@@raitchison strawman. Unless you can demonstrate Tesla was the driving force for that 50lb awkward plug, it seems the issue had to be money driven somewhere. Where? No clue. I would sit everyone in a room and say you get water, no food, till you fix this.
I think one of the biggest problems is with the credit card readers. If Tesla was required to add those to their charges, they would have a lot more issues. Regulations that require credit card readers need to be applied consistently, so either that requirement should be removed, or Tesla needs to adopt it.
Tesla's going to have a lot more problems once they have to live in the real world and not the microcosm of their own product range. For EVs to really become mainstream you are even going to need chargers that accept CASH, or at least a human attendant that can. Right now, 25% of fuel purchases are still cash.
@@saff226 In a perfect world that'd be ideal. But various circumstances will occur and it'd be wise to plan early and have standards that will address various payment issues. Some people share vehicles, some people may borrow, rent, some may have reason to not want to have their credit card info entered into for whatever reason. Years in the future when used EVs are flooding the market and folks who are below the poverty line in their EV, there will still be people who can't afford to put much juice into their vehicles and may not even have credit/debit cards which likely would mean they'd have no billing information for plug-and -charge. I still see those less than fortunate filling $5-$10 worth of gas because that's all they can afford to get to where ever they need to go. All they may have is cash.
@@pasad335my guess is if you want to use a Tesla Supercharger you will have to already have an account with a form of payment linked to it just like they do with current Tesla customers
@@SeahawkAz Yep either that or using something like paypal or google pay through the phone and a QR code. I'm far from rich but I can't remember the last time I made a purchase with physical currency.
Back in the 90’s, I attended the network conference called InterOp in San Jose. As you can imagine the same type of cooperation between vendors was needed to insure cross-vendor functionality.
Tom, thank you for informing everyone that retrofitting CCS connectors with NACS is no panacea for reliable charging. Both hardware and software need major improvements. Several times, I’ve arrived with a low state of charge at a 350kW station and limited to 50. Another time, it was dead and only way to get home is charge for 2 hrs at a level 2. This is discouraging EV transition.
The biggest thing holding back the EV transition is the lack of inventory from BEVs hoarding battery supplies which is retroactively driving up prices. If there were more EVs on the road there would be much more of an incentive for these charging companies to capture that market and they would work through the issues a lot faster with the increased influx of capital. In the mean time I'll just use my Gen 2 Volt, only about 1/10 of the km are using HEV mode from road trips and long shopping days. Most folks really don't need 400 km range batteries.
Thanks for doing this video as it highlights the actual problem with the charging networks (excluding tesla) with the range of software the individual charger has to understand. I was dissapointed that EA wasn't there or was not interviewed as the one problem I have seen in viewing reviews is that when a EA charger goes down it can be months before a repair is done and i would like to know why this is. Thanks again
Tom I watched a video last night look for Flying J EV charger it in Oklahoma. That is really what needs to happen to move us to adoption. If people see EV and ICE getting recharged be it electric or gas at the same location It would make adoption a lot easier.
Pretty stunning how all of them were saying the CCS spec was so loose in its interpretation that it was causing interoperability. Sounds like a SAE CCS spec definition fail.
Tom - thank you for the look in at CharIN / festivals. If CCS (AND other) standards are POORLY (unclear, incompletely or both) defined, NACS probably has holes as well (Ford and GM are about to find out ….). CharIN CLEARLY has their work cut out for them, trying to aid compatibility between poorly designed (designed to poorly defined standardS) systems on both sides of the connection.
Thanks for the video. I'm new to EV's and have already experienced much of what has been talked about. As I have the 2023 Niro EV with a low charge rate I don't feel I need to be panicking just yet. I was hoping you would of also touch on a universal payment method, elevating the need to download yet another ap for payment. Your thoughts?
We need people like you to push Tesla to enable NACS to become an industry standard ASAP. Adapters need to be made available, but if no standard documents exist and are universally approved, Tesla can play “hide the power” like it did with those early CCS NACS adapters.
while I agree, I'm not sure Tesla will do that. But hey, they surprised me in the past. Everyone is just dewy-eyed over NACS being the NA standard. I'm just not that trusting of giving Tesla that much power over their competitors. The final story on how the Superchargers will work for Ford's and GM's fleet is far from know.
@@johnhigham8073yeah, in theory, this could be a good thing, to increase access to fast charging for more EV drivers. However, if Tesla periodically changes the "standard" in such ways that allow Tesla cars to work, while all other cars and adapters may have more issues, it will absolutely suck. Also, even with changing nothing, the challenges of charging a bunch of different cars that all interpret protocols differently is not a problem unique to CCS1, but likely will be an issue as more different cars move to charging off the supercharger network, even without Tesla making spur of the moment changes.
Also understand that the key to the "Tesla charger experience" is 100% in the software, and the problems with CCS are also entirely in software. Unless Tesla will be overseeing every other manufacturer's products for compliance, everyone switching to NACS will have no benefit whatsoever - It will just be another wild-west scenario with a different plug.
The local Military base that I charge at has 4J1772 chargers and 1 Tesla wall charger. That being said I ordered a Tesla tap mini from your TH-cam channel video link.
Tom, please assure us that CharIN won’t establish a specification requiring Tesla SCs to have displays, multiple buttons, and a credit card reader. These parts severely decrease reliability and are redundant with controls on cell phone app. Tesla has proven it.
They work fine on millions of gas pumps. If charging station manufacturers can't simply implement what already works without f-ing it up, they deserve to go out of business. Having card readers is not an issue. Stupid hardware manufacturers is the issue.
@@llaughridge I agree poor hardware & software plus horrible CCS1 handle is part of the problem. But existing DC Fast chargers have too many parts. The best part is no part. I’ve seen numerous CC readers at gas stations broken with a sign saying go inside station to pay by credit. Cell phone or RFID card is the best way to pay. Over 99% of the public will accept it. Most public transportation only accepts cash, gives no change, and we accept it. Airlines only accept credit cards, no cash, and we accept that too. Satisfying the last 1% is a bad strategy. The only thing going out of business is gas stations and car manufacturers who won’t let go of ICE.
NACS charging standard designed by engineers to encourage EV adoption. CCS charging standard designed by the ICE manufactures marketing department to discourage EV adoption, trying to keep EV’s from catching on. In 10 years the only place in North America you will be able to find a CCS charger will be a museum.
I wish ChargePoint and Energica would get together to resolve the incompatibility with ChargePoint CPE250 DCFC units and Energica motorcycles. There was a software update to the CPE250s that broke the ability to charge Energica motorcycles. ChargePoint doesn't seem interested in fixing the problem. I guess they feel it isn't important since the Energica community is very small. Other DCFCs work OK with Energicas.
The ball is now rolling with Ford and GM announcements to adopt the NACS standard, which has been a very welcome announcement. However, a lot of things are still to be made clear and achieved. Firstly, will the NACS adapters work reliably as the native NACS connection and back end software. Second question is will Tesla be able to gain some advantages in terms of the NEVI funding. Tesla has only promised about half the current plugs to be available for this cross brand compatibility. Will it really be as effective in charging some of the higher voltage cars such as those made by Hyundai Kia, Audi and Porsche? Tom, keep up the great work you’re doing on the charging front.
Hey Tom, regarding your recent discussion in E for Electric, you said that Ford & GM will use Tesla's software. Are you sure? I was under impression, that Ford & GM will just use Tesla's port, and use CCS protocol (software) to talk to superchargers. Superchargers will have to anyway understand CCS protocol, for older Ford&GM EVs to work via adapter. So, I think your point about other networks (EVgo, EA) - could be invalid, ie. it should be easy for those networks to adopt already open-sourced NACS connector. Can you give me your opinion about it?
If NACS would have 2 extra pins, it could be the world standard, those 2 extra pins are needed because european 3-phase AC charging. If Elon would have added these 2 extra pins from the start, we would have world standard now, even if in North America you don't need those pins, they could just be unused there.
@@CrankyTim yes you are missing something, supercharger takes in AC but supply to the car DC Power, that's why 2 pins us enough for that, but european 3-phase needs 5 pins, if you leave 1 pin out it means also that you lost 33% power, if 2 pins out you lose 66% of power, and everybody wants the full 100% charge.
Interoperability is the biggest question left wide open with the latest NACS agreements for EV and Charging Manufacturers. Will the NACS standard charge EV’s at higher voltages (above 400VDC) like CCS will? Will Tesla keep future upgraded V3’s that become like native V4’s only for future Tesla’s that will be operating at higher DC Voltages which is at the heart of Tesla’s upgrade? Tesla is behind in this regard even with 4680’s so the probability is they’ll be exclusive to Tesla’s that they’ll claim to be for proprietary software compatibilities. What will become of those higher voltage EV’s that are ahead today for road trip abilities aside from aforementioned issues? Maybe that is a little clearer now. 💡
Tom, do you have a video on Tesla wall charger vs. Tesla portable charger? I am planning to lease a Model Y early in 2024 and need your opinion on which to buy.
Why should the location be an issue if the cable is long enough? Tesla will have to adapt. When do we have complaints with CCS1 as only with non-Tesla on SC. 800 V + and longer cables will have to be the focus of next generation SC4
@@chevalde31 Immediately comes to mind: Curbside charging. For any vehicle with the charge port on the driver's side (which includes Teslas) this means you need to drag the cable over/under your car and have it sticking out into the lanes of traffic. Also, longer cables are more expensive, more prone to damage, and suffer higher voltage drop and thus incur higher losses to heat. You want them as short as possible, which is why Tesla supercharger cords are as short as they are. If Tesla had put the port on the rear right corner instead of the rear left it would have been almost perfect...
@@chevalde31 I have issue with ICE cars having their fuel locations on different sides, with EVs is early enough in the development that maybe they could standardize.
I would like charge port location standardized too, but for 100 yrs ICE vehicles had no standard and we had little difficulty at gas stations. My Mercedes fueled on one side and Lexus on other side.
Has Tesla actually proven that it can charge all of the rest of the EVs? Has anyone actually studied who shows up at one of the magic dock chargers and watches to see how happy people are?
Even their presentation animation sounds tone deaf. There is no reason for >10s handshakes in normal operation. And give us a handle that doesn't suck already.
This is where we need more chargers, simple J-connector chargers that are very reliable to charge vehicles while they are just sitting there. Chargepoint actually has a lot of success in this arena, we have a few dozen of their J-connector chargers at work and they work for everyone all the time no matter how hot or cold it gets. And because the vehicles sit for hours at a time anyway there is little point to visit a DC fast charger unless going on a road trip. Over the course of the week the battery will fill up unless someone has a crazy marathon commute, in which case the probably have a level 2 charger at home also. I have found that over the course of a week a level 1 is all most folks really need, some days they may run the battery down but over time they can get it back to 80% pretty easily.
I wouldn’t say im a Tesla fanboy. I would love to have an all electric CRV or Mazda CX5 with the same range as the Tesla. Here’s the problem. CCS is crap. whatever the problems are, it clear beaucracy is in the way. This isn’t a Tesla problem because they worked hard to make something work right for all the owners. I never hear an issue about downtime. NACS isn’t the problem but they are the standard setter on doing it right.
The US, unlike Europe, do not have three phase residential power grid... There is therefore not the same benefit having a connector that supports three phase power.
Physically, yes. But it won't happen because of the cost. I don't think any EV will have its charge port upgraded to accept a different plug than what it was built with. There may be a few do-it-yourselves like Rich Rebuilds that do it, but no automaker will do it or sanction doing it.
It would be cheaper to just go the adapter route, folks will probably be carrying a few around in their car for the next decade or so. That being said EVs that don't have a NACS connector will probably be cheaper on the used car market eventually because of the inconvenience.
This is funny watching this knowing it was recording before the GM/Ford/Tesla announcements and knowing these people have no clue that CCS was dying and now is on life support due to those announcements.
Are we genuinely convinced that if every driver could purchase a Supercharger adapter that we would find the Supercharger network as reliable once it looses its advantages it had achieved through vertical integration. The devil will be in the details but I think it is telling that there is such a long headway before Tesla is even claiming this will work. I suspect that it is additional confusing and unsatisfactory times ahead. This summer will be worse than last summer.
Been waiting on a new report from you in light of the Ford/GM/ Tesla alliance. A 20-min piece on the dying CCS standard not what was expected. But nevertheless, love your stuff. Look forward to reviews of more and more hardware with NACS connectors.
I recorded this before Ford made the announcement. It's still very relevant. We will still need constant interoperability testing, no matter what connector is used.
Hopefully with the NACS connectors comes Tesla's design for charging and software also. Plug in, QR code pops up on car screen, pay with google pay or paypal and start charging, shouldn't be much more complicated than that, hopefully it will be as simple as just plugging in for most cases in the future.
Just looking at the chargers behind them I’m concerned those don’t even work. They look like crap. People who want to go electric would like to go to a station that looks like they care about the car owner. These look like the electric station owner is concern about profits. The engineering involved in the pumps looks to be in too many boxy pieces, which are cold and lifeless. Again, money driven instead of consumer driven. BTC had the best design. The reason NACS is better for more companies is there is less beurarcracy.
Tesla took the charging seriously and made the software and hardware work to encourage EV adoption . Everyone else gave charging lip service hoping EV's were just be a passing fad and they would just fade away, never expecting or wanting EV's to catch on. Now we have this shit show of CCS that everyone is trying to patch to make work. I suspect more then a decade ago when Tesla engineers went to charging standards meeting, when they left they were shaking there heads about the growing charging shit show, went back to the lab and did it there own way to make it work.
Ford and GM habe switched to NACS, but we will never know at what price, and when next year Fords and GM cars will start charging at the SuC network, we will then see how much better the Tesla stack is or isn’t. Over here in Europe you don’t hear many people talking about it, but not all the CCS cars have a flawless experience at the SuC network and this taking into account that some OEMs tested their cars with SuC prior to the opening of the European Tesla network to non Tesla cars. BTW, that Ford made its announcement and a week later GM did the same and on the week after that on EVSE36 some EVSe manufacturers also announced their support for NACS is not a coincidence but a plot by a drama queen like Elon. All those people switching to NACS made their decisions months ago.
They can't until Tesla actually opens the standard up, which means publishing all the technical specifications, both hardware and software and handing it over to an independent standards body like ANSI or ISO.
And it will be the "standard" only in the US and maybe Canada. Everywhere else in the world CCS will continue to be the standard. Just like Metric vs Imperial, the US will stand alone - again.
If they hadn't made such a poor job of defining the CCS standard, these events wouldn't be necessary, it would just work.
Worth noting that Tesla was part of the working group that developed the CCS standard.
@@raitchisonHard to believe
@@raitchison strawman. Unless you can demonstrate Tesla was the driving force for that 50lb awkward plug, it seems the issue had to be money driven somewhere. Where? No clue. I would sit everyone in a room and say you get water, no food, till you fix this.
I think one of the biggest problems is with the credit card readers. If Tesla was required to add those to their charges, they would have a lot more issues. Regulations that require credit card readers need to be applied consistently, so either that requirement should be removed, or Tesla needs to adopt it.
Tesla's going to have a lot more problems once they have to live in the real world and not the microcosm of their own product range. For EVs to really become mainstream you are even going to need chargers that accept CASH, or at least a human attendant that can. Right now, 25% of fuel purchases are still cash.
@@pasad335there is zero reason for a EV charger to accept cash. Tesla's system should become mandatory. So much easier. Just plug it in job done
@@saff226 In a perfect world that'd be ideal. But various circumstances will occur and it'd be wise to plan early and have standards that will address various payment issues. Some people share vehicles, some people may borrow, rent, some may have reason to not want to have their credit card info entered into for whatever reason. Years in the future when used EVs are flooding the market and folks who are below the poverty line in their EV, there will still be people who can't afford to put much juice into their vehicles and may not even have credit/debit cards which likely would mean they'd have no billing information for plug-and -charge. I still see those less than fortunate filling $5-$10 worth of gas because that's all they can afford to get to where ever they need to go. All they may have is cash.
@@pasad335my guess is if you want to use a Tesla Supercharger you will have to already have an account with a form of payment linked to it just like they do with current Tesla customers
@@SeahawkAz Yep either that or using something like paypal or google pay through the phone and a QR code. I'm far from rich but I can't remember the last time I made a purchase with physical currency.
Back in the 90’s, I attended the network conference called InterOp in San Jose. As you can imagine the same type of cooperation between vendors was needed to insure cross-vendor functionality.
Tom, thank you for informing everyone that retrofitting CCS connectors with NACS is no panacea for reliable charging. Both hardware and software need major improvements.
Several times, I’ve arrived with a low state of charge at a 350kW station and limited to 50. Another time, it was dead and only way to get home is charge for 2 hrs at a level 2. This is discouraging EV transition.
The biggest thing holding back the EV transition is the lack of inventory from BEVs hoarding battery supplies which is retroactively driving up prices. If there were more EVs on the road there would be much more of an incentive for these charging companies to capture that market and they would work through the issues a lot faster with the increased influx of capital. In the mean time I'll just use my Gen 2 Volt, only about 1/10 of the km are using HEV mode from road trips and long shopping days. Most folks really don't need 400 km range batteries.
Thanks for doing this video as it highlights the actual problem with the charging networks (excluding tesla) with the range of software the individual charger has to understand. I was dissapointed that EA wasn't there or was not interviewed as the one problem I have seen in viewing reviews is that when a EA charger goes down it can be months before a repair is done and i would like to know why this is. Thanks again
Tom I watched a video last night look for Flying J EV charger it in Oklahoma. That is really what needs to happen to move us to adoption. If people see EV and ICE getting recharged be it electric or gas at the same location It would make adoption a lot easier.
Pretty stunning how all of them were saying the CCS spec was so loose in its interpretation that it was causing interoperability. Sounds like a SAE CCS spec definition fail.
Tom - thank you for the look in at CharIN / festivals.
If CCS (AND other) standards are POORLY (unclear, incompletely or both) defined, NACS probably has holes as well (Ford and GM are about to find out ….).
CharIN CLEARLY has their work cut out for them, trying to aid compatibility between poorly designed (designed to poorly defined standardS) systems on both sides of the connection.
Thanks for the video. I'm new to EV's and have already experienced much of what has been talked about.
As I have the 2023 Niro EV with a low charge rate I don't feel I need to be panicking just yet.
I was hoping you would of also touch on a universal payment method, elevating the need to download yet another ap for payment.
Your thoughts?
We need people like you to push Tesla to enable NACS to become an industry standard ASAP. Adapters need to be made available, but if no standard documents exist and are universally approved, Tesla can play “hide the power” like it did with those early CCS NACS adapters.
while I agree, I'm not sure Tesla will do that. But hey, they surprised me in the past.
Everyone is just dewy-eyed over NACS being the NA standard. I'm just not that trusting of giving Tesla that much power over their competitors. The final story on how the Superchargers will work for Ford's and GM's fleet is far from know.
@@johnhigham8073 ok. But Tesla has form.
@@johnhigham8073yeah, in theory, this could be a good thing, to increase access to fast charging for more EV drivers. However, if Tesla periodically changes the "standard" in such ways that allow Tesla cars to work, while all other cars and adapters may have more issues, it will absolutely suck. Also, even with changing nothing, the challenges of charging a bunch of different cars that all interpret protocols differently is not a problem unique to CCS1, but likely will be an issue as more different cars move to charging off the supercharger network, even without Tesla making spur of the moment changes.
Also understand that the key to the "Tesla charger experience" is 100% in the software, and the problems with CCS are also entirely in software. Unless Tesla will be overseeing every other manufacturer's products for compliance, everyone switching to NACS will have no benefit whatsoever - It will just be another wild-west scenario with a different plug.
Until the NACS standard isn't solely controlled by Tesla and instead is industry committe lead, it should not be adopted as the industry standard.
NACS is Rivian and Aptera, too now.
The local Military base that I charge at has 4J1772 chargers and 1 Tesla wall charger. That being said I ordered a Tesla tap mini from your TH-cam channel video link.
Tom, please assure us that CharIN won’t establish a specification requiring Tesla SCs to have displays, multiple buttons, and a credit card reader. These parts severely decrease reliability and are redundant with controls on cell phone app. Tesla has proven it.
They work fine on millions of gas pumps. If charging station manufacturers can't simply implement what already works without f-ing it up, they deserve to go out of business. Having card readers is not an issue. Stupid hardware manufacturers is the issue.
@@llaughridge I agree poor hardware & software plus horrible CCS1 handle is part of the problem. But existing DC Fast chargers have too many parts. The best part is no part. I’ve seen numerous CC readers at gas stations broken with a sign saying go inside station to pay by credit.
Cell phone or RFID card is the best way to pay. Over 99% of the public will accept it. Most public transportation only accepts cash, gives no change, and we accept it. Airlines only accept credit cards, no cash, and we accept that too. Satisfying the last 1% is a bad strategy.
The only thing going out of business is gas stations and car manufacturers who won’t let go of ICE.
NACS charging standard designed by engineers to encourage EV adoption.
CCS charging standard designed by the ICE manufactures marketing department to discourage EV adoption, trying to keep EV’s from catching on.
In 10 years the only place in North America you will be able to find a CCS charger will be a museum.
I wish ChargePoint and Energica would get together to resolve the incompatibility with ChargePoint CPE250 DCFC units and Energica motorcycles. There was a software update to the CPE250s that broke the ability to charge Energica motorcycles. ChargePoint doesn't seem interested in fixing the problem. I guess they feel it isn't important since the Energica community is very small. Other DCFCs work OK with Energicas.
Nonetheless Energica is still partially at fault.
The ball is now rolling with Ford and GM announcements to adopt the NACS standard, which has been a very welcome announcement. However, a lot of things are still to be made clear and achieved. Firstly, will the NACS adapters work reliably as the native NACS connection and back end software. Second question is will Tesla be able to gain some advantages in terms of the NEVI funding. Tesla has only promised about half the current plugs to be available for this cross brand compatibility. Will it really be as effective in charging some of the higher voltage cars such as those made by Hyundai Kia, Audi and Porsche? Tom, keep up the great work you’re doing on the charging front.
The big question I have is, what do I need to buy in order to charge my Rivian with a DC Fast Charger?
Wow did the garage camera get an upgrade? It usually looks kinda soft/fuzzy in the garage even at 1080p but it looks so much sharper now!
No, same camera. Maybe because I was closer?
should have it so when you plug in anywhere it just goes on your own electric home account
Given the low reliability of Electricity America chargers, is Electrify America not CharIN certified, or is the certification process ineffective?
Hey Tom, regarding your recent discussion in E for Electric, you said that Ford & GM will use Tesla's software. Are you sure?
I was under impression, that Ford & GM will just use Tesla's port, and use CCS protocol (software) to talk to superchargers. Superchargers will have to anyway understand CCS protocol, for older Ford&GM EVs to work via adapter.
So, I think your point about other networks (EVgo, EA) - could be invalid, ie. it should be easy for those networks to adopt already open-sourced NACS connector.
Can you give me your opinion about it?
If NACS would have 2 extra pins, it could be the world standard, those 2 extra pins are needed because european 3-phase AC charging. If Elon would have added these 2 extra pins from the start, we would have world standard now, even if in North America you don't need those pins, they could just be unused there.
@@CrankyTim yes you are missing something, supercharger takes in AC but supply to the car DC Power, that's why 2 pins us enough for that, but european 3-phase needs 5 pins, if you leave 1 pin out it means also that you lost 33% power, if 2 pins out you lose 66% of power, and everybody wants the full 100% charge.
When I buy my next EV will only buy NACS.
Interoperability is the biggest question left wide open with the latest NACS agreements for EV and Charging Manufacturers. Will the NACS standard charge EV’s at higher voltages (above 400VDC) like CCS will? Will Tesla keep future upgraded V3’s that become like native V4’s only for future Tesla’s that will be operating at higher DC Voltages which is at the heart of Tesla’s upgrade? Tesla is behind in this regard even with 4680’s so the probability is they’ll be exclusive to Tesla’s that they’ll claim to be for proprietary software compatibilities. What will become of those higher voltage EV’s that are ahead today for road trip abilities aside from aforementioned issues? Maybe that is a little clearer now. 💡
Tom, do you have a video on Tesla wall charger vs. Tesla portable charger? I am planning to lease a Model Y early in 2024 and need your opinion on which to buy.
Was Electrify America at the event? I saw you interview the rep from EvGo.
Who is going to do all the interoperability testing for NACS with all the different vehicles?
Charin, once NACS becomes an approved industry standard.
Sad we need to do this compared to other countires, that seem to just work. They seem to have better control.
can we standardize where the charge port is located
Why should the location be an issue if the cable is long enough? Tesla will have to adapt. When do we have complaints with CCS1 as only with non-Tesla on SC. 800 V + and longer cables will have to be the focus of next generation SC4
@@chevalde31 Immediately comes to mind: Curbside charging. For any vehicle with the charge port on the driver's side (which includes Teslas) this means you need to drag the cable over/under your car and have it sticking out into the lanes of traffic.
Also, longer cables are more expensive, more prone to damage, and suffer higher voltage drop and thus incur higher losses to heat. You want them as short as possible, which is why Tesla supercharger cords are as short as they are. If Tesla had put the port on the rear right corner instead of the rear left it would have been almost perfect...
@@chevalde31 I have issue with ICE cars having their fuel locations on different sides, with EVs is early enough in the development that maybe they could standardize.
I would like charge port location standardized too, but for 100 yrs ICE vehicles had no standard and we had little difficulty at gas stations. My Mercedes fueled on one side and Lexus on other side.
Has Tesla actually proven that it can charge all of the rest of the EVs? Has anyone actually studied who shows up at one of the magic dock chargers and watches to see how happy people are?
Even their presentation animation sounds tone deaf. There is no reason for >10s handshakes in normal operation. And give us a handle that doesn't suck already.
Exactly! That animation was out of the 1950s!
Was wondering if you've reviewed any installation of EV chargers in condominium/apartment scenarios?
This is where we need more chargers, simple J-connector chargers that are very reliable to charge vehicles while they are just sitting there. Chargepoint actually has a lot of success in this arena, we have a few dozen of their J-connector chargers at work and they work for everyone all the time no matter how hot or cold it gets. And because the vehicles sit for hours at a time anyway there is little point to visit a DC fast charger unless going on a road trip. Over the course of the week the battery will fill up unless someone has a crazy marathon commute, in which case the probably have a level 2 charger at home also.
I have found that over the course of a week a level 1 is all most folks really need, some days they may run the battery down but over time they can get it back to 80% pretty easily.
I wouldn’t say im a Tesla fanboy. I would love to have an all electric CRV or Mazda CX5 with the same range as the Tesla. Here’s the problem. CCS is crap. whatever the problems are, it clear beaucracy is in the way. This isn’t a Tesla problem because they worked hard to make something work right for all the owners. I never hear an issue about downtime. NACS isn’t the problem but they are the standard setter on doing it right.
Why didn't they switch to CCS2 a long time ago?
The US, unlike Europe, do not have three phase residential power grid...
There is therefore not the same benefit having a connector that supports three phase power.
um, many non tesla chargers say " out of service", so ya its a problem, its not just because of a lack of integrations
If a new charging plug in cord becomes available can it be retrofitted into all exiting EVs???
Physically, yes. But it won't happen because of the cost. I don't think any EV will have its charge port upgraded to accept a different plug than what it was built with. There may be a few do-it-yourselves like Rich Rebuilds that do it, but no automaker will do it or sanction doing it.
It would be cheaper to just go the adapter route, folks will probably be carrying a few around in their car for the next decade or so. That being said EVs that don't have a NACS connector will probably be cheaper on the used car market eventually because of the inconvenience.
Honestly the solution for best connector and charges would be to make a giant USB C! 😂😂😂
This is funny watching this knowing it was recording before the GM/Ford/Tesla announcements and knowing these people have no clue that CCS was dying and now is on life support due to those announcements.
Are we genuinely convinced that if every driver could purchase a Supercharger adapter that we would find the Supercharger network as reliable once it looses its advantages it had achieved through vertical integration. The devil will be in the details but I think it is telling that there is such a long headway before Tesla is even claiming this will work. I suspect that it is additional confusing and unsatisfactory times ahead. This summer will be worse than last summer.
Can we Collaborate on a guest article/TH-cam Video?we can offer news tip
Been waiting on a new report from you in light of the Ford/GM/ Tesla alliance. A 20-min piece on the dying CCS standard not what was expected.
But nevertheless, love your stuff. Look forward to reviews of more and more hardware with NACS connectors.
I recorded this before Ford made the announcement. It's still very relevant. We will still need constant interoperability testing, no matter what connector is used.
It's the CCS1 connector not the CCS Standard. He explains this at the end.
Yep, CHARIn seems like the bureaucracy that bureaucrats love! Tons of meetings, and nothing getting done.
@@wilber8260 Yep making money off the chaos.
Hopefully with the NACS connectors comes Tesla's design for charging and software also. Plug in, QR code pops up on car screen, pay with google pay or paypal and start charging, shouldn't be much more complicated than that, hopefully it will be as simple as just plugging in for most cases in the future.
Just looking at the chargers behind them I’m concerned those don’t even work. They look like crap. People who want to go electric would like to go to a station that looks like they care about the car owner. These look like the electric station owner is concern about profits. The engineering involved in the pumps looks to be in too many boxy pieces, which are cold and lifeless. Again, money driven instead of consumer driven. BTC had the best design.
The reason NACS is better for more companies is there is less beurarcracy.
Tesla took the charging seriously and made the software and hardware work to encourage EV adoption .
Everyone else gave charging lip service hoping EV's were just be a passing fad and they would just fade away, never expecting or wanting EV's to catch on. Now we have this shit show of CCS that everyone is trying to patch to make work.
I suspect more then a decade ago when Tesla engineers went to charging standards meeting, when they left they were shaking there heads about the growing charging shit show, went back to the lab and did it there own way to make it work.
2:45 "serves as quality indicator" 🤦♂️
😂
Man so thankful for Tesla. I don't deal with ANY of this nonsense.
Tesla was there also. Tesla needs to do testing like this also, you just don't hear about it.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney
Good to here that Tesla knows how to make it work, unlike others.
Ford and GM habe switched to NACS, but we will never know at what price, and when next year Fords and GM cars will start charging at the SuC network, we will then see how much better the Tesla stack is or isn’t.
Over here in Europe you don’t hear many people talking about it, but not all the CCS cars have a flawless experience at the SuC network and this taking into account that some OEMs tested their cars with SuC prior to the opening of the European Tesla network to non Tesla cars.
BTW, that Ford made its announcement and a week later GM did the same and on the week after that on EVSE36 some EVSe manufacturers also announced their support for NACS is not a coincidence but a plot by a drama queen like Elon. All those people switching to NACS made their decisions months ago.
Quote from Sandy Monroe regarding CCS bulkiness. “If you need a handle to a handle there is something wrong “
Successful companies will use NACS (North American Charging Standard).
They can't until Tesla actually opens the standard up, which means publishing all the technical specifications, both hardware and software and handing it over to an independent standards body like ANSI or ISO.
Testival sounds so wrong, 😅 it's like old folks who are getting screened for prostrate cancer!!
Such waste!!! Tesla has already set the “standard”, by license to their software and all is done already! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
If you have to buy a license from Tesla to use their system it's not a "standard"
And it will be the "standard" only in the US and maybe Canada. Everywhere else in the world CCS will continue to be the standard. Just like Metric vs Imperial, the US will stand alone - again.
This guy being interviewed was completely clueless especially that huge connector behind him
That was a 4.5 MW capable connector! (with 1.2 MW charger)
Clueless about what?