EVs - A Serious Fire Risk?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มิ.ย. 2024
- This week I talk about EV fires, and whether the stories we see in the media should alert us to a danger best avoided - are EVs too great a risk?
This is the latest in a series of videos sharing my knowledge and experience with electric cars. EVs have improved immensely over the last few years, and we are at a point where I think the majority of people can make the switch to electric.
00:00 - Introduction
00:32 - ICE vs EVs - how they work
04:08 - The prevalence of fires
06:29 - High profile fires
07:33 - Battery fires
11:05 - Troubling trends
13:33 - Stepping back
15:03 - Everything Electric Show
Source of information for this video include:
Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency - www.msb.se/en/about-msb/
www.msb.se/sv/aktuellt/nyhete...
2018-2022 report - rib.msb.se/filer/pdf/29438.pdf
Merseyside Car Park Fire
www.merseyfire.gov.uk/media/1...
anbeal.co.uk/page64.html
anbeal.co.uk/NCE%202018%20Liv...
Luton Airport Car Park Fire
• Luton Airport carpark ...
EV Fire Safe
Source: evfiresafe.com - www.evfiresafe.com
www.evfiresafe.com/_files/ugd...
Fire Triangle courtesy of Wikimedia By User:Gustavb - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index...
The aim of my channel is to provide knowledge and plain speaking about the transition we all face. I hope you will join me for other videos on the move towards a renewable energy future. I will be covering plenty more about EVs, but will also be sharing my experiences as I look into energy generation and electric heating. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
If you watch the video about fires and ev’s there isn’t much to brush under carpet it’s just people who hate ev’s ultra focused on the ones that do happen and don’t bother about all the ice ones
There certainly does seem to be a bit of imbalance about it!
Around here vehicle fires are common, often burning vehicles to the ground, BMWs and Audis seem particularly flammable.
So far though, no EV fires at all.
I expect that there are already far more LiPO4 chemistry batteries being sold now? These batteries are far less likely to conflagrate than LiCoMn chemistry types. Generally, only the higher powered vehicles are now being fitted with the higher power and energy density cell - think here Tesla M3 - all those built in China are LiPO4 chemistry. This will undoubtably reduce the already small fire risk even further for new production vehicle.
That's a good point. There are more, certainly. However, it feels like the majority of cars are still using NMC because people are asking for more range, and manufacturers are trying to give people what they are asking for.
Based on the numbers discussed in the video, it seems that battery chemistry changes might not make all that much difference, as the majority of fires must be something other than the battery, presumably low voltage wiring issues and so on.
A great informative video. Thank you. Have subscribed and will deffo check out your other videos.
Thanks very much. It's great to have you as a subscriber
Great Information, keep up the good work
Thanks very much, as always
Yup great info compare cars most of which are a few years old compared to ICE where the average age is around 10 years pretty poor info really.
@@davidlewis4399 But surely a 5 year old EV will be no risk, given its battery will need replacing by then.
Oh sorry not that was last year's scare wasn't it?
If you look at like for like meaning excluding ice vehicles of over ten years old as there aren’t EV’s of that age according to insurance companies they are about the same as they say that in newer ice cars the biggest cause is a fault in the 12volt circuit no the video showed the blaze shooting out from under the front passenger door where the battery is fitted the front video is not the same car , if they are safe why are some insurance companies not insuring some blocks apartments with under ground car parks with charging facilities. In New York in 2023 there were 268 lithium battery fires and 18 people killed and 150 injuries
I would imagine the vast majority of those fires in New York were mobile or micro-mobility devices, rather than cars. They aren't made to the same exacting standards - or, sometimes, ANY standards. Furthermore, they are often charged indoors, so they pose a much greater risk than a car.
Good sources used to prove your very well made argument. 👍
Thank you, much appreciated. I can't take all of the credit, though, of course - it was Fully Charged/Everything Electric who found EV Fire Safe. Huge thanks and praise go to them, because it's really the EV Fire Safe data that is the important part of the conversation, I feel.
Lithium ion battery fires are not a good thing. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. But it turns out that they are extraordinarily rare - in EVs (cars) anyway.
@@theelectrictransitionSorry but you missed one very important fact and that is the ICE car fleet is much older. Around 28% of the cars on the road are more than 12 years old. Around 63% of UK ICE cars are older than 7 years and I doubt many EVs are more than 5 years old as they age they will burn and fail. Biggest issue for me is the damage when an EV goes up the threat to life polution and other cars EV's suck.
Dr Euan McTurk (battery chemistry physis) is a useful source of information on this subject too?
@dangerdaveofdevon Good point, he is, yes. Thank you. His channel Plug Life Television has some good videos busting some battery myths, and he also features on the latest Stop Burning Stuff podcast.
Thanks for the tip.
Small risk, maybe,but horrific consequences.
Yes, fire is never good.
Are you suggesting that, because of that small risk, we should stick with a technology that has a much higher incidence of fire?
EV fires tend to ignite slower with lots of initial smoke before the fire than petrol car fires giving people more time to clear the area.
Petrol fires are terrifying if you are in the car when it goes up if it's due to a fractured fuel tank or line a damaged battery in a car usually pop and smoke before ignition.
Not 'per se' but the problem starts when they DO burn. Would you like to be on a car ferry that has a EV fire onboard?
I wouldn't like to be on a car ferry with an ICE car fire on board either. EV batteries may be harder to put out but the fire doesn't spread anywhere near as fast.
Modern fuel tanks are plastic which melt when they get hot enough spilling the fuel which then spreads and ignites evetything around them as happened in the Luton car park fire.
@@MrDAVIDATKIN Name me a vessel that has sunk because of a petrol fire. Then look up how many have been sunk due to EV fires. Does nothing get through?
It seems you really want to keep believing!
You are correct, fires are bad, and EV battery fires are not something we want people caught up in. The good news is that they almost never happen, as detailed in this video.
I don't think there is any evidence that there are any ship fires that have been started by EVs, yet. It will happen at some point, I expect - but at the moment, it doesn't appear to have. All we have so far is media speculation and a sprinkling of finger pointing. Fremantle Highway may be one of the ones to which you are referring, but we still do not have a definitive root cause analysis on that fire, and the initial information on which the headlines about that accident were based is now thought to be wrong.
Sadly, a number of people have been killed in fires onboard car carriers in recent years, so I don't want us to get into points scoring on that subject. Car carriers have been catching fire and sinking for a long time, sadly - too many fires, and for too long. Let's hope it stops - but a change in the regulations around the design of car carriers seems likely to be a barrier to that.
@@theelectrictransition "It seems you really want to keep believing!"
....hmmm, and you, in return, want to keep on closing your mind to actual events.
We'll let the facts speak for themselves - except there seems to be a determined effort to 'hide' such facts (airport carpark fire for example).
I just looked it up and I can't find any that "sunk" as a result of EV fires, I've seen a couple where initially everyone blames EVs because of hysteria then when they are looked in to they are either shown not to blame or the evidence is inconclusive. Please enlighten me of the ones you know that certainly sank the ships they were on@@kellyeye7224
All the EV haters: "LA LA LA! I AM NOT LISTENING TO THIS! LA LA LA!". Broken records, the whole lot of you.
Hehehe, yes, I know what you mean!
And brake fluid is inflammable too
Oh, right. Wow. Yeah, fire is a thing, sadly, especially in cars :-(
@@theelectrictransition well - impact - broken off brake fluid reservoir - hot manifold - 🚈🔥🔥🔥
Absolutely, your point is extremely valid.
When you think about it logically, it seems a bizarre choice to use an inflammable liquid for this purpose. We need to use a fluid that is COMPLETELY incompressible, so that we get very good brake feel. However, you would imagine that there must be more than one choice - and some of the others should surely be less flammable?
Thanks for the comment. It certainly has me thinking!
Hybrid car problems are caused by the close packing (and heat) of components under the bonnet, so any compromise of the ICE cooling system will be more problematic than a pure ICE car.
Yes, that certainly seems to make sense. Have you had first hand experience of that being a problem?
First, I didnt watch this video. there are people out there that dont want to buy EVs, I know thats a shock but its true. Its not hate why people dont want EVs, even though there are concerns about these battery fires, ( hide your heads in the ground if you wish, but they're true)
Its not the EV thats the problem. Its the way we are all being forced to buy these things. Banning petrol and diesel cars just show that if we still have "ICE" cars on the road, everyone will still be buying them and not EVs.
For me its about choice. Have your EVs thats fine by me but dont stop me from having a choice if I want to still drive an "ICE" car.
And yes we do see problems with EVs, yes petrol cars can have similar problems but brushing these problems under the carpet and hoping they will go away is stupid. Nothing will get done about the problem.
id say a SIGNIFICANT chunk of animosity towards electricification and EVs would be completely removed if banning ICE vehicles was completely off the table, loads of people would prefer an ICE vehicle even if they’re more expensive to run, slower, etc.
@thatkranberry2532 that's the only problem with EVs. We will be forced into buying them. No matter if we want them or not. If EVs are so good, then car companies and the government dont need to force anyone into buying them. They should sell easily. For me, the governments banning the petrol car makes me question and doubt EVs. And if the governments are involved, then that's a red flag for anyone. When do governments ever tell the truth?
@@keithb2055i think banning petrol cars when people are ALREADY moving to electric vehicles makes the issue even worse for me, especially given the nightmare of maintaining or repairing these new electric vehicles, insurance companies want nothing to do with these cars
It's no shock to me that people don't want to buy EVs, not at all. My channel exists to give people another point of view, to challenge their preconceptions, and to try to give them as balanced a view as I can of the latest options in a complex, confusing and rapidly changing world.
I completely get your point about choice. I understand how it makes people feel if they believe they have no choice - I am not immune to that! Indeed, I did a video on that very subject; you might want to watch that one. th-cam.com/video/oeVKdYRXLDw/w-d-xo.html
The problem is, we can't all have free choice on everything. We can't choose to do motorways speeds in built up areas, or choose to smoke indoors in public places any more. Those choices would go against what is good for everyone else. Sometimes our decisions affect more than just one individual, and that is true of driving ICE, sadly. Climate change is not something we can simply ignore, even if we might prefer to. As Al Gore pointed out, it is an inconvenient truth, not a convenient one.
What I would suggest is that you try to keep an open mind. You seem keen to accuse me of hiding my head in the ground, but how do you know if you didn't watch the video?
@@theelectrictransition from how i see it, the ever shrinking slice of the vehicle market that will buy an ICE will take care of the climate change arguement, especially if gasoline cars only then make up like 15% of new car sales, then thats already a MASSIVE improvement to reducing carbon emissions, and companies are already working on fuels that are less carbon intensive, such as SUSTAIN with a fuel that is already 33% renewable, and is only double the price of current fuel prices in the UK, this technology can help to keep ICE cars coexisting and helping to reduce their carbon footprint
Furthermore, consumers can make other choices to reduce their carbon footprint while still keeping their ICE cars on the road, buying local foods instead of imported foods, using solar systems to offset carbon produced from energy generation, etc. banning ICE cars would make a tiny dent in CO2 released as people are already moving to EVs, while upsetting those who value the experience of driving an ICE vehicle.
For emissions for health reasons, this would likely depend on the area the vehicle is driven in, as the results from the ULEZ expansion have been widely disputed, maybe due to the greener and less packed nature of outer london? who knows.
Obviously I would say that EVs are "good enough" now for most people, especially for those who dont really care about cars and just want something "that just works", but i feel that trying to chase a "Zero Emission Vehicle Mandate" while the market is already moving towards this, will just upset more motorists who prefer a gasoline vehicle, and will also provoke even more resistence to having an EV as even a main car with a "fun gasoline weekend car".
I am slightly biased as I do love gasoline cars and have done so for as long as i can really remember, but i think chasing the ever smaller proportion of motorists who want a gasoline car will just be a waste of time, and could cause people to be turned off to even trying to reduce their carbon emissions, as you could rationalise it as "oh the government doesnt want gasoline cars on the road", or whatever other reasoning that could be put in place.
I have only stumbled onto this channel a couple hours ago but I do have to admit that more people could use a second perspective on EVs, even if they completely loathe them, thats fine! but put some thought into how you could reduce your carbon footprint through other ways, and not give up your gasoline car.
Hopefully the channel grows :)
My diesel Mazda is so much prettier, not a potential bomb and cheap as chips (were)😁
Each to his own, I suppose - but personally, I wouldn't have a diesel.
Why I don't buy an EV? Firstly the battery is still in a begin era. When we're 10 years further the batteries are more reliable in terms of range. The range is st this moment terrible and that compare to the price of an EV. Then the politicians who likes to push an EV through your throat while they drives themselves a big fuel consuming vehicle. Then the terrible charging stations who are either not working, long lines, wasting time while charging in the cold and rain. Another issue is the unbelievable high prices and their fast depreciation of an EV. And let's be clear... the race is still not done if an EV is the future. Much more is coming and not to forget the bio fuel who can serve the existing ice vehicles. We also should not forget that EV's are not so clean as they try to convince us. How does electricity be created? Indeed by burning fossil fuels and only a little percentage by windmills or solar cells. How much rubber stat behind on the roads by the tires which wears much more by the enormous weight of the EV. Don't forget that when everyone starts using an EV, the electricity grid will collaps at once. For me its like this. Let everyone decide by themselves what they like to use, a fuel, diesel, biofuel, EV or hydrogen car. Not only an EV, because it will never works like that. Privacy is also a issue which by EV's is far to find. Control by governments is what people easy forget.
Thanks for stopping by.
I have already created videos that address a lot of the concerns you raise, so I won't try to go into a lot of details in response. I'm not sure you are ready to hear the answers yet - but there are plenty of other videos on my channel to watch if you are ready. However, what I can say is that EVs are working for a lot of people - it is estimated that there are now in excess of 30 million BEVs on the world's roads. And as an owner - someone who has tried one long term - I can say that I like mine.
They are not perfect, but EVs do already help reduce emissions - and more so each year as our grids continue to decarbonise. Furthermore, they are a solution that is already here - when we need it.
All this might have been kinda true ten years ago... Millions of EV owners seem to disprove all these objections,,, nobody will go back to burning oil after having an EV.
A video based on facts is great but the "EV haters" will continue to hate until an EV makes sense for them economically and practically, then I suspect attitudes will change. Perhaps the purpose of videos like this is to reassure us that the car on the driveway or in the garage is very unlikely to kill us overnight. Most car owners use their cars to drive to the shops and work its only a relative few "petrol heads" that will fight for their 50 year old ICE car until the last drop of fuel leaves the filling station.
They will, no doubt. I can't do much about the haters themselves, but what I am trying to do is to provide good information to those everyday folks who are prepared to listen to the facts - those without an existing bias. There are too many headlines that are giving a false impression. I am simply trying to redress the balance and get better information to my friends and family, in a way which gives them easy access to it if they want it.
Touring the country in an EV motorhome simply doesn't work. EV ambulances are madness as well.
@@ghunt9146motorhomes are only for the very committed right now.
Ambulances can be perfect though. 200 miles or so is fine.
🤷♂@@ghunt9146
It is a worrying thing when a technology being imposed on us by a government without any choice within tight timelines is a hater. The battle going on is between choice and central government control telling us we have to buy these extremely expensive to buy and complex to run cars. I do not hate EVs but just see no reason to buy one even if I could afford one. There seems to be a defensive feeling amongst the EV users seeing indifference as hate. The infra structure is just not out there to support them, there is little money to fund it. If many people charge at home how will any extensive roll out of external chargers be cost effective, unless high energy costs are implemented, hitting people without their own drives who are the least able to afford them?