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The most frustrating one: "hOw dO U hAvE MorALiTy wItHoUt gOd" TAKE AN INTRO TO PHILOSOPHY CLASS Dozens and dozens of morality systems that don't use the bible!
I don't believe anyone is atheist. The fact they had to have believed in God at one time all they're doing is questioning. That would be agnostic. That's how perfect God's plan is you have to have believed in order to say you don't. So, where is an atheist possibly a satanist.
@@cathyrenick8562 You're the one asserting there's a god, we're just saying we don't agree with your assertion. Please take an intro to philosophy class to learn logic.
@@cathyrenick8562 Because obviously all atheists converted from monotheistic religions like Christianity. /s But if everything is according to God's plan, then why should you let it bother you that there are non-believers? If that is also part of the plan, then should you believe the God that made people non-believers just to be hated on by "true believers" is good?
I hate those tiktoks so much. Those people look so incredibly cocky considering they are just copy/pasting someone else's idea without any context or input.
Yep. It's hilarious because you KNOW that when they say "man's desires" they are only thinking of sex, because they have the understanding of a choirboy fresh out of Sunday School about the topic.
Well I belive Jesus said that one should resolve their problems on earth before asking god for forgivness, I belive it was in the Matheus evangelium. Although as this was inconvinient and a good idea it appears to not be too prominent in modern Christianity
@@Messmer_da_Impaler Without God, your morals are based on fear. Which proves that man has a sinful nature. If you have God, then your morals are based on God, and not fear. You are unwittingly proving the Christian stance. And that's without going down the rabbit hole of where morals come from in the first place.
1:58 “Christianity goes against man’s desires more than any other religion.” That’s a lovely argument. However, there’s this thing called Buddhism that you may find interesting. And the Buddha himself said he was not inspired by any god whatsoever.
@@elih6087 problem is, this kind of christianity does see law as somehow bestowed by god, unless they can blame a catholic/atheist/activist_judge for 'corrupting' the law.
Where is a true Christian today? 1John3:23 sums up Christianity. Bigotry and idolatry killed Christianity. 2Thess2:11 is here. The church is fallen. Trump is lawless. They believe THE LIE! Jesus is coming soon for this born-again gay stoner Jew but all hateful bigots will be left behind to suffer the destruction we've caused our planet. Revelation 11:18 says God will destroy those who destroy the earth. It's all fulfilled.
Nah. One of the unique aspects of Christianity as a religion is their eagerness to spread their beliefs to others. Their messiah instructed them to do exactly that. A Christian can be humble and spread the word without contradicting. That is the way of the entire religion. It's probably the reason Christianity has been so incredibly prolific. Other religions primarily recruit via birth.
@@BoomerangVillage "Other religions recruit via birth." Oh the arrogance and sense of specialness of Christians never fails to amuse me. 90 percent of Christians are Christians cause they were indoctrinated by their parents. Christianity thrived through indoctrination not recruitment. That's why missionaries going door to door trying to recruit new Christians fail 99 percent of the time. You can't brainwash those that haven't been indoctrinated, only the mentally vulnerable ones. That's why Christians goes for the kids while their brains are still being programmed.
@@BoomerangVillage Nah. Look at their smug faces. They are narcissistic to the core. A Christian can be humble and spread the word without contradicting is the opposite of humble.
@@124-u7m The answer is yes. There are the schools of thoughts where Results are everything. According to this, the fact that you were a good person makes you a good person. Same holds true for the slightly different school of thought where Actions is all that matters (differs in that the result matters less than the action taken itself). Even with the school of thought where Intent is all that matters, what was the _cause_ of said intent is irrelevant. And thus you end up classified as a good person. Stepping away from those ethical frameworks for a moment, we also have the schools of thoughts classifying humans as a mass of desires and selfishness and even maliciousness. A beast. And that what makes a human civilized - a good person - is the conscious choice to _not_ act on those impulses and desires. Again, the "why" does not really matter, but rather the fact that you made the conscious decision and had the self-control to follow through. Rather, in this philosophy, the more you wanted to do something the better of a person you are when you refrained (so arguably anyone that can be a good person without an imaginary threat of punishment to discipline themselves, is LESS of a good person). I can go on, but overall I think that I can list more schools of thoughts saying you are a good person, than ones that argue that you are not. The latter are pretty much only ones that considers personhood/humanity/goodness as more of an intrinsic part of someone's nature, rather than their decisions and actions - which admittedly includes pretty much all religions with gods who judge your soul on death. ps: as for personal opinion, I don't quite agree with any of the above schools of thoughts. I think people are an equation of nature and nurture, and that you don't even need to be human to be good. I think that we all are complex being where to decide whether we are good or not, we need to consider both desires, intent, actions, results, and scope/context. And everything in-between and beyond. Meaning: the answer is relative to your perspective and 2 separate people/groups can come to different answers. Like the quotes goes: "everyone is their own hero"; "the only difference between a hero and a villain, is who wrote the book". pps: I have no idea if the second one is an actual quote.
@@suzumi111 yes well neither does being a shit person while still claiming to be Christian. Or did you forget the part about loving your enemies, praying for them, going the extra mile, and how you literally cannot be forgiven, like at all, if you can't forgive others, and my personal favorite "he turned to those on his left, and he said he gone from me wretched sinners for I do not know thee. They said but Lord did I not spend my entire life life living for you. The Lord answered saying I was homeless and you did not house me, I was naked and you did not clothe me, I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was sick and you did not visit me, I was in prison and you did not minister to me. And they asked him Lord when did we see you homeless, and naked, and hungry, and sick, and in prison and did not minister to you? And he answered saying that which you did not do to even the least of my brother's you did not do to me. Merely claiming Christ isn't enough either. You gotta work at it. So again, COUNTER question. IF YOU NEED A FEAR OF ETERNAL DAMNATION IN HELL to be a good person, are you REALLY a good person?
@@jamielishbrook2384 i pray for everyone i love everyone you shouldn’t stereotype people i’m really sorry if you’ve been hurt by a christian before because it seems like your projecting but i’ll pray for you!
As a Christian with a good ability to think critically, I agree with you here. Most of the loudest Christians trying to make these claims have no idea what they’re talking about.
As someone who grew up firmly entrenched in the church, there's a shockingly high number of Christians who've never actually read the Bible and just take whatever their priest says on face value.
The best part is that some people think that aetheists hate every part of religion, even teachings. It’s not a package deal. I think you should love your neighbor, but I don’t need to think a guy duplicated bread/fish to think that.
As a newley converted Christian, I honestly agree. I am stoked at how many Christians that are trying to prove something they did not even know about. It makes me feel a little down that a lot of people have the gift ready for them to get served, but none take it ( I meant the book of the bible).
@@iajanusI asked a good friend of mine if he believed in the Bible, and he said that he doesn’t truly believe in the stuff in the beginning I then asked him if he had read the Bible and he said no I have read the Old Testament, and I agree with all of it in being true(other than Genesis’s beginning that is believed to mostly be figurative)
The constant barrage of "Okay, atheists, what's your answer to THIS!" is exhausting and annoying. We're not the ones making a claim. The burden of proof is not on us.
It's a communal form of gish gallop, bombard people with enough claims, and if even one is missed, then QED God. It didn't even have to be actually missed, just missed by enough to lend false credence to the premise.
@@ericgraham8150 Nope, that's anti-theism. "There is no god." Atheism is simpler. "There is no evidence for god, and therefore we shouldn't believe in god." It's not the claim that there is definitely no god. It's the equivalent of the following exchange: Theist: "God exists. I know god. I know god's will!" Atheist: "Prove it." Theist: "Something exists, therefore god!" Atheist: "Nope, try again." Theist: "Your moral framework cannot be grounded without god." Atheist: "Nope, fuck off. Try again."
@@ericgraham8150 No, most atheists only reject the claim that there exists a god, since you can't prove a negative, and a claim without evidence can be rejected without evidence. (But then there is of course lots of evidence that makes the existence of a god unlikely, and also lots of evidence that makes the claim of a god not existing plausible.)
Antitheism isn't "there is no god". Antitheism is "god is harmful/false and we should therefore actively try eradicating it or arguing against it". A subset of atheism is "god doesn't exist and I am certain of that". A minority sure, but it is a flavour of atheism @@SupachargedGaming
From DragonballZ Abridged: "Everyone goes on and on about the children. I tried leaving them alive, but all they do is grow up or devote their pathetic little lives to revenge. Frankly, I consider killing them a kindness. I could retract that kindness, but who would be the villain then?" "Y-you." "That was a rhetorical question." "And I gave you a rhetorical answer."
@@stylesrj *including never wearing mixed fabrics and GOUGING OUT YOUR EYE IF YOU LOOK AT A WOMAN IN A SEXUAL MANNER* Verses: leviticus 19:19 & matthew 5:29, respectfully
Funny thing, in Christianity- the biggest reason for all of the laws, and the biggest point of the scriptures revolves around caring for others In short, a real Christian who upholds the scriptures wants you and everyone to be saved
@@aldrinthehardworker9816I was about to say this I pray for everyone that they can find salvation because hell is a punishment I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy
5 Questions Atheists CANNOT answer: 1. If evolution is true, why does Pikachu require a thunder stone to evolve? 2. How me a dog learn to talk? 3. King Kong is a movie and you believe that, don't you? 4. A train leaves New York traveling at 500 miles per hour at 5 pm on Saturday, and uh... is it... does it get there in time? 5. What came first, the xenomorph or the black goo? Checkmate, Atheists!
1) Because the requirements change with every generation and because of PIkachu's popularity, the devs wanted to make it hard for people to lose that mascot. 2) Because all dogs are good boys! 3) Wait, are you saying it's NOT a documentary or something? 4) Depends if there's someone on the tracks 5) The goo of course. The Engineers were working on all sorts of stuff.
4: Considering the fastest train in the world goes a little over 300 mph, and 500 is over half the speed of sound, and a crash would have the equivalent energy of one thousand and seventy nine sticks of dynamite, unless that train's destination is a flaming ball after it rips through the tracks and causes a city block to be leveled, probably not
Wow. I bet your mommy is so proud of you. Does she still wash your face and wipe your arse? If not who does those things for you? I'll never believe that you've learned to do them yourself, nope. No way. There's absolutely no chance that you're intelligent to get your velcro shoes to stay on without help. Let's talk about how daddy "punishes" you when you mess up. That's not punishment. He's not trying to correct this behavior. 57.5% of pedophiles are white men 96% of those white men are Christians. Have you started growing your own victims yet or are you still reliant on the other church members to keep bringing in new victims?
Have these people even HEARD of Buddhism? The whole point of it is about separating oneself from desire and attachment! Way, way, way more than Christianity does.
Yeah, isn't it's entire premise "wanting things is making you miserable so follow the path to get rid of attachment"???? Even believing in higher beings can be considered as attachment in Buddhism, hence why some schools of Buddhism are indifferent about the existance of higher beings, despite believing they exist, it isn't relevant for them.
@@hineraable A generalization and not entirely correct, but yeah. Depending on flavor of Buddism, it can also mean that wanting things will make OTHER people miserable - that in wanting things, especially things that go against the expected flow of the universe, it can be highly disruptive, destructive, and cruel. For example, say there really was an afterlife, one which requires the living to pray or otherwise perform rituals to allow ghosts to pass on into it. Imagine then, that someone you loved died and was a ghost, waiting for you to perform that ritual. You, because you love that person and want to keep them around/don't want to lose them completely, refuse to perform the ritual. The conceit is that this refusal to perform will, ultimately, make you unhappy and potentially drive you to even worse actions. Would you stop someone else from performing that ritual for your loved one, for instance, and if so, what would stopping them entail for you?
cough the roman obulus was somewhat bound to religion, you was free to keep your gods but had to pay a higher obulus, it was already back then for a small but very selfish group inacceptable and they still think this was not right (2000 years later they cannot forgive, not even what was 5000 years ago, one day they will extinct caused by their own hate and complain about 'til the very end of time) to cut their rights in the empire, but well romans deal, special right here one right less there, it's a fair deal. if you exclude yourself from society as something special then pay a price for it. it prvents from sour blood in the community.
I’m an atheist. I’m also a natural optimist, fervent humanist, and lover of the earth. I find meaning in simply being alive. I find meaning in helping others and making them smile. I find meaning in the joyful experiences around me. I don’t need a god to tell me that my life is meaningful, because I make meaning for myself.
Me too. My parents are Christian, whenever I try to tell them something they assume I am lazy and want to skip church. Really sucks because my entire family will think of me differently if I tell the truth.
I love your energy, but I think the main point of Christianity is to learn that Jesus died for us, you might be wondering why- it's for our sins( if you are curious what sins am I talking about, I honestly wish you would read the bible, although It sounds boring, it will give you an amazing knowledge on history
@@Marshalbrake562a true Christian should never treat another person in a negative way. I'm sure if your parents are under the Lord, when you tell then the truth, they will treat you more with care or without trying to make you more upset
@ hey! I was actually raised Christian, went to Christian sleep away camps growing up, I’ve read the Bible (with annotations.) I strive to educate myself in every facet that influences my life. I took several biblical history classes in college. I know plenty about the Jesus.
@@uncleanunicorn4571 this is not true. I know someone who knows that God hates racism and goes to confession for it regularly and still finds themself being hateful despite knowing God doesn't desire that behavior.
I don't believe in god, but I go to a christian school, and in one of our lessons on religion, a question popped up. The question was "Is it arrogant to believe that there is only one true religion?" Majority of the answers from my class was "no it isn't because Christianity is the only real one" Are they even hearing themselves?????
No. Christian strive to uphold to be close to God but there is a flaw. We strive in whatever ways but all come short on achieving it. That's why Jesus said there is only 1 way. Whether one is Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Orthodox, Baptist, and etc, all fail because we all have sins. The Jews fail so many times is a perfect example. Even the 12 Disciples and the Roman Catholic fail. "Do not commit murder." The 12 Disciples fail because there were in fighting between them. They even hunt down their fellow brothers to Eithopia. The Roman Catholic were not better as well. I remembered my Pastor said that, his denomination, can have flaws but again stated only 1 way to Heaven. So my answer to your question is NO because we are all sinners. No matter what Christianity denomination you are in, it still flawed.
It's just a saying. Aphorisms don't win arguments. They make people who already think like you nod their heads and go "oh wow so true go off king" and they make people who already think unlike you to shake their heads and scoff at your pithy foolishness. It's useless rhetoric.
I hope your spiritual journey is successful and I like to research religions. Can you give me some information about Buddhism, like its orgins its rules, etc. Since I used a translation, there may be errors in the text.
@ismailacu6048 of course! Buddhism is: -Founded in Nepal by siddartha Gautama (the Buddha) -acknowledges that life is suffering, and that desire is the root of suffering. -the knowledge of Buddhism is kept in the sutras (“holy book” like scriptures.) -is popular in east Asia and Southeast Asia. -2 main branches of Buddhism, Mahayana and therevada
@@justanartist23 Thank you, since I like to research religions and Buddhism is next, it was good to get a little information from someone. Who belives Have a nice day.
When I first heard this argument, my immediate follow-up question was "...which men's desires?" The desires of the slavers, who's ownership of slaves is biblically sanctioned? The household patriarchs who lord over their women? The priesthood class who founded and continue to govern the church? I dunno, looks like those men are sitting pretty under the Christian system to me...
I think it refers to the whole 10 commandments. The ones about not un-aliving people, not taking stuff, not betraying your spouse. Because, obviously, only Christians would never do that. All those things are perfectly legal anywhere else in the world. Oh wait... And frankly, the Christian Apologist viewpoint of "if not for Christianity, we'd have no reason to not un-alive each other" is more telling of the Apologist's lack of empathy than anything else.
@@lyravain6304 lmao true almost every fucking culture hated unnecessary violence to the in group unless it was part of some ritual and even then that wasn’t common
you may be a little confused, are you talking about men meaning Males or man meaning the human race? because the human race is often referred to as man in the bible.
@@natedinoffria1609 The bible is also deeply misogynistic, so as far as the people who wrote it were concerned, "man" and men were one and the same thing. Women were less than in their eyes, not the same class of being. Many men and even women still unconsciously or even consciously hold this view today.
@natedinoffria1609 but the bible itself specifically often validates and legislates the desires of males. Especially when it comes to wealth, treatment of women, warfare, property ownership, wish for immortality etc.
They don't go against the desires of the rich man who either enforces them or uses legal loopholes to evade them meaning only the working class loses (opinion on the internet real?!?!)
that one doesn't work as well because offering a portion of your money to fund important things like the police or school or roads is in tune with most men's desire
As a history student, questioning that christianity is man made is completely batshit crazy to me, because christianity did not exist for more than half of human history. Like. The thing appeared at some point. Because people created it. And the current form of it that you know today is a result of a lot of historical events that happened even later than that. Events that shaped christianity almost exclusively through politics edit: i'm never leaving a comment on a video about religion again
Christianity came from Judaism soon after Jesus came to Earth. Jesus himself was a Jew. Christianity not existing for a large portion of history would be a bigger problem if it did not come from another religion that worships the same God.
"More than half of human history" is a rather excessively conservative assessment. Regardless, it only holds from an atheist's perspective as Christians believe that the arrival of Jesus and the resulting introduction of formal Christianity was all part of God's plan.
Well the argument is not that it was already there That is obvious in the Bible they show the first ever Christians, and the first ever Jews The argument is if the stories are made up However historians have agreed that the stories are true for there is historical evidence pointing to it Like Noah’s ark (they found it right where it is written that it was rested)
And coral-encrusted remains of chariots were found in the Red Sea, supporting the story of Moses parting the sea for the Israelites to pass through and causing the waves to crash down on the Pharoah's army when they gave chase.
My favorite type of argument: - Is false - Even if true, wouldn't argue their case - Doesn't matter cause the questioner didn't believe it in the first place And finally: - If I didn't have an answer to it, they wouldn't stop bringing it up. The holy grail of religious thought.
Even the guys who invented already expected this and made verses like "fool is the one who's doesn't believe in god" or something, like they were already anticipating being caught in their lie
@@IllustriousCrocoduck Yeah, that's what Matthew 7:6 is all about "casting pearls before swine." When the writers of the Bible realized there were people who knew they were full of sh*t, they wrote Matthew 7:6 as a way to make believers feel better about themselves by painting the smart skeptics as the dumb ones. Pretty clever, actually - they understood basic human psychology.
@@thebirdguardien.14 why are you typing like that? and obviously the commenter knows, it is to mock the losers who repeat this argument in the first place
It's especially funny because our ideas of good and evil are based on what we consider desirable. So this claim is equivalent to saying the true religion is the one with the most malevolent god.
Mentioning both Buddhism and Jainism is awesome. I am a Buddhist that follows many Jain practices of non-violence towards all living beings. I do not limit myself to only a single religious or secular path as you can find wisdom in all kinds of teachings.
I was raised in a catholic household, and I can confidently say that it doesn't suck. The problem is the people who use their own religion to justify their wrongdoings.
@@audrete6071 So you say, that man only made cool things? Take for example the imperial units. They are man made and not very pracital. Why it is not more like the metric system? Man do made thinks that suck. And I'm pretty sure that the founders of Chistianity thought that they are right, even if some of the rules they declined are against man's desires.
If self help books are man made, then why are they going against mans desires? no lusting, no drinking... why do other religions like Islam Buddhism or Hinduism or philosophies like stoicism follow the same trend? This question fits the other online trend of "Tell me you ... without telling me..." trend. Tell me you are ignorant about other religions and philosophies without telling me that you are ignorant about them.
@@washada the word Yoga comes from the same root as "yoke," with the implication being that one could only achieve true freedom through extreme self-discipline.
I’m especially fascinated by how many literally know nothing about their own religions development the contents of their magical book and the origins of the grand wizard himself.
@@Jcs57I also wish Christians would be more curious about their religion's history, but there is a logical reason for why they aren't more curious. If they knew the history of Christianity, then they wouldn't believe what they do. Look at what happened to Bart Ehrman, for example. It's hard to believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God while knowing that many of the New Testament books are altered, falsely attributed, or straight-up forgeries.
00:17 1. We don't all have same desires. 2. Religion even tho the idea is nice has been exploited by bad people as a source of power and many bad things were done in its name 3. This is just a comparison. i don't mean any hostility by it, Cults consider themselfs religions and most things cults preach are restrictions to its members and doesn't allow them what they "desire", the idea is that the point of the religion or cult is that your average believer isn't gonna be able to do whatever they wish for so that someone higher up can have control. I have nothing against religion these are just some logical answers to that question
I had the displeasure of losing my grandma a few weeks ago. She was a Christian. We reassured her in her final moments with the idea that she was going to see her loved ones soon. I’m not Christian, but while reassuring her and grieving for her I noticed that I really want it to be true. The idea that she is with my grandpa and that she is no longer suffering is very comforting. Meaning Christianity definitely has its desirability.
Well, ain't that a hellish thought, where life and existence are entirely pointless and empty and that you would rather there be nothing than something at the end. It isn't cope to have faith in something outside the physical or even something after death, depending on the view of quantum mechanics you could take. So then, why are you here destroying a person's hope when there's no scientific evidence to disprove something after death? Why not have a little faith and hope in something science doesn't have an answer to? Or is it a way of copeing with there being something?
It is sad, that people dont see the special thing christianity has to offer. They just deny, dont seek the truth. They just argue whilst I found the truth. Btw, religion isn't always right, but god is definetly real, if all of you like it or not.
because in the 1900s when they were popular people didnt know they were bad. now, in 2025, we know they are bad but people are addicted and it makes businesses money
Problem is that Christianity likes to hide that in a Buzzfeed Top Ten list and fill up the first few with stuff like "Obey me!" Then when people complain about the first few bits of that list, it's like "You don't like the list? You don't like the later part of the list!? What's wrong with you!?"
@@RoderickEtheria okay? You can't say you haven't done something bad ONCE in your life, everyone has, everyone will, and, aroace people can be lustful as well, IDK where you got that from
@hosemad69 But the argument that it goes against natural desires, when many of the things it preaches are actually supporting the natural desires of at least certain portions of society doesn't support its argument.
I hate social media for exactly this reason: A person can pose a thoughtless question or statement to millions that obviously invites debate and demands correction, and the people having to respond to it to debunk, correct or counter the argument are then driving engagement and cause it to be promoted in the algorithm with comments and views - when a mindless concept should be just as mindlessly ignored.
Keep the dislike ratio up, regardless of comments, if the video has a lot of dislikes, then the algorithm will not show it to a lot of people, regardless of the comments. A german dashcam channel had testet it out, with telling his viewers to dislike a video at the start of the video. Was the video with the least amount of views by far of all of his videos and some people even asked, when the next came out, if he made a mistake in the video number, since they haven't seen the disliked one, cause it didn't show in the recommendations. So if people would start to dislike, stupid and bad stuff, it would die down from alone, even if you would comment on it or engage in the comment section. (If it weren't for the personal recommendations, that at some point would not show these videos to you anymore to dislike them... And people who are as stupid as the creator and therefore like it...)
Welcome to your White Knight: Reductionism and Mathematics to the rescue. A formal way of generating infinitely many stupid questions and a formal way of answering/addressing them all at once. If people are not made to feel guilty about breeding and murdering animals for meat, then they should not be made to feel guilty or ashamed about anything. Period.
I actually dont agree. While i recognize some of the downsides, i think the best way to deal with these types of things IS for people to interact with and correct it. While social media does tend to spread misinformation, it also does the opposite. For every mindless concept that is ignored is an equally mindful one that would benefit the whole. The solution to these problems should rarely ever be getting rid of the advancement that caused it. Because we keep doing that and we never go forward as a species. Instead, we should inform the masses on ways to scrutinize the information they see and encourage better critical thinking. We should think of putting things in place to catch and correct misinformation and maybe even combat it ourselves. Thats what i think is the best solution anyways.
Am I the only person who felt free when I realised that my life has no meaning? I don't want my life to have a meaning. Having a life that had a meaning made me miserable. I like that it doesn't matter what I do, that's less pressure being put on me to find a purpose that I might hate in the first place (that was my relationship with God, not having the free will (despite him claiming that I have free will) to be myself and do what I want and not do the things that I hate). I like being able to decide for myself what to do with my life and creating a meaning of my own that I actually like. When I figured out that my life had no meaning, a weight was lifted off of my shoulders. Because my life doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what I do, I can do whatever I want and it doesn't matter, life goes on, the universe will still be the same. I think that's awesome. I don't know if I can speak for everyone, but I can definitely speak for myself. I am not living a life of despair, that is not true at all. I can just exist and that is good enough. Why would I want to go back to having someone else (God) decide for me what my purpose or meaning is just so I can please their ego? Someone who is not even living the life that I am living and is too self-entitled to understand or empathize with the struggles that I experience in my life, especially the struggles that come with pleasing his ego. Why would I want to do that? I don't. I am happy having a meaningless, purposeless life.
Glad you brought up Buddhism. When I heard “Christianity goes against man’s desires more than any other religion” my mind immediately jumped to Buddhism lol
Thus appeasing the fear of death. Was also the first thing I thought when I heard the argument. This is probably one of the strongest appeal to any religion.
@@tschakatschada Atheists have slaughtered more than 110 million people in less than 100 years in the name of atheist religion, making it the most lethal religion in history with islame on a close second
@Jpeace91 well yes but that only shows that one of the biblical commandments goes against desire. The argument relies on lots of teachings fulfilling that, not just the one
@@VivekPatel-ze6jy desire doesnt ALWAYS equal to sex, it can be gluttony (eating stuff like candies and chocolate) or gambling besides, sex is a gift from god. MISUSING it (you know, rape and all of that stuff) is where it becomes a sin
As an atheist, when someone says Jesus loves you, I take it as a compliment, because I know that it’s one of the nicest things for a Christian to say but I always laugh inside because it’s kinda funny to imagine if I walked up to you and said Pablo the glass/concrete eating man loves you. Like okay, I don’t know if Pablo is real, or if he did any of those things, but if he turns out to be real somehow and the gastrointestinal track of Pablo can take that shit then I guess I’m happy he loves me????
Because you need to read the Bible because it answers this exact question I will answer it for you though the requirements to get into heaven are this You need to fully believe in your heart that Jesus is Gods son, and that he was sent down to earth to die for your sins You need to confess that you have sinned And the final one is that you need to try to refrain from sin (it’s that you need to try to avoid sinning throughout your life, but even then everyone will still sin including myself)
@@TheHunkiestCandle if a god like that exist then where did his corpse went? what happened to the cross he crucified on? did the parasites ate him? or did the heaven suddenly float the cross up? if jesus actually existed theres one evident (and smart) way to find out and its to find his body. no ands ifs and buts
@@Jacksatron yeah probably the only nice things christians will say bc other than that they rant about how different this celebrity is because shes lesbian or smth
this is a vast misunderstanding, which in and of itself is understandable and many christians do not understand it either. we are not called by the bible or God to ask for forgiveness… we are called to repent and be better because of forgiveness. and it is stated in scripture that those that do not repent are not forgiven because God would know our heart. so no one can trick him and be like “ah ha! gotcha! i asked for forgiveness so i’m good!” so… youve done exactly what this video is about: make a wildly misinformed remark that is supposed to be a gotcha moment, but any christian that has studied scripture at all would know how to refute that… and we refute that by agreeing with you… ‘christians’ that behave that way are not what christians are supposed to do
@@superduperdonkey911 Which you know because you are the only person alive that knows the one true way to read the bible. Because you're such a special little boy that God personally put on Earth to speak truth, while all those other Christians are just pretenders. Gotcha. It's time to put down the ancient book and wake up in reality dude. Universes cannot be spoken into existence, and people don't walk on water. These are bullshit tales you've been told to believe in, and that harms millions of people every day.
I'd argue religion actually satisfies two of the biggest human desires. It assuages the fear of death, and it gives a reason for suffering. Many go one step further, and promise divine retribution against unpunished evildoers. I'd also argue that there are cognitive/rational explanations for asceticism beyond costly signaling. Some restrictions might have been proto-health measures, some might have been ways to maintain power structures (limiting women's freedom, punishing the 'greed' of lower classes), and some might have been consciously adopting behaviors in opposition to an enemy's culture
With the action of "preying" it also gives you a feeling of power when you have none (thoughts and prayers) or makes it easier for you to not act in the real world.
It also fulfills peoples' desires to feel like their lives have a "higher purpose", a desire that is startlingly common place and it also fuels a superiority complex, something else that is all too common in people.
@@burningtheevidence8038first its called praying not preying (preying is hunting) Second how is talking to God a show of superiority (while some do only pray just to show other Christians they pray that’s not the point of it) praying is how you can ask things of God, thank God for what he has given you, and to ask for guidance from him If you feel offended by people praying just ignore them or you could pray even harder than them to truly show your superiority
I'd say those wannabe influencers aren't even making an argument. They're pandering to people who already believe, hoping for engagement, wishing Tik Tok will make them viral and they can get paid.
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Matthew 6:5 I'll see myself out.
of course they are, they're doing it to gain views and followers, they're doing it to attack their enemies and to make their followers feel good about themselves they're not trying to "save souls"
I've seen this a lot with people who are in Evangelical orbits. "Desires" are just all the things that they take to be bad. I remember talking to my sister in law and she claimed that without her faith she would probably be neglectful of her daughter because what she desired was to be independent in certain ways. I literally had to point out that the very fact that she was worried and knew that she would feel guilty if she neglected her child meant that she also desired to be a good mother to her daughter. It's that brainwashing: "Everything I want is evil cuz I'm a sinful, depraved creature." People are literally taught to discount their most noble impulses and attribute them to God.
The groundworks are simple: Everything good gets accredited to god, everything bad is one's own fault. Making people believe that they're evil and depraved from the get-go (but the god who created them to be that way is obviously perfect and would never make a mistake, huh?). It's horrendously toxic.
@@DundG Ever since she had her daughter she's been thinking more critically about all the Orthodox Presbyterian stuff she was raised with. She received the comment well. She's still going to church and all that but has since said some things about doctrines that she will not be teaching to her daughter.
I agree. You're playing with a game of first and second order beliefs. The first order belief is "I want to be neglectful of my daughter to have more free time", and the second order belief disapproves of the first order belief, saying "But I won't do that because I want to be a good mom to my daughter first and foremost."
Man what's worst.. is that religious people basically admit they are all Psycho that don't go around killing others just because they have faith.. How scary is that? XD what about self restraint and fukking respect for others without the fear of being sent to hell? Just like.. being a decent human being without gaining something or without a reason? I don't get how these people are so stupid i swear. In their mind, im not religious, so if i help somebody what happened? how do they explain that? do their brain just crash?
The "questions" are rhetorical, in the sense that they aren't actually putting them out there in the hopes an atheist will respond. These types of posts are to spread around to other like-minded believers, to reassure themselves in their faith and that unbelievers are stupid and confused.
@jennifersmith4864 idk, maybe because the universe was created with the big bang and there's no higher source (like any form of god) and people only believe religions so they can blame someone else for their faults or can pretend everything will be better if they have faint instead of actually doing something for themselves.
How imagine Christian “gotcha” questions gain popularity: Christian person: here’s a question no atheist can answer! Same person: *cannot answer the question themselves and assumes-without checking-that no one else can*
These aren’t “gotcha” questions They are people making bold claims, and having the claims tested The creator of this channel purposely picks the ones that are the most bold due to them being the easiest to respond to, and it causes people to talk in the comments The guy who creates these videos is smart he has the Christians try to save the atheists while the atheists laugh at the claims that the Christian made in the video There are actual claims that atheists can’t answer like why would multiple people be brutally murdered for something they know is false when they could just say it was false (none of them did that, and not once in the gospels does it ever contradict each other, and they even add context to the other gospels stories) Even though I am doing the exact opposite of what I am about to say I would say it should be done Don’t comment on his stuff, don’t like it, and don’t respond because all that does is put money in his wallet.
@@TheHunkiestCandle "There are actual claims that atheists can’t answer like why would multiple people be brutally murdered for something they know is false when they could just say it was false (none of them did that, and not once in the gospels does it ever contradict each other, and they even add context to the other gospels stories)" we don't believe in the bible's authenticity and truth. The first written telling of the story was *decades* after it happened.
True, although I see it more often from atheists trying to "gotcha" at Christians with silliness like mixed fabrics, shellfish, and claiming that the Bible promotes rape and slavery. It's a problem both sides have when they're more interest in scoring points for "likes" and publicity rather than engaging in substantive debate.
@@stanley9868That would have the opposite effect on me. "But what if you're wrong and god does exist?" "Well, considering the state of the world and people in general, I think it's safe to conclude that if god does exist then they're an asshole. So I wouldn't pray to them anyways."
"Christianity gives a reward, a purpose for being a better man. The religion was built around man's desire to be better despite flaws, therefore it is not against man's desire, but for it." -An Atheist
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Well I'm an atheist and I certainly would. Although not everyone is the same of course. Sorry if I have offended you, it was meant to be a little joke. If you wish i can delete it :)
I don't know a single atheist who would be confounded by this simple question. The question assumes Christianity uniquely constrains human desires, when in fact it reflects very human impulses - the desire for control, certainty, and power. Those who crafted religious doctrine weren't suppressing human nature; they were exploiting it by creating a system where a privileged few could claim divine authority to govern the many. The restrictions placed on common people's desires conveniently exempted or were routinely ignored by religious authorities themselves. One need only look at the wealth of medieval churches or the behavior of televangelists to see that Christianity has often served human desires quite well - just not everyone's equally.
Imagine claiming Bertrand Russell has less will to live because of his atheism and then showing his lifetime of 97 years 💀. Apologist did not prove his point
if anything atheists would have more reason to live longer lives, because you know, the endless nothingness after death? they seriously have no logic lmao
Honestly, if anybody wants a short and pithy response to this supposedly-difficult question, it's actually pretty easy. Why would a man-made religion be against man's desires? The simple answer is the old "opiate of the masses" explanation. Rich and powerful men will push religion on the populations they control in order to preserve the power structures that keep them at the top. They tell you that you must be pious and humble and virtuous, while they themselves will be none of those things. There you go, question defeated.
Nope. Theists fear that they will be judged to be not good enough and then end up in hell. That is their deepest fear so they go overboard with their faith so that they will be "good enough". I know, I was one of them.
@@feonor26 We are talking about two different levels of motivation here: on the one hand, fear of going to Hell, but on the other, fear of oblivion, of nothingness. One is a conscious, known motivator and is what the bible tells people will happen if they are "bad" ; the other is the deeper primeval collective subconscious motivation for creating religion in the first place, and would rarely be admited to by believers because it essentially questions the foundation of their beliefs. i.e. Why do you go to church? A. to get spiritual and moral guidance so I can navigate my immortal soul down the path of righteious and gain a seat in paradise (fear of hell) B. because deep down I fear that there really IS nothing in the afterlife, so I comfort myself in the hope that this thing called "religion" is true and I will hopefully be immortal. (fear of oblivion, or, fear that all this religion stuff is fake). Which answer do you think the devoted will give?
It feels like they’re trying to defend a toxic relationship. ‘The worse conditions I have to live in the more likely he is real and loves me right?’ Why does everyone assume god would be good?
The idea of an evil god, if a god even exists, is much more likely IMO. All you have to do is read the bible, assume that the god depicted within is all-knowing as Christians are required to believe, and make the conclusion that the god of the Christian bible is quite evil.
It's written he is good. That's it... And also there's no reason to love an evil god, or else you do it out of fear which is actually what happens to some people.
According to the bible, god is the undisputed champion of killing humans. He beats satan's body count by millions of people. Actions speak way louder than text, god is obviously the opposite of good.
@@planetary-rendez-vous Is it written? The OT paints a picture of a genocidal maniac and the NT of a maniac who has his own son killed; there’s nothing loving about those things. It’s all “love me or else”.
@@kellydalstok8900 Actually I don't know. I assume. In the Bible there's all this talk of love in the NT and sacrifice. You would assume god is all good from there I guess.
@@DundG its a very reasonable answer however it is harder to prove and paints Christianity in a much more negative light, which is probably why it was avoided in the video. While somewhat obvious(in the same way government/laws are control mechanisms) it can be a poor argument to make because it will appeal to people who already look down on Christianity but will make those who respect it feel attacked and defensive and less likely to listen to the rest of your arguments.
It doesn't go against them at all. People desire to transcend death, abrogate responsibility, clear their consciences without working to right wrongs they have done, presume superiority over others, externalize their faults, be loved and accepted, know that the people they think are wicked will suffer, shed their own pain and suffering, and a laundry list of other things, all of which religion promises/allows.
In Denmark there’s this thing called “jante-loven” (jante’s law). It basically says stay humble and don’t pretend you’re better than others. It’s obviously an unwritten rule but a lot of Dane’s stick to it to at least some extent. So does the fact that Dane’s came up with this social norm, which goes against the most basic human need; flexing, balling and having swag, make the Dane’s Devine?
All religions evolved from homo sapiens' desire to understand and control the world around them. Hence, why there are rules to quash your desires. It gives them control and they don't have to understand others' differences. They can just label them as evil.
Back in the past when we didn't know why something happened we would blame it on a god. Like God got mad at my friend and made a lightning bolt hit his hut. But now we know why most things happen and it's not God taking revenge.
@@a9ball1Yea, I think it all initially started as an unknowable force, that was just a happenstance, but as a intelligent social species we start giving things names and associations, believing in a God is a very historical human thing to do, but it doesn't make it the truth is what people don't get.
"I did horrible things to childern, stole from the needy, and violently attacked those who don't think the way I do." "Do you say sorry?" "I sure did." "Ok. you're cool." Talk about man's desires!
@@purp4168 Hey, you said being an atheist means you DON'T apologize. No offense but why be a hypocrite now & do it cuz it's polite? Who are you trying to be polite for?
@@qstionblomens6138, sacrifice was convenient way to get rid of children, war captives or means for population control or wealth extortion (if all sacrifice victim possessions were stolen/taken by temple) and also intimidation tactic
I'm an Atheist and in college I constantly met creationist, usually all Christians with a few Muslims here and there... One thing you notice about talking to these people is that they generally have the same set of arguments just remixed with different words. This is not a surprise entirely because after all it IS a script that they're being fed, just reedited by someone else. I could type out a super long comment that would get lost in a sea of comments going point by point, but the thing is, Christians AREN'T interested in a real solid debate in which at the end hands are shook and humility is from both sides... No no no, they want to have the attention on them, they've practiced their orator skills, draw a huge crows (and let's be honest, they do focus on the attention of the dumb because it's easy to convince them) and THEN rapid fire hit you with "gotcha!" questions and then storm off stage OR never allow proper time for a retort and especially NEVER listen to presented real world evidence, because that doesn't fit their narrative. Here's the crux of what I'm talking about though... What deeply bothers me is that, as an Atheist, it's not that I'm walking around life constantly moping about being sad and depressed because I am what I am... No, I'm sad because I look at this world as it is, uncaring and usually cruel to life, and see how GREAT humans could have made it for ourselves... But instead of doing that we decided the most important thing to do is imitate nature and just be wildly cruel to one another. Unlike how Christians tend to say they had a "sudden" revelation and "god spoke to me!" (which ironically if you ever try to claim the same to them, they dismiss you because your god talk didn't include all the hate and prejudice that their god talk did) for me it's been not revelations, but a series of realisations about life that have just continually reinforced in me of, "wow, there really isn't anything out here ever coming to save us from ourselves, we are wildly alone in this universe." On top of this I always love pointing out to theists that, for one, statically speaking Christians (I'm speaking about American Christians) tend to have far higher rates of crime, sexual assault, rapes, murder, violence, addiction problems, any and all things related to CP so on and so on... Very rarely if ever do you hear an Atheist, especially an outspoken one, being busted again for grooming some young girl.... It's ALWAYS someone who clings on to their outside view of "faith" and then a week later ends up on reddit / pastorarrested (seriously it's updated daily). Also, Christians continually claim to always be holier and happier than you. But when you boil it down, and I've personally met many people like this, they are just one bad day away from shooting indiscriminately into public or just going out and raping whoever..... Why would I say this? Well, entirely because they always seem to want to tell you horror stories of life prior to "being saved" and I gotta say the scripts are always the same... It's always someone saying they had so much money, had sex partners, did drugs and THEN they always say, "oh my life was a mess, Jesus saved me!" -- As someone who doesn't believe in an afterlife, as long as all of that was legal and consensual, I'm like, "why in the fuck did you leave that then? That sounds fantastic!" --- But the scary part is that, basically, they're imaginary sky-daddy is the ONLY reason they aren't just going out, right now -- like RIGHT NOW --- and just committing insane crimes non-stop. The reason they project these ideas that Atheists would do this is because that's THEIR internal desires coming out. They cannot understand that there are a huge number of people that do NOT just want to commit atrocities all god damn day. It's the age old saying (by this point) remember, "every accusation is a confession".
The answer is very simple: Because it's easier to control people when you make them feel guilty and in need of redemption by your religion. If you tell them "you can freely do whatever you want, you can do no wrong" then they don't need you for anything.
Christianity isn't about control. When the gospels were first written about 2000 years ago, there was no need to control people, because they already had Judaism which controlled the people a lot more than what Christianity does. Christianity is basically Judaism but without so many rules and restrictions (just one: Love), and why would anyone who wants to control cut back on the rules? Christianity only turned into a control thing when catholics took matters into their own hands and starting monetising religion (which the bible clearly speaks against many times)
Christianity isn't about control. When the gospels were first written about 2000 years ago, there was no need to control people, because they already had Judaism which controlled the people a lot more than what Christianity does. Christianity is basically Judaism but without so many rules and restrictions (just one: Love), and why would anyone who wants to control cut back on the rules? Christianity only turned into a control thing when catholics took matters into their own hands and starting monetising religion (which the bible clearly speaks against many times)
I was about to type this up, you are spot on! It’s as simple as that, I’m surprised how this argument out of all the arguments against religion seemed to be unanswerable one. 😂
Also knowing their secrets gives you power over them being afraid how will it affect them, in actual cults snitching and knowing things about common members is one of the tools of control. Jesuits promoted snitching and physical punishment in their schools
Being sober is a christian thing? As a Belgian this feels weird, since our greatest Beers are made by monks in monasteries and are even seen as cultural heritage.
There is a very simple answer to this question. "It went against the COMMON MAN's desires". Religion has been used as a tool of control for the lower classes for a very long time. Those with power and knowledge can safely ignore the teachings of a religion. Those of the lower classes cannot......Additionally it benefits those in power to have the masses forgo their desires baser desires and work for a "common good". And while this can start out good, it does not take long for it to be shifted into control and dominance.
Tecnically religion its a thing that would have involved every single man and woman without looking at the status its not fault of the religion itself if humanity is trash
@@massimilianoreali4398 That's a pretty fragile position, because it doesn't directly rely on anything else that's been established in this context. But it does hint at some of the other motivations for "religion". That's a broad and deep field which kind of gets swept over in discussions like the one from this video. There's a post below about Bentham's opinion on asceticism, which I think underlines the desire to kind of dismiss the whole value system that creates ascetic practices amongst some here. Humanity's fundamental problem is its tension between animalistic survival and its potential to something more complex and sophisticated than it sees in other species.
@@weatheranddarkness to what position are you referring the fact that religion was meant for every single person without counting status or the fact that some religious principles are good?
I think what a lot of people forget is that these religions are old, really old. There's knowledge we take for granted today that wasn't even conceptualized back then. An example of this is Sexually Transmitted Infections. If you know nothing about viral and bacterial infections, but you know about good and bad and this is definitely one of the bad things then it stands to reason that you would believe your infection is the work of the devil. And, as you live in the ancient past, the best thing you can do to prevent the infections from happening is to refrain from sex altogether.
Absolutely gold. This is exactly like when they created God's like Zesus to explain stuff like lightning because at the time they didn't know what the heck that was.
My immediate thought when I heard this premise was, “alright. Give me a list of what you think are desires of man.” -The desire to be a part of a group or tribe (the desire for numbers). -The desire for protection. -The desire to lead the pack, to be an authority (civil, moral, or other) -The desire to be lead (by an authority or otherwise) Yeah, I’d say the premise that man’s desires are inherently antithetical to Christianity is a false one.
Thank you, i was about to write some of these as i felt them missing in the video. Especially the aspect of perceived safety that comes from restrictions is an important part of any group dynamic as safety is often inherently understood as an antithesis of freedom.
It also kind of reminds me of how animals are organized socially, especially our closest relatives, and it feels a lot like their society, just focused on spirituality and with some sort of morality that's actually not been there for a veryyy long time.
Religion also serves the prevention of chaos. Especially back during the very uncivilized days with no real surveylance or dna testing to pfove crimes as essily. The fear of hell can stop crimes. Can make people act in ways helping the community in hopes to reach heaven. Empowers the church/cult in charge. And enriches its members. So it absolutely makes sense a manmade religion can be against all of mankinds basic instincts. Thats how laws work. And religion served as law as well. And thosr in charge get rich and very much endulge in desire.
I think that the desire of a handful of sociopaths to dominate people played an important part in the emergence of organized religion. Just look at present day power hungry mega pastors.
My Grandfather was very catholic He also wasn’t an idiot and didn’t try to force his beliefs onto me (or others). Sure we sometimes went to christmas mass, but that was because when you love someone you sometimes do thing *they* like. It made my grandpa happy so it made us happy. I don’t reject the possibility of a god, but I firmly reject the way humans have built almost all religions… for control and power more than for an actual belief. It also helps that by grandfather quite liked philosophy and science (he did NOT believe in creationism, or other BS people preach out of ignorance). Only time my grandfather tried to “convince” me to believe in god was when we talked about Pascal’s wager… because it kind of made sense (that’s why I don’t just plainly reject god since I can’t prove for or against anyway)
im doubting the authenticity of the story given your grandfather didnt use a very compelling argument, yet you said he was "into philosophy", but nonetheless its certainly possible to prove a deity. if youre at all familiar with epistemology and metaphysics then you can see why, just read the summa.
Even if there is a god it is the human centric view that religions take which robs them of validity in the modern era. When humanity eventually dies, or evolved into something new, the nature that god created will continue without issue.
I mean, if we tried to untangle the downright radioactive mess of psychosexual issues deeply embedded in most religions but Christianity specifically we'd be there for ages.
An additional point that could be raised is that, in practice, believers tend to apply the restrictions to other people more than to themselves. In that sense, such restrictions are a claim to power over those around you. The restrictions they apply to themselves are the restrictions they are comfortable with. And let's not overlook the fact that if a believer _breaks_ any of those restrictions, a simple prayer of contrition is sufficient to restore themselves to a state of forgiveness--while still insisting that these restrictions are binding on others. Such a self-serving religious system is very much consistent with a human origin.
The smugness is the worst part about the whole situation here. It's so sad and irritating to see that these people truly think they found an argument which has no answer and is impossible to debunk. As an atheist arguing against these views it's often extremely hard to keep my irritation out of the conversation, but it is nesseary if we're striving to achieve any progress. Awesome video Drew!
That bit was particularly potent with the actual audio cut out. Not that the copyrighted music would actually distract from how dumb it is to just stand behind a caption and make a series of comically fake expressions like a clown practicing their faces.
1 Timothy 4: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
I swear these people remind of when I was a kid, a little too old to believe in Santa, trying to sooth my belief with any lame excuse I could come up with. Always so sad to me when adults do this.
They flood their thoughts with these reflections because they don't want to deal with their reality, the reality of their own suffering and that of people around them. It distracts them from confronting evil and defending themselves from those who really harm or harmed them. It gives them something other than their pain to think about.
@@massimilianoreali4398 It's one of many _possible_ reasons people believe in God. One is ABSOLUTELY a desire to _not_ face reality. You'd have to be plain stupid to fail to see that.
@@ashkebora7262 generalization is howewer a bad thing overly in discussions of topic where generalization is heavily used for showing the superiority of one of the two sides P.S:i do not refere to this comment section
It is very striking how profoundly these arguments are shaped by Western thought/the Western world. Also completely ignored is the fact that the term "man" can by no logical, or reasonable, argument be considered a single entity, and what may be a harsh restriction of desire for one person is already a regular practice for another, and therefore the entire argument explored in the video does not apply to the latter.
This content isn't directed at us. It's directed at themselves. They ask themselves the question, find they have no answer, and assume that's proof of their position. Then the first time one of them foolishly asks one of us and we immediately answer they find themselves confused.
They're asking these questions precisely because they don't want answers. As soon as an answer is provided, they're frustrated and annoyed that we didn't play along with their not answering game.
Let's save a step and admit they don't even want to hear our response. They think they made a "gotchya!" moment, and are content with it ending there, in their false sense of satisfaction. They don't really care what we have to say in rebuttal.
@@Chocomunchie this is why I like to give them a choice before I respond. "Good question. Now do you actually want to hear the answer? Or do you just want to assume it can't be answered so you can make a rhetorical point?" I like the idea of giving them that space, where they either have to admit that they aren't actually having a conversation, or else they have to invite the answer. Getting them to actually invite an answer is a good step towards getting them to actually think (at least a little bit) about what you say
The fact that there are people who will argue in bad faith is not a good reason to never argue, nor to automatically assume that your debate partner is incapable of arguing in good faith.
The most frustrating one: "hOw dO U hAvE MorALiTy wItHoUt gOd" TAKE AN INTRO TO PHILOSOPHY CLASS Dozens and dozens of morality systems that don't use the bible!
Recently I met a nice variation on this theme. Apologist: "If not from God, where does logic come from?" Me: "Logic is manmade - you don't even know to ask the right questions " *) Apolologist: "If logic is manmade I can make my own logic that rejects what you assert." Me: "That's exactly what apologists like you have been doing on internet last quarter of a century." The right question is "How do you ground logic (and morals) without God?" Atheists can answer that one too, but at least they can't use the answers to refute theism.
I have one more frustrating that is a follow-up to "you need god to be moral". The response I've gotten when I say I don't need a higher power to tell me not to kill or steal or do harm to others: I am being inspired by God to have those morals, even if I don't think I am. I may as well tell them that I'm a Last-Thursdayist (the universe and everything in it, including our memories, was snapped into existence last Thursday) and there's nothing anyone can say to refute that.
despite all the debate- one of the biggest misunderstandings about Christianity is that we're Christians so that we could supposedly get stuff from God. If you ask any true Christian-every single one would agree that Christianity is about faith (and good works) and how much you could lose. Every true Christian would die for their faith no doubt about it.
Q: "If Christianity is man-made, then why does Christianity go against common sense, intelligence, reality, science, humanity, humulity, compassion, fairness, kindness, and mercy?" A: "Because Christianity is man-made."
Yes! Or the Christian deity is just evil. But thankfully there is no evidence for its existence, yet a lot of evidence for the whole thing to be made up by humans. Phew.
I think christianity goes with intelligence, reality, science, humanity, etc. Btw: You need moral standards for society and therefore you need christianity
Can you tell me what Christianity's moral standards exactly is? For example, does it forbid a person to attempt to murder their innocent child? And what if God wants them to do it?
@@fritztom9918you're telling me that a book which says: -Insects have 4 legs -Whales are fish -Humans can be made directly from soil -Snakes can talk -The universe was made in a week -You need to invite your attackers to beat you up more -Women who defend their husbands need their arm cut off Goes with logic? Especially when the data collected from observation, reflection and experimentation goes against all that? Yeah, no. Also: Christianity isn't the only moral framework in existence. Aside from those of every other religion, most atheists follow humanism, which prioritises humans above any supernatural matters. The morality stems from evolution of social traits and states that we should act with reason and empathy, consider the consequences of out actions and the likely impact on other people and animals.
They think they have such a "gotcha" question but they mostly argue against average people who happen to be atheist instead of people who have deducated themselves to theological discussions.
man.. i tell you, even idiots can answer that question, you don't need to be a theologist.. It goes against men desire exactly for the purpose to look convincing. Religions are a weapon of mass mind control.. they have to be convincing otherwise nobody would follow it.. Also its a stupid question in itself as the guy in the video show, because there are many things that go against man desire, and they are not all magically divine because of it..
If religions aren't man made, why is there more than one? If there is one deity and it created these religions, why did it create more than one? Make that make sense.
Simple answer, "Why do you follow your religion?" if the answer is: "It gives me hope/meaning/belonging" then boom, desire fulfilled, answered their own question. "It doesn't go against all mans desires".
As a question, being overly smug goes against man’s desires for autonomy when you impose beliefs onto people, which means smugness is divine, or smugness comes from some need to defeat enemies and to feel morally superior to hated foes, which means smugness is of man’s origin. Does this mean all behaviors, going towards some man’s desires and denying others, prove all humans are semi-divine /s
The core of Christianity is "Be a christian or burn in eternal hellfire, but if you DO become christian you'll be in heaven forever". This is the most blatant, most extreme possible example you could even CONCEIVE of for a religion to appeal to mans desires. "You dont want to burn in hell for ever? You desire eternal life in Heaven filled with bliss dont you?" That is the very core of the religion, and it appeals for humans desire to avoid pain and also the desire to be in bliss and never die, and its stated in the most extreme way you could imagine. everything else is the things you are forced to do in order to get your desired outcome that it has laid out for you.
Heck, even the version that actually takes into account how people who are into Christianity want it to be read is more like “God is an infinite grounding, so if you have sinned you can repent, not do it again, and still be a good person”. This is still an appeal for the desire to “be a good person”, so it is still very much aligned with man’s desires.
I feel like the posts aren't made looking for an answer, but to feel the satisfaction of giving a smug smile at the camera with no one yet refuting you. A sort of shadow boxing with an ego trip built into it because you're smirking, unchallenged at the moment, and can count on thousands of people who will see your confident smirk, feel it reinforces *their* confident smirk, giving you a thumbs up. Good smirkings all around.
They make them for other believers, in a self-reinforcing pattern. This is necessary, because without constant reinforcement, a lot of religious beliefs begin to collapse over time.
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The most frustrating one: "hOw dO U hAvE MorALiTy wItHoUt gOd"
TAKE AN INTRO TO PHILOSOPHY CLASS
Dozens and dozens of morality systems that don't use the bible!
Seriously though this has such an obvious answer: "Life is full of compromises, going against what you want for other people builds community"
I don't believe anyone is atheist. The fact they had to have believed in God at one time all they're doing is questioning. That would be agnostic. That's how perfect God's plan is you have to have believed in order to say you don't. So, where is an atheist possibly a satanist.
@@cathyrenick8562 You're the one asserting there's a god, we're just saying we don't agree with your assertion. Please take an intro to philosophy class to learn logic.
@@cathyrenick8562 Because obviously all atheists converted from monotheistic religions like Christianity. /s
But if everything is according to God's plan, then why should you let it bother you that there are non-believers? If that is also part of the plan, then should you believe the God that made people non-believers just to be hated on by "true believers" is good?
-> in libraries you can’t talk
-> people like to talk
-> libraries are divine temples
Well, librarians are goddesses... or gods. Or an orangutan.
@@stylesrjshhh, we don’t talk about the orangutan
@@mrmackinac5266
As long as we don't monkey about with his species.
@@stylesrj The Patrician would consider that a form of suicide.
@@mrmackinac5266 Just remember to address him as Mr. Monkey.
Those tiktokers aren't looking for atheists to see their posts, they're just farming likes from fellow christians
That's really true from all those random "God loves you " comments. They only get positive attention from other christians.
And there is a whole movement behind it to teach the younger generations about Christianity. Most of the popular ones are paid to spread this bs.
@@MicalMical111 God loves you.
@@Hospitaller1099 I'm glad you imagine He does.
Exactly, why else would they be putting such an emphasis on their pious self sacrifice otherwise?
I hate those tiktoks so much. Those people look so incredibly cocky considering they are just copy/pasting someone else's idea without any context or input.
But that's is not 99% of TikTok?
If Tik Tok only allows 2 minute videos, you really don't have time to show any work.
@@theboombody"Your work" being scrolling through Reddit, finding a post and copying it?
@@filiperosa7496 it is
@@theboombodyit let you make longer vids for a while now
If sexual activity is man’s desire… does that mean asexuals are divine deities???
As an asexual, I see this as an absolute win 😂
This is the funniest thing ive seen in such a long time
@@morganwoods8929wtf is asexual? You can reproduce by yourself?
@@oldestdreamdokjaYou don't experience sexual attraction.
@@dizzylilthing oh.. I thought I was like amoeba type
What could be more aligned with "Man's Desires" than being able to ask a silent third party for forgiveness to absolve themselves from all guilt?
...and consequently live forever. That's the big one they really want, because they're super duper special.
As well as to bring retributive justice towards all of one's enemies.
Yep. It's hilarious because you KNOW that when they say "man's desires" they are only thinking of sex, because they have the understanding of a choirboy fresh out of Sunday School about the topic.
The divine permission to lord over your family and the natural world.
Well I belive Jesus said that one should resolve their problems on earth before asking god for forgivness, I belive it was in the Matheus evangelium. Although as this was inconvinient and a good idea it appears to not be too prominent in modern Christianity
If all movies are made by humans, how come some of them are bad? Man wouldn't make a movie that man doesn't want to watch.
Morbis is devine because people don't desire it.
but what about those that are so bad they are good ?
@@tma2001 You're tearing me apart, Lisa!
Some???My. YOU, are generous!
*_Oh, hi Mark!_*
If "do not murder" and "do not commit adultery" go against your "human desires", it may be time for serious introspektion
"If you need the threat of eternal torture to be a good person, you aren't a good person."
@@bionicleguy32well said. Morals should not be based upon fear
@@Messmer_da_Impaler Without God, your morals are based on fear. Which proves that man has a sinful nature. If you have God, then your morals are based on God, and not fear. You are unwittingly proving the Christian stance. And that's without going down the rabbit hole of where morals come from in the first place.
I guess common sense isn't your strong suit.
@@Hospitaller1099is what i say to anyone who makes the argument "if christianity is a man made religion then why does it go against mans desires"
1:58 “Christianity goes against man’s desires more than any other religion.” That’s a lovely argument. However, there’s this thing called Buddhism that you may find interesting. And the Buddha himself said he was not inspired by any god whatsoever.
It’s interesting because that’s one of the core values of Buddhism.“Don‘t follow earthly desires” and all that.
"If laws are man-made, why is it illegal to do drugs?"
If laws are man made why is illegal to not wear a seatbelt?
This is an incredibly good response to such a silly question.
This one's really good
Literally what I thought. "If law is man-made, why does it go against our desire to kill each other?"
@@elih6087 problem is, this kind of christianity does see law as somehow bestowed by god, unless they can blame a catholic/atheist/activist_judge for 'corrupting' the law.
"I'm a Christian so that means I have to be humble. Let me make a narcissistic tiktok." The irony amongst Christians never fails to disappoint.
Where is a true Christian today? 1John3:23 sums up Christianity. Bigotry and idolatry killed Christianity. 2Thess2:11 is here. The church is fallen. Trump is lawless. They believe THE LIE! Jesus is coming soon for this born-again gay stoner Jew but all hateful bigots will be left behind to suffer the destruction we've caused our planet. Revelation 11:18 says God will destroy those who destroy the earth. It's all fulfilled.
Nah. One of the unique aspects of Christianity as a religion is their eagerness to spread their beliefs to others. Their messiah instructed them to do exactly that. A Christian can be humble and spread the word without contradicting. That is the way of the entire religion.
It's probably the reason Christianity has been so incredibly prolific. Other religions primarily recruit via birth.
@@BoomerangVillage "Other religions recruit via birth." Oh the arrogance and sense of specialness of Christians never fails to amuse me. 90 percent of Christians are Christians cause they were indoctrinated by their parents. Christianity thrived through indoctrination not recruitment. That's why missionaries going door to door trying to recruit new Christians fail 99 percent of the time. You can't brainwash those that haven't been indoctrinated, only the mentally vulnerable ones. That's why Christians goes for the kids while their brains are still being programmed.
@@BoomerangVillage Nah. Look at their smug faces. They are narcissistic to the core.
A Christian can be humble and spread the word without contradicting is the opposite of humble.
don't call those people chirstians, they just sell themselfs as lovers of god because it gets em likes
Counter question. If you need the fear of hell to be a good person. Are you really a good person?
That's a really good question.
@@124-u7m The answer is yes. There are the schools of thoughts where Results are everything. According to this, the fact that you were a good person makes you a good person. Same holds true for the slightly different school of thought where Actions is all that matters (differs in that the result matters less than the action taken itself). Even with the school of thought where Intent is all that matters, what was the _cause_ of said intent is irrelevant. And thus you end up classified as a good person.
Stepping away from those ethical frameworks for a moment, we also have the schools of thoughts classifying humans as a mass of desires and selfishness and even maliciousness. A beast. And that what makes a human civilized - a good person - is the conscious choice to _not_ act on those impulses and desires. Again, the "why" does not really matter, but rather the fact that you made the conscious decision and had the self-control to follow through. Rather, in this philosophy, the more you wanted to do something the better of a person you are when you refrained (so arguably anyone that can be a good person without an imaginary threat of punishment to discipline themselves, is LESS of a good person).
I can go on, but overall I think that I can list more schools of thoughts saying you are a good person, than ones that argue that you are not. The latter are pretty much only ones that considers personhood/humanity/goodness as more of an intrinsic part of someone's nature, rather than their decisions and actions - which admittedly includes pretty much all religions with gods who judge your soul on death.
ps: as for personal opinion, I don't quite agree with any of the above schools of thoughts. I think people are an equation of nature and nurture, and that you don't even need to be human to be good. I think that we all are complex being where to decide whether we are good or not, we need to consider both desires, intent, actions, results, and scope/context. And everything in-between and beyond. Meaning: the answer is relative to your perspective and 2 separate people/groups can come to different answers. Like the quotes goes: "everyone is their own hero"; "the only difference between a hero and a villain, is who wrote the book".
pps: I have no idea if the second one is an actual quote.
being a good person doesn’t automatically get you into heaven jesus specifies this
@@suzumi111 yes well neither does being a shit person while still claiming to be Christian. Or did you forget the part about loving your enemies, praying for them, going the extra mile, and how you literally cannot be forgiven, like at all, if you can't forgive others, and my personal favorite "he turned to those on his left, and he said he gone from me wretched sinners for I do not know thee. They said but Lord did I not spend my entire life life living for you. The Lord answered saying I was homeless and you did not house me, I was naked and you did not clothe me, I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was sick and you did not visit me, I was in prison and you did not minister to me. And they asked him Lord when did we see you homeless, and naked, and hungry, and sick, and in prison and did not minister to you? And he answered saying that which you did not do to even the least of my brother's you did not do to me. Merely claiming Christ isn't enough either. You gotta work at it. So again, COUNTER question. IF YOU NEED A FEAR OF ETERNAL DAMNATION IN HELL to be a good person, are you REALLY a good person?
@@jamielishbrook2384 i pray for everyone i love everyone you shouldn’t stereotype people i’m really sorry if you’ve been hurt by a christian before because it seems like your projecting but i’ll pray for you!
As a Christian with a good ability to think critically, I agree with you here. Most of the loudest Christians trying to make these claims have no idea what they’re talking about.
As someone who grew up firmly entrenched in the church, there's a shockingly high number of Christians who've never actually read the Bible and just take whatever their priest says on face value.
The best part is that some people think that aetheists hate every part of religion, even teachings. It’s not a package deal. I think you should love your neighbor, but I don’t need to think a guy duplicated bread/fish to think that.
A Christian thinking critically is an oxymoron.
As a newley converted Christian, I honestly agree. I am stoked at how many Christians that are trying to prove something they did not even know about. It makes me feel a little down that a lot of people have the gift ready for them to get served, but none take it ( I meant the book of the bible).
@@iajanusI asked a good friend of mine if he believed in the Bible, and he said that he doesn’t truly believe in the stuff in the beginning
I then asked him if he had read the Bible and he said no
I have read the Old Testament, and I agree with all of it in being true(other than Genesis’s beginning that is believed to mostly be figurative)
The constant barrage of "Okay, atheists, what's your answer to THIS!" is exhausting and annoying. We're not the ones making a claim. The burden of proof is not on us.
It's a communal form of gish gallop, bombard people with enough claims, and if even one is missed, then QED God. It didn't even have to be actually missed, just missed by enough to lend false credence to the premise.
@@ericgraham8150
1. Not every atheist actually posits this.
2. Even if you do phrase it that way, then it is a direct response. They made the claim.
@@ericgraham8150 Nope, that's anti-theism. "There is no god."
Atheism is simpler. "There is no evidence for god, and therefore we shouldn't believe in god." It's not the claim that there is definitely no god. It's the equivalent of the following exchange:
Theist: "God exists. I know god. I know god's will!"
Atheist: "Prove it."
Theist: "Something exists, therefore god!"
Atheist: "Nope, try again."
Theist: "Your moral framework cannot be grounded without god."
Atheist: "Nope, fuck off. Try again."
@@ericgraham8150 No, most atheists only reject the claim that there exists a god, since you can't prove a negative, and a claim without evidence can be rejected without evidence. (But then there is of course lots of evidence that makes the existence of a god unlikely, and also lots of evidence that makes the claim of a god not existing plausible.)
Antitheism isn't "there is no god". Antitheism is "god is harmful/false and we should therefore actively try eradicating it or arguing against it".
A subset of atheism is "god doesn't exist and I am certain of that". A minority sure, but it is a flavour of atheism
@@SupachargedGaming
The worst enemy of rhetorical questions is answers
You forget the secret weapon.
_Uhmm, nuh-uh_
Homer: Do *I* know what RHETORICAL means?
@@ErichwanhI don't know...DO you?
From DragonballZ Abridged:
"Everyone goes on and on about the children. I tried leaving them alive, but all they do is grow up or devote their pathetic little lives to revenge. Frankly, I consider killing them a kindness. I could retract that kindness, but who would be the villain then?"
"Y-you."
"That was a rhetorical question."
"And I gave you a rhetorical answer."
@@rr.studiosXavier, is that you?
Christians: our religion is so strict, it says you shouldn't get drunk or have casual sex...
Buddha: Life is suffering
Buddha: Hold my beer.
@@jackabug2475Buddha: I won’t be drinking it anyway.
Wait till you hear about Jains. They cant even kill micro organisms.
@@Someone-ll1rc Bartender: Then why the hell did you even order it?
Casual sex and Drinking are not forbidden in the Bible. Neo-christians, good grief.
Religion is very man made.
"I don't want to die."
**creates heaven**
"I don't want my enemies to be happy."
**creates hell**
More like:
"I don't want my enemies to be happy"
*Creates a series of strict requirements to get into Heaven*
@@stylesrj *including never wearing mixed fabrics and GOUGING OUT YOUR EYE IF YOU LOOK AT A WOMAN IN A SEXUAL MANNER*
Verses: leviticus 19:19 & matthew 5:29, respectfully
Funny thing, in Christianity- the biggest reason for all of the laws, and the biggest point of the scriptures revolves around caring for others
In short, a real Christian who upholds the scriptures wants you and everyone to be saved
@@aldrinthehardworker9816I was about to say this
I pray for everyone that they can find salvation because hell is a punishment I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy
5 Questions Atheists CANNOT answer:
1. If evolution is true, why does Pikachu require a thunder stone to evolve?
2. How me a dog learn to talk?
3. King Kong is a movie and you believe that, don't you?
4. A train leaves New York traveling at 500 miles per hour at 5 pm on Saturday, and uh... is it... does it get there in time?
5. What came first, the xenomorph or the black goo?
Checkmate, Atheists!
1) Because the requirements change with every generation and because of PIkachu's popularity, the devs wanted to make it hard for people to lose that mascot.
2) Because all dogs are good boys!
3) Wait, are you saying it's NOT a documentary or something?
4) Depends if there's someone on the tracks
5) The goo of course. The Engineers were working on all sorts of stuff.
4: Considering the fastest train in the world goes a little over 300 mph, and 500 is over half the speed of sound, and a crash would have the equivalent energy of one thousand and seventy nine sticks of dynamite,
unless that train's destination is a flaming ball after it rips through the tracks and causes a city block to be leveled, probably not
Really enjoyed the fact you asked whether the black goo or the xenomorph came first. Most would say face hugger or xenomorph I imagine
Wow. I bet your mommy is so proud of you.
Does she still wash your face and wipe your arse?
If not who does those things for you?
I'll never believe that you've learned to do them yourself, nope. No way.
There's absolutely no chance that you're intelligent to get your velcro shoes to stay on without help.
Let's talk about how daddy "punishes" you when you mess up.
That's not punishment. He's not trying to correct this behavior.
57.5% of pedophiles are white men
96% of those white men are Christians.
Have you started growing your own victims yet or are you still reliant on the other church members to keep bringing in new victims?
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Have these people even HEARD of Buddhism? The whole point of it is about separating oneself from desire and attachment! Way, way, way more than Christianity does.
I was about to say… ascetic Buddhism goes brrrrrrrrrrrt
i suspect the extent of what they've heard about Buddhism is that it's "diabolical" and a tool of Satan.
Literally. I'm not a Buddhist but shid, psychology and Buddhism are AMAZING together. Transformational. More so than all my other transformations
Yeah, isn't it's entire premise "wanting things is making you miserable so follow the path to get rid of attachment"???? Even believing in higher beings can be considered as attachment in Buddhism, hence why some schools of Buddhism are indifferent about the existance of higher beings, despite believing they exist, it isn't relevant for them.
@@hineraable A generalization and not entirely correct, but yeah. Depending on flavor of Buddism, it can also mean that wanting things will make OTHER people miserable - that in wanting things, especially things that go against the expected flow of the universe, it can be highly disruptive, destructive, and cruel. For example, say there really was an afterlife, one which requires the living to pray or otherwise perform rituals to allow ghosts to pass on into it. Imagine then, that someone you loved died and was a ghost, waiting for you to perform that ritual. You, because you love that person and want to keep them around/don't want to lose them completely, refuse to perform the ritual. The conceit is that this refusal to perform will, ultimately, make you unhappy and potentially drive you to even worse actions. Would you stop someone else from performing that ritual for your loved one, for instance, and if so, what would stopping them entail for you?
This can be easily countered with “if taxes are man made, then why do they go against mans desire to avoid taxation?”
bro thinks hes funny
@@tourdeflores2693 You think you're right
@@tourdeflores2693I hope he thinks he's smart since I think this is the best counterexample I've seen so far
@@mattiamontanari-ym5vu I read "tight"
cough the roman obulus was somewhat bound to religion, you was free to keep your gods but had to pay a higher obulus, it was already back then for a small but very selfish group inacceptable and they still think this was not right (2000 years later they cannot forgive, not even what was 5000 years ago, one day they will extinct caused by their own hate and complain about 'til the very end of time) to cut their rights in the empire, but well romans deal, special right here one right less there, it's a fair deal. if you exclude yourself from society as something special then pay a price for it. it prvents from sour blood in the community.
I’m an atheist. I’m also a natural optimist, fervent humanist, and lover of the earth. I find meaning in simply being alive. I find meaning in helping others and making them smile. I find meaning in the joyful experiences around me. I don’t need a god to tell me that my life is meaningful, because I make meaning for myself.
Me too. My parents are Christian, whenever I try to tell them something they assume I am lazy and want to skip church. Really sucks because my entire family will think of me differently if I tell the truth.
Rebel against the absurd-pilled least based atheist
I love your energy, but I think the main point of Christianity is to learn that Jesus died for us, you might be wondering why- it's for our sins( if you are curious what sins am I talking about, I honestly wish you would read the bible, although It sounds boring, it will give you an amazing knowledge on history
@@Marshalbrake562a true Christian should never treat another person in a negative way. I'm sure if your parents are under the Lord, when you tell then the truth, they will treat you more with care or without trying to make you more upset
@ hey! I was actually raised Christian, went to Christian sleep away camps growing up, I’ve read the Bible (with annotations.) I strive to educate myself in every facet that influences my life. I took several biblical history classes in college. I know plenty about the Jesus.
Susan B Anthony: "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires”
And by now we basically have scientific confirmation of that.
Interesting how god always seems to hate exactly the same people that you hate...
Christianity gives men dominion over their wives, children, non-Christian’s as slaves/servants, and the natural world
This comment needs a ♥
@@uncleanunicorn4571 this is not true. I know someone who knows that God hates racism and goes to confession for it regularly and still finds themself being hateful despite knowing God doesn't desire that behavior.
I don't believe in god, but I go to a christian school, and in one of our lessons on religion, a question popped up. The question was "Is it arrogant to believe that there is only one true religion?"
Majority of the answers from my class was "no it isn't because Christianity is the only real one"
Are they even hearing themselves?????
As a Christian I think this is an interesting and fair question 🙂.
“Is it arrogant to believe that you’re never wrong?”
“No, because I *am* never wrong.”
@@TheManDude that's pretty much the gist of what bro said
@@TheManDudefax
No. Christian strive to uphold to be close to God but there is a flaw. We strive in whatever ways but all come short on achieving it. That's why Jesus said there is only 1 way.
Whether one is Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Orthodox, Baptist, and etc, all fail because we all have sins.
The Jews fail so many times is a perfect example. Even the 12 Disciples and the Roman Catholic fail. "Do not commit murder." The 12 Disciples fail because there were in fighting between them. They even hunt down their fellow brothers to Eithopia. The Roman Catholic were not better as well.
I remembered my Pastor said that, his denomination, can have flaws but again stated only 1 way to Heaven.
So my answer to your question is NO because we are all sinners. No matter what Christianity denomination you are in, it still flawed.
“Man wasn’t made in God’s image, religion was made in Man’s image” is a saying I think applies.
Wow that's deep
... god was made in man's image
It's just a saying. Aphorisms don't win arguments. They make people who already think like you nod their heads and go "oh wow so true go off king" and they make people who already think unlike you to shake their heads and scoff at your pithy foolishness. It's useless rhetoric.
Womp womp
Of course religion was made in man's image, it's made to fit humans. This argument makes as much sense as saying car seats were made in man's image.
“If Christianity is man-made, why does it go against man’s desire?” BRO I’M BUDDHIST AND THAT LOGIC APPLIES TO US😭😭😭🙏🙏
I hope your spiritual journey is successful and I like to research religions. Can you give me some information about Buddhism, like its orgins its rules, etc. Since I used a translation, there may be errors in the text.
@ismailacu6048 of course! Buddhism is:
-Founded in Nepal by siddartha Gautama (the Buddha)
-acknowledges that life is suffering, and that desire is the root of suffering.
-the knowledge of Buddhism is kept in the sutras (“holy book” like scriptures.)
-is popular in east Asia and Southeast Asia.
-2 main branches of Buddhism, Mahayana and therevada
@@justanartist23 Thank you, since I like to research religions and Buddhism is next, it was good to get a little information from someone. Who belives Have a nice day.
@ismailacu604 thank you! I like researching religion as well!
@@ismailacu6048 I dont think buddismcould be called a religion, more like a lifestyle or philosophy
When I first heard this argument, my immediate follow-up question was "...which men's desires?" The desires of the slavers, who's ownership of slaves is biblically sanctioned? The household patriarchs who lord over their women? The priesthood class who founded and continue to govern the church? I dunno, looks like those men are sitting pretty under the Christian system to me...
I think it refers to the whole 10 commandments. The ones about not un-aliving people, not taking stuff, not betraying your spouse.
Because, obviously, only Christians would never do that. All those things are perfectly legal anywhere else in the world. Oh wait...
And frankly, the Christian Apologist viewpoint of "if not for Christianity, we'd have no reason to not un-alive each other" is more telling of the Apologist's lack of empathy than anything else.
@@lyravain6304 lmao true almost every fucking culture hated unnecessary violence to the in group unless it was part of some ritual and even then that wasn’t common
you may be a little confused, are you talking about men meaning Males or man meaning the human race? because the human race is often referred to as man in the bible.
@@natedinoffria1609 The bible is also deeply misogynistic, so as far as the people who wrote it were concerned, "man" and men were one and the same thing. Women were less than in their eyes, not the same class of being. Many men and even women still unconsciously or even consciously hold this view today.
@natedinoffria1609 but the bible itself specifically often validates and legislates the desires of males. Especially when it comes to wealth, treatment of women, warfare, property ownership, wish for immortality etc.
I am vegetarian, I go against my own desires, I am my own god. Cool.
Same!!
Yet another god I don't believe in.
hail silvia
@@YoungerFutharklmao
Do you not desire to be a vegetarian? I think you do, or you wouldn't be one so that's not really a good example.
If taxes are man made, then why do they go against mans desire to keep his money?
The tax collector is keeping that money
They don't go against the desires of the rich man who either enforces them or uses legal loopholes to evade them meaning only the working class loses (opinion on the internet real?!?!)
@@wyleecoyotee4252and the people in power benefit from stopping people from getting power in the same way they did
divine taxation lmao
that one doesn't work as well because offering a portion of your money to fund important things like the police or school or roads is in tune with most men's desire
As a history student, questioning that christianity is man made is completely batshit crazy to me, because christianity did not exist for more than half of human history. Like. The thing appeared at some point. Because people created it. And the current form of it that you know today is a result of a lot of historical events that happened even later than that. Events that shaped christianity almost exclusively through politics
edit: i'm never leaving a comment on a video about religion again
same with muslims who say "Adam the first man was a muslim" . No, there were no muslims before the quran
Christianity came from Judaism soon after Jesus came to Earth. Jesus himself was a Jew. Christianity not existing for a large portion of history would be a bigger problem if it did not come from another religion that worships the same God.
"More than half of human history" is a rather excessively conservative assessment. Regardless, it only holds from an atheist's perspective as Christians believe that the arrival of Jesus and the resulting introduction of formal Christianity was all part of God's plan.
Well the argument is not that it was already there
That is obvious in the Bible they show the first ever Christians, and the first ever Jews
The argument is if the stories are made up
However historians have agreed that the stories are true for there is historical evidence pointing to it
Like Noah’s ark (they found it right where it is written that it was rested)
And coral-encrusted remains of chariots were found in the Red Sea, supporting the story of Moses parting the sea for the Israelites to pass through and causing the waves to crash down on the Pharoah's army when they gave chase.
My favorite type of argument:
- Is false
- Even if true, wouldn't argue their case
- Doesn't matter cause the questioner didn't believe it in the first place
And finally:
- If I didn't have an answer to it, they wouldn't stop bringing it up.
The holy grail of religious thought.
I just think it's uselessly open-ended. 100 people will interpret 100 different ways. Just like scripture. Useless, and thought up by primitives.
Even the guys who invented already expected this and made verses like "fool is the one who's doesn't believe in god" or something, like they were already anticipating being caught in their lie
@@danielnemesio3388 or those people just didn't have a comeback so their response was everyone else must be dumb.
A perfect way to put my frustration, thank you.
@@IllustriousCrocoduck Yeah, that's what Matthew 7:6 is all about "casting pearls before swine." When the writers of the Bible realized there were people who knew they were full of sh*t, they wrote Matthew 7:6 as a way to make believers feel better about themselves by painting the smart skeptics as the dumb ones. Pretty clever, actually - they understood basic human psychology.
This diet goes against man's desire to eat ice cream, therefore it must have been given to us by aliens.
Space daddy*
@@gozzilla177LOL
@@gozzilla177😂😂😂😂😂😂
no. a diet for people who are overweight and unhealthy. A diet was created by people for health reasons.
@@thebirdguardien.14 why are you typing like that? and obviously the commenter knows, it is to mock the losers who repeat this argument in the first place
What a great recruitment slogan that is.
"Join Christianity, you'll get none of what you want."
Sounds like it could be a Simpsons bit
Repressing people's desires is a mechanism of control
It's especially funny because our ideas of good and evil are based on what we consider desirable. So this claim is equivalent to saying the true religion is the one with the most malevolent god.
@@mikek9297 man desire's only lead into emptiness
"And it won't be easy"
Mentioning both Buddhism and Jainism is awesome. I am a Buddhist that follows many Jain practices of non-violence towards all living beings. I do not limit myself to only a single religious or secular path as you can find wisdom in all kinds of teachings.
Even 9 year old's arguments are better than tik tok level arguments.
*old's.
there’s no difference in them.
The op has fixed their mistake.
@@ontoUmer*olds’, if you’re being pure.
@@user-vt3vo1yd3v dont diss the 9 yr old
“If Christianity is a man made religion, why does it suck?”
surely if man made this religion they'd at least make it cooler
I was raised in a catholic household, and I can confidently say that it doesn't suck. The problem is the people who use their own religion to justify their wrongdoings.
@@audrete6071 So you say, that man only made cool things? Take for example the imperial units. They are man made and not very pracital. Why it is not more like the metric system? Man do made thinks that suck. And I'm pretty sure that the founders of Chistianity thought that they are right, even if some of the rules they declined are against man's desires.
@octosquid48 homie, you really think that Christianity and more specifically the Bible don't have gigantic moral and social issues (hence they suck)?
LOL exactly, it's a hell of a sales pitch. "Our religion is miserable drudgery, come join us!"
If self help books are man made, then why are they going against mans desires? no lusting, no drinking... why do other religions like Islam Buddhism or Hinduism or philosophies like stoicism follow the same trend?
This question fits the other online trend of "Tell me you ... without telling me..." trend.
Tell me you are ignorant about other religions and philosophies without telling me that you are ignorant about them.
@@washada the word Yoga comes from the same root as "yoke," with the implication being that one could only achieve true freedom through extreme self-discipline.
I’m especially fascinated by how many literally know nothing about their own religions development the contents of their magical book and the origins of the grand wizard himself.
@@Jcs57I also wish Christians would be more curious about their religion's history, but there is a logical reason for why they aren't more curious. If they knew the history of Christianity, then they wouldn't believe what they do. Look at what happened to Bart Ehrman, for example. It's hard to believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired word of God while knowing that many of the New Testament books are altered, falsely attributed, or straight-up forgeries.
Really shows how Schools should teach about all Religions and not just Christianity.
@@jimmyhirr5773 Early Christianity was so different to the current one too, plus Gnosticism existed, but Christians just... Don't care.
00:17 1. We don't all have same desires. 2. Religion even tho the idea is nice has been exploited by bad people as a source of power and many bad things were done in its name 3. This is just a comparison. i don't mean any hostility by it, Cults consider themselfs religions and most things cults preach are restrictions to its members and doesn't allow them what they "desire", the idea is that the point of the religion or cult is that your average believer isn't gonna be able to do whatever they wish for so that someone higher up can have control. I have nothing against religion these are just some logical answers to that question
I had the displeasure of losing my grandma a few weeks ago. She was a Christian. We reassured her in her final moments with the idea that she was going to see her loved ones soon. I’m not Christian, but while reassuring her and grieving for her I noticed that I really want it to be true. The idea that she is with my grandpa and that she is no longer suffering is very comforting. Meaning Christianity definitely has its desirability.
its just coping as you wish it was true but deep down you know the sad reality that after death there is nothing
Well, ain't that a hellish thought, where life and existence are entirely pointless and empty and that you would rather there be nothing than something at the end. It isn't cope to have faith in something outside the physical or even something after death, depending on the view of quantum mechanics you could take. So then, why are you here destroying a person's hope when there's no scientific evidence to disprove something after death? Why not have a little faith and hope in something science doesn't have an answer to? Or is it a way of copeing with there being something?
sorry for your loss :/
It is sad, that people dont see the special thing christianity has to offer. They just deny, dont seek the truth. They just argue whilst I found the truth. Btw, religion isn't always right, but god is definetly real, if all of you like it or not.
@@PANZERKACKER i don't believe in god but why would i not want it to be true? it would be a completely positive thing for me
now i won't lie, i thought the title was ''athletes can't answer this question'' and got thoroughly confused for a moment, but this is fine too.
Athletics works too
"Exercise goes against our desires to be lazy"
@@darkmatter1129 And it works both ways too. Exercise can fulfill our desires to be healthy and functional and look good
😂
Crossfit. Sport for christians, right?
“If run fast, then why cars? Checkmate, athletes.”
"If cigarettes are man made, why are they causing lung cancer?"
Because humanity isn't perfect?
because men like them! i mean… man likes them!
Cigarette companies are gods obviously
Masochism. (I'm kidding, but it can be true some what.)
because in the 1900s when they were popular people didnt know they were bad. now, in 2025, we know they are bad but people are addicted and it makes businesses money
"Be kind to each other." "Do not judge, lest ye be judged." "Do not kill."
If it goes against _all_ your desires, I think you need help.
Problem is that Christianity likes to hide that in a Buzzfeed Top Ten list and fill up the first few with stuff like "Obey me!"
Then when people complain about the first few bits of that list, it's like "You don't like the list? You don't like the later part of the list!? What's wrong with you!?"
Best I can answer is "It doesn't." I don't desire to kill or steal, and most atheists agree in most cases.
Also.. lot of the restrictions are "you can't.... unless...."
lust is a sin
@@hosemad69 and some of us are aroace.
@@RoderickEtheria okay? You can't say you haven't done something bad ONCE in your life, everyone has, everyone will, and, aroace people can be lustful as well, IDK where you got that from
@hosemad69 But the argument that it goes against natural desires, when many of the things it preaches are actually supporting the natural desires of at least certain portions of society doesn't support its argument.
I hate social media for exactly this reason: A person can pose a thoughtless question or statement to millions that obviously invites debate and demands correction, and the people having to respond to it to debunk, correct or counter the argument are then driving engagement and cause it to be promoted in the algorithm with comments and views - when a mindless concept should be just as mindlessly ignored.
Agreed, dumb people can just say something stupid never questionning their claims and forget about it while others are left to think and discuss it.
In the end it's just an elaborate system to waste resources.
Keep the dislike ratio up, regardless of comments, if the video has a lot of dislikes, then the algorithm will not show it to a lot of people, regardless of the comments.
A german dashcam channel had testet it out, with telling his viewers to dislike a video at the start of the video.
Was the video with the least amount of views by far of all of his videos and some people even asked, when the next came out, if he made a mistake in the video number, since they haven't seen the disliked one, cause it didn't show in the recommendations.
So if people would start to dislike, stupid and bad stuff, it would die down from alone, even if you would comment on it or engage in the comment section. (If it weren't for the personal recommendations, that at some point would not show these videos to you anymore to dislike them... And people who are as stupid as the creator and therefore like it...)
Welcome to your White Knight: Reductionism and Mathematics to the rescue. A formal way of generating infinitely many stupid questions and a formal way of answering/addressing them all at once.
If people are not made to feel guilty about breeding and murdering animals for meat, then they should not be made to feel guilty or ashamed about anything. Period.
I actually dont agree. While i recognize some of the downsides, i think the best way to deal with these types of things IS for people to interact with and correct it. While social media does tend to spread misinformation, it also does the opposite. For every mindless concept that is ignored is an equally mindful one that would benefit the whole. The solution to these problems should rarely ever be getting rid of the advancement that caused it. Because we keep doing that and we never go forward as a species. Instead, we should inform the masses on ways to scrutinize the information they see and encourage better critical thinking. We should think of putting things in place to catch and correct misinformation and maybe even combat it ourselves. Thats what i think is the best solution anyways.
"If your car can go over 100 miles an hour, why is there a speeding limit?
that's literally the question's logic.
That’ll be the Standard American “Literally?”
@@annoyingbstard9407name checks out
@@annoyingbstard9407 name checks out
Am I the only person who felt free when I realised that my life has no meaning? I don't want my life to have a meaning. Having a life that had a meaning made me miserable. I like that it doesn't matter what I do, that's less pressure being put on me to find a purpose that I might hate in the first place (that was my relationship with God, not having the free will (despite him claiming that I have free will) to be myself and do what I want and not do the things that I hate). I like being able to decide for myself what to do with my life and creating a meaning of my own that I actually like. When I figured out that my life had no meaning, a weight was lifted off of my shoulders. Because my life doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what I do, I can do whatever I want and it doesn't matter, life goes on, the universe will still be the same. I think that's awesome. I don't know if I can speak for everyone, but I can definitely speak for myself. I am not living a life of despair, that is not true at all. I can just exist and that is good enough. Why would I want to go back to having someone else (God) decide for me what my purpose or meaning is just so I can please their ego? Someone who is not even living the life that I am living and is too self-entitled to understand or empathize with the struggles that I experience in my life, especially the struggles that come with pleasing his ego. Why would I want to do that? I don't. I am happy having a meaningless, purposeless life.
Glad you brought up Buddhism. When I heard “Christianity goes against man’s desires more than any other religion” my mind immediately jumped to Buddhism lol
The irony with their statement is that, because of historical reasons, Christianity is the abrahamic religion that indulges the most in desires
As a Christian, I also thought the same thing. I really don't think that's a good argument as evidence that something is a divine teaching.
Desiring to get rid of your desires in Buddhism? This is gonna be a problem...
Except buddhism, as originally outlined, was a) atheistic and b) a philosophy, not a religion
@@wcjerky
how so?
Christianity as a man made religion actually appeals to one of humanity's most deep and primal desires: immortality.
Thus appeasing the fear of death. Was also the first thing I thought when I heard the argument. This is probably one of the strongest appeal to any religion.
wow dude that is so deep
i am tearing myself
aswell as making the followers of said religion feel special when in reality we are all just animals.
@@tourdeflores2693why comment, it’s true, most ppl probably didn’t think of it
@@tschakatschada Atheists have slaughtered more than 110 million people in less than 100 years in the name of atheist religion, making it the most lethal religion in history with islame on a close second
0:20 read that and immediately thought: "are you saying that murder is a man's desire?"
Sex is a man's desire
@Jpeace91 well yes but that only shows that one of the biblical commandments goes against desire. The argument relies on lots of teachings fulfilling that, not just the one
@VivekPatel-ze6jy you read me right
@@VivekPatel-ze6jy desire doesnt ALWAYS equal to sex, it can be gluttony (eating stuff like candies and chocolate) or gambling
besides, sex is a gift from god. MISUSING it (you know, rape and all of that stuff) is where it becomes a sin
Yes
"if jesus christ died for our sin, why do you need to police everyone not to sin?"
As an atheist, when someone says Jesus loves you, I take it as a compliment, because I know that it’s one of the nicest things for a Christian to say but I always laugh inside because it’s kinda funny to imagine if I walked up to you and said Pablo the glass/concrete eating man loves you. Like okay, I don’t know if Pablo is real, or if he did any of those things, but if he turns out to be real somehow and the gastrointestinal track of Pablo can take that shit then I guess I’m happy he loves me????
@@Jacksatronwell historical evidence points more to Jesus than most kings
So it’s not a if he existed it’s a he existed
Because you need to read the Bible because it answers this exact question
I will answer it for you though the requirements to get into heaven are this
You need to fully believe in your heart that Jesus is Gods son, and that he was sent down to earth to die for your sins
You need to confess that you have sinned
And the final one is that you need to try to refrain from sin (it’s that you need to try to avoid sinning throughout your life, but even then everyone will still sin including myself)
@@TheHunkiestCandle if a god like that exist then where did his corpse went? what happened to the cross he crucified on? did the parasites ate him? or did the heaven suddenly float the cross up?
if jesus actually existed theres one evident (and smart) way to find out and its to find his body. no ands ifs and buts
@@Jacksatron yeah probably the only nice things christians will say bc other than that they rant about how different this celebrity is because shes lesbian or smth
Christianity is in absolute favour of mans desires: "please, someone pay for my sins because i will never take responsibility for myself"
this is a vast misunderstanding, which in and of itself is understandable and many christians do not understand it either. we are not called by the bible or God to ask for forgiveness… we are called to repent and be better because of forgiveness. and it is stated in scripture that those that do not repent are not forgiven because God would know our heart. so no one can trick him and be like “ah ha! gotcha! i asked for forgiveness so i’m good!” so… youve done exactly what this video is about: make a wildly misinformed remark that is supposed to be a gotcha moment, but any christian that has studied scripture at all would know how to refute that… and we refute that by agreeing with you… ‘christians’ that behave that way are not what christians are supposed to do
So repentance is getting your crap togheter and get your life in place?@@superduperdonkey911
@@superduperdonkey911 Which you know because you are the only person alive that knows the one true way to read the bible. Because you're such a special little boy that God personally put on Earth to speak truth, while all those other Christians are just pretenders. Gotcha.
It's time to put down the ancient book and wake up in reality dude. Universes cannot be spoken into existence, and people don't walk on water. These are bullshit tales you've been told to believe in, and that harms millions of people every day.
@@superduperdonkey911asking for forgiveness is literally the definition of repenting….
@@superduperdonkey911 Condemning people to eternal torture because they made an honest mistake is still sociopathic.
Wait, this is an argument for Christianity and not Buddhism?
Yeah or jainism.
He says that in the video
@@JonS Commented first minute in. It's a bad habit, I know.
Buddhism is man made so it would be a weird argument for Buddhism
Some confusion is understandable...
I'd argue religion actually satisfies two of the biggest human desires. It assuages the fear of death, and it gives a reason for suffering. Many go one step further, and promise divine retribution against unpunished evildoers.
I'd also argue that there are cognitive/rational explanations for asceticism beyond costly signaling. Some restrictions might have been proto-health measures, some might have been ways to maintain power structures (limiting women's freedom, punishing the 'greed' of lower classes), and some might have been consciously adopting behaviors in opposition to an enemy's culture
With the action of "preying" it also gives you a feeling of power when you have none (thoughts and prayers) or makes it easier for you to not act in the real world.
This right here
It also fulfills peoples' desires to feel like their lives have a "higher purpose", a desire that is startlingly common place and it also fuels a superiority complex, something else that is all too common in people.
Just like how blaise pascal argued that you gain more from religion two it's better to believe in god (I'm atheist but I still agree)
@@burningtheevidence8038first its called praying not preying (preying is hunting)
Second how is talking to God a show of superiority (while some do only pray just to show other Christians they pray that’s not the point of it) praying is how you can ask things of God, thank God for what he has given you, and to ask for guidance from him
If you feel offended by people praying just ignore them or you could pray even harder than them to truly show your superiority
Denial of basic desires is literally HOW cults and religions recruit.
I wouldn’t consider murdering a basic desire
I'd say those wannabe influencers aren't even making an argument. They're pandering to people who already believe, hoping for engagement, wishing Tik Tok will make them viral and they can get paid.
I feel this answer has hit the nail on the head.
It's the religion of grift.
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Matthew 6:5
I'll see myself out.
of course they are, they're doing it to gain views and followers, they're doing it to attack their enemies and to make their followers feel good about themselves
they're not trying to "save souls"
yep, tiktok religion farming.
I've seen this a lot with people who are in Evangelical orbits. "Desires" are just all the things that they take to be bad. I remember talking to my sister in law and she claimed that without her faith she would probably be neglectful of her daughter because what she desired was to be independent in certain ways. I literally had to point out that the very fact that she was worried and knew that she would feel guilty if she neglected her child meant that she also desired to be a good mother to her daughter. It's that brainwashing: "Everything I want is evil cuz I'm a sinful, depraved creature." People are literally taught to discount their most noble impulses and attribute them to God.
The groundworks are simple: Everything good gets accredited to god, everything bad is one's own fault. Making people believe that they're evil and depraved from the get-go (but the god who created them to be that way is obviously perfect and would never make a mistake, huh?). It's horrendously toxic.
How did she react to you pointing it out?
@@DundG Ever since she had her daughter she's been thinking more critically about all the Orthodox Presbyterian stuff she was raised with. She received the comment well. She's still going to church and all that but has since said some things about doctrines that she will not be teaching to her daughter.
I agree. You're playing with a game of first and second order beliefs. The first order belief is "I want to be neglectful of my daughter to have more free time", and the second order belief disapproves of the first order belief, saying "But I won't do that because I want to be a good mom to my daughter first and foremost."
Man what's worst.. is that religious people basically admit they are all Psycho that don't go around killing others just because they have faith..
How scary is that? XD what about self restraint and fukking respect for others without the fear of being sent to hell?
Just like.. being a decent human being without gaining something or without a reason?
I don't get how these people are so stupid i swear.
In their mind, im not religious, so if i help somebody what happened? how do they explain that? do their brain just crash?
Those claiming to have questions atheists can't answer fail to realize that "I don't know" is a valid response.
Or that sometimes there is an obvious answer but it would take too much time to bother explaining.
Or that there is an answer but they don't accept it cuz it goes against what they believe :/
And furthermore, it is often the ONLY valid response.
The "questions" are rhetorical, in the sense that they aren't actually putting them out there in the hopes an atheist will respond. These types of posts are to spread around to other like-minded believers, to reassure themselves in their faith and that unbelievers are stupid and confused.
Or they can't be bothered and it's a total waste of time to talk to religious folks
I still can't believe there are people in the 21st century who are religious.
Why not?
@jennifersmith4864 idk, maybe because the universe was created with the big bang and there's no higher source (like any form of god) and people only believe religions so they can blame someone else for their faults or can pretend everything will be better if they have faint instead of actually doing something for themselves.
I’m orthodox(Christianity but it’s correct)
@Davie03q
OK by me.
How imagine Christian “gotcha” questions gain popularity:
Christian person: here’s a question no atheist can answer!
Same person: *cannot answer the question themselves and assumes-without checking-that no one else can*
These aren’t “gotcha” questions
They are people making bold claims, and having the claims tested
The creator of this channel purposely picks the ones that are the most bold due to them being the easiest to respond to, and it causes people to talk in the comments
The guy who creates these videos is smart he has the Christians try to save the atheists while the atheists laugh at the claims that the Christian made in the video
There are actual claims that atheists can’t answer like why would multiple people be brutally murdered for something they know is false when they could just say it was false (none of them did that, and not once in the gospels does it ever contradict each other, and they even add context to the other gospels stories)
Even though I am doing the exact opposite of what I am about to say I would say it should be done
Don’t comment on his stuff, don’t like it, and don’t respond because all that does is put money in his wallet.
@@TheHunkiestCandle "There are actual claims that atheists can’t answer like why would multiple people be brutally murdered for something they know is false when they could just say it was false (none of them did that, and not once in the gospels does it ever contradict each other, and they even add context to the other gospels stories)" we don't believe in the bible's authenticity and truth. The first written telling of the story was *decades* after it happened.
I think it’s funny that no matter how many times someone answers these questions people will still use them as a “gotcha!” question.
Yeah, someone genuinely tried to convert me with Pascal's wager a few months back and I was mostly just disappointed
@@stanley9868 Pascal's wager makes a good gauge regarding how much time the individual has spent in deep thought on these matters. Not much
True, although I see it more often from atheists trying to "gotcha" at Christians with silliness like mixed fabrics, shellfish, and claiming that the Bible promotes rape and slavery. It's a problem both sides have when they're more interest in scoring points for "likes" and publicity rather than engaging in substantive debate.
@@stanley9868That would have the opposite effect on me. "But what if you're wrong and god does exist?" "Well, considering the state of the world and people in general, I think it's safe to conclude that if god does exist then they're an asshole. So I wouldn't pray to them anyways."
They are incapable of actual learning. They only "learn" when the "information" coincides with their already-held beliefs.
"Christianity gives a reward, a purpose for being a better man. The religion was built around man's desire to be better despite flaws, therefore it is not against man's desire, but for it." -An Atheist
Which athiest
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Me
@@wyleecoyotee4252 just an average atheist you will find on the street lol
@@SonnyaEre
An athiest wouldn't ever say anything like that.
I certainly wouldn't.
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Well I'm an atheist and I certainly would. Although not everyone is the same of course. Sorry if I have offended you, it was meant to be a little joke. If you wish i can delete it :)
I don't know a single atheist who would be confounded by this simple question. The question assumes Christianity uniquely constrains human desires, when in fact it reflects very human impulses - the desire for control, certainty, and power. Those who crafted religious doctrine weren't suppressing human nature; they were exploiting it by creating a system where a privileged few could claim divine authority to govern the many. The restrictions placed on common people's desires conveniently exempted or were routinely ignored by religious authorities themselves. One need only look at the wealth of medieval churches or the behavior of televangelists to see that Christianity has often served human desires quite well - just not everyone's equally.
Imagine claiming Bertrand Russell has less will to live because of his atheism and then showing his lifetime of 97 years 💀. Apologist did not prove his point
if anything atheists would have more reason to live longer lives, because you know, the endless nothingness after death? they seriously have no logic lmao
I think this just goes with the trend that tiktok arguments are very powerful when the counter argument can't be made in a tiktok amount of time.
Brandolini’s Law. The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.
Oh, it CAN.
But anyone who regularly posts to, or relies on, Tiktok isn't intelligent enough to make that counter.
Honestly, if anybody wants a short and pithy response to this supposedly-difficult question, it's actually pretty easy.
Why would a man-made religion be against man's desires? The simple answer is the old "opiate of the masses" explanation. Rich and powerful men will push religion on the populations they control in order to preserve the power structures that keep them at the top. They tell you that you must be pious and humble and virtuous, while they themselves will be none of those things.
There you go, question defeated.
As an atheist I don't feel despair. I accept the oblivious after death. Theist fear there is nothing after death.
i dont think that is true at all, while some people does feel like this, you are generalizing too much
theists don't fear there being nothing, they just can't comprehend there being nothing therefore they use religion to explain it.
you mean you accept that oblivion is obvious?? 😁
Nope. Theists fear that they will be judged to be not good enough and then end up in hell. That is their deepest fear so they go overboard with their faith so that they will be "good enough". I know, I was one of them.
@@feonor26 We are talking about two different levels of motivation here: on the one hand, fear of going to Hell, but on the other, fear of oblivion, of nothingness.
One is a conscious, known motivator and is what the bible tells people will happen if they are "bad" ;
the other is the deeper primeval collective subconscious motivation for creating religion in the first place, and would rarely be admited to by believers because it essentially questions the foundation of their beliefs.
i.e. Why do you go to church?
A. to get spiritual and moral guidance so I can navigate my immortal soul down the path of righteious and gain a seat in paradise (fear of hell)
B. because deep down I fear that there really IS nothing in the afterlife, so I comfort myself in the hope that this thing called "religion" is true and I will hopefully be immortal. (fear of oblivion, or, fear that all this religion stuff is fake).
Which answer do you think the devoted will give?
Just because someone can't answer a question doesn't mean you're right
It feels like they’re trying to defend a toxic relationship. ‘The worse conditions I have to live in the more likely he is real and loves me right?’ Why does everyone assume god would be good?
The idea of an evil god, if a god even exists, is much more likely IMO. All you have to do is read the bible, assume that the god depicted within is all-knowing as Christians are required to believe, and make the conclusion that the god of the Christian bible is quite evil.
It's written he is good. That's it... And also there's no reason to love an evil god, or else you do it out of fear which is actually what happens to some people.
According to the bible, god is the undisputed champion of killing humans. He beats satan's body count by millions of people.
Actions speak way louder than text, god is obviously the opposite of good.
@@planetary-rendez-vous Is it written? The OT paints a picture of a genocidal maniac and the NT of a maniac who has his own son killed; there’s nothing loving about those things. It’s all “love me or else”.
@@kellydalstok8900 Actually I don't know. I assume. In the Bible there's all this talk of love in the NT and sacrifice. You would assume god is all good from there I guess.
"Freedom of religion" includes freedom to not have religion.
Does it say freedom to not have religion though 🤔🤔🤔
Checkmate atheist now go to church
Religion takes away freedoms.
i.e. the Crusades, certain Middle-Eastern laws, and the Westboro Baptist Church.
"If Christianity was created by man, why does it go against all of man's desires?"
Because it's a control mechanism. There, answered it.
Rules for thee, not for me.
Sounds like you answered before watching the video.
@@DundG I watched much of it. Why does that even matter anyways? I answered it myself.
@@DundG its a very reasonable answer however it is harder to prove and paints Christianity in a much more negative light, which is probably why it was avoided in the video. While somewhat obvious(in the same way government/laws are control mechanisms) it can be a poor argument to make because it will appeal to people who already look down on Christianity but will make those who respect it feel attacked and defensive and less likely to listen to the rest of your arguments.
It doesn't go against them at all. People desire to transcend death, abrogate responsibility, clear their consciences without working to right wrongs they have done, presume superiority over others, externalize their faults, be loved and accepted, know that the people they think are wicked will suffer, shed their own pain and suffering, and a laundry list of other things, all of which religion promises/allows.
In Denmark there’s this thing called “jante-loven” (jante’s law). It basically says stay humble and don’t pretend you’re better than others. It’s obviously an unwritten rule but a lot of Dane’s stick to it to at least some extent. So does the fact that Dane’s came up with this social norm, which goes against the most basic human need; flexing, balling and having swag, make the Dane’s Devine?
All religions evolved from homo sapiens' desire to understand and control the world around them. Hence, why there are rules to quash your desires. It gives them control and they don't have to understand others' differences. They can just label them as evil.
@@orthodox.nikolai it's exactly what this video says but with different words.
@@cal8354yeah, people tend to forget that at the end of the day. We are still animals.
Back in the past when we didn't know why something happened we would blame it on a god. Like God got mad at my friend and made a lightning bolt hit his hut.
But now we know why most things happen and it's not God taking revenge.
@@a9ball1Yea, I think it all initially started as an unknowable force, that was just a happenstance, but as a intelligent social species we start giving things names and associations, believing in a God is a very historical human thing to do, but it doesn't make it the truth is what people don't get.
"I did horrible things to childern, stole from the needy, and violently attacked those who don't think the way I do."
"Do you say sorry?"
"I sure did."
"Ok. you're cool."
Talk about man's desires!
Being an atheist means never having to say yer sorry.
@@jennifersmith4864Correction. Being an atheist means you don't apologise to get a reward when you die.
@@purp4168
Like I said, being an atheist means never having to say yer sorry.
@@jennifersmith4864 I suppose, but it don't mean it isn't a polite thing to do
@@purp4168
Hey, you said being an atheist means you DON'T apologize.
No offense but why be a hypocrite now & do it cuz it's polite? Who are you trying to be polite for?
"It goes against man's desires"
the Aztecs who cropped their own body parts off...
as the fremen say "i cut it there, now that's where it ends"
Then there’s the human sacrifice, which I think is the most against man’s desires people can get
@@qstionblomens6138, sacrifice was convenient way to get rid of children, war captives or means for population control or wealth extortion (if all sacrifice victim possessions were stolen/taken by temple) and also intimidation tactic
Let's not pretend that humans are hive mind with same desires and would never harm one another if given a chance
@@annara686most wouldn’t, humans are built for cooperation.
I'm an Atheist and in college I constantly met creationist, usually all Christians with a few Muslims here and there... One thing you notice about talking to these people is that they generally have the same set of arguments just remixed with different words. This is not a surprise entirely because after all it IS a script that they're being fed, just reedited by someone else.
I could type out a super long comment that would get lost in a sea of comments going point by point, but the thing is, Christians AREN'T interested in a real solid debate in which at the end hands are shook and humility is from both sides... No no no, they want to have the attention on them, they've practiced their orator skills, draw a huge crows (and let's be honest, they do focus on the attention of the dumb because it's easy to convince them) and THEN rapid fire hit you with "gotcha!" questions and then storm off stage OR never allow proper time for a retort and especially NEVER listen to presented real world evidence, because that doesn't fit their narrative.
Here's the crux of what I'm talking about though...
What deeply bothers me is that, as an Atheist, it's not that I'm walking around life constantly moping about being sad and depressed because I am what I am... No, I'm sad because I look at this world as it is, uncaring and usually cruel to life, and see how GREAT humans could have made it for ourselves... But instead of doing that we decided the most important thing to do is imitate nature and just be wildly cruel to one another.
Unlike how Christians tend to say they had a "sudden" revelation and "god spoke to me!" (which ironically if you ever try to claim the same to them, they dismiss you because your god talk didn't include all the hate and prejudice that their god talk did) for me it's been not revelations, but a series of realisations about life that have just continually reinforced in me of, "wow, there really isn't anything out here ever coming to save us from ourselves, we are wildly alone in this universe."
On top of this I always love pointing out to theists that, for one, statically speaking Christians (I'm speaking about American Christians) tend to have far higher rates of crime, sexual assault, rapes, murder, violence, addiction problems, any and all things related to CP so on and so on... Very rarely if ever do you hear an Atheist, especially an outspoken one, being busted again for grooming some young girl.... It's ALWAYS someone who clings on to their outside view of "faith" and then a week later ends up on reddit / pastorarrested (seriously it's updated daily).
Also, Christians continually claim to always be holier and happier than you. But when you boil it down, and I've personally met many people like this, they are just one bad day away from shooting indiscriminately into public or just going out and raping whoever..... Why would I say this? Well, entirely because they always seem to want to tell you horror stories of life prior to "being saved" and I gotta say the scripts are always the same... It's always someone saying they had so much money, had sex partners, did drugs and THEN they always say, "oh my life was a mess, Jesus saved me!" -- As someone who doesn't believe in an afterlife, as long as all of that was legal and consensual, I'm like, "why in the fuck did you leave that then? That sounds fantastic!" --- But the scary part is that, basically, they're imaginary sky-daddy is the ONLY reason they aren't just going out, right now -- like RIGHT NOW --- and just committing insane crimes non-stop.
The reason they project these ideas that Atheists would do this is because that's THEIR internal desires coming out. They cannot understand that there are a huge number of people that do NOT just want to commit atrocities all god damn day.
It's the age old saying (by this point) remember, "every accusation is a confession".
The answer is very simple: Because it's easier to control people when you make them feel guilty and in need of redemption by your religion.
If you tell them "you can freely do whatever you want, you can do no wrong" then they don't need you for anything.
Christianity isn't about control. When the gospels were first written about 2000 years ago, there was no need to control people, because they already had Judaism which controlled the people a lot more than what Christianity does. Christianity is basically Judaism but without so many rules and restrictions (just one: Love), and why would anyone who wants to control cut back on the rules? Christianity only turned into a control thing when catholics took matters into their own hands and starting monetising religion (which the bible clearly speaks against many times)
Christianity isn't about control. When the gospels were first written about 2000 years ago, there was no need to control people, because they already had Judaism which controlled the people a lot more than what Christianity does. Christianity is basically Judaism but without so many rules and restrictions (just one: Love), and why would anyone who wants to control cut back on the rules? Christianity only turned into a control thing when catholics took matters into their own hands and starting monetising religion (which the bible clearly speaks against many times)
I was about to type this up, you are spot on! It’s as simple as that, I’m surprised how this argument out of all the arguments against religion seemed to be unanswerable one. 😂
Also knowing their secrets gives you power over them being afraid how will it affect them, in actual cults snitching and knowing things about common members is one of the tools of control. Jesuits promoted snitching and physical punishment in their schools
Exactly. Control by the useless priest class.
Being sober is a christian thing? As a Belgian this feels weird, since our greatest Beers are made by monks in monasteries and are even seen as cultural heritage.
Inderdaad 😂
Champagne was also invented by monks. Teetotal Christians are weird, but fortunately only represent a minority of all Christians.
Also, didn't Jesus literally turn water into wine?
American Cheistians operate under the premise that they are the only Christians.
@@patsonical *metaphorically
There is a very simple answer to this question. "It went against the COMMON MAN's desires". Religion has been used as a tool of control for the lower classes for a very long time. Those with power and knowledge can safely ignore the teachings of a religion. Those of the lower classes cannot......Additionally it benefits those in power to have the masses forgo their desires baser desires and work for a "common good". And while this can start out good, it does not take long for it to be shifted into control and dominance.
Tecnically religion its a thing that would have involved every single man and woman without looking at the status its not fault of the religion itself if humanity is trash
@@massimilianoreali4398 If humanity invented religion, then yes. Yes it is.
@@Cat-o-mancer no its still not many principle of religion are not wrong when they aren't manipulated
@@massimilianoreali4398 That's a pretty fragile position, because it doesn't directly rely on anything else that's been established in this context. But it does hint at some of the other motivations for "religion". That's a broad and deep field which kind of gets swept over in discussions like the one from this video.
There's a post below about Bentham's opinion on asceticism, which I think underlines the desire to kind of dismiss the whole value system that creates ascetic practices amongst some here.
Humanity's fundamental problem is its tension between animalistic survival and its potential to something more complex and sophisticated than it sees in other species.
@@weatheranddarkness to what position are you referring the fact that religion was meant for every single person without counting status or the fact that some religious principles are good?
I think what a lot of people forget is that these religions are old, really old. There's knowledge we take for granted today that wasn't even conceptualized back then. An example of this is Sexually Transmitted Infections. If you know nothing about viral and bacterial infections, but you know about good and bad and this is definitely one of the bad things then it stands to reason that you would believe your infection is the work of the devil. And, as you live in the ancient past, the best thing you can do to prevent the infections from happening is to refrain from sex altogether.
Absolutely gold. This is exactly like when they created God's like Zesus to explain stuff like lightning because at the time they didn't know what the heck that was.
@@Notcobra66 Mythologies are just religions that just went out of fashion.
My immediate thought when I heard this premise was, “alright. Give me a list of what you think are desires of man.”
-The desire to be a part of a group or tribe (the desire for numbers).
-The desire for protection.
-The desire to lead the pack, to be an authority (civil, moral, or other)
-The desire to be lead (by an authority or otherwise)
Yeah, I’d say the premise that man’s desires are inherently antithetical to Christianity is a false one.
Thank you, i was about to write some of these as i felt them missing in the video.
Especially the aspect of perceived safety that comes from restrictions is an important part of any group dynamic as safety is often inherently understood as an antithesis of freedom.
It also kind of reminds me of how animals are organized socially, especially our closest relatives, and it feels a lot like their society, just focused on spirituality and with some sort of morality that's actually not been there for a veryyy long time.
Religion also serves the prevention of chaos. Especially back during the very uncivilized days with no real surveylance or dna testing to pfove crimes as essily.
The fear of hell can stop crimes. Can make people act in ways helping the community in hopes to reach heaven. Empowers the church/cult in charge. And enriches its members.
So it absolutely makes sense a manmade religion can be against all of mankinds basic instincts. Thats how laws work. And religion served as law as well. And thosr in charge get rich and very much endulge in desire.
I think that the desire of a handful of sociopaths to dominate people played an important part in the emergence of organized religion. Just look at present day power hungry mega pastors.
Tell me you don’t understand the desires of the human flesh without telling me you don’t understand the desires of the human flesh…..
My Grandfather was very catholic
He also wasn’t an idiot and didn’t try to force his beliefs onto me (or others). Sure we sometimes went to christmas mass, but that was because when you love someone you sometimes do thing *they* like. It made my grandpa happy so it made us happy.
I don’t reject the possibility of a god, but I firmly reject the way humans have built almost all religions… for control and power more than for an actual belief.
It also helps that by grandfather quite liked philosophy and science (he did NOT believe in creationism, or other BS people preach out of ignorance). Only time my grandfather tried to “convince” me to believe in god was when we talked about Pascal’s wager… because it kind of made sense (that’s why I don’t just plainly reject god since I can’t prove for or against anyway)
Oh there definitely is a GOD but imo it isn't Jesus, Yahweh, Allah or Jehovah or any of those man made creations they link to THE ALMIGHTY.
im doubting the authenticity of the story given your grandfather didnt use a very compelling argument, yet you said he was "into philosophy", but nonetheless its certainly possible to prove a deity. if youre at all familiar with epistemology and metaphysics then you can see why, just read the summa.
Even if there is a god it is the human centric view that religions take which robs them of validity in the modern era. When humanity eventually dies, or evolved into something new, the nature that god created will continue without issue.
Rare Christian w
"Atheists can't answer this question"
then they proceed to ask the easiest question ever
4 year olds' can't answer this.
What's 2+2
I first noticed this tendency in creationists. "If we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? Checkmate!"
“Theist getting asked very tough questions” *proceeds to strawman and ignore the answers*
theyll be like "atheists can't answer this" and then ask an easily answerable question
If Christianity goes against man's desires. and God made man to have those desires, is Christianity then some kind of "I dare you" perverse game?
Maybe they should start calling God as daddy instead of father.
@@Arexion5293😂😂😂
I mean, if we tried to untangle the downright radioactive mess of psychosexual issues deeply embedded in most religions but Christianity specifically we'd be there for ages.
yes.
>Omniscient being puts tree in Garden of Eden knowing full well Eve will take the fruit and then punishes her for it
An additional point that could be raised is that, in practice, believers tend to apply the restrictions to other people more than to themselves. In that sense, such restrictions are a claim to power over those around you. The restrictions they apply to themselves are the restrictions they are comfortable with. And let's not overlook the fact that if a believer _breaks_ any of those restrictions, a simple prayer of contrition is sufficient to restore themselves to a state of forgiveness--while still insisting that these restrictions are binding on others. Such a self-serving religious system is very much consistent with a human origin.
yeah there's a reason its called 'organised religion' - its all about control and do as I say and not as I do.
So hypocrisy is about dominance?
@@darlalathan6143everything person ever did is about dominance
Christianity endorses patriarchy, misogyny, racism and homophobia.
Yes, darla.
The smugness is the worst part about the whole situation here. It's so sad and irritating to see that these people truly think they found an argument which has no answer and is impossible to debunk. As an atheist arguing against these views it's often extremely hard to keep my irritation out of the conversation, but it is nesseary if we're striving to achieve any progress. Awesome video Drew!
Their stupid smug faces make me want to instinctually get a disinfectant wipe and disinfect the screen.
I am so sleep deprived that I read this as "Athletes can't answer this question" and clicked on the video because I got very confused lmfao
"Their proponents spread them with a smugness that can only be achieved through a profound ignorance of the subject on which they're speaking"
Ouch.
That bit was particularly potent with the actual audio cut out. Not that the copyrighted music would actually distract from how dumb it is to just stand behind a caption and make a series of comically fake expressions like a clown practicing their faces.
Thus was the very best moment in the video, I loved how this felt 🥰
If suicide is man made, why does suicide go against man's desires?
Lol 😂💀 this actually what i want to do, does that makes me a divine being, goes against 'human desire' to survive and thrive 💀💀💀
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@Greeeenmoss please don't do it
1 Timothy 4:
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
@@buukkreider544while dude you should drop that song, amazing verse!
I swear these people remind of when I was a kid, a little too old to believe in Santa, trying to sooth my belief with any lame excuse I could come up with. Always so sad to me when adults do this.
They flood their thoughts with these reflections because they don't want to deal with their reality, the reality of their own suffering and that of people around them. It distracts them from confronting evil and defending themselves from those who really harm or harmed them. It gives them something other than their pain to think about.
@@allthe1 A very good answer!
@@allthe1i think you higly misunderstood religious people if you think this is why people want to believe in god
@@massimilianoreali4398 It's one of many _possible_ reasons people believe in God. One is ABSOLUTELY a desire to _not_ face reality. You'd have to be plain stupid to fail to see that.
@@ashkebora7262 generalization is howewer a bad thing overly in discussions of topic where generalization is heavily used for showing the superiority of one of the two sides
P.S:i do not refere to this comment section
It is very striking how profoundly these arguments are shaped by Western thought/the Western world.
Also completely ignored is the fact that the term "man" can by no logical, or reasonable, argument be considered a single entity, and what may be a harsh restriction of desire for one person is already a regular practice for another, and therefore the entire argument explored in the video does not apply to the latter.
DO this people ever look up their questions before asking it?
No, they don't even think about them 😂
They want publicity, not an insight
This content isn't directed at us. It's directed at themselves. They ask themselves the question, find they have no answer, and assume that's proof of their position. Then the first time one of them foolishly asks one of us and we immediately answer they find themselves confused.
They're asking these questions precisely because they don't want answers. As soon as an answer is provided, they're frustrated and annoyed that we didn't play along with their not answering game.
Actually they do look up the questions before BUT they only listen the people who already agree with them for the "answers"
People who pose these questions will never accept that you can answer the question, as they don’t believe the answer you do provide is valid.
Let's save a step and admit they don't even want to hear our response. They think they made a "gotchya!" moment, and are content with it ending there, in their false sense of satisfaction. They don't really care what we have to say in rebuttal.
@@Chocomunchie this is why I like to give them a choice before I respond. "Good question. Now do you actually want to hear the answer? Or do you just want to assume it can't be answered so you can make a rhetorical point?"
I like the idea of giving them that space, where they either have to admit that they aren't actually having a conversation, or else they have to invite the answer. Getting them to actually invite an answer is a good step towards getting them to actually think (at least a little bit) about what you say
The fact that there are people who will argue in bad faith is not a good reason to never argue, nor to automatically assume that your debate partner is incapable of arguing in good faith.
@@douglaswolfen7820 Thats a good advice.. imma do that from now on.
@@Conqueror-of-Demons👍 (careful with the wording though. The version I posted here is a bit confrontational. There are softer versions)
The most frustrating one: "hOw dO U hAvE MorALiTy wItHoUt gOd"
TAKE AN INTRO TO PHILOSOPHY CLASS
Dozens and dozens of morality systems that don't use the bible!
it's pretty simple.
I don't want to be killed. So killing others would be bad.
and apply to pretty much everything else.
Recently I met a nice variation on this theme.
Apologist: "If not from God, where does logic come from?"
Me: "Logic is manmade - you don't even know to ask the right questions " *)
Apolologist: "If logic is manmade I can make my own logic that rejects what you assert."
Me: "That's exactly what apologists like you have been doing on internet last quarter of a century."
The right question is "How do you ground logic (and morals) without God?" Atheists can answer that one too, but at least they can't use the answers to refute theism.
Marcus Aurelius, Meditations.
I have one more frustrating that is a follow-up to "you need god to be moral". The response I've gotten when I say I don't need a higher power to tell me not to kill or steal or do harm to others: I am being inspired by God to have those morals, even if I don't think I am. I may as well tell them that I'm a Last-Thursdayist (the universe and everything in it, including our memories, was snapped into existence last Thursday) and there's nothing anyone can say to refute that.
@ jmw: in such cases I answer: "Aha, you know and understand better how I think and feel than I myself."
despite all the debate- one of the biggest misunderstandings about Christianity is that we're Christians so that we could supposedly get stuff from God. If you ask any true Christian-every single one would agree that Christianity is about faith (and good works) and how much you could lose. Every true Christian would die for their faith no doubt about it.
So apparently Christianity is our only possible source of hope, morality, or meaning, yet it still goes against all our desires. Okay.
Oh never mind. That was the first thing Drew said. 😆
@@ProphetofZod It's a really good point. It works by shaming a person for their plain existence.
Q: "If Christianity is man-made, then why does Christianity go against common sense, intelligence, reality, science, humanity, humulity, compassion, fairness, kindness, and mercy?"
A: "Because Christianity is man-made."
Yes! Or the Christian deity is just evil. But thankfully there is no evidence for its existence, yet a lot of evidence for the whole thing to be made up by humans. Phew.
I think christianity goes with intelligence, reality, science, humanity, etc.
Btw: You need moral standards for society and therefore you need christianity
Can you tell me what Christianity's moral standards exactly is? For example, does it forbid a person to attempt to murder their innocent child? And what if God wants them to do it?
@@fritztom9918you're telling me that a book which says:
-Insects have 4 legs
-Whales are fish
-Humans can be made directly from soil
-Snakes can talk
-The universe was made in a week
-You need to invite your attackers to beat you up more
-Women who defend their husbands need their arm cut off
Goes with logic? Especially when the data collected from observation, reflection and experimentation goes against all that? Yeah, no.
Also: Christianity isn't the only moral framework in existence. Aside from those of every other religion, most atheists follow humanism, which prioritises humans above any supernatural matters. The morality stems from evolution of social traits and states that we should act with reason and empathy, consider the consequences of out actions and the likely impact on other people and animals.
@@fritztom9918How exactly would you derive a moral solution to any given problem from the bible? Serious question.
They think they have such a "gotcha" question but they mostly argue against average people who happen to be atheist instead of people who have deducated themselves to theological discussions.
man.. i tell you, even idiots can answer that question, you don't need to be a theologist..
It goes against men desire exactly for the purpose to look convincing.
Religions are a weapon of mass mind control.. they have to be convincing otherwise nobody would follow it..
Also its a stupid question in itself as the guy in the video show, because there are many things that go against man desire, and they are not all magically divine because of it..
If religions aren't man made, why is there more than one? If there is one deity and it created these religions, why did it create more than one? Make that make sense.
My one question for them, in response to their claim…. “Then why are you so smug?"
Simple answer, "Why do you follow your religion?" if the answer is: "It gives me hope/meaning/belonging" then boom, desire fulfilled, answered their own question. "It doesn't go against all mans desires".
As a question, being overly smug goes against man’s desires for autonomy when you impose beliefs onto people, which means smugness is divine, or smugness comes from some need to defeat enemies and to feel morally superior to hated foes, which means smugness is of man’s origin. Does this mean all behaviors, going towards some man’s desires and denying others, prove all humans are semi-divine /s
The core of Christianity is "Be a christian or burn in eternal hellfire, but if you DO become christian you'll be in heaven forever".
This is the most blatant, most extreme possible example you could even CONCEIVE of for a religion to appeal to mans desires.
"You dont want to burn in hell for ever? You desire eternal life in Heaven filled with bliss dont you?"
That is the very core of the religion, and it appeals for humans desire to avoid pain and also the desire to be in bliss and never die, and its stated in the most extreme way you could imagine.
everything else is the things you are forced to do in order to get your desired outcome that it has laid out for you.
t h i s
Heck, even the version that actually takes into account how people who are into Christianity want it to be read is more like “God is an infinite grounding, so if you have sinned you can repent, not do it again, and still be a good person”. This is still an appeal for the desire to “be a good person”, so it is still very much aligned with man’s desires.
think you I was waiting for this comment, Christianity is the definition of appeal to man's desires
I feel like the posts aren't made looking for an answer, but to feel the satisfaction of giving a smug smile at the camera with no one yet refuting you. A sort of shadow boxing with an ego trip built into it because you're smirking, unchallenged at the moment, and can count on thousands of people who will see your confident smirk, feel it reinforces *their* confident smirk, giving you a thumbs up. Good smirkings all around.
Exactly. This guy really thinks he knows a lot. Reality is him and the girl talk out of their asses most of the time.
They make them for other believers, in a self-reinforcing pattern. This is necessary, because without constant reinforcement, a lot of religious beliefs begin to collapse over time.