ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 เม.ย. 2023
- This is a story that I heard about a long time ago, and seems to be almost an urban legend in the magic community at this point. A while back I decided to make it into a video, as despite being pretty interesting and almost 2 decades old, it seems nobody has done it yet. Mostly just a cool story I felt like sharing, this took me quite a long time to make, so I hope you like it :)
I know I pronounced LSV's name wrong. I wasn't aware of the difference between louis and luis until after I had already finished most of the video unfortunately :/
There is one other small error in the editing but if you find it you get a gold star or smth I'm calling it an easter egg at this point.
Also sorry for the low mic quality, I only have a webcam microphone.
--------------------------------
The sources for information in this video were mostly my memory of recountings of it irl, and this article: ultimateguard.com/de/blog/win...
Footage used:
Random images and video of LSV and mtg tournaments were used throughout.
All card images were sourced from scryfall.
One of the rules was on scryfall, but the one about not changing your deck is in some pdf I went digging for, I don’t have the link anymore sadly.
The decklist images were made using the MTGGoldfish visual view.
Table flip clip is from this: • Francis Plays Magic th...
The clip of a bunch of cards floating around is the intro to the tap tap concede podcast by loading ready run
The 2 movie clips are from The Matrix and Rounders respectively (idk i just wanted some vaguely poker related footage and that’s what I found on a google search, haven’t seen the movie.)
The MTGO gameplay is downloaded from an Andrea Mengucci video. (it’s just standing in as random gifts storm gameplay, refer to the note on screen during it.)
Funny chess guy falling over link: • Polish National Team M...
Fast explaining guy is just fast explaining guy meme idk his name or the original source.
Music:
Veritas - Impulsive
Lemmino - Cipher
Jake Chudnow - Moon Men (instrumental)
Home - We're Finally Landing
Blazo - Natural Green
--------------------------------
Credits:
Writing, editing - Ski Freak
Thumbnail - Xefas
& thanks to everyone who gave feedback on the video before release!
--------------------------------
Metadata:
#MTG #magicthegathering - บันเทิง
Join the Discord server - discord.gg/sRB54zg
Follow me on Twitch - twitch.tv/that_ski_freak
This is a story that I heard about a long time ago, and seems to be almost an urban legend in the magic community at this point. A while back I decided to make it into a video, as despite being pretty interesting and almost 2 decades old, it seems nobody has done it yet. Mostly just a cool story I felt like sharing, this took me quite a long time to make, so I hope you like it!
I enjoyed this lookback - really well done, and I can verify the details are as accurate as I remember them =)
I got used to watch you fishing for your wincons in cube. Interesting to see this trend in your constructed decks also 😂
Legendary comment
This is why I always make a combo player play it out. Being matched against lotus field so many times in pioneer has taught me that about 25% of the time they don't know how to pull it off and I'll be able to win.
@@Ski_FreakTo be fair, it's a lot more relaxed doing the combo on MTGO than it is on paper
Most combo decks have deterministic wins so perhaps save yourself the time if you recognize it to be the case.
@@KILOBify Yeah a lot of comments seem to be missing that there is a bit of a decision tree to this, it's not always just 'play it out 100% of the time bro!'
To be fair though, often in fnm players can fuck up even if they already did it properly once and it's deterministic xd
As a lotus field player. Thank you for letting me combo off. 80% or more of my opponents concede after I choose the cards for ultimatum and I just wanna do the whole combo timer be damned🥹🥹
Except he literally played out the entire combo. The last card is deterministic and how would you expect LSV of all people to "forget" the critical card in the deck. It's like Seth playing 100 rhinos and forgetting the actual rhino.
After seeing Luis pass tendrils in vintage cube and say ''we don't need a wincon'', then winning all of his matches with the siege gang commander he got at pick 45 IN A STORM DECK, I'd be willing to believe he trolled everyone there and purposefully did not pack tendrils.
Yeah I mean he could be lying to us, it’s not impossible, I didn’t feel like delving into that possibility in the video because it doesn’t really have much impact or evidence. I’d also believe it turned into a meme after this occasion so he just does it time to time, also purely speculation though.
I’ve watched a lot of LSV vintage cube, but I don’t think I’ve seen that one. Any chance you have the link?
I recall it was from some years ago. He made infinite mana and killed with SGC plus Corpse Dance
th-cam.com/video/1giVKVViaM4/w-d-xo.html
Never sleep on the Siege Gang Commander
I remember playing in a modern tourney with a mono-black devotion deck against jeskai Nahiri control when she was all the rage. Beat a guy G1, and then did some sideboarding and then shuffled up for G2. He was far ahead and I had nothing really going on since he had such a good grip on the game. I couldn't stop Nahiri and my opponent popped her ult. He hesitates to give me time to concede, but I simply shrugged. I find that people conceding to the attack trigger is not nearly as gratifying as watching the trigger actually resolve and seeing things go to the graveyard. Not that it mattered, cause I was burned a few times by lightning helixes and was at 14. But he earned it, so I gave it to him. He looks through his deck... then looks even more.... then looks again. Then he checks his sideboard and facepalms. Emrakul, the wincon, was sideboarded out. Whether an accident or a lapse of judgement, he actually didn't have it and was forced to grab a snapcaster to Serum Visions and then return it to hand after swinging a mighty 2 damage. He only had three snapcasters, so after his recurring damage was killed off, I was able to grapple control over the game again with one good gray merchant resolving, put me out of range and gave me the win.
Sometimes it pays to let your opponent have their moment. You just might get one in return.
In chess you can trick your opponent into a stalemate from completely lost positions if you know what you are doing and they aren’t specifically looking to avoid stalemate.
Mike Long was the originator of this. He was playing Prosperous Bloom vs Mark Justice in a final and actually sided out Drain Life, his only wincon game 2 as he saw how fast Justice conceded to the combo in Game 1 and he didn't have to show the drain. Next level mind games.
To be fair, it being Mike Long, he still had at least 6 drains in arms reach.
My favorite one I saw was at an old legacy GP the pair playing next to me, one of the players was playing a dragonstorm combo deck and had gotten all the way up to 6-(1 or 2 cant remember at this point it was so long ago) without having a single dragon in his mainboard because his opponents would always scoop to a dragonstorm with a storm count of 4-5. It was giga brain because of the fact that he didnt need to run 8 copies of effectively dead draws in his deck and could run draw and ritual spells instead, making the deck vastly more streamlined. Apparently the only match he had lost was when his opponent made him play it out and he conceded on the spot lol
Lol that’s pretty funny, definitely a better deck to do this strat with if your goal is to do it on purpose
I saw someone pull that at a FNM back in the day, too. Generally speaking a player would concede to dragonstorm with 4+ storm if the storm player didn't have any dragons in hand. Dude would sub out the dragons in sideboard games.
While not for the reason in this video, I always make players play out the entire combo, but just the first time. Once my opponent has represented that they know precisely how it works and that they do have the pieces to do so, I’m fine conceding to it. The only time I would consider not having the opponent play it out is if I am playing a very slow deck (example: I used to play lantern control in modern pre-Mox Opal ban) that regularly goes to time and needs every second available.
It’s so crazy how mind games are such a good strategy in these games
LSV is absolutely galaxy brain. A year or two ago, i was watching some of his MODO VOD's, and he was playing a Bolas's Citadel deck, and at one point he says "im dead on board.".
Two turns later, "oh, i think i got 'em". Never give up!
The fun thing about CCG's is that even at the top level, there are a lot of people who are bad about recognizing the right things.
You can get a phenomenal number of people to bite on obvious nonsense just by representing a strong state.
Fantastic video! Nice and concise, includes all of the information necessary to understand the win, and well edited :)
I loved the video format. That was a really cool story I hadn’t heard before. can’t wait for more of your videos!
1 video deep and this channel is already going to be a mythic rare channel.
Wow great video, super high quality with a dope story. I love learning about old competitive magic
I used to play YuGiOh, and I have a deck that makes a very infamous and long combo in order to get basically infinite resources for summoning (The deck is called Six Samurai). The thing is that I didn't have those "final" cards and I used to play out just the combo and most of the people would just resign mid combo. This video reminded me of those good days haha
AYOOOO THE MAD LAD DID IT
When that Summoning Salt music jicks in you know it's going to be good 😎
Always love me an LSV story, legendary player
WotC used to have "fantasy pro tour" picks similar to filling out a bracket for March Madness. Who do you think will win? Who will top 8? What card will be played the most? Etc. For the winning player choice, LSV was banned as a choice, because he's just too consistent. This is the best way I can find to explain just how legendary he is.
Also VSauce music.
I was shocked to find that this is your only video so far, it's so well put together and informatively interesting. You did a really good job and I'm subscribing in case you decide to do more
This was really well made! Can’t wait to see more!
LSV has gone on record as saying that this bluff was not intentional, he forgot to but Tendrils in his sideboard.
Years ago, I made the top 8 in a big local tournament. I was playing burn and my opponent was playing Klark-clan Ironworks. Ironworks was a very new deck at the time and it was the first time I was playing against it. I took game 1 and my opponent took game 2. During game three, it appeared he got his combo just as I had him down to 1 life. He looks at me and says, "I got it. Wanna wait 15 for me to ping you down to zero?" I thought to myself, 'Why drag it out? If he's got, he's got it. May as well just concede." So, I shook his hand and conceded.
As I was packing up, another player walked up to our table and asked my opponent to show the combo. After a bit of back-and-forth between the two, my opponent agreed. Turned out, his combo fizzled and he didn't actually 'have it'. But, since I conceded and packed up already, it was too late to go back. This is a classic example of why you should always wait to see if your opponent has the combo--especially if you're not certain with how the deck works. Not everyone in this game is honest and it's up to us honest players to keep the dishonest ones in check
Luis actually explains the story in person in one of the old cfb top 10 vids with TSG.
If this is you're first video I'm excited for what the future is going to bring. Banger video my man.
Always view the combo in full the first time. Opponent doesn't get to win unless they can show their work.
Just wanted to say I play both Trackmania and MTG a load and I always noticed a load of your maps have MTG card names haha. Love the content!
Ayy Ski Freak, really nice to see you making some MTG content! Great video, keep em coming!
Amazing content. I would love to see more videos like this!
I was at this event, at Eudemonia in Berkeley, CA. Eudo’s mid-aughts vintage scene was incredible-25 person tournaments stocked with ringers. Miss those days!
They shut the store down permanently a few years ago unfortunately.
This happened at eudo?? Must've heard it a dozen times. Never knew it happened at my local store.
Would love to see more vids in this style, there's something spicy cooking at this channel!
cool video! I also enjoyed Ibai at the end
Nice Summoning Salt tunes. Lol. Great video!
The algorithm has chosen you.
And rightly so! Great video.
What an awesome story, great video!
Great vid. Can't believe this is your first upload. Props
I made a bunch of videos for my trackmania maps so I already knew the basics of the software, and I made a couple scripted + edited videos already for trackmania. The first one I was happy with for my first video, and the second one I actually think is good, so I had a bit of practice before making this. Still a long way to go through! Lots of people make such cool videos on youtube.
Rather than demonic tutor, you typically get Dark Ritual with Black lotus to pay for the costs of casting Recoup and Will from the graveyard, then casting Black lotus and ritual from the yard to then cast a tutor, such as the Gifts ungiven from the yard, to find what you need to find tendrils.
It was lsv who said that demonic tutor was part of the pile, I decided to take his word on that one since I haven't played the deck, but this might make more sense.
@@Ski_Freak - I played with LSV in Sacramento, Carmichael, and Davis California in 2006-2008. Maybe it was DT in 2005 when the story happened. It was Dark Ritual when I began playing vintage. The deck split into 4 Mana Drain Gifts and 4 Dark Ritual gifts. 4 ritual was faster and could "go broken" a lot more often, but Mana Drain Gifts was resilient and could cast gifts on your own turn off the free mana from Mana Drain.
I ended up defeating LSV for a Mox Ruby with my Mono Black Null Rod Aggro deck in Carmichael CA, and our good friend Ricky Sidhir won an Ancestral Recall in another event with his KAT deck. KAT = Kill-ATog, an anti GAT (Gush ATog) build.
The Gifts package of Recoup+ Will + Dark Ritual + Black Lotus was essentially the best package.
1 Lotus
2 Dark Ritual
3 flash back recoup
4 Yawg Will
5 Black Lotus
6 Dark Ritual
That is 6 spells and enough mana to go off based on your hand and graveyard.
When I began, the deck even played one Empty the Warrens. Just casting mana rocks and Rebuild and/or Chain of vapor and recast the rocks was often enough to put 10+ Goblins in play and just made the game a 1-2 turn clock and was enough.
Wow! Amazing story. Would love to hear more similar to it =)
@@RafaelAAMerlo - Okay, here is a fun story and then a bragging style story:
1. Related to your video, and after having become friends of a sort with LSV, i went to the Lorowyn pre-release (I think that was it) shortly after he won the 2007 Nationals but before he won the Grand Prix. He won with Teachings control and Arcanis the Omnipotent. There was an article with his face photo-shopped over Arcanis and it was titled Luis the Omnipotent or something like that. Well, with our growing friendship, I convinced him to trade me his Arcanis and have him sign it. I still have it in my binder. I told Luis that I would wish for his Tendrils, but I know he doesn't have it. That got a good laugh. When I got back to the table of my other friends from Davis, I showed them and they first reacted "So what, it's just Luis" because to them, he was just our friend Luis who goes to the shop. I reminded them that LSV, even then, was becoming one of the best magic players of all time and was getting better - that his Arcanis is a part of magic history and his rise. That, when we are 30+ (I am 38 now), he won't just be Luis and we won't just be hanging out at the shop anymore. This is a chance to grab a memory of one of the games best and a true memory to hold forever. Imagine owing Craig Jones's Lightning Helix. needless to say, they then understood and started asking him as well. Before you knew it, I started a small craze at the event with then multiple people asking him to sign Arcanis or Mystical Teachings - the true key to the deck.
2. Because I got to know LSV, and went undefeated against him in Vintage tournaments in that era (I lost games, but not matches of best 2 out of 3), he actually approached me in between rounds of FNM and weekend events to jam a few games of vintage and talk shop. He is one of the best magic players of all time, but I was really good at vintage for about three years. When I saw that Tyrant-Oath won a big event in Europe and tested the deck on MTGWorkStation, I found it to be the best deck and had a heated talk with him, Web Ochoa, Jeff "FOB", Eirik and the rest of the crew. I must have convinced Webb because he took it to the Mox Emerald event and won it with Tyrant Oath by going undefeated. Those were good days of playing Magic at the highest level I could attain with some of the best players ever in one of the most prestigious formats of the time.
Reminds me of opponents conceding thinking I have explosion in my wilderness reclamation deck, when I sometimes didn't have it (mostly on arena, in eldraine T2, they see me tapping, they scooping)
I definitely won a few games with that deck by tapping out all my mana and then emoting good game at my opponent with nothing in hand to spend the mana on.
So this is why he’s always talking about how you dont need a wincon in vintage cube
Hilarious. Never knew about this one. Good vid! Keep it up!
Really good stuff. Excited to see where your channel goes!
I remember back when "Eggs" was a thing in modern. I could be durdeling for up to 15 minutes and still brick. Often i would win due to my oppnent not wanting to watch me go through the motions, however I did fail comboing a lot of the times, they made me do it :)
Spend your time wisely, and concede to tedious comboes.
Nah, play it out.
@@AnonYmous-mc5zx I won a game of commander because my opponent claimed they had theoretically infinite turns and I wouldn't concede until they turned that theoretical prospect into an actuality. They wiffed on the 6th loop. Then my Decree of Annihilation cleaned up the board *real* nice.
@@Invisifly2 my favorite moment was playing a Daxos the Returned enchantments prison deck. My opponent got the stasis lock down, but by then all of my enchantments were making me/themselves/my other permanents absolutely unkillable via conventional means (he needed a board wipe for enchantments that didnt target).
"Shit, alright well I guess I can just mill you out with every turn card draw."
I had more cards in deck than he did.
We called it a draw.
What a fun story. Thanks for sharing.
That was a good watch, thanks!
Always play it out. Make em have it.
Sick to see new mtg content pop off
it might have even been LSV who wrote an article saying that you should always make the other player play out their combo for precisely this reason, a piece of advice i took to heart (also I copied this strategy and bluffed a win in a FNM game when I had all my win conditions cranially extracted from my deck).
I think mike long did something similar back in the day with one of his combo decks. i forget the details, but i think he was forced to hard cast his wincon early to survive, and then later his combo went off and in the middle of playing it all out said something like "do i really need to go through all this?" and the other player said no and conceded, not knowing that the wincon was a one-off in the deck.
Vsauce and Summoning Salt influences, solid vid!
Excellent video, storytelling especially! So, what’s next 👀
Not sure yet, I have a list of ideas but I haven’t decided which I want to make.
@@Ski_Freak Excited to see whatever comes next
Made my Day!
great video :)
The fact that the TOs let the top 4 conspire to not even play out the semi or finals is the most shocking thing in this entire video. Nowadays doing that at any big event in any Esport would get all 4 of them in major hot water.
It's pretty common in events that aren't at the top level / esports in mtg.
edit: By pretty common I mean not unusual.
"The duel's not over till the last card's played."
Blazo's "Natural Green" in the BGM earned you a sub.
colors of jazz 1 and 2 are S tier back ground music
@@Ski_Freak And Blazo's a GOAT for not striking people and stuff I love that guy
I love the pump fake of Castle Ardenvale/Settle the Wreckage.
I propose that henceforth, we should refer to any combo deck that intentionally doesn’t include a win-con as “Burning Grifts”
I only scoop once I see the actual win condition and it works out for me. Still remember the time I watched someone combo off for a good 5-10 minutes with Dragonstorm only for them to realise they miscounted, were a mana short, and had to pass the turn with nothing but a DS in hand
Always, always, always make your opponent play out their win. I can't count how many durdley control decks that try to annoy their opponents out of the game I've had to deal with that had NO other win condition. Even if they do have it, at the very least you get more information.
What a bloody legend
This is exactly why Reid Duke has his policy of never, ever conceding. I take a similar view - sometimes an opponent has everything they need, but do they even know how to win now that they have the combo out?
Way back when Extended was a format I was playing in round 3 or 4 with no losses. My opponent was on Aluren, definitely seemed to have everything he needed to win assembled (he had Aluren resolved a Raven Familiar, Cavern Harpy and a living wish with plenty of mana) and was trying to convince me that he had everything and would win. I told him to play it then. We had a few spectators watching and he seemed kinda off kilter. He proceeded to absolutely butcher the line (can't remember how exactly, just remember how flustered he was) and I got the W.
Prime example of why you should never concede unless you've already seen your opponent's win-con. Play it out in your first game. Once you see how they win, then if you want to concede next time, go ahead. I don't think I've ever conceded a game in a tournament unless it was game 2 and I already had 1 win and just wanted to be sure I could play game 3 without time called.
Nice video. Subbed
I might be missing something, but I looked up the card Burning Wish and the ruling change for "outside the game" is listed as 2009. If the tournament was 2005 then he could have pulled any card from his collection. Thanks for the great video btw.
I believe in 2009 a rule changed related to exile and outside the game, where the two used to be the same thing, so they had to change the wording on the related rules. You used to be able to use wish cards to get cards from exile and put them into your hand, and you cannot do that anymore, I believe this was changed around that time so I assume that is the reason, although there may have been a different rule change to cause this.
Closest I've done to this is siding out my combo win condition for stuff to fight through my opponent's disruption. Every time I've done it they've conceeded when I've meet the conditions for the combo even though I couldn't actually win.
good video dude
solid video
**Summoning Salt Music Starts**
Oh man you knows its gonna get real now.
This still doesn't explain how Gabriel Nassif can win with control decks that seemingly have no win conditions.
Pat Chapin - Profane Command - all my legal targets gain fear - for the PT winning handshake 🤝
This kind of thing is part of why I never scoop. A friend tried bluffing me similarly back when I first started playing, I called his bluff, and I won as a result.
The other reason is that I personally love seeing things play out, even if it means I lose. It's part of why I don't even like opponents scooping when I'm about to win. I want to see my combo play out!
I do understand why people do it in tournaments, of course, I'm not saying anything against those that scoop
This is why I always play the game out to the end no matter what.
Love the Vsauce and Summoning Salt influences
So, what stopped the opponent from picking both the cards that play cards from the grave during Gifts Unforgiven?
Nothing, that is just the choice the opponent makes that in theory burns the most mana (there are other reasons you might not want to pick like that, but it's largely dependent on the game itself).
In that case you untap on your turn, pay 3 mana for yawgmoth's will, then you have access to everything in your graveyard, including both of the other 2 cards you got, so you then get to make more mana and play gifts again. Once you play a second gifts or other big card advantage tool with yawg's will active you basically have infinite resources at that point, since a lot of the cards you get you will be able to cast twice and none of them will be entirely unavailable.
This is kind of a bad explanation, it's quite late for me, but basically if the opp does that it's just -3 mana, so if you have the mana you are fine.
Back in 5 color ante, there was a time that I used a tutor when my opponent was a 3 life. Before the tutor resolved I asked him if he had a counterspell to stop a bolt and he just conceded. He didn't know I only had one bolt in my deck and I already played it.
Did the tournament have an open deck list and sideboard?
no, I believe that only became popular much later on
And here was me thinking it was the other greatest bluff of all time, also LSV's token shenanigans
I played a ton of simic nexus and they always made me play it all the way out, probably because you can mess that one up easily, but i loved taking 10 minute turns while my opponents descended into agony
just want to shout out the vsauce and summoning salt bgms XD the vsauce bgm was esp appropriate right after, "or did he?"
Instant subscribe.
This is one of many reasons why you simply never concede.
I never concede. Always make your opponent commit. If they're going to make a twenty-card combo and go infinite, by God, I will sit there and let them waste their own time doing it until I am dead. I, personally, would have been too stupid to know what his combo was. I would have sat there, saying, "Okay." After he'd say he's going to play a card from outside the game.
3:07 what is the song thats playing in the background?
We're Finally Landing
Great video, though a little difficult to understand (vocally, just kinda slurry/muddy IMO). Absolutely loved the VSauce music though. xD
Important to note that deck lists are made public after cut to top 8 at most notable tournaments. Opp would just see that you dont have a win con.
LSV: “I win.”
Opponent: “Okay.”
🐐
A reasonable addendum might be that players now know not to concede until they actually see the win condition in at least the first game.
to be fair, saying "i now have storm count 15" is a good bluff
Everyone knows now that LSV is one card short of a full deck.
I love the Vsauce cameo~
Didn't he do this with Elves when he won the pro tour? Like he had no win con but opp assumed he did
I am not sure, this is the only major instance of this that I have heard of, although I’m sure its happened more times and with other people, probably just not as famous due to not winning a tournament with it.
yawgmoth's will was a game changer when it came out.. still one of the greatest cards of all time.. some say if there were a Power 10... yawgmoth's will
I think at this point it’s somewhat accepted that underworld breach is actually better. I haven’t played eternal in years but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s true. Mana crypt is also pretty crazy and probably better than timetwister. A lot is probably better than timetwister… anyway forgive my ramblings :D
Did they not have decklists available for the top 8? Nowadays that's always open knowledge at big tourneys.
Yeah open decklists used to be less of a thing and this wasn't a pro tour or anything
Play it out... ALWAYS. Players are so use to the scoop that they mess up the actual combo a lot more than people realize.
Is this where the LSV meme about building/drafting decks without wincons was born ?
He did indeed proceed to get away with it
I wonder how pivotal LSV was to convincing the top 4 to split the prize lol
It's not like he didn't legit win. He just used a bluff to work around a technicality. If his burning wish was countered he'd still lose the game. As far as gameplay goes, he won fair and square.
The number of games I HAD NO BUSINESS WINNING with meandeck tendrils (you get 85% of the way thru comboing and then realize LMAO I CRACKED A CHROMATIC FOR THE WRONG MANA GG) but I just kept going and a lot of the time they would get tired of me cantripping thru eggs and whatnot and concede. That deck was BRUTAL. The number of times I would cast Spoils of the Vault just to get a random 4 of like Dark Ritual and it would just be like "lol all 4 are in the bottom 10 cards of your deck, u ded".
That is really funny, I support this 100% as long as the player doesn't lie about having the card in their deck. If too many people did this though, then no one would concede anymore because they might not actually lose and that would drag things out for no reason in 99% of cases.
What font is the thumbnail?
I’ll ask xefas tomorrow, there’s some font ripping websites you can find as well if you look
I always thought the content of your maindeck and sideboard was known at the start of the tournament, from this I assume you have to declare a list to the organisers but it remains secret from other players? Certainly changes a lot.
In recent years larger tournaments have shifted mostly to an open decklist format, where you get to see your opponent’s list before your match. In the past however, your decklist was usually only given to the tournament organizers for the purpose of making sure you follow the game and tournament rules.
Based on the amount of comments on this I probably should have mentioned that in the video
@@Ski_Freak interesting. No grief, it's really hard sometimes to realise what simple facts might however not be common knowledge.