I loved how much the books tapped into the King’s Guard vs how little the show acknowledged it. Can’t help but wish Arys Oakheart had a chance at redemption though 😢
The quote at the end is the Westeros world equivalent of a dad telling his son how much better the sports team/wrestlers were back in his day lol nostalgia is a hell of a drug
My Kingsguard rosters of all time: Ser Rickard Thorne, Ser Barristan Selmy, Ser Duncan the Tall, Ser Criston Cole the Kingmaker, Sandor Clegane, Ser Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Samgood of Sour Hill.
Men are Men whether they are from the past or right here in the present. I think one thing we can take from the story about the Kingsguard is that they were probably always a little corrupt and almost always used as a tool to keep certain families loyal to the crown. That would mean that the Kingsguard wasn’t this group of great Noble knights. That is something that history does to every member of the KG even the group we have in the main story will get that treatment in 100+ years the KG that saved the world from the others or some other bs a bard can think to sing about lol. The worst part is the “good” knights (the ones actually trying to be good and noble like Jamie/Barriston) will most likely be remembered as bad Knights “sir Barriston the first and only KG to be released from his vows for letting 2 Kings die on his watch” or “sir Jamie killed two Kings he was sworn to protect and wore a black coat instead of a white one” or something lol
Yeah, some of the KG were always a bit dubious, and some of them a little too keen to play on politics. For example we are seeing first hand criston cole's awful stunt as a kingsguard in HOTD breaking just about every vow possible and helping to instigate a war
One thing I want to bring up is that the Kingsguard was starting to fully become corrupted long before Robert's Rebellion killed off a lot of them, one example I'm thinking of being when in AFFC, Jaime recalls standing outside of Aerys' and Rhaella's bedchambers as the queen screamed from the sexual abuse, and asked another member of the Guard that they are sworn to protect her as well, and Darry, the other knight said "We are, but not from him." The order under Robert was still a lot more corrupt and crony-ish, but I think there's another seed of the Kingsguard's fall in that; the Kingsguard were designed to protect and be loyal to the king, but an interpretation that clearly had influence was "never be disloyal to the king" even when said king was hurting his family. While still there were chivalrous members like Arthur Dayne, that I think that it is also an element that I think could have been covered in the video.
Surprised there was no mention that Sandor Clegane was appointed to the Kingsguard and yet he wasn't even a knight at all. Not that he wanted to be knighted anyway.
Always found it weird how bad the Kingsguard was at the start of the series. You’d think Robert, a respected warrior king, would choose capable protectors or at least competent ones he could have a laugh with, but besides Barristan all of them were either unskilled, cruel or oathbreakers… except maybe Arys.
To be honest, meryn trant, mandon Moore and arys oakheart are probably good enough warriors to become kingsguard, the problem with Robert's kingsguard isnt just the fact that some of them are just not skilled warriors, but they lack any moral fiber that was present in past kingsguard, even some of the most morally dubious in the past had a few actions that validated their position, Criston Cole fought fiercely for his king, Gyles Belgrave chose to die rather than be sent to the wall for failing to protect aegon, and many of Maegor's kingsguard accepted their punishments, the kingsguard is not just about being a skilled warrior, its about honour and duty, guys like Mandon Moore could probably take on the average kingsguard like the cargyll twins or oswell whent, but compared to them he has no honour.
Part of that was because Robert needed to fill 5 spots quickly. Another part of that was Cersei. She just wanted knights who would be loyal to her and had enough influence on Robert to get her way.
In the end... its like most all other great establishments/organizations: often times they fall in professionalism or prestige, and even occasionally had flaws or bad apples during their pinnacle years/hay day.
I think of Oakheart’s end less of him being impulsive and wanting glory and more of him committing suicide due to the actions he had taken and not wanting to face the consequences.
No one ever said that Loras is deadly with a blade, we know he is a excellent jouster, but he is not that good with a sword, also he is 16-18 which yeah, he isnt in his prime yet nor does he have any battlefield experience yet, and when he finally does it ends with half his face melted off and severe injuries ... so nah i would say he has the look of a ideal kings guard, not the actual qualities, Jamie Lannister despite breaking his oath actually has a place on the guard because he is just so crazy skilled, he was considered the best swordsman in the realm after all(before losing his hand) ... there is this common misconception that before the white cloaks were this super gallant group of paragons of Chivalry and martial prowess but that is far from the truth, we know the 7 of the mad kings were a especially legendary group, but it wasnt always that way, there are many accounts of kings guards betraying their vows, splitting up to support their own power vying for the iron throne or even playing the game themselves, damn some even killed each other
lots of people, including Jamie himself see Loras as a younger him, lots of talent that is not quite polished yet and still before his choice whatever he becomes the next arthur dayne or smiling knight. If jaime himself compares the kid to himself, we can be quite sure he is a good fighter and not just have the singular skill or justing. He lost against brienne, who got an advantage over him in size weight and reach and survives encounters with 2 of the best fighters of westeros so thats no argument at all, that he was not good
@joelwhitnell4170 a tourney champion, true, but there are always 3 categories, Loras never distinguished himself in any category but the joust. that said, the fact that Jamie didnt lose to Brienne easily just goes to say how good he is, the guy was bound and starved, im pretty sure he would have minced and diced her otherwise. Jamies anointing? are you kidding me? Being anointed a Knight does make you better, Jamie was made a knight because he was a good killer, not because he is an "anointed knight" , the whole point of Jamie Lannister is that he is good but rotten and is starting to redeem himself ... this is sort of the Houds big thing, go read it
@joelwhitnell4170 NO, being knighted makes you a knight, being anointed is just a ceremony of the 7 that is not really practiced everywhere in Westeros because some people dont really believe in the gods, it consists of mainly religious tasks like prayer. standing vigil in a sept and mainly getting ANOINTED with the 7 OILS ... most knights have never done this ceremony(although nobles usually do), most Knights just get knighted on the battlefield by another knight, and that alone makes them a knight, i mean you seem to have forgotten that Dondarrion knighted all the outlaws in the BwB, they are knights, technically, practically they are just outlaws with a title that lost its meaning because they aren't trained, so yes they are knights, just not proper, or anointed for that matter, so next time read up before you go mocking people, also Jaime wasnt knighted for his "first kill" Jaime killed before getting knighted, he was the squire of Crakehall, who by all rights should have decided when Jaime was to earn his spurs, and therefore knighthood, but after seeing Jaime hold of the smiling knight and hold his own, Arthur Dayne decided he did deserve the title and knighted him himself after the clash ... oh there was NEVER a Battle of the Kingswood brotherhood, where did you get that crap from?, sure there were clashes and skirmishes, quite a few actually, the KB operated in the Kingswood for some time after all, they raided the Royal forces sent to hunt them down and the royal forces cracked down on their hideouts ... we are not talking big battlefields, we are talking skirmishes, raids, abductions, banditry... the Kingsguards were basically fighting a terrorist group, i think by "battle" you mean the final crackdown on the KB headquarters? you said "Jamie is obvs incredibly skilled however his anointing is open to interpretation as it wasn’t really earned and he was never loyal" what kind of crap is that man, he WAS anointed, and yes he DID earn it, he was knighted by ARTHUR freaking DAYNE for crying out loud, the whole 7 kingdoms knew about it, it was a Massive honor, we know this for a fact, no, Jaime wasn't loyal, but loyalty does not make you a knight, actually it does not have anything to do with knighthood, you are confusing Knighthood and fealty man, knighthood is a recognition of being an elite warrior with skills and gear to back it up fully trained ... a lord, retainer, vassalage, that is about loyalty, and a completely different thing also please tell me where you have read that Jamie wasn't chosen for his quality to enter the kings guard? Because he would not have gotten the cloak if Hightower thought he was unfit, he was also knighted by Dayne, the Kings guard the took him in and mentored him and he was considered their brother, the only one who didnt think Jaime was fit for the Guard was Selmy, and he only thought that Jaime was too young and "unripe" ... if he thought Jaime wasn't good enough you bet your ass he would have said so , and he wouldn't have because Jaimie was FAMOUS for his skill with the sword, so thats that
Thank you I really appreciate it! I did have some background music on this one, but it was probably way too quiet. And I am going to look into a better microphone soon. Thank you again for the input
I don't think it was confirmed Moore worked for Cersei, in fact it's quite likely he was working under Littlefinger like the Kettleblacks, Dontos Hollard, and Lothar Brune.
Can't believe I'm gonna defend a man hitting a child; but had Arys refused, Joffrey could have had him dismissed/killed and continued on with Boros and Merynt, who had NO reservations, ending with Sansa being hurt even more. Him opting to hit her just enough to look "real" and no more is probably the best thing he could have done to save her from the crueler (or, in Meryn's case, empty-shell obedience) actions of the others.
Ser Preston Greenfield, died protecting his King and the head of the faith. This is a far more noble end than Ser Arthur Dayne who died preventing a dying young woman from seeing her brother.
I never bought into Eddard Stark being a prefect Immaculate man. He did Jon dirty, he hid him like dirty secret bound for the night watch way to young. He could have done a lot more for Jon, like 1. legimaze his as a stark 2. given him too one of his banner men to raise when he saw hoe much Catelyn hated him. 3. Let Jon establish a cadet branch of house Stark and give him a small holdfast as Robbs Bannerman, or he could even a made him a a knight in service to the manderlys. instead he stripped him of his name made him a bastard and took him home rot winter fell were he was made to feel lesser his whole life whit no future in sight. Hell ned was not even gonna send Jon to the nights watch. Cat told him she would throw Jon out of his home the second ned left and he gave in to sending him to the watch. and no Jon wanted to go is not an excuse. Jon was a 14 bastard that told his whole life he is not a stark he has no place in winter fell and the watch is a noble calling. he had no idea what place the wall was Benign tried to talk him out of it.
I can totally see where you're coming from. I guess that's what they mean when they say ASOIAF really popularized the whole "morally grey characters" trope
Jon Snow was raised better than most illegitimates with free interaction with his siblings, education and martial training Joining the watch was also Jon's choice remember?
@@equusquaggaquagga536 was it really his choice though? He might have been raised better than most bastards but he was still a bastard and no one let him forgot that. And it’s not like he had any other prospects Ned made no plans for him. He was a 14 year child that thought he wax the one stain on Eddard Starks honourable cloak. He thought his only choice was to got to the watch if he had refused what was he supposed to do? He was a young bastard whit no money or name he would have ended up in the cold. If you think going to the watch is your only choice opposed to ending up homeless, starving and cold is it really a choice at all?
@ayiza8511 You are correct. He let Catilyn treat John like trash. He never corrected Sansa calling him half brother. Winterfell belonged to Ned. The support of the Tullys was less than the support of Robert Barathon. He could have made Caitlyn raise John or brought in another woman to do so. John was the North, Rob and even Ned had to much Southern in their hearts. The Stark family is full of Bastards. He should have lime you said made him legitimate and given him a Holdfast.
Barristan Jaime Loras Sandor Robert Strong/Gregor Balon Swann Arys Oakheart If you cherry pick the best fighters of the current stories kingsguard they might be able to take on the previous kingsguard.
Well, past Barristan will probably beat current Barristan, but unmaimed 31 year old Jaime can probably beat 17 year old Jaime. Robert Strong/Zombie Gregor can probably kill any of the previous Kingsguard except Barristan and Arthur Dayne, and I'm not totally sure on Sandor, but he's probably on the solid middle of the matchup. Loras is possibly the best jouster alive but in a melee I don't see him surviving against Aerys's Kingsguard. Balon Swann and Arys Oakheart is probably on par or slightly poorer than the less notable of Aerys's Kingsguard, such as Jonothan Darry, Oswell Whent, and Lewyn Martell. Gerold Hightower is pretty tough, but old as well, though if we're looking at them during their prime, he can probably take down a mojority of the ones on the list.
@@KaiHung-wv3ul I agree with everything you said except for what you said about Loras. Against the weaker members of Aery's Kingsuard I don't think he would have any problems considering he placed 2nd out of 116 people at the Melee of Bitterbridge. I honestly thought Arys Oakheart was the odd one out not Loras. I only included him because I couldn't think of anyone better. I think Balon Swann is on par with the guys you mentioned while Arys is not.
@@maxb8749 Yep, I put Balon on the same tier as Arys since we never see any big fights from him. Maybe I didn't phrase it very well but I put Loras above those two. What I meant was that he'll lose against a majority of Aerys's Kingsguard but not all of them. And I think his reputation is somewhat inflated.
@@KaiHung-wv3ul To be fair its expected that Loras loses against most of the mad king's kingsguard considering he's the 2nd or 3rd worst fighter on the list for the current kingsguard. I think Balon Swann is better or at least equal to Loras. We never see him fight but we know he's a frequent participant of tourneys and also said to be great with a morningstar.
Loras is fine. I don't think he was injured at all. The only men present during his "injury" were Tyrel men-at-arms. I don't think I have to say anymore. To what end? Idk, hopefully GRRM will let us know soon.
I loved how much the books tapped into the King’s Guard vs how little the show acknowledged it. Can’t help but wish Arys Oakheart had a chance at redemption though 😢
Agreed!
The showrunners were too lazy to even name the Seven od the Kingsgaurd because they were lazy. They were hacks from the beginning, since season 1.
The quote at the end is the Westeros world equivalent of a dad telling his son how much better the sports team/wrestlers were back in his day lol nostalgia is a hell of a drug
Haha that's a funny way to think of it!
@@ExploringFictionI feel
They were never good in morals but only in skill due to the grey morality of those they served
My Kingsguard rosters of all time: Ser Rickard Thorne, Ser Barristan Selmy, Ser Duncan the Tall, Ser Criston Cole the Kingmaker, Sandor Clegane, Ser Aemon the Dragonknight, Ser Samgood of Sour Hill.
Men are Men whether they are from the past or right here in the present. I think one thing we can take from the story about the Kingsguard is that they were probably always a little corrupt and almost always used as a tool to keep certain families loyal to the crown. That would mean that the Kingsguard wasn’t this group of great Noble knights. That is something that history does to every member of the KG even the group we have in the main story will get that treatment in 100+ years the KG that saved the world from the others or some other bs a bard can think to sing about lol. The worst part is the “good” knights (the ones actually trying to be good and noble like Jamie/Barriston) will most likely be remembered as bad Knights “sir Barriston the first and only KG to be released from his vows for letting 2 Kings die on his watch” or “sir Jamie killed two Kings he was sworn to protect and wore a black coat instead of a white one” or something lol
Yeah, some of the KG were always a bit dubious, and some of them a little too keen to play on politics. For example we are seeing first hand criston cole's awful stunt as a kingsguard in HOTD breaking just about every vow possible and helping to instigate a war
One thing I want to bring up is that the Kingsguard was starting to fully become corrupted long before Robert's Rebellion killed off a lot of them, one example I'm thinking of being when in AFFC, Jaime recalls standing outside of Aerys' and Rhaella's bedchambers as the queen screamed from the sexual abuse, and asked another member of the Guard that they are sworn to protect her as well, and Darry, the other knight said "We are, but not from him." The order under Robert was still a lot more corrupt and crony-ish, but I think there's another seed of the Kingsguard's fall in that; the Kingsguard were designed to protect and be loyal to the king, but an interpretation that clearly had influence was "never be disloyal to the king" even when said king was hurting his family. While still there were chivalrous members like Arthur Dayne, that I think that it is also an element that I think could have been covered in the video.
Good point!
Surprised there was no mention that Sandor Clegane was appointed to the Kingsguard and yet he wasn't even a knight at all. Not that he wanted to be knighted anyway.
Yep that's a great point, too!
You can tie a silk ribbon to a sword, it makes it pretty, but no less deadly.
Always found it weird how bad the Kingsguard was at the start of the series. You’d think Robert, a respected warrior king, would choose capable protectors or at least competent ones he could have a laugh with, but besides Barristan all of them were either unskilled, cruel or oathbreakers… except maybe Arys.
robert hated thinking, responsability and was overall not a goo person, he plain did not care
@@SingingSealRiana
Wouldn't say he was a truly bad person, at least not to say he was inherently evil at his core.
Nobody wanted to serve on the same kingsguard as The Kingslayer.
To be honest, meryn trant, mandon Moore and arys oakheart are probably good enough warriors to become kingsguard, the problem with Robert's kingsguard isnt just the fact that some of them are just not skilled warriors, but they lack any moral fiber that was present in past kingsguard, even some of the most morally dubious in the past had a few actions that validated their position, Criston Cole fought fiercely for his king, Gyles Belgrave chose to die rather than be sent to the wall for failing to protect aegon, and many of Maegor's kingsguard accepted their punishments, the kingsguard is not just about being a skilled warrior, its about honour and duty, guys like Mandon Moore could probably take on the average kingsguard like the cargyll twins or oswell whent, but compared to them he has no honour.
Part of that was because Robert needed to fill 5 spots quickly. Another part of that was Cersei. She just wanted knights who would be loyal to her and had enough influence on Robert to get her way.
In the end... its like most all other great establishments/organizations: often times they fall in professionalism or prestige, and even occasionally had flaws or bad apples during their pinnacle years/hay day.
I think of Oakheart’s end less of him being impulsive and wanting glory and more of him committing suicide due to the actions he had taken and not wanting to face the consequences.
I loved the video hope to see more!
Thanks!
No one ever said that Loras is deadly with a blade, we know he is a excellent jouster, but he is not that good with a sword, also he is 16-18 which yeah, he isnt in his prime yet nor does he have any battlefield experience yet, and when he finally does it ends with half his face melted off and severe injuries ... so nah i would say he has the look of a ideal kings guard, not the actual qualities, Jamie Lannister despite breaking his oath actually has a place on the guard because he is just so crazy skilled, he was considered the best swordsman in the realm after all(before losing his hand) ... there is this common misconception that before the white cloaks were this super gallant group of paragons of Chivalry and martial prowess but that is far from the truth, we know the 7 of the mad kings were a especially legendary group, but it wasnt always that way, there are many accounts of kings guards betraying their vows, splitting up to support their own power vying for the iron throne or even playing the game themselves, damn some even killed each other
lots of people, including Jamie himself see Loras as a younger him, lots of talent that is not quite polished yet and still before his choice whatever he becomes the next arthur dayne or smiling knight. If jaime himself compares the kid to himself, we can be quite sure he is a good fighter and not just have the singular skill or justing. He lost against brienne, who got an advantage over him in size weight and reach and survives encounters with 2 of the best fighters of westeros so thats no argument at all, that he was not good
@joelwhitnell4170 a tourney champion, true, but there are always 3 categories, Loras never distinguished himself in any category but the joust. that said, the fact that Jamie didnt lose to Brienne easily just goes to say how good he is, the guy was bound and starved, im pretty sure he would have minced and diced her otherwise. Jamies anointing? are you kidding me? Being anointed a Knight does make you better, Jamie was made a knight because he was a good killer, not because he is an "anointed knight" , the whole point of Jamie Lannister is that he is good but rotten and is starting to redeem himself ... this is sort of the Houds big thing, go read it
@joelwhitnell4170 NO, being knighted makes you a knight, being anointed is just a ceremony of the 7 that is not really practiced everywhere in Westeros because some people dont really believe in the gods, it consists of mainly religious tasks like prayer. standing vigil in a sept and mainly getting ANOINTED with the 7 OILS ... most knights have never done this ceremony(although nobles usually do), most Knights just get knighted on the battlefield by another knight, and that alone makes them a knight, i mean you seem to have forgotten that Dondarrion knighted all the outlaws in the BwB, they are knights, technically, practically they are just outlaws with a title that lost its meaning because they aren't trained, so yes they are knights, just not proper, or anointed for that matter, so next time read up before you go mocking people,
also Jaime wasnt knighted for his "first kill" Jaime killed before getting knighted, he was the squire of Crakehall, who by all rights should have decided when Jaime was to earn his spurs, and therefore knighthood, but after seeing Jaime hold of the smiling knight and hold his own, Arthur Dayne decided he did deserve the title and knighted him himself after the clash ... oh there was NEVER a Battle of the Kingswood brotherhood, where did you get that crap from?, sure there were clashes and skirmishes, quite a few actually, the KB operated in the Kingswood for some time after all, they raided the Royal forces sent to hunt them down and the royal forces cracked down on their hideouts ... we are not talking big battlefields, we are talking skirmishes, raids, abductions, banditry... the Kingsguards were basically fighting a terrorist group, i think by "battle" you mean the final crackdown on the KB headquarters?
you said "Jamie is obvs incredibly skilled however his anointing is open to interpretation as it wasn’t really earned and he was never loyal" what kind of crap is that man, he WAS anointed, and yes he DID earn it, he was knighted by ARTHUR freaking DAYNE for crying out loud, the whole 7 kingdoms knew about it, it was a Massive honor, we know this for a fact, no, Jaime wasn't loyal, but loyalty does not make you a knight, actually it does not have anything to do with knighthood, you are confusing Knighthood and fealty man, knighthood is a recognition of being an elite warrior with skills and gear to back it up fully trained ... a lord, retainer, vassalage, that is about loyalty, and a completely different thing
also please tell me where you have read that Jamie wasn't chosen for his quality to enter the kings guard? Because he would not have gotten the cloak if Hightower thought he was unfit, he was also knighted by Dayne, the Kings guard the took him in and mentored him and he was considered their brother, the only one who didnt think Jaime was fit for the Guard was Selmy, and he only thought that Jaime was too young and "unripe" ... if he thought Jaime wasn't good enough you bet your ass he would have said so , and he wouldn't have because Jaimie was FAMOUS for his skill with the sword, so thats that
@joelwhitnell4170 so did you read up o it? Id actually like to hear your thoughts on this
Sir Arys obviously didn't help Arianna. Myrcella is safe, it's her friend double that was there when the party was crashed by the Dorian's men.
Very well done
Thank you!
Been watching GOT videos for 8 years. This was good. Improve your mike and throw in some back music and you got something. Truly. Much respect.
Mic* Microphone*
Thank you I really appreciate it! I did have some background music on this one, but it was probably way too quiet. And I am going to look into a better microphone soon. Thank you again for the input
Are you Quinn the GM in disguise?
Haha I wish!
I was confused with Strong at first since I knew that the family was already wiped out.
Actually we don't know Ser Mandon Moore's reasons for attempting to kill Tyrion. While Tyrion believed it was Cersei we don't actually know for sure.
I don't think it was confirmed Moore worked for Cersei, in fact it's quite likely he was working under Littlefinger like the Kettleblacks, Dontos Hollard, and Lothar Brune.
Or Joffrey told him to do it.
Arys Oakheart did nothing wrong, who would stand against Arianne and remain loyal to Joffrey?
I would. It's not hard to be honorable and keep it in your pants.
Can't believe I'm gonna defend a man hitting a child; but had Arys refused, Joffrey could have had him dismissed/killed and continued on with Boros and Merynt, who had NO reservations, ending with Sansa being hurt even more. Him opting to hit her just enough to look "real" and no more is probably the best thing he could have done to save her from the crueler (or, in Meryn's case, empty-shell obedience) actions of the others.
True!
I would have folded to Arianne too
11:23 That is a stupid accusation. Why would it be his fault to be picked by Cersei?
Ser Preston Greenfield, died protecting his King and the head of the faith. This is a far more noble end than Ser Arthur Dayne who died preventing a dying young woman from seeing her brother.
It sounds like the Lannisters corrupt everything they touch.
I never bought into Eddard Stark being a prefect Immaculate man. He did Jon dirty, he hid him like dirty secret bound for the night watch way to young. He could have done a lot more for Jon, like 1. legimaze his as a stark 2. given him too one of his banner men to raise when he saw hoe much Catelyn hated him. 3. Let Jon establish a cadet branch of house Stark and give him a small holdfast as Robbs Bannerman, or he could even a made him a a knight in service to the manderlys. instead he stripped him of his name made him a bastard and took him home rot winter fell were he was made to feel lesser his whole life whit no future in sight. Hell ned was not even gonna send Jon to the nights watch. Cat told him she would throw Jon out of his home the second ned left and he gave in to sending him to the watch. and no Jon wanted to go is not an excuse. Jon was a 14 bastard that told his whole life he is not a stark he has no place in winter fell and the watch is a noble calling. he had no idea what place the wall was Benign tried to talk him out of it.
I can totally see where you're coming from. I guess that's what they mean when they say ASOIAF really popularized the whole "morally grey characters" trope
Jon Snow was raised better than most illegitimates with free interaction with his siblings, education and martial training
Joining the watch was also Jon's choice remember?
@@equusquaggaquagga536 was it really his choice though? He might have been raised better than most bastards but he was still a bastard and no one let him forgot that. And it’s not like he had any other prospects Ned made no plans for him. He was a 14 year child that thought he wax the one stain on Eddard Starks honourable cloak. He thought his only choice was to got to the watch if he had refused what was he supposed to do? He was a young bastard whit no money or name he would have ended up in the cold. If you think going to the watch is your only choice opposed to ending up homeless, starving and cold is it really a choice at all?
@ayiza8511 You are correct. He let Catilyn treat John like trash. He never corrected Sansa calling him half brother. Winterfell belonged to Ned. The support of the Tullys was less than the support of Robert Barathon. He could have made Caitlyn raise John or brought in another woman to do so. John was the North, Rob and even Ned had to much Southern in their hearts. The Stark family is full of Bastards. He should have lime you said made him legitimate and given him a Holdfast.
@@equusquaggaquagga536The Stark family is full of Bastards. They should have made John legitimate.
Barristan
Jaime
Loras
Sandor
Robert Strong/Gregor
Balon Swann
Arys Oakheart
If you cherry pick the best fighters of the current stories kingsguard they might be able to take on the previous kingsguard.
Well, past Barristan will probably beat current Barristan, but unmaimed 31 year old Jaime can probably beat 17 year old Jaime.
Robert Strong/Zombie Gregor can probably kill any of the previous Kingsguard except Barristan and Arthur Dayne, and I'm not totally sure on Sandor, but he's probably on the solid middle of the matchup.
Loras is possibly the best jouster alive but in a melee I don't see him surviving against Aerys's Kingsguard.
Balon Swann and Arys Oakheart is probably on par or slightly poorer than the less notable of Aerys's Kingsguard, such as Jonothan Darry, Oswell Whent, and Lewyn Martell.
Gerold Hightower is pretty tough, but old as well, though if we're looking at them during their prime, he can probably take down a mojority of the ones on the list.
@@KaiHung-wv3ul I agree with everything you said except for what you said about Loras. Against the weaker members of Aery's Kingsuard I don't think he would have any problems considering he placed 2nd out of 116 people at the Melee of Bitterbridge.
I honestly thought Arys Oakheart was the odd one out not Loras. I only included him because I couldn't think of anyone better. I think Balon Swann is on par with the guys you mentioned while Arys is not.
@@maxb8749 Yep, I put Balon on the same tier as Arys since we never see any big fights from him.
Maybe I didn't phrase it very well but I put Loras above those two. What I meant was that he'll lose against a majority of Aerys's Kingsguard but not all of them. And I think his reputation is somewhat inflated.
@@KaiHung-wv3ul To be fair its expected that Loras loses against most of the mad king's kingsguard considering he's the 2nd or 3rd worst fighter on the list for the current kingsguard.
I think Balon Swann is better or at least equal to Loras. We never see him fight but we know he's a frequent participant of tourneys and also said to be great with a morningstar.
@@maxb8749 I agree, it's purely an unfortunate lack of textual evidence.
Loras is fine. I don't think he was injured at all. The only men present during his "injury" were Tyrel men-at-arms. I don't think I have to say anymore.
To what end? Idk, hopefully GRRM will let us know soon.
It doesn't say they cant do it just no wife
Whoever responsible the artworks should stand trial. Such a poor quality.
Aeryss kings gaurd wasnt good dude they let him do horrible things while the watched
Good men lose most of their value after their head rolls off