Well, I hope you all enjoyed this video style. I have another What If video coming up next, and so hopefully, you all find these videos interesting lol. Any other thoughts you can think of when it comes to JYJ never leaving TVXQ? Thank you for watching! Don't forget to hit those like and buttons for me please!
Love your videos! I think that they are straight to the point and truthful in your observations. You are so lucky being able to live in (South) Korea and go to the live K-pop concerts in the past. Getting to understand the beautiful language and live in the beautiful culture. Thank you for continuing to make interesting videos!!
Hey, can you make video about recent hype issue about kpop as genre? Isn't just Pop with Korean language? Is it deserve to be called "genre"? Because genre is music style and no unique features or unique distinct in kpop can be called as genre. Also many song writer coming from the West.
The thing is, JYJ's lawsuit also influenced our lives as fans. I came into kpop in 2004 and by 2007 became a Cassie. To be a fan and experience that break-up in real time was very painful. If you think that fanwars are bad now, you just don't know how much dirt was circulating both online and in other media at that point. A lot of fans in my circle supported JYJ and considered Changmin and Yunho traitors, who betrayed their friends in favor of the company and money, which made me stop communications with some of my own real-life fandom friends. It was a mess. Changmin was my bias and I still support him and Yunho a lot, but from time to time I can't help but want the old TVXQ with 5 members together again in some capacity. Although, with Yoochun's issue, I don't think this will ever happen.
Yet, Xiah or Hero joining wouldn't be impossible, Yoochun won't happen for sure, since even when he'd be out, he's blacklisted. I am also a Cassie since then, and i can defintely agree with that. Some consider the old fanwars alot calmer and better than now, but its just as equal. And not to even talk about the anti-fans from then. I'm convinced they can defintely reunite as 4.
Well, at some point I agree with u. I, myself, am also a cassie till today, not gonna quit. But I dont know if reuniting will do good to them. I miss those old days, yess. I still watch JJ and JS here and there. Esp junsu always bring me to tears when he performs. But, I just dont know, if reuniting is really good for everyone. I will just support whatever they decided. And I wish no more fan-wars from both sides ever again. Let us just support them. No more hatred. Shoutout from Indonesian CASSIOPEIA. 🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩
@@aska_1401 The original five boys on stage no longer exist! Each has already passed his own separate path and cannot return to his previous state of innocent youths. After everything they've been through, they are now COMPLETELY DIFFERENT mature, formed personalities. .There's no point in them getting together again. Even if they had gotten together, it would have been a completely different group, different from the previous group. And perhaps the public would not have liked it.
the fact that they were only 23 years old when they filed this lawsuit is also very brave of them. i can’t imagine going against a titan of the industry at such a young age
I will admire JYJ forever. I got into kpop in January 2011 because of their treatment under SM (thru their music.) I wish more new fans understood the legacy of their tenacity and such likely effects on agencies as better treatment. Their tracks like Get Out, Pierrot, and (Nameless Song) Part 1 were anthems of JYJ's struggle creating a bond between JYJ fans and the group, and may have led to such greater openness by group members of kpop life's struggles (as seen in BTS' lyrics.) Tracks such as W, thought to be about the remaining 2 members, and You're which is a "thank you" to JYJ's fans were complex, emotionally-driven, and of course beautiful. Jaejoong's personal song for his fans was and still is "I'll Protect You" which fans would sing back to him, creating some of the most genuine, open moments i have ever witnessed in kpop from then until now. Thank you so much for shining a light on them. ❤❤❤
I wholeheartedly agree with you! The reasons why the three filed the lawsuit were very serious. The SM company had no intention of correcting or improving them. Realizing this, you need to respect the guys' decision to leave! And I believe that the transformation of free people into... powerless SLAVES of their fans, and the “hunted horses” of their employers is unacceptable and cruel!
I only enter the kpop world after I heard DYNAMITE by BTS in 2020 during the pandemic and in feverish research about kpop in general I come to respect JYJ very much. It should not be that hard for artists, and SM should not have gotten away with EVERYTHING they are STILL DOING TODAY.
@@user-no2lx9tt7b "... the transformation of free people into... powerless SLAVES of their fans, and the “hunted horses” of their employers is unacceptable and cruel!" THIS
this is a great video Derek! I got into Kpop with SJ’s rising to popularity with Sorry Sorry, which is when the lawsuit happened (and then followed by Hangeng’s lawsuit shortly after) and SNSD’s Genie. Imagine if SM didnt switch focus to SJ and SNSD, it would have been different for many lives, for the artists and for the kpop fans as well. I forever acknowledge both DBSK and JYJ’s impact as they both changed the course of history.
The lawsuit had more complicating factors than that, but yes, JYJ and Han Geng's lawsuits against SM were influential to other artists, notably EXO's Chinese members and B.A.P. Whether or not it benefitted JYJ themselves is up for debate. Most of their money didn't come from their music after the split- it came from investments and other things. As idols, their careers basically tanked because of their broadcast limitations. It was less of an official ban and more of SM's heavy influence in the industry at the time that made most broadcasters hesitant to hire them because between them and an industry behemoth like SM, who is the more logical choice? Ethically, it was abhorrent of SM to use their power like that, but as a business move, it made sense. It might be more difficult for a kpop fan to understand today, but back then, SMEnt was unparalleled. Even YG and JYP were not on their level, though YG overtook them later thanks to Big Bang's success. I love the TVXQ duo, but I do wonder what kind of stage we would have been shown if TVXQ had continued as 5. Though let's be real, KYHD is miles better than Maximum, which was definitely no Rising Sun, O, or Mirotic. Something that would have been interesting to see is if Big Bang would've gained the stranglehold on male kpop groups for so long. They were already doing well, but there's no doubt that their biggest rival leaving the game made them much more successful. It is hard to overstate just how much their success paved the way for future artists to promote internationally. TVXQ and BoA were the pioneers of Japan's Hallyu Wave. Although their breakup may have been inevitable, not least because SM was running them into the ground with their constant back to back promotions in South Korea and Japan. Still, one wonders what could have been. A very long winded comment, but it's rare to be able to talk about the older groups. I'm not so familiar with the new ones, but it seems there are still many problems plaguing the industry. But the entertainment industry is always a seedy shithole no matter your country of origin, so that's nothing new.
And I don’t even think YG overtook them with Big Bang, BB only made them parallel to SM, tho it was impressive how one group, later 2ne1 too, made them grow so much when SM had many successful groups at that time. Well said btw 👏🏻👏🏻 Though a couple of points I would like to say is 1) TVXQ! is still massive in Japan, even as a duo. 2) Let’s be real, Changmin and specially Yunho became WAY better after the breakup. Yunho really trained his vocals after, and I do remember them talking about how much they needed to improve before Keep Your Head Down and forward, and honestly it shows. I think, even though painful, the breakup made Max and Yunho reach further potentials. 3) It’s hard to say whether or not Yoochun’s story would’ve happened as it did, but at least I’m glad Jaejoong and Junsu seem to finally be getting accepted again by Korean media.
@andiestrellitam3 It actually surprised me the first time I saw Junsu and Jaejoong have more regular tv appearances. I'd gotten so used to not seeing them outside of a select few appearances. Oh, and I agree 1000% that Yunho and Changmin really stepped up their game after the split. I'm glad others noticed it. Actually, when I watched them perform Rising Sun as two for the first time, an indescribable feeling hit me. For all that people said at the time they'd never make it as two and they were the two "leftover" members, that particular performance cemented to me that the two of them are, without a doubt, TVXQ. I supported the group regardless of whether it was as 5 or 2, but I wondered if it would still be "TVXQ," and the answer was a resounding YES. After that, I knew I didn't have to worry anymore, and I was correct lol. Very excited to see their new stage.
@@glitchyglitchy3925 That’s exactly how I felt about everything! I’m so glad that Junsu and Jaejoong are finally being welcomed back in Korean TV. And I’m glad someone notices how much Max and Yunho improved, specially when it comes to singing Yunho stepped 10000% he barely even sang back when they were together, but you can really feel and see that Max and Yunho really wanted to keep the group alive and I really respect that. They’re new song/album really is an epic 20 year anniversary and shows how epic they still are, true legends. As for Jaejoong and Junsu, their appearance in Jaejoong’s program was a good 20 year anniversary gift, along with them performing back in summer at the Dream Concert in Japan.
Just because you like the duo doeqn't mean that JYJ wasn't succesful, each member has really a strong carreer as an artist. For jaejonng for exemple he is a songwriter, singer, actor till now he iq very popular in japan he has good albums in japaness and korean
@@Hope55328 You're misunderstanding me. I didn't say they weren't talented or successful, I said that their careers were far less successful than they could have been, and it's exactly because they were "prevented" from appearing (or got dropped) on broadcasts for a long time after their lawsuit. It was well-known at the time that SM put a lot of pressure on those companies to stop them from hiring any of JYJ's members, that's why I can't say for sure their lawsuit benefitted them personally when it came to their jobs as singers. Hell, when I saw Junsu on a proper show for the first time in years, it was so shocking to me because I'd gotten used to never seeing any of JYJ's members on TV, aside from some sparse appearances here and there. They've worked very hard for the success they have now, there's no doubt about it.
I would like to add regarding SM’s power/influence on the media, it’s not just them blacklisting them from tv broadcasting but also SM at one point held alooooooot of economical power in Korea. So even if they got blacklisted from SBS, MusicBank and MNE, it will be really hard to book a slot in other less influential stages. Because then SM can refuse to book all their artists for the network and other entertainment companies might follow their direction..So yah.. btw a former member of super junior also exposed the extreme conditions he was forced to work under. I think that was before tvxq not sure but 2009 was a bad year in kpop
Oh yes, the three guys had very good reasons for challenging the show business monopoly! Their courage and determination is admirable! The company wanted to destroy them using dishonest methods... But the guys WON! And thanks to their dedication, other Korean artists were able to improve the terms of their contracts!
Nowadays people calling hybe a bad company they didn't even know that what sm did with jyj , i really respect jyj , they got blacklisted in korea for 13-15 yrs but still they smile and support everyone i just watch jaejoong show jaefriends and thought that how can someone be like him and when junsu appeared in his show and said i have only got you now to jaejoong , i just can't stop my tears i hope that jaejoong and junsu started appearing on korean tv , if jyj didn't got blacklisted then i am sure they are one of the most famous kpop idols
I think it`s very interesting that SM seems to have a history of getting sued by their artists till this day. One of my kpop friends once said that SM feels like a cult to him. Once you are in, it`s almost impossible to get out and leave because of the slavery contracts and the rules you have to follow which is a very scary thought but i think he`s right. SM once even wanted to sell the blood and hair of their artists as merch sooo cult isn`t so far away.
@@ELmayberry LSM had the idea to sell Shinhwa's DNA/blood as one of their comeback promos/fan merch. I think Midnight Theories has a video talking about it, it's wild.
it definitely seems like one of the worst in terms of big companies. jyp seems to treat its artists better. i wish these lawsuits would discourage ppl from auditioning for this company, so SM could face some repercussions for its actions but unfortunately they still seem to be as controlling they were in the past
Omg, are you my FBI agent ??? I literally went on a TVXQ TH-cam marathon yesterday night and rewatched all of their old concerts, music shows, and variety show videos. Haha, love the video as always ❤️
yeah it would've been so much different, scandals could've been prevented too but the ripple effect the lawsuit had on future idol contracts has been made a huge positive impact. can't imagine what it would be like if the lawsuit never happened.
Fab video - I was so new to kpop, maybe a few months when this 'scandal' hit & it was a rude awaking for this little British girl who believed the perfect facade that Kpop had promoting. But boy oh boy - the fandom, including the crazy & power! The awful way idols were treated by its management, it was all so shocking and disgusting. All these years later, if we are honest, those problems are still the same, every time the veneer is pulled back and exposes the corruption & exploration of young people, I'm no longer surprised. But those were the days when I was new and innocent, despite how things have turned out, JYJ did a good thing standing up for themselves. Legends
same. i had only gotten into kpop around the time mirotic came out , so i got to experience ot5 for less than a year. it was a rude awakening to realize how much they suffered behind the scenes while entertaining us and making us happy
What would've happened if JYJ never left SM? (in a different perspective) 1. Junsu wouldn't have done musicals as now. Even he did start at some point of his career (years after 2010) he wouldn't have been as passionate as he did. So he wouldn't had become a big musical star as now. 2. We wouldn't have watch the greatest XIA Ballad&Musical Concerts every year. 3. Jaejoong collabrations with artists like Hyde, Sugizo and Nakashima Mika wouldn't have happened. 4. Jaejoong and Junsu couldn't had debut as solo untill 2018. 5. Tarantallegra and Flower would not had happened because SM would always give him r&b ballads. 6. We could get In Heaven with 5 members but as a b-side. 7. Jaejoong and Junsu wouldn't had establish their own companies Inkode and Palmtree Island. 8. Jaejoong and Junsu couldn't have been as rich as now. You are absolutely right about the direction of kpop. Kpop industry would have be more vocal centered. Even the 4th(and 5th?) gen idols would have sung much better than now.
Yes. 'Also: We would NEVER have known what an incredible performer and vocal powerhouse Changmin is - and would never have gotten his collaborations like the ones with Ha Hyunwoo with "Hybrid" and Taeyon and Winter with "Priority". Not to mention we would never have seen "Chocolate", "Human", "Maniac", "Fever" or certainly "Devil" from him either. And we'd certainly never have found out what a beautiful voice Yunho actually has - nor his stellar performance ability. We certainly wouldn't have gotten covers like "When Love Passes", " Western Sky" or "A glass of soju". And we sure as hell wouldn't have gotten "Thank You", "Loco", "Eeny Meeny", "Follow", "Reality Show", "Red Sun", or "Spotlight".
My sisters introduced me to kpop via TVXQ and were both hardcore Cassiopeias, so this hit hard. TVXQ had a huge ripple effect on the industry and the shift was definitely felt after the split. I hope one day they can fully reunite as 5 again.
I would love for them to reunite for a song like 2NE1 did, but looks like SM is still bitter about the whole thing. Also getting Yoochun back seems unlikely.
So TVXQ was the first group that got me into kpop with Rising Sun and O. I was a huge fan and I could only see their popularity climbing… until the controversy that is. I will admit that when everything was going down, I couldn’t help but blame JYJ. It was definitely admirable and necessary what they were doing, but as a fan, I felt like they were tearing the group apart. For years I couldn’t get myself to listen to any of their music. I have since grown up and put on my big girl pants and moved on from this “betrayal” (I know I was being dramatic) and have gone back and listened to JYJ’s group and solo work and have fallen in love again with them. As much as I would have loved for the 5 of them to have stayed together and dominate the global music scene, I can’t ignore how ground breaking and necessary that lawsuit as it changed the industry and allowed other groups to grow and prosper. Still hoping for all the members to get together again for their 20th anniversary (I know unlikely but a girl can dream).
I'm new at following K-Pop. However I do really like the music! Male pop bands preferred. Don't know what words are being sung/rapped BUT the arrangements, the beat, the music is Crazy Good! I think JYJ did the right thing in "changing the contract law" as K-Pop Music Mogel Companies (especially the "Top 3") tend to be selfish, unreasonable and ruthless back stabbing crooks. (I've seen other commentary videos from other Influencers as well). It was wrong for JYJ to be blackballed/blacklisted. They are three excellent artists in their own right. And another music company should assert a sit-down 'create a contract' session with all three of them to see "what reasonable agreement" can be met so they can get back to performing. Like in the company owned by PSY, you can't perform like a superstar and manage top acts like Jessie and the others. It's manage or perform, not both. And to other companies who have too many acts to manage and end up losing them because of not promoting or supporting them. If you expect top performances from your artists, you should be held accountable for providing enough time, funding and effort to make your clients succeed. I'm sorry that JYJ left TVXQ. They had a lot of great songs together and some are Iconic. But I do LOVE the song "Why? Put Your Head Down" by TVXQ "the duo" it is gritty, edgy, intense, drop-down beat, crazy speed rapping......it's utterly Fantastic! Ballads are ok, super ballads are better, crazy edgy beat filled songs are the best. Come on artists.....mix it up, please!
Another fabulous video! Love the concept. Mirotic is definitely one of my favs and it would have been interesting to have seen where the 5 would have gone. At some point, some group would have had to have done the same thing in order to reform the contract culture in Korea. Respect to them for being so brave. As for you, Derek, keep going with the excellent kpop-related content. You are brilliant!
I remember watching a vid about Girls Generation, they had just come off the stage and the guy who was reporting was saying how great snsd's work ethics were because after the show they had a radio show at 04.00 that next morning, how proud everybody must be for them doing that etc.
As a Cassie, I supported JYJ with all my heart for them to leave SM. I even went to JYJ In Heaven concert in Thailand. However, I still stick to HoMin because their songs were more my style. I still wish they can reunite with 4 members, it’s impossible for Yoochun.
I literally went on a nostalgia fieldtrip today as I played the Japanese tracks from before the lawsuit, I swear you're a witch Derek. I only found out about DBSK in 2010 and it took a while for me to find out about the lawsuit, so I had a speedrun of the Cassie experience. I even made lame "always keep the faith" collages in Photoshop to deal with the pain lol. overall liked JYJ's music more because they still kept the harmonic song styles that felt more like old DBSK, but I supported both. I watched Junsu's Japanese concert where he sang a medley of DBSK's Japanese hits and he started to tear up, that hit me like a trainwreck lol. I do hope we get a reunion one day, they had something special that no other male group ever came close to. I think Mamamoo might be the female equivalent since they carry the same amount of talent and likeability and I'd love a collab between them so much (imagine them all singing It's Raining Men 😁).
omg yes! i actually started out as a tvxq stan and then moved on to being a mamamoo stan. i’m a sucker for vocal based groups with harmonies. both groups have great personalities and stage presence. moonbyul met jaejoong recently on his youtube show and they talked about doing a collaboration together. crossing fingers that it actually happens
From my point of view, it is a success-ending story for both groups. It’s just too pity that Park Yoo Chun must dealing with scandals and drug case, if not JYJ would still be exist up till now.
nope, junsu and jaejoong are still selling out shows and have a pretty big fanbase. they have gained some new fans through musical performances and other appearances. also homin are doing pretty well for themselves, too. they’re just not at the level of international fame they could’ve been if they stayed together when kpop was becoming more popular in the west. also it’s natural for older groups to not be as popular or visible with time. kpop is all about the new and flashy, so of course SM is going to invest in a group like NCT more. their songs are still covered by people’s current faves, and a lot of current idols cite tvxq as an inspiration. their impact can’t be denied
@@bastetowl3258 Yes, agree, Jun Su and Jae Joong still shining up till now, in their own ways. I mean the three of them as a grup JYJ, although it was reported by many Yoo Chun is making a comeback. It’s like the three are going on with their careers as individuals now.
#JusticeForJYJ I must respectfully disagree with you about TVXQ being able to break the global market if they were still together back in the late 2000s and early 2010s. I remember those days and remember kpop coming into various Asian countries as part of the Korean Wave. But what I remember was that in the international world, it was seen as an "Asian thing". Reserved for comic, anime, and gaming fans, or lonely, bored, stressed out housewives and working women who needed a light hearted escape from the heavy real lives they were all living in. These are NOT my opinion, but was what I saw and heard at the time. That was simply the image of kpop back then. Seen from the point of view of the general population. Now, kpop has yet to get the respect it deserves. But at least the grumpy old men (they tend to be men and older, I don't know why) all over the world are forced to either talk about it, praise it, discover it, or curse at it. Kpop has now pierced through the mainstream. It had not back then. As a member of said mainstream population, this has been my experience of the period in both Asian countries and Western countries.
Thank you for making a video about TVXQ/JYJ - it's wonderful to see that you remembered their 20th anniversary. BUT...I do wish you had made more of a history of TVXQ video or something along those lines rather than a video about the lawsuit. I understand that the lawsuit was immensely influential for the future of kpop, but it's not the only piece of TVXQs' story and long history. So many people overlook TVXQ and their influence nowadays, and it would have been nice to see a video from a creator of your level, showcasing TVXQ's years of amazing music both as 5 and split as the duo and JYJ.
As he himself admitted in a personal conversation with a friend: he could have reached... suicide... alas, alas..🥺🥺 (this is not uncommon in this business)😢😢 I didn't come up with this, but I read it in one of the memories...☹☹
I bet that when you're about to make the "What if 2NE1 never disbanded?", you would be feeling a lot of emotions whether its being angry and pissed off or being sad at the same time and I can't blame you since that certain someome did really left you, me and everyone else with discouraging feelings that some of us or most of us never forgive them for dropping the ball on them still to this day 😔
while watching this, i cant help but to think if JTL (jang woohyuk, tony an & lee jaewon) hadn't filed lawsuits against lee soo man and remained with H.O.T. as 1st gen idols, they also had the same reasons like jyj - profit distribution.
I don't remember jtL suing SM, I'm pretty sure their whole ordeal was of them not renewing their contracts, which led to speculations & investigations of their treatment at the company. And since jtL didn't sue, I believe that's why they didn't get blacklisted like JYJ did. If I remember correctly, yes, it was pretty difficult for jtL to get on airwaves, but it wasn't like JYJ"s, a total ban (FOR 15ish YEARS!) jtL was on radio, music shows & variety. But same with you, what would've it been like if H.O.T. hadn't split?
SM (now Kakao) = Hotel California You can check in but you can never leave. (SM stans never realised that their fave's group never "disbanding" while sitting in SM basement is not something to celebrate if they really love their groups)
Well, I hope you all enjoyed this video style. I have another What If video coming up next, and so hopefully, you all find these videos interesting lol. Any other thoughts you can think of when it comes to JYJ never leaving TVXQ? Thank you for watching! Don't forget to hit those like and buttons for me please!
Love your videos! I think that they are straight to the point and truthful in your observations.
You are so lucky being able to live in (South) Korea and go to the live K-pop concerts in the past. Getting to understand the beautiful language and live in the beautiful culture.
Thank you for continuing to make interesting videos!!
Hey, can you make video about recent hype issue about kpop as genre?
Isn't just Pop with Korean language?
Is it deserve to be called "genre"?
Because genre is music style and no unique features or unique distinct in kpop can be called as genre.
Also many song writer coming from the West.
I’ve never learnt more about contract law from another country (or indeed my own), than by being a Kpop Stan since 2008 😂
Also Jaejoong’s rock solos *chefs kiss*
😂😂
The thing is, JYJ's lawsuit also influenced our lives as fans. I came into kpop in 2004 and by 2007 became a Cassie. To be a fan and experience that break-up in real time was very painful. If you think that fanwars are bad now, you just don't know how much dirt was circulating both online and in other media at that point. A lot of fans in my circle supported JYJ and considered Changmin and Yunho traitors, who betrayed their friends in favor of the company and money, which made me stop communications with some of my own real-life fandom friends. It was a mess.
Changmin was my bias and I still support him and Yunho a lot, but from time to time I can't help but want the old TVXQ with 5 members together again in some capacity. Although, with Yoochun's issue, I don't think this will ever happen.
Yet, Xiah or Hero joining wouldn't be impossible, Yoochun won't happen for sure, since even when he'd be out, he's blacklisted.
I am also a Cassie since then, and i can defintely agree with that. Some consider the old fanwars alot calmer and better than now, but its just as equal. And not to even talk about the anti-fans from then. I'm convinced they can defintely reunite as 4.
Well, at some point I agree with u. I, myself, am also a cassie till today, not gonna quit. But I dont know if reuniting will do good to them. I miss those old days, yess. I still watch JJ and JS here and there. Esp junsu always bring me to tears when he performs. But, I just dont know, if reuniting is really good for everyone. I will just support whatever they decided. And I wish no more fan-wars from both sides ever again. Let us just support them. No more hatred. Shoutout from Indonesian CASSIOPEIA.
🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩
@@aska_1401 The original five boys on stage no longer exist!
Each has already passed his own separate path and cannot return to his previous state of innocent youths.
After everything they've been through, they are now COMPLETELY DIFFERENT mature, formed personalities.
.There's no point in them getting together again.
Even if they had gotten together, it would have been a completely different group, different from the previous group.
And perhaps the public would not have liked it.
the fact that they were only 23 years old when they filed this lawsuit is also very brave of them. i can’t imagine going against a titan of the industry at such a young age
I will admire JYJ forever. I got into kpop in January 2011 because of their treatment under SM (thru their music.) I wish more new fans understood the legacy of their tenacity and such likely effects on agencies as better treatment. Their tracks like Get Out, Pierrot, and (Nameless Song) Part 1 were anthems of JYJ's struggle creating a bond between JYJ fans and the group, and may have led to such greater openness by group members of kpop life's struggles (as seen in BTS' lyrics.) Tracks such as W, thought to be about the remaining 2 members, and You're which is a "thank you" to JYJ's fans were complex, emotionally-driven, and of course beautiful. Jaejoong's personal song for his fans was and still is "I'll Protect You" which fans would sing back to him, creating some of the most genuine, open moments i have ever witnessed in kpop from then until now. Thank you so much for shining a light on them. ❤❤❤
I wholeheartedly agree with you!
The reasons why the three filed the lawsuit were very serious. The SM company had no intention of correcting or improving them.
Realizing this, you need to respect the guys' decision to leave!
And I believe that the transformation of free people into... powerless SLAVES of their fans, and the “hunted horses” of their employers is unacceptable and cruel!
I only enter the kpop world after I heard DYNAMITE by BTS in 2020 during the pandemic and in feverish research about kpop in general I come to respect JYJ very much. It should not be that hard for artists, and SM should not have gotten away with EVERYTHING they are STILL DOING TODAY.
@@user-no2lx9tt7b "... the transformation of free people into... powerless SLAVES of their fans, and the “hunted horses” of their employers is unacceptable and cruel!"
THIS
this is a great video Derek! I got into Kpop with SJ’s rising to popularity with Sorry Sorry, which is when the lawsuit happened (and then followed by Hangeng’s lawsuit shortly after) and SNSD’s Genie. Imagine if SM didnt switch focus to SJ and SNSD, it would have been different for many lives, for the artists and for the kpop fans as well. I forever acknowledge both DBSK and JYJ’s impact as they both changed the course of history.
The lawsuit had more complicating factors than that, but yes, JYJ and Han Geng's lawsuits against SM were influential to other artists, notably EXO's Chinese members and B.A.P. Whether or not it benefitted JYJ themselves is up for debate. Most of their money didn't come from their music after the split- it came from investments and other things. As idols, their careers basically tanked because of their broadcast limitations. It was less of an official ban and more of SM's heavy influence in the industry at the time that made most broadcasters hesitant to hire them because between them and an industry behemoth like SM, who is the more logical choice? Ethically, it was abhorrent of SM to use their power like that, but as a business move, it made sense. It might be more difficult for a kpop fan to understand today, but back then, SMEnt was unparalleled. Even YG and JYP were not on their level, though YG overtook them later thanks to Big Bang's success.
I love the TVXQ duo, but I do wonder what kind of stage we would have been shown if TVXQ had continued as 5. Though let's be real, KYHD is miles better than Maximum, which was definitely no Rising Sun, O, or Mirotic. Something that would have been interesting to see is if Big Bang would've gained the stranglehold on male kpop groups for so long. They were already doing well, but there's no doubt that their biggest rival leaving the game made them much more successful. It is hard to overstate just how much their success paved the way for future artists to promote internationally. TVXQ and BoA were the pioneers of Japan's Hallyu Wave. Although their breakup may have been inevitable, not least because SM was running them into the ground with their constant back to back promotions in South Korea and Japan. Still, one wonders what could have been.
A very long winded comment, but it's rare to be able to talk about the older groups. I'm not so familiar with the new ones, but it seems there are still many problems plaguing the industry. But the entertainment industry is always a seedy shithole no matter your country of origin, so that's nothing new.
And I don’t even think YG overtook them with Big Bang, BB only made them parallel to SM, tho it was impressive how one group, later 2ne1 too, made them grow so much when SM had many successful groups at that time.
Well said btw 👏🏻👏🏻
Though a couple of points I would like to say is
1) TVXQ! is still massive in Japan, even as a duo.
2) Let’s be real, Changmin and specially Yunho became WAY better after the breakup. Yunho really trained his vocals after, and I do remember them talking about how much they needed to improve before Keep Your Head Down and forward, and honestly it shows. I think, even though painful, the breakup made Max and Yunho reach further potentials.
3) It’s hard to say whether or not Yoochun’s story would’ve happened as it did, but at least I’m glad Jaejoong and Junsu seem to finally be getting accepted again by Korean media.
@andiestrellitam3 It actually surprised me the first time I saw Junsu and Jaejoong have more regular tv appearances. I'd gotten so used to not seeing them outside of a select few appearances.
Oh, and I agree 1000% that Yunho and Changmin really stepped up their game after the split. I'm glad others noticed it. Actually, when I watched them perform Rising Sun as two for the first time, an indescribable feeling hit me. For all that people said at the time they'd never make it as two and they were the two "leftover" members, that particular performance cemented to me that the two of them are, without a doubt, TVXQ. I supported the group regardless of whether it was as 5 or 2, but I wondered if it would still be "TVXQ," and the answer was a resounding YES. After that, I knew I didn't have to worry anymore, and I was correct lol. Very excited to see their new stage.
@@glitchyglitchy3925 That’s exactly how I felt about everything!
I’m so glad that Junsu and Jaejoong are finally being welcomed back in Korean TV.
And I’m glad someone notices how much Max and Yunho improved, specially when it comes to singing Yunho stepped 10000% he barely even sang back when they were together, but you can really feel and see that Max and Yunho really wanted to keep the group alive and I really respect that. They’re new song/album really is an epic 20 year anniversary and shows how epic they still are, true legends. As for Jaejoong and Junsu, their appearance in Jaejoong’s program was a good 20 year anniversary gift, along with them performing back in summer at the Dream Concert in Japan.
Just because you like the duo doeqn't mean that JYJ wasn't succesful, each member has really a strong carreer as an artist. For jaejonng for exemple he is a songwriter, singer, actor till now he iq very popular in japan he has good albums in japaness and korean
@@Hope55328 You're misunderstanding me. I didn't say they weren't talented or successful, I said that their careers were far less successful than they could have been, and it's exactly because they were "prevented" from appearing (or got dropped) on broadcasts for a long time after their lawsuit. It was well-known at the time that SM put a lot of pressure on those companies to stop them from hiring any of JYJ's members, that's why I can't say for sure their lawsuit benefitted them personally when it came to their jobs as singers. Hell, when I saw Junsu on a proper show for the first time in years, it was so shocking to me because I'd gotten used to never seeing any of JYJ's members on TV, aside from some sparse appearances here and there. They've worked very hard for the success they have now, there's no doubt about it.
I love how you didn't just talk about the group or the music but the whole industry! That's the way to make a good video!
I would like to add regarding SM’s power/influence on the media, it’s not just them blacklisting them from tv broadcasting but also SM at one point held alooooooot of economical power in Korea. So even if they got blacklisted from SBS, MusicBank and MNE, it will be really hard to book a slot in other less influential stages. Because then SM can refuse to book all their artists for the network and other entertainment companies might follow their direction..So yah.. btw a former member of super junior also exposed the extreme conditions he was forced to work under. I think that was before tvxq not sure but 2009 was a bad year in kpop
Oh yes, the three guys had very good reasons for challenging the show business monopoly!
Their courage and determination is admirable!
The company wanted to destroy them using dishonest methods...
But the guys WON!
And thanks to their dedication, other Korean artists were able to improve the terms of their contracts!
luckily jyj seem to be returning to korean tv slowly because SM’s influence is not as big nowadays
Nowadays people calling hybe a bad company they didn't even know that what sm did with jyj , i really respect jyj , they got blacklisted in korea for 13-15 yrs but still they smile and support everyone i just watch jaejoong show jaefriends and thought that how can someone be like him and when junsu appeared in his show and said i have only got you now to jaejoong , i just can't stop my tears i hope that jaejoong and junsu started appearing on korean tv , if jyj didn't got blacklisted then i am sure they are one of the most famous kpop idols
I think it`s very interesting that SM seems to have a history of getting sued by their artists till this day. One of my kpop friends once said that SM feels like a cult to him. Once you are in, it`s almost impossible to get out and leave because of the slavery contracts and the rules you have to follow which is a very scary thought but i think he`s right. SM once even wanted to sell the blood and hair of their artists as merch sooo cult isn`t so far away.
wait.. the wanted to sell what 😮
@@ELmayberry LSM had the idea to sell Shinhwa's DNA/blood as one of their comeback promos/fan merch. I think Midnight Theories has a video talking about it, it's wild.
@@escritora84 whoa 😲
it definitely seems like one of the worst in terms of big companies. jyp seems to treat its artists better. i wish these lawsuits would discourage ppl from auditioning for this company, so SM could face some repercussions for its actions but unfortunately they still seem to be as controlling they were in the past
Omg, are you my FBI agent ??? I literally went on a TVXQ TH-cam marathon yesterday night and rewatched all of their old concerts, music shows, and variety show videos. Haha, love the video as always ❤️
yeah it would've been so much different, scandals could've been prevented too but the ripple effect the lawsuit had on future idol contracts has been made a huge positive impact. can't imagine what it would be like if the lawsuit never happened.
Fab video - I was so new to kpop, maybe a few months when this 'scandal' hit & it was a rude awaking for this little British girl who believed the perfect facade that Kpop had promoting. But boy oh boy - the fandom, including the crazy & power! The awful way idols were treated by its management, it was all so shocking and disgusting. All these years later, if we are honest, those problems are still the same, every time the veneer is pulled back and exposes the corruption & exploration of young people, I'm no longer surprised. But those were the days when I was new and innocent, despite how things have turned out, JYJ did a good thing standing up for themselves. Legends
same. i had only gotten into kpop around the time mirotic came out , so i got to experience ot5 for less than a year. it was a rude awakening to realize how much they suffered behind the scenes while entertaining us and making us happy
…we don’t talk about Yoochun lmao. He’s like Voldemort now.
damn... he who must not be named 😂😂
What would've happened if JYJ never left SM? (in a different perspective)
1. Junsu wouldn't have done musicals as now. Even he did start at some point of his career (years after 2010) he wouldn't have been as passionate as he did. So he wouldn't had become a big musical star as now.
2. We wouldn't have watch the greatest XIA Ballad&Musical Concerts every year.
3. Jaejoong collabrations with artists like Hyde, Sugizo and Nakashima Mika wouldn't have happened.
4. Jaejoong and Junsu couldn't had debut as solo untill 2018.
5. Tarantallegra and Flower would not had happened because SM would always give him r&b ballads.
6. We could get In Heaven with 5 members but as a b-side.
7. Jaejoong and Junsu wouldn't had establish their own companies Inkode and Palmtree Island.
8. Jaejoong and Junsu couldn't have been as rich as now.
You are absolutely right about the direction of kpop. Kpop industry would have be more vocal centered. Even the 4th(and 5th?) gen idols would have sung much better than now.
Yes. 'Also:
We would NEVER have known what an incredible performer and vocal powerhouse Changmin is - and would never have gotten his collaborations like the ones with Ha Hyunwoo with "Hybrid" and Taeyon and Winter with "Priority".
Not to mention we would never have seen "Chocolate", "Human", "Maniac", "Fever" or certainly "Devil" from him either.
And we'd certainly never have found out what a beautiful voice Yunho actually has - nor his stellar performance ability. We certainly wouldn't have gotten covers like "When Love Passes", " Western Sky" or "A glass of soju".
And we sure as hell wouldn't have gotten "Thank You", "Loco", "Eeny Meeny", "Follow", "Reality Show", "Red Sun", or "Spotlight".
My sisters introduced me to kpop via TVXQ and were both hardcore Cassiopeias, so this hit hard. TVXQ had a huge ripple effect on the industry and the shift was definitely felt after the split. I hope one day they can fully reunite as 5 again.
I would love for them to reunite for a song like 2NE1 did, but looks like SM is still bitter about the whole thing. Also getting Yoochun back seems unlikely.
You don’t know how long I’ve been waiting for a video like this 😩
Would love to see you make a video about what if T-ARA never had a bullying scandal
So TVXQ was the first group that got me into kpop with Rising Sun and O. I was a huge fan and I could only see their popularity climbing… until the controversy that is. I will admit that when everything was going down, I couldn’t help but blame JYJ. It was definitely admirable and necessary what they were doing, but as a fan, I felt like they were tearing the group apart. For years I couldn’t get myself to listen to any of their music. I have since grown up and put on my big girl pants and moved on from this “betrayal” (I know I was being dramatic) and have gone back and listened to JYJ’s group and solo work and have fallen in love again with them. As much as I would have loved for the 5 of them to have stayed together and dominate the global music scene, I can’t ignore how ground breaking and necessary that lawsuit as it changed the industry and allowed other groups to grow and prosper. Still hoping for all the members to get together again for their 20th anniversary (I know unlikely but a girl can dream).
my god, I know EXACTLY how you feel, the same for me.
I'm new at following K-Pop. However I do really like the music! Male pop bands preferred. Don't know what words are being sung/rapped BUT the arrangements, the beat, the music is Crazy Good!
I think JYJ did the right thing in "changing the contract law" as K-Pop Music Mogel Companies (especially the "Top 3") tend to be selfish, unreasonable and ruthless back stabbing crooks. (I've seen other commentary videos from other Influencers as well).
It was wrong for JYJ to be blackballed/blacklisted. They are three excellent artists in their own right. And another music company should assert a sit-down 'create a contract' session with all three of them to see "what reasonable agreement" can be met so they can get back to performing.
Like in the company owned by PSY, you can't perform like a superstar and manage top acts like Jessie and the others. It's manage or perform, not both.
And to other companies who have too many acts to manage and end up losing them because of not promoting or supporting them. If you expect top performances from your artists, you should be held accountable for providing enough time, funding and effort to make your clients succeed.
I'm sorry that JYJ left TVXQ. They had a lot of great songs together and some are Iconic. But I do LOVE the song "Why? Put Your Head Down" by TVXQ "the duo" it is gritty, edgy, intense, drop-down beat, crazy speed rapping......it's utterly Fantastic!
Ballads are ok, super ballads are better, crazy edgy beat filled songs are the best. Come on artists.....mix it up, please!
Another fabulous video! Love the concept. Mirotic is definitely one of my favs and it would have been interesting to have seen where the 5 would have gone. At some point, some group would have had to have done the same thing in order to reform the contract culture in Korea. Respect to them for being so brave.
As for you, Derek, keep going with the excellent kpop-related content. You are brilliant!
I remember watching a vid about Girls Generation, they had just come off the stage and the guy who was reporting was saying how great snsd's work ethics were because after the show they had a radio show at 04.00 that next morning, how proud everybody must be for them doing that etc.
As a Cassie, I supported JYJ with all my heart for them to leave SM. I even went to JYJ In Heaven concert in Thailand. However, I still stick to HoMin because their songs were more my style. I still wish they can reunite with 4 members, it’s impossible for Yoochun.
Thank u for making this vid. I wish no more fan-wars onward.
Shoutout from Indonesian CASSIOPEIA
🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩
I literally went on a nostalgia fieldtrip today as I played the Japanese tracks from before the lawsuit, I swear you're a witch Derek. I only found out about DBSK in 2010 and it took a while for me to find out about the lawsuit, so I had a speedrun of the Cassie experience. I even made lame "always keep the faith" collages in Photoshop to deal with the pain lol.
overall liked JYJ's music more because they still kept the harmonic song styles that felt more like old DBSK, but I supported both. I watched Junsu's Japanese concert where he sang a medley of DBSK's Japanese hits and he started to tear up, that hit me like a trainwreck lol.
I do hope we get a reunion one day, they had something special that no other male group ever came close to. I think Mamamoo might be the female equivalent since they carry the same amount of talent and likeability and I'd love a collab between them so much (imagine them all singing It's Raining Men 😁).
omg yes! i actually started out as a tvxq stan and then moved on to being a mamamoo stan. i’m a sucker for vocal based groups with harmonies. both groups have great personalities and stage presence. moonbyul met jaejoong recently on his youtube show and they talked about doing a collaboration together. crossing fingers that it actually happens
Hey !! I love Ayy Girl 😭
Same, I never understood the hate 😅
Flower is my absolute favorite song. Kim Junsu ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
From my point of view, it is a success-ending story for both groups. It’s just too pity that Park Yoo Chun must dealing with scandals and drug case, if not JYJ would still be exist up till now.
nope, junsu and jaejoong are still selling out shows and have a pretty big fanbase. they have gained some new fans through musical performances and other appearances. also homin are doing pretty well for themselves, too. they’re just not at the level of international fame they could’ve been if they stayed together when kpop was becoming more popular in the west. also it’s natural for older groups to not be as popular or visible with time. kpop is all about the new and flashy, so of course SM is going to invest in a group like NCT more. their songs are still covered by people’s current faves, and a lot of current idols cite tvxq as an inspiration. their impact can’t be denied
@@bastetowl3258 Yes, agree, Jun Su and Jae Joong still shining up till now, in their own ways. I mean the three of them as a grup JYJ, although it was reported by many Yoo Chun is making a comeback. It’s like the three are going on with their careers as individuals now.
I'd just about sell my soul in hell (well, maybe that's a little strong 🤭) for JYJ to reunite for at least just 4 mins and sing Backseat to us! 🥵
The question I ask myself once monthly
#JusticeForJYJ
I must respectfully disagree with you about TVXQ being able to break the global market if they were still together back in the late 2000s and early 2010s. I remember those days and remember kpop coming into various Asian countries as part of the Korean Wave. But what I remember was that in the international world, it was seen as an "Asian thing". Reserved for comic, anime, and gaming fans, or lonely, bored, stressed out housewives and working women who needed a light hearted escape from the heavy real lives they were all living in. These are NOT my opinion, but was what I saw and heard at the time.
That was simply the image of kpop back then. Seen from the point of view of the general population.
Now, kpop has yet to get the respect it deserves. But at least the grumpy old men (they tend to be men and older, I don't know why) all over the world are forced to either talk about it, praise it, discover it, or curse at it. Kpop has now pierced through the mainstream.
It had not back then. As a member of said mainstream population, this has been my experience of the period in both Asian countries and Western countries.
unrelated to this video but on point with the channel.. The Boyz new song Honey. The lyrics!
Breakout is 🔥 I love their japanese songs
they should be reunite together as 5, nothing is impossible
Thank you for making a video about TVXQ/JYJ - it's wonderful to see that you remembered their 20th anniversary.
BUT...I do wish you had made more of a history of TVXQ video or something along those lines rather than a video about the lawsuit. I understand that the lawsuit was immensely influential for the future of kpop, but it's not the only piece of TVXQs' story and long history. So many people overlook TVXQ and their influence nowadays, and it would have been nice to see a video from a creator of your level, showcasing TVXQ's years of amazing music both as 5 and split as the duo and JYJ.
oh god what if Han Geng hadn't sued to have his contract terminated?
As he himself admitted in a personal conversation with a friend: he could have reached... suicide... alas, alas..🥺🥺
(this is not uncommon in this business)😢😢
I didn't come up with this, but I read it in one of the memories...☹☹
@@user-no2lx9tt7b ugh. SM's groups are easily my favorites, but they treat their artists worse than dog shit.
Nice concept!
It Was Great Video To Learn And Know.
I bet that when you're about to make the "What if 2NE1 never disbanded?", you would be feeling a lot of emotions whether its being angry and pissed off or being sad at the same time and I can't blame you since that certain someome did really left you, me and everyone else with discouraging feelings that some of us or most of us never forgive them for dropping the ball on them still to this day 😔
WHAT?
GOING TO WATCH THIS BUT JUST WHAT
I loved your video. It still breaks my heart thinking about everything JYJ went through. What if... Something I indulge in myself.
while watching this, i cant help but to think if JTL (jang woohyuk, tony an & lee jaewon) hadn't filed lawsuits against lee soo man and remained with H.O.T. as 1st gen idols, they also had the same reasons like jyj - profit distribution.
I don't remember jtL suing SM, I'm pretty sure their whole ordeal was of them not renewing their contracts, which led to speculations & investigations of their treatment at the company.
And since jtL didn't sue, I believe that's why they didn't get blacklisted like JYJ did. If I remember correctly, yes, it was pretty difficult for jtL to get on airwaves, but it wasn't like JYJ"s, a total ban (FOR 15ish YEARS!) jtL was on radio, music shows & variety.
But same with you, what would've it been like if H.O.T. hadn't split?
Hi i wonder will you make form best kpop songs of 2023?
SM (now Kakao) = Hotel California
You can check in but you can never leave.
(SM stans never realised that their fave's group never "disbanding" while sitting in SM basement is not something to celebrate if they really love their groups)
First 😊😊