Can you elaborate on "loopies not being designed to take impact-force"? The concept of sliding-splices (whoopies/loopies) had worried me a bit 'in theory' but after seeing how frequently-deployed they are by pro's I actually just un-spliced my Safebloc from 3/4 Polydyne (20' long-tail sling) and put it in 3/4 tenex as a whoopie, having just heard you say that - and not actually having used my new configuration yet (literally just finished lock-stitching!) - am a bit nervous now!!!! Would love to hear any elaboration you could offer, mostly am wondering whether the worry is they loosen-up a bit, or if they can just straight-up come apart! Will have to double-check but had thought whoopies (w/ amsteel/dyneema) were pretty ubiquitous in the high-lining (tight-rope'ing) community where slippage would be disastrous! (FWIW I swapped the Bloc's sling because I wasn't using it very often even though it's my best hardware, I'd just default to the simpler 5', 3-ringed x-sling because....time/laziness/convenience/etc....so got the tenex/made the whoopie so I could get the Bloc as my default but any slippage would of course be a major problem!!) Thanks for the videos, surprised you don't have *magnitudes* more likes/thumbs-up's they are good stuff, am going to subscribe now myself, I know this vid is older than "the rigging-ring revolution" but it still confuses me why generic steel rope-thimbles weren't used as rigging-rings before real x-rings/etc were proselytized by Dave Driver...I use a generic steel thimble in almost every splice I do 1/2 to 3/4" and have used the 3/4" (on 3/4 polydyne) as a rigging-anchor and was hitting it with some decent forces and those thimbles' tops never 'pinched closed' as you'd expect if/when over-loaded and they cost next to nothing....wish the brass versions by Samson, that have (4) keepers on them, were affordable (having those 'keepers'/rope-ears on the thimble means you can use it on sliding-ropes while the regular
Cerberus, please take another look at this video and some of the others like "X Ring Rigging Whoopie". There is nothing at all wrong with using an adjustable sling (whoopie, loopie) for impact loading. I do it all the time, works fine. In fact, the vid mentioned above was the very first "how to" using X rings in a heavy duty rigging whoopie. In the video you mention, I'm discussing the commercial loopies that come with a Rock Exotica Omniblock pulley spliced right into the loopie. Those products are NOT SUITABLE for impact/dynamic loading, not because of the loopie but because of the pulley. The Rock Omniblcok is wonderfully, strong, high quality and packed with features. But it is not designed like an arb block and not intended to impact loading. The Omni+loopie combo can be incredibly useful for redirects, MA systems, hauling and lots of other tasks, but they[re not intended to be dropped on. Hope that makes things clearer … !
@@tghoffmann Thanks a ton Tom yes that clarifies things perfectly!! Honestly I'm new enough that I look at pulleys/blocks and think they're nearly pointless, I have a 4" sheave but use it almost never (have lifted a limb that'd fallen-into a canopy and got stuck, and used it for mech.advantage when pulling-over a ~25' Oak, otherwise it's shiny&new!), using ring-based stuff is just such an obviously-superior approach IMO (my slings are all ring-based, just swapped my Safebloc from 3/4 polydyne long-tail to a 3/4 tenex whoopie, have the 5' / 3-ringed X-sling, and an Elevation Canada single-XL ringed 3/4 Polydyne sling) What do you think about using prussiks to 'catch'/cradle the hardware on a rigging sling, IE I'm picturing putting a prussik onto a long-tail sling with a single XL ring on its end and, w/ the prussik, being able to make it adjustable like a whoopie IE choke it right on the spar with the XL ring 'dropped-through' the prussik loop! Can post a picture if I'm not being clear enough! Am thinking it'd be OK, I see the x-ring 3' loops being promoted for usage in a prussik-based manner but haven't seen a loose/regular-loop prussik being used on one end of the sling to go around the spar and 'catch'/cradle the sling's other end that's got the XL ring (obviously would need to be mindful that the sling//prussik interface would be the weak point, as the prussik would need to be thinner than the sling-cordage, so unlike my whoopie where it's 3/4 TEC cradling the Safebloc instead it'd be a prussik-loop(~5/8?) catching it.....seems an easy way to use double-braid cordage for slings while retaining the tight-choking, highly-convenient qualities of a whoopie!) Thanks a ton for the reply man, hope life's treating you well :D
@ nickbonner - Amsteel is great but can be reduced to 30% strength with a knot. It doesn't do well with abrasion or tight bend radius. Abrasion isnt really a problem here but the bend radius seems like it might be. Just a heads up, you might want to test your 3/8 amsteel with a ring on it. I know that everyone is using amsteel whoopie's now ( i spliced my own with the samson amsteel whoopie guide) but I think more testing needs to be done regarding amsteel's exaggerated reaction to bend. These vids and commentary are great. Thanks nick and Tom
Nice work Tom. The only thing I would change is use some Amsteel. The 3/8ths amsteel is lot thinner/lighter than the tenex, splices easy and is stronger. I agree its a nice solution for light rigging!
Thanks for the nice comment! Engineering Science education but never actually worked as one ... so my retirement is giving me a chance to play with some hardware.
My only other comment is that under load the rings will shift and most likely one will get pinched up decreasing the bend radius. Maybe tack a little bead of weld holding the two rings together and forming a 'double wide' ring.
I would be concerned that the tail of the Whoopie might get entangled in the line, as there is no way to deal with the slack end if it is installed remotely. Great idea though!
I'm interested in anyone's opinion on this. If you're using rings for rigging as some hacks use just carabiners - are you worried about heat buildup in the rings? After letting the line run on a large piece then holding the line static with a tiny section of rope just sitting on the hot carabiner and under load - guess it depends on the length of run, co-efficient of friction, materials, and load. But any scientific suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated! The X rigging rings offer a large bend radius and less heat buildup so would they be a better substitute for the steel rings? Or is the issue that Xrings only come in one diameter size?
+alexpeters Good comment, Alex, and true enough. Since this vid was done several years ago, the X-Rigging Rings (black) from Sherrilltree.com and the ABR Rigging Rings (silver) from TreeStuff.com have come out and made a huge impact. Today, for heavy repetitive drops, I'd go with the new rings. See several of my newer vids, particularly the "Beast Rigging Whoopie". Even so, for lighter work, especially when you rather not climb to the rigging point, these steel rings do surprisingly well. Steel dissipates heat well, the two (2) rings together deliver a decent radius. Good performance for a light, cheap rig, but not for heavy repeated blocking.
+Tom Hoffmann Thanks Tom. After I made the comment I did see your whoopie video with the CMI block and the X ring. I plan to build that for next season. Keep it up Tom, our industry needs people like you.
gentlemen thanks for the comments ... please surf to treebuzz.com/Rigging/Rigging Whoopie for some thoughts, particularly on the bend radius. Thanks again.
Can you elaborate on "loopies not being designed to take impact-force"? The concept of sliding-splices (whoopies/loopies) had worried me a bit 'in theory' but after seeing how frequently-deployed they are by pro's I actually just un-spliced my Safebloc from 3/4 Polydyne (20' long-tail sling) and put it in 3/4 tenex as a whoopie, having just heard you say that - and not actually having used my new configuration yet (literally just finished lock-stitching!) - am a bit nervous now!!!! Would love to hear any elaboration you could offer, mostly am wondering whether the worry is they loosen-up a bit, or if they can just straight-up come apart! Will have to double-check but had thought whoopies (w/ amsteel/dyneema) were pretty ubiquitous in the high-lining (tight-rope'ing) community where slippage would be disastrous!
(FWIW I swapped the Bloc's sling because I wasn't using it very often even though it's my best hardware, I'd just default to the simpler 5', 3-ringed x-sling because....time/laziness/convenience/etc....so got the tenex/made the whoopie so I could get the Bloc as my default but any slippage would of course be a major problem!!)
Thanks for the videos, surprised you don't have *magnitudes* more likes/thumbs-up's they are good stuff, am going to subscribe now myself, I know this vid is older than "the rigging-ring revolution" but it still confuses me why generic steel rope-thimbles weren't used as rigging-rings before real x-rings/etc were proselytized by Dave Driver...I use a generic steel thimble in almost every splice I do 1/2 to 3/4" and have used the 3/4" (on 3/4 polydyne) as a rigging-anchor and was hitting it with some decent forces and those thimbles' tops never 'pinched closed' as you'd expect if/when over-loaded and they cost next to nothing....wish the brass versions by Samson, that have (4) keepers on them, were affordable (having those 'keepers'/rope-ears on the thimble means you can use it on sliding-ropes while the regular
Cerberus, please take another look at this video and some of the others like "X Ring Rigging Whoopie". There is nothing at all wrong with using an adjustable sling (whoopie, loopie) for impact loading. I do it all the time, works fine. In fact, the vid mentioned above was the very first "how to" using X rings in a heavy duty rigging whoopie. In the video you mention, I'm discussing the commercial loopies that come with a Rock Exotica Omniblock pulley spliced right into the loopie. Those products are NOT SUITABLE for impact/dynamic loading, not because of the loopie but because of the pulley. The Rock Omniblcok is wonderfully, strong, high quality and packed with features. But it is not designed like an arb block and not intended to impact loading. The Omni+loopie combo can be incredibly useful for redirects, MA systems, hauling and lots of other tasks, but they[re not intended to be dropped on. Hope that makes things clearer … !
@@tghoffmann Thanks a ton Tom yes that clarifies things perfectly!! Honestly I'm new enough that I look at pulleys/blocks and think they're nearly pointless, I have a 4" sheave but use it almost never (have lifted a limb that'd fallen-into a canopy and got stuck, and used it for mech.advantage when pulling-over a ~25' Oak, otherwise it's shiny&new!), using ring-based stuff is just such an obviously-superior approach IMO (my slings are all ring-based, just swapped my Safebloc from 3/4 polydyne long-tail to a 3/4 tenex whoopie, have the 5' / 3-ringed X-sling, and an Elevation Canada single-XL ringed 3/4 Polydyne sling)
What do you think about using prussiks to 'catch'/cradle the hardware on a rigging sling, IE I'm picturing putting a prussik onto a long-tail sling with a single XL ring on its end and, w/ the prussik, being able to make it adjustable like a whoopie IE choke it right on the spar with the XL ring 'dropped-through' the prussik loop! Can post a picture if I'm not being clear enough! Am thinking it'd be OK, I see the x-ring 3' loops being promoted for usage in a prussik-based manner but haven't seen a loose/regular-loop prussik being used on one end of the sling to go around the spar and 'catch'/cradle the sling's other end that's got the XL ring (obviously would need to be mindful that the sling//prussik interface would be the weak point, as the prussik would need to be thinner than the sling-cordage, so unlike my whoopie where it's 3/4 TEC cradling the Safebloc instead it'd be a prussik-loop(~5/8?) catching it.....seems an easy way to use double-braid cordage for slings while retaining the tight-choking, highly-convenient qualities of a whoopie!)
Thanks a ton for the reply man, hope life's treating you well :D
Tom you are a smart man, what is your back ground, if you don't mine me asking??
Thanks
Alaska
@ nickbonner - Amsteel is great but can be reduced to 30% strength with a knot. It doesn't do well with abrasion or tight bend radius. Abrasion isnt really a problem here but the bend radius seems like it might be. Just a heads up, you might want to test your 3/8 amsteel with a ring on it. I know that everyone is using amsteel whoopie's now ( i spliced my own with the samson amsteel whoopie guide) but I think more testing needs to be done regarding amsteel's exaggerated reaction to bend. These vids and commentary are great. Thanks nick and Tom
Nice work Tom. The only thing I would change is use some Amsteel. The 3/8ths amsteel is lot thinner/lighter than the tenex, splices easy and is stronger.
I agree its a nice solution for light rigging!
Doesn't amsteel have less elasticity than tenex? How would it respond to shock loads? Or does even come into play with light rigging applications?
Thanks for the nice comment! Engineering Science education but never actually worked as one ... so my retirement is giving me a chance to play with some hardware.
My only other comment is that under load the rings will shift and most likely one will get pinched up decreasing the bend radius. Maybe tack a little bead of weld holding the two rings together and forming a 'double wide' ring.
I would be concerned that the tail of the Whoopie might get entangled in the line, as there is no way to deal with the slack end if it is installed remotely. Great idea though!
I'm interested in anyone's opinion on this. If you're using rings for rigging as some hacks use just carabiners - are you worried about heat buildup in the rings? After letting the line run on a large piece then holding the line static with a tiny section of rope just sitting on the hot carabiner and under load - guess it depends on the length of run, co-efficient of friction, materials, and load. But any scientific suggestions or ideas would be greatly appreciated! The X rigging rings offer a large bend radius and less heat buildup so would they be a better substitute for the steel rings? Or is the issue that Xrings only come in one diameter size?
+alexpeters Good comment, Alex, and true enough. Since this vid was done several years ago, the X-Rigging Rings (black) from Sherrilltree.com and the ABR Rigging Rings (silver) from TreeStuff.com have come out and made a huge impact. Today, for heavy repetitive drops, I'd go with the new rings. See several of my newer vids, particularly the "Beast Rigging Whoopie". Even so, for lighter work, especially when you rather not climb to the rigging point, these steel rings do surprisingly well. Steel dissipates heat well, the two (2) rings together deliver a decent radius. Good performance for a light, cheap rig, but not for heavy repeated blocking.
+Tom Hoffmann Thanks Tom. After I made the comment I did see your whoopie video with the CMI block and the X ring. I plan to build that for next season. Keep it up Tom, our industry needs people like you.
alexpeters Thanks, Alex, nice to hear that. Also check out "XRR Beast Rigging Whoopie"
gentlemen thanks for the comments ... please surf to treebuzz.com/Rigging/Rigging Whoopie for some thoughts, particularly on the bend radius.
Thanks again.
is bend radius an issue here?
What size Is the small ring?
28mm, normal "small" arborist ring