I occasionally watch cap and ball utube videos for my own enjoyment - I have watched dozens. It is very rarely I see one that actually says something new and helpful. Your discussion of cap and ball bolt wear was new and helpful - I thank you for it. Some time ago I subscribed to you channel, this sort of thing is why. Most utube videos are introductory videos and basically the same thing over and over - I really appreciate the new stuff.
Now I know what all those parts I've been cleaning actually do. You can see why Mr Colt took a few years to perfect the mechanism. Great video. Many thanks
Yes, that cam action to lock the cylinder, and then to release it is pretty amazing from my level of mechanics. Understanding the concept was tuff enough. Appreciate your comments Kev. O.R.
another good video ranger.i started out about a year ago buying a uberti new navy.now I'm waiting to recieve gun number 15.but buying revolvers is one thg thing,expertise is another.i wont have the hobby mastered until I can find old parts guns and fix them up.as well as making caps,powder and ball.keep the educational videos coming.
Outstanding informational video Old Ranger. This clears up the mistory of how the tapered stub on the hammer works with the bolt for notch positions. 🇺🇸
I have searched this topic a plethora of times over recent months and yet randomly today it shows up in my feed. Subd. TH-cam used to be an amazing platform...
I really have no idea of how it works. I have not selected the option to have advertising, and suspect that possibly that could affect what they do (or do not) with my videos. Anyway, hope the info here was useful. Thanks for the Sub. O.R.
great video i work on all my firearms myself ,,,now against the law in fascist australia ,this was absolutely so useful to me , i'm assuming theres several issues that cause that score line on cylinder before lock up , i'd never considered each step that each part takes , i just blamed the bolt ,,more to think of , thanks for sharing , cheers big ears from downunder
Great to hear from you. I've used Single Actions for longer than I care to relate, and never gave it much thought either. Just figured it was bound to happen with use. Yes, that is true, but its got more to do with rotating the cylinder by hand when the bolt is against the cylinder. Seems there are times when this is necessary, can't think of the example right now, but drawing back the hammer to rotate the cylinder will lower the bolt off the cylinder (in most cases), and then the hand will do the rotation. Cylinder drag marks aren't the worst thing of course, but I think lots of folks blame timing for this, when it probably has other causes. Thanks for the comment. O.R.
Have a couple more in mind. I have some comments to make on the gun in the "Cody" museum that is said to have belonged to "Wild Bill". Also want to do one on common parts that bust in many single actions and how to tell what might be wrong without taking it apart. Sound interesting, let me know. O.R.
I got a black powder 1851 pietta navy revolver chambered in 44 caliber. On a couple of the chambers, when I cock the hammer it will be met with a bit of resistance and then release and over-rotate or simply not click into place. Any idea what this might be?
Not sure I can be of much help, but when you say a couple of chambers, can you tell if it is the same ones, or is it more random and happens a couple times or so on each rotation? So, it pulls hard, and then goes fast when the resistance releases and it over rotates. O.R.
Thank you good video. Care to show any tips on how to smooth up the percussion revolvers? Would be as good reason to stay out of the snow and make another good video at the same time.
Thanks. Actually thinking about something like that. Do have a couple more in mind. One is on the gun in the Cody Museum that's claimed to belong to Wild Bill. Doing some homework now on that and a couple more ideas. Always good to get new ideas, thanks again. O.R.
With this video I managed to understand and fix a bit of a timing issue that, to my great dismay, developed after the first disassembly of my brand new Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Yank .36: at full cock the cylinder wanted to rotate further than it had any reason to, and it traveled back when I pulled the trigger. I panicked just a little, then I noticed my bolt wasn't fully rising up (eh!), so I checked the bolt spring screw and it was way too loose; I tightened it (but not too much), and now everything works better than ever. Phew!
Thank You very much for Your video's. This one was especially. I have a couple 1st. gen. SAA Colts in very good condition, one is timed ok, but has 457 chamber mouths, and 452 barrel. The other one functions, and shoots very well, but The bolt drags, and the cylinder shows it. After watching this, I have a better understanding of how to try to remedy the problem. That is if i can find gen.1 parts. These Guns were made in 1886 and 89, I shoot them carefully and not very much. Cheers!
Thanks. I'm sure not familiar with those age guns, but its possible that more modern parts may fit, especially with some mods. There could be some information on a colt SAA forum as far as who might have parts. My brother used to get parts from a John Sueth, (may not be spelled right), he was recommended by E. Keith, but that was back in the 70's. O.R.
The cylinder stop/ trigger spring broke on my 1860 army, but I noticed it was the short arm that broke so I made a new "short arm from a spring clip and put it in with the remaining trigger arm and it worked beautifully.
This is a very simple and problem free action, but many are ruined by people without knowledge of the function, grinding and filing trying to lighten the trigger pull, alter the timing and "tuning" the action, they usually give up after buggering it up and sell the gun on, the only mystery to me is why Colt decided to change the grp frame size from the, "normal" size of the 1860, to the too small size of the 1873, I have fitted 1860 grip frames on my 1873 and it is much better. Stay safe ! Chris B.
My feelings exactly. Sadly I have been one that was too anxious to get out the butchering tools without thinking. That was way before the internet. Living next to the arctic there were no neighbors or friends I knew of that could help. So, I did stuff that I was sorry for. Fortunately at the time that I bored out two cylinders on 2nd generation 51's with a drill press and a 380 bit with the hope they would group better, was at that time also to order new ones because Colt was making their signature series and stamped the correct serial numbers in the replacements. Replaced fronts with higher ones, ground off hammers, etc. Live and learn. So that's my confession. One reason for a video like this in the hope that some will view it and get a better understanding before getting out the stones and files. Thanks, always enjoy hearing. That is a mystery. Possibly because the 51 was so popular. We'll never know. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Yes, it is very easy for me to criticise others for "butchering" their firearms, but there is a certain fever that takes over, and without reference to good publications or a history of engineering principles, it is easy to go down the wrong path, even now, with the internet, there is so much bad information that unless you already know the function, you could go along the wrong path, there are many channels on youtube that advocate really bad practices, so when a good channel like this surfaces it is illuminating, rather than confusing, even many gunsmiths do not truly understand the workings of this design , as I do not understand the workings of an AR 15, to each his own! Stay safe! Chris B.
For your 2nd generation Colt and the Single Action Army Colt clones, do you think the cylinder latches/registers into the firing position before the hammer reaches the full cock position or after the full cock position? In other words, if you are ever so careful to stop pulling the hammer back at the very moment that the trigger sear engages into the full cock hammer notch, is the cylinder bolt fully engaged and registered into the cylinder location notch. If not, how far off is the alignment? Unfortunately, I don't own an SAA but plan to in the near future. From looking through some of the drawing and videos, I would have guessed that one would expect to hear 5 clicks: 1.) trigger sear snaps into hammer safety notch 2.) ltrigger sear snaps into hammer load notch 3.) cylinder bolt is released in preparation to capture the cylinder location notch 4.) cylinder bolt locates into cylinder registration notch 5.) trigger sear snaps into hammer full cock notch
Yes, 5 for the SAA. According to Jerry Kuhnhausen in his shop manual,, “In a perfectly timed Colt S.A.A. Revolver, bolt and full cock sear engagement occur at virtually the same time. Hence the single audible 4th click.” So five for most where the sear drops into the cock notch just before the bolt clicks as it locks the cylinder, four if “perfectly” timed. The percussion guns lack the first (quarter) notch in the hammer, so there would be only three clicks instead of four. Looks to me you have done your homework on this, especially without owning one. Congrats. O.R.
Thank you for your reply. For the case of an SAA that was not perfectly timed, where the cylinder bolt had not yet fully registered the cylinder at the time the sear fell into the full cock latch and the operator had ceased to pull the hammer back any further, would you think the firing pin could adequately hit the primer to make the gun go off. If so, there might be some bullet shaving due to the cylinder-bore misalignment. @@oldranger3044
If I am correct, you are asking about the two that are fairly close. The top one is where the trigger sear engages (sort of a safety) when the hammer is only slightly pulled back after firing. In this slot, the sear keeps the hammer from being able to contact the cartridge. Works well unless someone hits the hammer with a hammer or whatever. The second one is where the cylinder can be rotated for loading-unloading (free to turn). The last (difficult to see) is the full cock position. Hope this is what you are asking. O.R.
@@linasmagnum I suspected it was something else. Here's what Loren W. Smith in this book "Home gunsmithing the Colt Single Action" says. "...the upper part of the hand loses its hold on the tooth of the ratchet before the cylinder has revolved a full one-sixth turn. The lower point on the hand picks up the next tooth of the ratchet at the proper instant to continue the cylinder rotation..." . Book printed in 1971, which is about the time I got it. I was thinking along those lines, but that firms it up. Hope this helps. O.R.
Great video. Question: I have a 1st gen Colt 1873 SAA that when firing a full cylinder of rounds the hammer gets stuck only able to be in the resting position or in the safety notch but can't pull it back further. Sometimes taking the cylinder out and/or working the hammer eventually unfreezes the hammer. I've been inside the gun and the only thing that looks different from your demo is the curved spring on the hand/arm is way short. Its about 1/3 the length of yours. Is this the source of my mechanical issue? If so, any advise for replacing that spring? Is it a drop in thing or more complicated than a simple swap out? Thanks!
That spring is sort of replaceable. Not exactly a drop in. There’s usually a slot in the hand and after the spring is slid in the slot is hit with a punch to close the slit and provide tension. Need to pry open (be careful not too much). As far as the problem, I suppose can give a couple thoughts from what you described. If that spring isn’t doing its job, possibly the hand gets caught where it doesn’t belong. However I would then suspect that the hammer would still move, unlock the bolt from its cylinder notch, and it just wouldn’t rotate. Something to check is possible wear on the underside of the cam that is on the hammer. If that is worn, or the part of the bolt that makes contact with it, then drawing back the hammer will not get the bolt down far enough to release it from where it is up in the cylinder notch. Just a couple of thoughts, maybe close, but probably no cigar. O.R.
Here’s just a couple guesses. If it’s in the actual cut out area, possibly the bolt has a sharp edge that is scraping. A short or worn end on the arm of the bolt that the cam holds back until the hammer is brought far enough for it to slide off and release the bold against the cylinder would cause a scratch before the cylinder notches. You can hear it when the bolt hits the cylinder and note how much more the hammer comes backwards before the cylinder locks. Possibly the bolt spring is a little stronger than needed, causing excessive pressure, of course this is better than a weak one. Only some thoughts. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I think you are right about the spring being too strong. I installed a Wolf reduced power wire sear/bolt spring PN# 32294 and the engagement feels much lighter.
I'm wondering if there is any conceivable scenario where a fully working gun (unbroken) could fire without pulling the trigger. Suppose you brought the hammer to 99.99% full cock. Far enough to get the cylinder lock to click, but the sear is riding right on the full cock notch, but not actually latched. Let's say the hammer spring is particularly stiff so it will really throw that hammer down with maximum force. And let's further say that perhaps the trigger spring is a bit sticky for some reason, like maybe due to humidity, temperature, or perhaps some residue of some type got into the gun to gum it up a little bit. Would it then be possible (again, without holding the trigger) for the hammer to fall so quickly and so firmly that it skips past the half cock notch and falls all the way down to fire the gun?
So, when the gun is in full cock and fired, the trigger sear is kept from falling into the half cock notch by the finger pulling (and for an instant keeping) the sear back, allowing it to miss the half notch. There’s no finger pulling back in your scenario so as you point out, the trigger spring should do its job and shove the sear into half cock. But,,,as you are saying what if that for whatever reason) that doesn’t happen? Then, I will forecast a KaBoom. 🙁. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Yeah, that's how it goes in my head with the thought experiment. And while I think it is highly, highly unlikely that Alec Baldwin could be right when he says he didn't pull the trigger, I could imagine a scenario where it could, just maybe, happen. People on the Internet do quick, sloppy experiments to show its impossible to fire without pulling the trigger. But I want to see a more thoughtful experiment. Starting by getting that trigger spring nice and sticky. Take a cup of hot coffee and dissolve as much sugar into it as it will take, pour it all over the gun and let it dry. Wipe off the residue on the outside. Then use a brush to clean out the cylinders so all that sticky gunk falls down into the mechanisms. Then very slow cock the hammer, bring it past the cylinder lock, but just barely shy of full cock. Let the hammer go. What happens?
@@kdietz65 I’m starting to get the feeling that you have experience in the criminal investigation department. That plan could just gum up every spring but the mainspring. Without the sear spring functional, it would be a little like keeping the trigger held back and firing by cocking. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Haha. No, I don't. I'm an engineer. I have a mathematical and problem-solving type mind. I became interested in the Alec Baldwin / Rust case when it happened, and I've put in a large amount of time researching the case. That research has led me to videos like yours. I've always just assumed that AB was wrong when he said he didn't pull the trigger, I think he inadvertently did pull the trigger. I haven't given much credence to the idea that he didn't pull the trigger (I don't think it even matters all that much). But recently I've been watching videos like yours to learn more about how these guns operate, and that's led me to this line of hypothesis where I think maybe, just maybe the gun could somehow skip past the half-cock notch and fired. Although I still think unlikely, it could fit AB's version of events. He said he pulled the hammer slowly. That he didn't pull it all the way to full cock and held it in that position for some time (perhaps allowing the trigger to stick at that position). And HGR in her police interview said she couldn't get the sixth bullet in after lunch and she had to clean out the cylinder with a brush so she could get it in. Thus I surmise there was some kind of residue inside the gun, as in the scenario I'm pondering. Then I thought, what if the trigger spring was sticky, and I thought what would make it sticky. And I just thought, hey, maybe someone spilled some coffee on it before lunch and it dried up and made the trigger sticky. Far-fetched, but I find it a curious scenario to think about.
I have a remington 1875 that locks up unless I put a little upward pressure on the cylinder , then it works fine as long as that pressure is maintained. I know it's something to do with the cylinder stop. But what?
Hi, don’t have one of those, even so I’m just making a guess. The hand is trying to rotate the cylinder with the bolt still slightly engaged in the cylinder notch (what you call the stop) and possibly it’s almost out and pushing upward maybe moves the cylinder enough (possibly even forward) and that gets the bolt past or out of the notch. The bolt arm that works in conjunction with the cam on the hammer has started to move up, causing the bolt to move down, but possibly there isn’t enough metal underneath it, so the cam won’t move it up enough (which moves the other end “bolt” to move down far enough to get out of the cylinder notch. There’s probably other things that can cause it, but this is just one idea, sort like a shot from the hip. O.R.
Here's my guess. The bolt (what comes through the bottom slot to lock cylinder) is not coming up soon enough. The books say it should be about 5 degrees before lock-up. If it is flying exactly into the locking notch, than a fast rotation will cause it to miss. That is one reason for the leads that are cut in the cylinder just before the actual locking notch. Cocking the gun slow, you should actually hear when that bolt hits the cylinder Then a little more rotation and either one or two more clicks. Those should happen after about a 5 degree rotation. One click probably means that the trigger sear and bolt dropping into it's final locking notch are happening together, which it what is called the perfect timing. Some think that perfect timing is when the bolt hits the notch when it first comes up, but actually in should drop into the leads on the cylinder. Sometimes what you describe could be caused by a weak, or partly broken bolt spring. Seems I have had that situation where it doesn't have the strength and doesn't move fast enough. Maybe that's what's wrong with my legs. Hope this helps. I can say that if the arm of the bolt that rides the hammer cam is shorter, the bolt will pop up sooner. I think they are made a little on the long side because they can be adjusted. If they are too short then the bolt will not get out of the lock-up position when the hand tries to rotate the cylinder for the.next shot. Hope some of this helps. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you very much for the detailed reply. Outside of trying different bolts is there any way to correct this OR is it alright to use as is if I just cock it at a moderate speed. BTW it's an Uberti 1849 Pocket Pistol with only 30 rounds through it. It didn't do this before I shot it. Thank you again Old Ranger.
@@EBthere As long as the cylinder is locked, I don't see a issue. Something you might want to check when NOT loaded is that q-tip test that I talked about on one of the video's. Lowering the hammer from the full cock position and listen and look to see where the face of the hammer is to the frame when the hammer is almost completely down. That click will be the bolt arm sliding off the cam. You won't be able to bring the hammer back and rotate the cylinder till this happens. It should happen about the time the hammer face lines up flush with the inside of the frame. If it has to go much further then if there is a caped nipple (this is what the q-tip represents) then the gun will be locked up and the barrel will need to be removed to free it up. Sounds complicated, but you might want to know about that because sometimes it is necessary to lower the hammer from the cocked position without firing the shot. If you have been inside the gun and can get another bolt, replacement might solve the issue. If you want to try to solve the problem with the replacement bolt (keeping the original unchanged), shorten the arm of the bolt that rides against the hammer cam. It won't take much, 2-3 thousands and you should hear the bolt snap into the pre notch grove. Its difficult to trouble shoot without seeing the problem, so this is not a sure fix. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Yes, the cylinder seems to be locked. Only time over-rotating occurs is with a fast cocking of the hammer. I will look for the "Q-tip video but you seem to have explained it very well. I'm gonna play it by ear for now since it's locking. I've been inside my larger Colt repros but not this pocket model yet. You are very kind to give such in-depth answers and I really appreciate it Old Ranger.
If I had to choose, I'd probably go for the 51 navy. It has something to do with the balance, it's really hard to explain. The Single Action Army is also excellent, and the grips are very close to interchangeable with the 51. Thanks for watching and the comment. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 yeah if I could only have one I think it would be the 51 navy there's something about them . One day our laws may change and I'll get one or 40 . Great video mate and stay warm 👍
@@deanmacka4975 You got my sympathy....period... I wont't say how close I am right now to the ones one the video -- that wouldn't be nice. Too cold out for any range shooting, but looking at them sure beats reality T.V. Sure like the 40 plan. I remember in my state in 1967 there was a law passed that required a 3 day waiting period after purchase of a hand gun before taking it out of the store. Idea was it would prevent some spur of the moment shootings. Well, it was sure a pain. For close of 50 years of my life (prime time) I had to drive back and pick up the purchase. Then, the law was revoked, apparently someone decided it wasn't needed. Wow! It took 50 years for the legislature to figure out that it was just plain a mistake. O.R.
I'm guessing, but that would tell us that the bolt is coming up directly into the locking notch at exactly the same time as the trigger sear locks the hammer back. This is a good thing, but you might not want to cock it really fast. This also occurs on one of mine. If not directly, the bolt is coming up very close at least to the notch and the momentum of the rotating cylinder alone puts the cylinder ahead enough for the bolt to snap into position. Remington has no lead into the notch, seems this is the way they were designed. O.R.
Good point. Here's the full story. Couple years back I got unlucky when I bought a couple used revolvers on line. One I was able to salvage one (sort of), the other was a brass frame that had the cylinder arbor held in the threaded section of the frame with epoxy. I machined a new arbor, but failed when cutting larger threads in the frame, believe I did not get the angle right. Anyway, that frame became unusable, and I grabbed it to demonstrate where the hand and hand spring go in a frame, rather than take one apart. Never cleaned it up as it is junk. Good observation. O.R.
Sorry, no to both. But I’ve often thought it would be neat and fun to be able to pass on what things I have, and have learned to someone else. Like the guy that hired Quigley said, maybe I was born in the wrong place; however, today it appears there are worse places to be in. O.R.
I have a used Dixie gun works walker revolver and when I pull the hammer back and pull the trigger , it stop at half cock . Could you tell me what I need to do to fix it .
I’m thinking that possibly a spent cap worked its way into the action and won’t allow the trigger sear to move ahead enough when the trigger is pulled. Suppose it’s also possible someone lowered the notch on the hammer where the trigger sear engages in an attempt to reduce trigger creep. Might want to check TH-cam for video on dissembling the walker as the mainspring is a bit tricky. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 you could be right on the hammer , I was thinking about that too . I've already had it apart and I think if I replace the hammer it might fix it . The hammer a little expensive but I order one and give it a try . If thats not it I order another part that might be it . Thanks for you reply .
@@tomslongguns443 The trigger needs to have sufficient reward travel so its sear cannot drop into the half cock notch. Im again guessing but if the trigger-bolt spring is too strong, it might quickly force the sear back against the hammer between the two notches. I know the spring of mine is a lot stiffer (stronger) then most all of my other models, which of course is good for the sear engaging the hammer, but increases trigger pull weight. Be interested to hear what solves your situation. O. R.
@@oldranger3044 it was the main spring , after I had bought a new hammer and couple of other parts . It turned out to be the main spring . It had slid to one side and when you pull the trigger wouldn't let it fall all the way .
Ah yes, the sound of the four clicks of a Colt Single Action. So fitting that the clicks should spell out the word Colt. Now I've found on replicas that the four clicks spell out the word FAKE.
Nice. If you ever decide to change the line up. Get ride of few I’d love to purchase one. I’d wanted it signed. Be worth as much to me if it was John Wayne. Or my favorite my name’s nobody, Terrance Hill, or even Clint Eastwood. Old Ranger. Why sure. Stay safe from ur ole hillbilly buddy
@@paultrimble9390 " Who was that masked man" Can't show my face on the videos. Life's too short not to have a sense of humor, fantasies, and above all, heroes. O.R.
Thank you for the explanation of the bolt mechanic. This video has a 3d animation which complements this explanation. th-cam.com/video/__r-zvD8io8/w-d-xo.html
@@theticofacous You’re welcome, and thanks for the link - that animation is well done. If OK with you I will pin your comment so others can view the animation. O.R.
Question or your thoughts on problem with my colt 1851 navy. It is a colt branded gun which I think was made by uberti. So what is going on when I draw hammer back for half cock to load the bolt is coming up and locking cylinder. If I cock really slow I can get it into half cock but if I pull just a chair to much bolt comes up. Thinking I could have a worn cam on hammer although it really doesn't look it but who knows. I can make it a little better by backing the spring bolt off a little. any help or thoughts would be amazing thanks!
@@barefootbob1269 Hi. Just some thoughts that might help. One side of the bolt arms rides along the side of the cam. When the side is gone it slips off, causing bolt to pop up. As you are aware worn parts, or an incorrectly shaped arm that won’t stay against the cam to the “end” could do it. The other arm of the bolt pushes against the frame so that there is the necessary pressure to keep the other arm against the cam. A weak or cracked arm is also a possibility. Sometimes they look ok, but don’t have the necessary spring tension. Sorry I can’t think of anything else at the moment. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Awesome thanks going to pull it apart again and give it another look. It is a new bolt that I put in but the original was acting exactly the same. So that was leading me to thinking worn cam on hammer. We will give it another look. Thanks again.
@ Now when you are putting less pressure on the bolt by a loose screw on the trigger-bolt spring the bolt arm riding the cam might be able to hold better on the cam. Having replaced the bolt points more to the cam. Hate to knock the colts, but I have seen actual groves in the side of the cam. Also the cam could be into the hammer a bit far, or rotation not correct. Believe they were a press fit. I just swapped a Uberti hammer into a 1851 2nd gen and all was good. The pin in the 2nd gen that the hand goes on slid out and was a little large for the new hammer(from a 2020 51 Uberti. I reversed the pin and it fit into the hammer. Possibly that’s the orientation it originally was. Sooo, if the cam is the issue, a new Uberti hammer (ouch) might do it. Think of these as erector sets. Somewhat expensive toys, but I remember Erector sets weren’t cheap either. PS There should be enough of the cam sticking out of the hammer where the arm slides off to be visible, maybe 1/32 inch. O.R.
@ I’ve been down this Rabbit Hole before with lots of stuff. Plenty of times what “should” fix it, well, turns out to be something totally unexpected. You might want to have a look inside the frame where the arm of the bolt has to slide on for something wield (burr or whatever). Hope that I’m not encouraging something that won’t be a fix, these things can be tricky even if sitting on top of them. Appreciate any updates, this is a situation I haven’t seen. O.R.
![[CAP JAMS] A $35 Fix? SliXshot vs. Factory Cones](/img/n.gif)
I occasionally watch cap and ball utube videos for my own enjoyment - I have watched dozens. It is very rarely I see one that actually says something new and helpful. Your discussion of cap and ball bolt wear was new and helpful - I thank you for it. Some time ago I subscribed to you channel, this sort of thing is why. Most utube videos are introductory videos and basically the same thing over and over - I really appreciate the new stuff.
Now I know what all those parts I've been cleaning actually do. You can see why Mr Colt took a few years to perfect the mechanism. Great video. Many thanks
Yes, that cam action to lock the cylinder, and then to release it is pretty amazing from my level of mechanics. Understanding the concept was tuff enough. Appreciate your comments Kev. O.R.
It’s even crazier when you think that he wasn’t just improving on someone else’s design, he created the first practical revolver mechanism.
Just wanted to say how helpful this video has been in restoring an original 1849 pocket, to get the timing and action running right. Thank you!
Thanks Frank. Glad to be able to pass on some helpful information. O.R.
another good video ranger.i started out about a year ago buying a uberti new navy.now I'm waiting to recieve gun number 15.but buying revolvers is one thg thing,expertise is another.i wont have the hobby mastered until I can find old parts guns and fix them up.as well as making caps,powder and ball.keep the educational videos coming.
Very good video and thank you for posting, as always keeping up the hobby and helping fellow shooters
Much appreciated
Outstanding informational video Old Ranger. This clears up the mistory of how the tapered stub on the hammer works with the bolt for notch positions. 🇺🇸
Great video. Springs fail from fatigue but hard to check until they fracture. Always good to have a few spares around! Enjoy your videos!
I have searched this topic a plethora of times over recent months and yet randomly today it shows up in my feed. Subd.
TH-cam used to be an amazing platform...
I really have no idea of how it works. I have not selected the option to have advertising, and suspect that possibly that could affect what they do (or do not) with my videos. Anyway, hope the info here was useful. Thanks for the Sub. O.R.
Thanks much. I have one Colt with the bolt dropping a tiny bit late. I have to cock it very slowly. Now, I know what/where to slightly file (shorten).
great video i work on all my firearms myself ,,,now against the law in fascist australia ,this was absolutely so useful to me , i'm assuming theres several issues that cause that score line on cylinder before lock up , i'd never considered each step that each part takes , i just blamed the bolt ,,more to think of , thanks for sharing , cheers big ears from downunder
Great to hear from you. I've used Single Actions for longer than I care to relate, and never gave it much thought either. Just figured it was bound to happen with use. Yes, that is true, but its got more to do with rotating the cylinder by hand when the bolt is against the cylinder. Seems there are times when this is necessary, can't think of the example right now, but drawing back the hammer to rotate the cylinder will lower the bolt off the cylinder (in most cases), and then the hand will do the rotation.
Cylinder drag marks aren't the worst thing of course, but I think lots of folks blame timing for this, when it probably has other causes. Thanks for the comment. O.R.
If one would look and listen ur gun always telling you something.
That’s how I’m taking it.
Great video.
Old Ranger that’s how much I enjoy your video’s and time and effort.
Willing to take few clicks. lol
Have a couple more in mind. I have some comments to make on the gun in the "Cody" museum that is said to have belonged to "Wild Bill". Also want to do one on common parts that bust in many single actions and how to tell what might be wrong without taking it apart. Sound interesting, let me know. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 yes sir. Anything you have to say. I’m ready to listen.
I got a black powder 1851 pietta navy revolver chambered in 44 caliber. On a couple of the chambers, when I cock the hammer it will be met with a bit of resistance and then release and over-rotate or simply not click into place. Any idea what this might be?
Not sure I can be of much help, but when you say a couple of chambers, can you tell if it is the same ones, or is it more random and happens a couple times or so on each rotation? So, it pulls hard, and then goes fast when the resistance releases and it over rotates. O.R.
Thank you good video. Care to show any tips on how to smooth up the percussion revolvers? Would be as good reason to stay out of the snow and make another good video at the same time.
Thanks. Actually thinking about something like that. Do have a couple more in mind. One is on the gun in the Cody Museum that's claimed to belong to Wild Bill. Doing some homework now on that and a couple more ideas. Always good to get new ideas, thanks again. O.R.
With this video I managed to understand and fix a bit of a timing issue that, to my great dismay, developed after the first disassembly of my brand new Pietta Colt 1851 Navy Yank .36: at full cock the cylinder wanted to rotate further than it had any reason to, and it traveled back when I pulled the trigger.
I panicked just a little, then I noticed my bolt wasn't fully rising up (eh!), so I checked the bolt spring screw and it was way too loose; I tightened it (but not too much), and now everything works better than ever. Phew!
Great. What you described makes sense. Always good to have a happy ending - glad that maybe the video helped, and thanks for sharing. O.R.
Thank You very much for Your video's.
This one was especially.
I have a couple 1st. gen. SAA Colts in very good condition, one is timed ok, but has 457 chamber mouths, and 452 barrel.
The other one functions, and shoots very well, but The bolt drags, and the cylinder shows it.
After watching this, I have a better understanding of how to try to remedy the problem.
That is if i can find gen.1 parts.
These Guns were made in 1886 and 89, I shoot them carefully and not very much.
Cheers!
Thanks. I'm sure not familiar with those age guns, but its possible that more modern parts may fit, especially with some mods. There could be some information on a colt SAA forum as far as who might have parts. My brother used to get parts from a John Sueth, (may not be spelled right), he was recommended by E. Keith, but that was back in the 70's. O.R.
The cylinder stop/ trigger spring broke on my 1860 army, but I noticed it was the short arm that broke so I made a new "short arm from a spring clip and put it in with the remaining trigger arm and it worked beautifully.
Good. The guns aren’t rocket science once they are understood, and as said, there’s more than one way to ……….. O.R.
Thankyou for an excellent presentation!
Appreciate that you enjoyed it. 👍. O.R.
Great explanation!
Awesome video, thank you for sharing.
Good start, needs a series of overhead lights to show those dark spaces we cannot see.
Thanks for the lighting idea. A good picture always worth 1K words. O.R.
Thank you for the video, very cool. 👌🤠👍
This is a very simple and problem free action, but many are ruined by people without knowledge of the function, grinding and filing trying to lighten the trigger pull, alter the timing and "tuning" the action, they usually give up after buggering it up and sell the gun on, the only mystery to me is why Colt decided to change the grp frame size from the, "normal" size of the 1860, to the too small size of the 1873, I have fitted 1860 grip frames on my 1873 and it is much better. Stay safe ! Chris B.
My feelings exactly. Sadly I have been one that was too anxious to get out the butchering tools without thinking. That was way before the internet. Living next to the arctic there were no neighbors or friends I knew of that could help. So, I did stuff that I was sorry for. Fortunately at the time that I bored out two cylinders on 2nd generation 51's with a drill press and a 380 bit with the hope they would group better, was at that time also to order new ones because Colt was making their signature series and stamped the correct serial numbers in the replacements. Replaced fronts with higher ones, ground off hammers, etc. Live and learn. So that's my confession. One reason for a video like this in the hope that some will view it and get a better understanding before getting out the stones and files. Thanks, always enjoy hearing.
That is a mystery. Possibly because the 51 was so popular. We'll never know. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Yes, it is very easy for me to criticise others for "butchering" their firearms, but there is a certain fever that takes over, and without reference to good publications or a history of engineering principles, it is easy to go down the wrong path, even now, with the internet, there is so much bad information that unless you already know the function, you could go along the wrong path, there are many channels on youtube that advocate really bad practices, so when a good channel like this surfaces it is illuminating, rather than confusing, even many gunsmiths do not truly understand the workings of this design , as I do not understand the workings of an AR 15, to each his own! Stay safe! Chris B.
I would love to see a race gun build video
For your 2nd generation Colt and the Single Action Army Colt clones, do you think the cylinder latches/registers into the firing position before the hammer reaches the full cock position or after the full cock position? In other words, if you are ever so careful to stop pulling the hammer back at the very moment that the trigger sear engages into the full cock hammer notch, is the cylinder bolt fully engaged and registered into the cylinder location notch. If not, how far off is the alignment?
Unfortunately, I don't own an SAA but plan to in the near future. From looking through some of the drawing and videos, I would have guessed that one would expect to hear 5 clicks:
1.) trigger sear snaps into hammer safety notch
2.) ltrigger sear snaps into hammer load notch
3.) cylinder bolt is released in preparation to capture the cylinder location notch
4.) cylinder bolt locates into cylinder registration notch
5.) trigger sear snaps into hammer full cock notch
Yes, 5 for the SAA. According to Jerry Kuhnhausen in his shop manual,, “In a perfectly timed Colt S.A.A. Revolver, bolt and full cock sear engagement occur at virtually the same time. Hence the single audible 4th click.” So five for most where the sear drops into the cock notch just before the bolt clicks as it locks the cylinder, four if “perfectly” timed. The percussion guns lack the first (quarter) notch in the hammer, so there would be only three clicks instead of four. Looks to me you have done your homework on this, especially without owning one. Congrats. O.R.
Thank you for your reply. For the case of an SAA that was not perfectly timed, where the cylinder bolt had not yet fully registered the cylinder at the time the sear fell into the full cock latch and the operator had ceased to pull the hammer back any further, would you think the firing pin could adequately hit the primer to make the gun go off. If so, there might be some bullet shaving due to the cylinder-bore misalignment. @@oldranger3044
Thank you Mr. Ranger@@oldranger3044
Nicely done, only why SAA hand has double spurs? Thanks
If I am correct, you are asking about the two that are fairly close. The top one is where the trigger sear engages (sort of a safety) when the hammer is only slightly pulled back after firing. In this slot, the sear keeps the hammer from being able to contact the cartridge. Works well unless someone hits the hammer with a hammer or whatever. The second one is where the cylinder can be rotated for loading-unloading (free to turn). The last (difficult to see) is the full cock position. Hope this is what you are asking. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 No, I ment hand that turns the cylinderm SAA has like a spur under as for CųB does not, they both different.
@@linasmagnum I suspected it was something else. Here's what Loren W. Smith in this book "Home gunsmithing the Colt Single Action" says. "...the upper part of the hand loses its hold on the tooth of the ratchet before the cylinder has revolved a full one-sixth turn. The lower point on the hand picks up the next tooth of the ratchet at the proper instant to continue the cylinder rotation..." . Book printed in 1971, which is about the time I got it. I was thinking along those lines, but that firms it up. Hope this helps. O.R.
Great video. Question: I have a 1st gen Colt 1873 SAA that when firing a full cylinder of rounds the hammer gets stuck only able to be in the resting position or in the safety notch but can't pull it back further. Sometimes taking the cylinder out and/or working the hammer eventually unfreezes the hammer. I've been inside the gun and the only thing that looks different from your demo is the curved spring on the hand/arm is way short. Its about 1/3 the length of yours. Is this the source of my mechanical issue? If so, any advise for replacing that spring? Is it a drop in thing or more complicated than a simple swap out? Thanks!
That spring is sort of replaceable. Not exactly a drop in. There’s usually a slot in the hand and after the spring is slid in the slot is hit with a punch to close the slit and provide tension. Need to pry open (be careful not too much).
As far as the problem, I suppose can give a couple thoughts from what you described. If that spring isn’t doing its job, possibly the hand gets caught where it doesn’t belong. However I would then suspect that the hammer would still move, unlock the bolt from its cylinder notch, and it just wouldn’t rotate. Something to check is possible wear on the underside of the cam that is on the hammer. If that is worn, or the part of the bolt that makes contact with it, then drawing back the hammer will not get the bolt down far enough to release it from where it is up in the cylinder notch. Just a couple of thoughts, maybe close, but probably no cigar. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 thanks. You’ve given me a starting point and that’s more than I had before.
Great video! What causes the bolt to scratch the cylinder in the lead in area on a new gun?
Here’s just a couple guesses. If it’s in the actual cut out area, possibly the bolt has a sharp edge that is scraping. A short or worn end on the arm of the bolt that the cam holds back until the hammer is brought far enough for it to slide off and release the bold against the cylinder would cause a scratch before the cylinder notches. You can hear it when the bolt hits the cylinder and note how much more the hammer comes backwards before the cylinder locks. Possibly the bolt spring is a little stronger than needed, causing excessive pressure, of course this is better than a weak one. Only some thoughts. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you and I’ll try to track it down. What about using a Wolff bolt/trigger wire type spring?
I’ve heard good things about them, no experience however. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I think you are right about the spring being too strong. I installed a Wolf reduced power wire sear/bolt spring PN# 32294 and the engagement feels much lighter.
@@75SakoHunter Thanks for the update. Maybe I made a lucky guess, anyway, good 👍. O.R.
I'm wondering if there is any conceivable scenario where a fully working gun (unbroken) could fire without pulling the trigger. Suppose you brought the hammer to 99.99% full cock. Far enough to get the cylinder lock to click, but the sear is riding right on the full cock notch, but not actually latched. Let's say the hammer spring is particularly stiff so it will really throw that hammer down with maximum force. And let's further say that perhaps the trigger spring is a bit sticky for some reason, like maybe due to humidity, temperature, or perhaps some residue of some type got into the gun to gum it up a little bit. Would it then be possible (again, without holding the trigger) for the hammer to fall so quickly and so firmly that it skips past the half cock notch and falls all the way down to fire the gun?
So, when the gun is in full cock and fired, the trigger sear is kept from falling into the half cock notch by the finger pulling (and for an instant keeping) the sear back, allowing it to miss the half notch. There’s no finger pulling back in your scenario so as you point out, the trigger spring should do its job and shove the sear into half cock. But,,,as you are saying what if that for whatever reason) that doesn’t happen? Then, I will forecast a KaBoom. 🙁. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Yeah, that's how it goes in my head with the thought experiment. And while I think it is highly, highly unlikely that Alec Baldwin could be right when he says he didn't pull the trigger, I could imagine a scenario where it could, just maybe, happen.
People on the Internet do quick, sloppy experiments to show its impossible to fire without pulling the trigger. But I want to see a more thoughtful experiment. Starting by getting that trigger spring nice and sticky. Take a cup of hot coffee and dissolve as much sugar into it as it will take, pour it all over the gun and let it dry. Wipe off the residue on the outside. Then use a brush to clean out the cylinders so all that sticky gunk falls down into the mechanisms. Then very slow cock the hammer, bring it past the cylinder lock, but just barely shy of full cock. Let the hammer go. What happens?
@@kdietz65 I’m starting to get the feeling that you have experience in the criminal investigation department. That plan could just gum up every spring but the mainspring. Without the sear spring functional, it would be a little like keeping the trigger held back and firing by cocking. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Haha. No, I don't. I'm an engineer. I have a mathematical and problem-solving type mind. I became interested in the Alec Baldwin / Rust case when it happened, and I've put in a large amount of time researching the case. That research has led me to videos like yours. I've always just assumed that AB was wrong when he said he didn't pull the trigger, I think he inadvertently did pull the trigger. I haven't given much credence to the idea that he didn't pull the trigger (I don't think it even matters all that much). But recently I've been watching videos like yours to learn more about how these guns operate, and that's led me to this line of hypothesis where I think maybe, just maybe the gun could somehow skip past the half-cock notch and fired. Although I still think unlikely, it could fit AB's version of events. He said he pulled the hammer slowly. That he didn't pull it all the way to full cock and held it in that position for some time (perhaps allowing the trigger to stick at that position). And HGR in her police interview said she couldn't get the sixth bullet in after lunch and she had to clean out the cylinder with a brush so she could get it in. Thus I surmise there was some kind of residue inside the gun, as in the scenario I'm pondering. Then I thought, what if the trigger spring was sticky, and I thought what would make it sticky. And I just thought, hey, maybe someone spilled some coffee on it before lunch and it dried up and made the trigger sticky. Far-fetched, but I find it a curious scenario to think about.
My Remington two clicks. Well ur talking about it now
Good Job! Thank you!
Awesome thanks 😊
Good job
I have a remington 1875 that locks up unless I put a little upward pressure on the cylinder , then it works fine as long as that pressure is maintained. I know it's something to do with the cylinder stop. But what?
Hi, don’t have one of those, even so I’m just making a guess. The hand is trying to rotate the cylinder with the bolt still slightly engaged in the cylinder notch (what you call the stop) and possibly it’s almost out and pushing upward maybe moves the cylinder enough (possibly even forward) and that gets the bolt past or out of the notch. The bolt arm that works in conjunction with the cam on the hammer has started to move up, causing the bolt to move down, but possibly there isn’t enough metal underneath it, so the cam won’t move it up enough (which moves the other end “bolt” to move down far enough to get out of the cylinder notch. There’s probably other things that can cause it, but this is just one idea, sort like a shot from the hip. O.R.
Thanks!
Could you tell me why my cylinder over rotates if I cock it somewhat fast but it's perfect if I cock it medium or slow speed?
Here's my guess. The bolt (what comes through the bottom slot to lock cylinder) is not coming up soon enough. The books say it should be about 5 degrees before lock-up. If it is flying exactly into the locking notch, than a fast rotation will cause it to miss. That is one reason for the leads that are cut in the cylinder just before the actual locking notch.
Cocking the gun slow, you should actually hear when that bolt hits the cylinder Then a little more rotation and either one or two more clicks. Those should happen after about a 5 degree rotation. One click probably means that the trigger sear and bolt dropping into it's final locking notch are happening together, which it what is called the perfect timing. Some think that perfect timing is when the bolt hits the notch when it first comes up, but actually in should drop into the leads on the cylinder. Sometimes what you describe could be caused by a weak, or partly broken bolt spring. Seems I have had that situation where it doesn't have the strength and doesn't move fast enough. Maybe that's what's wrong with my legs. Hope this helps. I can say that if the arm of the bolt that rides the hammer cam is shorter, the bolt will pop up sooner. I think they are made a little on the long side because they can be adjusted. If they are too short then the bolt will not get out of the lock-up position when the hand tries to rotate the cylinder for the.next shot. Hope some of this helps. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you very much for the detailed reply. Outside of trying different bolts is there any way to correct this OR is it alright to use as is if I just cock it at a moderate speed. BTW it's an Uberti 1849 Pocket Pistol with only 30 rounds through it. It didn't do this before I shot it. Thank you again Old Ranger.
@@EBthere As long as the cylinder is locked, I don't see a issue. Something you might want to check when NOT loaded is that q-tip test that I talked about on one of the video's. Lowering the hammer from the full cock position and listen and look to see where the face of the hammer is to the frame when the hammer is almost completely down. That click will be the bolt arm sliding off the cam. You won't be able to bring the hammer back and rotate the cylinder till this happens. It should happen about the time the hammer face lines up flush with the inside of the frame. If it has to go much further then if there is a caped nipple (this is what the q-tip represents) then the gun will be locked up and the barrel will need to be removed to free it up.
Sounds complicated, but you might want to know about that because sometimes it is necessary to lower the hammer from the cocked position without firing the shot.
If you have been inside the gun and can get another bolt, replacement might solve the issue. If you want to try to solve the problem with the replacement bolt (keeping the original unchanged), shorten the arm of the bolt that rides against the hammer cam. It won't take much, 2-3 thousands and you should hear the bolt snap into the pre notch grove. Its difficult to trouble shoot without seeing the problem, so this is not a sure fix. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Yes, the cylinder seems to be locked. Only time over-rotating occurs is with a fast cocking of the hammer.
I will look for the "Q-tip video but you seem to have explained it very well. I'm gonna play it by ear for now since it's locking. I've been inside my larger Colt repros but not this pocket model yet. You are very kind to give such in-depth answers and I really appreciate it Old Ranger.
Lol it’s 6:30 in morning I’m sitting up in bed. Clicking ole lady gonna give me two click on head. If I wake her up. Lol 😂 oh no.
Which one feels the best to hold ? I like the look of the both.
If I had to choose, I'd probably go for the 51 navy. It has something to do with the balance, it's really hard to explain. The Single Action Army is also excellent, and the grips are very close to interchangeable with the 51. Thanks for watching and the comment. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 yeah if I could only have one I think it would be the 51 navy there's something about them . One day our laws may change and I'll get one or 40 . Great video mate and stay warm 👍
@@deanmacka4975 You got my sympathy....period... I wont't say how close I am right now to the ones one the video -- that wouldn't be nice. Too cold out for any range shooting, but looking at them sure beats reality T.V. Sure like the 40 plan. I remember in my state in 1967 there was a law passed that required a 3 day waiting period after purchase of a hand gun before taking it out of the store. Idea was it would prevent some spur of the moment shootings. Well, it was sure a pain. For close of 50 years of my life (prime time) I had to drive back and pick up the purchase. Then, the law was revoked, apparently someone decided it wasn't needed. Wow! It took 50 years for the legislature to figure out that it was just plain a mistake. O.R.
Yeah I’m getting two clicks out of bp 1858 Remington.
I'm guessing, but that would tell us that the bolt is coming up directly into the locking notch at exactly the same time as the trigger sear locks the hammer back. This is a good thing, but you might not want to cock it really fast. This also occurs on one of mine. If not directly, the bolt is coming up very close at least to the notch and the momentum of the rotating cylinder alone puts the cylinder ahead enough for the bolt to snap into position. Remington has no lead into the notch, seems this is the way they were designed. O.R.
Thanks for this
Was that all brass shavings/fillings on the inside of the brass frame at 3:56?
I can't believe you would leave all that crap in there.
It looks to me like part of the casting. Look close.
Good point. Here's the full story. Couple years back I got unlucky when I bought a couple used revolvers on line. One I was able to salvage one (sort of), the other was a brass frame that had the cylinder arbor held in the threaded section of the frame with epoxy. I machined a new arbor, but failed when cutting larger threads in the frame, believe I did not get the angle right. Anyway, that frame became unusable, and I grabbed it to demonstrate where the hand and hand spring go in a frame, rather than take one apart. Never cleaned it up as it is junk. Good observation. O.R.
Actually those are brass shavings. Frame was a junk one I grabbed to illustrate where the hand and hand spring operate inside the frame. O.R.
Injoy information on mechanics of trigger operation & troubleshooting 👍☕️☕️✌️
Do u offer gunsmithing services ?
If not , do u offer classes?
Sorry, no to both. But I’ve often thought it would be neat and fun to be able to pass on what things I have, and have learned to someone else. Like the guy that hired Quigley said, maybe I was born in the wrong place; however, today it appears there are worse places to be in. O.R.
@oldranger3044 thank you.
I have been trying to learn gunsmithing but all schools are online and I wish I could find a place for learning
Nice
Thumbs up video.
I have a used Dixie gun works walker revolver and when I pull the hammer back and pull the trigger , it stop at half cock . Could you tell me what I need to do to fix it .
Not any experience as to what might be different inside the walker, but looking into it and will get back to you if I come up with something. O.R.
I’m thinking that possibly a spent cap worked its way into the action and won’t allow the trigger sear to move ahead enough when the trigger is pulled. Suppose it’s also possible someone lowered the notch on the hammer where the trigger sear engages in an attempt to reduce trigger creep. Might want to check TH-cam for video on dissembling the walker as the mainspring is a bit tricky. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 you could be right on the hammer , I was thinking about that too . I've already had it apart and I think if I replace the hammer it might fix it . The hammer a little expensive but I order one and give it a try . If thats not it I order another part that might be it . Thanks for you reply .
@@tomslongguns443 The trigger needs to have sufficient reward travel so its sear cannot drop into the half cock notch. Im again guessing but if the trigger-bolt spring is too strong, it might quickly force the sear back against the hammer between the two notches. I know the spring of mine is a lot stiffer (stronger) then most all of my other models, which of course is good for the sear engaging the hammer, but increases trigger pull weight. Be interested to hear what solves your situation. O. R.
@@oldranger3044 it was the main spring , after I had bought a new hammer and couple of other parts . It turned out to be the main spring . It had slid to one side and when you pull the trigger wouldn't let it fall all the way .
Ah yes, the sound of the four clicks of a Colt Single Action. So fitting that the clicks should spell out the word Colt. Now I've found on replicas that the four clicks spell out the word FAKE.
❤❤❤Это Украина, спасибо за Ваше видео. ❤
3:57 looks like the maker was in a hurry and didn't do anything to clean up the burs or lose material.
Nice.
If you ever decide to change the line up. Get ride of few
I’d love to purchase one.
I’d wanted it signed. Be worth as much to me if it was John Wayne. Or my favorite my name’s nobody, Terrance Hill, or even Clint Eastwood.
Old Ranger. Why sure.
Stay safe from ur ole hillbilly buddy
Like Nobody, back in the 50's, I used to pretend that I was the "Lone Ranger"
@@oldranger3044 hi o silver away.
Yes sir.
@@paultrimble9390 " Who was that masked man" Can't show my face on the videos. Life's too short not to have a sense of humor, fantasies, and above all, heroes. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 you got that right.
Me Taunto. ( the side kick, or more like the kick stand lol).
C*lt Second Generation clicks indicate "Made In Italy" eh Good Sir ...
Thank you for the explanation of the bolt mechanic. This video has a 3d animation which complements this explanation. th-cam.com/video/__r-zvD8io8/w-d-xo.html
@@theticofacous You’re welcome, and thanks for the link - that animation is well done. If OK with you I will pin your comment so others can view the animation. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Of course
Question or your thoughts on problem with my colt 1851 navy. It is a colt branded gun which I think was made by uberti. So what is going on when I draw hammer back for half cock to load the bolt is coming up and locking cylinder. If I cock really slow I can get it into half cock but if I pull just a chair to much bolt comes up. Thinking I could have a worn cam on hammer although it really doesn't look it but who knows. I can make it a little better by backing the spring bolt off a little. any help or thoughts would be amazing thanks!
@@barefootbob1269 Hi. Just some thoughts that might help. One side of the bolt arms rides along the side of the cam. When the side is gone it slips off, causing bolt to pop up. As you are aware worn parts, or an incorrectly shaped arm that won’t stay against the cam to the “end” could do it. The other arm of the bolt pushes against the frame so that there is the necessary pressure to keep the other arm against the cam. A weak or cracked arm is also a possibility. Sometimes they look ok, but don’t have the necessary spring tension. Sorry I can’t think of anything else at the moment. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Awesome thanks going to pull it apart again and give it another look. It is a new bolt that I put in but the original was acting exactly the same. So that was leading me to thinking worn cam on hammer. We will give it another look. Thanks again.
@ Now when you are putting less pressure on the bolt by a loose screw on the trigger-bolt spring the bolt arm riding the cam might be able to hold better on the cam. Having replaced the bolt points more to the cam. Hate to knock the colts, but I have seen actual groves in the side of the cam. Also the cam could be into the hammer a bit far, or rotation not correct. Believe they were a press fit. I just swapped a Uberti hammer into a 1851 2nd gen and all was good. The pin in the 2nd gen that the hand goes on slid out and was a little large for the new hammer(from a 2020 51 Uberti. I reversed the pin and it fit into the hammer. Possibly that’s the orientation it originally was. Sooo, if the cam is the issue, a new Uberti hammer (ouch) might do it. Think of these as erector sets. Somewhat expensive toys, but I remember Erector sets weren’t cheap either. PS There should be enough of the cam sticking out of the hammer where the arm slides off to be visible, maybe 1/32 inch. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you sir going to order the hammer found one mid west gun works $40 worth a shot. Will keep you posted on results.
@ I’ve been down this Rabbit Hole before with lots of stuff. Plenty of times what “should” fix it, well, turns out to be something totally unexpected. You might want to have a look inside the frame where the arm of the bolt has to slide on for something wield (burr or whatever). Hope that I’m not encouraging something that won’t be a fix, these things can be tricky even if sitting on top of them. Appreciate any updates, this is a situation I haven’t seen. O.R.