Having spent over a decade on electric BASS, I relate completely to this new view on double bass quite naturally . I will normally play in any key in two places , playing through an exercise in half position and then saying OK take it up the neck and also play the same exercise . Pizz then bow. I agree if you never move out of half position and burn up and down the G string, you're wasting energy. It remains to be seen how accurate your intonation is if you play across the strings above C on the E string .
Simandl as-is works to build your foundation, as long as you’re doing it your way. I had an instructor who insisted I use the bow for all these pages, and would halt me with any tiny error. I could never develop any sort of flow. Problem is I started that with him when I was 59 years old. I do not have time in my life to become proficient with the bow; I need to just get the fingers on both hands working correctly for pizzicato playing, and I need to grasp the harmonic concepts so I can improvise well. So I abandoned the instructor, and have been doing the Simandl exercises pizzicato. I work on the bow separately (using Simandl of course), so I can at least play simple passages with some confidence.
Ron Carter is a staunch proponent of playing horizontally across the strings, in higher regions of the fretboard. There are many similarities with what he teaches, and what I'm seeing here. When I first heard him talking about it and how it reduced having to shift all up and down the fretboard, I thought, "Man! That's for me! Although, he never mentions Simandl.
It's great to see how Ron navigates the fingerboard. I have fond memories of him performing a solo recital at a recent International Society of Bassists Convention.
I'm that strange Duck who tunes thesl bass in 5ths. I got to go through all this now and see just exactly what of this is useful for me. But it's going to be interesting. I enjoyed this show thank you very much
Reminds me of the 3rd (?) movement of the Brahms Requiem that is entirely in half position with no alternative fingering. We call that the "Tendonitis Movement"
WOW. Why didn't I think about it in that way? It's obvious, and it's the same approach I'm using on my bass guitar. The only thing I'm not into is intonation, it's much harder to be in tune in higher positions, but it's ONLY about practicing. It's not harder to intonate in higher positions, it's a matter of experience of being in that position. Really cool approach. Also, I have some trouble bowing horizontally over the strings, when I move to another string, I need to take note by the left hand a little bit earlier to put the bow to the already downed string. If I don't do that I will change the bow to the string and after that, it could dramatically go down, the higher the position the bigger the difference in the height comparing the open string and the pushed one. I'm new to bowing, so moving to another string on high positions should be practicing in any case, so more experienced bassist could use the Simandl approach more easily. I'm going to practice with bigger motivation)))
Great video! I use those"new"fingerings all the time Maybe one historical reason of the Simandl( or Nanny) approach is that those methods were written at a time when bass players had to deal with gut strings and probably high action and set ups that made it difficult to get a good arco sound in higher position on the E and A strings, and some of the D string. Modern strings and setups have changed that to some extent.... what do you think?
Cool, good idea, any method that gets you playing in 3rd and 4th on the E & A is a good work out. Is no one going to talk about the intonation that the open strings highlight? It seems glaring to me, over time these exercises will hopefully help make that tuning better.
The cool thing with this book is that it shows both options. If it were me, I’d try both the traditional positions and Cole’s reimagined ones. Cole’s are great for opening up register for jazz, and the traditional ones are good for nuts & bolts low position intonation.
I think it can actually sound better too, mixing open strings with notes of a shorter scale length up the neck, maybe it’s the contrast of different harmonic overtones going on, regardless it looks like a practical reinvention for sure, exciting stuff for newbies and experienced bassists alike I would think, The New Simandl…
Notes have to be chosen for a reason, one open string note in a passage of stopped notes can sound terrible ,context is so important a good foundation is built by a good teacher
@@MargaretLeonard-gw8rp Absolutely, context is key. It really depends on the genre as well. I remember seeing Missy Raines Trio featuring George Jackson and Ben Garnett with my classical double bass teacher, he noted how though her technique wasn’t correct, at least to the Czech school of double bass he teaches, it still worked for her & thus was ok in that context. And as much as I’m glad I’ve learned some technique from a classical tutor, I’m happier still my musical foundation comes from growing up and singing in Revival Centre Church, then learning guitar, and bass guitar & finally double bass, still singing & supporting singers. It taught me to value listening to myself & others first, before sight reading, helps free one from playing or even learning to play just by rote & now with phones to easily record and listen back, it’s a great time to learn an instrument.
Gave up playing upright years ago after getting my jazz performance degree. I was tired, frustrated and jaded. Been playing solely electric bass but have really started to miss the upright. This looks like my entry point back in. 😁
11:50 Pessimist: In jazz half the notes wrong. Optimistic: Half the notes are right! Larry Grenadier gave one of the best summaries for understanding the fretboard. Roughly speaking he said you need to be able to play every scale pattern and arpeggio up and down every string in every way possible so you always have notes available at any position you are in to play whatever idea comes to you. As a person who only has been playing upright for about 5 years that is a huge challenge (a lifetime of work) but I have found that by working on this a bit everyday the more you do it the easier it gets. (big surprise). One supplemental exercise I found helpful to get used to finding good notes up the fretboard is to pick one key, restrict the position range you are going to play in, put on a backing track for that key, and try improvising simple melodies within that key for several minutes to try and discover how to access some of your goto phrases or create new phrases. Then try a different position. Then maybe loosen the restrictions and target going from half position to a specific position and then finding a way back to the half position. I found this to be a fun supplement to the rigorous pure scale approach, though it's a bit less methodical and you probably need to do the methodical approach as a starting point to work out the transitions and fingerings. Another exercise is restricting your fingering position range and doing a jazz blues walking line for each key. Then loosen the restriction to go from half position up to that position and park there for a while before going back down. Or doing a iv-ii-V-I walking line.
Nothing really new here. I started by electric bass and when I self learnt double bass I kept playing by minimizing shifting along the neck. I actually find shifting exercices quite boring 😀
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Having spent over a decade on electric BASS, I relate completely to this new view on double bass quite naturally . I will normally play in any key in two places , playing through an exercise in half position and then saying OK take it up the neck and also play the same exercise . Pizz then bow. I agree if you never move out of half position and burn up and down the G string, you're wasting energy. It remains to be seen how accurate your intonation is if you play across the strings above C on the E string .
Nice-thanks for sharing!
Simandl as-is works to build your foundation, as long as you’re doing it your way. I had an instructor who insisted I use the bow for all these pages, and would halt me with any tiny error. I could never develop any sort of flow. Problem is I started that with him when I was 59 years old. I do not have time in my life to become proficient with the bow; I need to just get the fingers on both hands working correctly for pizzicato playing, and I need to grasp the harmonic concepts so I can improvise well. So I abandoned the instructor, and have been doing the Simandl exercises pizzicato. I work on the bow separately (using Simandl of course), so I can at least play simple passages with some confidence.
Thanks for sharing this!
Ron Carter is a staunch proponent of playing horizontally across the strings, in higher regions of the fretboard. There are many similarities with what he teaches, and what I'm seeing here. When I first heard him talking about it and how it reduced having to shift all up and down the fretboard, I thought, "Man! That's for me! Although, he never mentions Simandl.
It's great to see how Ron navigates the fingerboard. I have fond memories of him performing a solo recital at a recent International Society of Bassists Convention.
@@doublebasshq
Speaking of which, will you be in attendance at UofM this June?
I'm that strange Duck who tunes thesl bass in 5ths. I got to go through all this now and see just exactly what of this is useful for me. But it's going to be interesting. I enjoyed this show thank you very much
Reminds me of the 3rd (?) movement of the Brahms Requiem that is entirely in half position with no alternative fingering. We call that the "Tendonitis Movement"
"Tendonitis Movement" - I love it!
WOW. Why didn't I think about it in that way? It's obvious, and it's the same approach I'm using on my bass guitar. The only thing I'm not into is intonation, it's much harder to be in tune in higher positions, but it's ONLY about practicing. It's not harder to intonate in higher positions, it's a matter of experience of being in that position. Really cool approach.
Also, I have some trouble bowing horizontally over the strings, when I move to another string, I need to take note by the left hand a little bit earlier to put the bow to the already downed string. If I don't do that I will change the bow to the string and after that, it could dramatically go down, the higher the position the bigger the difference in the height comparing the open string and the pushed one. I'm new to bowing, so moving to another string on high positions should be practicing in any case, so more experienced bassist could use the Simandl approach more easily. I'm going to practice with bigger motivation)))
So cool! Can’t wait to get a copy and dig in! This is such a great concept!
Hope you enjoy it!
Great stuff! Been running my students in drills like this for a while. Definitely going to get this book!
Fantastic--thanks, Adam!
well hello dr booker, crazy seeing you here lol
@@michaelstratfordbass, but of course! Mr. Heath and I go back a bit!
Interesting! I'm just new to the bass, but I can already see that this would be hugely helpful down the line.
Glad it was helpful! Welcome to the world of the bass-it’s a great instrument!
Great video! I use those"new"fingerings all the time
Maybe one historical reason of the Simandl( or Nanny) approach is that those methods were written at a time when bass players had to deal with gut strings and probably high action and set ups that made it difficult to get a good arco sound in higher position on the E and A strings, and some of the D string.
Modern strings and setups have changed that to some extent.... what do you think?
Yeah, good point! I'll bet the setup had a lot to do with it, actually.
Cool, good idea, any method that gets you playing in 3rd and 4th on the E & A is a good work out. Is no one going to talk about the intonation that the open strings highlight? It seems glaring to me, over time these exercises will hopefully help make that tuning better.
Good point!
I originally didn't know what the other positions were thank you Simandl.....thank you Mr. Cole
I love that Cole did this!
Should I be practising both the old and the new method? Because the book showcases both options throughout.
The cool thing with this book is that it shows both options. If it were me, I’d try both the traditional positions and Cole’s reimagined ones. Cole’s are great for opening up register for jazz, and the traditional ones are good for nuts & bolts low position intonation.
I think it can actually sound better too, mixing open strings with notes of a shorter scale length up the neck, maybe it’s the contrast of different harmonic overtones going on, regardless it looks like a practical reinvention for sure, exciting stuff for newbies and experienced bassists alike I would think, The New Simandl…
Good point!
Notes have to be chosen for a reason, one open string note in a passage of stopped notes can sound terrible ,context is so important a good foundation is built by a good teacher
@@MargaretLeonard-gw8rp Absolutely, context is key. It really depends on the genre as well. I remember seeing Missy Raines Trio featuring George Jackson and Ben Garnett with my classical double bass teacher, he noted how though her technique wasn’t correct, at least to the Czech school of double bass he teaches, it still worked for her & thus was ok in that context. And as much as I’m glad I’ve learned some technique from a classical tutor, I’m happier still my musical foundation comes from growing up and singing in Revival Centre Church, then learning guitar, and bass guitar & finally double bass, still singing & supporting singers. It taught me to value listening to myself & others first, before sight reading, helps free one from playing or even learning to play just by rote & now with phones to easily record and listen back, it’s a great time to learn an instrument.
Gave up playing upright years ago after getting my jazz performance degree. I was tired, frustrated and jaded. Been playing solely electric bass but have really started to miss the upright. This looks like my entry point back in. 😁
Welcome back to the "upright club!"
You can do it!
11:50 Pessimist: In jazz half the notes wrong. Optimistic: Half the notes are right! Larry Grenadier gave one of the best summaries for understanding the fretboard. Roughly speaking he said you need to be able to play every scale pattern and arpeggio up and down every string in every way possible so you always have notes available at any position you are in to play whatever idea comes to you. As a person who only has been playing upright for about 5 years that is a huge challenge (a lifetime of work) but I have found that by working on this a bit everyday the more you do it the easier it gets. (big surprise). One supplemental exercise I found helpful to get used to finding good notes up the fretboard is to pick one key, restrict the position range you are going to play in, put on a backing track for that key, and try improvising simple melodies within that key for several minutes to try and discover how to access some of your goto phrases or create new phrases. Then try a different position. Then maybe loosen the restrictions and target going from half position to a specific position and then finding a way back to the half position. I found this to be a fun supplement to the rigorous pure scale approach, though it's a bit less methodical and you probably need to do the methodical approach as a starting point to work out the transitions and fingerings. Another exercise is restricting your fingering position range and doing a jazz blues walking line for each key. Then loosen the restriction to go from half position up to that position and park there for a while before going back down. Or doing a iv-ii-V-I walking line.
Larry's a good person for some perspective on this--thanks for sharing!
Nothing really new here. I started by electric bass and when I self learnt double bass I kept playing by minimizing shifting along the neck. I actually find shifting exercices quite boring 😀
If it's boring... its not for you
Is just me who can't open the link to buy a copy?
The link is working on our end--here's it is again for you just in case: shop.doublebasshq.com/products/the-new-simandl
@@doublebasshq thanks working fine now, probably some internet problem on my end
Your kind of playing like a bass guitar would play 😮
Hmm….. “in Jazz half the notes are wrong anyway” interesting !!!!!
nobody likes playing in F#M