Everesting: What is the optimal climb and riding strategy?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Principles of optimization are explained and applied to the problem of determining the characteristics of a climb, riding intensity and position on the bike which are scientifically optimal for an Everesting challenge. Physics, data collection and data science are used together to calculate the optimal strategy for the Data Science Cyclist. But the findings are generally applicable to anyone regardless of their ability. The optimal approach is determined for a variety of Everesting objectives.
Feel free to leave a comment below and like and share the video.
Good luck with your Everesting adventure! - กีฬา
You sir are a fine sport scientist, I appreciate sharing this piece of wisdom with us.
Great tips. I did it on a very hot day, cold shower and ice were fundamental to keep my body away from overheating
I did my first everesting last week on Alpe du Zwift, hard as hell but the satisfaction at the end is unbelievable!
As a physicist who's done an Everesting I found this interesting. Definitely find the steepest manageable climb and do it at sustainable pace. In terms of choice, a very important factor is to choose a climb where the descent is safe and straightforward and your legs won't go cold. I would recommend to avoid descents of more than 8 mins or so. My ideal would be a vertical gain of 250m and a climbing duration of 15-20 mins. Any longer and it gets more difficult to restart after the descent. Much safer to descend a road you get to know well rather than a longer road that you will do fewer reps on. There'll be fewer hazards to learn to avoid and you will lean the descent much quicker. Not sure if it's possible to quantify this though.
If you can find straight road with wind blowing uphill you got gold 😀
lol I'm planning to do one in belgium, probably on a 20m hill because thats all we have around here
@@tommulder604 with 400 reps what is the %
A thing that nearly everyone forgets to mention that everesting is a very rare challenge where searching for a windy place is an advantage. If you can find a climb in that area that mostly has a big tailwind then it makes the challenge hell a lot "easier" even if the descent will be slower due to the headwind.
You made a great studie about this subject. Well done!
just came across this, thanks for geeking out very thoroughly...and confirming through good data what is the best approach...going to look at my target everest hill steepness now....
Thanks very much for taking the time to do this. I am hoping to complete an Everesting a few months from now and had selected a 10% 4 mile climb near my house. I was planning on getting a very large gear (34-40), staying seated as much as possible, and going as slow as possible (which will probably be about 7 kmh). Glad to hear that science has backed up my strategy. Again, thank you!
Glad it was useful. Sounds like you have a great strategy. Best of luck with your Everesting!
This guy is good! I sat thru this whole video totally focused!
By far the most detailed, yet for the general rider analysis by miles, no pun intended. Would be really interested to see a follow up of how you got on and whether you found if your hypothesis worked for you? Thank you
Fantastic video. Loved it. Thank so much.
Fantastic ... Really interesting, detailed and easy to understand :)
Great video! Eigenvalue stability analysis seems a bit much but is a fun touch to make it more fully thought through! Great approach and great breakdown! Very appealing for people from an engineering or maths background
Thanks for the comment. You're right about the stability analysis - that was going a bit much but it was the rabbit hole I went down! :). Good luck with your Everesting!
thanks for teaching us the study's
Amazing, thank you!
This was very helpful. Thank you. I now have a 2800' climb in 9 miles at a 5.6% grade.
Sounds like you've chosen a good climb. Very best of luck with it!
Fantastic video. Thanks.
low volume
really interesting, i never knew there was no limit , i have literally stopped 3semi-serious attempts as i fell below a 24 hour pace, now i know!
All common sense stuff IMO and I’ve looked at doing this too. You’ve got to work with what you’ve got. Thanks for sharing. Ronan McLaughlins video and podcast is a tell all of how to do it. He’s connected with cycling tips and did 6:42 and holds world record. I’d need close to 24 hours at my age. Good luck with your attempt.
Great work! This is really very detailed analysis. I am curious to know the result. What was the actual result when the learning was implemented?
Super low volume, turn up your mic
Thanks for putting together video. Makes sense. I was thinking for me a 7% around 250km 22hours. But maybe 9% with same power would be better according to your video. I will collect some data doing reps and pick the climb that I will be more likely to succeed. Plan for October 2019 in the Adelaide Hills. Austrália.
The Adelaide Hills is a great place to ride. Good luck with your Everesting attempt!
Hey Pedro, looking at around the same month in Adelaide as well. Which hill are you looking at ? I'm still trying out a few different approaches, ie shorter sharper climbs more reps vs longer climbs less reps etc - messing up my mind though - how did you end up picking the climb ?
Philip Rundle I have not decided on the segment yet. The candidates are Yarabee rd or Mt Osmond (Freeway Side). Think the sweet spot is distance around 2km and grade around 7-8%. But after watching this video I may consider go maybe 9%. But I am not sure. I want to take a very scientific approach and have a good plan and preparation. I think in the end Everesting is an endurance ride more than a steep challenge like the Dirty Dozen. So need to be a grade where your heart rate stays at endurance-tempo maximum rate.
@@junqueirapedro yes, rode Mt Osmond on Friday - 1st time for a while and from the Freeway to the 1st corner isn't a massive issue considering I was still on the 53. Hadn't considered Yarabee though, must go play. Yes I agree on the endurance, want a couple of good 20 plus in the bank I think as well.
@@philiprundle9208 there is a good online resource called www.doogal.co.uk/strava.php put on the map and filter the segments meeting a distance and grade criteria. Then go explore on the weekend
very cool
Hi. Great video. There's an interesting new Metric that seems to have come out of the recent Everesting attempts by Pro's (see the latest Phil Gaimon video). The recent Everesting attempts are being done at Altitude which kind of goes against the grain as there is less oxygen. But the belief is that the air resistance going downhill is less which makes Everesting at altitude when your optimising for minimum time. It would be interesting to get your thoughts on this.
Great point, Phill. Altitude affects air density, which will lead to less aerodynamic resistance particularly when going downhill. If one chooses a low gradient then aerodynamics will be more important going uphill too. But assuming the slope is relatively steep to minimie time, then one will go faster downhill. This needs to be balanced with a possible reduction in power output due to less oxygen uptake, if oxygen intake is a limiter at the chosen altitude. This changes between people; oxygen intake is a limiter for me at altitude. Overall, I would want a warm day at lower to moderate altitude so my oxygen intake will be maximal to maximize my power output as this is more important that the very short time lost in not maximizing descent speed.
What was your nutrition during the ride?
I would think also selecting for good road surface is also important? something at 10% on a rougher surface might be less efficient than new smooth tarmac at 9%? Then also favourable wind conditions.
Nice research. if you already attempt everesting , could you please share your experience?
Just did one this weekend. Video on my channel.
I agree with you where is begs
really interesting video...just went a bit beyond my physics knowledge ;-) But just one question concerning the EMG measurements...did you just looked at amplitude or also at the frequency spectrum of the signal. Just intuitively I would rather ride at a slightly higher cadence, so that less "force per contraction" is needed and thus the load can be carried by the more fatigue resistant motor units (which ty my knowledge also are activated with a lower frequency, thus the question about the frequency content)..
cheers and greetings from switzerland :D
The EMG measurements are highly frequent. They were also strongly correlated with power. You are right that a higher cadence will use more of the aerobic energy system and you can save some of the higher force output per contraction. I agree that higher cadences are better, provided it is naturally comfortable. This can be trained to increase though and will help. Happy cycling and Everesting!
I have a 12 mile hill with 3000 feet each time. I want to try this pretty soon...Wish me luck...
Good luck! You got this!
really interesting! did you publish??
Thanks :). The analyses have only been released here. I was thinking about publishing but got too busy with regular work. Hope you find it useful!
Your aerobic system and endurance have a lot of room for improvement looking at your power values, a good training program would make you improve substantially!
Interesting calculations and science! I tried to create a excel spreadsheet using my data to find the optimal gradient and power for my everesting. However I struggle to put the 24hrs/12hrs curve into the diagram. Any chance you could explain how to calculate this part?
Or maybe there is a ready made spreadsheet? I'd highly appreciate some support here.
Thanks for your comment. These curves are calculated using the physics equation included, for different times (t=12 hours, 24 hours) and different gradients calculate the power required to balance the equation; then enter a new gradient and calculate the new power required. This can be done using solving algorithms or adjusting numbers in excel until the balance is right. I wish you the best in your calculations and even more in your Everesting attempt. Even without doing the calculation directly for yourself, the principle which generally applies is that the best approach is usually the climb with the highest manageable gradient for you. Happy riding!
Low cadence might be more power efficient for these point measures, but doesn't factor differential fatigue profiles for slow-twitch vs fast-twice muscle fibres.
As for this remark: "There is no good reason to attempt Everesting on a shallow gradient". There sure is: it's harder, more impressive, and more likely to remain a unique achievement for longer. I did mine on a 30km climb and five years later, I'm still the only king of that hill.
I would love to be able to ride half-Everest. Best I did was Mt Ventoux in 3 hours. (1600m elevation).
Mt Ventoux is iconic and a great accomplishment! Well done! A half-Everesting is a great aspiration. Good luck!
Good gearing...take your time. Nothing is unachievable if you set the expectation right, prep properly and keep fuelling the body.
Awesome video! Did you ever get around to Everesting? You missed out one crucial factor about a climb though - rep length! I'm getting ready for my third Everesting and will be doing it on a climb that is just under 10 metres of elevation difference. Short & sharp reps seem optimal, as opposed to more drawn-out efforts, it feels like.
Number of reps would be an important psychological factor - good point. Congratulations on completing two Everestings and good luck with your third!
@@davidwilson917 Thanks, it's not only psychological though. Shorter reps mean you get to recover more often, so potentially don't build up lactate or burn energy in the same way as longer, sustained efforts. Definitely something I'd love to see someone dig into in a more sports science-y way!
10 metre reps sounds nuts. There'd be a bit of energy being wasted getting going for each rep, as opposed to maintaining a steady longer climb wouldn't it? I Just did one at 8.5 repeats to complete and the hardest thing was starting up again at the bottom. At least for me rhythm is key. Which also goes to steady gradient climbs or mixed gradient climbs. So many factors.
@@out_spocken Nice work! Having done three (100m, 30m and 10m climbs) I found the shortest ones to be easier and was my fastest. I think it's definitely down to personal preference though - mostly whatever makes a long day in the saddle psychologically easiest for you
Where can one find electromyography shorts?
I got mine from Myontec (www.myontec.com/). Be warned though that they have a limited offer on the accompanying software to get to all the granular detailed data and then the subscription is very expensive. Without the subscription just average data are available from the accopanying phone app. There are other companies who sell these types of shorts.
Did you finish tho?
Thanks for this video it was really interesting. I'm planning on doing a nervous thing in April 2019. My FTP is 252 currently. I am 190 lb body weight and my bike is 17 lb. I'm going to take into consideration everything that you showing here in this video. Have you done any other cycling challenges before this Everest challenge? Great video. When is your Everest challenge going to take place?
Thanks for the comment! I have done other challenges but no single-day efforts close to an Everesting. I am planning to do mine around March 2019. Very best of luck with your training and Everesting. I hope you accomplish it and enjoy the challenge!
@@datasciencecyclist6239 thank you and same to you. All thr best in your Everesting cycling challenge and 2019 challenges to come. Have a good Christmas!
Fantastic video. You'd do well to spend some time in the gym correcting imbalances and building up some muscle to improve knee stability.
I'm not sure a 10% grade at 150 watts would do it...? That works out to about 3.6 mph (looking at this calculator: www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html), which would be a very loooooonng Everesting attempt. There may be more rolling resistance at a shallower grade, but gravity really makes itself known on a steeper one! :-)
Depends on weight - I figure the presenter is rather on the skinny end.
yeah, a wpk would have been better than just straight out watts
Oh no the audio is off I wanted to get the tips.
Basically, choose the steepest manageable climb that is possible to do for a long duration if you want to complete it the fastest or with lowest fatigue. But too steep and you’ll need too much recovery and damage muscles and if your climb is less steep you will have to do too much work to overcome aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance. Aim for the steepest possible climb that’s manageable. And try to make it as constant a gradient as possible.
@@davidwilson917 Thank you for the info.
You went to such great lengths to make a good, informative video, but you didn't bother getting a decent microphone.
I got tired only thinking the whole video about it
I'm into cycling in a big way but eve resting doesn't really interest me.
I do triathlons a lot, the bike is my worst segement. Can someone who's done an everesting who isn't incredible on a bike give me an idea on just how hard it is? lmao cheers
im about to have a look at it. im a 180 ftp, found a 250m 1km hill, i would need to do it around 35 times, im going to go and do a few hill reps on it in a few weeks to see if its feasable for time, energy and what im going to need to put in the car for nutition.
It's hard. Even perfectly planning you're still on the bike for 10+ hours. Everything from fuelling properly and eating more than you think (I only fuelled for 4k cal and burnt 6k cal) to mental adversity. At some point the challenge will swap from physical to mental for a while, then back...and then possible both at the same time toward to end.
I was going to watch this. But quickly realized it was over complicating a relatively simple challenge.
Get fit. Ride hills.
Pick a climb of any length. Ride it until you top 8488m
Hydrate and fuel.
Done.
Gibberish
Maybe good to review your TH-cam video for quality first - your voice volume is too low, or the background added stuff is too loud - too bad i wanted to watch
...turn up the volume. Gasp. I know right. Yes it's not balanced properly but aint hard to adjust the volume yourself lol
I'm sure its an interesting video but I literally can't hear a word you're saying.
too long, limited use. in summary, pick a climb you are comfortable on.