The Marble Machine Drivetrain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- After studying how to improve my design process it's time to roll up the sleeves and actually start implementing what I´ve learned. In this episode I am trying to work from design requirements rather than just designing on a whim. It is not easy internalizing a brand new design sequence and sometimes I am still getting ahead of myself, but I think In general I have a much more grounded view: I am more focused on deciding WHAT the machine should do rather then HOW it should do it. This is the better place to start. Extra thanks to everyone who are sticking around during this very theoretical phase of the project, I am doing what I think I need to do to make progress! :) M
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Martin needs to decide if the machine is going to be part of the show, or actually become the entire show. There's a huge difference between the two.
Yep martin has fallen back into feature creep i still think that the mmx was the best design he has made and now he is blowing everything out of proportion AGAIN
@@fernadogonzalez2940 There's money to be made in prolonging the problem.
@@thomasbecker9676 this. I have been thinking this since mmx and no one seemed to think it also.
Martin needs to decide if he's a musician or a TH-cam content maker.
@douglascaskey7302 That's not the point I was trying to make, I find that discussion completely meaningless.
The question is:
Is the resulting tour Wintergatan featuring Marble machine, or is it Marble machine featuring Wintergatan?
Be careful when using universal joints to connect angled shafts together. Their output algular velocities are not constant
the universal joints will not survive the engineering stage imo. terrible backlash, innefficient, noisy, weird input-output charecteristics, all things that will almost certantly make them unviable in the final design. but for a sketch they're fine.
@@famitory "Engineering stage?" You think this will get that far?
Double universal joints are set in mirror, so the inconsistency would cancel out. But who knows.
It's probably going to jam and break something
Perhaps he can use cv joints
Sea-sickness mid concert. There is a reason most pedal operated machines have a stationary point. Give the operators somewhere to stand or sit.
If you looked at the blueprint design requirement it was written there.
there will be one.
Seems like the operators could be sitting on bicycle seats and pedaling bicycle cranks and chains. There could even be a derailleur to change ratios.
Once Martin calculates the input energy required for the songs he decides to perform, he might want to take another look at the weight. Maybe if the energy requirement is more than he is comfortable with, he could devise something (an antique cannon, perhaps) that could be ratcheted up into the air by some volunteers, preshow, and it's stored energy tapped into if necessary. 😅
I personally think the performers should be in front of the mechanics... I'm imagining seeing the mechanics through the performers as they're moving around and it sounds incredible.
Solution: make the performers transparent.
Especially if the performers are sometimes just silhouettes with ther lights shining bright on the machine... and of course they can have a song or two where they maybe remove the performers, like a machine solo
I don’t think it’s as big a problem as he thinks especially since most people will see from camera angles anyways.
Would be cool but if the pedal powering system is there in front they couldn't stay away for long. @@tommj4365
Maybe he could put the mechanics higher up. The performers heads could be a bit below the hub. That would probably be easier than putting it stage forward.
It's New Year's Day in year 2,500, and Martin IV reflect on how Grandpa built 23 marble machines in his lifetime, his Dad 37, and his goal is an even 50.
One of the new requirement should be "The Marble Machine must be safe."
I feel like that used to be put aside because it wasn't really an issue but is now becoming my main focus.
A giant flywheel, in the middle, in the front, in live concert ?
I smell an accident. Don't forget security.
I had the same thought. With such a flywheel, an arm and some fingers are easily lost…some transparent acrylic shields or similar could save some important limbs :)
I think we should place the wheel in the middle of the audience, so they can see it even better.
I understand the urge to make the mechanics visible to the audience. Might I suggest designing in some places for permanent mounted GoPros or other small form factor cameras. These cameras could be used in music videos, but also on the world tour to create a video for some large screens on stage to help the audience see better.
That would be super cool actually
I was going to suggest some fixed camera positions focused on interesting parts of the machine that aren't easily viewed by the audience - figured someone must have suggested it already. No matter how much effort goes into creating machine sight lines, most parts of the machine will be tough to view from various audience perspectives.
Add some fixed camera positions along with screen(s) above the machine - display the gearbox cam view up there when changing gears to highlight it, other cameras switched to the screens to show instruments being played, marble conveyor, Huygens drive and flyball governor at work, etc.
Put a "video DJ" panel in the center for Martin to select displays.
Came here to say exactly this!
Yup. Even by the third row nobody will really see the guts of the machine. Big screens are synonymous with concerts. Just display the MM instead of something else. You can magnify the image so that EVERYONE can see then!
This will depend on the venue and the availability of large screens, but apart from that a BIG YES!
This channel is like watching a modern Sisyphus. Frankly shame on me for thinking Martin might have learned from the mistakes he made before.
evolution is some sort of sisyphus
It's basically a scam at this point, to keep the patreons around.
I've been thinking... one of the main design requirements that is not adressed is: will people want to go see that concert?
It's a harsh reality but, the original Marble Machine video is more than 8 years old. To make a world tour once the final machine is complete, you will need to build back all the hype. And where you are going now with a huge machine, you will need big audiences to justify the shipping cost between each show. So the world tour will be limited to places where you still have popularity, and where I live, I will probably won't be able to see it even if I'm a fan.
Building the machine has isolated you into a feedback from engineers only. There is a limit of merging art and engineering where you alienate those who are interested in music. Even if you made a survey now about what your fans want to see, it won't be trustworthy because a lot of fans who liked Wintergatan as a band lost interest. And if you ask me personally: I'd like to see around 3 songs played by a machine, even the best you can imagine. After that I want to see real musicians and maybe have a backstage pass to see the machine up close.
I like the ideas you have, but what you are imagining now will end like the first machine: once finished it will be too big to pass the door.
Also don’t forget: none of his machines in the last 8 years has even produced a song.
I think this is fair and honest feedback.
It's important to see how people respond to what you have so far.
Welcome to the Set Designer Martin arc, hope you enjoy your stay
💀💀💀
This channel is the ultimate overengineering tutorial.
fraud tutorial
@@kumbackquatsta Huh?!
Overengineering is a term made by people with skill issues
Currently he's actually under-engineering I think.
The spectacle kinda is the whole point? It's supposed to be a grossly over-engineered mechanical contraption. The "sensible" thing to do would be play digital sound off of commercial off-the-shelf audio equipment, or ya know, just play instruments normally.
It's been a minute since I've been here. I stopped coming when Martin scrapped the design for the MMX and started over. I just couldn't. Coming here today I had to check if this was an April Fool's joke I missed. It has gotten...bigger. See you in another year, I guess.
Yeah, I kinda feel the same
As a stagehand I would recommend making the machine able to be assembled or disassembled in under an hour. In fact if you plan on touring MM3 I implore you to think about how it loads in and out, how it packs into a truck, and who you want touching it. Tie every design decision back to the load in and out of the machine, you will save a lot of headaches for everyone. Think about how things could fit into standard road cases or pelican cases and what needs to have custom transit equipment. Think about the other elements on stage with you, the lights, sound, atmospherics, automation, laser, pyro or CO2, and everything over in dimmer beach and soundland. They are packed in very specific ways on the truck to ensure driving stability and efficient load in and load outs, so they are loaded and unloaded in that order, having this giant thing in the middle of the stage could increase your in/out times by hours. I don’t know how it works in the EU but in the US and Canada most of your local crew will be union. IATSE has strict rules around working hours and you’ll end up paying a lot to the venue for any extra time worked while trying to maneuver around this machine even if they aren’t touching it so the venue can pay union rates. I would also recommend hiring a technical director to help you in considering all of this. I can’t wait to see MM3 eventually and if you consider these factors that can hopefully be soon.
Not to be negative but i think that one pedal per musician in the center is safer, more controlled and ergonomic, you need a solid base on wich to stand on to pump the pedals with the other foot.
they'd need to put their whole weight on it or pump it like a madman(if gearing was such) anyway. maybe he has downgraded the watts need and amount of balls raised up, but some estimation was 200 watts (that's a professional bicyclist level of output, which divided by 2 makes it a little bit better I suppose but still a lot of work)
Perhaps it would be better to have a line of slaves rowing in unison. I think that’s what they used before electricity. Or maybe just hannes 2000, and that’s why he’s been getting in shape.
@@lasskinn474 200w is good amateur power, pros do 350w+ for long durations.
@@darkiee69 A average person is more like 100W. They are also performing while doing this. Going over 100W per person seems harsh.
It's already on the list.
Martin, you need to take into account safety in your requirements.
Yes! Wrote it to him a few videos ago. This is a serious concern. You can't just have unprotected 2 ton steel wheels standing around. Put your arm between the spokes and its gone. Honestly it feels like a kindergartener playing with a weapon blissfully unaware of the imminent danger🥺
That's what I was thinking too. Big holes moving in circles with a lot of momentum could be bad.
Can a protective mesh be added so limbs do not get caught in the wheels while still allowing the crowd to witness the dramatic clockwork gears?
@@serrademers6047 probably not. it needs to be filled in completely with acrylic or something along these lines
Failure Mode and Effects Analysis
A cast iron flywheel that size will weigh about as much as a transit van (about two metric tons). I really think that this is an element that needs to be looked at. As it stands you might as well get a steam engine / tractor to power the machine. You could tour the steam fairs across Europe.
A flywheel that size is just too damn dangerous when it’s spinning.
Make sure that the pedals are designed safely (ie, wont be able to trap feet between/under the pedals or non-pedal surfaces) - was a bit concerned to see that wasnt in the design requirements
The last prototype pedal he did had protections, im pretty sure he wont forget
Well, the whole drive train better be enclosed in safety glass. Once that enormous fly wheel gets going, the momentum will be deadly if some falls into it.
Guitar solo in front of the mechanicals _is_ _the_ _shot_ for a music video, like the iconic scene from _Metropolis._
I would suggest to explore the vertical disposition.
Setting everything at the floor level and making a kind of platform, up high for the operators, this way you enable you to play in both small and large stages.
Leaving all the heavy gear at the floor level, safe and secure.
Was going to suggest exactly this, as it helps show off the gears, while still making the performers visible as well.
I was about to suggest the opposite, raise the fly wheel above the operators where the typical band logo would be on the backwall.
@@clempocap problem with weight at height above performers if it falls, plus additional parts to chain belts, versus far easier to extend the pumping.
It is is December 5, 2014, and Martin is on the early stages of designing and building the Marble Machine.
It is January 1, 2017, and Martin is on the early stages of designing and building the Marble Machine.
It is May 29, 2024, and Martin is on the early stages of designing and building the Marble Machine.
It's October 8, 2036, and Martin is on the early stages of designing and building the Marble Machine.
The good thing is that no one is or is forced to watch these videos or take the channel into account. If you don't like the path the artist is currently taking, just look away.
Ignoring it is very simple.
@@manuel.heinrich I for my part choose not to look away. Just as I am free to look away, we are all allowed to criticise him. Don't get salty if we do.
@@manuel.heinrich Nah bro. Martin's failures are just as entertaining as his successes. I'm still rooting for him, but I'm gonna criticize all I want too. Years of watching has earned me at least that right.
@sean_miller You found videos that you chose to watch. You earned nothing in the process except maybe some gratitude. Nobody here owes you anything for watching these videos.
I just came back to see where we are now after the MMX was canceled. It's been a while but what the actual heck is going on in here :D What is this madness
I would like to get off Mr Bones Wild Ride... This whole thing is a trainwreck I can't look away from
As someone who's been watching the MM videos since day 1, I have to say I am really starting to lose interest in this project.
I could be in the minority here but what made the MMX machine so enchanting to me was the fact that just some guy built it in his garage basically. It was so enthralling to see daily prototypes and re-engineered parts coming together to form a beautiful piece of machinery. The size was perfect as well with the original and MMX. Until now, every time I've seen the cad model of the giant stage-sized MM I thought it was just a stand in joke until Martin was able to design the real deal. I just don't feel the same enchantment with watching a setup that big that will probably have to be built and moved by a whole team of professional manufacturers vs. a majority plywood music box made by an enthusiastic and talented musician.
As another commenter said, Martin needs to decide if the machine is going to be part of the show, or become the entire show.
I completely agree with you, I have also been following it for several years and the feature I liked the most was its compact size considering the number of instruments it contained.
This seems to me to be a completely different thing, I wouldn't even call it marble machine 3 because it has nothing to do with the previous versions.
I'd be much more impressed with a compact machine with lots of instruments, easy to carry, rather than a mega stage machine
100% agree and well-stated. I'll come back after this latest iteration is operational just to see what he ended up with. Brilliant guy but has lost his compass.
It's been 8 years. I've watched from the start and frankly this recent design seems like lunacy given Martin's pace of delivery.
Tired of it, every time a new video gets posted I don't even watch through it. I just click along the timeline, see it's more faff and find something else to watch. This change is absolutely abysmal and I'm about to unsubscribe.
I mean there used to be marbles.... MMX was a great series. I only came here to read comments, honestly.
pretty gutsy going from a "small" machine to the HUGE machine. cannot even imagine all the things that could go wrong, not to mention trying to haul this thing around the world 😳
I thought the sounds of the original machine (gears turning, levers going ca-chunk) is what made it so cool and it added to the music so much imo I don't think they should be eliminated completely
The previous two machines felt like machines. This is feeling a bit more like a collection of machines, like an assembly line...
Can understand that point, but also understand Martins reasons. When done right this Will also feel like one machine, but for now its still lose compartments.
@@schagerbaantje It won't ever "be done."
average car is dozen machines, but at the end it feel like one.
Every week I lose more and more hope; 1 step forward 2 steps back. This is a never ending process. Dont get me wrong, I love the idea, used to enjoy every videos up to recently and really want this project and Martin to be successful, but hope is at an all time low.
Early in the process of MMX I watched all the time. Really does feel like watching Sisyphus roll a bolder up a hill over and over where he just seems to get completely lost in the sauce every time.
@@MaybeAnnatar Can't scam people on patreon if you actually finish your project.
Martin, please remember that people come to watch the machine, yes, but they are there first for the music and the people there creating it. I would love to se more ways of having the entire band be able to interact with the machine in some way vs just putting the machine out in front for everyone to stare at. The musicians are the core of the experience, the machine is just a tool that helps them create tat experience (even if it is a pretty awesome tool).
What are the safety concerns with open machinery next to performers? Some venues might have insurance issues.
It'll never get built, so no safety concerns.
Putting an acrylic case around all of that would be safe and looking cool
No venue would ever allow it.
Trust me I’m an engineer.
The feature creep is real lol
seems you're chosen to be this videos top comment provider...
Martin - quick suggestion. Use colour-coding to record rotation direction. It is easy to mentally make a mistake and end up with a component rotating in the opposite direction to what you think. For example, green = clockwise, red = anti-clockwise. If you make a mistake, it will be more obvious.
I suggest yellow or blue instead of green, the L letter to be opposite of the R letter (we are using English I think as the language here, other languages would have different names and spelling for those colors that could also give that differentiation similarly).
@@stevebabiak6997 , I suggested red and
green as they are common direction colours. Red indicates left being the anticlockwise direction. Green indicates right being the clockwise direction.
@@briancampbell179 - I understand.
He is already using red and green to identify that which he considers incomplete and completed, so using those colors for more things could be confusing. Even with my earlier color suggestions, the red would need to be different too.
Note: The universal joint doesn't provide constant angular velocity - you need a CV joint for that!
Hello Martin; a suggestion from a Systems Engineer for the visual aesthetics of moving parts...
The requirement definition phase fulfills 2 main functions: giving you a measuring stick for when you're "done" as you well know, but also to save budget. However, since you control that budget, you have some room...
Remember the "fingers" from the Marble Machine 2/X? Those served no purpose but visuals, BUT they also did what engineering eye-candy needs to do: be incapable of causing a failure. You can theorize these nice-to-haves: would you want them, how might they connect, in very broad terms, because only their interface and constraints (below) need to be considered, and you could just design them in your engineering after-party.
You can add visually appealing moving parts, so long as:
A) the need to move them causes no significant strain on the system and the people powering it.
B) A failure in these non-essential parts causes no degraded performance.
C) the cost of time, energy, and money to design and build these stays within the project money/time budget.
If the connection to the drive train is simple and the interface solves the issue of breaking away during a failure, you can design multiples of these to change the look based on venue or tour.
Also if you made it this far into my comment...
If you made the controls vertical, so they could be operated from the "front" of the controls as well as the "back" of the controls, you could have some musicians standing above the marble cascade on a slightly elevated platform. The "waterfall" of marbles is still a neat effect behind 1 person, and the bottom cascade would almost look like playing above a marble river. This would at least give some freedom of controlling what is visually blocked per song, with the trade-off being the operator has to understand the levers are different. Since you're learning movements per song, I believe this type of muscle memory per song would develop easily, so long as you consistently use the same positioning consistent with the same song... Inconsistency in this will eventually lead to operator mistakes.
Also take heart with the design requirements. They are boring and almost always feel wrong at first, and it frustrates a lot of new engineers. But done well it makes the implementation butter smooth, and any engineer that has seen late-project issues will get frission when everything unfolds quickly and smoothly. For me it was my moment when I realized "wax on, wax off" wasn't just a chore, but a path to let things flow smoothly later.
It will make you hate things you miss in the requirements phase with with a passion though.
thanks for the insight
I feel like these videos are just the source material for the eventual documentary about the man who designed a contraption for decades until he died of old age without ever realizing his dream
I am not sure how your going to be able to make that pedal system workable and safe. You could easily trap your foot and you're not on steady ground at any point.
This, I was thinking the exact same thing, and with a flywheel that big, you'd be liable to loosing an entire limb if you got stuck in the mechanics. Ntm the torque in the system must large if your trying to run all that stuff. Itd be like trying to hand start a semi.
Flywheel and Pedal are only connected one way through the huygens drive.
I thought exactly the same after last video, when he introduced the way bigger wheel....
Just put a shroud around the linkages so it's impossible to get your foot underneath.
You will need to physically separate the moving parts and your limbs, by a guard (fence, wall, polycarbonate, etc.). Otherwise you simply will not be allowed to operate this machine. Don't forget this.
Hey Martin. I just want make sure, that you know, that driveshaft (Cardan shaft) didn't pass rotation uniformly in case of big angles. Bigger angle - bigger rotation variation. So you may have problems with tight music because of it
Amen!!! But seems that Martin is not listening from that ear...
Oh no, you mentioned the 't' word. Please use with caution or you'll stir Martin up to return to the early design stage 't' word use frequency 😮
Maybe some safety requirements are prudent now too? ^^
Big spinny danger wheel - where to put it so no limbs get chopped off?
The pedals are also dangerous the programing drum in an of itself is already a danger at this rate he is going to be lucky if he doesnt break his dominant hand irreparably
It’s not a good show unless someone looses a limb
Won't matter... it's become obvious that Martin is just a TH-camr and not a musician... the money is in the never ending design, and not actually touring.
@@douglascaskey7302 Hi. Please have a nice day. Life must not treat you well, but i hope you can soon have a better time. Cheers!
@@douglascaskey7302 He's literally been designing this thing for a few months, that's nothing for a big project like this. Honestly I'd argue that he's going too fast.
Here we go again, I feel like Martin forgets what was already done earlier and with each new step goes back to redo the previous steps. I felt like the general scene positioning was already done and it was correct because machine is not the show machine is part of the show. Also you need to remember about safety the huge moving parts have a lot of energy in so they need to have some protection from the audience and from the performers. Someones hand crushed by the flywheel will not make the show better.
No, it will be "MEGA BETTER" 💪
Seriously though. I'm glad I'm not the only one growing weary of this backtracking just to backtrack just to forward...back track again
@@k1dfr0std How can you tell if someone's NOT an engineer? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
@@josephbasile7978 RIGHT? Every real engineer over ever known tell me to shut it when I try to reveal that - "SHHHH! I don't need this extra _insert everything here_. I've got enough to deal with."
@@k1dfr0std We've been around for ages, but the cult overwhelms our voices.
If your mechanical system is storing x amount of energy and can output y amount of power, the bigger the system is, the safer is it, because all your rpms go down drastically.
Making everything smaller also requires much tighter sealing and shielding. If you have a 1.5m fly wheel: put a railing at arm's length around it, no need to make it finger tight; whereas if you have a 30cm flywheel storing the same amount of energy: you're going to have to put it in an enclosed box and that thing could still destroy the box in case the axle fails.
10:51 "This is this weeks new generation. " Tune in next week for another new generation.
He said in the last video he was going to iterate generations intentionally. Not sure why you are now surprised.
Yeah that's how the design process works. No one gets it right on the first try.
The audience in the CAD drawing should all have a phone on one hand.
Lift the gear box up above the centre line of the flywheel.
"Lift the gear box up above the centre line of the flywheel." Came here to say this.
8:25 Musician + Instrument vs Conductor + (self-playing) Instument
As a non-musician, those are the vibes I get from these two variations. Both of which have their merits, I think
Musician + Instrument is what I want to see. That was the magic of the first marble machine, man + machine
Hey Martin! Have you considered casting a huge shadow of the moving mechanics behind the players, so it gives the perspective of being the centerpiece no matter what! Lol
I feel like the Marble Machine is just going to look & act like a big piece of set decoration this way. In this scale, its just not a music instrument anymore. The MMX was perfect sized, it could be pretty easily moved and played by one person. You could see the beautiful mechanics ánd the artist performing in one glance. The marbles, which are kind of the main focus, were in harmony with the size of the machine. This is just too big, too ambitious, and just for show. Nobody will see or be able to follow a single Marble in a giant system like this. sooo many separate pieces that need to be perfectly connected every time. In my opinion it should be one unit, playable by one artist, moveable by pallet jack. You can still put all the beautiful mechanics ánd features in a smaller package. And lets be honest.. are you ever in your life quickly going to jam or compose on an instrument that takes 4 people 2 hrs to set up and take up 40 m2 of space? No.
For the drive train, why not raise it by ~1 meter? That would still keep both the control booth and flywheel in the center line, make the flywheel more visible, and also use it as a backdrop behind the control booth. seems like a win-win to me.
This literally looks like my 6 year old sons Lego designs every time he gets his hands on a bucket of gears.
Starts of with a few things that works well. But it soon consists of 50 different gears, belts etc that requires more power than the gears driving next gears can ever provide.
Having this monstrosity powered only with some pedals, I have a real hard time seeing that work.
It is gravity powered via a heavy weight. The pedals raise the weight back up higher.
@@billkeithchannel Yes, but you will still need to input all the power that the machine needs in order to keep it going, via pedals.
The weights are only to keep the tempo steady.
@@billkeithchannel You've never taken a physics course, have you?
@@jesperahman738 I don't recall a video where Martin says this. From what I watched he is expecting all the power to come from that weight. If you are right, then he is going to need a hand crank with a manual transmission gearing to get it up to speed for the weight to take over.
*@Wintergatan*
2:54 You should also consider: *No pedals* (up/down),
*instead use "bike pedals"* (around), they already creates a rotational energy (instead of back-&-forth energy that needs to be converted into rotational energy).
In that way you don't need some ratcheting system (that probably will be noisy).
Make the pedals a see-saw. Put the fulcrum centered under the operator. The operator can sway side to side to power the mechanism.
Or have two musicians bopping up and down with the music ;)
Took a break and just came back to your channel. I’m so happy to see you still making this marble dream possible instead of giving up. Keep it up your amazing.
Wait until Martin realises that all those heavy flywheels and mechanisms need to be supported by something and not just floating in mid-air.
Absolutely true 💯
I feel like this project has taken a rocket ship and blasted off on a mission to the deep weeds of overengineering a machine feature creep machine which can't play music.
I'd say less "blasted off" and more exploded on the pad.
Its a bit early to think about, but keep in mind that you can project cool camera-angles and mechanical close-ups on screens behind/above the machine in most concert venues.
Looking amazing! Fully agree that the mechanicals should not be hidden away. Big part of what made the viral music machine video so mesmerizing was the *interaction* between the operator and the machine. The choreographed dance of cranking and switching levers. I guess in a way you could consider the operator as part of the mechanicals. There's just so many brilliant stars on the stage, the marbles, the operator, the gears, the lever controls, that it's really hard to pin down which one can be hidden without losing some of the magic.
I agree. I think he needs more levers and pedals to handle, more moving parts and input required. I see a risk in it becoming just an elaborate background track for the band, rather than a dynamic instrument that's an integral part of the music and the show.
Martin, in your requirements, consider providing each unknown / variable parameter with its own symbol. Mf for mass of flywheel, or Igr for Input gear ratio etc. Avoid using the same letter, such as X for multiple items. Later, define each symbol so that a change to the symbol definition updates the text of the requirement accordingly.
Martin, what if instead of moving the controls and performers to the side of the machine, you raise the drive components up on a platform so they can more easily be seen. This way they would appear to be more of a focal point, as they would be higher than the performers, and less like a backdrop that the performers are standing in front of.
would look cool. you might have roadie backlash with positioning heavy parts above ground level week after week.
I'm a bit concerned about uneven surfaces with the pedals. Especially if the operators are moving around in the control station.
There is a requirement for a stable platform for the players to rest on on the list. He doesn't mention it.
Someone is going to get hurt by that massive flywheel. Calling it now
Again, where did this maximum virtual product come from? MVP means minimum viable product, ie. the bare minimum needed to make the concept work...
From "How big things get done"
@@axiom1650 oh sweet irony...
Go watch that video. Maximum virtual product is about iterating quickly in simulations to solve problems before the come up at full scale. CAD, design requirements documents, prototypes or a physical model all let martin decide what the machine looks like & what it needs to do before he starts fabricating parts for the touring version, where mistakes or design changes are A LOT more costly & time consuming to fix.
@@rev_dude Do you actually think Marty has any hope or desire to make this thing?
I do not mean this to offend in any way. I hope this is not taken as insulting. I learned a lot on this channel and enjoyed the previous builds very much, but I feel like the soul of this project died with the MMX. It's reflected in the videos too.
you could raise the whole middle contraption to be over the top. it would resemble a organ in a sort of way
7:33 - whether belts or chains, they can “pop”, that’s why guards are put into place to protect people from the items flying after they pop.
This thing getting more and more complicated, I don't know if it would ever finished in his lifetime
Feeeeaaaature creeeeep! lol
I don't buy it. There's no way anyone can seriously think something this dangerous is viable. I only see two possible futures for this project, fakery or virtualised.
Don't forget to add safety considerations to the design. That's a HUGE flywheel with open spokes and is just begging for some limbs to be inserted.
Marble Machine iteration 732: “oh! Wouldn’t it be cool to have marbles launch /through/ the flywheel, over the heads of the band, /at/ the audience, in a beautiful cascade?!”
Governor needs to move further to the left. It's going to hit the fly-wheel when it starts to spin.
What I think is missing from the machine are rods, one of the reasons why I love the MMX is the presence of eccentric rods powering the marble elevator. Last time you said that the industrial revolution is one of your inspirations, therefore rods are an essential part of a good looking machine and any machine from the 19th century, just look at the stationary mill engines and steam locomotives.
Martin raise the flywheel ABOVE the control station! Best of both worlds, the clockwork stuff is visible above and behind the operators, it would be epic!
An idea would be making a solid bridge over the marble exiting slopes. Put your round control area on top. With your audience under you, the height wouldn't need to be too tall. Or simply just raise your control area and, instead of a flat bottom, have the bottom curve as to match the wheel. I think it would be even cooler with the control area becoming a control tower. Also, putting the drivetrain in front and raising the control area behind it could be a potential solution, getting great video angles with the gears in front seem likely. Love your vids, keep em coming!
I used to be exited for Wintergatan updates, now its just «ugh.. another ‘generation’ of overcomplicated, prolonged dwelve into madness from Martin who is wondering if he’s a musician or a youtuber with fake goals»
This must be the world's most committed Kickstarter scam
You will need a fence around all these rotating parts, especially the flywheel! The open transmission system and the big programming wheels are also not harmless.
Oh yeah it's all coming together. I am so excited I cannot wait for the final product!
I love the red and silver look, instantly reminds me of steam locomotives.
One thing I just thought about, how can these gigantic spoked flywheels be safe for the crew? I feel like they could easily snap someone's neck if they happen to fall inside.
I just assume clear acrylic to fill them in. It'll look the same, but prevent trapping limbs, will add minimal weight or cost and be easy to assemble. Can even swap in clear or frosted for effect.
Can the giant flywheel and mechanics become the drivetrain weight?
What if you pedal to RAISE the entire mechanics out from behind of you, then have it power itself, so to speak?
Really cool idea and i kinda love it, but I fear it would be nightmare to assemble and this whole thing adds more complexity to already stupidly complex project
Hi Martin. I work in aerospace. When we write design requirements, the auxiliary verb used has specific meanings.
'Shall' denotes a mandatory requirement.
'Should' denotes a recommendation or advice on implementing the requirement.
'Must' denotes a regulatory requirement (probably not applicable for you unless maybe there is a safety standard you want to include)
'May' denotes a permissible practice or action.
The syntax of a requirement must be "The [subject] shall [performance limits] when [ operating conditions]"
Example: The flywheel shall maintain constant speed within ± .01% when up to 15 channels are activated simultaneously.
Raise the whole flywheel mechanism up by 1.5-2 meters. Yes, that means you can't perform in places where there is not, say, 3.5 metes of clearance above the stage area... but I don't know ANY music venue that can accommodate 100 or more people, where that is NOT the case.
I figured it out. The reason Martin will never finish this project: He is *incapable* of compromise. He laments that his layout has two cool things that fundamentally interfere with each other, "ketchup and ice cream" as he called them. He was **so close** to figuring it out, but instead he insists there must be solution to have both when the right answer is to PICK ONE, but more importantly, DISCARD THE OTHER.
No one wants to eat a ketchup and ice cream sandwich.
Also, there's money to be made in prolonging the problem.
@@thomasbecker9676 I started to get that feeling with the MMX. According to the Wayback Machine the Wintergatan channel had just 7k subscribers when the original Marble Machine video dropped, it now has 2.6 million. Martin has achieved far more fame (and dare I say income) since then than he ever had, and possibly ever would, with Wintergatan alone. I'm starting to suspect he's fully aware of this and, as you say, this machine, like the MMX, will never be finished because of that.
@@DJShadesUK His engagement is terrible relative to his sub count.
Amazing!!
8:00 "...ahh this is a bit of a shame... "
The severed limb thrown into the audience ? I'd say so yeah
Please design a spring applied emergency brake into the flywheel. I hope you never have to hit the big red button but when you save someone from losing their arm you’ll be glad you have it.
Looks good! Just bring the smaller mechanics up to like headheight so you can make selfies with it 😂
I haven't checked in in a while and wtf is going on
I likes this video, condenced, to the point.
Tack Martin!
I am looking forward to this project!
i am so sorry for this project,but to me it sounds lika a never ending story never going to be finished.
You should use something similar to the mainspring and barrel winding mechanism in automatic watches. Rachet-style.
You can costume an operator, but the physics needs to be real. ❤️
The band just needs to be raised higher and behind the mechanics. BOOM
The downside of that is you have to construct a giant stage on top of the stage you're performing on every time you set the thing up. It would make it basically impossible to tour with given the manpower he has at his disposal.
so here we go again, another design that will end with a half made machine
Half? You're optimistic.
You can see classic avoidance patterns here. We've explained to Martin 10,000 times how an MVP works, why you need to prove out individual channels and concepts at a small scale before expanding your vision. He continues to do everything EXCEPT what he should be doing.
Martin, build a single-channel marble machine that plays a single drum head, while following first design principles, etc. Until you prove that, everything else is a pointless waste of time.
He did that whole prototyping stage
Yeah he already did that with 3d prints!! huygen drive and governor and marble gate.
@@innertuber4049 Lol, he's done next to no real prototyping.
@@thomasbecker9676 I still don't know why you watch these videos 😂
You're a local legend!
@@innertuber4049 Who are you?
You could raise the flywheels up. If the axle is athe height of your head and the smaller flywheel perhaps a little higher, both the operators and the mechanics are visible centre stage
A true role model for the youth of today! FACT!
Cheers! - Judson & Buddy! - God Bless You ALL!!! :-)
that moving floor looks very dangerous, the operators could easily get their feet stuck in there
When using universal joints the rotational velocity is not constant if the input and output shafts are not parallel
Спасибо, что всё ещё выкладываешь ролики! Твоя музыка - бальзам для наших ушей
If you're set on universal joints, try using CV (constant velocity) joints instead. Universal joints create a varying output speed from a constant input speed.
This project has officially lost all of the charm of the original concept.
@Wintergatan MUST have a dancefloor that uses the audience dancing or jumping to powers the flywheel !!!
Maybe World Tour 1 is just Martin and a machine. If that goes well, it can then be transformed to this huge full band experience for World Tour 2? Get the smaller one working in practice, then expand?
Set cameras for alternating close up views of the mechanisms. Project on screen above and behind. It lets all the audience experience the wonders of the marble machine.
What Martin really needs is a therapist.
Indeed. He has clearly lost his marbles.