The Pietta ACE with .45ACP conversion cylinder
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- Out again with the Pietta ACE - this time with the Howell Arms conversion cylinder in .45ACP!
Loads used are the Desperado Cowboy 200gr. lead flat nose with Winchester 231 powder, and the Black Bullets International 230gr. round nose with Alliant Bullseye powder.
Shooting for groups was done at 15 yards.
If you enjoyed this and would like to support me in getting new material to video, you can buy me a pizza here: ko-fi.com/john...
Also where you touch the trigger affects shot placement. Using the tip of your trigger finger results in "left" impacts, while using the first finger joint hits right of your sight picture. The wide bone after the finger tip and before the first joint works best for me on my 1911's. On my 1851 Navy Snub, I use the finger joint to move left impacts back to the right some. After practice your hand just knows how to hold the gun without thought.
I am a fan of the 1858, mine is sporting a 6 shot 45 Colt cylinder. I have only shot reloads out of it because the factory lead ammo is pretty pricy. However if you are looking for lead 45acp ammo there are a few companies that offer it such as HSM, Buffalo Arms, and Wild Bunch. It probably costs more than a 45 acp ball type. Just figured I'd mention it as an option.
Great video. Ultramax used to load a lead 45 acp round that was perfect for these conversion cylinders. Very accurate out of my Remmy
Interesting. Too bad they still don't offer them.
@@johnzx6r Exactly! So what's the point of mentioning them?🤔
The reason for it being meatier is not necessarily because people will use "Stronger" Loads. It is because the pressures generated by 45 ACP are significantly higher than that of a 45 Colt. Starting Pressures on a 45 Colt 7-9 Thousand CUP, for 700-950 FPS. (Hodgdon reloading Data) 45 ACP pressures are in the 11-13 Thousand CUP for the same bullet weight and speed. (Hodgdon Reloading Data). That is why their are only 5 Rounds per cylinder vs 6 for 45 Colt.
But For a small pistol that thing got some kick to it.....
Great videos lovely guns we cant get the conversion cylinders here in UK but i still enjoy the holy black✌️
You can get smokeless primer only conversions though. I recommend you look into it
Just realized you already did it! You got yourself a new subscriber! Thank you for sharing!... 👍💯🤠
Good shooting as usual I customized my own Remington new model, but can't test these cylinders in it as it is a brass frame. Monday I test fired my 62 gr .31 in the Remington and the 77 gr in the 1849. I learned a few things. 1 my vision impairment is not getting better open sights for percession is gone. 2 still do fairly well off my basic instincts for shooting
3. Bullets are not showing any tumbling, clean holes in the paper. 4 12 grains of ffffg fits well in both revolvers. And the big thing I leaned optics maybe the answer. Took two carbines out with me earlier with open sights, and failed. Mounted optics on them, and took an old trusted scoped. 22 and got good results with carbines. The .22 not the bullet touch accuracy I'm use to but a solid 3/4" group. So it may look funny mounting optics on the Remingtons butt should keep me in a positive direction. I think I will try the 1866 carbine first.
Now on an older video (speaking of .45 acp I have decided to pickup a cobra derringer in .45 acp. I think we will see better results.
As I'm getting older, seeing the sights on these things is becoming more and more of a struggle. I just can't see that front sight very well anymore! I think the groups out of this pistol would be even better if someone with better vision than me were shooting it!
It's easy to replace the barrels on that Bond Arms derringer I have, and they offer a replacement barrel in .45ACP. I'm going to get one and try it out - probably load some .45ACP up with some black powder!
@@johnzx6r yes age can be a pain unfortunately it's not my only limitation. A stroke in the vision portion of my brain took the lead. I see two of everything, and neither are in focus. What I at closest to in clarity is about the diameter of looking through a straw. I was born with no quiet in me, and I'm not starting now.
@@StevenMMan I'm sorry to hear that. Good that you are not letting it prevent you doing the things you enjoy doing.
Interesting video John, there’s a guy here on TH-cam that demonstrates using smokeless powder in his 1858 Remington, he uses a load similar to a .44 special and then uses cornmeal as a filler .. His channel is “ GreatNorthernDad “ , too bad he didn’t crony those loads ... If you type in “ smokeless powder in 1858 Remington “ you’ll find it ..
I'll have to check that out.
@@johnzx6r If you type in “ smokeless powder in 1858 Remington “. you’ll find it ..
That is a dangerous practice. The cylinders in the cap and ball replicas, while stronger than originals are not rated for smokeless powders.
@@richardelliott9511 Not if it’s done properly, watch the video ..
@@CapnSchep there is no way to safely use smokeless powder in the percussion cylinders, they are not proofed for it. They may stand up to it for a while but overtime, look out. The video is refering to smokeless powder in the conversion cylinders, which are proofed for smokelss .
You can use jacketed loads with the kirst converter. I asked. Just use Winchester white box 230 grain. 830 fps average out of 5 inch barrel. You're well under that with such a short barrel .
Thanks for sharing
200 grain bullets will strike lower because there is less recoil than 255 grain bullets at similar velocity. 230 is closer to 255 in recoil.
Very true. I may try to find an even heavier bullet, see how that works.
Nice! As a side note, I've noticed my Pietta Colt-style 1861 Army shoots way, WAY high and to the left (or right? It's been a while) with the conversion cylinder. I hadn't realized that choking up a bit on the grip would help remedy this a bit, and seeing as that's what you were doing was a good reminder.
Very nice video. Thank you.
Thank you for watching!
Buffalo arms sells lead round nose 200 something grain 45ACP ammunition rated at 750 and 850 fps
That's good to know. Those would be perfect for this.
@@johnzx6r I bought several boxes over the last 5 years for my Remington Sheriff’s model conversion cylinder. They’re quality ammunition but not always in stock. The hotter loads shot point of aim. Also, they’re loaded with smokeless powder.
🙏
Would you go with the 45 acp or the long colt conversion for the ace?
If you handload, I think I would go with the .45ACP version. I think the smaller case is just a bit more efficient when it comes to the smaller powder charges need to keep the velocities under 850fps.
If you only use factory ammo, then I think you will be better off with the .45 Colt, since there are more ammunition choices for that round in the low velocity, lead bullet loads that this conversion cylinder needs.
One other factor - if it matters to you - is that you can get the .45 Colt as a six-shot cylinder, but the .45 ACP is only available as a five shot.
If you could load these hotter then they'd be a nice option for guys who want a .45 acp revolver since all the other options are sold out
I haven't chronographed these yet, but I feel like there is still a bit of room to bump up the powder charge. I think it will be possible to get pretty close to your standard .45 hardball velocities here, which is certainly nothing to sneeze at!
@@johnzx6r if you drill holes in the bullet you might get better velocity and maybe some expansion too depending on how fast theyre going.
@@marblemarble7113I totally forgot about this method, would be interesting to see in ballistic gel or water jugs
does anyone know Uberti 1858 fluted conversion cylinder will be fitted into this revolver or not?
I like it, I can use my spent 45acp brass
Does "black powder only conversion" mean the pistol does or does not classify as "designed or redesigned to use conventional center-fire ammunition" per the ATF and USC regarding antique "firearms"? This could / would mean the difference in cities with strict "firearm-free" or handgun-by-permit-only zones. The manufacturer reccomends not to use smokeless in it, and I never would, but then they also beefed up the cowboy cartridge BP conversion cylinder... Maybe just for mitigating their liability? I'd be more concerned with the frame coming apart anyway.
Well, I'm certainly not a lawyer, and not really up on the ATF regulations. My understanding is that you could not buy, say, an 1858 Remington like this from a dealer with the conversion cylinder already installed without filling out a 4473 form from the ATF because it would then be a modern firearm and not fall under the "antique" classification like a regular percussion revolver does.
If you first get a percussion revolver and then purchase a conversion cylinder the ATF really has no say in the matter. You would really have to check your state and local ordinances to see if they determine installing a conversion cylinder then classifies a percussion revolver as a "firearm".
Pietta and Uberti recommend only using black powder or black powder substitutes in their (unaltered) revolvers. Neither Pietta nor Uberti manufacture their own conversion cylinders for these revolvers - they are all made by third party manufacturers. These conversion cylinders are built to handle the higher pressures of smokeless powders, with reasonably pressured loads. It's recommended that the smokeless powder loads used in these use lead bullets (not jacketed) and are kept to velocities under 850 feet per second. Ammunition kept within these parameters will be totally safe in these revolvers and your revolver should last you a lifetime of regular shooting.
HSM Training 45 ACP 230 gr Plated Lead Round Nose are 825fps and 0.0005 mil plating
Plated bullets should be OK, I'd imagine. Should be soft enough to not drive pressures up.
I have two questions.
1. Can you use .45 auto-rim cartridges?
2. What is the size of the chamber throats?
I like your videos and I found this one very informative, thanks
Thank you.
.45 Auto Rim will not work. The cylinder doesn't have "cutouts", for lack of a better term, for the rims to sit in, so they will not really chamber all the way and you wouldn't be able to put the cylinder backplate on. I suppose if you have a stockpile of .45 Auto RIm you want to use, it shouldn't be too hard for a gunsmith or machine shop it cut recesses in the chambers so the rims would seat, if you wanted to go that route.
Using my calipers, I'm getting a measurement of .451" for the chamber throats.
Occasionally Starline makes Cowboy special brass to accomplish same outcome in 45 Colt cylinders.
Starline has this brass available on "backorder" right now. That usually means they are running or about to run a batch. I plan on getting some to try out. It sounds like it might be an interesting cartridge.
@@johnzx6r the 45 cowboy spc is essentially a 45acp with a rim but not interchangeable with 45 autorim as the rim is much thinner. I found the the 45 cowboy spc to be very handy for reduced power blackpowder loads because it eliminates the need for fillers. As you stated about the 45acp, it would slso allow for more economical powder charges for the same ballistics but I haven't tried that angle for myself.
@@richardelliott9511 I would like to try some .45 Cowboy at some point. The brass has been hard to come by lately, though.
I have lead jacketed hollow points 45 long Colt rounds with a 830 fps which I was told they'd work fine so I bought 2 boxes of 20 for close to $100. Afraid to shoot them now having heard that the pressure in the cylinder could be to much and have a cylinder wall blow out. I also was told by man from Taylor's and company (where I bought the cylinder from) that it would be ok if I keep fps under 850 but I guess he was low man on the ladder because the next day I received an gmail from Taylor's and company from another guy who works for Taylor's and company who said he wouldn't use jacketed hallow point rounds even under 850 fps due to the wear that jhp put on the gun. What are your thoughts on this?
I'd be hesitant to use any kind of jacketed bullet with these. I think the cylinder itself could handle the pressure just fine, but the guns themselves were just not made for them. They are designed around a soft lead projectile, and I think that a jacketed bullet is just too much for them, and would expect that it wouldn't take many rounds to start seeing some cracking around the forcing cone when using jacketed bullets.
That's one of the reasons I like the Desperado Cowboy bullets so much in these guns - they use a very soft lead similar to the typical round ball, and I'm sure the revolver will last a lifetime using these or even most other lead bullets.
@@johnzx6r Thanks for your advice. I'm going to take these JHP and put them back in the safe. Thanks again. William
Just get a Ruger old army with a Kirst converter. The Rugers will fire anything.
The barrels are milder steel than newer smokeless powder guns.
@@WilliamHorsley1962 In all honesty the barrels on the Pietta’s are no worse than the steel used by Colt or Smith in the 1920’s, it’s probably far superior. I highly doubt even 1,000 rounds of modern jacketed ammo could significantly damage a repro BP revolver barrel. Shear off a cylinder base pin on a Colt replica? Sure, I’ve had it happen with BP and lead balls. It’s the friction of the bullet that’s the problem. It pulls the barrel forward stretching the frame. That’s why you can’t use conversions in brass guns- because they will stretch and eventually the hammer can’t reach the cap. Colt’s weak point is on the wedge and it WILL shear off. Steel frame Remingtons are different.
Manufacturers have to stay specific on their recommendations for liability. If they say it’s OK for Remington’s, people will assume it’s OK for Colts.
I just ordered a 5 shot 45 ACP cylinder for my pietta ace. I noticed my point of aim was way off with Cap and ball, hoping I can improve that with this cylinder before I have to consider filing the front sight down to gain accuracy. Any tips you might have would be a big help!
When you say you were way off, do you mean it was hitting low? If that's the case, then it will more than likely be much closer than with the conversion cylinder. I've found conversions can raise the point of impact a good 6 - 8 inches over the percussion cylinder. It may still need some slight filing of the front sight, but maybe not.
A 230gr lead bullet with a velocity of 700 - 750fps should be a pretty nice shooting load in your revolver.
Any specific question you have, please feel free to ask - I'll be glad to help, if I can!
Low and slightly to the left, I’ll have to take it to the range to see how much of a change the conversion cylinder makes. But when using cap and ball I was hitting 8-10 inches low and 2-3 inches to the left of my point of aim.
Well i hit the broadside of a barn. As my father would say.
Try a case full of black powder with that, next time.
I've used black powder in a .45 Schofield case with the .45 Colt conversion cylinder in this, but haven't tried it in a .45 ACP case. At least, not yet!
I’m thinking about one of those, what do you think of the white plastic grip panels?
I like them well enough. I think it is a nice contrast with the white grips and the blued revolver. It's a pretty strong PVC plastic, so I assume they will hold up well for the long haul - we'll see.
well, 5 cylinder or 6, the cylinder, either way is NOT the reason for having to use low pressure ammunition, its really the barrel rifling and the quality of the action. . Modern conversion cylinders no matter how many holes are strong enough but the rest of the gun will literally fall apart or come loose with high pressure and the barrel won't handle anything but lead due to its quality and its rifling.
I don't necessarily disagree with you. From what I understand the cylinders are made out of a higher grade steel than the revolvers themselves, and using high-pressure ammo out of these will most likely damage the revolver long before anything happens to the cylinder. But by making these only a five shot, I think the companies are engineering in a bit of a safety margin - just to cover themselves. There is absolutely no reason these couldn't be made as a 6 shot cylinder. There is no rim that needs to be made room for, like with a .45 Colt, but yet there are 6 shot .45 Colt cylinders available and no one makes a .45ACP cylinder as a 6 shot. If there is some other reason why the .45ACP cylinders are only available as 5 shot, I'd love to hear about it.
What's The PRICE On The ACE, Thanks...
When you can find them, they are usually about $375 or so.
@@johnzx6r
Thanks...
I have a new 1 from Taylor's and company and I want to get rid of it for a 1860 snub nose. Personally I like the feel of the Colt over the Remington but I bought the Remington Ace before I bought a 1851 Avenging Angel and didn't realize that difference between them balance wise. The Remington has a strong frame but the Colt feels better in hand
@@WilliamHorsley1962 The Colt's do have a better "feel" than the Remingtons - the Remingtons are pretty clunky compared to the Colt's, but there is just something that I like more about the Remingtons. I can't really explain it, I'm just more partial to them.
The Remington 1858 is much easier to swap cylinders on than the 1860 Colt where you have to remove the barrel and the wedge pin to get the cylinder off. I like the lightning round butt grip on the 1860 compared to the Remington grip. Some people love the plow handle I'm not one of those.
Why the short barrels on so many of your revolvers?
Well, first reason is simply because I like them. I've always had a "thing" for snub revolvers.
Secondly is that apparently other people like them as well, and videos where I feature them tend to get a lot of views. So as long as people keep enjoying videos about them, I'm going to keep making videos about them.
I had a 1858 Remington oversized frame so since it was a oversized frame my conversion cylinder shot 44LC ✅ completly fine metal jackets all day and the regular revolvers with conversion cylinders should be able to handle standard metal and copper rounds and all modern day ammo shouldn't have to use lead bullets trust it will hold just don't do a thousand rounds of hollows or metal
How come no Winchester Cowboy Loads used ?
I don't have any. In fact, I very rarely actually buy factory ammo. I use handloads pretty much exclusively.
@@johnzx6r That's what I need to do and that's hand load them myself because a box of 50 Winchester 45cal cost nearly 65 dollars at Bass Pro that's just ridiculous to say the least!
God Bless
Idk why Howell even makes a .45acp conversion cylinder seeing that most readily available .45acp factory ammo loads wouldn’t work with it. The .45 colt 200 grain cowboy loads work much better and are easier to get than the correct all lead non jacketed light .45acp loads are
I'm sure they sell far more cylinders in .45 Colt than they do in .45ACP, exactly for the reasons you stated. But for those that handload (like me), the .45ACP has a few benefits over the .45 Colt. For example, I just took a quick look on the MidwayUSA website, and right now I could buy .45ACP brass, but none is available in .45 Colt. Even if I couldn't find .45ACP brass for sale, I still find it all the time just laying on the ground at the range. Not a huge amount, but enough to make up a handful of rounds, if I had to. I can't remember ever finding range scrap .45 Colt at the range I go to.
That's just one of a few reasons why I, personally, kind of prefer the .45ACP over the Colt.
I always save my brass even though I don’t reload. I have a whole empty ammo box with 50 empty brass .45 colt shell casings in it. Would you like to purchase it from me?
Just bought one, when it gets here what do I clean/lube with to get it ready to shoot?
When you get it, it will be covered in oil. That is just a rust preventative and not very good for lubrication. When I get a new one, I usually take it apart and clean off all the packing oil, inside and out. I like Ballistol for cleaning and lubrication. Many people don't like the smell of it, but I'm not bothered by it at all. Mixed with water it also works as a good black powder solvent (called Moose Milk by many).
Lately I've been trying Mobil 1 synthetic grease on the internals. Seems to work OK. Best thing to do is use cleaning products that are designed for black powder. Animal, vegetable or synthetic oils are best - petroleum based oils and black powder don't play together all that well - tends to make BP fouling hard and gummy.
Enjoy your new revolver - I'm sure you are going to like it!
@@johnzx6r thank you so much brother!
@@johnzx6r And that’s the same routine for the conversion cylinder? I reckon it would just be less gunk.?
@@jonathongreyburgett2824 Yup, same. That's one of the reasons I prefer Ballistol - it works well on both black powder and smokeless powder.
@@johnzx6r Good stuff. Thank you John! Let ya know how my shootin goes. Happy trails.
Where did you buy this?
I bought this one from Taylors & Company. It looks like they have them in stock right now, as well.
@@johnzx6r thanks
@@jasonleee9401 I got my 1858 Ace in a matter of four days but I’m sure it would’ve been shorter had I not ordered the day before July 4th. Very beautiful gun I have the walnut checkered grip personally as it was the one in stock and fit my spending.
Is this caliber better than the 45 colt for the ace?
I think so, but with some caveats. I think the .45 ACP cylinder makes sense only if you handload your own ammunition. As I stated in the video, I don't know of any ammo maker that produces the ammo necessary for these cylinders, which is a lead bullet moving at less than 850 feet per second. With the .45 Colt, there are several ammo makers that make ammo that meets these specs (though they seem to be in pretty short supply right now).
If you do handload, I think the .45 ACP has a few benefits. As stated, with these cylinders you are limited to 850 fps, so that means you will be using some pretty small powder charges. I think these small powder charges can be just a bit more efficient in the smaller case of the .45ACP over the .45 Colt. Plus, .45 ACP components (brass, bullets etc.) seem to be a little more available and less expensive right now compared to .45 Colt.
I like both cylinders, but if I could only have one, I think I would go with the .45 ACP.
@@johnzx6r the average 45 acp round doesn't travel much faster,like 950 fps, I don't think that it would really hurt anything,and if you don't shoot jacketed hollow points all the time i think it's ok for just every now and then,the forcing cone though,you really think it would hurt it?i think fmj might
@@jasonleee9401 I don't really know, but I would be very uncomfortable using jacketed bullets in these. I don't think there would be a catastrophic failure if you used jacketed bullets, but I'm sure you would see cracking of the forcing cone and frame. No idea how many rounds it would take -100, 200, 1,000? Not sure.
What I do know is that the people who make these conversion cylinders - Taylors and Co., Howell Arms, and Kirst Konverters - all say the same thing: lead bullets only at less than 850 fps. That's good enough for me.
@@johnzx6r i believe that the not using copper jackets is about not wearing out the rifling of the barrel, copper and lead are extremely soft metals,i just don't see them breaking steal,but who knows, better be safe than sorry
@@jasonleee9401 I don't really know, either. I don't think it is the necessarily the bullet material that does the damage, but the cartridge pressure. It takes a bit more "oompf", to use the technical term, to push a jacketed bullet down the bore than it does just a plain soft lead bullet. Generally speaking, a cartridge loaded with a jacketed bullet needs more powder - thus pressure - to reach a certain velocity than a cartridge does if it were loaded with just a plain lead bullet. So I think that is the reason they say to stay away from jacketed bullets - they create more pressure than the revolvers were really designed for.
They make ammo for this.
I'm sure there is some out there. I never see anything suitable on the shelves in my neck of the woods.
@@johnzx6r Maybe have a chat with the owners of them there shelves and see what can be done. Maybe not stock the entire store with it but a few small orders. Who knows. But when people make their own like you do. There is no need to look to far or wide to see. Is there?
@@Reshtarc Yeah, handloading opens up a lot of options that aren't always available in stores. I actually don't give the ammo shelves at the store much more than a passing glance, just mostly to see what the prices have shot up to. It's been a long time since I've actually bought factory ammo.
You can't aim 😂😂😂