@@NoreenCerroneArt Pads were better, at my experience. I see a few still available on Amazon (blue ones are watercolour) but the prices I am seeing are much higher there than when they were in the store. Jerrysartarama seems to have a few smaller ones for much more reasonable prices.
@@NoreenCerroneArt Search words would be "Bee Creative Art Journal Watercolour" They aren't pads but journals - sorry, I misnamed them. But the paper was thick enough I don't recall much warping anyway
Yes!!! I used canson XL bc that is the paper that my instructor told us to use. I practiced, practiced, and practiced and I was getting so frustrated bc I thought I was not doing something right and that I sucked. I just purchased arches paper and received it yesterday...I tried it and just WOW!!! I now feel like a true artist. I was so happy I thought it was too good to be true. I had struggles for so many months with that horrible paper and I just thought I was missing something and not understanding things. Made me think “I will never get there”. Anyways, thank you for your video and I hope many people that are starting watercolor, they see this video. It’s makes a huge difference, AND it’ll save a lot of disappointments. :)
Thanks for this. I am new to watercolor and bought the canson watercolor paper, I hate it with a passion, but it’s what’s available here in the local stores. Thanks to reviews like this I learned that even as a beginner it is important to buy good watercolor paper. Bad results on canson are not necessarily my fault
Dey NM that’s exactly right! I bought the canson too and struggled so much in the beginning. If you can get a few pieces of cotton paper on sale, you’ll really see the difference.
Same!!!!1 i have the canson one and it makes me so mad, it doesn´t resist a lot of washes like on the first wash it gets ugly, but is what I have, I guess that the good thing will be that when I get cotton paper it will be easier x.x
Ari cheria use it for sketching or planning! That’s what I do. And swatches 😆 so much swatching. If you use a brush that doesn’t hold a lot of water and paint lightly it’s ok for testing color combos and things like that but yeah... cotton is the way to go
If you have a hobby lobby in your area I suggest the Master’s Touch over Canson, I too hate it with a passion. The only decent “cheap” (cellulose) paper I have found for actual painting is Strathmore but even that is a pain once you have experienced 100% cotton
(October 2021) I recently bought some Grumbacher watercolor 9x12 in a spiral bound, In&Out (replaceable) 30 sheet format at Walmart, really well priced, and have been highly surprised and pleased by its agreeable, reworkable performance. I was rather harsh and it stood up to all my layers, lifting, and repeated in the same areas. Then, after my entire onslaught, I gently curved it in several directions, and it has resolved the minor buckling it had shown. (I hadn’t secured it to a board, just masking taped the edges, and Not sure if this good result was partly due to my wetting the reverse of the paper in places where the repeated wetting actions were taking place). I am a fellow Canson WC paper hater. (Although I enjoy the Mi-teintes for pastel work). I hope you have found some good papers. (I Recently paid $1.18 a sheet for the Arches used in the above video, Amazon prime, 9 day shipping). Best wishes, Pat in New Hampshire
Thank you for the review! I live in a small town with no art supplies besides Walmart and Staples. Walmart was selling Strathmore 500 sketchbooks for a while last year so I grabbed some and had a good experience, BUT my issue has been with Strathmore 400. I got the uneven patches that resist paint until it's washed away. And there's always a sheet or two put in backwards. The quality control between the 400 and the 500 was just wow 😂 The quest continues.
Some Bee Co papers are 100% cotton, I bought a large package of individual 9x6 sheets to do small studies and exercises: the costs is a bit of a break, but the sizing is poor, so wet in wet and any kind of laying or lifting is challenging, I still use them for trying out colors and working out compositions on a small scale before committing to a larger sheet, where I use Saunders Waterford. BTW the Arches in a pad is of less quality than the blocks or the sheets, the sizing is not the same... I don't know how they can pull that off, but I have been told that, and when I put it to the test, I found it to be true. And finally, don't forget that sizing and paper has a shelf life, don't buy paper that is old, it will not perform the the high quality that you paid for!!
I have that same Bee Paper, and it dries SO FAST. I did a loose floral exercise on it and again on W&N paper, and they don’t even look like they were made by the same person. The Bee paper looks like it was painted by a tween, while the W&N is really nice, and something I’m proud to show off. The main difference was that the W&N stayed wet for long enough to do wet on wet and drop in color, while the Bees dried before I even finished the flower most of the time, giving everything hard edges and unwanted glazing. The colors were also dulled. So I mainly use it for swatching colors that I mix while painting, dabbing off paint, and marker art. I really like it for markers! I have another cheap, 100% cotton Amazon pad that dries way too fast, so I’ve been using it as my official swatch book. Super useful!
Great video, very helpful. I've been comparing papers too, and my results with Strathmore (which I also used for years) concur with yours - Strathmore seems to have such heavy external sizing that nothing soaks into the paper. In my tests, drips of paint just sat there till they evaporated, instead of ever soaking in! So yeah, the wet on wet is pretty terrible. From what I hear, Arches isn't what it used to be (the company was sold at some point). My big issue with Arches is how badly it warps, it really requires stretching. I hadn't seen any reviews of the Arteza or Meeden (aka Baohong) paper, so thanks for showing that. I have more papers I'm going to test today, and I will be excited to see the results of Legion Stonehenge papers. I know it has some warping issues too (from other videos I've seen) but perhaps it's worth it to stretch since it is a great value. I'm also going to test Cheap Joe's house brand Kilimanjaro - it seems to be made by Fabriano. Of course, Fabriano is not what it used to be either. As far as the really high end of papers, from what I know so far, Hahnemuhle and Lanaquarelle are nearly perfect. But the Hahnemuhle is very very expensive. Lanaquarelle is still expensive, but more affordable. Also, remember buying in 22x30 sheets (especially if you get free shipping) and cutting it up yourself is always much cheaper than buying smaller sheets, pads or blocks. Strathmore 500 is only about 91 cents for 9x12 if you cut it yourself. All you need is a T-square and a sharp box knife (and the cardboard the paper came in, to cut on!)
This is such good information! I’ve been really interested in trying the Kilimanjaro paper. I still find myself going back to the Meeden block. I love it so much, I bought 3 more! It’s just been really great for practice and relaxing and just creating whatever without the stress of working with “precious” expensive paper like Arches. I do really like the arches but avoid using it for practice stuff.
@@NoreenCerroneArt It's great to be able to discuss our findings! If you like paper tests there are a couple really fabulous videos by Jill Poyerd Fine Art here on YT where she tests papers, I highly recommend them.
@@NoreenCerroneArt So I received my paper order and I noticed that visually, Kilimanjaro paper and Fabriano look identical - exact same color and texture. (I had heard a rumor that Kilimanjaro is made by Fabriano.) Strangely enough though, they did not perform exactly the same. My particular sample of Fabriano was great -- mind did better than it performed in Jill Poyerd's tests -- it did better wet on wet than the Kilimanjaro, and it warped less. I'm not sure what to make of that, although I hear others saying Fabriano is inconsistent. Or maybe they don't make the Kilimanjaro with the same sizing. Another thing to note is that if you buy them in single sheets, the Kilimanjaro is actually more expensive than Fabriano! You have to buy a 5 sheet pack to gain a savings; also you should probably wait for it to be on sale (which it is right now). Stonehenge is also significantly cheaper and performed comparably, so that may be a more economical option.
I'm in UK and fortunately I can buy Arches in a sheet from The Art den in Skipton North Yorkshire near where I live and its only £4.50 a sheet its not very heavy but it still a good 100% cotton, I love it.
I love your art. So beautiful. Thank you for reviewing these. I am looking to purchase paper but arches is more expensive than the rest of these in my area.
I struggled for years using bad paper, then I tried arches and what a difference. Lately I have been buying the cotton papers off of Temu and I like most of them .
Thanks for the review, I have been looking at the Meeden paper for the past year and wondering about it...Please consider reviewing Bee's 100% cotton wc paper...they make great drawing paper as well, and Bee is American made, out of Oregon...it is quite affordable
"If you get bad results it's not you, it's the paper" Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! ❤❤❤ I just discovered my passion for drawing and watercolor this summer and started with the Arches paper. Then I watched a video about cheap w.c. paper and tried the winner "GenCrafts" which was only $18 for 60 sheets of 9x12. Tried it today and the paper wouldn't blend with wet on wet but just absorbed the paint leaving a hard edge regardless of how much water I used. It was very discouraging to say the least. I really missed Arches paper and thought maybe I was doing wrong. In fact, I just signed on to find out what I might have been doing wrong when I found your video and was delighted to see the end results compared next to each other. I'm so green at watercolor I just want an encouraging experience so I'll keep moving forward. I'm off to try the Arteza paper. Again, thank you so very much, ❤ Ps. Just checked Amazon. The 9x12 Arteza I found is a little more expensive then the Arches Paper. Their 9x12 is $23 for 14 sheets ($1.64/sheet) compared to Arches $18 for 12 sheets. ($1.50) Am I looking up the wrong Arteza paper?
Thank you for the comparisons. Hadn't tried either Arteza and Meeden before and now I plan to do so. I do a lot of classwork and tutorials, so I really like that the backside of the Arches paper is usable. I have found that some of the lower priced cotton papers do not have work very well using the back side. Bee is 1 paper that I can think of.
You can find the Meeden block under “Bao Hong”! Definitely loving that block. I use it so much. I don’t use the back sides generally but the Arteza can be purchased both one and two sides which is really nice.
Love this tutorial! You mentioned for us to ask if we'd like tutorials on I believe two of the larger pieces you did in his practice pieces here. That would be great. I haven't looked yet to see, so perhaps you may have already done that. I'm hoping you have some info on glazing which she referred to and gouache, so I will check out your other tutorials now! Thank you so much.🎨❣️
I believe what you are seeing on the Arches with the lifting is granulation. Since you mixed multiple pigments together... and Arches is known to granulate heavily.
Really? I didn't know that, but it makes sense as it is a bit toothier. That's one of the things I loved about the Meeden paper. I did want to see how granulation would look on these.
Another good one I am very enjoying is Fabriano Soft Press 100% cotton; Fabriano in general is hit and miss for me, but their 100% cotton pads were also helpful in cold press.
I still haven’t gotten a chance to try Fabriano but from my research the reviews are quite mixed. I was thinking of getting one of those sampler packs of paper from Joe’s Artarama (I think that’s the place?)
@@NoreenCerroneArt I have very good experience with their soft press sheets and Fabriano Artistico pads (140 lb. cold press 20 sheets one), both are 100% cotton My personal rule that if this isn't 100% cotton, I don't buy Fabriano paper, as 25% or 50% cotton ones were usually not very useful.
I like the concept of the testing. However, the paint-water mixture should have been prepared ahead of time rather than mixed separately for each paper. The final test paintings are so different, is that a fair comparison? Still, it was a helpful video, as it’s good to know there is decent paper that’s cheaper than Arches, especially for newer artists. Overall, it’s a good video.
Nice I think arteza is available to me at a art shop I go to I'll give it a shot if it's cheaper than the clair fontaine block, I got one and it's still in the plastic wrap a couple of months later 🤣
Strathmore 500 series used to be their best. 300 & 400 being lesser grades. It got hard to find, and now it looks not so good. I wonder what happened? Good vid, 😊 thanks!
Judy Carter yeah I’m not sure! I used to use it all the time. Lately I’ve been using the Meeden block and the arteza paper a ton. I still have a ton of the Strathmore paper that I use for swatching or demos but otherwise it’s just not as good as the other ones. Luckily they’re all pretty affordable!
I use the Strathmore 400 journals when in the field. This works well for me. I cannot find the 500 paper in any local craft store. If I want it I will need to order it from one of the art supply houses. I cannot find the Meereen locally either, but will do a web search. I really loved both your painting of the rocks and the cosmos. Really great work. If you ever do one of either on a separate video I’d like to see it. I’ll take a look after posting this. Thanks for this video.
This is a great video. I am going to try the Arteza and the Meeden now. I would love a rurotial on the starry sky painting. I have not looked to see if you have made it yet or not. I hope so because it’s really something I want to learn.
I’ve been using the Meeden paper so much lately. I have really fallen in love with it! The paper can take so much and holds up really well. Keep an eye out for a tutorial on the starry sky - I’m working on it now!
Just for fun I tried doodling with watercolor on Southworth 100% 24 lb. cotton resume paper. I found I could use both sides as the color didn't soak through. (This was just doodling, after all.) I didn't do your specific tests, but I'm guessing it would hold up pretty well...and would blow the costs right out of the water! Would this paper satisfy the requirements for beginners who are loathe to pay $1 per sheet?
Shirley S I’ll have to check that one out! I would think it probably doesn’t have the sizing that most watercolor paper has but if it works for your style and what you like to do then I say use it! 24 lb seems a bit thin I think but if you don’t use too much water it should be fine
Resume paper is usually waterproof, you should be able to run it under a sink. It's thin specifically so that it can be put through an inkjet printer. Just today I've been curious about using it for watercolor and boom I see this comment! Serendipity 😊
You can get arches pads for much less, Jerry's artarama has the 9x12 pad of 12 for about $15. This puts them all around the same price except for the Meeden.
Great tip! I've been pricing things out between Jerry's, Amazon, Utrecht, Michael's and we also have Dick Blick's. I still use all of these papers except for the Strathmore!
ive been using canson so long i love it ,i got a paul rubens cotton and didnt know it ,i paint the same on all paper ,now i got some bad cheapo paper on amazon it wasnt till i got bad paper that i appreciated my xl paper ,im not paying that price for arches even though every you tube channel swears by arches.canson is my price range and 30 sheets ive gone through 4 pads i bought a 6 pack for under 50.00 i paint every day and dont sell .if i sold my art id get arches and use my daniel smiths paints,thank you
I used to really like the bee paper cotton rag but it seems so hard to come by now days and it it wasn’t as expensive as arches if anyone know where I can get it I would appreciate it :]
As all of us I started to paint on cheap papers, but after a while switched to great cotton papers like Arches. The difference was overwhelming. But Arches is expensive and its quality deteriorates (my opinion). I use also Canson Heritage but for me Canson Moulin de Roy was much better. Don't know why they changed the line. About a year ago I made my biggest discovery - Clairfontaine Fontaine. 100% cotton, half the price of Arches, brighetr than Arches, when dries gets super flat (Arches does not) and 25 sheets in a block. And it is really great paper to paint on. Still it is just my opinion. :)
@@jerzyk1293 Thank you! Do you have it in the block form, and if you do, are the sheets hard to remove? I went to look up it on Amazon and everyone said the paper was good, but it was impossible to remove the sheets without damaging it.
Hi there :0 this is an awesoem comparison :) . I was wondering , have you tried using the Karin Brushmarker Pro and if so what do yu think is the best paper for them?? I do have some other watercolour paints but from Mont Marte and atm i am loving my Karin's and would just love to see if i can find a good paper or the best cheap paper *as i am on a pension* to use with my Karins as i have found they really do work so much differently. You do have a new sub from me thankyou :)
The Strathmore backside is smoother but I think you definitely can paint on the backside. Because they are loose sheets I sometimes get mixed up which side to use but I’ve never had an issue with those. I haven’t tried the back of the Meeden one, I’ll have to test that out. The arteza pad comes in a “double sided” version which was a dollar more than this one so I think technically you can’t but I didn’t have a problem with it
Technically you can paint on both sides of any watercolor paper, as long as it's heavy enough. Each type (Rough, Hot or Not/Cold pressed) is going to be different. Make some swatches and see what happens.
@@longyarn4288 Not true. Some papers are externally sized so they have a good and bad side. Arches is internally sized so it's the same both ways. You need to check with the manufacturer or test to see.
Miss O.P. I would love to try that paper! Unfortunately I wasn’t able to find a way to get it here in the US. I’ll do some more research to see if I can special order it 🤞😊
Thank you! I’ve been using the Arteza paper a LOT lately and I would say it’s almost better than Arches. It lifts better and it’s cheaper. I really love working on it.
I use French ultramarine and phthalo blue from Daniel smith right now and they are both staining but not as bad as the reds. The French ultramarine is very granulating as well which is nice in my opinion. It can add a lot of dimension when used in different mixes.
Mike Sloan yes!! That’s true. I use a damp cloth and an iron. BUT it is nice to be able to work a bit longer with the thicker papers. I have found I have to stop with lower weights to allow it to dry
People aren't worried about warping bc of how it looks AFTER painting, they're worried about inconsistent absorption & weird run-off of the paint over the warped hills & valleys DURING the painting process.
I won't use arches because they use rabbit glue in their sizing. I'm not vegan, but as a former rabbit owner, I refuse to use any products with rabbits in it. I understand that since rabbits are commonly food in Europe it makes sense for them to use them for their skin, but for me, rabbits are pets, not food
I don‘t like that either - do you have alternative suggestions for watercolor paper? (By the way: That is why I don’t buy real fur brushes - feels strange to paint animals with animals 🤪)
@@heartofaqua1497 i love the strathmore 500 watercolour paper. Its cheap, thick and cotton. I love most of Strathmores paper. And, except their gemini paper, all their paper is vegan. Im not vegan for food, but for things like art stuff, i prefer to use vegan friendly stuff.
Thank you!! I still use the Meeden all the time! Actually the Arteza too. So affordable and they work fabulously. If you can find Bee Paper that is another great one too!
@@lizadivine3785 I was looking for an idea what to do with it maybe pencil or charcoal. I can't even make Christmas cards with it 😔 never mind a painting. I had squirrelled away two pads of it because it was such a good price 🤣 jokes on me.
You know of course that Canson owns Arches, a little known fact. Here is another little known fact, even the 100% cotton paper is made with cellulose of which is what Canson and Strathmore are made. Look both facts up if you don't believe. The "best paper" is the one you like no matter the price or the "cotton percentage". GOD BLESS.
Keep on giving Amazon free plugs. Soon all those cheery stores you ran into when you needed something will be replaced by darkened nondescript buildings. Support local businesses!
BurningtunaDC i suggest amazon only because most people watching my vids have access to that. They don’t have access to my local shops, but they can at least a look at the brand and description so they know what it is before seeing/buying it locally. I agree - buy local when and where you can 😊
Those darkened non-descript buildings will come about either way, bc local seller need to be able to compete online regardless. In fact, Amazon has many independent sellers. Amazon itself is not the seller, it's simply the warehouse facilitator and platform they sell through. Amazon just collects the rent to provide their online storefront, advertising, warehouses, & delivery service. An all-in-one service like that saves small business BOATLOADS in overhead costs. Now, I could buy my art supplies at my local conglomerate: Michael's (who mind you bought out Ace & Moore and Pat Catans), but it'd be no different. It's just another big bad wolf to filter your money into. That's bc art suppliers are forced to sell at local big chain retail stores or on big online platforms in order to compete. Regardless if you buy local or online, the problem (anti-trust monopolization) isn't going to go away -- until we stop voting in the congressmen who bend over whenever the lobbyists come from behind. The weakened anti-trust laws and trade agreements of the 80s and 90s have created a hyper-capitalist, poor quality-manufacturing, and overly consumptive market. It drowns out small businesses who now have to rely on Amazon, Etsy, and Facebook marketplace to stay afloat. You can't separate brick & mortar shops from the internet anymore, bc in order to survive, you sell online or go bankrupt. Take RadioShack & Kmart for example, they waited too long to jump online and as a result they've become defunct for good. Sears and *Bed, Bath & Beyond* were also behind on taking the online shopping trend seriously, and are now suffering for it. Telling people to shop local may have been useful 10 to 15 years ago, but the online market is now too big of a behemoth for "buy local" to be much of a solution. Local shops HAVE to sell online or they risk losing everything. I don't like Amazon from an ethical standpoint, and I try to buy most handmade products directly from sellers on Instagram shops or buy directly from their websites whenever I can. However, quality art supplies aren't typically handmade. They come from big factories with underpaid workers that piece together parts from China or Thailand, and then get shipped over here where they're marked up. Come up with a better solution -- and for pete's sake, stop voting in corrupt idiots.
@@YourMajesty143 Jeff Bezos & Amazon's fortune has increased by SEVERAL billion since this covid story. Small & medium being forced out of business; only the big box, liquor stores and Amazon being allowed to THRIVE.
I wish there were vids on how to make cheap watercolor paper work. After all we are in joe bidens america. My heat is at 62 in a cold climate and I go broke at the grocery store. Arches is definitely not in my budget.
What other brands of paper have you tried and enjoyed? What other supplies/materials would you want to find more affordable options of?
Before they were bought out and vanished, Bee Paper in pads (not sheets) was amazing.
@@hiddenshadow2105 *gasp* they had PADS?!? Uuuugh I would love to have one of those. I really love Bee Paper
@@NoreenCerroneArt Pads were better, at my experience. I see a few still available on Amazon (blue ones are watercolour) but the prices I am seeing are much higher there than when they were in the store.
Jerrysartarama seems to have a few smaller ones for much more reasonable prices.
@@NoreenCerroneArt Search words would be "Bee Creative Art Journal Watercolour"
They aren't pads but journals - sorry, I misnamed them.
But the paper was thick enough I don't recall much warping anyway
@@hiddenshadow2105 definitely gonna check it out!
Yes!!! I used canson XL bc that is the paper that my instructor told us to use. I practiced, practiced, and practiced and I was getting so frustrated bc I thought I was not doing something right and that I sucked. I just purchased arches paper and received it yesterday...I tried it and just WOW!!! I now feel like a true artist. I was so happy I thought it was too good to be true. I had struggles for so many months with that horrible paper and I just thought I was missing something and not understanding things. Made me think “I will never get there”. Anyways, thank you for your video and I hope many people that are starting watercolor, they see this video. It’s makes a huge difference, AND it’ll save a lot of disappointments. :)
I think the "Meeden" brand you are referring to is actually "Baohong Academy" paper. Meeden is a distributor, not the manufacturer.
Thanks for this. I am new to watercolor and bought the canson watercolor paper, I hate it with a passion, but it’s what’s available here in the local stores. Thanks to reviews like this I learned that even as a beginner it is important to buy good watercolor paper. Bad results on canson are not necessarily my fault
Dey NM that’s exactly right! I bought the canson too and struggled so much in the beginning. If you can get a few pieces of cotton paper on sale, you’ll really see the difference.
Same!!!!1 i have the canson one and it makes me so mad, it doesn´t resist a lot of washes like on the first wash it gets ugly, but is what I have, I guess that the good thing will be that when I get cotton paper it will be easier x.x
Ari cheria use it for sketching or planning! That’s what I do. And swatches 😆 so much swatching. If you use a brush that doesn’t hold a lot of water and paint lightly it’s ok for testing color combos and things like that but yeah... cotton is the way to go
If you have a hobby lobby in your area I suggest the Master’s Touch over Canson, I too hate it with a passion. The only decent “cheap” (cellulose) paper I have found for actual painting is Strathmore but even that is a pain once you have experienced 100% cotton
(October 2021) I recently bought some Grumbacher watercolor 9x12 in a spiral bound, In&Out (replaceable) 30 sheet format at Walmart, really well priced, and have been highly surprised and pleased by its agreeable, reworkable performance. I was rather harsh and it stood up to all my layers, lifting, and repeated in the same areas. Then, after my entire onslaught, I gently curved it in several directions, and it has resolved the minor buckling it had shown. (I hadn’t secured it to a board, just masking taped the edges, and Not sure if this good result was partly due to my wetting the reverse of the paper in places where the repeated wetting actions were taking place).
I am a fellow Canson WC paper hater. (Although I enjoy the Mi-teintes for pastel work). I hope you have found some good papers. (I Recently paid $1.18 a sheet for the Arches used in the above video, Amazon prime, 9 day shipping). Best wishes, Pat in New Hampshire
Thank you for the review!
I live in a small town with no art supplies besides Walmart and Staples. Walmart was selling Strathmore 500 sketchbooks for a while last year so I grabbed some and had a good experience, BUT my issue has been with Strathmore 400. I got the uneven patches that resist paint until it's washed away. And there's always a sheet or two put in backwards. The quality control between the 400 and the 500 was just wow 😂 The quest continues.
Yeah I still use the strathmore for sketching and swatches etc. I have so much of it still lol
Some Bee Co papers are 100% cotton, I bought a large package of individual 9x6 sheets to do small studies and exercises: the costs is a bit of a break, but the sizing is poor, so wet in wet and any kind of laying or lifting is challenging, I still use them for trying out colors and working out compositions on a small scale before committing to a larger sheet, where I use Saunders Waterford. BTW the Arches in a pad is of less quality than the blocks or the sheets, the sizing is not the same... I don't know how they can pull that off, but I have been told that, and when I put it to the test, I found it to be true. And finally, don't forget that sizing and paper has a shelf life, don't buy paper that is old, it will not perform the the high quality that you paid for!!
I beg to differ. If you store watercolor paper properly say in not humid conditions like a basement the sizing will not be affected.
I have that same Bee Paper, and it dries SO FAST. I did a loose floral exercise on it and again on W&N paper, and they don’t even look like they were made by the same person. The Bee paper looks like it was painted by a tween, while the W&N is really nice, and something I’m proud to show off. The main difference was that the W&N stayed wet for long enough to do wet on wet and drop in color, while the Bees dried before I even finished the flower most of the time, giving everything hard edges and unwanted glazing. The colors were also dulled.
So I mainly use it for swatching colors that I mix while painting, dabbing off paint, and marker art. I really like it for markers!
I have another cheap, 100% cotton Amazon pad that dries way too fast, so I’ve been using it as my official swatch book. Super useful!
Great video, very helpful. I've been comparing papers too, and my results with Strathmore (which I also used for years) concur with yours - Strathmore seems to have such heavy external sizing that nothing soaks into the paper. In my tests, drips of paint just sat there till they evaporated, instead of ever soaking in! So yeah, the wet on wet is pretty terrible. From what I hear, Arches isn't what it used to be (the company was sold at some point). My big issue with Arches is how badly it warps, it really requires stretching. I hadn't seen any reviews of the Arteza or Meeden (aka Baohong) paper, so thanks for showing that. I have more papers I'm going to test today, and I will be excited to see the results of Legion Stonehenge papers. I know it has some warping issues too (from other videos I've seen) but perhaps it's worth it to stretch since it is a great value. I'm also going to test Cheap Joe's house brand Kilimanjaro - it seems to be made by Fabriano. Of course, Fabriano is not what it used to be either. As far as the really high end of papers, from what I know so far, Hahnemuhle and Lanaquarelle are nearly perfect. But the Hahnemuhle is very very expensive. Lanaquarelle is still expensive, but more affordable. Also, remember buying in 22x30 sheets (especially if you get free shipping) and cutting it up yourself is always much cheaper than buying smaller sheets, pads or blocks. Strathmore 500 is only about 91 cents for 9x12 if you cut it yourself. All you need is a T-square and a sharp box knife (and the cardboard the paper came in, to cut on!)
This is such good information! I’ve been really interested in trying the Kilimanjaro paper. I still find myself going back to the Meeden block. I love it so much, I bought 3 more! It’s just been really great for practice and relaxing and just creating whatever without the stress of working with “precious” expensive paper like Arches. I do really like the arches but avoid using it for practice stuff.
@@NoreenCerroneArt It's great to be able to discuss our findings! If you like paper tests there are a couple really fabulous videos by Jill Poyerd Fine Art here on YT where she tests papers, I highly recommend them.
@@NoreenCerroneArt So I received my paper order and I noticed that visually, Kilimanjaro paper and Fabriano look identical - exact same color and texture. (I had heard a rumor that Kilimanjaro is made by Fabriano.) Strangely enough though, they did not perform exactly the same. My particular sample of Fabriano was great -- mind did better than it performed in Jill Poyerd's tests -- it did better wet on wet than the Kilimanjaro, and it warped less. I'm not sure what to make of that, although I hear others saying Fabriano is inconsistent. Or maybe they don't make the Kilimanjaro with the same sizing. Another thing to note is that if you buy them in single sheets, the Kilimanjaro is actually more expensive than Fabriano! You have to buy a 5 sheet pack to gain a savings; also you should probably wait for it to be on sale (which it is right now). Stonehenge is also significantly cheaper and performed comparably, so that may be a more economical option.
@@jennw6809 I’ve been dying to try Stonehenge. Another youtuber uses it a lot and it looks so nice
I'm in UK and fortunately I can buy Arches in a sheet from The Art den in Skipton North Yorkshire near where I live and its only £4.50 a sheet its not very heavy but it still a good 100% cotton, I love it.
Would love a tutorial on the rocks, thank you!!
Amiee Kane you got it!! It was so enjoyable to do. Are you new to watercolor or have you been painting for a while?
@@NoreenCerroneArt very new, only painting about 6 months and loving it ❤
Amiee Kane that’s fantastic! It’s such a great medium and so fun. Do you have Instagram? I’d love to see some of your work
So would I. Great job on that one and the stellar one.
I love your art. So beautiful. Thank you for reviewing these. I am looking to purchase paper but arches is more expensive than the rest of these in my area.
Thank you! I absolutely love the meeden pad still. It’s just really handy and sturdy
Yes! A tutorial on painting the Rocks!!! Absolutely 😁👍
I struggled for years using bad paper, then I tried arches and what a difference. Lately I have been buying the cotton papers off of Temu and I like most of them .
Thanks for the review, I have been looking at the Meeden paper for the past year and wondering about it...Please consider reviewing Bee's 100% cotton wc paper...they make great drawing paper as well, and Bee is American made, out of Oregon...it is quite affordable
Bee Paper is one of my all time favorites. The paper feel so lush! Unfortunately they got sold I think so it’s been really hard to find!
"If you get bad results it's not you, it's the paper" Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! ❤❤❤ I just discovered my passion for drawing and watercolor this summer and started with the Arches paper. Then I watched a video about cheap w.c. paper and tried the winner "GenCrafts" which was only $18 for 60 sheets of 9x12. Tried it today and the paper wouldn't blend with wet on wet but just absorbed the paint leaving a hard edge regardless of how much water I used. It was very discouraging to say the least. I really missed Arches paper and thought maybe I was doing wrong.
In fact, I just signed on to find out what I might have been doing wrong when I found your video and was delighted to see the end results compared next to each other. I'm so green at watercolor I just want an encouraging experience so I'll keep moving forward. I'm off to try the Arteza paper. Again, thank you so very much, ❤
Ps. Just checked Amazon. The 9x12 Arteza I found is a little more expensive then the Arches Paper.
Their 9x12 is $23 for 14 sheets ($1.64/sheet) compared to Arches $18 for 12 sheets. ($1.50) Am I looking up the wrong Arteza paper?
Thank you for the comparisons. Hadn't tried either Arteza and Meeden before and now I plan to do so. I do a lot of classwork and tutorials, so I really like that the backside of the Arches paper is usable. I have found that some of the lower priced cotton papers do not have work very well using the back side. Bee is 1 paper that I can think of.
You can find the Meeden block under “Bao Hong”! Definitely loving that block. I use it so much. I don’t use the back sides generally but the Arteza can be purchased both one and two sides which is really nice.
Love this tutorial! You mentioned for us to ask if we'd like tutorials on I believe two of the larger pieces you did in his practice pieces here. That would be great. I haven't looked yet to see, so perhaps you may have already done that. I'm hoping you have some info on glazing which she referred to and gouache, so I will check out your other tutorials now! Thank you so much.🎨❣️
I'd love to see a tutorial for your night sky painting, so pretty! Great video, super helpful!👏🏻
There’s one I posted! But I think I’m going to redo it to be a bit shorter and more concise ☺️
@@NoreenCerroneArt 💖
I believe what you are seeing on the Arches with the lifting is granulation. Since you mixed multiple pigments together... and Arches is known to granulate heavily.
Really? I didn't know that, but it makes sense as it is a bit toothier. That's one of the things I loved about the Meeden paper. I did want to see how granulation would look on these.
I've never had any issues with Strathmore cotton watercolour paper. I use the wet on wet technique all the time and it works beautifully.
Also so glad you said set on glass that gives me ideas!
I've seen Arteza but never heard of Meeden. I'll have to keep my eye out and try them.
Another good one I am very enjoying is Fabriano Soft Press 100% cotton; Fabriano in general is hit and miss for me, but their 100% cotton pads were also helpful in cold press.
I still haven’t gotten a chance to try Fabriano but from my research the reviews are quite mixed. I was thinking of getting one of those sampler packs of paper from Joe’s Artarama (I think that’s the place?)
@@NoreenCerroneArt I have very good experience with their soft press sheets and
Fabriano Artistico pads (140 lb. cold press 20 sheets one), both are 100% cotton
My personal rule that if this isn't 100% cotton, I don't buy Fabriano paper, as 25% or 50% cotton ones were usually not very useful.
Thank you for comparing some of the budget papers, been wanting to know an OK starter option, appreciated this thorough review.
I use the Meeden pad all the time! I love it
Loved your painting and would really love to paint the rocks like you have. So if you do make a video on that would really like it.
Thank you! I did make a tutorial on how I did the rocks. ☺️ here you go! th-cam.com/video/PstIkbrIb9M/w-d-xo.html
@@NoreenCerroneArt thank you so much.. Will work on it and put it up here
Yes! Would love a tutorial on both!
Here you go! 💛
Galaxy: th-cam.com/video/mwKUqbH_pgo/w-d-xo.html
River rocks: th-cam.com/video/PstIkbrIb9M/w-d-xo.html
I like the concept of the testing. However, the paint-water mixture should have been prepared ahead of time rather than mixed separately for each paper. The final test paintings are so different, is that a fair comparison? Still, it was a helpful video, as it’s good to know there is decent paper that’s cheaper than Arches, especially for newer artists. Overall, it’s a good video.
You are so right! Next time I do a comparison like this I think that’s definitely the way to go.
Nice I think arteza is available to me at a art shop I go to I'll give it a shot if it's cheaper than the clair fontaine block, I got one and it's still in the plastic wrap a couple of months later 🤣
Strathmore 500 series used to be their best. 300 & 400 being lesser grades. It got hard to find, and now it looks not so good. I wonder what happened?
Good vid, 😊 thanks!
Judy Carter yeah I’m not sure! I used to use it all the time. Lately I’ve been using the Meeden block and the arteza paper a ton. I still have a ton of the Strathmore paper that I use for swatching or demos but otherwise it’s just not as good as the other ones. Luckily they’re all pretty affordable!
I use the Strathmore 400 journals when in the field. This works well for me. I cannot find the 500 paper in any local craft store. If I want it I will need to order it from one of the art supply houses. I cannot find the Meereen locally either, but will do a web search. I really loved both your painting of the rocks and the cosmos. Really great work. If you ever do one of either on a separate video I’d like to see it. I’ll take a look after posting this. Thanks for this video.
@@OkieSketcher1949 My local Walmart just started carrying the 500 in a few sizes of pads and sketchbooks.
Waymire01 - I’ll go by Wally World and look again. Thanks.
This is a great video. I am going to try the Arteza and the Meeden now. I would love a rurotial on the starry sky painting. I have not looked to see if you have made it yet or not. I hope so because it’s really something I want to learn.
I’ve been using the Meeden paper so much lately. I have really fallen in love with it! The paper can take so much and holds up really well. Keep an eye out for a tutorial on the starry sky - I’m working on it now!
It’s premiering now! 😊
Just for fun I tried doodling with watercolor on Southworth 100% 24 lb. cotton resume paper. I found I could use both sides as the color didn't soak through. (This was just doodling, after all.) I didn't do your specific tests, but I'm guessing it would hold up pretty well...and would blow the costs right out of the water! Would this paper satisfy the requirements for beginners who are loathe to pay $1 per sheet?
Shirley S I’ll have to check that one out! I would think it probably doesn’t have the sizing that most watercolor paper has but if it works for your style and what you like to do then I say use it! 24 lb seems a bit thin I think but if you don’t use too much water it should be fine
Resume paper is usually waterproof, you should be able to run it under a sink. It's thin specifically so that it can be put through an inkjet printer. Just today I've been curious about using it for watercolor and boom I see this comment! Serendipity 😊
You can get arches pads for much less, Jerry's artarama has the 9x12 pad of 12 for about $15. This puts them all around the same price except for the Meeden.
Great tip! I've been pricing things out between Jerry's, Amazon, Utrecht, Michael's and we also have Dick Blick's. I still use all of these papers except for the Strathmore!
Have you ever tried Leyton watercolor paper? I wonder which one is better, Leyton or Baohong watercolor paper. Thank you so much 🙏
I haven’t tried that one - thank you for the new suggestion! I love trying new papers.
Did you ever do a tutorial on the paintings?
ive been using canson so long i love it ,i got a paul rubens cotton and didnt know it ,i paint the same on all paper ,now i got some bad cheapo paper on amazon it wasnt till i got bad paper that i appreciated my xl paper ,im not paying that price for arches even though every you tube channel swears by arches.canson is my price range and 30 sheets ive gone through 4 pads i bought a 6 pack for under 50.00 i paint every day and dont sell .if i sold my art id get arches and use my daniel smiths paints,thank you
Thank you for a very informative video. Your voice is so pleasing. I look forward to watching all of your videos.
Thank you! ☺️
I used to really like the bee paper cotton rag but it seems so hard to come by now days and it it wasn’t as expensive as arches if anyone know where I can get it I would appreciate it :]
As all of us I started to paint on cheap papers, but after a while switched to great cotton papers like Arches. The difference was overwhelming. But Arches is expensive and its quality deteriorates (my opinion). I use also Canson Heritage but for me Canson Moulin de Roy was much better. Don't know why they changed the line. About a year ago I made my biggest discovery - Clairfontaine Fontaine. 100% cotton, half the price of Arches, brighetr than Arches, when dries gets super flat (Arches does not) and 25 sheets in a block. And it is really great paper to paint on. Still it is just my opinion. :)
Where do you get it?
@@oldsoul6696 Well ... I just go to the local art store...and buy it. I live in Poland.😄
Oh my local art store has a lot of their watercolor papers! Would you mind telling me which product you bought from them?
@@krabfingers8473 Clairfontaine Fontaine Cold Pressed. Excellen paper.
@@jerzyk1293 Thank you! Do you have it in the block form, and if you do, are the sheets hard to remove? I went to look up it on Amazon and everyone said the paper was good, but it was impossible to remove the sheets without damaging it.
Hi there :0 this is an awesoem comparison :) . I was wondering , have you tried using the Karin Brushmarker Pro and if so what do yu think is the best paper for them?? I do have some other watercolour paints but from Mont Marte and atm i am loving my Karin's and would just love to see if i can find a good paper or the best cheap paper *as i am on a pension* to use with my Karins as i have found they really do work so much differently. You do have a new sub from me thankyou :)
I know we can paint on both sides on Arches. How about the other three?
The Strathmore backside is smoother but I think you definitely can paint on the backside. Because they are loose sheets I sometimes get mixed up which side to use but I’ve never had an issue with those. I haven’t tried the back of the Meeden one, I’ll have to test that out. The arteza pad comes in a “double sided” version which was a dollar more than this one so I think technically you can’t but I didn’t have a problem with it
@@NoreenCerroneArt thanks!
Technically you can paint on both sides of any watercolor paper, as long as it's heavy enough. Each type (Rough, Hot or Not/Cold pressed) is going to be different. Make some swatches and see what happens.
@@longyarn4288 Not true. Some papers are externally sized so they have a good and bad side. Arches is internally sized so it's the same both ways. You need to check with the manufacturer or test to see.
@@waymire01 - Yes, you are correct. ☺ Which is why I suggested swatches on both sides. ☺
The green one isn't Meeden. It's Baohong. Two totally different brands.
That was very helpful, thank you! ❤
Love, love, love your paintings! Thanks for this information.
Yes, please, provide tutorials!
This was super helpful, thank you!
You are so welcome! ❤️
love to see some demonstrations / how tos.
can you tried fountain ink paper? Conqueror Connoisseur 100% Cotton
Miss O.P. I would love to try that paper! Unfortunately I wasn’t able to find a way to get it here in the US. I’ll do some more research to see if I can special order it 🤞😊
Very nice review. Thank you!
Thank you! I’ve been using the Arteza paper a LOT lately and I would say it’s almost better than Arches. It lifts better and it’s cheaper. I really love working on it.
by any chance, is your cerulean blue, staining?
I use French ultramarine and phthalo blue from Daniel smith right now and they are both staining but not as bad as the reds. The French ultramarine is very granulating as well which is nice in my opinion. It can add a lot of dimension when used in different mixes.
@@NoreenCerroneArt Thanks. thats kind of what I was afraid of. the Pthalo. I think thats why you coukdnt lift the color. it was staining.
People are always so worried about "warping"... its very easy to "unwarp" the paper
Mike Sloan yes!! That’s true. I use a damp cloth and an iron. BUT it is nice to be able to work a bit longer with the thicker papers. I have found I have to stop with lower weights to allow it to dry
People aren't worried about warping bc of how it looks AFTER painting, they're worried about inconsistent absorption & weird run-off of the paint over the warped hills & valleys DURING the painting process.
@@YourMajesty143 Stretch the paper before painting and it will be resolved.
Great comparison!
Glad you enjoyed it!
If used Arteezer for years great paper x
Thanks
Nice review, thx!
I won't use arches because they use rabbit glue in their sizing. I'm not vegan, but as a former rabbit owner, I refuse to use any products with rabbits in it. I understand that since rabbits are commonly food in Europe it makes sense for them to use them for their skin, but for me, rabbits are pets, not food
I don‘t like that either - do you have alternative suggestions for watercolor paper? (By the way: That is why I don’t buy real fur brushes - feels strange to paint animals with animals 🤪)
@@heartofaqua1497 i love the strathmore 500 watercolour paper. Its cheap, thick and cotton. I love most of Strathmores paper. And, except their gemini paper, all their paper is vegan. Im not vegan for food, but for things like art stuff, i prefer to use vegan friendly stuff.
So much Informative
Aesthetic Painter thank you!!
Sorry but that is not Meeden, but Baohong paper from China. The brand name is Baohong.
Great vid!
Thank you!! I still use the Meeden all the time! Actually the Arteza too. So affordable and they work fabulously. If you can find Bee Paper that is another great one too!
@@NoreenCerroneArt thank you for the tip!
Amazing!
Thank you! Cheers!
Nice!
daler rowney prestige
The music loop is so grating.
I just had my experience with canson XL, I loathe it😢
I use mine to mix colors on that’s about it.
@@lizadivine3785 I was looking for an idea what to do with it maybe pencil or charcoal.
I can't even make Christmas cards with it 😔 never mind a painting.
I had squirrelled away two pads of it because it was such a good price 🤣 jokes on me.
@nicoleperron3315 I think your ideas are good ones so you didn't really waste your money!
wow you best I am drawing acrylic painting on TH-cam. Please come and heal and ask for a friend. Thank you😍😘😍😄❤️
Thanks for checking it out! I'm subscribed to you :) I love painting with acrylics too.😊
You know of course that Canson owns Arches, a little known fact. Here is another little known fact, even the 100% cotton paper is made with cellulose of which is what Canson and Strathmore are made. Look both facts up if you don't believe. The "best paper" is the one you like no matter the price or the "cotton percentage". GOD BLESS.
The music is distracting and makes it difficult to hear.
Background music so distracting and annoying I can hardly follow you. Thank you for the info 3:10
It would make more sense to keep the positioning of the papers consistent. You gave me a headache.
Keep on giving Amazon free plugs. Soon all those cheery stores you ran into when you needed something will be replaced by darkened nondescript buildings. Support local businesses!
BurningtunaDC i suggest amazon only because most people watching my vids have access to that. They don’t have access to my local shops, but they can at least a look at the brand and description so they know what it is before seeing/buying it locally. I agree - buy local when and where you can 😊
Those darkened non-descript buildings will come about either way, bc local seller need to be able to compete online regardless. In fact, Amazon has many independent sellers. Amazon itself is not the seller, it's simply the warehouse facilitator and platform they sell through. Amazon just collects the rent to provide their online storefront, advertising, warehouses, & delivery service. An all-in-one service like that saves small business BOATLOADS in overhead costs. Now, I could buy my art supplies at my local conglomerate: Michael's (who mind you bought out Ace & Moore and Pat Catans), but it'd be no different. It's just another big bad wolf to filter your money into. That's bc art suppliers are forced to sell at local big chain retail stores or on big online platforms in order to compete.
Regardless if you buy local or online, the problem (anti-trust monopolization) isn't going to go away -- until we stop voting in the congressmen who bend over whenever the lobbyists come from behind. The weakened anti-trust laws and trade agreements of the 80s and 90s have created a hyper-capitalist, poor quality-manufacturing, and overly consumptive market. It drowns out small businesses who now have to rely on Amazon, Etsy, and Facebook marketplace to stay afloat. You can't separate brick & mortar shops from the internet anymore, bc in order to survive, you sell online or go bankrupt. Take RadioShack & Kmart for example, they waited too long to jump online and as a result they've become defunct for good. Sears and *Bed, Bath & Beyond* were also behind on taking the online shopping trend seriously, and are now suffering for it.
Telling people to shop local may have been useful 10 to 15 years ago, but the online market is now too big of a behemoth for "buy local" to be much of a solution. Local shops HAVE to sell online or they risk losing everything. I don't like Amazon from an ethical standpoint, and I try to buy most handmade products directly from sellers on Instagram shops or buy directly from their websites whenever I can. However, quality art supplies aren't typically handmade. They come from big factories with underpaid workers that piece together parts from China or Thailand, and then get shipped over here where they're marked up. Come up with a better solution -- and for pete's sake, stop voting in corrupt idiots.
Mine are already gone. Literally my only option is Hobby Lobby (the walmart of the art world and just as predatory) or online.
@@YourMajesty143 Jeff Bezos & Amazon's fortune has increased by SEVERAL billion since this covid story. Small & medium being forced out of business; only the big box, liquor stores and Amazon being allowed to THRIVE.
I wish there were vids on how to make cheap watercolor paper work. After all we are in joe bidens america. My heat is at 62 in a cold climate and I go broke at the grocery store. Arches is definitely not in my budget.