Thanks for showing me how to do this,i bought a Hornby second hand DMU and its always squealed and lost traction especially on corners,so i will have a go servicing following your video.Thank you again,
@@LittleWicketRailway Hello there well i followed you i actually had my laptop in front of me while i did it,my motor is slightly different to yours,it has screws to hold the pickups in place,my motor wasnt as dirty as yours,i reckon who ever i bought it off gave it a little clean up,but didnt replace the brushes,so i did that all and it now runs lovely,not perfect but then i reckon it must be close to 40 years old so im happy :) Happy New Year to you.
I thought I'd just add something I've discovered this evening whilst trying to get an old Hornby Western working properly again, and it's a STRANGE one: Problem: Would work fine in one direction but in the other, over a few minutes would slow and stop, drawing no current. Tried all the normal stuff, new brushes, springs, cleaned commutator, lubricated etc. and no change. Solution: Clean away corrosion on the under side of the brush spring retaining leaves. Obviously the corrosion was acting as a dielectric and allowing current initially but becoming less conductive over time when the current was passing in one direction.
Hi, stumbled across your channel looking at your Arduino stuff but after watching a few of your other vids, love the content. Keep up the great work and i look forward to future releases.
Great BUT always check plastic gear wheels for moulding pips and defects, deformed teeth, etc . Sand each side of the wheel on a flat surface , e.g.glass to get rid of anything that will snag the wheel. Clean thoroughly in IPA after this.
Really useful video -thanks. I haven't any diesels but do have a couple of tender driven ringfields which I've had a go at servicing - plus just this last week bought a second hand Hornby County class which has a ringfield in the loco. It looks slightly different to the tender ones I've done so might need a bit more investigation before I mess things up!
Hi Try T-Cut to clean the Commutator with cotton buds it brings them up like a mirror although inflammable not so easily set alight I use the same procedure for wheels as well. Just make sure you get all the T-Cut all off and you will know that when using a clean cotton but no further black deposits appear on the clean cotton bud
A good step be step break down. Have you noticed ant performance loss using new replacement brushes as the original ones are long gone. I have been experiencing issues with these motors even after service such as this.
It can take some time for the new brushes to wear in, but generally the performance is similar I think. Sometimes I've also had to adjust the spring pressure a few times. Do you think the motor is worse with new brushes?
@@LittleWicketRailway I got an old HST from a train fair and when I got it it ran well but the brushes where very badly worn and jammed the motor so I got some new ones to replace them. The loco then ran at a snails pace with the controller on max and swapping the brushes with some from another loco it was fine. Putting the new brushes in other locos also effected their performance.
Thanks. That was my first time using the grease and I think I prefer it, it seems to stay where you put it for longer and makes less of a mess. The oil is better at working its way into the hidden places, so maybe a better solution for some light maintenance if you're not going to fully dismantle it.
@@LittleWicketRailway To the ordinary man in the loft, this appears to be a good video. From an engineer's point of view, I'd give it only 6 out of 10. Biggest issue was that the main bearing received no attention at all. Could be tricky getting the gear off the motor shaft - so it should have been run in IPA to clean out all old oil. After allowing it to dry, it should have been re-oiled with plenty of oil. Us engineers have no problem splashing oil over everything including the curtains. You put grease on the com-end bearing - again, should have been oil and enough to pool either side of the bearing. The gear train is a little more tricky. All the bearings should be greased as should the gear teeth BUT the motor gear and the two large gears it drives /should/ be oiled being a lower viscosity lubricant BUT grease is going to cling better to the gears. If the motor ran relatively slowly, I'd use oil but grease would be a reasonable choice - or even a mix (!noting another comment!) - mixing lubes to create a consistency you want is absolutely fine provided the two lubes are compatible - with similar bases. The rail axles should be well-greased as they carry all the weight. Cleaning fluff out is reasonable and cleaning the commutator is reasonable but cleaning anything else (non-moving parts) is pretty much pointless - a great waste of time ! You didn't clean between the com segments - which you should have done as they're great for collecting carbon brush dust and could potentially provide some electrical path between the segments. Bending the metal clips that hold the brushes in shouldn't happen. Replacement brushes should be properly attached to the springs and the other end of the spring should be cleaned as well as the clips they touch with IPA to ensure good electrical connection. I know this video focused on the motor but really it should have covered the whole electrical path - with cleaning (IPA) operations in all necessary places. This does not include the rail wheels as the pick-ups are in effect brushes and will be self-cleaning. I'm quite happy to discuss anything surrounding my comments and your video. One final thing - never use car engine oil as an oil for other purposes. Nothing wrong with it as a lube BUT think about it, it is designed to be pumped round and round - so is designed to drain away from things and not cling by capillary action like household lubricating oils - like 3 in 1.
Hi @@millomweb! Thanks for the comment, I'm not an engineer so I'll take a 6/10 😉 However, I'm not sure I agree with some of your points and I've tried to follow manufacturer advice throughout. - Agreed there are few extra things you could do a for a real "deep clean", like removing the commutator so you can get into the segments, but for the "man (or woman) in the loft" it's probably overkill and the risk of damaging windings or the gear probably outweighs the benefits in most cases. Maybe I'll do another video on removing the gear with a pinion puller in the future and taking a detailed look at the commutator. - The manufacturer advice is to use minimal oil. Excess oil finds its way onto rails and bodywork which isn't ideal. Small amounts of oil added regularly is better than a pool of oil. - I disgree that cleaning non-moving parts is a waste of time. Any dirt within the motor will could find it's way onto the wheels/rails. Plus a clean motor looks nice 😀 - Bending the metal clips in the way I've described is advised by Hornby in their service sheet to ensure correct pressure is on the spring. Cleaning new springs in IPA seems like overkill, but if you were reusing the old springs then it might help. - I'm not sure I completely follow the point on pick ups, but most ringfield motors don't have "pick up" strips that sit against the wheels like newer models have, the wheels are the point of contact with the rail. Dirty wheels are the one of the biggest causes of poorly running locos and they're certainly not self-cleaning, it's essential the wheels are cleaned for the motor to run smoothly. - I've not suggested using car engine oil in the video. I've recommened specialist model oils and lubricants. For cleaning I've only recommened IPA and speciailist electronics cleaning products. So I think we're all good there 👍
@@LittleWicketRailway Oil - on bearings, nothing wrong with a pool (but by that I don't mean a flood ;) ) gear teeth is different - there a smear is more the quantity but a pool here and there will get smeared around the gears with short use - again advice to run the motor slowly for twice round the track will do that prior to running fast. We don't go on looks - a well-oiled gear box looks good to me :) I suspect more the revers is true - the dirt and hairs have found their way OFF the track :) I was meaning re old springs ! The clips should be already the correct shape for their purpose and IMO left alone. The rubber tyred wheels cannot pick up - so I'm guessing the pick up is from other wheels - loco wheels when the motor's in the tender. The pick-ups I've seen brush against the flange side of the wheel - a rubbing motion that keeps the rubbing surfaces clean. around the actual contact point is likely to pick up all manner of muck but that should not affect the electrical path as if it does, it should be rubbed away with use. Oils - yeah - just really pointing out car oil isn't suitable to emphasise the point.
Thank you for this extremely helpful and clearly planned video. It is difficult to imagine the work being explained any better. Like one or two others, I disliked the ( in my opinion) unpleasant nervous music. One needs something calm and beautiful when contemplating taking apart a Hornby motor.
Excellnt - many thanks. I have a few of these to do and this helps take the fear out of it! Shame about Nigel Farage popping up all the time in the ads, but hey ho.
'Fraid so. Crazy Nigel not quite in keeping with the subject matter somehow! But, luckily only need watch five seconds of him so it won't make me tune out :-)
Thank you for this video. was trying to find out to separate the engine from the chassie of my early flying scotsman tender driven to replace traction tyres , but no release clip so totally failed! cnt find any way of getting the motor out .
You state that the wheel traction tyres SHOULD NOT be cleaned with IPA, I have seen other TH-cam videos that the tyres SHOULD be cleaned with IPA and cotton buds. As a newcomer to servicing Hornby locos, I find this very confusing, which method is correct?
Hi Derek Thanks for watching! I'll start by saying that I'm no materials scientist and that's why when it comes to things like this I'm cautious. Until I know for sure something is safe or it's been advised by the manufacturer I won't advise doing it. Ok, the stakes aren't high here, it's either dirty tyres or damaged tyres that need replacing, but in any case. I did some research and it's hard to say for sure what the impact of IPA on traction tyres is because we don't know what chemical traction tyres are made from, but IPA will damage some plastics and rubbers (pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Isopropyl-alcohol#section=Corrosivity). Equally some plastics and rubbers are extremely resistant. Anecdotally, I can't find any reports of someone using IPA on a traction tyre and causing immediate damage. The table at the bottom of page 3 here (www.farnell.com/datasheets/2686281.pdf) suggests that most typres of materials have at least good resistance. So if you're just giving it a quick clean once every 6 months or so then you'll probably be fine, the stuff will evaporate very fast. I think the worst case scenario is that you could reduce the life of the tyre, but they should last years anyway. There's no way to update the video now, but I may pin a post to the top of the comments if you think that might be helpful?
Hi rob great how to guide. Am servicing some 30 year old locks - one has a horrible grinding motor, another steamer the axels are pretty stiff and dragging instead of rolling - any suggestions?
Hi Tom, Try to get service sheets. Take things slowly. Motor noise is usually caused by debris inside the motor and/or mechanism. Binding steam locomotive drivers are caused by (1) debris (2) lack of lubrication and (3) damaged side rods or valve gear. To get more detailed information, you need to share exactly what models you are working on.
Nigel's advice is spot on. Start with the service sheet (R320 sheets can be found here www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=175) and be slow and methodical. Hopefully a bit of lubrication will sort things out. If it's damaged rods/gear then it can be more frustrating to work out exactly which part is causing the problem.
![[UNCUT] “ช่อ พรรณิการ์” ปะทะเดือด “มัลลิกา” ชี้หน้า สั่งหยุด! I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 22 ส.ค. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cJ_z_bHnvIE/mqdefault.jpg)
This is excellent. I barely noticed the music.😊
A good instructioal technique, state the aim, tools required, instructions, method and testing all with graphics.
Very good tutorial. Certainly the clearest and most informative that I have seen so far.
Thanks, glad it was helpful 👍
Thanks for showing me how to do this,i bought a Hornby second hand DMU and its always squealed and lost traction especially on corners,so i will have a go servicing following your video.Thank you again,
Thanks for watching, a service never hurts, hope you can get it running smoothly.
@@LittleWicketRailway Hello there well i followed you i actually had my laptop in front of me while i did it,my motor is slightly different to yours,it has screws to hold the pickups in place,my motor wasnt as dirty as yours,i reckon who ever i bought it off gave it a little clean up,but didnt replace the brushes,so i did that all and it now runs lovely,not perfect but then i reckon it must be close to 40 years old so im happy :) Happy New Year to you.
A brilliant and well constructed video - I now feel confident to service my tender driven locos. *****
Thanks 👍
I thought I'd just add something I've discovered this evening whilst trying to get an old Hornby Western working properly again, and it's a STRANGE one:
Problem: Would work fine in one direction but in the other, over a few minutes would slow and stop, drawing no current.
Tried all the normal stuff, new brushes, springs, cleaned commutator, lubricated etc. and no change.
Solution: Clean away corrosion on the under side of the brush spring retaining leaves. Obviously the corrosion was acting as a dielectric and allowing current initially but becoming less conductive over time when the current was passing in one direction.
Thanks Stephen, what did you use to clean it? IPA or did it need something abrasive?
@@LittleWicketRailway I had to use some 600 grit wet & dry sand paper as it was an inorganic coating.
Hi, stumbled across your channel looking at your Arduino stuff but after watching a few of your other vids, love the content. Keep up the great work and i look forward to future releases.
Thanks John, really appreciate that! Hope you found some useful stuff 👍
Great BUT always check plastic gear wheels for moulding pips and defects, deformed teeth, etc . Sand each side of the wheel on a flat surface , e.g.glass to get rid of anything that will snag the wheel. Clean thoroughly in IPA after this.
Use two screw drivers when removing the wheels , one opposite the other to avoid bending the axle
Excellent! Just a little bit dark in places, when you consider the object is mostly black ;-)
Really useful video -thanks. I haven't any diesels but do have a couple of tender driven ringfields which I've had a go at servicing - plus just this last week bought a second hand Hornby County class which has a ringfield in the loco. It looks slightly different to the tender ones I've done so might need a bit more investigation before I mess things up!
Most ringfields are variations on a theme so I'm sure you'll be fine. Often getting the body off is the hardest part.
Hi Try T-Cut to clean the Commutator with cotton buds it brings them up like a mirror although inflammable not so easily set alight I use the same procedure for wheels as well. Just make sure you get all the T-Cut all off and you will know that when using a clean cotton but no further black deposits appear on the clean cotton bud
Thanks Andy, I'll check that out 👍
Very informative.
Thanks Michael 👍
A good step be step break down. Have you noticed ant performance loss using new replacement brushes as the original ones are long gone. I have been experiencing issues with these motors even after service such as this.
It can take some time for the new brushes to wear in, but generally the performance is similar I think. Sometimes I've also had to adjust the spring pressure a few times. Do you think the motor is worse with new brushes?
@@LittleWicketRailway I got an old HST from a train fair and when I got it it ran well but the brushes where very badly worn and jammed the motor so I got some new ones to replace them. The loco then ran at a snails pace with the controller on max and swapping the brushes with some from another loco it was fine. Putting the new brushes in other locos also effected their performance.
Very well put together tutorial, not sure I would mix oil and grease! Just grease would be better, but at least you are using the correct type!
Thanks. That was my first time using the grease and I think I prefer it, it seems to stay where you put it for longer and makes less of a mess. The oil is better at working its way into the hidden places, so maybe a better solution for some light maintenance if you're not going to fully dismantle it.
@@LittleWicketRailway To the ordinary man in the loft, this appears to be a good video. From an engineer's point of view, I'd give it only 6 out of 10.
Biggest issue was that the main bearing received no attention at all. Could be tricky getting the gear off the motor shaft - so it should have been run in IPA to clean out all old oil. After allowing it to dry, it should have been re-oiled with plenty of oil. Us engineers have no problem splashing oil over everything including the curtains. You put grease on the com-end bearing - again, should have been oil and enough to pool either side of the bearing. The gear train is a little more tricky. All the bearings should be greased as should the gear teeth BUT the motor gear and the two large gears it drives /should/ be oiled being a lower viscosity lubricant BUT grease is going to cling better to the gears. If the motor ran relatively slowly, I'd use oil but grease would be a reasonable choice - or even a mix (!noting another comment!) - mixing lubes to create a consistency you want is absolutely fine provided the two lubes are compatible - with similar bases.
The rail axles should be well-greased as they carry all the weight.
Cleaning fluff out is reasonable and cleaning the commutator is reasonable but cleaning anything else (non-moving parts) is pretty much pointless - a great waste of time !
You didn't clean between the com segments - which you should have done as they're great for collecting carbon brush dust and could potentially provide some electrical path between the segments.
Bending the metal clips that hold the brushes in shouldn't happen. Replacement brushes should be properly attached to the springs and the other end of the spring should be cleaned as well as the clips they touch with IPA to ensure good electrical connection. I know this video focused on the motor but really it should have covered the whole electrical path - with cleaning (IPA) operations in all necessary places. This does not include the rail wheels as the pick-ups are in effect brushes and will be self-cleaning.
I'm quite happy to discuss anything surrounding my comments and your video. One final thing - never use car engine oil as an oil for other purposes. Nothing wrong with it as a lube BUT think about it, it is designed to be pumped round and round - so is designed to drain away from things and not cling by capillary action like household lubricating oils - like 3 in 1.
Hi @@millomweb! Thanks for the comment, I'm not an engineer so I'll take a 6/10 😉
However, I'm not sure I agree with some of your points and I've tried to follow manufacturer advice throughout.
- Agreed there are few extra things you could do a for a real "deep clean", like removing the commutator so you can get into the segments, but for the "man (or woman) in the loft" it's probably overkill and the risk of damaging windings or the gear probably outweighs the benefits in most cases. Maybe I'll do another video on removing the gear with a pinion puller in the future and taking a detailed look at the commutator.
- The manufacturer advice is to use minimal oil. Excess oil finds its way onto rails and bodywork which isn't ideal. Small amounts of oil added regularly is better than a pool of oil.
- I disgree that cleaning non-moving parts is a waste of time. Any dirt within the motor will could find it's way onto the wheels/rails. Plus a clean motor looks nice 😀
- Bending the metal clips in the way I've described is advised by Hornby in their service sheet to ensure correct pressure is on the spring. Cleaning new springs in IPA seems like overkill, but if you were reusing the old springs then it might help.
- I'm not sure I completely follow the point on pick ups, but most ringfield motors don't have "pick up" strips that sit against the wheels like newer models have, the wheels are the point of contact with the rail. Dirty wheels are the one of the biggest causes of poorly running locos and they're certainly not self-cleaning, it's essential the wheels are cleaned for the motor to run smoothly.
- I've not suggested using car engine oil in the video. I've recommened specialist model oils and lubricants. For cleaning I've only recommened IPA and speciailist electronics cleaning products. So I think we're all good there 👍
@@LittleWicketRailway Oil - on bearings, nothing wrong with a pool (but by that I don't mean a flood ;) ) gear teeth is different - there a smear is more the quantity but a pool here and there will get smeared around the gears with short use - again advice to run the motor slowly for twice round the track will do that prior to running fast.
We don't go on looks - a well-oiled gear box looks good to me :) I suspect more the revers is true - the dirt and hairs have found their way OFF the track :)
I was meaning re old springs !
The clips should be already the correct shape for their purpose and IMO left alone.
The rubber tyred wheels cannot pick up - so I'm guessing the pick up is from other wheels - loco wheels when the motor's in the tender. The pick-ups I've seen brush against the flange side of the wheel - a rubbing motion that keeps the rubbing surfaces clean. around the actual contact point is likely to pick up all manner of muck but that should not affect the electrical path as if it does, it should be rubbed away with use.
Oils - yeah - just really pointing out car oil isn't suitable to emphasise the point.
Awesome dude helpful
Hi brilliant video m8 only got 1 question can't find where the brown wire with the diode on from the carrage light goes help
Thank you for this extremely helpful and clearly planned video. It is difficult to imagine the work being explained any better. Like one or two others, I disliked the ( in my opinion) unpleasant nervous music. One needs something calm and beautiful when contemplating taking apart a Hornby motor.
Excellnt - many thanks. I have a few of these to do and this helps take the fear out of it! Shame about Nigel Farage popping up all the time in the ads, but hey ho.
Ohh what!? Have I got the Farage ads going on about the banks?? Sorry 😩 Hopefully you've still found it useful 👍
'Fraid so. Crazy Nigel not quite in keeping with the subject matter somehow! But, luckily only need watch five seconds of him so it won't make me tune out :-)
Do you know how to replce the drive sprocket/
nice one :)
very good video - but shame about the music, which is irritating
Thanks Mike, sorry about the music 🎧🎼🙄
Thank you for this video. was trying to find out to separate the engine from the chassie of my early flying scotsman tender driven to replace traction tyres , but no release clip so totally failed! cnt find any way of getting the motor out .
cant seem to find the hornby service sheets you spoke of could you post a link please
Hi Roger, try searching here: support.hornby.com/hc/en-gb/sections/360004631339-Locomotive-Maintenance-Sheets
Do you know the model's R number?
@@LittleWicketRailway no afraid not. I would have brought it late 80s early 90s
You state that the wheel traction tyres SHOULD NOT be cleaned with IPA, I have seen other TH-cam videos that the tyres SHOULD be cleaned with IPA and cotton buds. As a newcomer to servicing Hornby locos, I find this very confusing, which method is correct?
Hi Derek
Thanks for watching! I'll start by saying that I'm no materials scientist and that's why when it comes to things like this I'm cautious. Until I know for sure something is safe or it's been advised by the manufacturer I won't advise doing it. Ok, the stakes aren't high here, it's either dirty tyres or damaged tyres that need replacing, but in any case.
I did some research and it's hard to say for sure what the impact of IPA on traction tyres is because we don't know what chemical traction tyres are made from, but IPA will damage some plastics and rubbers (pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Isopropyl-alcohol#section=Corrosivity). Equally some plastics and rubbers are extremely resistant.
Anecdotally, I can't find any reports of someone using IPA on a traction tyre and causing immediate damage. The table at the bottom of page 3 here (www.farnell.com/datasheets/2686281.pdf) suggests that most typres of materials have at least good resistance.
So if you're just giving it a quick clean once every 6 months or so then you'll probably be fine, the stuff will evaporate very fast. I think the worst case scenario is that you could reduce the life of the tyre, but they should last years anyway.
There's no way to update the video now, but I may pin a post to the top of the comments if you think that might be helpful?
Hi rob great how to guide. Am servicing some 30 year old locks - one has a horrible grinding motor, another steamer the axels are pretty stiff and dragging instead of rolling - any suggestions?
Hi Tom,
Try to get service sheets.
Take things slowly.
Motor noise is usually caused by debris inside the motor and/or mechanism.
Binding steam locomotive drivers are caused by (1) debris (2) lack of lubrication and (3) damaged side rods or valve gear.
To get more detailed information, you need to share exactly what models you are working on.
@@nigelmisso6360 Nigel thanks for the advice. It is an R320 class5 circa 1981
Nigel's advice is spot on. Start with the service sheet (R320 sheets can be found here www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=175) and be slow and methodical.
Hopefully a bit of lubrication will sort things out. If it's damaged rods/gear then it can be more frustrating to work out exactly which part is causing the problem.