in a few scenes you've showcased, Diavolo/King Crimson "touching" stuff can be explained after the "no interaction" rule was set even. For example, Narancia getting impaled works because everyone but Diavolo's fates still happen after time is skipped, and Diavolo killing him was just part of fate, he simply used king crimson to go undetected. Diavolo didn't interact with Narancia, Narancia was simply kinda lifted by some unknown force onto the bars because that's what needed to happen.
i really don't like that answer, as it just makes me question exactly how the original scene was supposed to play out. why did noone have their stands out by the end of the skip? surely they would've if an attack was fated to happen. why was everyone more or less in the same place as they were previously? they probably would've moved in the event of a blatant attack, either preparing a counter attack, or having gotten out of the way if diavolo targeted them. how did diavolo know this would happen? he has to project epitaph onto something to see a prediction, and i feel like someone probably wouldve gone "hey trish, whats that weird projection thing next to you?" if he did. but he didn't, he just skipped time and narancia was dead. noone there had any clue that narancias life was in immediate danger, including diavolo. the only way i can see this happening is if he thought about killing narancia, skipped time to see if it was fated, and somehow had noone notice until afterward. and like. dude, your team is still not out of the clear, being spatially unaware isn't a thing you do when an angry stripper wants you dead.
@@karb__ King Crimson is an extremely powerful and quick stand, as it turns out, and the time erase/skip ability is shown to be able to be triggered over very short periods of time. King Crimson could've very well have impaled Narancia on the metal bars quickly enough so that there was a delay between King Crimson coming out and everyone summoning their stands (which is plausible in the same universe where Jotaro could get himself a drink so quickly that even a professional gambler couldn't figure out how), then using time erase so that no one remembers seeing king crimson come out. In a similar vein, Diavolo might've just projected epitaph in a really discreet way, in the same universe where Joseph could hide an ENTIRE FUCKING THOMSON UNDER HIS JACKET. Also what's the game you're playing? It completely melted my brain when I first saw the footage
@@karb__ the viewing of epitaph on doppio's hair is probably a diagetic thing for the audience rather than a condition of its use, KC could monitor undetected until he sees a favorable outcome then skip over it so he A) doesnt expose himself B) doesnt have to deal with the consequences of having actually repostioned since his fate of chucking Orange boi up would move him. skips over the action but choses to stay in hiding so the action still happens instead Diavolo never reveals himself. as for how TF Orange boi got up there with no one reacting to it well. it is BS i wont argue, but KC is fast (see him smoking Silver Chariot) and we dont know *exactly* what happend. maybe he broke the bars before hand and all that was erased was him throwing naracia up then stopping the skip, so all that was skipped was a quick action. leading less time for the others to react and thus, little change after the skip. but yea. its gets less cool the more you think abt it have a good day lad. LOVED THE VID (dont be pressured to do jojo content exclusivly if this vid does well, altough i defos will tune in if ya choose to do so.)
@@TeeArCreep in the moments leading up to the scene, trish (in mistas body) always has eyes on her, even after the skip. so using epitaph would've been pretty damn hard, even if you were as discreet as possible. this leads me to believe that even if diavolo attacked within less than 5 seconds (accounting for the time it takes to break bars and impale someone, and also pass bullets into someones hand), at the very least SOMEONE would've made a face, or gotten closer, or been in a position to attack, with or without their stands. also the games raldis crackhouse, its super fun.
So, for the not being able to touch stuff in stopped time point, it's explained by the fact that only Diavolo is immune to fate in the stopped time. Anything he would've done still happens because it is the fate of the others. For example, it was fate that Trish's hand would be cut off and she would be taken away from Bucciarati.
then why didn't bucciarati's head move within the skip, instead of after it? he would've been facing in that direction after the skip, because you don't just cut someones hand off and have the person holding it *not* notice while its happening. i don't like the fate answer because it makes you think too much about a scene for which a surface level reading is all that you need.
You might not like the "Fate" explanation of how King Crimson works, but with everything we've seen, it is consistent. The gang not reacting at Narancias death by pulling out their stand is explained by the fact, that KC is incredibly fast and the fact he changes fate for him and the moment that leads up to the result. Bucciarati never reacting to Trish being kidnapped was because Diavolo was never there. Was Bucciarati supposed to react to air lifting Trish away in time that was deleted by KC? In my opinion, no. Same with Narancias death. Were they supposed to react to nothing lifting Narancia, breaking the bars and then impaling him in time that was literally erased from existence?
Exactly, I feel like people still do not fully grasp King Crimson and what it actually does, granted this is also because Araki didn't properly explain it in words and only hinted at all the details, but if one really analyses every scene, it's actually very easy to start seeing how King Crimson operates in a consistent way (granted since it's never directly brought up in the full detail, so scenes need to be reconstructed, like how linguists do dead languages etc.), but King Crimson actually can be explained in a fully consistent way that doesn't contradict anything and fits with the themes of JoJo and Part 5 in specific. It also reveals how King Crimson is way more broken and OP than many think and why Diavolo getting his punishment through GER for cheating/overwriting his own Fate is sort of expected and valid.
That happened in real time seconds though? It cant make sense. They wouldnt stay there reactionless when watching their friend get skewered into the gate. That was minimum 2 *real time* seconds.
1) you are the first youtuber I've watched who said "sorry i have sound problems today" and actually had sound problems i could hear 2) why out of ALL GAMES on ALL OF THE INTERNET when picking random game footage for your video, you chose the most eye-bleeding one? (besides all that, nice video, i liked. the music choice, 11:39... aahahahaha)
And starfinger makes sense, litterally all of star platinums power goes into extending his range for a short moment, while the rest of him has to stand completely still
upon closer inspection, star finger skirts by because stands were very much a new thing, and we dont know all the ins and outs yet. but still, it was funny and out of left field.
Well yes, but not quite. What's fated to happen _will_ happen one way or another, whether anyone sees it or not. Epitaph merely allows Diavolo/Doppio to see what is fated to happen in the next ten seconds, and then King Crimson allows Diavolo to defy his own fate by "erasing time" and turning the world around him ghostly for up to ten seconds, so that nothing can harm him. Everyone and everything other than Diavolo is totally bound by what Fate has decided, but they forget what happened in those ten seconds because those ten seconds kind of didn't exist.
In the scene where Nukesaku is put in the coffin, Joseph, Kakyoin and Polnareff are unaware, but Jotaro is the only one that explicitly states that they’re in danger. As he is unaware that DIO is stopped time, and was probably conscious during it, he would probably be aware that time is stopped. In the manga, Jotaro’s dialogue and conduct is different. On the last page of chapter 136, his first reaction to Nukesaku’s teleportation was: “Bastard, this is getting interesting”. He clearly saw something the others didn’t, which strongly implies people who can stop time are just passively conscious during other people’s stopped time. Jotaro was going to be a match for DIO anyway, he had no outstanding abilities, and it was extremely common for humanoid stands to have extraordinary combat abilities. The only inconsistency with stopped time is the final fight in part 6, with Made In Heaven. After his first timestop to scout MIH, and what Pucci is doing, his timestop is shortened. Jotaro explains, “My Ability… It’s shortened!” and then later in the fight, he says. “5 seconds is too short.” The first statement can only mean that he has less than the maximum seconds of stopped time, and the second statement says that he has 5 seconds, but needs more time. This is contradictory, because we know the human limit for stopped time is 5 seconds. The frequency of this timestop is open-ended. As timestop is stamina based, if you have enough you can use it as much as DIO possible, you’d just be capped at 5 seconds.
Honestly I think you are one of the few jojo fans that actually interpret the anime in the right way, I agree to most of the stuff you talked about in this video. But in my opinion the explanation many have given to king crimson's asspull actually makes sense. I mean yeah sure narancia being fated to die randomly in that situation is pretty forced but still, the explanation for that asspull is just too good and it works well in other instances, so personally I'll just close an eye. Regarding this asspull topic, I think that one of the factors that make jojo enjoyable despite the incoherences is how stands work in general. They derive from human minds and araki already "plays" with their ability a lot so it's easy to justify the majority of stand asspulls simply because their abilities are not fixed constants. Take d4c for example. In the first fight with valentine we see d4c do stuff different than what it did later, but nothing stops us from saying that the technique used by valentine in his first fight was just a sub-ability of d4c. Yeah sure Valentine made 3 different universes collide with eachother, mixing their events and their inhabitants, but later on he can only access other universes by stuffing himself between two masses....who cares? Maybe that was a different usage of d4c, maybe he can make a few universes collide togheter but he cannot make the same person meet their alternate universe self when doing this. Regardless of wheter we "play" with stands or not the incoherences in jojo are often redeemable because, just like you said, the execution is perfect, so it's easy to let some stuff slide.
I relate to this, for what I think this means, but i'm pretty sure it's just the way I thought at first, & this stuck around so I could comment on this, 'since were here', & 'in too deep' things, maybe.
I like how you portray Diavolo as a Lesbian because of his stereotypical flamboyant style, which is completely non sensical compared to his shadow diavolo form.
@@Ultimate_Hater75 if i had a nickle for every time a flamboyant man could pass for lesbian in part 5, i would have 5 nickles. Which isnt a lot but its still odd that it happened 5 times. (In case you were wondering, its diavolo, bruno, abbachio, risotto and narancia)
amazing video but you did take a little to long to start talking about jojo when the video is about jojo. I think 3 examples of a story making sense would have been enough
I’m taking the path of least resistance, & will sacrifice getting my asks together, & the answers you may for them, see ye never, maybe, baby! (tho since _this_ isn't an ask: 1:00 since it seems ye watched the whole of Viva Reverie's video, --I mean sometimes it redlines like ye've watched the whole thing but haven't, but i'm going with what I see for this to happen-- you may remember when Rohan talks on the hand scene. this video feels like those words, longer. + something, someone else said, but not gonna go back to where in the vid made me think o it, cuz on that, to stress this _again_, I have questions, I willn't ask of them, cuz of laze & anx. (these comments realize how much i skirt over asking, well at least in these states, tho it's not like I can remeber anything to contradict or support this, I think I tell too much, I known't on how people comment by what they do... on point & off point, most the asks are about the ways of your say, not the point you we're making, by what I can grasp here. & on the point, I don't know how to feel about it, besides, _sky blue_, oh right, that graph. Saying thing sof me like you got it, the inexperience with sharing shows, & I think i'm sharing myself into a corner. Think i'm, 'just asking for it', as it's called. what's 'it'? From trepidation, this took so long I forgot, so here's a hunk o hope hurled in your general metaphorical, digital direction that you'd get that. & um, this.
I don’t know, Steven has literally swapped bodies in his dreams before. I didn’t think Astral Projection was an unusual power to have. And for Infinity Train, they didn’t need to change the programming. They just needed to convince the Conductor that they could solve the glitch in the system The Star vs TFOE one is accurate though. And the previous ones are not perfectly executed. I just didn’t think they were as bad as they were described
the issue is that the power comes out of nowhere. and thats fine when SU is being a saturday morning cartoon, like in steven floats and the new lars, but its not ok when you use that same logic to resolve a large conflict. hm... youre making me think more on book 2's ending. perhaps ill re-examine it and make a video.
you know what, thats on me. bad line read. we dont ever see it directly but its very much so implied. if i could re-write that, i'd have it say "so in his first scene its implied that he touches things in skipped time."
I have a few thoughts about the video, TLDR good video but really all over the place and doesn't feel super focused and I have some issues with your point overall: 1. You reference waaaaay to many different properties for something that's meant to be a JoJo video, I have barely seen/played any of the other media you reference in the video and piggybacking off another comment I saw it also took way too long to actually get to the content of the video: King Crimson. This made the video a bit confusing and also way to niche as you need to be a: Steven Universe fan, Homestuck fan, Infinity Train fan, Ace Attorney fan, JoJo fan, Rick & Morty fan, etc. to properly follow the video. 2. II think you combine a lot of things, for example bringing up how good Diavolo's character scenes are as proof of good execution, when that's just good...character writing? His stand is really confusing when you really start to think about it (I understand everything EXCEPT how he can still do shit like throw blood on people) and I think its fair when people bring this up as a flaw and being essentially told to "not worry about it because it's cool" is a hard pill to swallow for the main villain of the part. You call this the mark of a good writer, but I'd argue that JoJo's battle writing is at its best when all abilities are fully known and are used in logical ways that at the end make you go "holy SHIT that was 1 trillion IQ.", I think of fights like Prosciutto & Pesci, Planet Waves, etc. those fights are still cool as hell, but also don't have any confusion about what is happening or how an ability works. 3. I agree Diavolo is amazing in every scene he is in lol. I think he commands a scene just as much as every other jojo villain and is super intimidating to boot, also helps he has one of the best fights (Doppio vs. Risoto), but I can also see why other people dislike him as a villain as well. either way glad to see a smaller creator getting their vids out there! Keep up the hard work 🥳🥳
hi, thanks for the comment! i agree that it did take me a bit too long to get into the meat of the video, and i plan to fix that for later projects. hm... i think youre right about me lumping together observations, like diavolos character work and the execution of the story. but i'd say that its still good execution, by way of diavolo having good writing. i'll say that jojos writing is really good when stand users exploit their powers and tell the viewer just how it works, yeah. but i still find it interesting what king crimson does instead of that. diavolo is shrouded in mystery, and a lot of the confusion brought on by him and his stand in universe is because of that. sometimes it gets inconsistent though, either intentionally or accidentally, so it compensates for its inconsistencies by being super cool. and while that may work, you still run the risk of the inconsistencies being too much for some people, because they'd rather have their story make sense 100% of the time. and thats a valid thing to want, i can totally see how people would bounce right off diavolo for that reason alone.
Actually, it does make sense, you just don't understand how the ability works. King Crimson only erases what happens to Diavolo, it doesn't erase Diavolo's actions. So if Diavolo were to skip over himself stealing Trish, it would still happen.
@@karb__ that's normal, it doesn't contradict anything. Stuff happens during it, it's just that they do what they normally would do as if Diavolo never attacked (but KEEPING the results of his actions that never actually happened to his target because of Epitaph predicting them as part of target's fate, but only to the target of Epitaph, nobody else). So why Trish keeps handing Mista his bullets (and dropping 4 for symbolic significance of doom that happened afterwards), just like when Bruno acts as if Trish was still with him and others as if Narancia was still alive, because it's simply that Diavolo changed/erased his fate and with it also their memories of this segment and more importantly ALSO their reactions to his erased action that never happened = no reaction exists as a result since it rests on Diavolo's fate being unchanged and him actually carrying out the action/attack. It's not they don't move like in time stop, it's that Bruno doesn't move because he's holding Trish's hand calmly as if she was there with him, standing still, waiting calmly with her to reach the top. Narancia the same, it's as if he was still there unharmed, so Trish keeps handing Mista bullets and others waiting behind the pillars, standing still or whatever they would do if Diavolo never attacked in the first place. But them being targets of Epitaph do get "teleported" because if Epitaph shows that Trish ends up without her hand in Diavolo's arms under the elevator and that Narancia ends up dead on the bars, it happens to them, but since Diavolo erased his the action that did this, reactions of others to this fact are also erased, only Narancia and Trish's fates being original and unchanged (because the reaction of others is actually part of Diavolo's fated action, not really resting on them - if Diavolo never actually attacked it's obvious they wouldn't just suddenly have their Stands ready and looking up at dead Narancia, but due to Epitaph showing them before using King Crimson, Narancia and Trish are still met with the predicted result of Diavolo's now already never realised actions)
Whats your point with crazy diamond? it can fix disasempled things just fine, as seen with the motercycle thats taken apart pretty cleanly Dio and jotaro werent "flying", they were pushed around by their stands The marilyn manson fight actually had simple rules that the gang found multiple ways around. Creative writing isnt a flaw.
crazy diamond beat the shit out of the motorcycle until it came apart, multiple pieces were broken, and he fixed it before he hit the ground. dio and jotaro did both, i didnt include it but jotaro literally jumps in mid air one time, so sky physics arent exactly working. at the very least they can levitate (but only when its cool) the rules for the game were 1. they must make 100 passes without the ball touching the ground 2. they have to catch and throw the miraschon cant move or raise her voice 3. the players must be 3 meters apart and no closer 4. they cant hold onto the ball for more than 10 seconds miraschon moves immediately after jolyne tells her not to, merilyn manson appears when the ball never touched the ground (we can rule out the pass taking longer than 10 seconds because miraschon admits to not being able to prove how she lost), and the only rule that stays consistent is the 10 second rule. creative writing isnt a flaw, but i never said it was. i was actually praising the scene.
@@karb__ I forgot to type „considered cheating“. Sorry about the confusion. I think it’s weird that Marilyn Manson considers Kiss bringing the ball back cheating but when Jolyne does basically the same thing, it’s fair game
Star Platinum can stop time when Jotaro is first introduced; he pulls things into his cell out of nowhere, not just sneakily, but instantly. Same applies to the D'arby Sr fight. Suddenly, cigarette. No, D'arby isn't just out of his mind and not noticing something as obvious as a massive cigar in Jotaro's mouth, that actually just instantaneously apparated inside of Jotaro's mouth during stopped time.
Basically speaking, he removes himself from his own fate, and Epitaph lets him see what'll happen in the future. So lets say You're Diavolo and see yourself in the future, revealing himself to take Trish out of the elevator. You cut that part out by skipping time, and since you only escape your own fate, Trish's fate is to be cut from Bucciarati, so she moves from Bucciarati to below the elevator, even if he didn't do anything during skipped time. Same with Narancia. He removes the consequences of his own actions. But he can only do this when he's already predicted that he's going to do something, because he can't touch things in stopped time. Or at least that's my rationalization, lol Heres a video explaining it better th-cam.com/video/i-ZiDJw_Sns/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUaaG93IGRvZXMga2luZyBjcmltc29uIHdvcms%3D\ Basically where I got my understanding of, its really convoluted tho. so technically is isn't inconsistent, but I don't know if this guy realizes that its a rationalization (Even if its a really good one) and not how Araki was thinking when he wrote it.
Doesn't explain why Bucciarati didn't move whatsoever during the skipped time. If Trish were stolen from him, you would think he would attempt to retrieve her. “… or Diavolo's ability was conflated with The World's ability to stop time.” - Rohan Kishibe, Viva Reverie's “Giorno Explains King Crimson”
@@gamerdomain6618 Those two things can't be conflated, as time stop can be worked around, while the time skip can't. Let's say you know Jotaro is about to stop time but you want to kill him, we couldn't possibly; unless he has someone with him you can target instead and he won't have enough time within time stop to save them while also keeping himself out of the way. You could also argue that if you keep your moves wide or unpredictable, you could potentially hit him after time stop ends. But with time erase, you have no chance. Everything that is fated to happen by Diavolo's hands, will happen. If he is fated to save the person with him, he can just skip past that time and that person will be saved but he doesn't have to put himself in danger, as he could stay where he is or relocate, and there is nothing you could do about that, it is fated to be like that. You also can not hit him with something unpredictable or wide, since he will be able to see through it in the time skip and can attack accordingly. The only workaround seemed to be with Buccarati when he ran away, but he had the perfect ability for running away in a way that is almost impossible to see. Also I'm pretty sure it does explain why Buccarati didn't move his head. No one seemingly does anything within the time skip that they weren't already planning before it started, as they can not react to changes within time skip. This is why no one reacts to what Diavolo does within time skip, yes it is fated to happen, but they did not experience it, so they did not react to it and kept going as if nothing happened. That is why Mista gets the bullets handed to him during time skip but doesn't realize, the act of Trish given them was already going through her mind and body, so she did it in the skip, but Mista didn't see himself being given more when he asked, so he was not ready to help protect everyone yet. TL:DR on this is that They do what they were gonna do before the skip, but can't react to anything in it so that is why they are never in a position they would have been if the skipped event had happened outside of skipped time.
@@gamerdomain6618 because Diavolo being the creator of the action that would produce the reaction of Bruno (Bruno not being the target shown by Epitaph) erased his action that would produce the reaction, since it's part of Diavolo's fate that was changed/erased, Bruno acted as if nothing changed and was calmly holding Trish's hand, acting as if she was there still, waiting with her calmly to reach the top, standing still... this is what would happen if Diavolo never attacked and because Diavolo's fate of attacking was changed by Diavolo to not actually attacking and carrying out the action, thus carrying with it Bruno's reaction (only when Diavolo is the one that starts it, not when he receives it, then others move normally), it never actually happened, Diavolo never attacked in the first place so Bruno had not reason to react in any way. But since Epitaph is absolute, if it showed that Trish ends up in Diavolo's hands below the Elevator with her hand severed (as what would happen if Diavolo didn't use King Crimson), she does, but if Epitaph never showed Bruno in the prediction, Bruno acts as if Diavolo never attacked since he's not bound to this fated result of Diavolo attacking. This is how it makes sense, imo while being consistent with King Crimson's power of fate erasure for Diavolo's actions/fate.
in a few scenes you've showcased, Diavolo/King Crimson "touching" stuff can be explained after the "no interaction" rule was set even. For example, Narancia getting impaled works because everyone but Diavolo's fates still happen after time is skipped, and Diavolo killing him was just part of fate, he simply used king crimson to go undetected. Diavolo didn't interact with Narancia, Narancia was simply kinda lifted by some unknown force onto the bars because that's what needed to happen.
ive got a peer reviewed study here *progressive guitar riff*
...
...
it says-
it says you're dead... *guitar riff*
i really don't like that answer, as it just makes me question exactly how the original scene was supposed to play out.
why did noone have their stands out by the end of the skip? surely they would've if an attack was fated to happen.
why was everyone more or less in the same place as they were previously? they probably would've moved in the event of a blatant attack, either preparing a counter attack, or having gotten out of the way if diavolo targeted them.
how did diavolo know this would happen? he has to project epitaph onto something to see a prediction, and i feel like someone probably wouldve gone "hey trish, whats that weird projection thing next to you?" if he did. but he didn't, he just skipped time and narancia was dead. noone there had any clue that narancias life was in immediate danger, including diavolo.
the only way i can see this happening is if he thought about killing narancia, skipped time to see if it was fated, and somehow had noone notice until afterward. and like. dude, your team is still not out of the clear, being spatially unaware isn't a thing you do when an angry stripper wants you dead.
@@karb__ King Crimson is an extremely powerful and quick stand, as it turns out, and the time erase/skip ability is shown to be able to be triggered over very short periods of time. King Crimson could've very well have impaled Narancia on the metal bars quickly enough so that there was a delay between King Crimson coming out and everyone summoning their stands (which is plausible in the same universe where Jotaro could get himself a drink so quickly that even a professional gambler couldn't figure out how), then using time erase so that no one remembers seeing king crimson come out. In a similar vein, Diavolo might've just projected epitaph in a really discreet way, in the same universe where Joseph could hide an ENTIRE FUCKING THOMSON UNDER HIS JACKET.
Also what's the game you're playing? It completely melted my brain when I first saw the footage
@@karb__ the viewing of epitaph on doppio's hair is probably a diagetic thing for the audience rather than a condition of its use, KC could monitor undetected until he sees a favorable outcome then skip over it so he A) doesnt expose himself B) doesnt have to deal with the consequences of having actually repostioned since his fate of chucking Orange boi up would move him. skips over the action but choses to stay in hiding so the action still happens instead Diavolo never reveals himself.
as for how TF Orange boi got up there with no one reacting to it well. it is BS i wont argue, but KC is fast (see him smoking Silver Chariot) and we dont know *exactly* what happend. maybe he broke the bars before hand and all that was erased was him throwing naracia up then stopping the skip, so all that was skipped was a quick action. leading less time for the others to react and thus, little change after the skip.
but yea. its gets less cool the more you think abt it
have a good day lad. LOVED THE VID (dont be pressured to do jojo content exclusivly if this vid does well, altough i defos will tune in if ya choose to do so.)
@@TeeArCreep in the moments leading up to the scene, trish (in mistas body) always has eyes on her, even after the skip. so using epitaph would've been pretty damn hard, even if you were as discreet as possible. this leads me to believe that even if diavolo attacked within less than 5 seconds (accounting for the time it takes to break bars and impale someone, and also pass bullets into someones hand), at the very least SOMEONE would've made a face, or gotten closer, or been in a position to attack, with or without their stands.
also the games raldis crackhouse, its super fun.
So, for the not being able to touch stuff in stopped time point, it's explained by the fact that only Diavolo is immune to fate in the stopped time. Anything he would've done still happens because it is the fate of the others. For example, it was fate that Trish's hand would be cut off and she would be taken away from Bucciarati.
then why didn't bucciarati's head move within the skip, instead of after it? he would've been facing in that direction after the skip, because you don't just cut someones hand off and have the person holding it *not* notice while its happening.
i don't like the fate answer because it makes you think too much about a scene for which a surface level reading is all that you need.
Crack crack crack the egg into the bowl
You might not like the "Fate" explanation of how King Crimson works, but with everything we've seen, it is consistent. The gang not reacting at Narancias death by pulling out their stand is explained by the fact, that KC is incredibly fast and the fact he changes fate for him and the moment that leads up to the result. Bucciarati never reacting to Trish being kidnapped was because Diavolo was never there. Was Bucciarati supposed to react to air lifting Trish away in time that was deleted by KC? In my opinion, no. Same with Narancias death. Were they supposed to react to nothing lifting Narancia, breaking the bars and then impaling him in time that was literally erased from existence?
Exactly, I feel like people still do not fully grasp King Crimson and what it actually does, granted this is also because Araki didn't properly explain it in words and only hinted at all the details, but if one really analyses every scene, it's actually very easy to start seeing how King Crimson operates in a consistent way (granted since it's never directly brought up in the full detail, so scenes need to be reconstructed, like how linguists do dead languages etc.), but King Crimson actually can be explained in a fully consistent way that doesn't contradict anything and fits with the themes of JoJo and Part 5 in specific. It also reveals how King Crimson is way more broken and OP than many think and why Diavolo getting his punishment through GER for cheating/overwriting his own Fate is sort of expected and valid.
That happened in real time seconds though? It cant make sense. They wouldnt stay there reactionless when watching their friend get skewered into the gate. That was minimum 2 *real time* seconds.
1) you are the first youtuber I've watched who said "sorry i have sound problems today" and actually had sound problems i could hear
2) why out of ALL GAMES on ALL OF THE INTERNET when picking random game footage for your video, you chose the most eye-bleeding one?
(besides all that, nice video, i liked. the music choice, 11:39... aahahahaha)
And starfinger makes sense, litterally all of star platinums power goes into extending his range for a short moment, while the rest of him has to stand completely still
upon closer inspection, star finger skirts by because stands were very much a new thing, and we dont know all the ins and outs yet. but still, it was funny and out of left field.
Epitaph makes it so what it predicts is fated to happen
So when diavolo erases time to avoid fate it still happens
Even when he doesn't do it
Well yes, but not quite. What's fated to happen _will_ happen one way or another, whether anyone sees it or not. Epitaph merely allows Diavolo/Doppio to see what is fated to happen in the next ten seconds, and then King Crimson allows Diavolo to defy his own fate by "erasing time" and turning the world around him ghostly for up to ten seconds, so that nothing can harm him. Everyone and everything other than Diavolo is totally bound by what Fate has decided, but they forget what happened in those ten seconds because those ten seconds kind of didn't exist.
The explanation:😒
RALDI’S CRACKHOUSE:YES
King Crimson is definitely my favorite stand in the series, and just like his powers, i dont think i need to explain why
YOU
YOU GET IT!!!
as someone whose favorite song is "21st Century Schizoid Man", and pfps are usually the band, i definitely agree lmao 🔥🔥
In the scene where Nukesaku is put in the coffin, Joseph, Kakyoin and Polnareff are unaware, but Jotaro is the only one that explicitly states that they’re in danger. As he is unaware that DIO is stopped time, and was probably conscious during it, he would probably be aware that time is stopped.
In the manga, Jotaro’s dialogue and conduct is different. On the last page of chapter 136, his first reaction to Nukesaku’s teleportation was: “Bastard, this is getting interesting”. He clearly saw something the others didn’t, which strongly implies people who can stop time are just passively conscious during other people’s stopped time.
Jotaro was going to be a match for DIO anyway, he had no outstanding abilities, and it was extremely common for humanoid stands to have extraordinary combat abilities.
The only inconsistency with stopped time is the final fight in part 6, with Made In Heaven. After his first timestop to scout MIH, and what Pucci is doing, his timestop is shortened. Jotaro explains, “My Ability… It’s shortened!” and then later in the fight, he says. “5 seconds is too short.” The first statement can only mean that he has less than the maximum seconds of stopped time, and the second statement says that he has 5 seconds, but needs more time.
This is contradictory, because we know the human limit for stopped time is 5 seconds. The frequency of this timestop is open-ended. As timestop is stamina based, if you have enough you can use it as much as DIO possible, you’d just be capped at 5 seconds.
I waited 10:12 minutes for you to actually talk about Diavolo and king crimson 😭
Honestly I think you are one of the few jojo fans that actually interpret the anime in the right way, I agree to most of the stuff you talked about in this video. But in my opinion the explanation many have given to king crimson's asspull actually makes sense. I mean yeah sure narancia being fated to die randomly in that situation is pretty forced but still, the explanation for that asspull is just too good and it works well in other instances, so personally I'll just close an eye. Regarding this asspull topic, I think that one of the factors that make jojo enjoyable despite the incoherences is how stands work in general. They derive from human minds and araki already "plays" with their ability a lot so it's easy to justify the majority of stand asspulls simply because their abilities are not fixed constants. Take d4c for example. In the first fight with valentine we see d4c do stuff different than what it did later, but nothing stops us from saying that the technique used by valentine in his first fight was just a sub-ability of d4c. Yeah sure Valentine made 3 different universes collide with eachother, mixing their events and their inhabitants, but later on he can only access other universes by stuffing himself between two masses....who cares? Maybe that was a different usage of d4c, maybe he can make a few universes collide togheter but he cannot make the same person meet their alternate universe self when doing this. Regardless of wheter we "play" with stands or not the incoherences in jojo are often redeemable because, just like you said, the execution is perfect, so it's easy to let some stuff slide.
i both have no clue what you said and fully understand what you said
I relate to this, for what I think this means, but i'm pretty sure it's just the way I thought at first, & this stuck around so I could comment on this, 'since were here', & 'in too deep' things, maybe.
Cool video
thanks!
fire
Homestuck jumpscare
Abuse is hilarious and you didn’t fix the audio problems btw
i heavily resonate with this description
I like how you portray Diavolo as a Lesbian because of his stereotypical flamboyant style, which is completely non sensical compared to his shadow diavolo form.
@@Ultimate_Hater75 if i had a nickle for every time a flamboyant man could pass for lesbian in part 5, i would have 5 nickles. Which isnt a lot but its still odd that it happened 5 times.
(In case you were wondering, its diavolo, bruno, abbachio, risotto and narancia)
🔥🔥🔥
amazing video but you did take a little to long to start talking about jojo when the video is about jojo. I think 3 examples of a story making sense would have been enough
good point... and thank you!
Counter opinion here. I actually really enjoyed your preamble and context the subject at hand.
I’m taking the path of least resistance, & will sacrifice getting my asks together, & the answers you may for them, see ye never, maybe, baby! (tho since _this_ isn't an ask: 1:00 since it seems ye watched the whole of Viva Reverie's video, --I mean sometimes it redlines like ye've watched the whole thing but haven't, but i'm going with what I see for this to happen-- you may remember when Rohan talks on the hand scene. this video feels like those words, longer. + something, someone else said, but not gonna go back to where in the vid made me think o it, cuz on that, to stress this _again_, I have questions, I willn't ask of them, cuz of laze & anx.
(these comments realize how much i skirt over asking, well at least in these states, tho it's not like I can remeber anything to contradict or support this, I think I tell too much, I known't on how people comment by what they do... on point & off point, most the asks are about the ways of your say, not the point you we're making, by what I can grasp here. & on the point, I don't know how to feel about it, besides, _sky blue_, oh right, that graph.
Saying thing sof me like you got it, the inexperience with sharing shows, & I think i'm sharing myself into a corner. Think i'm, 'just asking for it', as it's called. what's 'it'? From trepidation, this took so long I forgot, so here's a hunk o hope hurled in your general metaphorical, digital direction that you'd get that. & um, this.
I don’t know, Steven has literally swapped bodies in his dreams before. I didn’t think Astral Projection was an unusual power to have.
And for Infinity Train, they didn’t need to change the programming. They just needed to convince the Conductor that they could solve the glitch in the system
The Star vs TFOE one is accurate though. And the previous ones are not perfectly executed. I just didn’t think they were as bad as they were described
the issue is that the power comes out of nowhere. and thats fine when SU is being a saturday morning cartoon, like in steven floats and the new lars, but its not ok when you use that same logic to resolve a large conflict.
hm... youre making me think more on book 2's ending. perhaps ill re-examine it and make a video.
10:52
Gonna show evidence of this or are you just gonna not show him touching things in skipped time?
you know what, thats on me. bad line read. we dont ever see it directly but its very much so implied. if i could re-write that, i'd have it say "so in his first scene its implied that he touches things in skipped time."
I have a few thoughts about the video, TLDR good video but really all over the place and doesn't feel super focused and I have some issues with your point overall:
1. You reference waaaaay to many different properties for something that's meant to be a JoJo video, I have barely seen/played any of the other media you reference in the video and piggybacking off another comment I saw it also took way too long to actually get to the content of the video: King Crimson. This made the video a bit confusing and also way to niche as you need to be a: Steven Universe fan, Homestuck fan, Infinity Train fan, Ace Attorney fan, JoJo fan, Rick & Morty fan, etc. to properly follow the video.
2. II think you combine a lot of things, for example bringing up how good Diavolo's character scenes are as proof of good execution, when that's just good...character writing? His stand is really confusing when you really start to think about it (I understand everything EXCEPT how he can still do shit like throw blood on people) and I think its fair when people bring this up as a flaw and being essentially told to "not worry about it because it's cool" is a hard pill to swallow for the main villain of the part. You call this the mark of a good writer, but I'd argue that JoJo's battle writing is at its best when all abilities are fully known and are used in logical ways that at the end make you go "holy SHIT that was 1 trillion IQ.", I think of fights like Prosciutto & Pesci, Planet Waves, etc. those fights are still cool as hell, but also don't have any confusion about what is happening or how an ability works.
3. I agree Diavolo is amazing in every scene he is in lol. I think he commands a scene just as much as every other jojo villain and is super intimidating to boot, also helps he has one of the best fights (Doppio vs. Risoto), but I can also see why other people dislike him as a villain as well.
either way glad to see a smaller creator getting their vids out there! Keep up the hard work 🥳🥳
hi, thanks for the comment! i agree that it did take me a bit too long to get into the meat of the video, and i plan to fix that for later projects.
hm... i think youre right about me lumping together observations, like diavolos character work and the execution of the story. but i'd say that its still good execution, by way of diavolo having good writing.
i'll say that jojos writing is really good when stand users exploit their powers and tell the viewer just how it works, yeah. but i still find it interesting what king crimson does instead of that.
diavolo is shrouded in mystery, and a lot of the confusion brought on by him and his stand in universe is because of that. sometimes it gets inconsistent though, either intentionally or accidentally, so it compensates for its inconsistencies by being super cool. and while that may work, you still run the risk of the inconsistencies being too much for some people, because they'd rather have their story make sense 100% of the time. and thats a valid thing to want, i can totally see how people would bounce right off diavolo for that reason alone.
Actually, it does make sense, you just don't understand how the ability works. King Crimson only erases what happens to Diavolo, it doesn't erase Diavolo's actions. So if Diavolo were to skip over himself stealing Trish, it would still happen.
Trish hands mista his bullets during a skip, it doesnt only erase diavolos actions.
@@karb__ I don't see how that contradicts what I said. Negative things that happen TO DIAVOLO get erased. Nothing else does.
@@karb__ that's normal, it doesn't contradict anything. Stuff happens during it, it's just that they do what they normally would do as if Diavolo never attacked (but KEEPING the results of his actions that never actually happened to his target because of Epitaph predicting them as part of target's fate, but only to the target of Epitaph, nobody else). So why Trish keeps handing Mista his bullets (and dropping 4 for symbolic significance of doom that happened afterwards), just like when Bruno acts as if Trish was still with him and others as if Narancia was still alive, because it's simply that Diavolo changed/erased his fate and with it also their memories of this segment and more importantly ALSO their reactions to his erased action that never happened = no reaction exists as a result since it rests on Diavolo's fate being unchanged and him actually carrying out the action/attack. It's not they don't move like in time stop, it's that Bruno doesn't move because he's holding Trish's hand calmly as if she was there with him, standing still, waiting calmly with her to reach the top. Narancia the same, it's as if he was still there unharmed, so Trish keeps handing Mista bullets and others waiting behind the pillars, standing still or whatever they would do if Diavolo never attacked in the first place. But them being targets of Epitaph do get "teleported" because if Epitaph shows that Trish ends up without her hand in Diavolo's arms under the elevator and that Narancia ends up dead on the bars, it happens to them, but since Diavolo erased his the action that did this, reactions of others to this fact are also erased, only Narancia and Trish's fates being original and unchanged (because the reaction of others is actually part of Diavolo's fated action, not really resting on them - if Diavolo never actually attacked it's obvious they wouldn't just suddenly have their Stands ready and looking up at dead Narancia, but due to Epitaph showing them before using King Crimson, Narancia and Trish are still met with the predicted result of Diavolo's now already never realised actions)
Whats your point with crazy diamond? it can fix disasempled things just fine, as seen with the motercycle thats taken apart pretty cleanly
Dio and jotaro werent "flying", they were pushed around by their stands
The marilyn manson fight actually had simple rules that the gang found multiple ways around. Creative writing isnt a flaw.
crazy diamond beat the shit out of the motorcycle until it came apart, multiple pieces were broken, and he fixed it before he hit the ground.
dio and jotaro did both, i didnt include it but jotaro literally jumps in mid air one time, so sky physics arent exactly working. at the very least they can levitate (but only when its cool)
the rules for the game were
1. they must make 100 passes without the ball touching the ground
2. they have to catch and throw the miraschon cant move or raise her voice
3. the players must be 3 meters apart and no closer
4. they cant hold onto the ball for more than 10 seconds
miraschon moves immediately after jolyne tells her not to, merilyn manson appears when the ball never touched the ground (we can rule out the pass taking longer than 10 seconds because miraschon admits to not being able to prove how she lost), and the only rule that stays consistent is the 10 second rule.
creative writing isnt a flaw, but i never said it was. i was actually praising the scene.
@@karb__Yeah it’s weird how Kiss bringing the ball back before it hits the ground but Jolyne doing the same with Stone Free isn‘t but hey, it’s badass
@@geschnitztekiste4111 jolyne breifly forgets that shes a jojo, a family with the words "big brain" etched into their DNA, lmao
@@karb__ I forgot to type „considered cheating“. Sorry about the confusion. I think it’s weird that Marilyn Manson considers Kiss bringing the ball back cheating but when Jolyne does basically the same thing, it’s fair game
Star Platinum can stop time when Jotaro is first introduced; he pulls things into his cell out of nowhere, not just sneakily, but instantly.
Same applies to the D'arby Sr fight. Suddenly, cigarette. No, D'arby isn't just out of his mind and not noticing something as obvious as a massive cigar in Jotaro's mouth, that actually just instantaneously apparated inside of Jotaro's mouth during stopped time.
@@gamerdomain6618 or hes just really fast
Basically speaking, he removes himself from his own fate, and Epitaph lets him see what'll happen in the future.
So lets say You're Diavolo and see yourself in the future, revealing himself to take Trish out of the elevator. You cut that part out by skipping time, and since you only escape your own fate, Trish's fate is to be cut from Bucciarati, so she moves from Bucciarati to below the elevator, even if he didn't do anything during skipped time. Same with Narancia.
He removes the consequences of his own actions. But he can only do this when he's already predicted that he's going to do something, because he can't touch things in stopped time.
Or at least that's my rationalization, lol
Heres a video explaining it better
th-cam.com/video/i-ZiDJw_Sns/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUaaG93IGRvZXMga2luZyBjcmltc29uIHdvcms%3D\
Basically where I got my understanding of, its really convoluted tho. so technically is isn't inconsistent, but I don't know if this guy realizes that its a rationalization (Even if its a really good one) and not how Araki was thinking when he wrote it.
Doesn't explain why Bucciarati didn't move whatsoever during the skipped time. If Trish were stolen from him, you would think he would attempt to retrieve her.
“… or Diavolo's ability was conflated with The World's ability to stop time.” - Rohan Kishibe, Viva Reverie's “Giorno Explains King Crimson”
@@gamerdomain6618 Those two things can't be conflated, as time stop can be worked around, while the time skip can't. Let's say you know Jotaro is about to stop time but you want to kill him, we couldn't possibly; unless he has someone with him you can target instead and he won't have enough time within time stop to save them while also keeping himself out of the way. You could also argue that if you keep your moves wide or unpredictable, you could potentially hit him after time stop ends. But with time erase, you have no chance. Everything that is fated to happen by Diavolo's hands, will happen. If he is fated to save the person with him, he can just skip past that time and that person will be saved but he doesn't have to put himself in danger, as he could stay where he is or relocate, and there is nothing you could do about that, it is fated to be like that. You also can not hit him with something unpredictable or wide, since he will be able to see through it in the time skip and can attack accordingly. The only workaround seemed to be with Buccarati when he ran away, but he had the perfect ability for running away in a way that is almost impossible to see.
Also I'm pretty sure it does explain why Buccarati didn't move his head. No one seemingly does anything within the time skip that they weren't already planning before it started, as they can not react to changes within time skip. This is why no one reacts to what Diavolo does within time skip, yes it is fated to happen, but they did not experience it, so they did not react to it and kept going as if nothing happened. That is why Mista gets the bullets handed to him during time skip but doesn't realize, the act of Trish given them was already going through her mind and body, so she did it in the skip, but Mista didn't see himself being given more when he asked, so he was not ready to help protect everyone yet.
TL:DR on this is that They do what they were gonna do before the skip, but can't react to anything in it so that is why they are never in a position they would have been if the skipped event had happened outside of skipped time.
Oohh i really like the idea of there needing to be intend for them to move, that makes sense!👍
@@gamerdomain6618 because Diavolo being the creator of the action that would produce the reaction of Bruno (Bruno not being the target shown by Epitaph) erased his action that would produce the reaction, since it's part of Diavolo's fate that was changed/erased, Bruno acted as if nothing changed and was calmly holding Trish's hand, acting as if she was there still, waiting with her calmly to reach the top, standing still... this is what would happen if Diavolo never attacked and because Diavolo's fate of attacking was changed by Diavolo to not actually attacking and carrying out the action, thus carrying with it Bruno's reaction (only when Diavolo is the one that starts it, not when he receives it, then others move normally), it never actually happened, Diavolo never attacked in the first place so Bruno had not reason to react in any way. But since Epitaph is absolute, if it showed that Trish ends up in Diavolo's hands below the Elevator with her hand severed (as what would happen if Diavolo didn't use King Crimson), she does, but if Epitaph never showed Bruno in the prediction, Bruno acts as if Diavolo never attacked since he's not bound to this fated result of Diavolo attacking. This is how it makes sense, imo while being consistent with King Crimson's power of fate erasure for Diavolo's actions/fate.
Dub watcher detected, oppinion disregarded
Homestuck🫵
Wait crap you say it in the video..................
Damn i got nothing.
Great video you're awesome
I love homestuck