Great coverage on this issue, thanks Tom and Alex. Do you think there is any chance Tesla will buy out EA for example and convert their stations to use the NACS? How would the cost of doing that compare to installing the same number of new Superchargers? VW might want to be rid of the maintenance cost and the poor reputation EA has in the public eye. Tesla may want the quick expansion of their network and the addition of 350kW EVSEs as they move toward more V4 Superchargers of their own. I don't know the financial aspects so the idea may not hold water at all. What do you all think? Cheers and drive safely.
if Tesla bought out EA, it would probably be for the site only - there is no way that Tesla would use an inferior product - they would replace all the chargers. And, what would be the point of that? Well, it could be that Tesla then has very little permitting paperwork to allow charging - it's already been done...and all this would speed the installation of more SCs in many more locations...(of course , philosophically, Tesla may have problems with giving money to a company like VW, but hey-ho...)
The biggest hurdle to jump when it comes to making a new DCFC operable is the tie-in to the electrical grid. With that already done at every EA site it would be relatively simple to pull out the SigNet (et al) chargers and throw in some Tesla V3 dispensers.
Guy talking about 40 auto makers not being able to cooperate, and be rational, when there appears to be more conflict in his own head than in the industry. The sustainable future is no place for click bait, ranting, factless opinions, and shock value. Let's leave those channels behind as we focus on technology, cooperation and clean energy.
Absolutely true. He's become impossible to listen to. If he still has the ID.4, he complained about it so much but somehow he hates Tesla even more. He's a bitter person who cannot be somewhat objective.
Tom, Thanks for keeping things logical and not reacting to the overt rage Alex was trying to elicit. Based on this video, I can't see that Alex is providing any value to the EV market. As a Mach-E owner, I'm thrilled that I'll be able to drive electric to more locations. EA has been so unreliable that there are places I won't take the Mach-E. I think this is a win for Tesla. They just got all of the other automakers to give them a reason NOT to do Magic Doc. I've been wondering why more Magic Doc stations haven't rolled out given how well the NY stations seemed to be working.
Alex really gets gets catty about Tesla. He's entitled to his opinion but his channel became him complaining about Musk so much that I unsubbed. I'd rather listen to professional and impartial journalists report.
@@KineticEVI subscribed to Alex's channel for (years) but eventually gave up on whatever it was in his personal life that soured him on everything, in this case, everything surrounding EV's, and unsubscribed. He seems to think that nitpicking holes in everything is an attractive trait and not the misery arse experience it is in reality. Going out of your way to be unhappy can never be a great way to find satisfaction in life and all you'll really end up doing is alienating yourself from society at the end of the day; I have an elderly neighbour like that.
Great presentation Tom. Your comments were factually based and logical. The way you presented the facts made since to me why ford and gm decided to go with the tesla connectors. I wonder if there will be a way to retrofit the connectors on existing electric vehicles to tesla’s connectors.
I subscribe to State of Charge and not Alex’s channel, but underneath the rage headlines, Alex makes some very good points. The Tesla control of the network and connector (two separate but related things) could be risky for consumers. Moreover, he is right about Ford and GM failing on the network building front, and that they were never serious about committing the money and time to building a good network in the first place. They took the lazy route and relied on EA, but they didn’t even invest in the network. It could work out but we are putting a lot of trust in Tesla to now act responsibly and also expand their network to accommodate the new users
This guy Alex makes no sense! With his argument, Ford bowed to Good year for not making there own tires for their cars! And I can go on and on. Can't believe I use to subscribe to him.
I stopped watching Alex a long time ago, watching this reminds me why. I just don't agree with him all that much and his points are baffling. Great job Tom.
I understand what you mean, I have still watched his videos in recent times, but its getting harder and harder to do so!, he seems to have such a b in his bonnet over Tesla ! it's not funny !, I know they are not perfect & their cars are not for everybody, but from a pure practicality, get you from A to B reliably with a charging system that just works! , they are pretty hard to beat !.
Tom with do all my respect, you don't need Alex anymore and you don't need these drama on your channel. He is constantly being negative and going to nowhere with his opinions, he is offering nothing of value except sarcasm. You should work with Kyle from Out of Spec and Sandy Munro, people with common sense. I think you posted this here to finally take a decision, and I think you already did.
It's really a bummer how little Alex understands about all of this, both from a technical standpoint and from a business standpoint as well. You tried, Tom, and for that, I thank you.
The biggest issue is not necessarily the connector, it's the upkeep. Tesla has been a more conscientious provider. It has maintained its stations to be up & running at a very high level compared to its competitors. So the question should be: By utilizing the NACS standard, will you also do more to maintain your properties in order to keep them consumer-ready and friendly? Then the world will definitely be a better place.
I think the main problem with EA is that it was largely done by a company that had to do it as punishment. So there was little incentive to do it right.
Tom, you made very logical points. Alex was like a kid kicking and screaming to get what he wants. The facts are the facts and you had them. Tesla’s goal is to move the world to sustainable energy. That’s why they opened up their connector in charging networked other companies. I am a Tesla owner and can see this might be an issue for me charging on road trips in the short term. In the long term I think it’s good for everyone.
I enjoy every other video from the SOC channel. Tom is endlessly logical and clear thinking and speaking. As a previous subscriber of Alex’s, somewhere along the line, he went from fairly logical, to the flat earth thinker of for the EV industry. He wants to argue and be heard so badly, that he will find things to complain about that make no sense what so ever. Example in this chat is how he doesn’t understand why the old school automakers don’t make their own charging network. If you can’t think that one through, I think you’re in the wrong industry. You, sir, have not got your finger on the pulse of anything, much less the EV landscape.
Wow, listening to Alex essentially cry for 20 minutes was actually frustrating to listen to. hes stuck in his own mind and refuses to look at the situation objectively. Thank you Tom for being the voice of reason.
Tom: "Here is why CCS didn't work and why NACA is good for Tesla owners, non-Tesla owners." Alex rebuttal: "I don't accept any of that". It seemed like Alex used to have a bit more thoughtful responses...
Gas cars use the same type of fuel tank opening and all the gas stations use the same pump handle. The closer electric cars approach this, the better it will be for the EV industry. How Alex cannot see it? The credit card analogy was super weak. Credit cards are all the same. The only thing different is the brand.
Alex please ... these big car manufacturers are NOT in the business to create infrastructure of any kind. Question: did they assist in making gasoline pumps and stations around the world? Answer no. So why would you expect them to now do this? It is not good business for them. ND. (no disrespect)
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney his Channel has a different audience - more of entertainment rather than information based. He did(does?) have a nice sense of humour, but his unhidden dislike of anything Tesla almost always goes into misinformation territory. He certainly holds a grudge for long... now VW joined his dislike category. Not much of a first adopter mentality he claims to have.
“This is good for EV consumers… but is it good for Tesla drivers?” Wait. Aren’t Tesla drivers EV drivers? Won’t they benefit from other networks adding NACS points and expanding the network? Y’all act like every other network is shutting down because of this and 20 million EVs will be lining up at Tesla chargers. It’s just not the case. The stunning lack of understanding in this topic while simultaneously making grandiose statements is insulting to viewers.
When AMC puts in chargers at their movie theaters, I wonder what plug they're going to use now... And if that ends up being a free charge for say AMC A-List subscribers, that might make me more willing to sign back up for A-List. Does this work with J1772? Sure, but I'd love to just get out of my car, plug in, and not have to worry about an adapter every time. Especially as more places introduce chargers, and we end up charging more at more places. Imagine a future where you stop to get dinner, and you charge for 2-3 hours. You have a doctors appointment, you charge for an hour or two. You're at work, you charge for 8 hours. You're at a movie, you charge 2-3 hours. You're out shopping, you charge for 2 hours.
Tom, thanks for explaining this perfectly- the car manufacturers are in the business of making cars, not gas stations. If the gas station standard changed to using a different handle, the car manufacturers had to adapt. When Alex spoke about cell phone manufacturers, it's the same argument- the USB-C standard is already in place and the Android manufacturers said ok, we'll use this charging type. Apple did similar to Tesla with a proprietary charger type for many years but the consumers pushed back and said no, they want USB-C instead. In the case of cars, Tesla won this round due to the $$ they put into the massive charging infrastructure which no other car manufacturer wanted to. This video has certainly cemented why I subscribe to Tom and not to Alex 😊
I used to watch Alex to get a slightly different perspective on things, until he became completely intolerable. Love your content Tom, it was always my favorite part of Alexs show.
Alex has an axe to grind. Sad he is arguing for the argument sake. Tesla owner loosing advantage opening up supercharger only if no new ones are being build from this point forward. Also, think outside the box, why should Tesla make EV forever? Owning the charging network for all EV, integrate power delivery system with MegaPack & arbitrage power could be much more lucrative than EV manufacturing.
Hahaha Alex! The guy only relies on his Tesla clisckbait for clicks. Also this is the guy that said his Chevy Volt is the best electric car out there 🤣😂😂.
WOW! For a guy with his own EV channel, he truly seems clueless. He whines about how bad CCS is and doesn’t understand why everyone wants to switch to NACS. YOU MADE YOUR CASE? You rambled on and contradicted yourself numerous times. Smartest thing US manufacturers could do.
Tom, you are quite right in suggesting that the followers of your channel and Alex’s channel might be different. Some years ago. I used to follow E for Electric but soon found myself in strong disagreement with Alex and commenting on that to such a degree that he asked me to unsubscribe which I did. Following that I still came across him as Sandy Munro was having discussions with him on various subjects for a period of time - thankfully that seems to have stopped now. I still found Alex to have strong opinions with incomplete information. On his channel arguments were portrayed as ending with a difference of opinion with either position being equally plausible. Generally speaking, I found Alex to be talking as if he was a technical expert when he clearly was not. To make matters worse, his videos frequently employed “click bait”. I am generally the easy-going type, but I could not tolerate Alex. In the end, I don’t consider him to be a person of integrity. I am a long-time subscriber of your channel. I generally have no comment to make beyond a well-deserved thank you for researching this or that and reporting your findings. I have never had occasion to point out some obvious flaw in your reporting. To the matter at hand for this video. My first reaction when I heard about the agreement with Ford was surprise. Clearly, the supercharger network represented a huge competitive advantage (a so-called financial moat) for Tesla. Making a significant portion of this network available to Ford gives up that competitive advantage. When Tesla (Elon) explained why they had agreed to this - it accelerated to move toward sustainable transportation - it all became clear. This was Tesla acting with integrity on their mission instead of trying to leverage the advantage that Tesla had gained by striking out alone and building out this charging network first. If Ford or GM has built out a charger network, I am not sure that they would be willing to share it as easily. I expect it will not be too much longer before we see FSD being licensed to other manufacturers. FSD will revolutionize the transportation industry. Although it also represents a financial moat, there is too much at stake (lives saved) that it would not be licensed to others. Failure to do so would, IMO, result in regulatory action to make it available to all EV manufacturers.
Wow. Alex is all ego and nothing else. I have an Ioniq 5 and this is cool news to me. Better consumer experience is the most important thing. Not stressing about "bowing down" and shit lol.
Don’t do anymore work with this clown Tom. I have recently unsubscribed form his channel. All he wants to do is argue because he’s mad at the whole industry. He no longer has anything valid to say, just wants to argue with everyone. I will be disappointed if you continue to interact with him at all.
@bonr407: I share your opinion about Alex; he has been on a bit of a downward spiral of late, burning bridges behind him. I will stay with him for a little longer, however, to see if he doesn’t improve his attitude. 🧐 He has had good insight before.
I don't ever really take anything Alex says seriously anymore. I've seen enough of his videos to tell that his blind hatred of Elon Musk seems to contaminate most of his rhetoric regarding Tesla. He seems more interested in discrediting Elon Musk than he is in providing current/prospective EV owners with any useful information or analyses.
I don't know what Alex is trying to argue. He seems to be all over the place as to what kind of point he's trying to make out of except defending his love for Tesla. Alex failed to understand that having NACS an industry standard is a huge win for North American EV consumers. Tesla in long run is a win. Tesla is also an electric company. They can continue to build more supercharging stations, not to menton EA, chargepoing and EVgo will include NACS plug. Tom seem to be the intelligent one on this debate. Thanks Tom for keeping it real. Alex is definitely annoying to watch and hear him speak. For sure i am NOT going to sub his channel.
GM and Ford do not want to accelerate the transition to Electric Vehicles that is why they haven't and don't want to build there own charging networks, doing so would only accelerate their own demise! But now they see that if they don't have charging available they are in even deeper trouble because the tipping point is already past so the only option left is to join in with Tesla.
I think this move is good for the industry. I also think it is good for Tesla as another revenue source. This is also in line with their stated goal of replacing ICE with EV. I jumped from 2:00 to your summary as that was as much of Alex as I could stand. I think this removes an advantage that Tesla had, but this will only hurt them when they get to the point that they cannot sell all the cars they make.
Stop whining incessantly, Alex! Elon’s motivation is to increase profits. Tesla is required to open up its chargers to non-Tesla EVs in order to access billions of dollars of federal funding for infrastructure upgrades. Money makes the monkey dance! As Tom said, there are several reasons Tesla's network is the most reliable: they build the car, they build the charger, they build the software. There's no interference from outsiders!! Elon CONTROLS the infrastructure so there's no contamination of any type which could poison the customers’ experience!!! And, Alex’s bank card works in Bangkok because it took more than a decade to work out the bugs for interoperability to occur between/among tens of millions of cardholders and tens of thousands of banks. I know because I worked in the financial transactions processing industry in the ‘90s and early 2000s when sharing between ATM networks and bank cards became a reality!! There's much more to say!!
I stopped watching Alex anymore because he's gotten so anti Tesla and anti United States now. He's so negative about everything now. But why wouldn't we want one standard for a charging connector? Of course we would! And if Tesla gets money from the Feds for opening up Supercharges to other EV's, they will triple the Supercharger installations quickly. Alex, Tesla isn't controlling the charging standard. They opened it up to everyone! This is a good thing, stop hating! Your logic failed and Tom made so much more sense. You completely missed the point that Tom said, the legacy auto makers don't want to make the fuel. My God, why is that so hard you so grasp?! No car company made the fuel stations until Tesla, that was their plan and not the direction other companies wanted to go. It doesn't mean they failed. If you opened a hot dog stand, are you also supposed to have hamburgers? Just because you don't agree with their business decisions you call them failures. Come on! Bangkok can have you! Sorry Tom but I had to thumbs down this video because Alex annoyed me so much.
As an EV6 owner with a J1772/CCS1 system, I'm ecstatic that the Tesla NACS will now be the new standard for EV charging in the USA. Having used Tesla chargers on my brother's Model S, I can tell you it is a way better charging system. However, ALL manufacturers need to ensure that seamless plug and play works on all EVs going forward. Not to sound to harsh, but this discussion reminded me why I quit watching Alex's channel.
My personal opinion is that Tesla is the only one doing it right, they are putting a LOT of chargers in vs a few. I believe the BBB Bill only requires 3 Charger per location. That is just not acceptable to me. It should be min 10 or more per location (yes I know there is a lot involved). We need setups in places like Rest Stops or like Gas Stations on the highways that have dozens of chargers. I think charging is going to get worse before it get better. One take away from this is that even if EA and the others change their connectors to NACS they still will have the same issues that they are having due to the implementation of the CCS Standard. That to me is really what needs to be addresses ASAP.
Since this was taped, Volvo and VW have both announced that they are looking into adopting the NACS for their Nth American vehicles. Alex completely misses the point of Tesla opening up the charging standard and network. From Tesla's viewpoint, their entire raison d'être is to accelerate the swift transition to clean sustainable transportation and energy. Opening up to other automotive manufacturers could stimulate this and, (eventually), provide another revenue stream for Tesla Utility or whatever they're calling Tesla's new energy generation and storage utility company; Tesla has announced that they will be locating many more charging stations at shopping malls and they'll co-locate solar canopies with them. That adds up to a lot of juice generation and consumption if all manufacturers' EV's can charge there too. I've long thought that just as the - BOGOF or Buy One, Get One Free advertisment has become ubiquitous, so too, will SCS or Stop, Charge, Shop.
If you have watched E for Electric very much you already know that Alex has a bias against Tesla.....If you start with that bias, you're going to be trying to point out how Tesla has fucked up no matter how strong the argument is against you...Thats what you got in this debate...
One should never have regrets doing the right thing. CCS totally sucks. Apart from being bulky and cumbersome the real problem is that you have a 50/50 chance of it working. The design, components and reliability of CCS are just horrible.
Alex doesn't seem to have a clue how all this works to be going off on a rant of this level. This has never been about the connector, it has been about 100's of manufacturers all believing they know better than everyone else making some piece of the puzzle 'better' and the software and the interface to the cars is a complete mess
Tesla wants the world to move to electric vehicles. Doh. With the bad charging experience for people that have other EVs, EV adoption will slow. With increased adoption of more EVs, Tesla will sell more EVs because many more people will want to buy EVs (and Teslas are better, more efficient, etc.). Tesla is not stupid. Alex is wrong.
Alex seems really tone deaf during this. The whole point of Tesla doing this is to accelerate the transition to EVs. If we have both CCS and NACS, it will take a lot longer the transition as it will be harder to build charging infrastructure for two connectors. There are also some people that will never buy Tesla and want an EV that is easier to charge so this will benefit them. While this won't have a major impact on Tesla owners, it will be helpful to EV owners at large as Tesla will be able to make more money to allow them to install more changers and build out the network for everyone.
I don’t understand Alex’s opposition. And the comment he just made about smartphone companies disproves his point. Prime example, Apple designs the iPhone but buys components from Samsung and other companies to produce the it. Automakers switching NACS is a huge win for the industry overall because it introduces a standard that every EV will use, which in the long run means Tesla will likely sell more EVs because there will be much wider network of chargers. Similarly, there is only one standard for gas pumps nozzles, which allows automakers to focus on just creating good cars and not also trying build out their own fueling stations.
Dang! I had unsubscribed to Alex "quichot" for a reason.... NCAS is a nice plug in North America's. Just keep it there. I'll just use Tesla SuC with CCS here in EU. It's not support 800V tech, right?
Mr. Guberman, you sound like you're completely clueless on this one. This battle IS NOT between GM, Ford, Rivian, and soon, the remaining auto makers. It's between the charging companies. Your last comment about charging your Android phone on a non-Apple charger was simply ridiculous. Ever hear of Qi wireless charging? Just making such a comment was an admission of your defeat AND that you have little idea with what's going on here. Bottom line, Ford and GM don't want to compete with Tesla to see who can make the best electric charger network, just who can make the best electric car. We need a North American Standard with the NACS connector or better. Tom won this one hands down.
Tom is right that the advantage to Tesla is that they no longer have to continue to retrofit the “magic connector.” The down side is that, when those thousands or millions of other EVs start using their network, they become the new EA because they have to now ensure that lots of non-Tesla EVs also have the same experience as Tesla EVS. HINT: They wont.
Tom you won because you are objective! Alex is bias via his hate of Tesla and Elon Musk. Alex hates Elon Musk and Tesla so when Tesla wins then Alex is frustrated. Now he is angry that GM and Ford went for Tesla's charging network by ACCEPTING Tesla's offer. To see Alex stating that Ford and GM begged Tesla for its network is telling a lot about his state of mind- in fact it is Tesla that offered that service a long time ago. He wishes charging companies or car companies would have beaten Tesla on the charging network and he is angry that Tesla won. He does not believe in the good intention of Tesla as he can't get passed his previous experience of being a first Tesla user and the bad service he experienced (of course Tesla was a baby company). He cannot recognize the evolution that Tesla did since then. It is like he is stuck with this hate that he developed being incapable to adapt to the change. And he suffered for it with his bad choice when he bought the ID4. It is sad to see Alex so much letting himself be bias against Tesla. He tries to hide it but it is still obvious via the emotion that transpires when he mentions Elon Mush or Tesla. Alex is emotionally a teenager.
People seem to be forgetting the fact that superchargers are designed to charge Teslas with a standardized charge port location. I really hope that part of the deal on 2025 for non Teslas with NACS ports comes with a standard port location as well. If not, supercharger crowding will be even worse as some of these cars will make one of the stalls unusable for other Teslas to charge. There is nothing we can do about current EVs using adapters though.
It seems, contrary to Alex's opinions, that this is good for Tesla owners. It likely means much more adoption of NACS charging sites, increasing accessibility, especially in currently less served areas.
Exactly what I was going to say! No one out, there is complaining that the gas nozzle is the exact same at every gas station everywhere… That’s just what we are used to, it should be no different with EV charging. I think the huge problem here is, it’s because Tesla made it, and it’s so much better. If ChargePoint would have made this connector first, and it was so great, everybody would be mad too… But in this instance, I think non-Tesla fans get butt hurt over anything Tesla does because they can’t except the fact that Tesla makes a good product. Tesla does not equal Elon. There are hundreds if not, thousands of other people who work for Tesla, who are likely the mastermind behind a lot of what is going on, but it’s always blame Elon for everything… It’s getting old.
The ultimate goal needs to be just that. We should be able go to any charger and simply charge. I have no problem with putting my card in the slot and charging. It doesn’t need to be overly complicated.
I don’t agree with Alex. I mostly charge my Tesla at home. I bought my Model 3 because Tesla is the leader & will still be around in 10 years. The Supercharger’s are just the icing on the cake.
I sometimes watch Alex and he is very entertaining, but he seems way off the mark this time. A Ford, GM or VW sold in Europe or Asia uses the local standards if they want anyone to buy their cars in that area. Likewise no one cares who wins standard battles (like VHS, Betamax, or BlueRay) or which is better... they just care that they can rent or buy a movie and it will play in their machine. I think it is great for all car owners to have twice the number of chargers available once someone "wins" the standards war. There is always growing pains with any change, but the long term benefit is for all EV owners. I don't think any car manufacturer or charging company cares what plug is used if they can sell their product.
Elon musk is a brilliant strategist! In 10 years most cars will be EV and these charging stations will be the perfect portal not only offer electrical services but also data services. with such brilliant minds at Tesla it will not be hard for them to monetize this as required meaning huge leverage and stickiness to the Tesla brand and Tesla product! Powered by TESLA! My guess is most other manufacturers will also license other Tesla products such as full self driving software AI models and so much more
I gave up watching E for Electric years ago when Alex did that stupid let me date multiple vehicles to figure out who I will take home and VW gave him a deal on their ID4 and he acted like the VW was just so amazing and just bashed Tesla. It was so unprofessional. Watching him seem so clueless about business with this charging standards and charging network topic just reminds me why I do not watch E for Electric. Alex seems to not see the amount of debt legacy builders have. VW funded EA due to being fined and they created a P.O.S. network that probably turned possible EV buyers off because of the nightmare charging stories from EV owners using EA chargers. Tesla has was theost reliable and smooth running networks and lucky for competitors Tesla has a mission of getting the world to EVs. Notice they are not saying squeezing every dollar out of everyone possible. Helping more EVs become appealing to own because of access to an amazing charging network helps to push ICE off a cliff. Because Tesla is so vertical, they make these charging stations way cheaper than the competition. GM, Ford, etc, would rather spend their resources on making the vehicles, because they are far behind in the EV production game. It sounds like the NACS adapter will be cheaper to install, partly due to Tesla not charging a profit on the NACS. Some think Tesla will just be giving the NACS connector to builders at no cost. Thinking that Tesla will recover that cost with charging profits. If you run a business and you are offered something that will make your products more appealing at little to no cost, it is logical to take it. As far as Tesla vehicles losing am advantage, not really. Their vehicles are usually better than the competition. Musk has said he is not afraid of the competition and I believe the Tesla team believes they will be fine. I do think the whole who dominates the charging network game will rule the world is an over statement. The Tesla brand will look better and they will connect with more consumers. Maybe an EV buyer using a non Tesla will find themselves more open to buying a Tesla because of how the charging network worked. I actually believe the Tesla virtual power plant trading platform is going generate more profit than the charging networks will in the long run. Tom did a great job as usual. The only way I will see debated between Tom and Alex is if it shows up on this channel. E for Electric just lost me and I see no reason to go back.
E for Electric has lost my subscription because he is so negative and always about competition in EV. Tesla will build more chargers and now there is a clear standard and other 3rd party chargers will also be used by Tesla drivers. Alex is not thinking about sustainability and the common goal all EV companies mission statements have. People who are negative should just use public transport because the EV technology is only going to get better for everyone!
Alex is wrong saying all the legacy car makers had so much money, because all of them went bankrupt (except Ford) and had to be bailed out by the government. Alex wants to replay the past, rather than look at the current situation. North America SHOULD HAVE a single standard, that's the best thing for everyone (customers and manufacturers).
I stopped watching Alex and E for Electric a while ago. Total shock jock and adds absolutely zero value to any conversation. He just sells views and no actual information. Likes to hear himself talk. Tom good job but people like this don’t deserve in audience.
Having actual working plugs for everyone is what is important.... Tesla keeps making more and more stuff. We will be fine. Read Tesla's mission statement and it all makes sense. I am a Tesla owner and I have the spark EV ... Alex says something is "so easy" to just "copy".... It takes a lot of people working, that is a hard thing. Pulling permits at thousands of locations and then installing. Man, the auto companies are into making cars, not a change to the industry. That has been obvious for the last 30 years since ev1/impact.
Alex is wrong about this. Tesla is shrewdly, turning their supercharger asset into a terrific business. Sort of like Amazon AWS. First, they’re now going to have revenue from their charger tech IP and there’s no reason they cannot start selling hardware too; white label supercharger units to the other networks. EV go and electrify America (and the others) have one valuable asset; permitted locations in place and high power tie-ins. The actual charger hardware is a relatively small part of the cost equation and they’re spending hundreds of million dollars in capex to replace they are failure prone units with a new generation of hopefully far better chargers, which will now support NACS. Tesla can go after a bunch of those hardware dollars. Finally there’s a huge government subsidies there to be taken. Tesla is turning their supercharger asset into a great company with terrific growth prospects.
Alex is so anti Tesla, he doesn't even see the engineering prowess of them. Legacy autos understood their limits, they know software is not their thing. Tesla is defacto standard from now on and works nicely. As a Tesla owner I am not worried about other cars, because they are too few and with government help, chargers will be more wide spread than now. Sometimes I wish I can charge from non Tesla chargers as well, but they are utterly crap and I don't bother. Hopefully there will be competition once the standard is chosen (charging speed, energy prices, other perks around chargers). Even Tesla will have to provide some incentives to own customers to use their chargers. Tesla also will have a better competition in making cars. Now they don't have that incentive and just raises the prices of their cars.
1.) From a Consumer point of view Nacs is better!, 2.) from a Vehicle Manufacturers point of view Nacs is better!, 3.) From a Tesla point of view, how is this not a good thing for them !!!! and just rewards for all their efforts towards making Ev's not only practical for most people !!! but a more desirable option for transportation for most people! , how is this not a win, win, win situation ???, I think the rest of the world will follow suit eventually! , the EU may be dragged kicking & screaming, but I think they will give in & follow suit eventually, and economy of scale & cost to consumer dictates that they should!.
Tom always love your take on the whole "State of Charge", I found this video hard to watch due to Alex's reductive reasoning. The simple case is the whole industry adopting a standard is good for everyone, including Tesla users. If other charging networks adopt the NACS as well it means Tesla drivers can use these DC fast chargers with better interoperability and with better reliability without adapters. Even just the ability to rock up to work/hotel/friends house and use the same level 2 chargers. I would love to hear more on your take of the importance of level 1 and 2
His misrepresentation of events from the very beginning is enough for me, so I'm out. But I appreciate you reminding me why I've never clicked on one of TH-cam's recommendations of his videos.
This video was actually difficult to watch because Alex is so clueless about the engineering, vertical integration, complex systems management and yet refuses to accept your answers.
Great coverage on this issue, thanks Tom and Alex. Do you think there is any chance Tesla will buy out EA for example and convert their stations to use the NACS? How would the cost of doing that compare to installing the same number of new Superchargers? VW might want to be rid of the maintenance cost and the poor reputation EA has in the public eye. Tesla may want the quick expansion of their network and the addition of 350kW EVSEs as they move toward more V4 Superchargers of their own. I don't know the financial aspects so the idea may not hold water at all. What do you all think? Cheers and drive safely.
if Tesla bought out EA, it would probably be for the site only - there is no way that Tesla would use an inferior product - they would replace all the chargers. And, what would be the point of that? Well, it could be that Tesla then has very little permitting paperwork to allow charging - it's already been done...and all this would speed the installation of more SCs in many more locations...(of course , philosophically, Tesla may have problems with giving money to a company like VW, but hey-ho...)
The biggest hurdle to jump when it comes to making a new DCFC operable is the tie-in to the electrical grid. With that already done at every EA site it would be relatively simple to pull out the SigNet (et al) chargers and throw in some Tesla V3 dispensers.
MUSK Would Buy the Property from EA, PLOW it Under, and Build his Own Facility that WORKS!
@@kendavis1198 I would have to agree with you on that. 😆
@@777Outrigger Thank you Sir.
Now I remember why I unsubscribed from Alex's channel.
Guy talking about 40 auto makers not being able to cooperate, and be rational, when there appears to be more conflict in his own head than in the industry. The sustainable future is no place for click bait, ranting, factless opinions, and shock value. Let's leave those channels behind as we focus on technology, cooperation and clean energy.
It's good to hear opposing views occasionally to check your feelings. Glad to have had that opportunity, but I'm good now.
Alex turn on Tesla ever since he didn't get an invite to a Tesla Event awhile back.
Thirty thumbs up to this comment so far, and I thought I was the only one.
1 million thumbs up to this comment.
Alex has become such a negative individual these days…
Absolutely true. He's become impossible to listen to. If he still has the ID.4, he complained about it so much but somehow he hates Tesla even more. He's a bitter person who cannot be somewhat objective.
Tom, Thanks for keeping things logical and not reacting to the overt rage Alex was trying to elicit. Based on this video, I can't see that Alex is providing any value to the EV market. As a Mach-E owner, I'm thrilled that I'll be able to drive electric to more locations. EA has been so unreliable that there are places I won't take the Mach-E. I think this is a win for Tesla. They just got all of the other automakers to give them a reason NOT to do Magic Doc. I've been wondering why more Magic Doc stations haven't rolled out given how well the NY stations seemed to be working.
Alex really gets gets catty about Tesla. He's entitled to his opinion but his channel became him complaining about Musk so much that I unsubbed. I'd rather listen to professional and impartial journalists report.
@@TheJoncic I did the same thing. I use to find him funny. Now I just roll my eyes when he speaks.
@@KineticEVI subscribed to Alex's channel for (years) but eventually gave up on whatever it was in his personal life that soured him on everything, in this case, everything surrounding EV's, and unsubscribed. He seems to think that nitpicking holes in everything is an attractive trait and not the misery arse experience it is in reality. Going out of your way to be unhappy can never be a great way to find satisfaction in life and all you'll really end up doing is alienating yourself from society at the end of the day; I have an elderly neighbour like that.
Great presentation Tom. Your comments were factually based and logical. The way you presented the facts made since to me why ford and gm decided to go with the tesla connectors. I wonder if there will be a way to retrofit the connectors on existing electric vehicles to tesla’s connectors.
I subscribe to State of Charge and not Alex’s channel, but underneath the rage headlines, Alex makes some very good points. The Tesla control of the network and connector (two separate but related things) could be risky for consumers.
Moreover, he is right about Ford and GM failing on the network building front, and that they were never serious about committing the money and time to building a good network in the first place. They took the lazy route and relied on EA, but they didn’t even invest in the network.
It could work out but we are putting a lot of trust in Tesla to now act responsibly and also expand their network to accommodate the new users
This guy Alex makes no sense! With his argument, Ford bowed to Good year for not making there own tires for their cars! And I can go on and on. Can't believe I use to subscribe to him.
Now I know why I dropped his channel a long time back, he’s painful. Tom, don’t invite him on your channel again.
Alex is terrible. Tom understands the subject so much better.
I stopped watching Alex a long time ago, watching this reminds me why. I just don't agree with him all that much and his points are baffling. Great job Tom.
I understand what you mean, I have still watched his videos in recent times, but its getting harder and harder to do so!, he seems to have such a b in his bonnet over Tesla ! it's not funny !, I know they are not perfect & their cars are not for everybody, but from a pure practicality, get you from A to B reliably with a charging system that just works! , they are pretty hard to beat !.
I can’t even watch Alex anymore. Thanks for keeping real Tom.
This Alex guy is so annoying
SO annoying.
Tom with do all my respect, you don't need Alex anymore and you don't need these drama on your channel. He is constantly being negative and going to nowhere with his opinions, he is offering nothing of value except sarcasm. You should work with Kyle from Out of Spec and Sandy Munro, people with common sense. I think you posted this here to finally take a decision, and I think you already did.
It's really a bummer how little Alex understands about all of this, both from a technical standpoint and from a business standpoint as well. You tried, Tom, and for that, I thank you.
The biggest issue is not necessarily the connector, it's the upkeep. Tesla has been a more conscientious provider. It has maintained its stations to be up & running at a very high level compared to its competitors. So the question should be: By utilizing the NACS standard, will you also do more to maintain your properties in order to keep them consumer-ready and friendly? Then the world will definitely be a better place.
I think the main problem with EA is that it was largely done by a company that had to do it as punishment. So there was little incentive to do it right.
Tom, you made very logical points. Alex was like a kid kicking and screaming to get what he wants. The facts are the facts and you had them. Tesla’s goal is to move the world to sustainable energy. That’s why they opened up their connector in charging networked other companies. I am a Tesla owner and can see this might be an issue for me charging on road trips in the short term. In the long term I think it’s good for everyone.
I think Elon is confident that his vehicles are better than most of the competitors.
I wonder if having the worlds best selling vehicle has something to do with it 😂
It's embarrassing to see Alex struggle to understand the most basic technological and economic realities.
I enjoy every other video from the SOC channel. Tom is endlessly logical and clear thinking and speaking.
As a previous subscriber of Alex’s, somewhere along the line, he went from fairly logical, to the flat earth thinker of for the EV industry. He wants to argue and be heard so badly, that he will find things to complain about that make no sense what so ever. Example in this chat is how he doesn’t understand why the old school automakers don’t make their own charging network. If you can’t think that one through, I think you’re in the wrong industry. You, sir, have not got your finger on the pulse of anything, much less the EV landscape.
Wow, listening to Alex essentially cry for 20 minutes was actually frustrating to listen to. hes stuck in his own mind and refuses to look at the situation objectively. Thank you Tom for being the voice of reason.
Agreed. I stopped watching his channel for that reason.
@@carrisr me too
E for his Ego
Alex doesn’t provide information, he pontificates.
Alex has a pretty low-level grasp on all things EV.
Alex has a problem with tesla regardless
This is why I can't watch Alex's videos anymore.. Cringe I believe it is called.
Tom: "Here is why CCS didn't work and why NACA is good for Tesla owners, non-Tesla owners."
Alex rebuttal: "I don't accept any of that".
It seemed like Alex used to have a bit more thoughtful responses...
Now he whines about everything.
I guess the whole industry bowed down to Volvo when they put seatbelts in their cars.
Gas cars use the same type of fuel tank opening and all the gas stations use the same pump handle. The closer electric cars approach this, the better it will be for the EV industry.
How Alex cannot see it?
The credit card analogy was super weak. Credit cards are all the same. The only thing different is the brand.
Alex please ... these big car manufacturers are NOT in the business to create infrastructure of any kind. Question: did they assist in making gasoline pumps and stations around the world? Answer no. So why would you expect them to now do this? It is not good business for them. ND. (no disrespect)
Had to skip Alex's intro. Unbelievably obnoxious style and audio. Tom, thanks for making a channel for adults.
Thank you. But Alex has a lot of followers also. More than I do, actually. So he must appeal to a lot of people also.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney his Channel has a different audience - more of entertainment rather than information based. He did(does?) have a nice sense of humour, but his unhidden dislike of anything Tesla almost always goes into misinformation territory. He certainly holds a grudge for long... now VW joined his dislike category. Not much of a first adopter mentality he claims to have.
One day I had to unsubscribed from Alex's program. He tries to be too funny and it is distracting. And in this discussion, he is rude.
He's becoming very hard to watch. Maybe if he finds his submissive girlfriend in Bangkok he'll be happier and easy to watch again.
“This is good for EV consumers… but is it good for Tesla drivers?”
Wait. Aren’t Tesla drivers EV drivers? Won’t they benefit from other networks adding NACS points and expanding the network? Y’all act like every other network is shutting down because of this and 20 million EVs will be lining up at Tesla chargers. It’s just not the case.
The stunning lack of understanding in this topic while simultaneously making grandiose statements is insulting to viewers.
When AMC puts in chargers at their movie theaters, I wonder what plug they're going to use now... And if that ends up being a free charge for say AMC A-List subscribers, that might make me more willing to sign back up for A-List. Does this work with J1772? Sure, but I'd love to just get out of my car, plug in, and not have to worry about an adapter every time. Especially as more places introduce chargers, and we end up charging more at more places.
Imagine a future where you stop to get dinner, and you charge for 2-3 hours. You have a doctors appointment, you charge for an hour or two. You're at work, you charge for 8 hours. You're at a movie, you charge 2-3 hours. You're out shopping, you charge for 2 hours.
The problem with Alex is that he is blinded by his hate on Tesla and he is not being objective anymore.
Tom, thanks for explaining this perfectly- the car manufacturers are in the business of making cars, not gas stations.
If the gas station standard changed to using a different handle, the car manufacturers had to adapt.
When Alex spoke about cell phone manufacturers, it's the same argument- the USB-C standard is already in place and the Android manufacturers said ok, we'll use this charging type. Apple did similar to Tesla with a proprietary charger type for many years but the consumers pushed back and said no, they want USB-C instead.
In the case of cars, Tesla won this round due to the $$ they put into the massive charging infrastructure which no other car manufacturer wanted to.
This video has certainly cemented why I subscribe to Tom and not to Alex 😊
I used to watch Alex to get a slightly different perspective on things, until he became completely intolerable.
Love your content Tom, it was always my favorite part of Alexs show.
Alex is not someone I enjoy listening to.
Alex has an axe to grind. Sad he is arguing for the argument sake. Tesla owner loosing advantage opening up supercharger only if no new ones are being build from this point forward. Also, think outside the box, why should Tesla make EV forever? Owning the charging network for all EV, integrate power delivery system with MegaPack & arbitrage power could be much more lucrative than EV manufacturing.
I am sorry but Alex has lost it. If tesla does anything he is against it. I am sorry has turned so negative.
Sorry - can't take him more than 6 minutes. Moving on.
Sorry, watched till you said Alex from E for Electric. Not interested in his opinion (or paid view) towards anything....
Hahaha Alex! The guy only relies on his Tesla clisckbait for clicks. Also this is the guy that said his Chevy Volt is the best electric car out there 🤣😂😂.
Well, the Volt was a really great car 11 years ago.
watching this video reminds me of why I unsubscribed from E for Electric.
WOW! For a guy with his own EV channel, he truly seems clueless. He whines about how bad CCS is and doesn’t understand why everyone wants to switch to NACS. YOU MADE YOUR CASE? You rambled on and contradicted yourself numerous times. Smartest thing US manufacturers could do.
Tom, you are quite right in suggesting that the followers of your channel and Alex’s channel might be different. Some years ago. I used to follow E for Electric but soon found myself in strong disagreement with Alex and commenting on that to such a degree that he asked me to unsubscribe which I did. Following that I still came across him as Sandy Munro was having discussions with him on various subjects for a period of time - thankfully that seems to have stopped now. I still found Alex to have strong opinions with incomplete information. On his channel arguments were portrayed as ending with a difference of opinion with either position being equally plausible. Generally speaking, I found Alex to be talking as if he was a technical expert when he clearly was not. To make matters worse, his videos frequently employed “click bait”. I am generally the easy-going type, but I could not tolerate Alex. In the end, I don’t consider him to be a person of integrity.
I am a long-time subscriber of your channel. I generally have no comment to make beyond a well-deserved thank you for researching this or that and reporting your findings. I have never had occasion to point out some obvious flaw in your reporting.
To the matter at hand for this video. My first reaction when I heard about the agreement with Ford was surprise. Clearly, the supercharger network represented a huge competitive advantage (a so-called financial moat) for Tesla. Making a significant portion of this network available to Ford gives up that competitive advantage. When Tesla (Elon) explained why they had agreed to this - it accelerated to move toward sustainable transportation - it all became clear. This was Tesla acting with integrity on their mission instead of trying to leverage the advantage that Tesla had gained by striking out alone and building out this charging network first. If Ford or GM has built out a charger network, I am not sure that they would be willing to share it as easily.
I expect it will not be too much longer before we see FSD being licensed to other manufacturers. FSD will revolutionize the transportation industry. Although it also represents a financial moat, there is too much at stake (lives saved) that it would not be licensed to others. Failure to do so would, IMO, result in regulatory action to make it available to all EV manufacturers.
Alex, Alex, Alex...Listening to him means there is 20 minutes of my life I can't get back.
Alex just has a problem with Tesla, Tom you are 100% correct. The NACS is a better connector and system.
Wow. Alex is all ego and nothing else. I have an Ioniq 5 and this is cool news to me. Better consumer experience is the most important thing. Not stressing about "bowing down" and shit lol.
Don’t do anymore work with this clown Tom. I have recently unsubscribed form his channel. All he wants to do is argue because he’s mad at the whole industry. He no longer has anything valid to say, just wants to argue with everyone. I will be disappointed if you continue to interact with him at all.
@bonr407: I share your opinion about Alex; he has been on a bit of a downward spiral of late, burning bridges behind him. I will stay with him for a little longer, however, to see if he doesn’t improve his attitude. 🧐 He has had good insight before.
I reached that conclusion 4 (5?) years ago.
I don't ever really take anything Alex says seriously anymore. I've seen enough of his videos to tell that his blind hatred of Elon Musk seems to contaminate most of his rhetoric regarding Tesla. He seems more interested in discrediting Elon Musk than he is in providing current/prospective EV owners with any useful information or analyses.
This is EXACTLY the reason I quit Alex channel. He just doesn’t want to see or hear the facts anymore.
Tom, that was brave and you did an amazing job. It ain't easy arguing with a brick wall.
I don't know what Alex is trying to argue. He seems to be all over the place as to what kind of point he's trying to make out of except defending his love for Tesla. Alex failed to understand that having NACS an industry standard is a huge win for North American EV consumers. Tesla in long run is a win. Tesla is also an electric company. They can continue to build more supercharging stations, not to menton EA, chargepoing and EVgo will include NACS plug. Tom seem to be the intelligent one on this debate. Thanks Tom for keeping it real. Alex is definitely annoying to watch and hear him speak. For sure i am NOT going to sub his channel.
Tesla’s mission statement is to promote sustainability and get us off oil. Opening NACS to everyone will help achieve that goal.
GM and Ford do not want to accelerate the transition to Electric Vehicles that is why they haven't and don't want to build there own charging networks, doing so would only accelerate their own demise! But now they see that if they don't have charging available they are in even deeper trouble because the tipping point is already past so the only option left is to join in with Tesla.
Tom, I 100% agree with you. NACS adoption will help transition to EVs sooner, improving the experience for all EV owners in North America.
The goal in the long run is simple, we want every EV to be able to charge at any charger.
I think this move is good for the industry.
I also think it is good for Tesla as another revenue source. This is also in line with their stated goal of replacing ICE with EV.
I jumped from 2:00 to your summary as that was as much of Alex as I could stand.
I think this removes an advantage that Tesla had, but this will only hurt them when they get to the point that they cannot sell all the cars they make.
not a fan of that guy. love tom though.
Alex is all about hyperbolic clickbait these days. Thanks Tom for some reason
He does seem bitter in every video I see him in these days :( Hopefully he'll relax if he's in Thailand now.
Stop whining incessantly, Alex! Elon’s motivation is to increase profits. Tesla is required to open up its chargers to non-Tesla EVs in order to access billions of dollars of federal funding for infrastructure upgrades. Money makes the monkey dance!
As Tom said, there are several reasons Tesla's network is the most reliable: they build the car, they build the charger, they build the software. There's no interference from outsiders!! Elon CONTROLS the infrastructure so there's no contamination of any type which could poison the customers’ experience!!!
And, Alex’s bank card works in Bangkok because it took more than a decade to work out the bugs for interoperability to occur between/among tens of millions of cardholders and tens of thousands of banks. I know because I worked in the financial transactions processing industry in the ‘90s and early 2000s when sharing between ATM networks and bank cards became a reality!! There's much more to say!!
I stopped watching Alex anymore because he's gotten so anti Tesla and anti United States now. He's so negative about everything now.
But why wouldn't we want one standard for a charging connector? Of course we would! And if Tesla gets money from the Feds for opening up Supercharges to other EV's, they will triple the Supercharger installations quickly.
Alex, Tesla isn't controlling the charging standard. They opened it up to everyone! This is a good thing, stop hating! Your logic failed and Tom made so much more sense. You completely missed the point that Tom said, the legacy auto makers don't want to make the fuel. My God, why is that so hard you so grasp?! No car company made the fuel stations until Tesla, that was their plan and not the direction other companies wanted to go. It doesn't mean they failed. If you opened a hot dog stand, are you also supposed to have hamburgers? Just because you don't agree with their business decisions you call them failures. Come on! Bangkok can have you!
Sorry Tom but I had to thumbs down this video because Alex annoyed me so much.
As an EV6 owner with a J1772/CCS1 system, I'm ecstatic that the Tesla NACS will now be the new standard for EV charging in the USA. Having used Tesla chargers on my brother's Model S, I can tell you it is a way better charging system. However, ALL manufacturers need to ensure that seamless plug and play works on all EVs going forward.
Not to sound to harsh, but this discussion reminded me why I quit watching Alex's channel.
My personal opinion is that Tesla is the only one doing it right, they are putting a LOT of chargers in vs a few. I believe the BBB Bill only requires 3 Charger per location. That is just not acceptable to me. It should be min 10 or more per location (yes I know there is a lot involved). We need setups in places like Rest Stops or like Gas Stations on the highways that have dozens of chargers. I think charging is going to get worse before it get better. One take away from this is that even if EA and the others change their connectors to NACS they still will have the same issues that they are having due to the implementation of the CCS Standard. That to me is really what needs to be addresses ASAP.
Since this was taped, Volvo and VW have both announced that they are looking into adopting the NACS for their Nth American vehicles.
Alex completely misses the point of Tesla opening up the charging standard and network. From Tesla's viewpoint, their entire raison d'être is to accelerate the swift transition to clean sustainable transportation and energy. Opening up to other automotive manufacturers could stimulate this and, (eventually), provide another revenue stream for Tesla Utility or whatever they're calling Tesla's new energy generation and storage utility company; Tesla has announced that they will be locating many more charging stations at shopping malls and they'll co-locate solar canopies with them. That adds up to a lot of juice generation and consumption if all manufacturers' EV's can charge there too.
I've long thought that just as the - BOGOF or Buy One, Get One Free advertisment has become ubiquitous, so too, will SCS or Stop, Charge, Shop.
He's a paid shill.
If you have watched E for Electric very much you already know that Alex has a bias against Tesla.....If you start with that bias, you're going to be trying to point out how Tesla has fucked up no matter how strong the argument is against you...Thats what you got in this debate...
He's really gotten so negative and I used to like his channel. His fans probably got so fed up with him they forced him to leave the U.S., lol.
One should never have regrets doing the right thing. CCS totally sucks. Apart from being bulky and cumbersome the real problem is that you have a 50/50 chance of it working. The design, components and reliability of CCS are just horrible.
Alex doesn't seem to have a clue how all this works to be going off on a rant of this level. This has never been about the connector, it has been about 100's of manufacturers all believing they know better than everyone else making some piece of the puzzle 'better' and the software and the interface to the cars is a complete mess
This Alex guy is wearing me out!
Tesla wants the world to move to electric vehicles. Doh. With the bad charging experience for people that have other EVs, EV adoption will slow. With increased adoption of more EVs, Tesla will sell more EVs because many more people will want to buy EVs (and Teslas are better, more efficient, etc.). Tesla is not stupid. Alex is wrong.
Alex seems really tone deaf during this. The whole point of Tesla doing this is to accelerate the transition to EVs. If we have both CCS and NACS, it will take a lot longer the transition as it will be harder to build charging infrastructure for two connectors. There are also some people that will never buy Tesla and want an EV that is easier to charge so this will benefit them. While this won't have a major impact on Tesla owners, it will be helpful to EV owners at large as Tesla will be able to make more money to allow them to install more changers and build out the network for everyone.
I don’t understand Alex’s opposition. And the comment he just made about smartphone companies disproves his point. Prime example, Apple designs the iPhone but buys components from Samsung and other companies to produce the it. Automakers switching NACS is a huge win for the industry overall because it introduces a standard that every EV will use, which in the long run means Tesla will likely sell more EVs because there will be much wider network of chargers. Similarly, there is only one standard for gas pumps nozzles, which allows automakers to focus on just creating good cars and not also trying build out their own fueling stations.
Alex is wrong.
I enjoy your channel put Alex is annoying.
Dang! I had unsubscribed to Alex "quichot" for a reason....
NCAS is a nice plug in North America's.
Just keep it there. I'll just use Tesla SuC with CCS here in EU.
It's not support 800V tech, right?
Thank you Tom, for your common sense!
Mr. Guberman, you sound like you're completely clueless on this one. This battle IS NOT between GM, Ford, Rivian, and soon, the remaining auto makers. It's between the charging companies. Your last comment about charging your Android phone on a non-Apple charger was simply ridiculous. Ever hear of Qi wireless charging? Just making such a comment was an admission of your defeat AND that you have little idea with what's going on here. Bottom line, Ford and GM don't want to compete with Tesla to see who can make the best electric charger network, just who can make the best electric car. We need a North American Standard with the NACS connector or better. Tom won this one hands down.
Alex doesn’t use any logic. He just wants to say “someone just have a zoom meeting … and poof it just works… 🤦♀️ “
Tom is right that the advantage to Tesla is that they no longer have to continue to retrofit the “magic connector.” The down side is that, when those thousands or millions of other EVs start using their network, they become the new EA because they have to now ensure that lots of non-Tesla EVs also have the same experience as Tesla EVS. HINT: They wont.
Tom you won because you are objective! Alex is bias via his hate of Tesla and Elon Musk. Alex hates Elon Musk and Tesla so when Tesla wins then Alex is frustrated. Now he is angry that GM and Ford went for Tesla's charging network by ACCEPTING Tesla's offer. To see Alex stating that Ford and GM begged Tesla for its network is telling a lot about his state of mind- in fact it is Tesla that offered that service a long time ago. He wishes charging companies or car companies would have beaten Tesla on the charging network and he is angry that Tesla won. He does not believe in the good intention of Tesla as he can't get passed his previous experience of being a first Tesla user and the bad service he experienced (of course Tesla was a baby company). He cannot recognize the evolution that Tesla did since then. It is like he is stuck with this hate that he developed being incapable to adapt to the change. And he suffered for it with his bad choice when he bought the ID4. It is sad to see Alex so much letting himself be bias against Tesla. He tries to hide it but it is still obvious via the emotion that transpires when he mentions Elon Mush or Tesla. Alex is emotionally a teenager.
People seem to be forgetting the fact that superchargers are designed to charge Teslas with a standardized charge port location.
I really hope that part of the deal on 2025 for non Teslas with NACS ports comes with a standard port location as well. If not, supercharger crowding will be even worse as some of these cars will make one of the stalls unusable for other Teslas to charge. There is nothing we can do about current EVs using adapters though.
It seems, contrary to Alex's opinions, that this is good for Tesla owners. It likely means much more adoption of NACS charging sites, increasing accessibility, especially in currently less served areas.
This is what I was thinking also.
IT SHOULD BE LIKE A GAS STATION EVERY CAR OR TRUCK CAN FILL UP.👍🏾👍🏾
Exactly what I was going to say! No one out, there is complaining that the gas nozzle is the exact same at every gas station everywhere… That’s just what we are used to, it should be no different with EV charging. I think the huge problem here is, it’s because Tesla made it, and it’s so much better. If ChargePoint would have made this connector first, and it was so great, everybody would be mad too… But in this instance, I think non-Tesla fans get butt hurt over anything Tesla does because they can’t except the fact that Tesla makes a good product. Tesla does not equal Elon. There are hundreds if not, thousands of other people who work for Tesla, who are likely the mastermind behind a lot of what is going on, but it’s always blame Elon for everything… It’s getting old.
The ultimate goal needs to be just that. We should be able go to any charger and simply charge. I have no problem with putting my card in the slot and charging. It doesn’t need to be overly complicated.
I don’t agree with Alex. I mostly charge my Tesla at home. I bought my Model 3 because Tesla is the leader & will still be around in 10 years. The Supercharger’s are just the icing on the cake.
Well, now you have whole bunch of your adversaries dipping their dirty fingers into the icing! WHY???
I sometimes watch Alex and he is very entertaining, but he seems way off the mark this time. A Ford, GM or VW sold in Europe or Asia uses the local standards if they want anyone to buy their cars in that area. Likewise no one cares who wins standard battles (like VHS, Betamax, or BlueRay) or which is better... they just care that they can rent or buy a movie and it will play in their machine. I think it is great for all car owners to have twice the number of chargers available once someone "wins" the standards war. There is always growing pains with any change, but the long term benefit is for all EV owners. I don't think any car manufacturer or charging company cares what plug is used if they can sell their product.
Thanks Tom, Alex is absolutely butt hurt and unwatchable
🤔
I see a theme developing in the comments....
😉
Elon musk is a brilliant strategist! In 10 years most cars will be EV and these charging stations will be the perfect portal not only offer electrical services but also data services. with such brilliant minds at Tesla it will not be hard for them to monetize this as required meaning huge leverage and stickiness to the Tesla brand and Tesla product! Powered by TESLA! My guess is most other manufacturers will also license other Tesla products such as full self driving software AI models and so much more
I gave up watching E for Electric years ago when Alex did that stupid let me date multiple vehicles to figure out who I will take home and VW gave him a deal on their ID4 and he acted like the VW was just so amazing and just bashed Tesla. It was so unprofessional.
Watching him seem so clueless about business with this charging standards and charging network topic just reminds me why I do not watch E for Electric.
Alex seems to not see the amount of debt legacy builders have. VW funded EA due to being fined and they created a P.O.S. network that probably turned possible EV buyers off because of the nightmare charging stories from EV owners using EA chargers.
Tesla has was theost reliable and smooth running networks and lucky for competitors Tesla has a mission of getting the world to EVs. Notice they are not saying squeezing every dollar out of everyone possible.
Helping more EVs become appealing to own because of access to an amazing charging network helps to push ICE off a cliff.
Because Tesla is so vertical, they make these charging stations way cheaper than the competition. GM, Ford, etc, would rather spend their resources on making the vehicles, because they are far behind in the EV production game.
It sounds like the NACS adapter will be cheaper to install, partly due to Tesla not charging a profit on the NACS. Some think Tesla will just be giving the NACS connector to builders at no cost. Thinking that Tesla will recover that cost with charging profits.
If you run a business and you are offered something that will make your products more appealing at little to no cost, it is logical to take it.
As far as Tesla vehicles losing am advantage, not really. Their vehicles are usually better than the competition. Musk has said he is not afraid of the competition and I believe the Tesla team believes they will be fine.
I do think the whole who dominates the charging network game will rule the world is an over statement.
The Tesla brand will look better and they will connect with more consumers. Maybe an EV buyer using a non Tesla will find themselves more open to buying a Tesla because of how the charging network worked.
I actually believe the Tesla virtual power plant trading platform is going generate more profit than the charging networks will in the long run.
Tom did a great job as usual. The only way I will see debated between Tom and Alex is if it shows up on this channel. E for Electric just lost me and I see no reason to go back.
Who's Alan?
@@Gweeper64 Alan should Tom, but I was texting and working at the same time. My customer was Alan. Multi tasking is not my strong suit. 😄
You’re right, I don’t subscribe to that channel and this reminded me I will never go back.
E for Electric has lost my subscription because he is so negative and always about competition in EV. Tesla will build more chargers and now there is a clear standard and other 3rd party chargers will also be used by Tesla drivers. Alex is not thinking about sustainability and the common goal all EV companies mission statements have. People who are negative should just use public transport because the EV technology is only going to get better for everyone!
Alex is wrong saying all the legacy car makers had so much money, because all of them went bankrupt (except Ford) and had to be bailed out by the government. Alex wants to replay the past, rather than look at the current situation. North America SHOULD HAVE a single standard, that's the best thing for everyone (customers and manufacturers).
I hope Alex finds happiness in Bangkok.
I stopped watching Alex and E for Electric a while ago. Total shock jock and adds absolutely zero value to any conversation. He just sells views and no actual information. Likes to hear himself talk. Tom good job but people like this don’t deserve in audience.
Having actual working plugs for everyone is what is important.... Tesla keeps making more and more stuff. We will be fine. Read Tesla's mission statement and it all makes sense. I am a Tesla owner and I have the spark EV ... Alex says something is "so easy" to just "copy".... It takes a lot of people working, that is a hard thing. Pulling permits at thousands of locations and then installing. Man, the auto companies are into making cars, not a change to the industry. That has been obvious for the last 30 years since ev1/impact.
Alex is wrong about this. Tesla is shrewdly, turning their supercharger asset into a terrific business. Sort of like Amazon AWS. First, they’re now going to have revenue from their charger tech IP and there’s no reason they cannot start selling hardware too; white label supercharger units to the other networks. EV go and electrify America (and the others) have one valuable asset; permitted locations in place and high power tie-ins. The actual charger hardware is a relatively small part of the cost equation and they’re spending hundreds of million dollars in capex to replace they are failure prone units with a new generation of hopefully far better chargers, which will now support NACS. Tesla can go after a bunch of those hardware dollars. Finally there’s a huge government subsidies there to be taken. Tesla is turning their supercharger asset into a great company with terrific growth prospects.
Alex is so anti Tesla, he doesn't even see the engineering prowess of them. Legacy autos understood their limits, they know software is not their thing. Tesla is defacto standard from now on and works nicely. As a Tesla owner I am not worried about other cars, because they are too few and with government help, chargers will be more wide spread than now. Sometimes I wish I can charge from non Tesla chargers as well, but they are utterly crap and I don't bother. Hopefully there will be competition once the standard is chosen (charging speed, energy prices, other perks around chargers). Even Tesla will have to provide some incentives to own customers to use their chargers. Tesla also will have a better competition in making cars. Now they don't have that incentive and just raises the prices of their cars.
1.) From a Consumer point of view Nacs is better!, 2.) from a Vehicle Manufacturers point of view Nacs is better!, 3.) From a Tesla point of view, how is this not a good thing for them !!!! and just rewards for all their efforts towards making Ev's not only practical for most people !!! but a more desirable option for transportation for most people! , how is this not a win, win, win situation ???, I think the rest of the world will follow suit eventually! , the EU may be dragged kicking & screaming, but I think they will give in & follow suit eventually, and economy of scale & cost to consumer dictates that they should!.
I think this was a great discussion and I agree it was a smart move by Tesla. I hope BMW follows, for their US sales.
Tom always love your take on the whole "State of Charge", I found this video hard to watch due to Alex's reductive reasoning. The simple case is the whole industry adopting a standard is good for everyone, including Tesla users. If other charging networks adopt the NACS as well it means Tesla drivers can use these DC fast chargers with better interoperability and with better reliability without adapters. Even just the ability to rock up to work/hotel/friends house and use the same level 2 chargers. I would love to hear more on your take of the importance of level 1 and 2
His misrepresentation of events from the very beginning is enough for me, so I'm out. But I appreciate you reminding me why I've never clicked on one of TH-cam's recommendations of his videos.
This video was actually difficult to watch because Alex is so clueless about the engineering, vertical integration, complex systems management and yet refuses to accept your answers.
But, in a way, he helped Tom formulate great answers !
Too funny watching Alex’s head explode over why Tesla would open up the NACS… It’s to advance the mission Alex, READ THE MISSION STATEMENT
Yes!
I quit following Alex for a reason, I don’t know what his problem is. He does not make any sense, and really, you should stay away from his channel.