys in one week, of which 20 in the 2 dungeons that drop the gear i need. Not a single upgrade.
16 boss kills in raid since release, not a single piece of loot.
Fuck this shit blizzard, im out
Same 30+ m+ 1 item i meeded for of spec and 3 hc clear ids not a single item
Everyone who afks on a Longboi in Oribos should be first in line to get their vaccine
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions.
Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
I genuinely expected the opening to end with: "Mythic plus pug tanks."
I actually agree with you on this one, Tali, it was exciting and fun to come up against challenging content in the higher layers of Torgast before the nerf.
I actually agree with you about Torghast. The sense of achievement from struggling but eventually downing the end boss when it was difficult was way more satisfying.
i did layer 8 pre-nerf on one character in a 3 man (tank healer dps) and it was insanely hard. wave of destruction would 1 shot you. we had to cc and coordinate kicks and stuns. but we did complete it. did another character post nerf and rolled through it.
i honestly don't know the better strategy for blizz but i know i wouldn't want to decide.
*stares in health care worker* but you’re right the afk long boys does make it better 😂
I think the problem with the slower gearing is that Blizz did the "less pieces of loot" part but not the "more impactful loot" part. They did a good job changing the disappointment box into the great value vault but gear is still just "Main stat, secondary 1, secondary 2". Getting a new piece of gear and 3 more int and 10 more haste doesn't feel impactful at all.
Can’t beat the raid the first time people play it so they need to make it easier. Perfect example of why this game always sucks late expansion.
I havent been in a raiding guild since early mop but I'm so glad to see raid gear means something again. It's funny to see how many more raid sales there are now but the old school challenge of raiding has me seriously considering getting back into it. It feels oddly good in a frustrating way to be in heroic dungeon gear and be waiting on weekly resets to progress. Definately gives me some alt time, it's nice to play a second character without thinking I'm not doing something on my main.
Well, old Torghst was just an timegate in disguise. New Torghst is the best. Smh
There is a difference between hard content for cosmetic bragging pieces versus weekly mandatory currency rewards.
Mandatory? Do you play the same Wow as we all do?
@@t_k_. Obviously not the same as you. Torghast is the only source of soul ash which is required to make legandaries. And legandaries are needed to raid and push high keys efficiently.
@@staradia5116 Obviously not the same as everyone sane else.* Legendary power is the same regardless of legendary item lvl, and that's where the main power comes from. Whether you like it or not, if you have problems in Torghast - 1-3 general ilvl increase from better leggo won't help you in any content, and if you do extreme content like 15+ in time, latter mythic bosses etc. - you won't have problems in Torghast. (I'm not the best player myself, but I can say tanking 12-13s in time with two 190 leggos for different situations is absolutely doable, and leggo lvl is not the problem, I know I just need to git gud to push further.) Furthermore, Torghast wasn't actually hard before, medium at worst for some classes. I have solo rogue experience and my mate was soloing on mage and spriest. Now it is mind-numbing for everyone. But it seems like a lot of people here and on reddit are secretly Limit-level raiders, and are ordered to craft max leggo right now while held at gunpoint. Anyway, cheers.
But there's more than 1 mailbox in oribos....
Just for the record, there are TWO mailboxes in Oribos. Go through the inn towards the outside of the ring, and there’s another one out there.
"The great vault let's you pick the slot you want and the stat combinations you want"... tell that to my 5 rings with no crit lol xD
My three best options were shoulders while I'm already wearing my legendary shoulders. So it ended up being my fourth best option which was a minor upgrade. Great first week.
@@steveschweichler7023 3 boots, 2 necklaces out of 6.
I thought there would be an option where you could either do layer 8 to cap soul ash or you coud do multiple lower layers to cap it. Like you could do in visions, when you could enter multiple times for progress instead of having to do all 4 wings. I was surprised it was not like that. I think it would be the best way to implement it so we could have the people wanting a challenge to just go for it or grind lower layers until they have the gear for 8
I cleared both Torghast layer 8s before the nerf, it was EXTREMELY clear that they were meant for more ilvl required. I'm slightly sad that blizzard gave in with how much they nerfed it. They needed to tweak a lot of little things (like the caster mobs immediately casting again even after interrupt), but if I could do it as a 185 ret paladin then anyone should be able to do it at 220.
Fully agree with you there. But I guess in this case it's nice that I can do it on my terribly geared shaman as well.
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions.
Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
I agree with you Tali. I was able to solo through L6 pre nerf without an issue at ~180 ilvl, took some thinking on the last boss, but did it. I strolled into L7 after nerf and completely destroyed it, I expect L8 tonight will not be hard either. Where is my progression after this week? In a month this will turn into ChoreGhast.
OMG, I see decorative pots all over the Maw and I want to smash them in itty bits :)
The issue in my mind with Torghast came from the fact that at i190+185 at the beginning of the week, a layer 7 boss was simply unkillable for the run I had with a friend of mine despite using every tool in my kit (and he using every tool in his) to fullest effect just because of incoming damage from auto attacks and uninterruptable mechanics, or those that occurred when our interrupts/stuns were down/diminishing returned. And this is on paladin, as retribution. One of the 'good' Torghast specs before all the nerfs happened (and probably still good, just... slightly less), tanking for a subtlety rogue (maybe not very survivable, but the damage gets big) with a fairly 'power gamer' level of understanding of which anima powers are 'the good ones.' The boss wasn't even making it to 40%. Our DPS was high relative to a lot of the solo runs I'd been doing for funsies.
That's not the sort of thing that just gets better with gear. Certainly not when incoming damage tends not to be primarily physical, and the increase in my health pool doesn't -really- make a difference against something that was reaching 1shot status by stack 6 of angeryboy power. And there's only so much room to optimize two of the most braindead classes in the game (ha ha combo point go up, combo point go down, press survive button to not die). I didn't push +23 or higher in BfA but I still had my repertoire of +15s for Keystone Master. I know how to DPS, how to interrupt, how to prioritize survival.
If, maybe, we'd been rewarded with a Layer 6 reward for reaching the end of Layer 7 and being unable to complete it (as layer 6 HAD to have been cleared by the both of us to even be there in the first place and we had done literally all of the legwork to be within arm's reach of the end), I wouldn't have felt so immediately and thoroughly turned off by the notion of the hour we'd spent playing smart and careful to get to floor 6. Instead we were given the game telling us "this is insufficient" with a flaw in design that reeked of 'well the numbers guy said these numbers are good for this thing but we haven't actually tested it against players.' Especially since so many of the changes to Torghast happened in the interim between delay announcement and release of Shadowlands.
Maybe the content isn't properly balanced around 2 DPS compositions. I did, after all, run layer 7 later the same day and clear by myself, but it was still only made possible by the fact that Ret paladin has three 'I don't lose now' buttons. Or maybe I'm a substantially worse player than I'm giving myself credit for. Or gear matters vaguely more than I'm chalking it up to. But when all of those ugly facets combine in a way where -auto attack damage- is hitting me for more than half my HP at a time before 10 stacks on a boss with over 40% of its HP to go, I'm not exactly invested in trying to 'beat the system' on this one. There's nothing to engage with.
So I'm glad, at least, that some things got batted down with nerfs. Maybe they'll release layers 9 and 10 early and surprise us to keep the players who wanted something hard going. Plainly the UI allows for more.
I can't even make the legendary I want right now so crushing Torghast is kinda useless :(
For me, the thing that limits me upgrading/making my next legendary is gold for the base piece/mats to make it. So yeah, I haven't done levels 7-8 anyway because I can't use that soul ash right now anyway. I wouldn't have minded it staying hard and just being something one has to do once one has better gear etc. Even if that means waiting to upgrade/make your legendary.
@@maya6090 idk why they nerfed it i was running 7s with like 183 gear pre nerf. Kinda sad about it really. Didn't get a chance to try out pre nerf 8. Super excited about endless corridors though.
I have so much ash... I've never seen a callous hide drop and already blew all my money getting leather working to 100. Gunna focus on the farming this week. I only need like 100 of something I've never seen. Shouldn't be too bad right
The excitement about the chaotic state of the raid speaks volumes man. Keep up the good work, and more importantly, keep on enjoying the game and the great things you do for us
I am with you on Torghast. The time I really enjoyed it was when it really felt like endlevel content.
I hope your brother recovers and your family is safe. Happy holidays!
For me at lest part of the problem with Torghast is how random it is. How many anima powers do you get? Do you get good options with those powers? How much phantasma do you get? What is offered on the vendors? Which boss do you get? On top of them not doin a good job of explaining what difficulty to expect at what level could make runs very frustrating.
I Night Fae and i have free Soul Ash from Mission Table KEKW
I NECROLORD and I have free soul Ash from mission table KEKW
Im kyrian and im not:)
Im night fae and despite having high level followers!!!
"Mission failed".
T.T
How do you cheese it? I'm night fae and I've heard nothing about cheesing these missions
If Denathrius' mythic phase doesn't have Garrosh appear in any form, I will be very sad.
Did anyone else feel so happy to see a new vid from T&E on their sub's page? :)
Gonna be honest, other than to do the holiday stuff, my main hasn't left Shadowlands zones.
Day/night cycles (did you notice there are NO day/night cycles in SL zones? Not counting Maldraxxus with its long days and very short nights) and non glowy skeletons took me a while to get used to.
The issues with Thorgast has nothing to do with gear... its all about the mechanics in the instance and what tools your class have.
Thorgast has highlighted which classes are way too overpowered at soloing content and which are weak at soloing content.
I found the opening bit even funnier than usual because I've legit seen trade chat convos that go on for minutes praising the longboi parking people
Not just you. Torghast is too easy. Completed layer 8’s this week on alt number 4 in 160 gear.
Gearing is fine, but what do you think about the terrain design?
“Too long and too hard” that’s what she said
Not everyone - on our server it's been called Snoreghast. And you're assuming the nerf is the final version of Torghast... when really it's the final version... for now.
Oh so when I complain that the Maw is too hard and there's not enough loot I'm just not playing right but if raiders complain the raid is too hard and there's not enough loot it's all fine
Yes
yup, because The Maw is only going to get easier as your stats inflate, if it get nerfed then it will be no challenge when you're walking around in 220-235 gear, and this is just the beginning of the expansion.
@@UltimateGamerCC Same can be said for Torghast and Castle Nathria.
Well maw is stupid easy. Every daily is soloable even the suggested 3-5 player ones. So u must suck. The loots fine the crafting mats drop more like cloth and u get torghast upgrades, maw upgrades, profession recipes and sockets for gear
@@UltimateGamerCC Much like the raid, then
I personally try and hide somewhere in Oribos if I plan on using my Brutosaur. Not because I want to keep it hidden so nobody uses it, but because I am only using to search for something specific which won't take a real long time and I don't want someone getting mad because I dismounted it while they are still using it.
If Torghast was more rewarding then I would be ok with it being harder.
There is a second mailbox in Oribos, by the outside exit of the inn. Everyone just uses the inside exit and the mailbox there.
I dislike the nerf of Torghast. It feels like when you're in a game and it pity despawns an enemy or automatically puts you on an easier difficulty because it thinks you need some help. Screw that honestly. I liked the challenge.
same, this is gonna downright ruin Torghast later on, especially if the Infinite Corridors are nerfed for those nerf loving idiots.
I finished lvl 8 with ilvl 165. But I think it has a built-in handicap. There are definitely *more* buffs (and not bigger, but there is just more of em) on higher lvl. I am not sure if the number of buffs increases as if the ilvl is lower though. A natural "nerf" would be to add higher lvls later on with the last lvl always giving the same amount of ash but with earlier lvls giving even more ash. This would be an obvious catch up, too. And it would give players who played the whole time more leggos to experiment with.
raid is not too hard, it is supposed to be difficult and stop crying about no loot when you spent last expansion crying about too much loot, the game is excellent at the moment with room to improve stop going back and forth with your complaints pathetic boomers
I finished both torghast 8 pre nerf this week and it was really tough, but we did it as a team of 3 and the feeling after was the feeling in wow I chase where the finish is down to the wire with everyone's cool downs used, all lives used, pots, everything. But we did it!
Now it's just a grind....
We did both layer 8s with a 5man guildgroup prenerf,and it was honestly quite fun,it was like a +13 where you had to CC the mobs,and kill them carefully one by one because every cast did 10k hp,interrupt,stun, "kill the elite quickly before he goes immune!!" And a lot of careful pulling and stunlocking and interrupting every single cast, 1 tank 4 dps, it was not "hard" at all,but that was only because we were doing our best to make it easier, it was a tenuos balance, and you'd be reminded of the danger when you let one cast go through on a powered up elite and it brought everyone from 100% to 20%, the tense and panicked moments when the other elite broke out of CC or you aggroed more and you had to make quick decisions.
Certainly was not an experience for everyone,but we enjoyed it certainly.
100% agree. Locking the Torghast lvls behind ilvl requirements would've solved a lot of the headaches. Still needed to be made shorter/quicker, but I know it would've helped me not bite off more than I could handle and would've added more progression.
I wanna know what kinda pierogi, and are they homemade or store-bought?
I find it a bit sad that the base difficulty was so heavily nerfed, however the extra drops and upgrade boosts from the anima powers were so much more fun once it came out. Yesterday I ran as a night fae cat druid in healing gear and just ended up deleting the final boss on the 4th level difficulty, so it is great fun :D
i completed layer 8 as a resto druid with my hunter and warlock friend, 2 pets for aggro. Was really good fun. Didn't experience 7 and 8 before the nurf and wish i had. i hope they add more layers and more reasons to go there. Maybe loot and pets + mount drops. Weekly quests from oribos with rep rewards or even quests from Ve'nari to complete certain layers. Cant wait to see what they have planned! PS WoW is also keeping me sane in this Lockdown. Tier 3 here in the north west, sorry about whats happening in London!! Hope you guys have a great xmas with all your food :)
You may not see this among the myriad of other comments ,but no matter how shitty of a day I'm having ,your videos ALWAYS brighten them and make me burst out in laughter. Every time I see a notification that you have a new video, it puts a smile on my face. Thank you for your content !
Thank you, we really appreciate that :)
you guys have a lovely christmas and a good happy new year and i know how you feel i live in london to so level 4 lockdown is real fun right
I have to correct you there Taliesin, Torghast was not about gear and it wont be either anytime soon, its about the anima powers , I've spent 8 hours in torghast the first night of the "buffs" and it was a nightmare, BDK 197 ilvl on layer 8 , the problem came when you hit a tower sentinel + a deathspeaker that reduces your haste by 25 % and you end up with -6% haste that blocks your rune regeneration to 10 second for a rune -ish then you combine that with an imune to cc since all you got is health and utility anima powers well good luck killing that, that is not overtuned its just a bad combination of mobs, at certain points after i dont know 7 attempts 1 h + each i realised im not going to get any dmg anima powers playing as tank , so yeah some classes were completely destroyed by the passive abilitys of certain mobs that had to be fixed, there is a difference between chalenging and blocking out some classes of the content
Totally agree on the Torghast thing Taliesin, Endless Corridors and self-nerfs (taking off a piece of gear) is on my 'will do' list when I'm not doing 4 raid nights a week trying to get as much done as possible. (Normal on wednesday, normal catch-up on sunday because Draenor is still lousy with lag issues on wednesdays, heroic farm/progression thursday, progression monday.) Thank god for Christmas break!!
I love your humour! New to the channel, been having a blast watching these! Keep it up you two! Top notch
Your not joking Tali, thanks to Bolvar being a Scrooge for Christmas you had to do a mission table to get your Rank 4 this week.
.
Some of the bosses and some caster floor bosses were legitimately overturned if you were solo or were too spec specific. I do kind of agree they could have just started with the boss nerfs and giving more anima powers. Also for the love of god just give us a dungeon journal of the bosses.
Dang that opening skit was excellent
It would be great that if there was some official guide for item levels and torgahast, but I've yet to see any reflection of that in the interface.
I agree with you about Torghast. I love that I can't do higher levels with my sibling because we aren't a high enough ilvl. There's an excitement to strive for better gear to be able to come back and beat it together while having fun. It's the one thing that excites me about this game tbh.
This week it felt the tower was unnerfed a bit, or I got the worst luck possible in the new wing. By the end I had gotten 34 Anima Powers....30 of them being common, the other 4 being rare. On floor 6 I had 900 phantasma to spend and the broker literally just had 2 shitty powers for sale when he usually has 2 pages worth.