Forge Welding in the Induction Forge - blacksmithing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Using the induction forge to forge three leaves then forge weld those into a bundle that is then welded to a longer bar. This is simply a test piece, but the element could be used in a number of different applications.
Black Bear Forge is sponsored by:
Combat Abrasives - bit.ly/3r73P8d
Use code "Blackbear10" for a discount on your next order
My new anvil is from Fontanini Anvils
Ending music sourced from Epidemic sound -
Valley Dance - Rune Dale
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My name is John Switzer, I operate Black Bear Forge, a small one person blacksmith shop located in southern Colorado. My current focus is shifting away from commissions and customer orders and towards education through these videos on TH-cam. Thank you for watching
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Below you will find useful links that will help you in your journey as a blacksmith.
My blacksmiths apron
www.Forge-Apron... use code BBF
RZmask 99.5% dust mask
rzmask.com?afmc=ay
To find more information in blacksmithing in the US or to search for your local ABANA affiliate group visit.
www.abana.org/
Blacksmithing tools and supplies
Self contained air hammers - www.saymakhamme...
General blacksmithing supplies - www.oleoacresf...
General blacksmithing supplies - www.piehtoolco....
General blacksmithing supplies - www.centaurforg...
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General blacksmithing supplies - www.blacksmiths...
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Blacksmithing and related activities can be hazardous. These videos are not a substitute for competent professional instruction. Your safety is your sole responsibility. Always use appropriate safety equipment including eye and ear protection when working in the shop. Follow manufactures safety guidelines for the use of all equipment. In the event something shown in one of these videos seems unsafe, it is up to you to make the appropriate changes to protect yourself.
John,
Looks like you picked up the basics of the induction forge quickly. I have been using mine for about a year and found a couple of useful tricks:
1. The insulating sleeving on the coils that comes with the machines is just a standard fiberglass weave, not ceramic, and will melt if touched with forge weld temperature steel. However if you brush the weave with a kiln wash it will become impervious to high heat and quite durable. At the end of the day when your hand gets tired and shaky it is very easy to short coil loops that are not insulated, with possible damage to the welder circuitry. The kiln wash that I use is water based colloidal alumina sol mixed with Zircoplax Plus (very fine zirconium silicate) to a thin creamy consistency. It is brushed on in place and dries in less than a day. It can also be directly painted on the bare coils, but is not as damage resistant. You should be able to obtain the materials at a pottery store or online.
2 Matching the coil size and shape to the work is key for rapid heating and high temperatures for induction welding. Because the flare nut coil connections that came with the unit are not designed or intended for rapid or frequent changes the hassle of coil changes often results with "living with" the coil that is present. I highly recommend that you look into a quick change coil connection that requires no tools and can be done in less han one minute. It will also eliminate the metric flare nut and metric tube size hassles that are involved with the current system on most inductions heating units. I made my own very simple version of quick connect and it has greatly improved my induction heating experience. It also prevents damage to the machine copper plumbing from torque on the high frequency output transformer flare fittings. I would provide pictues if the forum allowed.
Jimmy Johnson
Thank you, for sharing that.
I would love to see the quick release system, you can email a picture to switz@mindspring.com
@@BlackBearForge did you ever get pictures of the quick release connection or the product itself?
Very cool indeed, looks like a dark face shield or dark safety glasses would be easier on the eyes. Since welding temps are pretty bright and you have to watch it so close to keep it in the center of the coils that is.
If you touch the metal to the coil is there any danger?
I’m glad you tried the no flux weld. That’s the first thing I wondered about when you mentioned forge welding.
Thats was very fun and interesting to watch. Look forward to see more induction forging as summer comes. What a great tool to have in the shop. And the end result is much cleaner
Forge welding was awesome in induction forge. Certainly induction forge got so many benefits. Will be great in cuming summer👍👍🔥🔥🔥
John Switzer makes for a great day., Again Sir I thanking for your teaching me and others.
Always great videos Sir
Those are very cool and interesting forges. Keep up the great craftsmanship and hard work John. Forge on. Keep making. God bless.
Thanks for the heads up on Combat Abrasives. Being a woodworker I noticed immediately that the sanding products were geared toward metal working (duh I know I saw the advertisement on a blacksmith site). So I sent them a note and within 5 minutes had a reply suggesting I should go to their woodworking sanding products at www.maverickabrasives.com. Great customer service, fair pricing, and reasonable freight terms. So thanks again John, great company and your videos are always great.
I can't justify the cost for myself but, MAN! That is COOL! I want one!
Leaves on backwards? No problem, just heat the stems and twist them 180 degrees...
Thank-you for the great video! I have a question: What is the energy consumption with an indution forge? Thank-you and have a good day...
240V 30A
Very nice! That was almost too convenient! Will the taco coils be as fast to heat to welding temps, or do you think you lose something because there isn't the full surround?
They will be more convenient but won't heat as fast
The ability to heat precisely is a big deal when control is important. Worth the price of admission if only for that feature. Cheaper and easier than a torch outfit. 👍
I can see how this forge is going to get your efficiency up. As usual, love you video and content.
I can see a lot of potential for using the induction forge for small piecework. That ability to take a short, precise heat right where you need it without affecting thin elements mere inches away and not actually "playing with fire" at all in the process is safer and more efficient even than using a torch to achieve the same end.
I really loved this video John! Very interesting demonstration of induction forging. I wonder if you could make a taco shaped coil? Could be easier to slip the piece in rather than through the coil.
Yes, I have one but didn't show it in this video
would love to see a comparison between forge welding with and without any flux in different steels. basically to see how hard is it to get a weld in modern mild and tools steels without any flux
That was great you need a camera man.
I bet you could skewer and heat up a kielbasa for lunch time!
It would cook by heating the skewer on the inside.
Hello John
You looking good the spring brings new Energie and new Projekts.
I like this induktionforge very much it is clean save and very controlled in the heating process .
Thanks for this Video and sharing your Projekt with us
All the best take care and happy eastern
Yours Frank Galetzka
As the work gets thinner, there is less material to interact with the RF field, thus, it is more difficult to heat.
Smaller coil, designed to heat that shape of piece.
Smaller pieces will heat up very quickly.
just bought one of theses units ,found this very interesting ,First impressions very similar localised heat has lots of advantages .Thanks for posting .
Random thought John, could you lay the coil flat then form the flat section into a C shape so the top is open? So it kinda makes the shape of a bottom swag 😎 great test welds ✔👍😎
Yes, the one I made is open one the side, but its the same idea
Worked out pretty nicely. Great job showing us the technique.
Great video John, really enjoyed the induction forge demonstrations. Great work. Thanks for sharing with us. Fred. 👍👍👏🏻👏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Hi John so glad you dont play music in your video i have bad hearing and cant make out what your saying with back ground noise thanks!
Pretty cool, how long does it take to warm up a hotdog? Asking for a friend lol
I actually have a question about mending a anvil face, someone prior to me owning the anvil cut the face of it by the round hole on the tail of it. It's about 1.5 inches long. About 1/2 inch deep on the edge of the hole to about a 1/8th inch deep out into the face. What would be a way to fix this proper? Thank you for any advice..really enjoy your videos
John, you are making me want an induction forge. That is a nice process. Okay, I wanted one for about a year. I just need the space for one. Thanks for the video.
Those are very cheap to run. I remember Grant Sarver using them for Off Center Tongs.
if you're concerned with minimizing heatup time, rapidly oscillating the metal in the field will yield enhanced efficiency of induction power.
Hi i have a question about a project that im thinking of doing as i build myself a new forge shed im wanting to forge the door fittings im probably biting off more than i can do with my skill set but i want to try my problem is im going to use the sliding barn door and i can't seem to find a video anywhere on TH-cam on how to go about hand forging the rollers and their fittings is this possible for me to be able to accomplish and how do i go about it . Thank you for any help you may be able to provide
Does it have to be a closed loop coil, or could you do a C shape type thing? Just wondering about tricky shapes pieces and fitting through a closed loop.
Want even tighter control of where the heat is applied? Go to a handheld coil that generates a field as a spot onto the piece.
Very nice localized heats. Thank you for sharing
So what type of radiation is it putting off there? Electro magnetic?
Very interesting, it is amazing how fast it heats up the steel. Thanks for the video!
not to be rude by cussing in your comments. But that induction forge blew my fucking mind. I didnt even know those were a thing. I need one
That is kool brother
Really great to see more info on an induction heater, if I can figure out how to safely get power out to my workshop, this is on the list for sure!
The availability of good power is certainly an issue
Good morning john. Thanks for what you do
My pleasure!
Cool stuff very interesting takecare and keep safe
I really enjoy watching your videos on my giant TV, but I have to go to my phone to like and comment.
Questions,
1 is the induction forge 120 or 240?
2 I know you probably said in another video, I watch all of them fully, what's the price tag a good again?
3 do you remember me asking multiple times about you trying induction forging?
Great to keep seeing your inspiring educational videos.
Keep it up.
Very happy to see you go way above and beyond the 1K subscriber mark
Thanks again John.
240V 30A
Good job John happy Easter to you and yours thanks for sharing an God bless
Very informative video. Happy Easter
Happy Easter, John. Very interesting video!
Good morning Sir,
Happy Easter
I mess around with much smaller induction heaters that don't really work well for most forging. But---- I have done some testing of pancake coils to heat sheet metal. So, I wonder if pancake coils might be a useful answer with your much larger heater, for dealing with forge welding such as you did here. I have several videos about my pancake coil experiments, but I won't attempt to hijack your video with links. You might also try U-shaped coils.
I have a pancake coil, but it doesn't seem very effective on anything more than sheet.
Try making a cone shaped coil for large & smaller areas.
How is it money wise on power consumption veres propane or coal.
I wonder if you could make a coil that was narrow on one end and larger at the other, That way you could avoid having to change coils while working on something like this.
I have seen them, but haven't made one yet
John is there any reason that you went with US Solid? I absolutely love the possibilities this forge holds..
Only because another local smith had been in contact with them and knew when they had some available
Great video you teach me so much and I love the trade
I have the exact same unit and I love it!
What an amazing techno-step. This gizmo is very fun to watch and appears to be a huge asset in it's particular use/function. Cool stuff!
Nice video as usual.
🤘😃🤘
Was wondering if you are using the 220v or 110v version. Im very intrigued after watching your videos. Thanks
220V on a 30 amp breaker
John,
Can you provide the information on your water cooler, brand, model and where I can purchase?
Trying to contact US Solid for two weeks in regards to the heater? Nothing but a recording and no one responds to my messages. Are they reputable to purchase from?
Many thanks, this will also help others.
Its a 10 litter TIG cooler off of Ebay. Not sure what brand, there see, to be several that all look the same. I had good luck with US solids using email
Thanks for making this video!
If you made a tube of furnace cement for the coil to operate within, the work would heat up even faster and it would also maintain higher temps.
If you would allow the iron to come in contact (for even higher induction field), you won’t short the coil out, because copper is a better electrical conductor.
Also, if one places an RF capacitor (designed for high power tank circuits), the coils used would reach even higher power.
Do you think you could make a cone shaped coil? With a cone you could feed smaller matterial deeper into the cone (when you first started the small bar), then as the leaf is formed you don't put it as deep in the cone and it still heats your material without having to keep changing coils. A slightly flattened cone might work the best for that..... so basically a mix of the different size and shape coils you used all mixed into one. You could even have a coil for doing that leaf if you were doing a lot of them...... a bit like production runs of your leaf hold fasts. I would love to know if the slightly flatted cone shaped coil would work........ please? 😅 That is an awesome piece of kit! 👍👍👍👍👍
While there are lots of options in coils, there are limits to how large they can be and still work properly. Overly complex designs might fall short due to the length of tubing in the coil. But there are still lots of proven designs I haven't tried yet so small egg shaped and cone shaped coils are likely to see some use.
I wonder if for making rivveted chainmail this would be helpful
Or for arrow head making.
I am trying to understand the principle of the induction method. What frequency is used and what is the optimum number of turns used in the coil? In real terms what power is drawn from the mains power? I really enjoy your videos! Thank you so much.
I wish I could explain the science behind it, but it seems a bit like magic to me. As far as power its 240V on a 30A breaker and only draws power when heating, which is a lot less of the time in the shop then we tend to think it is.
How much current and Watts are you using per heat?
When you don't have anything in the coils, is the induction heater still using power?
The welder is obviously faster than other forging techniques in heating your material, but how long do you think it will take for your overall savings (in efficiency) for you to get to the break even point in your investment?
240 volts at 30amps. Thats about 7KW. Hard to say about breaking even on efficiency, but I suspect the operating costs will be much less than I pay for propane and better yet when compared to coal.
Gasket material for the doors of wood stoves is often made as a hollow tube of woven fabric, could possibly slip that over tubing for handmade coils instead of the ceramic that flakes off .
And I wonder if a small platform close under the coil would block convection airflow and allow higher temps with less cooling ?
Worth taking a look at
Oh! Love that induction forge! Add that to my wish list! Along with the MZ75 power hammer from Kens Custom Iron! Someday... Maybe. As always, a great video! Thanks John!
I really like the idea of these things, and I'm sure you probably mention the size restriction (haven't got there yet), but even with the bump in heat speed, I'm in more of a crucible/odd size requirement camp where this wouldn't be particularly useful. I've looked at building a custom model for years but haven't been able to justify the cost versus trucking anthracite coal to my house via the Brown Box Truck Magicians, and it's not particularly convenient trying to get small volumes of anthracite coal to Texas!
It's kind of like buying a new truck for me. Old one still works great, and doing the usual maintenance is far easier to swallow versus new truck note.
I'm sure you're aware of this technique but I'll mention it. When curving your leaf, hammering on a stump end will support and allow it to curve without any unwanted scratches. As its used the stump will develop divots (from burning) that can match several different sized leaves. I like the induction heater. Can you make square shaped coils that are wide across but more narrow in thickness that will accept leave shaped objects? Thanks for posting. UPDATE Well I guess I should have watched the whole video before asking my question. lol
Happy Easter to you and jennet. That is a grate piece of equipment mate.
how does the running cost compeer to the coil and gas forge. :)
I think it will be less than propane and lots less than coal, in our area.
This is jaw dropping 21`st century with top notch blacksmithing skills 👍👍👍😊
You might consider looking up a different style of coil called a "taco shell" coil. I found the video on the youtube channel "EJ of the Anvil" titled "Good coil for blacksmith induction forge welding". He made a coil in the shape of a taco so that a side is open. This allowed him to bring in 2 bars together through the open side without having to pass the whole piece through a ring like you were struggling with. Might find it useful if you're going to continue working with induction forging. Really enjoy watching your channel, keep up the good work!
Link to video:
th-cam.com/video/P1TY2Zgrhro/w-d-xo.html
Being an electronics guy, induction forges uses high-frequency AC to induce huge amounts of eddy currents in the metal. The metal is not a perfect conductor, so there is a fair amount of resistance. The current flow against the resistance is what causes it to heat up. It's the same principle as an induction cooktop. But anyways, you make blacksmithing look easy. Good videos and good work.
You can actually make multi-loop/heat zone coils for production. I also have some books and papers on induction heating and coil design/fabrication I'd love to share if you're interested!
This is really interesting. I have always wondered how blacksmiths would be able to work without burning stuff.
Induction works with high frequency. I would bet it develops a resonance through that copper. Probably on some micro level it looks like the tacoma narrow bridge collapse.
Very interesting. I’ve been thinking of getting one of these things. It’s much larger than I expected.
Great video! I have been looking into making coils myself. I cannot wait for the video. I have struggle to find the correct bolts to connect them to the machine.
Anybody forge Maple or oak leaves? Birch are pretty common. ;-)
I have been experimenting mentally with different types of induction forging. Thank you for this. Have you noticed a difference in the steel/metal between a homogeneous heating (induction) vs a gradient heating? Induction heats the metal consistently throughout the geometry vs outside in (and reverse). It seems in my mind this would lead to much easier welding and less inclusions and cracks. It also really seems to open up different metal combos you could do.
That's awesome man. More science in a art that has been around since the start of science. Also I'm just making leaf agree leaf building practice. You make it look very easy
Great job and the induction forge would also have a lot of applications for small multi-use workshops where being able to easily move it out of the way on a single worktable would be an advantage.
On a side note, I would be interested to see your take on making something other than knives with Damascus using scraps that are too small for other uses found around the shop. One of the things I've always found interesting is the 'what do you do' with all the small waste metal you generate in the shop
I covered my coil in a thin layer of chimney sealant, you might lose a few millimeters of space but it still means that you can fit bigger workpeaces in there without shorting the coil
Thank you
Very nice video as usual, Sensei! Seeing this video it made me think that it would be nice to have 3 connections on the induction forge for 3 different sized coils at the same time. That way you can choose the coil you need, very easily and is everything super fast!
Hint: If you manage to pop a hole in a coil JB Weld fixes it up.
Great tip
Does it take as much electrical energy as a welder, or a space heater?
Probably less. It only needs full power when heating, Just sitting while your at the anvil or doing something else it uses very little power
Thanks for sharing your induction forging. Looking forward to more.
Superb.
Thank you this helps me decide on an induction heater without worry.
Are these issues with stress build up related to the very localised heating? I guess heating with a torch has the same issue?
Awesome! I've been looking for a heat source that military housing would let me use! My only concern about induction was it's versatility. Looks like you can still some welding though! I'm considering it more seriously now.
with a couple of small ball-valves, you could easily have a selection of loops :)
Hello, John! I just ordered this same induction forge. Can you tell me what kind of cooling setup you are using? I was thinking a submersible pond pump in a 5 gallon bucket of water would work. Your thoughts or suggestions?
I am using a TIG cooling unit that meets the manufactures specs for water flow
@@BlackBearForge John re: spec's "Flow Rate of Cooling Water 7.5 L/Min" I wonder what volume of water you are using in your TIG unit and whether the water got hot due to volume of water? Most/Many TIG cooler units have about 2 gallon capacity. If yours is in this category, do you think it is enough? Or do you have a significantly larger water capacity? Seems like similar situation to quench oil capacity.. Too little oil heats up fast. I just ordered the US Solid and trying to decide on cooler. thanks for your advice.
How are you cooling it? What do you use?
TIG torch cooler
what happens if the work touches a coil?
it can spark, but doesn't really hurt anything unless it happens often enough to weaken the coil.
Great video, John! That was a great success!
Very interesting John, thanks for sharing
I've been watching assorted videos on these forges. My question is, do the coils have to be round or can you use some other shapes like square or oval?
The limiting factor for shape is the ability to bend the copper tubing without kinking it. Square bends aren't realistic. But oval coils are fairly common.
@@BlackBearForge Ahh, so the coolant circulates through the coils as well. Not just the machine itself. I should have picked up on that. Thank you, sir.
at industry level there are fancy fabricated coils with square corners, but always the cooling fluid in them needs a path... google can find whole pdf on making coils
Good morning from Alberta, please, could you let me know roughly the cost of this induction unit?
They run around $1,000 US. Thats just for the induction unit. they will require a cooling system, which could be home made
That heating speed is just insane
I was wondering about oxygen getting to the metal. It looks like there would be more oxygen getting to the metal than with a coal forge. Does it produce more scale? or make the weld harder to stick?
It seems likely, but I don't notice that the scale is very bad. The increased air flow in both coal and gas forges might be worse. Of course flux helps keep oxidation away if its an issue
Very cool use of electrical energy! I wonder if a properly prepared coil would allow controlling the depth of heat in larger objects; for instance to harden or temper an anvil face.
Probably, but it would require a much larger unit to run a coil that large. Our local steel mill now uses induction heating for production