A friend of mine, who died about 10 years ago, designed the nose gear for the Arrow. One exemplar survives in the aviation museum in Ottawa. The design was something he was very proud of, since the gear survived a botched landing intact. He would have been delighted to see the Arrow's daughter born.
"It been to long we have gone without our pride, without our dignity or our glory, and yet we can still only dream of the day that we will pick our feet up high and take a step of hope and courage into our bright and limitless future and return the pride, dignity and glory of our nation, this century could be ours full of prosperity and discovery but only if we have the courage to take the first step and seize, this century could be Canada's century but that is left in your hands that possibility is left in my hands, it's left in your hands, will you seize it?." -Myself I'm a sixteen almost seventeen year old Canadian boy and have loved aviation since I was very young. I am on my last to years of high school and have the grades to do pretty well any thing I want and study anywhere I want. I want to go into aerospace as a engineer, I want to design a plane, many planes to for my nation to improve her in every way I can. As it stand this dream is impossible I'm a young aspiring aerospace engineer in a first world nation but without a company in the entire nation that could allow me to achieve these goals, instead I will be forced to go abroad to achieve my full potential. "For now gone are the days of when the Canadian CF-100 was the back bone of NATO's all weather interceptor force, gone are the days when the C-102 became the first North American jet airliner beating both the United States of America and the Soviet Union and being only a few months behind Britain. In the past decades, long ago a brand new aircraft rolled out of a hanger for the first time a crowd was gathered to see it, nobody had seen anything quite like this new plane. This plane, well she was tall, long and sleek, the nose gear pushed her nose skyward looking up at her new domain, she had two of the most powerful engines ever put on a fighter up to that point, her wing well it was mounted high and swept back elegantly starting just past the air intakes and flowed all the way back to just passed her rear when they came back attaching at her tail forming two near perfect triangles, a delta wing. This plane, she was the CF-105 or to us and many around the world the Avro Arrow, are beautiful and perfect Arrow. She was truly perfect, the best in the world are we, not some foreign power or flaw in a design already ahead of its time, we, us her creators, we killed her. We killed our beautiful Arrow and she took are pride with her to the grave. Gone are the days of the CF-105 the most best and most advanced fighter/interceptor to that time ever built by any nation. I hope for these days to return, I hope we are given a second chance and I hope that if these days do come again we will seize them instead of turning our back, but these are just my hopes nothing more and most certainly nothing less." -Myself Excellent model even after many years I don't actually have this power clearly but if it doesn't already have a designation I would like to designate it CF-200. The Beaverworks Aerospace CF-200 Super Arrow, has a nice ring to it I think.
What did you imagine for weapon capabilities? Strictly internal stores along with a cannon, or potential addition of hard points for under wind mounted munitions? This seems like an amazing concept that would do Great things to both our Air Force capability and our economy through creation of jobs and advancement of our aerospace sector. Beautiful plane. Just perfectly Canadian :)
Dr.Frisky PHD Hi Dr. Frisky, sorry about the delay. We have been completely overwhelmed with so many elements its hard to stay on top of social media. Thank you so much for the compliments, she was in development for over 2 years and we are working on our UAV platform at the moment and focused in on fundraising. Yes, a program like this would create many, many high end Canadian jobs. The aircraft has 3 weapons bay, one main internally under the cockpit and two located at the rear exterior engine nacelles for air to air missiles. With the addition of external hard points, she would be an absolutely lethal Canadian bird of prey.
i think that if this gets off the ground and approved it will be the first step to all of our military equipment being made in Canada. sure it may cost more initially to build the proper manufacturing facilities but at least that money would be staying at home and would be paid to Canadians instead of being paid to a foreign country. we could even start gradually making all our goods in Canada. goods made with Canadian resources in Canada by Canadians by a canadian company with no foreign involvement. I think this plane if successful could be the first step
Beaverworks Hey Joe , I've made it back to your vid . I am happy to report that my pension is intact . Ya gotta love the DOD , they are very understanding of crazy fools like me . I live in Ogden Utah , home of Hill Air Force Base . The F35 is going to be fielded here shortly . Your concept is not only awesome , but I get this feeling that it will be better than the sum of it's parts ! You know what I mean , some machines turn out to be even better than what the engineers say it should be ... I believe this aircraft to be one of those machines !!!
Which it should have been all along. This should be raised with our new Government. They may be a little easier to speak to over such a plan. Think of the jobs this would create, not to mention the pride it would infuse the nation with again. What other 1st world nation has the military equipment build and manufactured by a separate nation? ITS ass backwards.
Iroquois prototype engines are 3 ft. shorter and a third lighter than the best P & W had to offer at the time, yet still provided more thrust and thats just awesome. Make the canards more prominent, and you've got a winner...AGAIN!
We are still building the f22 bomber, it will be the same size and nearly the same design just a longer version of the f22 and that arrow is a longer version of our f23
like YF 23 but i am fully supported the reactivate avro arrow program, since that aircraft is more reliable than F35 compare everything from price until specs.
No stealth. Every new fighter on the drawing board is being designed with stealth in mind. Not just the us but the British, Germans, French, Chinese, Russians. 30 years ago canada needed this.
I love it but yeah, ya need the stealth capabilities. Unless the electronics are other worldly and can jam everything . lol Being it’s just fantasy, we’ll say that, the electronics are so good stealth isn’t needed.
it would create jobs. and maybe keep our best people that go south stay home. but I think after we get this one built we have to get the next into space. may sound crazy but we have to push for the next level. really that is what made the arrow so great. it was going to push boundaries.
I still love looking at this bird Joe! I think you mentioned some time ago about building an R/C version of this? Would be EPIC and put me in the line for a kit! Or maybe even help build the prototype :) Super Arrow all the way!
Truth is, detractors of the F35 don't know what they are talking about. This aircraft is all about integrating multiple platforms, destroying enemies before they know who is firing on them, seeing radar coverage bubbles through the helmet displays. This plane is a whole new level. People who talk about whether it can dog fight are the people that dont have a clue. Dog fighting is now metrics of a bygone era. The F35 will literally be able to fire on an enemy using the missile rails of the closest friendly aircraft, drone, or ship when they pull the trigger. Every sensor surrounding the plane will draw real time battle maps autonomously. Its a whole new world with this plane.
BUILD IT ! Don't buy that LEMON my countrymen are trying to sell you , for it is JUNK.Your first generation ARROW could easily outperform the F-35 LightFART ! Now imagine this beauty the SUPER ARROW? Just awesome ! Best of luck.
Thanks for that, We really do need to get our great engineers and our country to believe again. At the same time i say Go USA. Our great neighbors, Yes the US Airforce put the brakes on the Avro Arrow due to our politicians knuckling under. We could have been a solid leader in Aerospace.
I got taken in by the title, "Super Arrow First Flight." After looking for a few moments, I realized that it was not an actual Arrow, nor was it Super. Nor was it a First Flight. It was a cartoon. So if you have it "flying" why not fly it to the moon. Why not Jupiter or Mars? Let it play among the stars. In other words, "Hold my Molson."
r3dfiv3 Hi there, yes, this is our X-Plane digital aircraft that we built in order to test her flight characteristics. However we are not releasing the model to the general public at this time. For more information, please visit our site at www.superarrow.ca Cheers. Joe
You only built two YF-23s, but at today's prices for jet fighters, that's about all Canada can afford! :) Seriously though, we're looking at buying 88 copies of your F-35. If they ever get it off the ground, and build enough of them to sell us some. The only problem is, they cost 150+ million each, and Canada doesn't have that kind of money. So, we're probably just going to have to give you Canada as payment, and since it'll now be part of the USA, you can just let us use your F-35s for free because it'll be your country anyway, and we won't have to deal with border stations or need passports to go cross-border shopping anymore and you get a free supply of Canadian oil and lots more different kinds of beer. We also all get to have guns, and when the summer weather gets too hot down there, you can just come up here and freeze your asses off like Canadians used to do back in the old days before they all moved to the "southern" part of the USA. That way, everybody wins! Doesn't that sound like a pretty good deal?
After seeing the F-35 Canada had better get going with the Super Arrow. For what they would spend on the F-35 over its life time they could rebuild their own aircraft industry.
BLACK WIDOW and SUPER ARROW are similar design. The different wingsspond , the wings of Black Widow 45 degrees design, turn rate 60. The Super Arrow 90 degrees
i think you should make an rc jet powered model/ prototype. see how it actually performs in the air ,the main issue i see with this aircraft is the length of the ass end. i could see it scraping along the ground during landing in real life.
The problem is; it's not the physical plane that is that hard to build. It's the engines, radar and software. The whole software issue was almost moot in the days of the old Arrow. Try and write a flight system that tracks 32 enemy at once, identifies friend from foe, can override jamming, and links perfectly to both the pilot, ground control, and the weapons. Frankly, I don't have a clue how Saab manages to do it.
I agree, developing the code base for all of the weapon systems, sensors, radar would take decades. These days, these are the major components of a fighter aircraft. If you have to buy them all from a 3rd party, you might as well just buy their aircraft as well. The only way that Canada could get back into making fighter jets is to partner with another company or do what we're doing with the F-35. But that program is becoming almost unaffordable for the Americans... no idea how anyone thinks we could do this on our own.
+TheDarkAquarian I must disagree most thoroughly. Canadians CAN build advanced engines. Canada can build damn near ANYTHING if she wishes to, and build it well. Careful about those sweeping statements, DarkAquarian. Respectfully in disagreement, a Canadian.
What an amazing plane You did an amazing job here this would be way better then f 35. The f 35 program was so concentrated on stealth that they would of sacrifice Speed, Weapons. and alot of other stuff and any 4th gen or the new 5th gens of other countries can easily outrun the f 35 and f 22.
"Kinda reminds me of the YF-23 Black Widow II"... ...which would have been a better choice for the US than the F-22 and its half-baked, overpriced offspring. But then again Northrop(-Grumman) always focused on R&D while Lockheed (-Martin) excelled in W&D 9and so got the contract).
Sorry, but there were reasons that it lost the F-22 and there is nothing saying the price of the YF-23 would not have risen moving into full-rate production.
Patrick Kraemer Been trying to figure that one out too. I googled what W&D could stand for. The ones that would make sense pertaining to the topic would be Web Design, Weapon Data, War Department (lol), World Domination (lol) and lastly, Wireless Directive, which is apparently being used mostly within the US DoD.
The CF 105 was cancelled because the the US gave the Russians the blueprints for the Arrow to make sure it would never go into production, the US will never allow Canada to build it's own combat aircraft because the Us military industrial complex does not like competition so we gave Canada F 101 voodoos as a consolation.
They are going to have to design in intakes more like the Russians use to keep FOD out of the engines during take off and landings. Seems to me with the intakes located so far under the air frame that they wood make a vacum pocket. Maybe it wouldn't but the first time something goes in the engine or the cumulative effect over time. I hope they make it though. Very sexy air craft.
When are you going to do your 1/8 scale model tests? My father is RCAF retired he introduced me to the MK2. I would like to come out and see your model and meet some great canadians who continue to dream big dreams.
The aircraft which you will have build by summer 2015. Will it be capable of flying 250,000 altitude as well as be able to do everything that it's meant to do in actual combat?
It looks almost identical to the upcoming 6th Gen fighters. Canada should join up with Sweden to build a 6th Gen fighter. We both have the same issues, like isolated bases in Arctic and sub-arctic climates, with less than ideal runways. Plus Canada has a unique issue with vast airspace requiring extended range.
What tools are you using to design your aircraft? I assume if you are serious developers, you are using CFD analysis on the aircraft and wing shapes as you refine the design. Are any in your group aeronautical engineers? Why would you use the wing from the original Arrow? Did you just come up with the design in your head and make it look like a modern Arrow or is there any real design behind this? I hope you're not using X-Plane as a development tool. You do know that X-Plane only looks at the forces on the airfoils and not the aircraft body itself, correct? The only affect that the aircraft fuselage has on the flight model is the info you enter for the frontal area and drag coefficient. Where I work we used X-Plane to validate a ballistics model of ours. It's a decent model but we verified that only airfoils affect the flight model and the fuselage has no affect on anything but the drag calculation. Also note that it's only the airfoil area and incidence settings and the l/d/m curves as defined in the airfoil maker app that are used so it's not really possible to design modern super-critical airfoils in X-Plane. So you have to know how an airfoil actually performs before you can even enter the data, so where did you get the l/d/m curve info for the Arrow wing? Also X-Plane still does not model delta wings shapes too well and I see you're using a big delta wing, so beware. The blade analysis model is fine for general approximation but the physics are nowhere close to the real-world. Austin Meyer will even tell you that. You can design any shape to fly well in X-Plane without any type of FBW control so if your aircraft is unstable you're not going to find out until you build at least a half scale model or do some wind tunnel and CFD analysis. Don't forget flutter analysis either. Besides airframe and engine, there is the whole area of sensors and software which is at least as much of an effort to design. It would take decades for Canada to build the code base necessary for all of the various sensor systems, weapon systems, radar, etc. I'm confused by this whole project.
Who says they will use the original Arrow wing? Modern carbon fibre techniques will likely be used! Also, not the small wing of the F-35 which places limits on maneuverability! Also, just how in the hell will a much slower F-35 catch up to mach 2 plus current Russian bombers??
Ed Majden "Also, just how in the hell will a much slower F-35 catch up to mach 2 plus current Russian bombers??"? How exactly do current fighters do it?
The concept wing configuration is universally accepted as the best platform for structure, weapons loads, and good performance at both low and high speeds. Canada has tested this configuration on rocket propelled assemblies of the AVRO. Here is the lesson Canada did this in the 1950s only the Brits and the Americans ever had operational delta wing production shortly after the Arrow flew. Now all gen5 aircraft have the same wing config or 3/4 assembly of the same design.
If the Right take the seat away from the left/Treudeau (I PRAY THEY DO), would be awesome for the new leaders to immediately impmement/approve a "Super Arrow" program. I feel it would be a great way to bring Canadians together, create prosperity, strengthen national pride and provide over-all happiness. If not that, maybe Canada will produce a modern RUSH phenomena to be proud of and for the world to enjoy.🙏🇺🇸👍
+Cheyennehub What on Earth are you talking about? Are you suggesting the Arrow original film is something other than what it is?? Learn a little history, sir.
I apologize if I pissed you off Joe . But it does look a lot like Lockheed's , " Miss February " ... You've upgraded it to 6th gen , My God what a beautiful plane !!!
Beaverworks I believe you my good man . My Ol' Man was a NASA Engineer from '76 - '85 . My uncles , brothers in law , have worked for Boeing , Mcdonnell , Thiokol , Hercules , it goes on and on . I was an Army Helicopter Crewchief , who crewed helos at White Sands . My entire , " Fam Damnly " is Aerospace ! The P51 was overlooked in the beginning . Then they recognized just how good it really was . They installed the Merlin V12 , and the rest is History ! This aircraft design deserves to be taken seriously . The Canadian Government needs to listen to you , " THEY " really do ... The F35 program is being plundered by other , " Black Projects " . They do this you know , just look what they did to the B2 Program . That airplane costs $2 Billion per copy , how on God's green earth can you justify $2 Billion per copy ??? It's just an airplane , ya know ?
James Browne Hi James, with respect to NASA, I was involved with a project that involved the Canadian Space Agency where we arranged to fly the flag of 3 PPCLI Battle Group flag in orbit. Here is a link to that project: th-cam.com/video/Ca02nbFN4pA/w-d-xo.html
Beaverworks Wow , that was cool , that was Aaahhh ! I've been following you from the beginning . This Interceptor / Fighter is just what Canada's Air Force needs . Canada's air defense needs are all about range and speed , and being able to do the business once you arrive on station . It's not just about , " Time To Target " . Said aircraft needs to be able to do the business once it has arrived , Got Me ? This , " Super Arrow " fills that bill , it is large enough to not need refueling period ! Maybe once , but only after the engagement is over ! The F35 can't fulfill these requirements , it ain't got the range , plain and simple . The F35 will need it's refueling tanker again and again .This in itself will destroy the F35s " Time On Target " . And by the time it is FINALLY ready to purchase , " THEY " are going to make you Canadians pay out the Wazoo for it !!!
Beaverworks I would like to apologize again for my lengthy hiatus . My computer has been compromised AGAIN ! I've been talk'n about things my father taught me . Have you ever heard of the Maser ? Maser is an acronym for , " Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation " ! Like I said , my father was NASA for 10 yrs . He knows a lot about these types of tech . I'm on my 3rd computer now , and I need to STFU . I sincerely hope that your design will be taken seriously , for it is obvious that your design would more than meet Canada's self defense requirements ! Good Luck and God Speed , my good man !!!
Our government does not have the guts to do this! They would rather export our high tech jobs to the American Military Industrial Complex factories instead of going it alone! Very sad!
Sorry to say, it isn't a lack of just guts. It is also a lack of political will. Our leaders are contnet to let everyone else do the work, as long as we can buy it. Which is a stance that almost cost us, our shipyards, on both shores, as it did to our aircraft manufacturers after the Arrow was systematically destroyed after the US threats that they would no longer defend Canada. What makes THE U.S. ANY DIFFERENT THEN, THAN THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF TODAY? NOTHING.
I have a very difficult time with the Canadian Government being afraid to give the go ahead to fund the Super Arrow Program . If the Canadians really did build this bird , ( and did it right ) they would establish their country as an aerospace industry leader . This is a no brainer , build this airplane , or should I say space plane and establish yourselves in the international aerospace community once and for all ! Build it and the rest of the free world will line up out the door in order to buy it !!!
Canada should never have let itself get bullied or whatever caused them to destroy almost any sign it even existed. It was the best plane in the world st the time, and could be again.
Design looks great for high speed and stealth, but deep delta wings like this tend to lose a lot of speed while turning, and are consequently not good at BFM. Of course, if you put a big enough radar into it and give it very good missiles, then maybe BFM won't matter.
+Bill Kong Your right , I never thought about that . This is one of those planes that you would take into the vertical , then pull an RTT and come down on your adversary . But , if your weapons are current , then it's just fire and forget as you push the throttles all the way forward ! " See Ya , Wouldn't Want To Be Ya ," and the next thing everyone knows is that , " YOUR GONE " !!!
A friend of mine, who died about 10 years ago, designed the nose gear for the Arrow. One exemplar survives in the aviation museum in Ottawa. The design was something he was very proud of, since the gear survived a botched landing intact. He would have been delighted to see the Arrow's daughter born.
Was a girl?
I always wondered If that Nose was a actual piece
"It been to long we have gone without our pride, without our dignity or our glory, and yet we can still only dream of the day that we will pick our feet up high and take a step of hope and courage into our bright and limitless future and return the pride, dignity and glory of our nation, this century could be ours full of prosperity and discovery but only if we have the courage to take the first step and seize, this century could be Canada's century but that is left in your hands that possibility is left in my hands, it's left in your hands, will you seize it?."
-Myself
I'm a sixteen almost seventeen year old Canadian boy and have loved aviation since I was very young. I am on my last to years of high school and have the grades to do pretty well any thing I want and study anywhere I want. I want to go into aerospace as a engineer, I want to design a plane, many planes to for my nation to improve her in every way I can. As it stand this dream is impossible I'm a young aspiring aerospace engineer in a first world nation but without a company in the entire nation that could allow me to achieve these goals, instead I will be forced to go abroad to achieve my full potential.
"For now gone are the days of when the Canadian CF-100 was the back bone of NATO's all weather interceptor force, gone are the days when the C-102 became the first North American jet airliner beating both the United States of America and the Soviet Union and being only a few months behind Britain. In the past decades, long ago a brand new aircraft rolled out of a hanger for the first time a crowd was gathered to see it, nobody had seen anything quite like this new plane. This plane, well she was tall, long and sleek, the nose gear pushed her nose skyward looking up at her new domain, she had two of the most powerful engines ever put on a fighter up to that point, her wing well it was mounted high and swept back elegantly starting just past the air intakes and flowed all the way back to just passed her rear when they came back attaching at her tail forming two near perfect triangles, a delta wing. This plane, she was the CF-105 or to us and many around the world the Avro Arrow, are beautiful and perfect Arrow. She was truly perfect, the best in the world are we, not some foreign power or flaw in a design already ahead of its time, we, us her creators, we killed her. We killed our beautiful Arrow and she took are pride with her to the grave. Gone are the days of the CF-105 the most best and most advanced fighter/interceptor to that time ever built by any nation. I hope for these days to return, I hope we are given a second chance and I hope that if these days do come again we will seize them instead of turning our back, but these are just my hopes nothing more and most certainly nothing less."
-Myself
Excellent model even after many years I don't actually have this power clearly but if it doesn't already have a designation I would like to designate it CF-200. The Beaverworks Aerospace CF-200 Super Arrow, has a nice ring to it I think.
It's not the physical plane that makes a plane great now. It's the radars, software, engines, and missiles.
What did you imagine for weapon capabilities? Strictly internal stores along with a cannon, or potential addition of hard points for under wind mounted munitions? This seems like an amazing concept that would do Great things to both our Air Force capability and our economy through creation of jobs and advancement of our aerospace sector. Beautiful plane. Just perfectly Canadian :)
Dr.Frisky PHD Hi Dr. Frisky, sorry about the delay. We have been completely overwhelmed with so many elements its hard to stay on top of social media. Thank you so much for the compliments, she was in development for over 2 years and we are working on our UAV platform at the moment and focused in on fundraising. Yes, a program like this would create many, many high end Canadian jobs. The aircraft has 3 weapons bay, one main internally under the cockpit and two located at the rear exterior engine nacelles for air to air missiles. With the addition of external hard points, she would be an absolutely lethal Canadian bird of prey.
This is needed since the SR 71 Blackbird was retired in 1999.
from what I researched, the original was a fantastic design. I would like to see a resurgence of that Canadian design updated. Just do it Canada
i think that if this gets off the ground and approved it will be the first step to all of our military equipment being made in Canada. sure it may cost more initially to build the proper manufacturing facilities but at least that money would be staying at home and would be paid to Canadians instead of being paid to a foreign country. we could even start gradually making all our goods in Canada.
goods made with Canadian resources in Canada by Canadians by a canadian company with no foreign involvement. I think this plane if successful could be the first step
gencreeper Well its common sense eh?
Beaverworks Hey Joe , I've made it back to your vid . I am happy to report that my pension is intact . Ya gotta love the DOD , they are very understanding of crazy fools like me . I live in Ogden Utah , home of Hill Air Force Base . The F35 is going to be fielded here shortly . Your concept is not only awesome , but I get this feeling that it will be better than the sum of it's parts ! You know what I mean , some machines turn out to be even better than what the engineers say it should be ... I believe this aircraft to be one of those machines !!!
+gencreeper Canadian companies are being contracted to develop and produce parts for the F35. so Essentially that was already happening.
Which it should have been all along. This should be raised with our new Government. They may be a little easier to speak to over such a plan. Think of the jobs this would create, not to mention the pride it would infuse the nation with again. What other 1st world nation has the military equipment build and manufactured by a separate nation? ITS ass backwards.
We need the desire to do so. I dont know where it went, but I hope our Leaders find it again.
Iroquois prototype engines are 3 ft. shorter and a third lighter than the best P & W had to offer at the time, yet still provided more thrust and thats just awesome. Make the canards more prominent, and you've got a winner...AGAIN!
The canards should be semi sweeping so that to aid low/er speed maneuvers .
A real beauty of a design it looks like it could beat the best of any airforce
Beautiful jet
We think so. :)
Beaverworks America is too corrupt to deal with anything, I suggest they build the airplane
Ha ha ha love the music from the right stuff. 👍🏻👍🏻
nice work on the arrow
We are still building the f22 bomber, it will be the same size and nearly the same design just a longer version of the f22 and that arrow is a longer version of our f23
like YF 23 but i am fully supported the reactivate avro arrow program, since that aircraft is more reliable than F35 compare everything from price until specs.
No stealth. Every new fighter on the drawing board is being designed with stealth in mind. Not just the us but the British, Germans, French, Chinese, Russians.
30 years ago canada needed this.
I love it but yeah, ya need the stealth capabilities. Unless the electronics are other worldly and can jam everything . lol
Being it’s just fantasy, we’ll say that, the electronics are so good stealth isn’t needed.
it would create jobs. and maybe keep our best people that go south stay home. but I think after we get this one built we have to get the next into space. may sound crazy but we have to push for the next level. really that is what made the arrow so great. it was going to push boundaries.
Ya let the arrow live on!!!!
I still love looking at this bird Joe! I think you mentioned some time ago about building an R/C version of this? Would be EPIC and put me in the line for a kit! Or maybe even help build the prototype :) Super Arrow all the way!
I am waiting like every Canadian is, for the return of the Arrow to fly for Canada.
Where are the 4 AV Roe Arrows stored? Time to display they to show the public how Canada aka Canadian have been Cheated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a beauty... ... Hail Canada!
Hello I would love to build a Canadian built super car using some of the technology from the Avro arrow! Who could I connect with for this??
The Super Arrow could be build has a 6th Generation Stealth Aircraft, that would be better than the F-22and F-35.
How about we make it 8th gen and then it will be even better.
Turn this dream into reality
Truth is, detractors of the F35 don't know what they are talking about. This aircraft is all about integrating multiple platforms, destroying enemies before they know who is firing on them, seeing radar coverage bubbles through the helmet displays. This plane is a whole new level. People who talk about whether it can dog fight are the people that dont have a clue. Dog fighting is now metrics of a bygone era. The F35 will literally be able to fire on an enemy using the missile rails of the closest friendly aircraft, drone, or ship when they pull the trigger. Every sensor surrounding the plane will draw real time battle maps autonomously. Its a whole new world with this plane.
BUILD IT ! Don't buy that LEMON my countrymen are trying to sell you , for it is JUNK.Your first generation ARROW could easily outperform the F-35 LightFART ! Now imagine this beauty the SUPER ARROW? Just awesome ! Best of luck.
Thanks for that, We really do need to get our great engineers and our country to believe again. At the same time i say Go USA. Our great neighbors, Yes the US Airforce put the brakes on the Avro Arrow due to our politicians knuckling under. We could have been a solid leader in Aerospace.
A great day for Canada and for the world.
I so approve of this!
Thanks! We do too. Check out our site at www.superarrow.ca
Cheers.
Joe
Are there any similarities ( differences ? ) between the Super Arrow and the Dark Star ?
I got taken in by the title, "Super Arrow First Flight." After looking for a few moments, I realized that it was not an actual Arrow, nor was it Super. Nor was it a First Flight. It was a cartoon. So if you have it "flying" why not fly it to the moon. Why not Jupiter or Mars? Let it play among the stars. In other words, "Hold my Molson."
Could you made this mod available for X-Plane becaus I would love to try it
Huh... this is X-Plane!
r3dfiv3 Hi there, yes, this is our X-Plane digital aircraft that we built in order to test her flight characteristics. However we are not releasing the model to the general public at this time. For more information, please visit our site at www.superarrow.ca
Cheers.
Joe
needs larger engines like the one on the tu-160 and front canards to improve maneuverability
Looks like we sold our f23 to Canada, that's way cool I'm glad they have it
You only built two YF-23s, but at today's prices for jet fighters, that's about all Canada can afford! :)
Seriously though, we're looking at buying 88 copies of your F-35. If they ever get it off the ground, and build enough of them to sell us some.
The only problem is, they cost 150+ million each, and Canada doesn't have that kind of money. So, we're probably just going to have to give you Canada as payment, and since it'll now be part of the USA, you can just let us use your F-35s for free because it'll be your country anyway, and we won't have to deal with border stations or need passports to go cross-border shopping anymore and you get a free supply of Canadian oil and lots more different kinds of beer. We also all get to have guns, and when the summer weather gets too hot down there, you can just come up here and freeze your asses off like Canadians used to do back in the old days before they all moved to the "southern" part of the USA. That way, everybody wins!
Doesn't that sound like a pretty good deal?
You need to Google both planes, then you will see. Super Arrow is not a YF-23. Thanks for playing.
After seeing the F-35 Canada had better get going with the Super Arrow. For what they would spend on the F-35 over its life time they could rebuild their own aircraft industry.
Larry 21603 Jobs, create and build in Canada by English/French/Indigenous Canadian born Citizens and others. Thanks yes Amen
Approved by GracefulWalrusPK :)
Keep the dream going!!
Yea... Why Not???... Let's GO!
LETS ALSO BUILD THE ARROW SPACE CRAFT-SO I CAN GO TAKE A CANADIAN BEAVER TO THE MOON.
Cool looking video game plane.
This is the best joke I've seen yet :D
Sometimes, a great idea never dies....
BLACK WIDOW and SUPER ARROW are similar design. The different wingsspond , the wings of Black Widow 45 degrees design, turn rate 60. The Super Arrow 90 degrees
Nice graphics; Nice Idea; Pity it's a dream.
Can you link where I can download this plan for X-Plane?
This should be titled video game of a simulated first flight.
Awesome Design and Graphics mate.. You have done a splendid job on it.. All the best for the future.. !!
Thanks. What you see here is our digital 3d model translated into X-Plane 10 for flight evaluation. We are very excited. Thanks for the post!
So why is the video labelled, "Super Arrow First Flight"?
Shame they forgot the air intakes ,jet engines work better with oxygen,from you know ,the air
That looks like a YF-23 and FIrefox had a love child...
Fat Basterd I was thinking the same thing it's the 23 re-envisioned with the Canadian twist
+cfa-44 nosferatu
Shorten it up , downsize the rear controllers , rounded angled down wings , like stargate Jafaa fighters , for a start
i think you should make an rc jet powered model/ prototype. see how it actually performs in the air ,the main issue i see with this aircraft is the length of the ass end. i could see it scraping along the ground during landing in real life.
it woulld put you on the map,but. will boeing give you permission?
I'm getting goose bumps! VIVE LE CANADA! We need to show the world we are the best!
The problem is; it's not the physical plane that is that hard to build. It's the engines, radar and software. The whole software issue was almost moot in the days of the old Arrow. Try and write a flight system that tracks 32 enemy at once, identifies friend from foe, can override jamming, and links perfectly to both the pilot, ground control, and the weapons. Frankly, I don't have a clue how Saab manages to do it.
I agree, developing the code base for all of the weapon systems, sensors, radar would take decades. These days, these are the major components of a fighter aircraft. If you have to buy them all from a 3rd party, you might as well just buy their aircraft as well. The only way that Canada could get back into making fighter jets is to partner with another company or do what we're doing with the F-35. But that program is becoming almost unaffordable for the Americans... no idea how anyone thinks we could do this on our own.
+TheDarkAquarian I must disagree most thoroughly. Canadians CAN build advanced engines. Canada can build damn near ANYTHING if she wishes to, and build it well. Careful about those sweeping statements, DarkAquarian. Respectfully in disagreement, a Canadian.
@@classicjetsims Not really a problem, did that stuff for years. Suspect the software would be ready before the airframe
What an amazing plane
You did an amazing job here this would be way better then f 35.
The f 35 program was so concentrated on stealth that they would of sacrifice Speed, Weapons. and alot of other stuff and any 4th gen or the new 5th gens of other countries can easily outrun the f 35 and f 22.
Phasor Thunder Thank you Phasor Thunder! Awesome name by the way!
No matter how much I too would like to see it, there will never be any "Super Arrow". The American military-industrial complex will make sure of that.
Hows the project going?
"All we need to do is believe in ourselves again."
"Oh, and a few hundred billion dollars for development."
great concept....yes , fighter mu be huge....like sr71 :)
ALLWAYS-THINK OUT OF THE BOX-ITS HOW THINGS GET DONE AND BUILT.
Canadian dream with Esso in the background? Hmmmmm??? What did happen to PetroCanada?
Looks great IN A GAME, but will it perform?????
Kinda reminds me of the YF-23 Black Widow II, especially looking at it from the front.
"Kinda reminds me of the YF-23 Black Widow II"...
...which would have been a better choice for the US than the F-22 and its half-baked, overpriced offspring.
But then again Northrop(-Grumman) always focused on R&D while Lockheed (-Martin) excelled in W&D 9and so got the contract).
Sorry, but there were reasons that it lost the F-22 and there is nothing saying the price of the YF-23 would not have risen moving into full-rate production.
W&D 9 ????
Patrick Kraemer
Been trying to figure that one out too. I googled what W&D could stand for. The ones that would make sense pertaining to the topic would be Web Design, Weapon Data, War Department (lol), World Domination (lol) and lastly, Wireless Directive, which is apparently being used mostly within the US DoD.
Why, EXACTLY?
What credible facts and data are you basing your non-expert opinion on?
have another Labatts and chill.
Do you have a copy of the new Arrow for FSX or P3D?
We have weak leadership, won't happen ! Such a beautiful piece of aviation here though , would be nice to see this a reality.
Crocodile making them fight?
there is a difference between first flight and first simulation flight
glad someone brought that up
I have Windows 7 ! Can I fly it ?
Our military is pretty outdated we could use this :3
The CF 105 was cancelled because the the US gave the Russians the blueprints for the Arrow to make sure it would never go into production, the US will never allow Canada to build it's own combat aircraft because the Us military industrial complex does not like competition so we gave Canada F 101 voodoos as a consolation.
THE ENGINE NACELLES LOOK A LOT LIKE THE YF23.THE WHOLE PLANE LOOKS LIKE AN AMAGLEMATION of 23and the 22 and some arrow.
NICE
The Superceptor / Super Sceptre?
Looks like it would make a great spy plane too.
Is it true that the first Arrow's flight was on the same day as sputniks launch? The day that showed the future was rockets and not bombers.
Not the 1st flight, which was in 1958, but the public rollout of Arrow the previous year.
I support this.
They are going to have to design in intakes more like the Russians use to keep FOD out of the engines during take off and landings. Seems to me with the intakes located so far under the air frame that they wood make a vacum pocket. Maybe it wouldn't but the first time something goes in the engine or the cumulative effect over time. I hope they make it though. Very sexy air craft.
Spec’s please!
When are you going to do your 1/8 scale model tests? My father is RCAF retired he introduced me to the MK2. I would like to come out and see your model and meet some great canadians who continue to dream big dreams.
Next summer in Ontario. Keep visiting www.superarrow.ca for more details as we make them available.
The aircraft which you will have build by summer 2015. Will it be capable of flying 250,000 altitude as well as be able to do everything that it's meant to do in actual combat?
JohnConnor1985 No this is our scale aircraft.
It all sounds wonderful... but with the JT PM we have, I don't think we'll have anything BUT dreams.
wow a f23 with a delta wing
Long Live the Arrow... and the Super Arrow !!
That is a massive plane. Sr71 looks like it
it's a good start but I don't think we have time
This would be really nice to claim as Canadian bird.
...I'd be thankful if an original model of the Arrow was rebuilt! Get the True North back into stride once more!
What next?....nuclear weapons?
It looks almost identical to the upcoming 6th Gen fighters. Canada should join up with Sweden to build a 6th Gen fighter. We both have the same issues, like isolated bases in Arctic and sub-arctic climates, with less than ideal runways. Plus Canada has a unique issue with vast airspace requiring extended range.
SHOW THEM HOW ITS DONE AGAIN
What tools are you using to design your aircraft? I assume if you are serious developers, you are using CFD analysis on the aircraft and wing shapes as you refine the design. Are any in your group aeronautical engineers? Why would you use the wing from the original Arrow? Did you just come up with the design in your head and make it look like a modern Arrow or is there any real design behind this?
I hope you're not using X-Plane as a development tool. You do know that X-Plane only looks at the forces on the airfoils and not the aircraft body itself, correct? The only affect that the aircraft fuselage has on the flight model is the info you enter for the frontal area and drag coefficient. Where I work we used X-Plane to validate a ballistics model of ours. It's a decent model but we verified that only airfoils affect the flight model and the fuselage has no affect on anything but the drag calculation. Also note that it's only the airfoil area and incidence settings and the l/d/m curves as defined in the airfoil maker app that are used so it's not really possible to design modern super-critical airfoils in X-Plane. So you have to know how an airfoil actually performs before you can even enter the data, so where did you get the l/d/m curve info for the Arrow wing? Also X-Plane still does not model delta wings shapes too well and I see you're using a big delta wing, so beware. The blade analysis model is fine for general approximation but the physics are nowhere close to the real-world. Austin Meyer will even tell you that. You can design any shape to fly well in X-Plane without any type of FBW control so if your aircraft is unstable you're not going to find out until you build at least a half scale model or do some wind tunnel and CFD analysis. Don't forget flutter analysis either.
Besides airframe and engine, there is the whole area of sensors and software which is at least as much of an effort to design. It would take decades for Canada to build the code base necessary for all of the various sensor systems, weapon systems, radar, etc.
I'm confused by this whole project.
Who says they will use the original Arrow wing? Modern carbon fibre techniques will likely be used! Also, not the small wing of the F-35 which places limits on maneuverability! Also, just how in the hell will a much slower F-35 catch up to mach 2 plus current Russian bombers??
That's what they said on their web site, regarding the wing and I'm talking about the shape by the way. I'm no fan of the F-35.
+Ed Majden I know right in fact a newer Tomcat would be a bit better in protecting the USA from super sonic bombers and nukes
Ed Majden "Also, just how in the hell will a much slower F-35 catch up to mach 2 plus current Russian bombers??"?
How exactly do current fighters do it?
The concept wing configuration is universally accepted as the best platform for structure, weapons loads, and good performance at both low and high speeds. Canada has tested this configuration on rocket propelled assemblies of the AVRO. Here is the lesson Canada did this in the 1950s only the Brits and the Americans ever had operational delta wing production shortly after the Arrow flew. Now all gen5 aircraft have the same wing config or 3/4 assembly of the same design.
If the Right take the seat away from the left/Treudeau (I PRAY THEY DO), would be awesome for the new leaders to immediately impmement/approve a "Super Arrow" program. I feel it would be a great way to bring Canadians together, create prosperity, strengthen national pride and provide over-all happiness. If not that, maybe Canada will produce a modern RUSH phenomena to be proud of and for the world to enjoy.🙏🇺🇸👍
So you took a YF-23 and called it an old Canadian fighter from an old sim --Great !
+Cheyennehub where do you see f23????
+Cheyennehub What on Earth are you talking about? Are you
suggesting the Arrow original film is something other than what it is?? Learn a little history, sir.
I apologize if I pissed you off Joe . But it does look a lot like Lockheed's , " Miss February " ... You've upgraded it to 6th gen , My God what a beautiful plane !!!
Thanks! I never saw their variant until well past our design lock phase.
Beaverworks
I believe you my good man . My Ol' Man was a NASA Engineer from '76 - '85 . My uncles , brothers in law , have worked for Boeing , Mcdonnell , Thiokol , Hercules , it goes on and on . I was an Army Helicopter Crewchief , who crewed helos at White Sands . My entire , " Fam Damnly " is Aerospace ! The P51 was overlooked in the beginning . Then they recognized just how good it really was . They installed the Merlin V12 , and the rest is History ! This aircraft design deserves to be taken seriously . The Canadian Government needs to listen to you , " THEY " really do ... The F35 program is being plundered by other , " Black Projects " . They do this you know , just look what they did to the B2 Program . That airplane costs $2 Billion per copy , how on God's green earth can you justify $2 Billion per copy ??? It's just an airplane , ya know ?
James Browne
Hi James, with respect to NASA, I was involved with a project that involved the Canadian Space Agency where we arranged to fly the flag of 3 PPCLI Battle Group flag in orbit. Here is a link to that project: th-cam.com/video/Ca02nbFN4pA/w-d-xo.html
Beaverworks
Wow , that was cool , that was Aaahhh ! I've been following you from the beginning . This Interceptor / Fighter is just what Canada's Air Force needs . Canada's air defense needs are all about range and speed , and being able to do the business once you arrive on station . It's not just about , " Time To Target " . Said aircraft needs to be able to do the business once it has arrived , Got Me ? This , " Super Arrow " fills that bill , it is large enough to not need refueling period ! Maybe once , but only after the engagement is over ! The F35 can't fulfill these requirements , it ain't got the range , plain and simple . The F35 will need it's refueling tanker again and again .This in itself will destroy the F35s " Time On Target " . And by the time it is FINALLY ready to purchase , " THEY " are going to make you Canadians pay out the Wazoo for it !!!
Beaverworks I would like to apologize again for my lengthy hiatus . My computer has been compromised AGAIN ! I've been talk'n about things my father taught me . Have you ever heard of the Maser ? Maser is an acronym for , " Microwave Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation " ! Like I said , my father was NASA for 10 yrs . He knows a lot about these types of tech . I'm on my 3rd computer now , and I need to STFU . I sincerely hope that your design will be taken seriously , for it is obvious that your design would more than meet Canada's self defense requirements ! Good Luck and God Speed , my good man !!!
Our government does not have the guts to do this! They would rather export our high tech jobs to the American Military Industrial Complex factories instead of going it alone! Very sad!
Sorry to say, it isn't a lack of just guts. It is also a lack of political will. Our leaders are contnet to let everyone else do the work, as long as we can buy it. Which is a stance that almost cost us, our shipyards, on both shores, as it did to our aircraft manufacturers after the Arrow was systematically destroyed after the US threats that they would no longer defend Canada. What makes THE U.S. ANY DIFFERENT THEN, THAN THE COMMUNIST PARTY OF TODAY? NOTHING.
canadians will have this jet in 50 years
I would more than happily pick this over the f35.
Looks like the American F-35 and F-22
were outclassed when they against the Super Arrow...... .
I have a very difficult time with the Canadian Government being afraid to give the go ahead to fund the Super Arrow Program . If the Canadians really did build this bird , ( and did it right ) they would establish their country as an aerospace industry leader . This is a no brainer , build this airplane , or should I say space plane and establish yourselves in the international aerospace community once and for all ! Build it and the rest of the free world will line up out the door in order to buy it !!!
The USA will not let this thing fly again just like the way they did it last time
I hoped dream come true!
Canada should never have let itself get bullied or whatever caused them to destroy almost any sign it even existed. It was the best plane in the world st the time, and could be again.
Design looks great for high speed and stealth, but deep delta wings like this tend to lose a lot of speed while turning, and are consequently not good at BFM. Of course, if you put a big enough radar into it and give it very good missiles, then maybe BFM won't matter.
+Bill Kong Your right , I never thought about that . This is one of those planes that you would take into the vertical , then pull an RTT and come down on your adversary . But , if your weapons are current , then it's just fire and forget as you push the throttles all the way forward ! " See Ya , Wouldn't Want To Be Ya ," and the next thing everyone knows is that , " YOUR GONE " !!!
YF-23 with a delta wing.
looks like the Boeing yf23 but nice problem I see little to large
the sad thing is that it could of been great the f-35 if they chose the x-35b, aka the simely jet
Oh Canada!