Louis Theroux on Neo-Nazis, Jimmy Savile, UFO Cults, and Scientology
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2022
- The Michael Shermer Show # 267
Shermer and Theroux discuss: how documentary films are made • religious fanaticism and why people believe • UFO cults, end-times sects, and cognitive dissonance • Scientology: religion or cult? • neo-Nazis and anti-Semitism • prisons, pornography, and prostitution • Jeffrey Epstein and Jimmy Savile • self-help movements and gurus • deception and self-deception • social proof and human conformity • are humans naturally rational, irrational, or both?
Louis Theroux is a genre-defining documentary filmmaker best known for his explorations of controversial and complex topics. Using a gentle questioning style and an informal approach, Louis has shone light on intriguing beliefs, behaviors, and institutions by getting to know the people at the heart of them - from the officers and inmates at San Quentin prison to the extreme believers of the Westboro Baptist Church; from male porn performers in California to young women with eating disorders in London.
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Louis is seriously my favorite person to watch and hear talk he’s so damn intelligent and his shows are the best
Louis is the best documentary maker ever
Wow! Louis is probably the most reasonable documentary film maker I have ever heard! Very good guest Michael!
Been waiting for this for a while. Excellent discussion.
Thank you for this top interview, the back and forth was excellent.
Love Louis! Thank you! 🌸
A great interview :)
❤ Your work and attitude.
I could listen to you 2 all day.
So much more to unpack
Good interview
Always enjoy listening to Louie.
Incredibly insightful conversation and very refreshing to hear you both talk about these topics in a way that is not overly self righteous. Great work!
57:42 "Sensitivity training" - really!? Now thats one subject that should warrant a high amount of scepticism.
Excellent thank you!
Good stuff Chaps ☘️
Brilliant show
y is it the 'most replayed' is always bang on?
Great episode. One of my favourite podcasts
Great to see that Louis is completely relaxed and then speaks freely. Michael, you are a great communicator.
Damn, you got Monsieur Theroux !?
What a treat. He truly is one of my favorite humanoids on this planet.
Two tumbs up from me to the Skeptic!
Great guest 💯
1:17:15
"Imaginez Dieu sans les prisons. Quelle solitude!"
The French use the same word for "loneliness" and "solitude".
Now that Ive seen it, it amazes me you guys took so long to encounter each other! Glad you finally did.
Looks good I'll watch this at some point this week..fan of both..
Love podcast
Jre brought me here his humility and willing to admit mistake i loved that
Brilliant 👍
The gift of skepticism teaches us not to believe everything we think.
It also gives us a rational approach to claims we don't yet believe, which is crucial.
@@MarksMindBox
Agreed.
Well i get small movies that play in my mind that foretell of peoples deaths.
They're 100% accurate. And I hate them. But I can't stop them.
I've been right next to 50 people who either got murdered or were the murderer and i sensed it at the time.
Cause people are constant liars I've let them all get murdered or kill off the other person.
I warned Benji Venuman a few times and he got spooked by it but ultimately didn't listen.
He told his girlfriend though.
I saw the car and I saw who was driving it and I know he's not supposed to be driving it so I pointed my fingers at him instantly and showed what was going to happen to him.
I saw the car days later and instantly I pointed my fingers at him and pulled the trigger again.
He was really unnerved by it. But he never bothered to stop the car and find out what I know.
The next time I saw the car he waved hello to me. I waved back and as he was driving to the restaurant i pulled the trigger again at his back as he drove away from me.
I imitated firing 2 shots into the back of him.
He got shot in the back in that restaurant 2 weeks later.
@@dreyn7780 that's really interesting and sounds like it'd be highly traumatic, if true.
The skeptical position (nor the OP) doesn't say the default position is to disbelieve any claim - that's 'cynicism'. Skepticism just requires that belief in any claim is supported by appropriate evidence.
Rationalism is illogical if you assume logic is a priori. Because this then collapses laws of logic on themselves, if logic can be arbitrarily true, then equally so untruth can be arbitrary as well. It collapses possibility for knowledge/epistemology, and therefore you reduce into absurdity and relativism. Only way to ground logic is transcendental appeal, and beyond that appeal in order to avoid an ad infinitum scenario is you appeal to a final self satiating self actualizing point in God. Therefore if you reject omnipotence, omnibenevolence, omniscience you reject the possibility of coherence itself. Therefore skepticism of God is illogical.
Him talking about Westboro Baptist Church is interesting.
1:10:29 The extremely rewarding context of being at play, that something is really afoot… the social reinforcement that we are really up to something!
Allusive in group concepts and language allow members to hear that their own hopes and dream are what’s at stake.
Looking forward to this one during my workout today
where's the reply?
Was in a church once and had an evangelical snake oil guy be a guest speaker. Promised to heal a guy with a cane. After service needed it again. Same service he guessed someone was hard of hearing some people volunteered me knowing I was half deaf. The guy literally smacked my head than backed away and asked me something. I responded “What”?! Hahahahaha The Whole church was laughing.
I'm Australian. I remember seeing another Aussie guy in a documentary who was at Waco with David Koresh, and in an interview decades later, he said he _still_ believed Koresh had divine powers.
Maybe Koresh did have divine powers? How do you know he didn't?
Love Louis' films. This is a great show!
The pieces are slowly coming together
Wow. Just wow.
Incredible conversation, mind blown!
Never come across this channel before & I'm sure it was recommended bc of Louis Theroux. He is one of my favorite documentarions. Actually I'm currently reading his book!
There's more than one book and they're both worth the read!
@BigDiggerNicks jealous?
I love his American accent
Louis is on Counterpunch author list and has a lot of interesting stuff and always interesting
The Self-Help Movement is aptly named. The gurus in it sure do walk the talk: They self-help themselves to other peoples' money. Very closely tied to the Get Rich Quick By Duping Other People Movement.
One way they self-help themselves to riches is to write a self-help book. Of course if in such a book they illustrated how they met their own success (ie by writing a self-help book), they would give the game away.
So that's the one self-help strategy that might actually work, but the very one they can't mention. If they did, it would become apparent that it is a recursive approach, like an MLM.
What a great find Prof Shermer: Theroux is a smart, creative and fascinating guy on all fronts. Thx! D.A., J.D., NYC
Jimmy Savile: Yes he did a mix of things, some good, a lot bad. But the good things were camouflage for the bad things. They enabled him to appear legitimate and get close to powerful people who could protect him. He is not the only one who used such a strategy. Clement Freud comes to mind. And curiously as far as I recall he shared an office with another politician, Cyril Smith, who also slipped below the radar while alive. So carefully consider the reasons why a bad person does good things.
Yeah I didn’t really agree at all when Shermer was trying to say it’s acceptable to take a nuanced on view on Savile because he did good things too. He did these good things as a way of gaining an unprecedented level of access to children, and to shield himself from the potential of facing any justice in his lifetime. It’s really not comparable to Bill Clinton at all.
But, I’ll leave that down to Shermer probably just not being fully clued up on Savile and the horrendous magnitude and depravity of his crimes (considering he mispronounced his surname after Louis already said it 😂).
Exactly - the 'good' things being motivated to manipulate and groom victims and their families
@@rsb8380 exactly. Some people don't deserve a pass of any kind even if some of their actions benefitted some people. Dude was a monster.
I'd say it's one of the most commonly used (and effective) strategies of subterfuge used by psychopaths and people in power for centuries. It's been used by groups and individuals in positions of authority forever and it's still going on. Nothing new.
where's the other 2 replies?
TV Nation was a great show.
Louis Louis…oh, baby! London legend. Love his work and his whole shtick. He’s so good.
Having written that ... my brother brought a Rolf Harris pic about 6 month before stuff came out about him. The painting came down and has been under bed eversince Apparently a wonderful image. Stay under the bed or go on the wall? Not an easy the choice given all the baggage that would come with its display.
I'm an atheist who worked in a synagogue for 15 years (everyone knew I was an atheist... I never tried to hide it). It always struck me as strange that I was around people who believed that their god is real and the Old Testament is true, yet they would be very logical about everything else. In my 15 years there I heard lots of crazy stuff and it always threw me for a loop, but afterwards they were back to reality again about everything else. Very strange.
Maybe you aren’t as logical as you like to think you are?
I'm a religious person who worked a job for 15 years (everyone knew I was a religious person.. I never tried to hide it). It always struck me as strange that I was around people who believed that their particular worldview and morality is real and true, yet they would be very logical about everything else. In my 15 years there I heard lots of crazy stuff and it always threw me for a loop, but afterwards they were back to reality again about everything else. Very strange.
@@tayzk5929 -- Two things: 1st) You gave yourself a thumbs up. Yes, you know you did. 2nd) How exactly is a revealed religion based on faith (after all, it wasn't revealed to you but allegedly revealed to someone you never met who lived several thousand years ago) and impossible to believe stories equal in your mind to a scientific, evidence-based worldview? You are pathetic.
@@tayzk5929 funny
@@mvubu6823 sure a lot better than a 50 comment exchange that ends on the same note . . . without all the aggravations
1:02:05
"Without Twitter, no Trump, right?"
It is indeterminable whether Donald Trump would have lost the 2016 election had Twitter never existed. If Twitter hadn't been invented, the Twitter social media platform would not have been available to the benefit or the detriment of *any* political candidate.
@Pat M
"Without Twitter, no Biden."
Just as implausible and improvable.
@@jeffersonianideal no thats not inplausible or improveable.
the social media extremists pushed the hunter story off the web. it would have changed, polls have proven, enough votes to change the outcome, had people known of it.
of course, unless further "fortification" would have ensued... which, in turn, wouldnt be happening without the extremist politicisation of the climate as a result of the extremists at the social media companeis
@@wasdwasdedsf
Ok then, prove it.
@@jeffersonianideal huh? as i said, its already been proved. you say this as if its not beyond proven, common knowledge...
considering how politicised you are, how do you not know that enormous of a fact, that your electio was stolen as a result of your politicised, extremist, clown media sites ran by ter-ts?
that doesnt speak well for your credibillity
Phase 1 of life: believing everything
Phase 2: Being skeptic of everything
Phase 3: Being skeptic of everything, including your own skepticism.
Amazon Prime took down the interview with Savile, I wonder why??
Superb interview. Mr Theroux has seen some interesting things.
He is best on tiktok for his song "My money don't jiggle jiggle it folds"
"I like to see you wiggle wiggle for sure"
This was a great interview. Louis is an absolute legend, and I don't think you should wait until next year to have him on, he was obviously pressed for time in this one, so couldn't fully expand the topics he was speaking on with you in the way that he could've. I'm not joking when I say I could've listened to this for twice the length of time it lasted, and I wouldn't feel bored.
Wow! You managed to get a great guest, Michael. This makes up for subjecting us to Dave Rubin.
You dont have to watch it
Pretty unfair. Any criticism of Wokeism gladly received …
...your two cents is irrelevant
@@drgeorgek Dave Rubin is a charlatan out to make money. He has no true ideology. It was amusing watching him prostrate himself to his overlords over the adoption.
@@infinitemonkey917 nothing wrong with making some coin
"It's not a lie, if you believe it." -- The Immortal Teachings of George Costanza
Louis has part of his beard missing on his left side ?
45:47
A significant aspect of Libertarianism is wanting for someone else what they want for themselves.
A lot of the time, what people want for themselves is harmful and immoral in respect to themselves and others.
@@tayzk5929
The determining factor is whether a human being refrains from depriving another person of life, liberty or property through the use of force.
The government is certainly no arbiter of morality.
@@jeffersonianideal I know what Libertarian morality says. I disagree with it.
Yes, the government is a tool that can be used(or not) for good or evil, the government isn't an arbiter of morality. That's true.
From what I've seen, people who call themselves libertarian only want things for themselves and do not care about others . They demand their "rights" while trampling on the rights of others. To me "libertarian" is synonymous with "inconsiderate assshole"
@@tayzk5929
What is "Libertarian morality"?
When is it permissible for you to use force, against and otherwise, peaceable human being, to either, coerce that person to do something he/she doesn't want to do, or use violence against an otherwise peaceable human being to prevent such a person from engaging in an activity they voluntarily choose to participate in?
- This was a very interesting and entertaining interview / conversation : 👍 👍 👍
At 1, 18, 35, Harlan Ellison is quoted as being present for the invention of Scientology.
Harlan is the Forrest Gump of the sci-fi world.
I had a job back in the fifties delivering drugs and chemicals to mental asylums I was only there for about 30 mins but picked up the atmosphere of the place and carried it for a while after I left. I seemed to be more aware of my own mental state
happens to me every time I visit my grandma (she is 90 and in a home for eldeders). Once I leave I can't avoid to think death is so close to all of us. Everyone looks so young outside that home. Even after a short visit I remind myself we all are finite.
I filmed the Rapture on may 11 2011. I still have the vid on my YT channel
great conversation.
yeah, not bad, But they clearly have TDS
can't see the reply
@@solomonsangori1033 say what?
What is a platform where I can find Loius' stuff? Last time I looked I couldn't find it
nvm they answered my question it's amazon prime!
louis is a genius...but he talks his part very well
Great to see Louis, thanks. His simple-looking style hides a depth of skill & content which is a welcome alternative to slickly-presented vacuous TV.
Why do you like him? While I can see why some of his work is entertaining and might fool people, he's emblematic of dishonest monopolized left-wing journalism.
@@tayzk5929 , "Why do you like him?" - again, I like him because of "a depth of skill & content which is a welcome alternative to slickly-presented vacuous TV". Isn't there enough media nonsense to permit an alternative view?
@@tayzk5929 he's getting at something more human than concept or ideal,
for instance, watching doors slam on Mike Wallace from old 60 mins shows was fun for a season but Theroux gets thru the front door.
& as far as dishonest, ok, he lets people (potential marks) believe what they want about his intent without correcting them, like Borat, so it is entertainment, which is monetized.
would u say Sacha Cohen is more honest becuz he in later years broke character & speaks about his stance on issues as a person?
also, like Jon Ronson, maybe Theroux is open in a way, ok with not being so certain, with admitting & saying " i don't know" ?
@@mindsigh4 Sacha Cohen is another example of someone who is extremely dishonest and immoral, to make money and distort reality.
@@mindsigh4 he sure didnt treat the jan6 people honestly or fairly
Maybe you only THOUGHT you hadn't been hypnotized, Louis. 🙂
Anyway, I've seen stage hypnosis, several times, at uni and since. *They always test the audience, for the most susceptible, about 10% or so, who are really susceptible to hypnosis* . They use an "arm floating" test.
You can also tell, in clinical hypnosis, if they are "under" at all, when their facial muscles relax and there is a slight skin flush. Some people can go "deeper" than others.
Theroux has this gift to be sincere. And you feel safe with him. Often can intelligence makes you feel uncomfortably. But Lois seems to indulge empathy. I’m a bit disagreeable! Because I often feel I’m in opposition to the ordinary people. And I suggest what I think people should do for a better world. But naively I thought people would agree. But instead I might continue my fight but using more intelligence than I am used to. Need to learn the hole life
1:17:22
A god that does not exist is also a god never to be angry at or disappointed by.
@liam nicklin
How do you account for rhinoplasty?
This is how psychopaths think .
@@alisonhilll4317
Please elaborate.
Louis Theroux: he has some interesting documentaries...... I really like his exposes ......... and didn't he do a great one on the cult in the U.S. ........ Scientology ? Yeah.
I always look for his............
Micheal - keep up the great work; your discussions and interviews are really well done.
You go good research before your interviews, and ask great questions based on your knowledge.
Thanks for the intellectual content ! I.Q. ENHANCING material.
I have followed Mr Shermers work for years, and have concluded that the problem with being a professional sceptic is that you end up being sceptical of EVERYTHING including the truth.
Good interview though.
Shermer isn't very skeptical about Left wing ideology that has murdered 100 million people
His skepticism is very selective
Michael's explanation of pizzagate (the basement) doesn't mention the pizza/pasta codewords used in the Podesta emails, which are all searchable on Wikileaks site. Why does everyone focus on the Comet Ping Pong thing and not the weird codewords in the emails?
And there is a basement !
it goes so deep.. massive amounts of data and dark creepy shit surrounding all of it. It's really obnoxious hearing people comment so dismissively about it when they don't even know what they're talking about.
Yes it's tragic
To understand all is to forgive all... And if you do understand that 'logic' and 'rationality' are complex, in human minds, and we understand everyone is on good faith and self deceived, then how can we get anyone out, or help them in a constructive way to not do harm... If we don't have a shared 'logic', way of assessing and elaborating information, is there any way to minimise the harm that is done through many dangerous convictions?
Leaving aside that it might be 'wrong' to even disagree with them at all, that the majority may be the more brainwashed side, who's to say? And after all it's just a simulation anyway 🤣🤣
🎵My money doesn't giggle giggle it fold.😳👌💨💨💨🎵
Revolutionary momentum is a result of or response to boredom? Sounds like a Tweet in the abscence of any serious contemplation or reading on the subject, not a coherrent theory.
louis (and sacha baron cohen) have an amazing skill of asking questions that seem neutral but force the interviewee to expose their true beliefs
He made sure to scrub the Saville doc from youtube cause you can clearly see he was fanboying in it.
Every race has a right to be its own
You are a bad propagandist
Love his American accent, don't know if it's accurate or offensive, but he rarely seems to use it when he respects their views. :D
I've counted three different ones in the first half hour and they all sound very natural to me as a Canadian. He's a real Daniel Day-Therouxis with the accents.
Hah bet you haven't heard that one before Louis you fffffuck!
To me it is very simple and fundamental as a Citizen that all Police Services ARE REQUIRED TO - Use the Minimum Force Necessary to Secure a Situation - Then to Become Completely Responsible and Obligated to Protect the Welfare and Well Being of the Citizen that they have arrested. No confusion Here - That is Their Duty to Serve and Protect!!!
My money doesn't jiggle jiggle it folds
I don't think guilt re Savile, more a fear of being judged, in this life or the next.
go louis
I didn't know his dad is Paul Theroux! fuck yeah
🧡💛💚💙 Timestamps people TIME STAMPS
💯❤️🙏🏽🤩
Just have to say that at one point it sounded a little bad, like "Back in my days we fought these important problems, but these kids today are just bored and jealous of us, so the struggle with these lesser problems they can come up with. Nothing wrong with that, let the kids play."
What would it take for us not to believe in climate change?
Gawd
my money don't jiggle jiggle
Timestamps
Thoroughly Theroux
Did he stop shaving halfway and gave up? Just wondering why his beard is super neat on one side and the other is wild 😃
Superb guest and I’ve seen all his documentaries
I think for some people, believing what they say is not as important as it is to most people. This notion that conmen believe their own stories I think is false. It is just that what is true does not matter to them.
A rational mind, being necessary for a reasoned thinking process, the importance of a well-calibrated crap detector shall not be underrated.
Thoughts are at the end of a process.
A few things need to happen before the thoughts become possible.
If those few things don't happen the thoughts don't occur.
No healthy body, No healthy thoughts.
@@dreyn7780
Did Dr. Stephen Hawking have a "healthy body"?
@@jeffersonianideal if you’re not in a conversation yet, do you get to ask questions?
@@dreyn7780
Who wrote the OP?
@@dreyn7780 if you're not in a conversation yet, do you get to make stupid statements without realising who posted the original comment? 🤔
My money don't jiggle jiggle...
All I hear is “My money don’t jiggle jiggle…”
Yeah
It's super weird how these two speak as if they are perfectly rational and there's no possibility they could be wrong about any of their perceptions.
They both seem to have this incredibly strong compulsion to enforce what normality is and that they be the normal ones.
I noticed that as well
Huh? What's wrong with dignity and respect? You realize that is their gospel or what?😏
Identifying bullshit, a life’s work.
Outside of the norm is abnormal.
I think Louis at points conceded his openness to the possibility he's wrong.
58:02 Throwing boredom on the fire
social logic is a big part of irrationality for sure (and in that sense not irrationality at all) , all those acts and roles we play for others . mass histeria and colective delusions
Listening to Michael Shermer muse about sexual assault is fascinating given the allegations that have followed him for years.
Many of the far right assumes I'm Jewish.. after Shermer assumed he was jewish... hahahaha
Yeah that one backfired, Louie is such a dishonest pos.
can't see the reply