Roy weatherby hit 6000 fps when testing the 30-378 weatherby mag but knowing Roy weatherby he must've filled that big ol case to the brim and used a 30 inch barrel.
Still have a few of these in ‘06. Dad got them on clearance at a store that was closing down around 1990. Couldn’t hit a barn from the inside but wow did they cook!
Got to watch the velocities. I know when I was a young starving college student and only had one centerfire rifle, I would hunt coyotes with my .30-06 loaded with .308 Speer 125 grain TNT bullets. Got decent accuracy, but if you really wanted, you could push the bullet hard enough that it force would spin the bullet apart in midair. So, I imagine shooting a fragile .224 varmint bullet at 5,000 FPS would have a similar effect.
I have a .220 Swift that I used to load with 50gr. 'SX' varmint bullets that I know were close to 4000fps or maybe even more; (I didn't have a chrono so I'm not sure) but they would leave the barrel and I could literally see what looked like a con-trail behind the bullet!!! And they would come apart in mid flight so not really useful. I'd check the target and I could see where small bits of copper jacket and maybe tiny bits of lead would pepper the paper like a tiny shotgun!! They were so hot that the primer pocket would expand and the flattened out primer would just fall out.... I took to loading them down a bit and they became stable and accurate. They would enter a coyote explode like a tiny grenade inside and never exit which was perfect as we were selling the fur hides. The autopsy's were very telling, just one tiny entrance hole in the hide and the vitals would turn to a jelly like mush!!
the 45 or 46 grain .22 Hornet bullets when driven from a 5.56/.223 with the newer, tight twist barrels can be got to self disassemble in mid air as well- Let alone driving them at full speed out of a 22-250 or the Swift. I'm curious what some of the all Copper TSX/TTSX projectiles might do in a sabot out of those over bore 30 cartridges- I'd bet that pretty little plastic point on the TTSX melts well before 100 yards... Can we make those out of Boron carbide?😮 Or would that be a little too much like armor piercing.
Those Remington Accelerators were loaded in .30-06, .308, and .30-30. The .30-30 loads were about even with .22-250 ballistics. I still have a few of the .30-30's laying around.
I remember seeing those 'Accelerator' loads advertisdd when I was a kid. Liked reading &uns and Ammo as a kid as much as I could. .223 with 18" barrel 55 grain is running almost as fast with straight factory loads, and noone argues accuracy on it. Great idea, but don't see worth the effort, be a nice project, but compare them to .22-250, and .223/5.56
I enjoy learning new stuff about the tools we use as hunters and sportsman. Thanks again Ron for sharing new things, old things and just fun outdoor knowledge. Good shooting to you and yours. 🎥💯👍
I still have a few of those factory 30-06 accelerators that I bought back in the mid 80's. I didn't think the accuracy was that great but the muzzle blast is very impressive. The fireball will singe your whiskers. The collector value precludes any more testing.
I have 15 shots for 30-06 from a box of accelerators I bought years ago. Do not fire them trough a muzzle brake of any kind. The plastic sabot expands immediately after exciting the barrel, releasing the bullet, and could brake things.
The problem with that kind of velocity is finding a bullet that won't vaporize within a few feet of the muzzle lead tips won't stay solid past 4 thousand fps you can see the vapor in the rite conditions
Great reminder! Im sure that company will sell out fast! Although saboing with a 300BLK would be counter productive I am wondering if u have heard of or talked about the new Blackout round? 8.6 Creedmoor BLK!!!
The guy that got me into reloading does those fast movers. He’s been reloading 30 years. I’m on year 3. With shortages everywhere, actuality be 2 years.
@@Joeatsaco69 I've been very very pleasantly surprised with my new production Winchester model 70 featherweights! I've been basically shooting single whole groups at 100 yards almost every time I go to the range! someday I'd like to build something that's really wicked accurate but for now that's more than good enough for me!
Great video Ron! Handloading is as much art as it is science. Most of my handloading buddies are pretty smart, meticulous and a little bit crazy! Guys like that are the people who invent most of our new cartridges.
Solid copper projectiles allow faster speeds than lead would previously allow. Add in the newly discovered fact that with enough twist, there will be additional rotational damage applied to the target. We should expect to see much longer projectiles with insane twist rates someday.
???? Longer bullets are for B.C. or long range. Like mile plus. Monolithic bullets are bigger than same weight lead bullets naturally because lead is heavier. Monolithic bullets are also slower because jacketed bullets are soft. Especially the high B.C. bullets. Twist rate is for stability on big projectiles.
Lead is very limiting for speeds. A guy was making a "12 gauge slug from hell" and he was finding that after a certain speed the lead slugs just flattening immediately as would lose so much penetration power. Now if he used a copper or brass solid that would probably be a different story.
I’ve used these. And I’m going to go ahead and point out that on their website it clearly states “BIG SAFETY REQUIREMENT - Never fire sabots in barrels that have muzzle brakes. Premature flowering in the brake could act as a barrel obstruction.” since on the subject that somebody doesn’t seem to want to admit to… wether it was in fact the cause or not.
Ron, At the time Remington was producing the Accellerator, they didn't offer the sabots for handloading. So an article appeared in Guns and Ammo where a fellow made his own and loaded them in the 300 Win mag to 5000 fps. Honestly it was a LONG time ago, so I don't remember who or when the article appeared. Likely it was near 40 years ago. Might be something you could dig up to compare notes to. If a person really wanted a cartridge to go over 5000 fps that doesn't use sabots to get the job done, check out the creation by M.L. McPherson . ( one of the editors of Cartridges of the World ) The round is called the 5x35 SMc and was standardized by CIP and offered by Savage at one time. I had the pleasure of shooting the little round and it indeed produced what it was touted, not to mention accurately, 5,315 fps! I believe an abbreviated article appeared about it in Recoil magazine a few years ago about the cartridge. It is a really unique cartridge with truly impressive speed. Might be an interesting rabbit trail for you to follow. Todd
I mainly stick w/ tactical AR builds. Saw LMT offered a 20" .204 Ruger Stainless barrel on clearance for $400 and grabbed it. I'm not a hunter but am fascinated w/ 4000 FPS! It has 2" of drop at 300 meters and even cooler, with FMJ it's armor piercing
Those Remington Accelerators were good for groundhogs when i was a kid my dad used them in his bolt action but his friend tryed them in his rem 7400 and cloged the gas ports
IIRC in my older Nosler reloading manuals in the section devoted to reloading for the 300/378 Weaterby Magnum who's parrent cartridge was the 460 Weatherby Magnum that was for quite some time the world's most powerful commercially produced non-wildcat rifle cartridge that could hold over 110 grains of powder ( vs a 30/06's 61ish grains) and push a 500 grain .458 bullet to a MV of 2500+ FPS A true giant of a dangerous game cartridge It contains a story of how the US Army in cooperation with Weatherby and sought to develop an ultra fast sniper rifle cartridge based on the 300/378 Weatherby that could and did obtain a MV of over 6,000 FPS. But for what ever the reason it never materialized into anything But still obtaining a MV of 6k FPS is an impressive accomplishment What is even more astonishing is the 120mm APFSDS depleted uranium dart fired by the Abrams MBT has a MV of over 6k feet per second as well.
Lol a 300 blackout with a 55g .224 cal accelerator at around 3k FPS. That sounds interesting. If only there was a cartridge that could do that already. 🤣
Just watched an older video of you talking about using sabots and the fantastic speeds that could be achieved. In the 70's I bought a box of 30-06 accelerators, the problem was you could not hit a refrigerator at 200 yards they were worthless. Speed is no good if you cannot hit your target, as you have often mentioned bullet placement is the most important aspect of shooting no matter what caliber of gun you are shooting.I really enjoy your well-thought-out videos. Keep up the great work.
I got 1 right.used to pack 1 clip of 55's 1 with 165 Sierra boat tails, and loaded with 220 fat nose in the Rem 742 carbine. My 1st Alaskan Rifle. 1978. Next was the Sako 300 with mag, 81. Still using both. Trapper scotty, Alaskan
Saboted bullets-been used in artillery loads since WW2-Germans.Today the discarding sabot is used in M1 Abrams tank gun loads.To top off the gun is a smoothbore!The projectiles have angled tail fins.Run up to 5000FPS plus and this is for a 9-12Pound projectile!!The fastest load I remember-a Guns&Ammo showed a micro meteor simulator device that could launch #6 size plastic pellets to 50,000FPS-of course had to be fired in a vacuum.The pellet could blow fist size holes in steel!!!!The "gun" used very high pressure gas compressed by an explosive charge.
Nostalgic video Ron. I've been looking for those 06 Accelorates for a few years now. Was guessing Rem stopped making them. Years ago I ran them in my 742, on woodchucks. Not great accuracy but it was an open sighted rifle and a lot of fun. Eventually I picked up a used Browning 78 in 22-250. A fun woodchuck and fox gun. After that I just took to shooting a 300 Wby, 375 H&H, 416 Wby and 458 Win on woodchucks. A bit heavy but great practice and loads of fun. Now the coyotes have dug up and eaten all the woodchucks. They did the same to the foxes. A few foxes are coming around but I can bring myself to shoot them. Oh the good old days of cheap (relatively) ammo and plenty of bucktoothed beanfield/railroad grade targets. Keep up the good work. Cheers, Jeff
A friend of mine got into an argument in the bar as to which lever action would shoot farther. The rifles, a scoped BLR in 358 Win. vs an open sighted Marlin 336 in .30-30 Win. The target, a gallon plastic jug at 400 yds. The bet, first man to hit the jug won the other mans rifle! My buddy hit the jug first shot with his Marlin .30-30 shooting Remington accelerators, and took home a very nice BLR.
DOD has a mill shop that turns depleted uranium rounds down to 30 cal, puts them in a sabot in a 50 bmg casing, they scream at just over 7000fps, accurate enough to punch holes in mechanic equipment that are considered safe by our adversaries
Projectile speed is also a function of length of barrel, length of powder burn and pressure surface. Nosler sponsored my dad and he'd regularly chrono speeds above 4000fps but for a match shooter that's just a barrel burner as he called them. Today there is industrial diamond coatings for your bullet to seal tighter and slip easier. Used in modern engines with finer finishes on the cylinder walls and thinner rings but greater cylinder pressure resulting in more power in a smaller engine the tech applies to bullets and riffles.
Bought a box of 30-06 acceelerators in the late 80s, early 90s. Only shot a couple and was told that the nylon sabot would damage the rifling if over used. So put them away. Still have and did not realize that they are now collectors items. If remember correctly were advertised at about 4200 fps. Ones I shot crono'd at 3980 so fairly close.
The sabot .224 caliber 55 grain 308 and 30-06 factory rounds @3,770 fps and 4080 fps, respectively, marketed by Remington 30 years ago, never became popular because they were inaccurate - thus defeating their purpose. I remember using them in my 1/2 MOA HK 770, 308 Winchester. The rifle shot 1/2 MOA with regular factory ammo but would do no better than 1.5 MOA with the Remington 55 grain factory sabot ammo. Remington soon discontinued both.
I'm old enough to have actually used the Remington "Accelerators" in my Model 70 in .30-'06. Several hunting buddies tried them as well. Accuracy was dismal in all of our rifles, like three to four MOA at best. Worse than that was dealing with the plastic fouling left behind in our barrels. Just a bad experience all the way around. Perhaps the modern sabots, some 40 years on, are better. Certainly couldn't be any worse.
I'd like to see them tried in a custom barrel with super slow rifling or even smooth bore. Modern sabot rounds in tanks can't be stabilized with rifling, tanks are very accurate with smooth bore fin stabilized sabots.
I still have 15 shots in a box of those 30-06 accelerators, accuracy wasn't the best, I wonder if the friction starts to melt the sabot making it loose in the rifling towards the end, and ruining accuracy.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 I remember the Accelerators when they were on the market....and looked into why they weren't accurate for many people. Came down IMHO to twist rates being on the slow side in 30 cal barrels compared to what works in 22's. Plus I suspected that the sabot was engaging the rifling but the projectile held within could have been slipping due to its' inertia and not spinning as fast as a calculation would indicate...hence slow spin and poor accuracy.
@@recoilrob324 Interesting thoughts. Standard twist in most .30-'06 barrels is 1:10, with .308's usually going 1:12. Back when these Accelerators were on the market, most .22 centerfires, like the .223, .22-250, and .220 Swift all ran 1:14 twists as standard. We were all happy to shoot 50 to 55 grain bullets in our .22 centerfires in those days, so that 1:14 worked well. It wasn't until the last few decades that heavier .22 bullets and the requisite faster twists became ubiquitous. So, our ten to twelve inch twist should have done the job with the lighter bullets used in the Accelerator (can't remember if they were 50 or 55 grain). In light of that, I think your "slippage" theory has a good deal of merit. Especially in light of the fact that the Army doesn't even try to utilize spin stabilization with sabots, relying instead upon drag stabilization. Now that would be interesting - a smooth bore .30 shooting little saboted darts...
yeah the twist rates were not good which is why they had such bad accuracy... also the plastic sabots were not consistent on how they applied sealing force in the barrel which lead to pressure consistency issues and many simply didnt grab the rifling. if they machined a light weight aluminum sabot with a small tungsten bullet maybe... but aluminum has a tendency to stick itself to steel.
In the late 90's i had several boxes of accelerators for my 30'06 i loved them it would absolutely obliterate coyotes! i got pretty good accuracy with them i hit a crow with one and it no joke turned into mist/confetti,wish they were still available lots of fun to shoot almost no recoil.
A long time ago I had a Custom Rifle in .22-250 Ackley Improved that would push 55 grain Bullets 4200+ FPS with the normal load we used. And with sub 1/2" groups. Saw 4600 FPS when I was working up loads to see what the max was, started blowing primers out of the back of cases at that velocity so we backed it back down. Yeah the good old days.
I suspect the issue is that the plastic sabot doesn’t have enough friction to transfer the acceleration of the rifling to the bullet so that it isn’t spinning as fast when it leaves the barrel as it would be if the bullet was directly engage in the rifling. The plastic is likely spinning around the bullet when it first engages the rifling and it takes a while for the friction with the bullet to get the bullet spinning. It would be interesting to work with one of the high speed video channels to video the bullet exiting the barrel and see if the rate of spin matches the twist rate of the rifling.
A friend of mine some time back told me about the 6mm-06. It is capable of substantially over 4000 fps with lightweight bullets and 24" barrel. I don't know where I saw it but somewhere I read that the theoretical maximum velocity with smokeless propellants is around 5500 fps. I wonder if it would be higher today.
Those 100 gr half jackets were my favorite plinker in my 30-30. The Sabot I had 30 years ago would stick. They would release unevenly really flying off the paper at 100. I found oiling the inside and shooting them within a couple of days of loading helped. I don't remember the brand. I don't know how to keep the bullet together. Maybe fmj would help. Over 4000 and the RPM would throw off the jacket leaving a smoke streak. Maybe a 1:14 twist? Great show Ron.
I have done this for over 10 years, you can make a round very fast but you can only go as fast as the strength of the bullet itself. the centrifugal forces from the spin would tear apart the bullet. You want to go with steel, much lighter stronger, and even faster. A tungsten rod penetrator insert makes it even more diabolical.
Ron... Been away from your channel for a while... and was surprised to see you covering an area that I have just been playing with again. The first time was about 30 years ago. A company called Maadi- Griffith (or Griffin) sent me several bags of sabots for .30 cal. rifles... using .22 caliber projectiles. I had been testing light weight sleeved projectiles in both the .300 RUM and the .30/378 Wby with 36" barrels. Velocities were running in the mid to high 5,000 fps range. Just this past week I have been testing a 30" Lilja barreled Wby Mk V with 75 gr. LH defense 85gr. projectiles with the nose turned down to a spire point configuration, which had essentially the same SD as the 40gr./.22 cal and 32gr./.20 cal. projectiles. Using one of the excellent Caldwell chronographs and a suitable charge of propellent in this gun... velocities ran from 5,007 - 5,185 fps. The latter load was only a grain and a half over the first two and was hot enough to result in a loose primer! The pressure signs of the first two appeared OK. So pressure can show up fairly rapidly with these. I have had a good bit of experience in chasing high velocity platforms at various pressure levels and can tell you that you don't want to go very far into the 6,000 fps range. You will run into serious issues in the mid 6,000 fps range and by the 7,000 fps... range you will be looking at barrel and or gun damage with virtually every shot! There has been some success in the the fairly recent past in the EML community (see: IEEE Transactions in Magnetics issues covering EML conferences) which are somewhat technical, but interesting
Hello Mr. Spomer, first of all thank you for your videos, i like them very much! I am living in Germany (according to 4:16) and the sabots are forbidden in germany exactely for that reason that there are no marks on the bullets and abuse can not be determined. Good hunting from lower saxony, Sebastian Großmann.
It's really interesting to hear about the many different things that have been designed and what they found out. I had the pleasure of working with an interesting mechanic/designer about 20 years ago. He was going for the fastest bullet record , he had made several custom barrels made, and was telling me about his latest creation of a 50 bmg necked down to a 22 . The problem that he was having was at a certain velocity the bullets at the time were coming apart, becoming a 6500fps shotgun . To be honest it could be a fish story, but knowing Ray I highly doubt it.
This is really interesting! I did not know EABCO even existed. Yes, it would be fun to experiment. I remember the 30-06 Remington Accelerator. Very light recoil but poor accuracy. However, I never tried shooting one from a clean bore!
Hey Rom 30 some years ago one of the gun magazines did an article on 5000 fps ( guns and ammo , shooting time or guns can’t remember witch ) I still have it somewhere in the garage. After reading the article I loaded some up. I loaded 76 gr of 3031 with a 55 gr accelerator in a 300 win mag and got 4800 fps with ( no )signs of pressure. Accuracy was only 2 to 2 1/2 in at 100 yds , I think there is potential for better accuracy with varying the powder charge and primer selection , I used Fed 215 ,maybe 210 s would be more accurate ! Boy did they get to 200 yds in a hurry !!! Hope this helps your subscribers . Thanks Ron . BTW I am still hopping for an episode on the 6 x 45 ( 6 mm x 223 ) a very useful but over looked cartridge !
I shot the Remington Accelerators out of my Ruger M-77 in 30-06 back when they were still being made. I got around 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards, which was about as good as that gun shot anything. I never managed to get a coyote with them, but they sure could turn rabbits inside out!
Just a warning for anyone who might not know this, it is 100% possible for a bullet to be going to fast, if a bullet is going to fast it can actually cause it to do less damage because it’ll just explode on impact and won’t penetrate enough to be effective, of course it’ll still almost certainly kill your target but you will have one hell of a time finding it.
I have never heard of a conventional jacketed bullet bonded or not, sabot or not, holding together beyond about 4300-4500fps, though I have heard of plenty of rounds that will in fact shoot beond these limits with monos, the fastest single number I have got from a man here in Melbourne Australia, He had built for him a .17-250 remington. If I remember correctly, though its been a few years, he could hold the 27grn jacketed bullets together to around 4300fps, the 32grn jacketed he could hold together to around 4500fps. Beyond that the projectiles were turning to powder at the mussle or shortly there after. when he moved to solid copper projectiles the 5000fps barrier fell rapidly. He was even able to push solid copper projectiles to dust at 5700fps. His working load was a 29 grain solid copper projectile moving at around 5300fps, and the detail I have chosen to omit up until now for entertainment value is, his good friend whom built the rifle, for humour and science, had this rifle builts with a 50+inch barrel, If i revert to memory again I want to say a 57inch barrel though it may have been 52. In the photographs the man had shown me of he and his son hunting feral water buffalo in the 80's with it, it was quite the musket in appearance. And when I say buffalo, I mean that little pea-shooter, was downing buffalo, cleanly and clearly, the only rifle he ever said that he owned that stopped an Australian Water Buffalo harder than that .17-250 was his .700 JDJ. Other 4000-5000fps slayers I know of and thusly include the Improved variations, are 17cal/20cal-222 Remington, 222Remington Magnum, 223 Remington. 17/20/22-250Reminton, 243Winchester, 6mmRemington. For all the experimentation far and away solid alloy construction was always the victor in speed and accuracy, the jacketed construction never held up. Love this video Ron, truly hit one of my favorite subjects right one the head, SPEED! Post thought, I am currently in the process of building myself a .22-243Win for FClassO target shooting here in Northern queensland. Just the medicine for shooting in the humid, miraged conditions up here lol.
I shot a box of accelerators in the 2000s that I found at a garage sale.. I can confirm without doubt they didn't do much as far as accuracy. I'm not sure I even got 2", but I also didn't expect to or cared. 🤣
In Illinois we have to use shotguns or handguns. I usually carry both. For the shotgun, I use a Winchester Partition Gold, 3" Mag. The bullets are 385 grains. This is not much less than the lead rifled slugs I started out with. The gun is a Savage 210F (the original) with a 24" rifled barrel. The last few years I have taken one shot before the season to verify that the gun is zeroed. I hit the bullseye ever time with the first shot. Good thing, too, since they are $3 per round. I have tested accuracy out to 250 yards and can get close to one MOA at that range. Sabots should not be an issue with accuracy. Actually, many main battle tank rounds are sabot rounds, and they are dead accurate out to 2KM.
There's a huge difference there. Rifled shotgun barrels were designed around shooting sabot slugs. The tank rounds are operated in a similar fashion, the barrel and the projectile was designed that way. No normal rifle was designed with sabot loads in mind. So yes, accuracy is a huge deal with sabot rounds and thus is why the accuracy sucks.
I shot my grandpa’s 742 woods master in 30/06 as a kid and I remember looking in a magazine at the Remington accelerator bullets. I was around 10 and wanted them because they were so fast 😂
I would not say that the sabot will capture all of the gas pressures, because I used to shoot the accelerators, which were 55 grain sabot bullets that most certainly did not catch "all" of the gas pressure, because my semiautomatic 30.06 would not cycle the action, so no they do not catch "all" of the gas pressure.
My brother was playing around with accelerator bullets. They were impressed with them. They were doing a lot of accuracy shooting at the time. I haven't heard anything about those bullets in years. To me they are a varmint round. At those velocities a 55 grain bullet is going to explode upon impact. This is really a varmint round or a target/plinking round.
I think a black out with the sabot would be inferior to the 25-45 cartridge that came out a while back for hunting. Both use the .223 as the parent case.
The record for rifle. velocity is over 6000 fps. It is held by a 1903A1 Springfield. It was done during a pressure test, and it passed with flying colors. 175000 CUP they wanted 75000.The projectile was a 150 FMJ pushed by 62 grains of Hurculese Unique. The test was done in the 1920's by Springfield Armerey.
I think the problem with sabot rounds out of a rifle is they are too fast for rifling, or at least the speed of rifling you get in most rifles. I wonder if they would get more accurate out of some crazy slow rifling, like 1 in 20, tanks use smooth bore for sabot rounds but I think they are fin stabilized.
I've got an old 8mm-06 that has been an absolute dream for reloading over the years. 30-06 brass is (was) so cheap and plentiful. Same with 8mm bullets. I've loaded everything from 120gr. for varmints up to a 240gr. for the big guys. I've become extremely proficent/precise with it because I've been able to afford shooting it so often and put countless rounds downrange over the years. I've also got Grandpa's old Model 94 Winchester .32 Special...Which is easily my favorite gun. Another cheap one to reload for. (If you use 30-30 brass, of course.) I've got lots of .32 Special brass....but if I'm just out plinking, I use my 30-30 reloads always.
Back in the late 80s I bought a 100rd bag of .224 SP and .308 sabots (believe they were out of PA). Loaded them up in .30 carbine, 30-06 (not accurate in my Browning 1895 rifle) and 7.62x54R. Don't remember the velocities but they were high.
Friend of mine used to shoot coyotes with his 06 with 24 inch barrel. Accelerator ammo . One head shot I remember at 60 yards turned everything inside to melted Jello. Did NOT exit . Instant death. No pelt damage. What about 70 grain 6mm out of a 7mm rem mag?
Have you come across the latest wildcat round utilizing the 50BMG with a 30caliber sabot in it!!! I'll just wager those projectiles are definitely cutting some serious air!!! A nice 30caliber 200gr boat tail spitser hollow point would definitely maby make the chronograph run for cover wouldn't it??🥰🤠🥰 Especially with only a 30" barrel with a severe twist rate burning pistol powder!!! The guy I saw shooting it was using a fat benchrestors bull barrel with a gigantic mouser=(bolt action) action!!! I didn't get the chance to find out what the F.P.S. reading's were but staggering comes to mind!!!
My dad had some of those old accelerators in 30-06 that I found and tried to group recently. I shot them out of an 80s model 70 and got about 6” groups at a hundred yards. In hindsight I wish I would’ve just kept them because they’re just cool.
Also in hindsight, I wonder if the poor accuracy was because of inappropriate twist rate. I wonder if a longer 90 grain type 223 bullet would shoot better.
I'd have to check my chronograph's manual, but I wonder what the upper velocity that can be registered would be on the sort of devices that ordinary people can afford.
The only fairly readily available chronographs that will reach the 5,000 fps mark that I am aware of are the Caldwell and the Oehler 35P. The Caldwell has handled velocities of 5,000 - 5,100+ fps and read without fail every time! The 1st 35 P that I owned reached 6,980 fps...25 yds. from the muzzle, or 7,100 fps at the muzzle with a 225gr. L/D 1 projectile...
Huge thanks to Mr Newberg!! I remember playing with these a bit in highschool. Let a coyote have it with my 30-06 with an accelerator. I just remember being somewhat underwhelmed. It just as well been a fmj. I think it may have been going too fast for the bullet to open up. I remember I was using 55 grain Sierra game kings. Never really liked the game kings since then.
The problem with these sabots is they can wobble down the barrel and cause damage to your muzzle brake, Ronnie Barrett said this about his 50 caliber rifles and wouldn't recommend shooting them down any barrel with a attached brake
![POLYCAT - ข้อความรูปยิ้ม [Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lBhIgPGCgbI/mqdefault.jpg)
That was the goal for the .22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer !!!! Boy that was a looong time ago !!!!
My ears still ring!
I remember that, quiet the hurmoor
It boomen louden and splitten earge
Roy weatherby hit 6000 fps when testing the 30-378 weatherby mag but knowing Roy weatherby he must've filled that big ol case to the brim and used a 30 inch barrel.
new barrel per box ?
No, no he didnt
Also I think it was a 100gr bullet he used
Still have a few of these in ‘06. Dad got them on clearance at a store that was closing down around 1990. Couldn’t hit a barn from the inside but wow did they cook!
Both are 30 cal
"Couldn't hit a barn from the insid" 😂
Got to watch the velocities. I know when I was a young starving college student and only had one centerfire rifle, I would hunt coyotes with my .30-06 loaded with .308 Speer 125 grain TNT bullets. Got decent accuracy, but if you really wanted, you could push the bullet hard enough that it force would spin the bullet apart in midair. So, I imagine shooting a fragile .224 varmint bullet at 5,000 FPS would have a similar effect.
I have a .220 Swift that I used to load with 50gr. 'SX' varmint bullets that I know were close to 4000fps or maybe even more; (I didn't have a chrono so I'm not sure) but they would leave the barrel and I could literally see what looked like a con-trail behind the bullet!!! And they would come apart in mid flight so not really useful.
I'd check the target and I could see where small bits of copper jacket and maybe tiny bits of lead would pepper the paper like a tiny shotgun!!
They were so hot that the primer pocket would expand and the flattened out primer would just fall out.... I took to loading them down a bit and they became stable and accurate. They would enter a coyote explode like a tiny grenade inside and never exit which was perfect as we were selling the fur hides. The autopsy's were very telling, just one tiny entrance hole in the hide and the vitals would turn to a jelly like mush!!
the 45 or 46 grain .22 Hornet bullets when driven from a 5.56/.223 with the newer, tight twist barrels can be got to self disassemble in mid air as well- Let alone driving them at full speed out of a 22-250 or the Swift.
I'm curious what some of the all Copper TSX/TTSX projectiles might do in a sabot out of those over bore 30 cartridges- I'd bet that pretty little plastic point on the TTSX melts well before 100 yards... Can we make those out of Boron carbide?😮 Or would that be a little too much like armor piercing.
I second the ttsx sabot. Launch it from a 30-378 to see how flat it will ashtray.
Those Remington Accelerators were loaded in .30-06, .308, and .30-30. The .30-30 loads were about even with .22-250 ballistics. I still have a few of the .30-30's laying around.
I would love to have them, provided you can find them and are willing to turn loose of them.
@@davidmeeks2405 They are so rare that i put them in my "ammunition collection"
Yep, I remember those.
I remember seeing those 'Accelerator' loads advertisdd when I was a kid. Liked reading &uns and Ammo as a kid as much as I could.
.223 with 18" barrel 55 grain is running almost as fast with straight factory loads, and noone argues accuracy on it. Great idea, but don't see worth the effort, be a nice project, but compare them to .22-250, and .223/5.56
@@louislarose6613I completely understand, but I had to ask.
I enjoy learning new stuff about the tools we use as hunters and sportsman. Thanks again Ron for sharing new things, old things and just fun outdoor knowledge. Good shooting to you and yours. 🎥💯👍
Me too
This is actually and old thing that is creeping up out of the basement. It’s pretty cool stuff. Very purpose driven.
Yep. Love my ole favorite 30-06. It's hard to beat with all the ammo options in commercial loads and hand loads.
5,280 fps would be a mile a second. That's pretty fast. Thanks for the great vids.
I'd like to see ballistics at different distances and armor piercing videos
Without any wind resistance
You could do it on Mount Everest. Air is pretty thin up there.
Sounds damn near impossible
Muzzle velocity anyways, by the time it got to a mile it would be slowed down quite a bit.
I still have a few of those factory 30-06 accelerators that I bought back in the mid 80's. I didn't think the accuracy was that great but the muzzle blast is very impressive. The fireball will singe your whiskers.
The collector value precludes any more testing.
I have 15 shots for 30-06 from a box of accelerators I bought years ago.
Do not fire them trough a muzzle brake of any kind.
The plastic sabot expands immediately after exciting the barrel, releasing the bullet, and could brake things.
Back in the day I used the 30-06 Accelerators, loved shooting them, loved the 22-250 also thanks Ron for taking back down memory lane
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I remember those factory sabot rounds.
In 1977 I was 16 years old, and an active hunter.
I remember the ads in magazines for the accelerator
The problem with that kind of velocity is finding a bullet that won't vaporize within a few feet of the muzzle lead tips won't stay solid past 4 thousand fps you can see the vapor in the rite conditions
Great reminder! Im sure that company will sell out fast! Although saboing with a 300BLK would be counter productive I am wondering if u have heard of or talked about the new Blackout round? 8.6 Creedmoor BLK!!!
The guy that got me into reloading does those fast movers. He’s been reloading 30 years. I’m on year 3. With shortages everywhere, actuality be 2 years.
I think unless you're shooting a really small target or at extended ranges or both, 2 MOA is fine for most of my hunting, honestly.
So far I am pulling .4” to the outsides of the holes at 25 yards. Not match grade but still better than some factory stuff.
@@Joeatsaco69 I've been very very pleasantly surprised with my new production Winchester model 70 featherweights! I've been basically shooting single whole groups at 100 yards almost every time I go to the range! someday I'd like to build something that's really wicked accurate but for now that's more than good enough for me!
At 100, shooting two minutes is totally fine. Down here, chasing foxes you'd want 1, often get shots out to 300, with a 3-4" humane kill area.
Great video Ron! Handloading is as much art as it is science. Most of my handloading buddies are pretty smart, meticulous and a little bit crazy! Guys like that are the people who invent most of our new cartridges.
Solid copper projectiles allow faster speeds than lead would previously allow. Add in the newly discovered fact that with enough twist, there will be additional rotational damage applied to the target. We should expect to see much longer projectiles with insane twist rates someday.
1:5 with a saboted solid copper .22 going 6,000fps out of a 6.8 Sig Fury shell would be funnier than all living h-e-double hockey sticks!
Insane twist rates also have the distinct characteristic of accelerated barrel wear.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 that will be with any Projectile in these calibers traveling over 4,000fps. Even upper 3,000s will wear out barrels fast
???? Longer bullets are for B.C. or long range. Like mile plus. Monolithic bullets are bigger than same weight lead bullets naturally because lead is heavier. Monolithic bullets are also slower because jacketed bullets are soft. Especially the high B.C. bullets. Twist rate is for stability on big projectiles.
Lead is very limiting for speeds. A guy was making a "12 gauge slug from hell" and he was finding that after a certain speed the lead slugs just flattening immediately as would lose so much penetration power. Now if he used a copper or brass solid that would probably be a different story.
I’ve used these. And I’m going to go ahead and point out that on their website it clearly states “BIG SAFETY REQUIREMENT - Never fire sabots in barrels that have muzzle brakes. Premature flowering in the brake could act as a barrel obstruction.” since on the subject that somebody doesn’t seem to want to admit to… wether it was in fact the cause or not.
Ron, At the time Remington was producing the Accellerator, they didn't offer the sabots for handloading. So an article appeared in Guns and Ammo where a fellow made his own and loaded them in the 300 Win mag to 5000 fps. Honestly it was a LONG time ago, so I don't remember who or when the article appeared. Likely it was near 40 years ago. Might be something you could dig up to compare notes to.
If a person really wanted a cartridge to go over 5000 fps that doesn't use sabots to get the job done, check out the creation by M.L. McPherson . ( one of the editors of Cartridges of the World ) The round is called the 5x35 SMc and was standardized by CIP and offered by Savage at one time. I had the pleasure of shooting the little round and it indeed produced what it was touted, not to mention accurately, 5,315 fps! I believe an abbreviated article appeared about it in Recoil magazine a few years ago about the cartridge. It is a really unique cartridge with truly impressive speed. Might be an interesting rabbit trail for you to follow.
Todd
Great show today. Very interesting option that the sabot opens up. And can't wait for the caller review.
I mainly stick w/ tactical AR builds. Saw LMT offered a 20" .204 Ruger Stainless barrel on clearance for $400 and grabbed it.
I'm not a hunter but am fascinated w/ 4000 FPS! It has 2" of drop at 300 meters and even cooler, with FMJ it's armor piercing
30/378 Wby, 130 barns torture test on Tuesday tube!
Those Remington Accelerators were good for groundhogs when i was a kid my dad used them in his bolt action but his friend tryed them in his rem 7400 and cloged the gas ports
IIRC in my older Nosler reloading manuals in the section devoted to reloading for the 300/378 Weaterby Magnum who's parrent cartridge was the 460 Weatherby Magnum that was for quite some time the world's most powerful commercially produced non-wildcat rifle cartridge that could hold over 110 grains of powder ( vs a 30/06's 61ish grains) and push a 500 grain .458 bullet to a MV of 2500+ FPS
A true giant of a dangerous game cartridge
It contains a story of how the US Army in cooperation with Weatherby and sought to develop an ultra fast sniper rifle cartridge based on the 300/378 Weatherby that could and did obtain a MV of over 6,000 FPS.
But for what ever the reason it never materialized into anything
But still obtaining a MV of 6k FPS is an impressive accomplishment
What is even more astonishing is the 120mm APFSDS depleted uranium dart fired by the Abrams MBT has a MV of over 6k feet per second as well.
Lol a 300 blackout with a 55g .224 cal accelerator at around 3k FPS. That sounds interesting. If only there was a cartridge that could do that already. 🤣
My best chrony reading was with a 55 grain combined technology ballistic silver tip behind h380 in a .243 was 3993. I haven't tried to push it harder.
Just watched an older video of you talking about using sabots and the fantastic speeds that could be achieved. In the 70's I bought a box of 30-06 accelerators, the problem was you could not hit a refrigerator at 200 yards they were worthless. Speed is no good if you cannot hit your target, as you have often mentioned bullet placement is the most important aspect of shooting no matter what caliber of gun you are shooting.I really enjoy your well-thought-out videos. Keep up the great work.
I got 1 right.used to pack 1 clip of 55's 1 with 165 Sierra boat tails, and loaded with 220 fat nose in the Rem 742 carbine. My 1st Alaskan Rifle. 1978. Next was the Sako 300 with mag, 81. Still using both. Trapper scotty, Alaskan
If I remember correctly they made a 300 win mag accelerator. It was the fastest I believe.
Saboted bullets-been used in artillery loads since WW2-Germans.Today the discarding sabot is used in M1 Abrams tank gun loads.To top off the gun is a smoothbore!The projectiles have angled tail fins.Run up to 5000FPS plus and this is for a 9-12Pound projectile!!The fastest load I remember-a Guns&Ammo showed a micro meteor simulator device that could launch #6 size plastic pellets to 50,000FPS-of course had to be fired in a vacuum.The pellet could blow fist size holes in steel!!!!The "gun" used very high pressure gas compressed by an explosive charge.
Shotgun slugs have been doing it a while for good reason. It's amazing what modern 20ga sabot rounds are capable of doing at range.
Eargesplitten Loudenboomer!
My dad had a box of 30-30 accelerators. I shot half the box at coyotes and never did hit one.
Nostalgic video Ron. I've been looking for those 06 Accelorates for a few years now. Was guessing Rem stopped making them. Years ago I ran them in my 742, on woodchucks. Not great accuracy but it was an open sighted rifle and a lot of fun.
Eventually I picked up a used Browning 78 in 22-250. A fun woodchuck and fox gun. After that I just took to shooting a 300 Wby, 375 H&H, 416 Wby and 458 Win on woodchucks. A bit heavy but great practice and loads of fun. Now the coyotes have dug up and eaten all the woodchucks. They did the same to the foxes. A few foxes are coming around but I can bring myself to shoot them. Oh the good old days of cheap (relatively) ammo and plenty of bucktoothed beanfield/railroad grade targets. Keep up the good work.
Cheers, Jeff
A friend of mine got into an argument in the bar as to which lever action would shoot farther. The rifles, a scoped BLR in 358 Win. vs an open sighted Marlin 336 in .30-30 Win. The target, a gallon plastic jug at 400 yds. The bet, first man to hit the jug won the other mans rifle! My buddy hit the jug first shot with his Marlin .30-30 shooting Remington accelerators, and took home a very nice BLR.
DOD has a mill shop that turns depleted uranium rounds down to 30 cal, puts them in a sabot in a 50 bmg casing, they scream at just over 7000fps, accurate enough to punch holes in mechanic equipment that are considered safe by our adversaries
Projectile speed is also a function of length of barrel, length of powder burn and pressure surface. Nosler sponsored my dad and he'd regularly chrono speeds above 4000fps but for a match shooter that's just a barrel burner as he called them. Today there is industrial diamond coatings for your bullet to seal tighter and slip easier. Used in modern engines with finer finishes on the cylinder walls and thinner rings but greater cylinder pressure resulting in more power in a smaller engine the tech applies to bullets and riffles.
Outstanding as usual my friend!
4000 fps is smoking! 5000 fps is scorching the earth!
Bought a box of 30-06 acceelerators in the late 80s, early 90s. Only shot a couple and was told that the nylon sabot would damage the rifling if over used. So put them away. Still have and did not realize that they are now collectors items. If remember correctly were advertised at about 4200 fps. Ones I shot crono'd at 3980 so fairly close.
Great video.. Remembered the Accelerators.. Have to see about getting some of the skirts.. Would be fun to shoot..
The sabot .224 caliber 55 grain 308 and 30-06 factory rounds @3,770 fps and 4080 fps, respectively, marketed by Remington 30 years ago, never became popular because they were inaccurate - thus defeating their purpose. I remember using them in my 1/2 MOA HK 770, 308 Winchester. The rifle shot 1/2 MOA with regular factory ammo but would do no better than 1.5 MOA with the Remington 55 grain factory sabot ammo. Remington soon discontinued both.
I'm old enough to have actually used the Remington "Accelerators" in my Model 70 in .30-'06. Several hunting buddies tried them as well. Accuracy was dismal in all of our rifles, like three to four MOA at best. Worse than that was dealing with the plastic fouling left behind in our barrels. Just a bad experience all the way around. Perhaps the modern sabots, some 40 years on, are better. Certainly couldn't be any worse.
I'd like to see them tried in a custom barrel with super slow rifling or even smooth bore. Modern sabot rounds in tanks can't be stabilized with rifling, tanks are very accurate with smooth bore fin stabilized sabots.
I still have 15 shots in a box of those 30-06 accelerators, accuracy wasn't the best, I wonder if the friction starts to melt the sabot making it loose in the rifling towards the end, and ruining accuracy.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 I remember the Accelerators when they were on the market....and looked into why they weren't accurate for many people. Came down IMHO to twist rates being on the slow side in 30 cal barrels compared to what works in 22's. Plus I suspected that the sabot was engaging the rifling but the projectile held within could have been slipping due to its' inertia and not spinning as fast as a calculation would indicate...hence slow spin and poor accuracy.
@@recoilrob324 Interesting thoughts. Standard twist in most .30-'06 barrels is 1:10, with .308's usually going 1:12. Back when these Accelerators were on the market, most .22 centerfires, like the .223, .22-250, and .220 Swift all ran 1:14 twists as standard. We were all happy to shoot 50 to 55 grain bullets in our .22 centerfires in those days, so that 1:14 worked well. It wasn't until the last few decades that heavier .22 bullets and the requisite faster twists became ubiquitous. So, our ten to twelve inch twist should have done the job with the lighter bullets used in the Accelerator (can't remember if they were 50 or 55 grain). In light of that, I think your "slippage" theory has a good deal of merit. Especially in light of the fact that the Army doesn't even try to utilize spin stabilization with sabots, relying instead upon drag stabilization. Now that would be interesting - a smooth bore .30 shooting little saboted darts...
yeah the twist rates were not good which is why they had such bad accuracy... also the plastic sabots were not consistent on how they applied sealing force in the barrel which lead to pressure consistency issues and many simply didnt grab the rifling. if they machined a light weight aluminum sabot with a small tungsten bullet maybe... but aluminum has a tendency to stick itself to steel.
you are very knowledgeable person in fire arms
I wish you were my teacher in firearms department
Glad to know you enjoyed those cartridges. Looking forward to seeing the .376 Steyr in a video.
In the late 90's i had several boxes of accelerators for my 30'06 i loved them it would absolutely obliterate coyotes! i got pretty good accuracy with them i hit a crow with one and it no joke turned into mist/confetti,wish they were still available lots of fun to shoot almost no recoil.
I love it when he refers to TH-cam as a “public website”!!! As if it’s still the good ole days!!!
30-378 would be super interesting with that. Might need to try it.
A long time ago I had a Custom Rifle in .22-250 Ackley Improved that would push 55 grain Bullets 4200+ FPS with the normal load we used. And with sub 1/2" groups. Saw 4600 FPS when I was working up loads to see what the max was, started blowing primers out of the back of cases at that velocity so we backed it back down. Yeah the good old days.
Jeeeze lol
I suspect the issue is that the plastic sabot doesn’t have enough friction to transfer the acceleration of the rifling to the bullet so that it isn’t spinning as fast when it leaves the barrel as it would be if the bullet was directly engage in the rifling. The plastic is likely spinning around the bullet when it first engages the rifling and it takes a while for the friction with the bullet to get the bullet spinning. It would be interesting to work with one of the high speed video channels to video the bullet exiting the barrel and see if the rate of spin matches the twist rate of the rifling.
A friend of mine some time back told me about the 6mm-06. It is capable of substantially over 4000 fps with lightweight bullets and 24" barrel.
I don't know where I saw it but somewhere I read that the theoretical maximum velocity with smokeless propellants is around 5500 fps. I wonder if it would be higher today.
Right on
Those 100 gr half jackets were my favorite plinker in my 30-30.
The Sabot I had 30 years ago would stick. They would release unevenly really flying off the paper at 100. I found oiling the inside and shooting them within a couple of days of loading helped. I don't remember the brand. I don't know how to keep the bullet together. Maybe fmj would help. Over 4000 and the RPM would throw off the jacket leaving a smoke streak. Maybe a 1:14 twist?
Great show Ron.
Thanks!
I have done this for over 10 years, you can make a round very fast but you can only go as fast as the strength of the bullet itself. the centrifugal forces from the spin would tear apart the bullet. You want to go with steel, much lighter stronger, and even faster. A tungsten rod penetrator insert makes it even more diabolical.
Ron...
Been away from your channel for a while... and was surprised to see you covering an area that I have just been playing with again.
The first time was about 30 years ago.
A company called Maadi- Griffith (or Griffin)
sent me several bags of sabots for .30 cal.
rifles... using .22 caliber projectiles. I had been testing light weight sleeved projectiles
in both the .300 RUM and the .30/378 Wby
with 36" barrels. Velocities were running in the mid to high 5,000 fps range.
Just this past week I have been testing a 30" Lilja barreled Wby Mk V with 75 gr. LH defense 85gr. projectiles with the nose turned down to a spire point configuration, which had essentially the same SD as the 40gr./.22 cal and 32gr./.20 cal. projectiles.
Using one of the excellent Caldwell chronographs and a suitable charge of propellent in this gun... velocities ran from 5,007 - 5,185 fps. The latter load was only a grain and a half over the first two and was hot enough to result in a loose primer! The
pressure signs of the first two appeared OK.
So pressure can show up fairly rapidly with these. I have had a good bit of experience in chasing high velocity platforms at various pressure levels and can tell you that you don't want to go very far into the 6,000 fps range. You will run into serious issues in the mid 6,000 fps range and by the 7,000 fps... range you will be looking at barrel and or gun damage with virtually every shot! There has been some success in the the fairly recent past in the EML community (see: IEEE Transactions in Magnetics issues covering EML conferences) which are somewhat technical, but interesting
Hello Mr. Spomer, first of all thank you for your videos, i like them very much! I am living in Germany (according to 4:16) and the sabots are forbidden in germany exactely for that reason that there are no marks on the bullets and abuse can not be determined. Good hunting from lower saxony, Sebastian Großmann.
220 swift, in the mid 4’s no plastic and 1/2 Moa, keep the 30’s in the slow lane.😉
It's really interesting to hear about the many different things that have been designed and what they found out. I had the pleasure of working with an interesting mechanic/designer about 20 years ago. He was going for the fastest bullet record , he had made several custom barrels made, and was telling me about his latest creation of a 50 bmg necked down to a 22 . The problem that he was having was at a certain velocity the bullets at the time were coming apart, becoming a 6500fps shotgun . To be honest it could be a fish story, but knowing Ray I highly doubt it.
Redid my Dads 220 AI Swift, can't wait to break the sound barrier with some 62gr Sptzrs, this summer
My Gramps 220 swift was cooking. He also had a .17 jet it left a vapor trail everytime you shot. It was a .357 mag necked down to .17
This is really interesting! I did not know EABCO even existed. Yes, it would be fun to experiment. I remember the 30-06 Remington Accelerator. Very light recoil but poor accuracy. However, I never tried shooting one from a clean bore!
"The Third Bullet" by Stephen Hunter has an interesting take on loading unmatched bullets/cases.
Hey Rom 30 some years ago one of the gun magazines did an article on 5000 fps ( guns and ammo , shooting time or guns can’t remember witch ) I still have it somewhere in the garage. After reading the article I loaded some up. I loaded 76 gr of 3031 with a 55 gr accelerator in a 300 win mag and got 4800 fps with ( no )signs of pressure. Accuracy was only 2 to 2 1/2 in at 100 yds , I think there is potential for better accuracy with varying the powder charge and primer selection , I used Fed 215 ,maybe 210 s would be more accurate ! Boy did they get to 200 yds in a hurry !!! Hope this helps your subscribers . Thanks Ron . BTW I am still hopping for an episode on the 6 x 45 ( 6 mm x 223 ) a very useful but over looked cartridge !
Thankyou Ron
Cheers
Rob
I shot the Remington Accelerators out of my Ruger M-77 in 30-06 back when they were still being made. I got around 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards, which was about as good as that gun shot anything. I never managed to get a coyote with them, but they sure could turn rabbits inside out!
Just a warning for anyone who might not know this, it is 100% possible for a bullet to be going to fast, if a bullet is going to fast it can actually cause it to do less damage because it’ll just explode on impact and won’t penetrate enough to be effective, of course it’ll still almost certainly kill your target but you will have one hell of a time finding it.
Barrel Burners is what I’d call them. Thought about a 85/90 grain capping a 325 wsm. But a blade of grass might blow it up. lol
I have never heard of a conventional jacketed bullet bonded or not, sabot or not, holding together beyond about 4300-4500fps, though I have heard of plenty of rounds that will in fact shoot beond these limits with monos, the fastest single number I have got from a man here in Melbourne Australia, He had built for him a .17-250 remington. If I remember correctly, though its been a few years, he could hold the 27grn jacketed bullets together to around 4300fps, the 32grn jacketed he could hold together to around 4500fps. Beyond that the projectiles were turning to powder at the mussle or shortly there after. when he moved to solid copper projectiles the 5000fps barrier fell rapidly. He was even able to push solid copper projectiles to dust at 5700fps. His working load was a 29 grain solid copper projectile moving at around 5300fps, and the detail I have chosen to omit up until now for entertainment value is, his good friend whom built the rifle, for humour and science, had this rifle builts with a 50+inch barrel, If i revert to memory again I want to say a 57inch barrel though it may have been 52. In the photographs the man had shown me of he and his son hunting feral water buffalo in the 80's with it, it was quite the musket in appearance. And when I say buffalo, I mean that little pea-shooter, was downing buffalo, cleanly and clearly, the only rifle he ever said that he owned that stopped an Australian Water Buffalo harder than that .17-250 was his .700 JDJ. Other 4000-5000fps slayers I know of and thusly include the Improved variations, are 17cal/20cal-222 Remington, 222Remington Magnum, 223 Remington. 17/20/22-250Reminton, 243Winchester, 6mmRemington. For all the experimentation far and away solid alloy construction was always the victor in speed and accuracy, the jacketed construction never held up. Love this video Ron, truly hit one of my favorite subjects right one the head, SPEED! Post thought, I am currently in the process of building myself a .22-243Win for FClassO target shooting here in Northern queensland. Just the medicine for shooting in the humid, miraged conditions up here lol.
I shot a box of accelerators in the
2000s that I found at a garage sale.. I can confirm without doubt they didn't do much as far as accuracy. I'm not sure I even got 2", but I also didn't expect to or cared. 🤣
I got my 17 Remington to go 5049 FPS with a 15.5 grain Hornady ntx and 27.3 grains of Benchmark.......smoking💥
Great content @Ron Spomer Outdoors 👍 🇺🇸 👍
In Illinois we have to use shotguns or handguns. I usually carry both. For the shotgun, I use a Winchester Partition Gold, 3" Mag. The bullets are 385 grains. This is not much less than the lead rifled slugs I started out with. The gun is a Savage 210F (the original) with a 24" rifled barrel. The last few years I have taken one shot before the season to verify that the gun is zeroed. I hit the bullseye ever time with the first shot. Good thing, too, since they are $3 per round. I have tested accuracy out to 250 yards and can get close to one MOA at that range. Sabots should not be an issue with accuracy. Actually, many main battle tank rounds are sabot rounds, and they are dead accurate out to 2KM.
There's a huge difference there. Rifled shotgun barrels were designed around shooting sabot slugs. The tank rounds are operated in a similar fashion, the barrel and the projectile was designed that way. No normal rifle was designed with sabot loads in mind. So yes, accuracy is a huge deal with sabot rounds and thus is why the accuracy sucks.
@@toddk1377 Excellent point. I had not considered that.
@@louisgiokas2206
Good thing we can communicate like this so we all can help each other out 👍
@@toddk1377 Good to hear from you, and hope we can be educated together as we grow in out understanding. Thanks.
I shot my grandpa’s 742 woods master in 30/06 as a kid and I remember looking in a magazine at the Remington accelerator bullets. I was around 10 and wanted them because they were so fast 😂
I still have my grandpa's 742 woodsmaster the thing kicks like a mule in 30-06.
I recently bought one, it definitely lets you know somethings happening
In 30-06
@@allinaday3526 I shot mine once off a bench...3 shots to sight it in....never again will I shoot it again off the bench...never again. Ouch.
It's nothing compared to my 20 GA slug gun shooting sabots...
I would not say that the sabot will capture all of the gas pressures, because I used to shoot the accelerators, which were 55 grain sabot bullets that most certainly did not catch "all" of the gas pressure, because my semiautomatic 30.06 would not cycle the action, so no they do not catch "all" of the gas pressure.
I remember Remington back in the day, pretty smart at the time❤️
My brother was playing around with accelerator bullets. They were impressed with them. They were doing a lot of accuracy shooting at the time. I haven't heard anything about those bullets in years. To me they are a varmint round. At those velocities a 55 grain bullet is going to explode upon impact. This is really a varmint round or a target/plinking round.
I think a black out with the sabot would be inferior to the 25-45 cartridge that came out a while back for hunting. Both use the .223 as the parent case.
The record for rifle. velocity is over 6000 fps. It is held by a 1903A1 Springfield. It was done during a pressure test, and it passed with flying colors. 175000 CUP they wanted 75000.The projectile was a 150 FMJ pushed by 62 grains of Hurculese Unique. The test was done in the 1920's by Springfield Armerey.
Oh my. Thank you. That is smoking hot. Just for the fun of it if nothing else.
I think the problem with sabot rounds out of a rifle is they are too fast for rifling, or at least the speed of rifling you get in most rifles. I wonder if they would get more accurate out of some crazy slow rifling, like 1 in 20, tanks use smooth bore for sabot rounds but I think they are fin stabilized.
I've got an old 8mm-06 that has been an absolute dream for reloading over the years. 30-06 brass is (was) so cheap and plentiful. Same with 8mm bullets.
I've loaded everything from 120gr. for varmints up to a 240gr. for the big guys.
I've become extremely proficent/precise with it because I've been able to afford shooting it so often and put countless rounds downrange over the years.
I've also got Grandpa's old Model 94 Winchester .32 Special...Which is easily my favorite gun.
Another cheap one to reload for. (If you use 30-30 brass, of course.) I've got lots of .32 Special brass....but if I'm just out plinking, I use my 30-30 reloads always.
Great show as alway very informative, I have tried paper patched bullets the fore runner of the plastic accelerators.
👍👍👍
Handloaded .220 swift? Sabot from an M1 Abrams tank? Those are my guesses.
Ron, you’re the best! I love ya man!
Back in the late 80s I bought a 100rd bag of .224 SP and .308 sabots (believe they were out of PA). Loaded them up in .30 carbine, 30-06 (not accurate in my Browning 1895 rifle) and 7.62x54R. Don't remember the velocities but they were high.
Friend of mine used to shoot coyotes with his 06 with 24 inch barrel. Accelerator ammo . One head shot I remember at 60 yards turned everything inside to melted Jello. Did NOT exit . Instant death. No pelt damage. What about 70 grain 6mm out of a 7mm rem mag?
Have you come across the latest wildcat round utilizing the 50BMG with a 30caliber sabot in it!!! I'll just wager those projectiles are definitely cutting some serious air!!! A nice 30caliber 200gr boat tail spitser hollow point would definitely maby make the chronograph run for cover wouldn't it??🥰🤠🥰 Especially with only a 30" barrel with a severe twist rate burning pistol powder!!! The guy I saw shooting it was using a fat benchrestors bull barrel with a gigantic mouser=(bolt action) action!!! I didn't get the chance to find out what the F.P.S. reading's were but staggering comes to mind!!!
I was thinking about 300 Weatherby and I was not disappointed.
My dad had some of those old accelerators in 30-06 that I found and tried to group recently. I shot them out of an 80s model 70 and got about 6” groups at a hundred yards. In hindsight I wish I would’ve just kept them because they’re just cool.
Also in hindsight, I wonder if the poor accuracy was because of inappropriate twist rate. I wonder if a longer 90 grain type 223 bullet would shoot better.
I'd have to check my chronograph's manual, but I wonder what the upper velocity that can be registered would be on the sort of devices that ordinary people can afford.
The only fairly readily available chronographs that will reach the 5,000 fps mark that I am aware of are the Caldwell and the Oehler 35P. The Caldwell has handled velocities of 5,000 - 5,100+ fps and read without fail every time! The 1st 35 P that I owned reached 6,980 fps...25 yds. from the muzzle, or 7,100 fps at the muzzle with a 225gr. L/D 1 projectile...
Fascinating
Huge thanks to Mr Newberg!! I remember playing with these a bit in highschool. Let a coyote have it with my 30-06 with an accelerator. I just remember being somewhat underwhelmed. It just as well been a fmj. I think it may have been going too fast for the bullet to open up. I remember I was using 55 grain Sierra game kings. Never really liked the game kings since then.
The problem with these sabots is they can wobble down the barrel and cause damage to your muzzle brake, Ronnie Barrett said this about his 50 caliber rifles and wouldn't recommend shooting them down any barrel with a attached brake
Still have some of the .30-06 and .30-30 Accelerators that I got from a gun show in the 80's! Some screamin' ammo!
I loaded some 22/243 Middlestead rounds at 5280 fps for a gunsmith friend.
Absolutely brilliant ⁉️ 💣💥🔥🙌🤯😎🤌
Ive owned and hunted. With a .17 remington for over 40 years now. And always thought it was the fastest. Maybe at the time.
I still have a box from about 1979. I think published velocities was 4250 in 30 06