A bad period. I was working for LU then, it didn’t discourage me from going forward for train crew, eventually going back up the school to do the motors course. I remember the repeated emphasis on speed during my driver training when dealing with “applying the rule” . Did my simulation on my test between Clapham Common & Clapham South on a ‘56 stock (prototype 59 silver with the extra marker lamps). Was taught by road trainers (and Mr Brinsom RTC instructor) that “Caution Speed” meant that you could clearly pick out the individual sleepers as you passed over them, and my experience was that you couldn’t just bang it into series and leave it there... coasting was necessary to keep the speed well down in expectation of finding another train in section, and despite the fact that I did like to move briskly when on the front, if I had applied the rule I kept a close eye on the speedo until I had passed 2 stop signals showing clear or caution. I keep saying it, The Training I received was excellent and remains in my head 30 years after I stabled the last train I drove.
Caution speed means you can stop short of any obstruction? In this location a train leaving Leyton west bound travels around a sharp left hand curve with a normal speed limit of 20mph and down a steep gradient and with the cab driving position also on the left so the drivers vision ahead would have been severely restricted even if the train was travelling at say at 4 - 5mph the driver would have had only seconds to react and I doubt would have stopped without having a low speed impact with the stationary train in front which had stopped at the tunnel portal for a signal engineer to inspect a know signal fault. Why the station staff? Never informed the driver that the Leyton station starting signal was on red because of a train was stopped in front know ones knows and kept the train in the platform..(If one of the station staff bothered to cross to the east bound platform the train in front would have been visible)
@@paulspeight8398 Having driven this type of rolling stock on the Northern line, travelling @ 4 to 5 Miles per hour the stopping distance on a 62 stock with a Just a full ep brake application would be very short, that's without the westinghouse brake being used to generate the extra 5lb psi that would be applied during an emergency application of the westinghouse. The curve is quite tight, but clearly the train was travelling faster than the driver could reasonably expect to react to an expected issue and as such WASN'T travelling at an appropriate caution speed. When you "apply the rule" you have to be ready to stop the train short of any obstruction, that means tailoring your speed according to the alignment of the line, from my experience driving these stocks, despite the curve, at an appropriate caution speed it should have been easily possible to stop the train short of any obstruction. The fact that you cite a speed limit and claim the driver was unsighted demonstrates that you don't understand what was demanded of drivers in this circumstance, nor the visibility likely to be available, I suspect that the falling gradient at this section indicates that the driver didn't fully realise the increase in speed likely to be caused by this gradient, inappropriate speed was clearly a huge factor in this collision. Having "applied the rule" at the starter, the rule book required the driver to proceed at "caution speed". The speed limit is a moot point, the rule book at that time was absolute on that point, and we were required to demonstrate our understanding of caution speed during our driving tests which took place on a train in service. Caution speed was an appropriate speed given the conditions and visibility available to the driver. Unless the driver was instructed by the Line Controller to hold, applying the rule at an automatic signal was appropriate, there was a comment in the clip about the train repeatedly stopping which sounds like it might be repeatedly " tripping past" signals remaining at danger, which means at each signal passed while remaining at danger, it restarts the procedure that requires caution speed to be observed until the train had passed 2 stop signals showing a clear or caution aspect. If the driver had "tripped past" more than one signal then this should have indicated that it was very likely to encounter another train ahead in a section The damage shows that the train was traveling too fast over a section where it should be reasonably expected to be traveling at slightly above a brisk walking pace. The presence of platform staff was by no means a given, at that period on the tube, most platforms were unstaffed outside of peak hours, and the train crew would have acted on any instructions given by the line controller. Finally, I recall that there was a strict time limit on the length of time allowed to a signal engineer when taken by train to a faulty signal in a tunnel section, and if the repair couldn't be effected within that time then the repair was to be halted and the train proceed to the next station where the engineer would travel back to continue the process again from another (following) train. If the line was to be blocked then this would require drivers to be informed both by train radio and the station supervisor. I've had actual experience of this when my train carried an engineer to a faulty signal in a tunnel section. This happened because rules were not properly followed
@@EM-yk1dw indeed it’s rather sad that it has gone. I noted recently that TfL were looking for alternatives to fill cab simulators for training. I’m glad I learned the craft from great instructors plus the road trainers on trains in service. You get a real feel for the job that way.
I used to be a regular passenger on this Central Line route. I don't remember when this accident happened. But I do remember this stretch of track, seemed to be a favourite bit for the drivers. After leaving Leyton, they always seemed to be trying to go as fast as possible to the tunnel entrance. Your ears always used to pop when the train entered the tunnel to Stratford, if it was going fast enough.
I should of been the driver on the front train but had swopped over at Leytonstone to allow the other driver to finish early so that he could see his children.
A bad period. I was working for LU then, it didn’t discourage me from going forward for train crew, eventually going back up the school to do the motors course.
I remember the repeated emphasis on speed during my driver training when dealing with “applying the rule” . Did my simulation on my test between Clapham Common & Clapham South on a ‘56 stock (prototype 59 silver with the extra marker lamps). Was taught by road trainers (and Mr Brinsom RTC instructor) that “Caution Speed” meant that you could clearly pick out the individual sleepers as you passed over them, and my experience was that you couldn’t just bang it into series and leave it there... coasting was necessary to keep the speed well down in expectation of finding another train in section, and despite the fact that I did like to move briskly when on the front, if I had applied the rule I kept a close eye on the speedo until I had passed 2 stop signals showing clear or caution.
I keep saying it, The Training I received was excellent and remains in my head 30 years after I stabled the last train I drove.
Caution speed means you can stop short of any obstruction? In this location a train leaving Leyton west bound travels around a sharp left hand curve with a normal speed limit of 20mph and down a steep gradient and with the cab driving position also on the left so the drivers vision ahead would have been severely restricted even if the train was travelling at say at 4 - 5mph the driver would have had only seconds to react and I doubt would have stopped without having a low speed impact with the stationary train in front which had stopped at the tunnel portal for a signal engineer to inspect a know signal fault. Why the station staff? Never informed the driver that the Leyton station starting signal was on red because of a train was stopped in front know ones knows and kept the train in the platform..(If one of the station staff bothered to cross to the east bound platform the train in front would have been visible)
@@paulspeight8398 Having driven this type of rolling stock on the Northern line, travelling @ 4 to 5 Miles per hour the stopping distance on a 62 stock with a Just a full ep brake application would be very short, that's without the westinghouse brake being used to generate the extra 5lb psi that would be applied during an emergency application of the westinghouse. The curve is quite tight, but clearly the train was travelling faster than the driver could reasonably expect to react to an expected issue and as such WASN'T travelling at an appropriate caution speed. When you "apply the rule" you have to be ready to stop the train short of any obstruction, that means tailoring your speed according to the alignment of the line, from my experience driving these stocks, despite the curve, at an appropriate caution speed it should have been easily possible to stop the train short of any obstruction. The fact that you cite a speed limit and claim the driver was unsighted demonstrates that you don't understand what was demanded of drivers in this circumstance, nor the visibility likely to be available, I suspect that the falling gradient at this section indicates that the driver didn't fully realise the increase in speed likely to be caused by this gradient, inappropriate speed was clearly a huge factor in this collision.
Having "applied the rule" at the starter, the rule book required the driver to proceed at "caution speed". The speed limit is a moot point, the rule book at that time was absolute on that point, and we were required to demonstrate our understanding of caution speed during our driving tests which took place on a train in service. Caution speed was an appropriate speed given the conditions and visibility available to the driver. Unless the driver was instructed by the Line Controller to hold, applying the rule at an automatic signal was appropriate, there was a comment in the clip about the train repeatedly stopping which sounds like it might be repeatedly " tripping past" signals remaining at danger, which means at each signal passed while remaining at danger, it restarts the procedure that requires caution speed to be observed until the train had passed 2 stop signals showing a clear or caution aspect. If the driver had "tripped past" more than one signal then this should have indicated that it was very likely to encounter another train ahead in a section
The damage shows that the train was traveling too fast over a section where it should be reasonably expected to be traveling at slightly above a brisk walking pace. The presence of platform staff was by no means a given, at that period on the tube, most platforms were unstaffed outside of peak hours, and the train crew would have acted on any instructions given by the line controller. Finally, I recall that there was a strict time limit on the length of time allowed to a signal engineer when taken by train to a faulty signal in a tunnel section, and if the repair couldn't be effected within that time then the repair was to be halted and the train proceed to the next station where the engineer would travel back to continue the process again from another (following) train. If the line was to be blocked then this would require drivers to be informed both by train radio and the station supervisor. I've had actual experience of this when my train carried an engineer to a faulty signal in a tunnel section.
This happened because rules were not properly followed
White City RTC is the best railway training I received.
@@EM-yk1dw indeed it’s rather sad that it has gone. I noted recently that TfL were looking for alternatives to fill cab simulators for training. I’m glad I learned the craft from great instructors plus the road trainers on trains in service. You get a real feel for the job that way.
@@warweezil2802 I totally agree. The courses were tough and thorough, together with the oral exams but in the end you really knew your stuff.
Year ?
I used to be a regular passenger on this Central Line route. I don't remember when this accident happened. But I do remember this stretch of track, seemed to be a favourite bit for the drivers. After leaving Leyton, they always seemed to be trying to go as fast as possible to the tunnel entrance. Your ears always used to pop when the train entered the tunnel to Stratford, if it was going fast enough.
Weirdly enough there was also a crash in this area back in the 50s on the Central Line.
Northern & Electricity line is 1938 stock as well. It's being an accident at Moorgate Station.
Chris Reavey R I P
Monday 20th August 1984
This looks like the comment from the public has been deliberately deleted
0:55 the amount of Jamaicans they bought over and then deported 🤦🏾♂️
I should of been the driver on the front train but had swopped over at Leytonstone to allow the other driver to finish early so that he could see his children.
str8lolly driver was Chris reevey I believe?
Jesus fucking Christ
@@Richardsrailway IF it was chris? Then he was an experienced motorman!
Oh my god!!!
Looks like the 1980s
1984.
Proper Londeners...all change
WTF went wrong? Was is suicide?
CRASH! train stock 1962
Stock train 1962 crash.
he was a