on another youtube video, i saw a comment that said The Wizard of Oz was from Dorothy's perspective, Maguire's novel was from Elphaba's perspective, ang the musical was from Glinda's perspective and that really stuck with me
That makes me question how Dorothy and Glinda can be so positive when Every single main character in all of the Wicked books are just dystopian nightmares. The spin-off series with The Brides of Maracoor is much less depressing.
After reading Out of Oz and how they made a comic of Dorthys story I started thinking 🤔. Wizard of Oz is a pantomime of the story. Its fanciful and comical. Wicked the musical is the time clock dragon. The stage is literally the TCD. The novel is more or less the real story, and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (L. F. Baum) is a fairy tale version(propaganda)
@ Well... The Wicked Witch was never green in the old Oz books but they both have their political allegories and propaganda. Ozma literally says there’s no need to work in Oz and that everything is free yet one book literally stars an impoverished Emerald City citizen and Ozma should have known that because she has magic mirrors that look over every citizen at all times. I guess being a literal child in power might make her more idealistic though.
@@illiatiia My favorite genre of videos are out-there hypotheses about a game I have 0 interest in playing or even watching an actual playthrough of. I just wanna hear these people piece together the cobwebs of plot and story to make it unknowingly their own. Listening to an actual breakdown of my favorite book as an 18 year old and all the characters? That would be a delight.
I've always favoured the interpretation that the Wicked Witch of the West isn't defeated by a bucket of water because of a chemical allergy or because she's not corporeal enough, but because her power over Dorothy (and anyone else in Oz) is through fear and subjugation and any act of defiance and humiliation could reduce her to nothing. A running theme of Baum's book is that it is your actions toward others which defines you, not what you claim to be. The Wizard can spread the word of his great power all he wishes, but it's all smoke and mirrors. The Scarecrow, Tin Woodsman and Lion perceive themselves to be brainless, heartless and cowardly, even if their deeds prove otherwise, and it's through acknowledgment by others that they see themselves differently. The silver shoes can only take Dorothy home after she has learned this lesson: the magic of Oz is very karmic and symbolic like that, it's not a rigid system. Anything can gain or lose magical power depending on the will and intentions of the holder. The Witch is similar to the Wizard in how artificial her power truly is, but unlike him she cannot handle being humbled by a child, so he lives and returns home while she dies in humiliation. The 1939 film adds more to this with the introduction of Miss Gulch as a real-world bully who intimidates Dorothy and her family into giving up Toto. Miss Gulch is only as powerful as her influence over others allows her to be, and so is the Witch. One of my biggest grievances with Wicked (book and musical) is how it trades off much of this whimsical and metaphorical magic for a more literally minded approach.
@@tiffprendergast At the start of The Wizard of Oz, while Dorothy is still in Kansas, Miss Gulch (played by the same actress as the Witch) claims that Toto trespassed on her property and bit her leg. She uses a letter from the sheriff to convince Uncle Hennery and Auntie Em to give her Toto so he can be put down. Luckily Toto escapes, but it's the inciting incident which makes Dorothy run away from home.
Indeed! She only cries once at what one might call a pivotal point in her relationship with Fiyero and immediately reaches for a towel because the tears burn her skin, right? That's what I recall, at least.
Does she bathe or drink water? There are many inconsistencies. I wish there was a way where the public could act as contributing editors….filling in the gaps and resolving glaring plot holes. MaGuire missed quite a bit.
@@GMAMEC She doesn't bathe, and uses a special oil to clean her body. As for drinking water, she's never seen doing it but I'm not entirely sure how she gets around that. Maybe she gets hydration from other liquids, like milk and they don't affect her?
@@GMAMEC ... how is it inconsistent? If you're already gonna make up some mysterious condition that makes water burn someone's skin, you might as well make it so they don't need to drink water to survive.
Just finished the book today, so it's still fresh: Elphaba does mention in the book the fact that tears burns her skin - both when she cries and when she wipes someone else's tears (she sees it as a great sacrifice). That being said, the musical treats Elphaba's "water allergy" very differently than the book. I don't want to spoil act II for those who haven't seen the show, but I believe in the show, the water allergy is mostly folklore, and not mentioned or confirmed by Elphaba herself.
You’re correct, she’s not allergic to water in the musical. Heck, Elphaba literally sings “I’m Not That Girl” in the rain and doesn’t burn even a little bit!
Okay so the amount of times you said “we don’t have time for this” specifically regarding Fiyero means we need a Fiyero themed video all on its own correct??
I HAVE A THEORY! This is brilliant Leena! 👏💚 From 8 mins 30 secs, you talk about Elphaba's birth. When you said that Elphaba was aware ("fast developing senses") as a newborn baby...would she not then have been aware that they wanted to drown her?...hence why she is (also) afraid of water?...because it was to be used to murder her on the day of her birth. And perhaps, just as Elphaba is so self aware and chose her own name, as an infant, she also chose her own "achilles heel"...her own fear...her own death. Does this check out? I saw the musical years ago and was put off by the cast who couldn't sing. I can't wait to read the novel and see the movie. After watching this, I am keen to revisit Oz and understand the worlds properly this time. Thanks for sharing this Leena! Nice editing Craig (or and Leena)!
This was my exact interpretation when I read the book last week. There are several points in the book where Elphaba subconsciously influences and magically alters the world. She freezes a lake by walking on it Elsa style She kills a kid who is bullying her son by thinking about it She sends a swarm of bees to attack the cook who is abusing his dog (This is just a theory) I even think she probably magically convinced her son, with him being born roughly 9 months after Fiero's death at the hand of the wizards men (but that could be natural conception, he was "physical" with Elphaba the day he died) She thought water would kill her, so it did
I do not agree that this was silly!! As someone currently turning their dissertation into a 30 min presentation for a conference - I can fully appreciate how much work goes into returning to work like this, and performing it in this way. You made it so accessible, so interesting, and intriguing, and got me wanting to pursue study into it myself. I LOVED all the theoretical discourse, and how you wove your own into dialogue with established voices. Really really impressive. Please don't ever call your work silly. I LOVED every second of this. Thank you, from one literature nerd to another!
26:53 I actually really like the idea that while the wizard can _read_ the book, it's only Elphaba that can _use_ it. Because she's not just of our world, where the language comes from, but also of Oz, where the language has power.
This take is so insane and I love it so much. I wanted this video to be ten hours long. Thank you so much for making this. The idea of Elphaba being aware she’s in a story and she knows her context and her fate is FASCINATING, especially when you look at the Time Dragon Clock. At the end of the book, when she sees the show and learns that the wizard is her father, she also basically learns how her fate is sealed. The man who travels with the clock seems to be from another world (perhaps ours?) and he knows her fate is sealed and he exists across dimensions solely to protect the Grimmerie. I also loved your discussion of the different worlds. The other world (our world) is treated as heaven to the unionists in Oz, and Elphaba doesn’t believe in it as a staunch atheist. To find out she is a child of both worlds also might mean her father’s religion is correct after all. It is also interesting how our world is terrifying to her because of the thought of oceans. When she hears the other world has oceans, she is repulsed. And she has a nightmare about the wizard trying to swim in the ocean and getting knocked down by waves. Ooooh I love this omg I want to have a whole discussion with you
Also not to discredit your multiverse theory, but at the end of the video you say that because she was born of the world where green witches exist (aka born of the 1995 post MGM film real world) that is why she can be destroyed by water. But in wicked, the real world is still in 1900 (or more accurately, between 1901-1909) because when Dorothy gets to Boq’s house she has a whole discussion with him about the current President, Theodore Roosevelt
If Elphaba is made of ink, wouldn’t it be true that all Oz characters are also susceptible to death-by-dousing? It can’t be ink, it must have something to do with her green skin, or her half-human parentage, as those two aspects mark her different from other Oz characters at her introduction. There are a few possibilities that could fully explain her weakness to water in the text of Wicked: 1. That Elphaba’s green skin is a result of the Wizard’s green potion mixing with her blood. If we assume that the Wizard’s foreign chemicals are also the cause of Elphaba’s weakness and therefore her death, it is the chemicals that represent corruption in the pristine fairytale world of Oz. Her susceptibility to water specifically is because water is a purifying substance in religious and fictional narratives, similar to fire (and water burns her.) In that way, the water is cleansing Oz of the corruption and damage inflicted by the Wizard. The Wizard was not supposed to come to Oz; Elphaba is the manifestation of this mistake; her death means Oz can return to its intended state (assuming that fictional worlds do not exist for the purpose of enabling their stories.) 2. That her weakness to water is only explained by her self-awareness as a character; because she is half-human, she is aware on a conscious level from birth of her own destiny as a witch as well as the full human, “Western” cultural context of being a witch. By knowing this, she becomes weak to water. Anyway, thank goodness someone is taking the wicked book as the eminent text over the musical! I heavily dislike its dumbed-down interpretation of the themes of the novel. My least favorite part in the musical is when the Bad Police show up and drag Dr. Dillamond away, it’s so on-the-nose that it distances audience members from the true mechanisms of fascism, thereby making them harder to recognize. Elphaba’s story is partially one of a lone activist who dies for nothing after believing she is powerless to change her world. There are so many fascinating ideas proposed in the Wicked book that its musical’s overpowering use of clichés is insulting to the source material and the audience’s intelligence, especially with regards to portrayal of propaganda and fascist regimes.
Maybe shes "self aware" of how she dies, not necessarily why. While knowing, maybe she believes it would kill her, and through that belief, it's what actually melts her. A self-full filing prophecy, as well as a paradox
While I agree they dumbed down themes in the musical, the musical was undoubtedly a large amount of people’s first introduction to the story, including mine. Which would lead them to read the book and learn more in depth about the story. Also! It’s a musical with a limited run time so they generally don’t have the time to show subtleties and theater especially musical theater isn’t well known for being subtle, they must play to the farthest seat.
I love the musical, but I also happen to agree with you. I just wish the book was the biggest cultural zeitgeist of the two. It's one of my favorite novels since I was a kid and I still have my original copy from the 90s, worn and with falling out pages from years of being read over and over.
This was great! I haven't read Wicked but went through that Broadway phase where I was obsessed with it like every theatre kid of a certain age (ahem) but the metatextual analysis of Elphaba as self-aware was great! Also props for finding a way to get paid to explain your thesis, the academic dream come true.
Still here! Love the idea of her eventual intertexuality and self-awareness as character retroactively being the reason she could be destroyed by water in the first book which pre-dates any possibility of intersexuality by being, at the time, the only text. If she has the ability to rewrite and participate in the creation of herself, she’d be able to do that across texts within her universe-spanning existence. Thank you for sharing, 21-year-old Leena!
@nickicouture7297 It is a grimmerie in Wicked/Oz (it's spelt grimmerie rather than grimoire in the book, but it's a play on that word). Leena put the definition of the actual word in the video and wasn't sure how to pronounce it, hence my comment. :)
I rarely comment on videos, but I cannot scroll away without letting you know that this video was just simply incredible. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say this is easily one of the best videos I've watched all year. The way you go about finding the answer and proving it is precise, well researched, meticulous and overall just so interesting. Very informative yet still gripping and entertaining at every new passage :) i loved it!! I hope to see more of this type of content🙏
Really enjoyed this analysis! I finished reading Wicked in November and was absolutely gobsmacked at how different the musical adaption is! My theory was that the Wizard of Oz is the tale that Ozian's tell each other, as it has evolved from the "Canon" of Wicked - it has been years since I've read the original book, though. Nice work, 21 year old Leena! Still here ;)
29:00 I am pretty sure in the novel (I will need to go back and reread it), Maguire shows what happens when Elphaba cries. She describes her tears as being painful and burning. If that's the case, I can't imagine having to go to the bathroom as Elphaba.
I adored this video and your analysis! And I think your argument is also consistent with her lack of vulnerability in the stage musical. One idea it made me think about, is that the history of theatre as a medium shows why is is not melted by water in the stage musical. Theatre is a live performance. It’s an oral record of storytelling. While of course still in a fairy tale, Elphaba is not being understood by the audience through the written word. She is also not captured in a moment in time like in a motion picture film. The audience exists in the world with her for the duration of the performance. They are a part of the universe too! And once the performance is over, there is no identical record of it. It (and Elphaba herself) only exists in the memories of those who experienced it. She cannot be destroyed by water because the form of theatre expresses her through sound and memory.
Omg this is definitely the coolest comment on this video. The idea that written Elphaba is meltable bc she is ink is crazy enough, and then applying the same logic to why water doesn't affect her in the stage production is brilliant! I *loooove* thinking about medium and its interactions and impacts on the story itself. (The profs in my literature bachelor's program always had us read the texts of plays as if they were books or short stories and never once showed us a video of a scene, or read something aloud, or acknowledged in any way that a stage play is *fundamentally* different than a purely written work, so I've got Big Feelings about this in particular 😆)
As someone who is currently working towards an MA in English, I found this delightful! Scholars do like their fluffy words in order to hit page/word counts! I'd love to see this published somewhere in a journal.
WOW what an incredible essay! I'm not surprised you got a first 😊 Elphaba as character who transcends narrative whilst influencing it - herself as intertextual - is an argument so ahead of its time. You've made my brain cogs whirl, and for that I'm very grateful: thank you!! (Weirdly, I miss writing essays like this! 😂Maybe I need to dabble in my spare time)
Leena- I’ve been a viewer of your channel for more than ten years, and what a delight it is to hear this argument after a decade of anticipation! The ideas you present are so interesting, and the lens of audience was fascinating framing. Thank you for sharing your insight and passion with us! 💚
there's a video in my recommended rn with the title "I Read All 4 Wicked Books to Find Out If Elphaba's 😺 Is Green" and i'm crying at the contrast. two types of people lmao ANYWAY i loved this so much. your take is fascinating
This was so fascinating. One thing - at @10:50 you say that Elphaba is scared of water in the musical, but she isn't. In the musical she knows water can't hurt her. At the end of one of the songs (maybe I'm not that girl?) she's standing in the rain, and Madame Morrible comes over and puts an umbrella over her and says "you mustn't get wet".
yeah im slightly confused by the lack of mention of this in the comments. because like, it’s pretty pivotal and explicit that she doesn’t die in the musical, whereas it’s somewhat ambiguous in the novels. in the musical she uses people’s misconceptions as a way to fake her death and flee to safety, treating the water idea as if it’s nothing more than a fringe rumor
What a great video! I actually wrote my master's thesis on wicked and the various versions of Oz after listening you talking about it yeas ago. You definitely inspired my research focus there 😂❤
As soon as you said you wrote your dissertation on Wicked, I thought “I wanna read that!”. I’ve been obsessed with this book since 2006 with NO ONE to talk to about it, or only shallow reads of the book, which was so complex and weird and satisfying and unsatisfying. Thank you
As someone who enjoys fandom discourse I Am Here For This. I read Wicked once and the writing style was difficult for me at the time. I am going to try rereading soon. I would Love more videos on these books. Every time you say “we don’t have time” in this video- I want that rant in a new video.
As a person who just read "Wicked" for the first time because of something you said in another video, I'm just enjoying my fall through the rabbit hole. I'll listen to every single thing you have to say about the topic, tbh ❤
It’s always such a pleasure to hear people’s thoughts on topics they’ve spent many hours studying, contemplating, and dissecting out of genuine interest! 😊 That said, this was very interesting and enjoyable- thank you for sharing! 🤗
I JUST finished the book having seen the movie and the musical recently and WOW what an insight you provide on these stories - pleaseeee provide us more literary analyses I love to hear you interpret and analyse these worlds!!!
I enjoyed your essay very much. Although I did not understand all of your points that you were making, you did a fabulous job of bringing together for different worlds. I would love to see the whole writing and how your thought process brought you to this place. Congratulations as I do believe you are quite brilliant!
Well, I thoroughly enjoyed this. 💚 I do not consider this silly at all, it was so much fun!! I miss the academic aspect of Uni. Wish I could go back and do it all over as a proper grown up. (Still here hah)
This is the single greatest out of nowhere TH-cam recommendation I've ever gotten, thank you so much! Also, this makes me realize "the Grimmerie is the Wizard of Oz book" isn't universally accepted??
Absolutely love the dedication you put into these videos and it's always a delight. Honestly, this is the type of content I need in a world like this. Silly yet clever, and entertaining.
Omg absolutely fantastic analysis!!!!!! I read somewhere a while ago that in the Baum universe the witch melts because she’s also a metaphor for fire it’s also why she’s afraid of the dark. But these works have been interpreted in soooo many ways honestly it could all mean a number of different things
What a great analysis. In the musical I tend to view the lethality of Elphaba's allegy to water as part of the hateful propaganda that the Wizard and Madame Morrble have spread about her and it's ironic that it is used to fake her death so she's free to live her best life. Incidentally, the Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion might be conspiring with the Scarecrow to make it seem like they hate Elphaba to fool the Wizard and his spies, since actually they all have reason to be grateful to Elphaba for saving them. In a way the same could be said of their book counterparts even though they are completely different characters since they and Dorothy have no intention of killing Elphaba like the Wizard wants them to.
i love this deep dive!! i have not read or watched any of the Wizard of Oz/Wicked movies/books/musical so very tangentially aware of the story, but really really love bringing old theses back
Had to listen at .75 speed to help my listening comprehension, but I made it to the end! Loved seeing the film, as someone who never saw the stage production and who has never read either book… and I loved your dissertation on how all the narratives are woven together! 🤯😆
How I wish I’d done my dissertation on something I actually was interested in! Rather than the ‘worthy’ topics I thought my English department was interested in. This is so worthy! Loved it!
I've watched this about 20 times with no signs of slowing down. I need an extended version of this where every time you say "we simply don't have time" you just insert a clip and GET INTO IT 😁
I got to the end of the video, more please. Also a thought popped into my head when you talked about how the green is sort of stage makeup. It says in the book Elphaba washes with oil, which all people who have to remove makeup should know, is really good at getting off makeup and facepaints. Less symbolic than water though.
Not only is this incredible, it has CHARTS that solidify all the amorphous thoughts I've had about fanfic in general and the worlds they occupy. (Like, multiple iterations of a single world necessarily distance that world from its origin -- so the essence of a character is the thing that's common to every interpretation. But that's tangential.) I love the idea of Elphaba being aware of being in a story. It's enlightening and maddening all at the same time and explains so much more than just the hydrophobia.
I loved this!!! Have been obsessed with Wicked (and before it the Wizard of Oz) my whole life, and this was so interesting. I have read the book but not for a while and I think it might be time for another go. I'm also DEEPLY obsessed with characters realising they are in a narrative and playing with that, although I haven't thought about it for Wicked. When you said that Elphaba was Wizard of Oz-aware I thought you were just going to say she was scared of water because she knows that is going to be her ending, but its so interesting thinking about her as made out of ink. THIRD THING IM OBSESSED WITH is thinking about books as physical objects. I think this was not an unhinged video at all and in fact an extremely normal response to this book :)))) also I think I am going to. now enjoy thinking about the Work/Universe/Character stuff wrt different types of fanfiction. Loved this so much!!!!
Need to hear all the parts "we don't have time for" badlyyyyyyy Also, not sure if you have seen it, but Dimension 20's Neverafter has the same kind of approach to their characters the way that Elphaba does. So much so that "The Authors" are the real authors of the character's stories but also become a fictitious part of the world as they attempt to meddle in its affairs. Don't really know why I commented this but it was extremely eye-opening to see the degrees of who Elphaba is in all the worlds and it hit me the same way Neverafter did.
It's probably that typically when a name uses a letter instead of a full name, it's mostly the middle name instead of the first name. Such as John F. Kennedy, Samuel L. Jackson, Mary J. Blige, George W. Bush, etc.
Wow. This is opening my mind to a whole new world. Thank you for sharing! As a Wizard of Oz fan that was recently introduced to the Wicked story, I am infatuated by how everything is related and ties together. Your explanation is very thorough and leaves me more excited to keep digging in further ❤
i love how many times you said “we simply don’t have time!” in a 39 minute video, like we all wouldn’t watch/listen to you talk about this for hours! 😂 i’ve been meaning to read wicked for such a long time, knowing you love it so much. a couple of weeks ago i was in a bookshop in japan with a very limited english language section, but wicked was one of the few available to me, the time had finally come. i began curious and quickly didn’t want to put it down. i finished it this past saturday, saw the movie on sunday, and am now obsessed with both, as well as scrutinising and rationalising the changes from the book. tldr; thank you for providing me with a new all-time favourite book! and just saying, i would watch you talk about wicked for HOURS!
always love your videos Leena, i'm so excited to finally get your diss video! would absolutely love any more videos you care to make about wicked, all the tangents, what you thought of the movie, etc :)
I started Wicked in the pandemic and put it down pretty quickly. I didn't think I'd ever pick it up again but I saw this video and thought I'd give it another go and I'm so glad I did! I just finished it and came straight here to watch this video (which is great btw!). Your theory definitely fits in with what I sensed as an increasingly desperate attempts by Elphaba to try and get the other characters to acknowledge that they are not in control of their own destinies, and not just in the sense that nobody is, almost as if they're in ... a prewritten story! I was shocked at quite how detached the stage show plot line is from the Wicked book - I knew it was different but didn't realise the only things that really stay the same are that Elphie and Glinda got to uni together lol Have ordered the rest of the books in the series now so am officially hooked
First time viewer. I really enjoyed it. I never read Wicked nor saw the stage version. I grew up loving the Wizard of Oz as many did. I watched the film with family over the Thanksgiving holiday and enjoyed it, was not overtaken but my interest in the lore was somewhat reignited. So, I really enjoyed this and it gave a lot of food for thought that will enter conversations from here forward.
There’s an webcomic series on Webtoons called “Forever After” that explores the universe and theories you talk about! Literally explores the idea of villains gaining consciousness in their own fables and knowing they’re not real. Interesting to compare.
Thank you for sharing. I have been curious since you mentioned you paper. Though the language may have some fluff, it is a great pulling of resources for those of us who have not done a deep dive😊
Many people don't remember Baum wrote many more Oz books. Example he eventually decides no one in Oz can die. The Tinman even meets parts of his body again. So, if no one can die, where are the witches from the first book? Haha, continuity wasn't important back then, but rather stories in that world.
from what i remember, the musical only mentioned her weakness to water once, and it was from a village rumor. aka it wasn't true. and by the end of the show, she went along with the rumor in order to escape.
I’m so glad you’re talking about the book now wicked is popular, and not being like “omg it’s so weird whys it so weird. Unreadable because weird!” THANK YOU
Theory: If elphaba is born of two worlds(mom from oz, dad from Nebraska) , and her coming out green in the oz world makes me think if she traveled to the Sepia world of Nebraska where Dorothy comes from, she’s have a normal skin complexion 🤔with how green shows up on those films without color. Just a thought.
this is so wonderful!! i had read the entire series earlier this year and didn't see many youtube videos about the book. i loved this. side note: the second half of grimoire is pronounced like 'armoire' 😊💕
this is the first video of yours that i’m watching and every time you said “we simply don’t have time” i was like, says who!! i stuck around until the end and would love even more :)
Absolutely NOT silly!! I honestly look forward to watching it another time or two two digest it all. For someone who loved the 39 film growing up; for whom reading an advance copy of Wicked changed my life almost 30 years ago; who has read Wicked more time than any other book along with the first three sequels (and listened to them on audiobooks); who loves the musical, and the movie even more; who has spent hours watching and reading about them all, and who will happily talk about them to anyone, I absolutely loved this!!! Thank you!!!
I made it to the end! academic paper speak normally makes my brain go numb, but i hung on every word! the idea of elphie’s magic being something similar to a lucid dream is. absolutely riveting; as she becomes aware she is a character she can control the narrative. fantastic work! :)
omg i love this! i've always wondered about the water since seeing it when i saw it in the theatre, so thanks for this!! also iconic of you to write a dissertation on wicked
Still here! ❤ Immediately made me think what could be the thing that we (in our "real" world) might be afraid of, as it would erase us and/or our roles... being forgotten perhaps? 🤔 Anyways , brilliant ✨ Thank you for this video Leena! I would watch a two-hour essay on this, going more into the details of different plot points.
A little dark but I always took that she was afraid of water in the book as a trauma response because someone may have tried to drown her as a child. I think the reason she melts in the original Wizard of Oz is because it's a dramatic way of offing a character in a children's story without blood etc., and that evil is purified from water eludes to christian baptism and the connotations of cleanliness being close to godliness etc. I don't think she's made of ink because then everyone else in Oz would be, too. She'd probably be less likely to be made of ink because she's half human. I like a lot of where young Leena was pulling from but I think trying to retcon a meaning for something which was reinterpreted by different authors from varied backgrounds might be an inherently flawed question/argument. Still absolutely love this video!
Oh also, in the stage show she doesn't actually melt, indicating that she knows the rumours of what will kill her which is how she plans to set up her own fake death via water.
I always enjoy watching video presentations by people who are truly passionate about the subject matter, so for this to be about one of my favourite fictional universes made this a must watch from start to finish!
on another youtube video, i saw a comment that said The Wizard of Oz was from Dorothy's perspective, Maguire's novel was from Elphaba's perspective, ang the musical was from Glinda's perspective and that really stuck with me
That makes me question how Dorothy and Glinda can be so positive when Every single main character in all of the Wicked books are just dystopian nightmares. The spin-off series with The Brides of Maracoor is much less depressing.
After reading Out of Oz and how they made a comic of Dorthys story I started thinking 🤔. Wizard of Oz is a pantomime of the story. Its fanciful and comical. Wicked the musical is the time clock dragon. The stage is literally the TCD. The novel is more or less the real story, and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz (L. F. Baum) is a fairy tale version(propaganda)
@ Well... The Wicked Witch was never green in the old Oz books but they both have their political allegories and propaganda. Ozma literally says there’s no need to work in Oz and that everything is free yet one book literally stars an impoverished Emerald City citizen and Ozma should have known that because she has magic mirrors that look over every citizen at all times. I guess being a literal child in power might make her more idealistic though.
@haneef1551 I love watching The Wizard of Oz. I also love shouting "Propaganda!!" every now and then. 😂
The first half of the book is explicitly NOT from elphaba’s perspective… so…
Every time Leena says "We simply don't have time" I'm getting ready to wait another 10 years for a Wicked video essay
That's exactly what I came here to say lol WE GOT TIME!! Talk for 2 more hours please
We would like to give you more time!!!
Yes! If you're willing to talk, I'm very willing of hearing it! We would like to give you more time
I cracked up when she said “it’s actually Fiyero’s castle.. we simply don’t have time!!” lol!! Hilarious. Amazing video! Brilliant
YES. please take more of my time in fact
you keep saying we don't have time as if your audience wouldn't absolutely eat up a 3 hour lecture on this
We have time enough for it! We’ll make time!
I was just going to comment this LOL please, let's make time.
I once watched a 10 ish hour video on Victorious and I hardly watched the show as a kid...
@@illiatiia My favorite genre of videos are out-there hypotheses about a game I have 0 interest in playing or even watching an actual playthrough of. I just wanna hear these people piece together the cobwebs of plot and story to make it unknowingly their own. Listening to an actual breakdown of my favorite book as an 18 year old and all the characters? That would be a delight.
@@illiatiiai just finished a 12 hour one about Glee....I've never even watched the show😭
I've always favoured the interpretation that the Wicked Witch of the West isn't defeated by a bucket of water because of a chemical allergy or because she's not corporeal enough, but because her power over Dorothy (and anyone else in Oz) is through fear and subjugation and any act of defiance and humiliation could reduce her to nothing. A running theme of Baum's book is that it is your actions toward others which defines you, not what you claim to be. The Wizard can spread the word of his great power all he wishes, but it's all smoke and mirrors. The Scarecrow, Tin Woodsman and Lion perceive themselves to be brainless, heartless and cowardly, even if their deeds prove otherwise, and it's through acknowledgment by others that they see themselves differently. The silver shoes can only take Dorothy home after she has learned this lesson: the magic of Oz is very karmic and symbolic like that, it's not a rigid system. Anything can gain or lose magical power depending on the will and intentions of the holder. The Witch is similar to the Wizard in how artificial her power truly is, but unlike him she cannot handle being humbled by a child, so he lives and returns home while she dies in humiliation. The 1939 film adds more to this with the introduction of Miss Gulch as a real-world bully who intimidates Dorothy and her family into giving up Toto. Miss Gulch is only as powerful as her influence over others allows her to be, and so is the Witch. One of my biggest grievances with Wicked (book and musical) is how it trades off much of this whimsical and metaphorical magic for a more literally minded approach.
Im glad you shared this interpretation. It’s absolutely beautiful.
Why give up Toto
@@tiffprendergast At the start of The Wizard of Oz, while Dorothy is still in Kansas, Miss Gulch (played by the same actress as the Witch) claims that Toto trespassed on her property and bit her leg. She uses a letter from the sheriff to convince Uncle Hennery and Auntie Em to give her Toto so he can be put down. Luckily Toto escapes, but it's the inciting incident which makes Dorothy run away from home.
👏💚✨️
Elphaba only cries once in the book. They make it a point that she never cries otherwise. When she does, it does burn her.
Indeed! She only cries once at what one might call a pivotal point in her relationship with Fiyero and immediately reaches for a towel because the tears burn her skin, right? That's what I recall, at least.
I just saw the movie and this bugged me so much!
Does she bathe or drink water? There are many inconsistencies.
I wish there was a way where the public could act as contributing editors….filling in the gaps and resolving glaring plot holes. MaGuire missed quite a bit.
@@GMAMEC She doesn't bathe, and uses a special oil to clean her body. As for drinking water, she's never seen doing it but I'm not entirely sure how she gets around that. Maybe she gets hydration from other liquids, like milk and they don't affect her?
@@GMAMEC ... how is it inconsistent? If you're already gonna make up some mysterious condition that makes water burn someone's skin, you might as well make it so they don't need to drink water to survive.
Just finished the book today, so it's still fresh: Elphaba does mention in the book the fact that tears burns her skin - both when she cries and when she wipes someone else's tears (she sees it as a great sacrifice).
That being said, the musical treats Elphaba's "water allergy" very differently than the book. I don't want to spoil act II for those who haven't seen the show, but I believe in the show, the water allergy is mostly folklore, and not mentioned or confirmed by Elphaba herself.
You’re correct, she’s not allergic to water in the musical. Heck, Elphaba literally sings “I’m Not That Girl” in the rain and doesn’t burn even a little bit!
Fiyero also has a line in Thank Goodness that implies that the water thing is more of a hearsay.
"Forgiviness is the theme of the novel but we simply don't have time" I GOT TIME!!! I'M SAT!!! I GOT THOUGHTS ON THIS!!!!
elphaba: 🎵 i'm erasing myself from the narrative 🎵
Wrong musical honey, we'll have to let future historians wonder how I reacted when I saw this one.
Okay so the amount of times you said “we don’t have time for this” specifically regarding Fiyero means we need a Fiyero themed video all on its own correct??
If I were Gregory Maguire, knowing my work has inspired writing like this would make me so proud.
I HAVE A THEORY! This is brilliant Leena! 👏💚 From 8 mins 30 secs, you talk about Elphaba's birth. When you said that Elphaba was aware ("fast developing senses") as a newborn baby...would she not then have been aware that they wanted to drown her?...hence why she is (also) afraid of water?...because it was to be used to murder her on the day of her birth. And perhaps, just as Elphaba is so self aware and chose her own name, as an infant, she also chose her own "achilles heel"...her own fear...her own death. Does this check out? I saw the musical years ago and was put off by the cast who couldn't sing. I can't wait to read the novel and see the movie. After watching this, I am keen to revisit Oz and understand the worlds properly this time. Thanks for sharing this Leena! Nice editing Craig (or and Leena)!
Ooh I love this idea! Side note, what cast couldn’t sing?? That’s so sad
@TheLoonyLovebad1 I honestly can't remember...I saw it over a decade ago.
This was my exact interpretation when I read the book last week. There are several points in the book where Elphaba subconsciously influences and magically alters the world.
She freezes a lake by walking on it Elsa style
She kills a kid who is bullying her son by thinking about it
She sends a swarm of bees to attack the cook who is abusing his dog
(This is just a theory) I even think she probably magically convinced her son, with him being born roughly 9 months after Fiero's death at the hand of the wizards men (but that could be natural conception, he was "physical" with Elphaba the day he died)
She thought water would kill her, so it did
@@Extra-thoughts omg yes the frozen lake part also made me think of Elsa lmao
I love this take, thank you for sharing!!
I do not agree that this was silly!! As someone currently turning their dissertation into a 30 min presentation for a conference - I can fully appreciate how much work goes into returning to work like this, and performing it in this way. You made it so accessible, so interesting, and intriguing, and got me wanting to pursue study into it myself. I LOVED all the theoretical discourse, and how you wove your own into dialogue with established voices. Really really impressive. Please don't ever call your work silly. I LOVED every second of this. Thank you, from one literature nerd to another!
Agreed, from another litnerd>retired English teacher. Thank you for making cogs in my head that hadn't moved in too long spring to life!❤❤❤❤❤
I wrote a dissertation and I can't imagine reading it out loud to an audience like this! Also, I love this video.
26:53 I actually really like the idea that while the wizard can _read_ the book, it's only Elphaba that can _use_ it. Because she's not just of our world, where the language comes from, but also of Oz, where the language has power.
This take is so insane and I love it so much. I wanted this video to be ten hours long. Thank you so much for making this. The idea of Elphaba being aware she’s in a story and she knows her context and her fate is FASCINATING, especially when you look at the Time Dragon Clock. At the end of the book, when she sees the show and learns that the wizard is her father, she also basically learns how her fate is sealed. The man who travels with the clock seems to be from another world (perhaps ours?) and he knows her fate is sealed and he exists across dimensions solely to protect the Grimmerie. I also loved your discussion of the different worlds. The other world (our world) is treated as heaven to the unionists in Oz, and Elphaba doesn’t believe in it as a staunch atheist. To find out she is a child of both worlds also might mean her father’s religion is correct after all. It is also interesting how our world is terrifying to her because of the thought of oceans. When she hears the other world has oceans, she is repulsed. And she has a nightmare about the wizard trying to swim in the ocean and getting knocked down by waves. Ooooh I love this omg I want to have a whole discussion with you
Also not to discredit your multiverse theory, but at the end of the video you say that because she was born of the world where green witches exist (aka born of the 1995 post MGM film real world) that is why she can be destroyed by water. But in wicked, the real world is still in 1900 (or more accurately, between 1901-1909) because when Dorothy gets to Boq’s house she has a whole discussion with him about the current President, Theodore Roosevelt
As someone with a STEM degree I maybe understood about a third of this but it made a great video to crochet to
Heeeeeey! I also have a STEM degree and I’m also crocheting while I watch this!
I am an engineer and kept thinking, while listening, that I don't have the skill to follow this video at all.
Big same. Here for the vibes and interesting bits that I can comprehend
As someone with an English Literature degree, I can understand every word of this. Cheer up though, you're probably making more money than me 😂
Same here! Crocheting my Christmas gifts! About to graduate with my PhD but was totally lost by this.
If Elphaba is made of ink, wouldn’t it be true that all Oz characters are also susceptible to death-by-dousing? It can’t be ink, it must have something to do with her green skin, or her half-human parentage, as those two aspects mark her different from other Oz characters at her introduction. There are a few possibilities that could fully explain her weakness to water in the text of Wicked:
1. That Elphaba’s green skin is a result of the Wizard’s green potion mixing with her blood. If we assume that the Wizard’s foreign chemicals are also the cause of Elphaba’s weakness and therefore her death, it is the chemicals that represent corruption in the pristine fairytale world of Oz. Her susceptibility to water specifically is because water is a purifying substance in religious and fictional narratives, similar to fire (and water burns her.) In that way, the water is cleansing Oz of the corruption and damage inflicted by the Wizard. The Wizard was not supposed to come to Oz; Elphaba is the manifestation of this mistake; her death means Oz can return to its intended state (assuming that fictional worlds do not exist for the purpose of enabling their stories.)
2. That her weakness to water is only explained by her self-awareness as a character; because she is half-human, she is aware on a conscious level from birth of her own destiny as a witch as well as the full human, “Western” cultural context of being a witch. By knowing this, she becomes weak to water.
Anyway, thank goodness someone is taking the wicked book as the eminent text over the musical! I heavily dislike its dumbed-down interpretation of the themes of the novel. My least favorite part in the musical is when the Bad Police show up and drag Dr. Dillamond away, it’s so on-the-nose that it distances audience members from the true mechanisms of fascism, thereby making them harder to recognize. Elphaba’s story is partially one of a lone activist who dies for nothing after believing she is powerless to change her world. There are so many fascinating ideas proposed in the Wicked book that its musical’s overpowering use of clichés is insulting to the source material and the audience’s intelligence, especially with regards to portrayal of propaganda and fascist regimes.
Maybe shes "self aware" of how she dies, not necessarily why. While knowing, maybe she believes it would kill her, and through that belief, it's what actually melts her. A self-full filing prophecy, as well as a paradox
While I agree they dumbed down themes in the musical, the musical was undoubtedly a large amount of people’s first introduction to the story, including mine. Which would lead them to read the book and learn more in depth about the story.
Also! It’s a musical with a limited run time so they generally don’t have the time to show subtleties and theater especially musical theater isn’t well known for being subtle, they must play to the farthest seat.
I love the musical, but I also happen to agree with you. I just wish the book was the biggest cultural zeitgeist of the two. It's one of my favorite novels since I was a kid and I still have my original copy from the 90s, worn and with falling out pages from years of being read over and over.
Also by her being “half-real” wouldn't it make her more resistant to water? This theory is quite silly, how is she the only one affected by water.
This was great! I haven't read Wicked but went through that Broadway phase where I was obsessed with it like every theatre kid of a certain age (ahem) but the metatextual analysis of Elphaba as self-aware was great! Also props for finding a way to get paid to explain your thesis, the academic dream come true.
Still here! Love the idea of her eventual intertexuality and self-awareness as character retroactively being the reason she could be destroyed by water in the first book which pre-dates any possibility of intersexuality by being, at the time, the only text. If she has the ability to rewrite and participate in the creation of herself, she’d be able to do that across texts within her universe-spanning existence. Thank you for sharing, 21-year-old Leena!
I am astounded at your depth of thought and writing skill. I am so impressed, Leena!
Grimoire is grim-wa :) essentially. Living for this video.
I always thought that too! But everyone I hear talking about wicked calls it a grimmery. I always called it grim-wa
@nickicouture7297 It is a grimmerie in Wicked/Oz (it's spelt grimmerie rather than grimoire in the book, but it's a play on that word). Leena put the definition of the actual word in the video and wasn't sure how to pronounce it, hence my comment. :)
I've been saying it like noir
@@nickicouture7297in the Wicked setting, it’s not grim-wa. It’s not even spelled grimoire.
I pronounce the R, so grim-war/grim-wor (rhyming with noir)
I rarely comment on videos, but I cannot scroll away without letting you know that this video was just simply incredible. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say this is easily one of the best videos I've watched all year. The way you go about finding the answer and proving it is precise, well researched, meticulous and overall just so interesting. Very informative yet still gripping and entertaining at every new passage :) i loved it!! I hope to see more of this type of content🙏
Aw thank you so much that means a lot!
Leena: *Apologizing for one final graph*
Me: awwwww this is the last graph :
we would happily listen to all of your "we simply don't have time" tangents!! fantastic video
Really enjoyed this analysis! I finished reading Wicked in November and was absolutely gobsmacked at how different the musical adaption is!
My theory was that the Wizard of Oz is the tale that Ozian's tell each other, as it has evolved from the "Canon" of Wicked - it has been years since I've read the original book, though.
Nice work, 21 year old Leena!
Still here ;)
Omg I LOVE that idea, that it’s something that grew up within Oz 💚
29:00 I am pretty sure in the novel (I will need to go back and reread it), Maguire shows what happens when Elphaba cries. She describes her tears as being painful and burning. If that's the case, I can't imagine having to go to the bathroom as Elphaba.
I know someone allergic to water, so it's not unrealistic. 😅
There can never be too much of people talking knowledgeable and passionately about something. ❤ please more of this "unhinged" content 😊
I adored this video and your analysis! And I think your argument is also consistent with her lack of vulnerability in the stage musical. One idea it made me think about, is that the history of theatre as a medium shows why is is not melted by water in the stage musical. Theatre is a live performance. It’s an oral record of storytelling. While of course still in a fairy tale, Elphaba is not being understood by the audience through the written word. She is also not captured in a moment in time like in a motion picture film. The audience exists in the world with her for the duration of the performance. They are a part of the universe too! And once the performance is over, there is no identical record of it. It (and Elphaba herself) only exists in the memories of those who experienced it. She cannot be destroyed by water because the form of theatre expresses her through sound and memory.
Omg I LOVE THIS
@@leenanormsElphaba LIVES!!
Omg this is definitely the coolest comment on this video. The idea that written Elphaba is meltable bc she is ink is crazy enough, and then applying the same logic to why water doesn't affect her in the stage production is brilliant! I *loooove* thinking about medium and its interactions and impacts on the story itself. (The profs in my literature bachelor's program always had us read the texts of plays as if they were books or short stories and never once showed us a video of a scene, or read something aloud, or acknowledged in any way that a stage play is *fundamentally* different than a purely written work, so I've got Big Feelings about this in particular 😆)
As someone who is currently working towards an MA in English, I found this delightful! Scholars do like their fluffy words in order to hit page/word counts! I'd love to see this published somewhere in a journal.
WOW what an incredible essay! I'm not surprised you got a first 😊 Elphaba as character who transcends narrative whilst influencing it - herself as intertextual - is an argument so ahead of its time. You've made my brain cogs whirl, and for that I'm very grateful: thank you!! (Weirdly, I miss writing essays like this! 😂Maybe I need to dabble in my spare time)
Leena- I’ve been a viewer of your channel for more than ten years, and what a delight it is to hear this argument after a decade of anticipation! The ideas you present are so interesting, and the lens of audience was fascinating framing. Thank you for sharing your insight and passion with us! 💚
there's a video in my recommended rn with the title "I Read All 4 Wicked Books to Find Out If Elphaba's 😺 Is Green" and i'm crying at the contrast. two types of people lmao
ANYWAY i loved this so much. your take is fascinating
I already watched that one, I love gavin
You don't need to read all 4 to know that it is. It's mentioned in the first book
@@superhunksickle thank you for informing me of this
Yeah I saw that one too. Haven't dared click play lol
@@addisonratcatcher3287 Her 🐈 is green with black pubic hair that has a purple sheen.
During your discussion of her many names, I said "I LOVE THIS SO MUCH" at my phone, loud enough for my family to be concerned. 💚
This was so fascinating. One thing - at @10:50 you say that Elphaba is scared of water in the musical, but she isn't. In the musical she knows water can't hurt her. At the end of one of the songs (maybe I'm not that girl?) she's standing in the rain, and Madame Morrible comes over and puts an umbrella over her and says "you mustn't get wet".
yeah im slightly confused by the lack of mention of this in the comments. because like, it’s pretty pivotal and explicit that she doesn’t die in the musical, whereas it’s somewhat ambiguous in the novels. in the musical she uses people’s misconceptions as a way to fake her death and flee to safety, treating the water idea as if it’s nothing more than a fringe rumor
What a great video! I actually wrote my master's thesis on wicked and the various versions of Oz after listening you talking about it yeas ago. You definitely inspired my research focus there 😂❤
Still here 💚 love the idea of Elphaba being able to read The Wizard of Oz.
I'm so enamored by that idea. Such a good reading!
As soon as you said you wrote your dissertation on Wicked, I thought “I wanna read that!”. I’ve been obsessed with this book since 2006 with NO ONE to talk to about it, or only shallow reads of the book, which was so complex and weird and satisfying and unsatisfying.
Thank you
As someone who enjoys fandom discourse I Am Here For This.
I read Wicked once and the writing style was difficult for me at the time. I am going to try rereading soon. I would Love more videos on these books. Every time you say “we don’t have time” in this video- I want that rant in a new video.
Thank you for being unhinged Leena
I got to the end girl make more. I love your effort, bravory to share, and brillian silly mind. From a long time viewer thanks girl 😂❤
As a person who just read "Wicked" for the first time because of something you said in another video, I'm just enjoying my fall through the rabbit hole. I'll listen to every single thing you have to say about the topic, tbh ❤
not a dissertation without a cixous quotatation - ancient proverb
It’s always such a pleasure to hear people’s thoughts on topics they’ve spent many hours studying, contemplating, and dissecting out of genuine interest! 😊 That said, this was very interesting and enjoyable- thank you for sharing! 🤗
I JUST finished the book having seen the movie and the musical recently and WOW what an insight you provide on these stories - pleaseeee provide us more literary analyses I love to hear you interpret and analyse these worlds!!!
I enjoyed your essay very much. Although I did not understand all of your points that you were making, you did a fabulous job of bringing together for different worlds. I would love to see the whole writing and how your thought process brought you to this place. Congratulations as I do believe you are quite brilliant!
Exactly the nerdy deep dive we deserve. Thank you so much for sharing Leena💚
This scratched my brain in the most pleasant ways. Thank you, Leena!
Well, I thoroughly enjoyed this. 💚
I do not consider this silly at all, it was so much fun!! I miss the academic aspect of Uni. Wish I could go back and do it all over as a proper grown up.
(Still here hah)
This is the single greatest out of nowhere TH-cam recommendation I've ever gotten, thank you so much! Also, this makes me realize "the Grimmerie is the Wizard of Oz book" isn't universally accepted??
Absolutely love the dedication you put into these videos and it's always a delight. Honestly, this is the type of content I need in a world like this. Silly yet clever, and entertaining.
I would watch every Wicked deepdive you want to make, Leena. Compelling, unhinged, unparalleled.
Omg absolutely fantastic analysis!!!!!! I read somewhere a while ago that in the Baum universe the witch melts because she’s also a metaphor for fire it’s also why she’s afraid of the dark. But these works have been interpreted in soooo many ways honestly it could all mean a number of different things
YEEESSSS Leena I have been waiting for a breakdown of your dissertation all these years
First vid of yours I’ve watched and watched to the end. This was impressive af
Here til the end 💚 thoroughly enjoyed this presentation, especially liked your arguments for Elphaba being made of ink, and about the water in Oz
What a great analysis. In the musical I tend to view the lethality of Elphaba's allegy to water as part of the hateful propaganda that the Wizard and Madame Morrble have spread about her and it's ironic that it is used to fake her death so she's free to live her best life.
Incidentally, the Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion might be conspiring with the Scarecrow to make it seem like they hate Elphaba to fool the Wizard and his spies, since actually they all have reason to be grateful to Elphaba for saving them. In a way the same could be said of their book counterparts even though they are completely different characters since they and Dorothy have no intention of killing Elphaba like the Wizard wants them to.
Still here! This was a work of art, thank you. Much more interesting than my dissertation! The more unhinged Wicked videos, the better ✨️
This is such a satisfying theory to sit with; what a thought-provoking analysis!
i love this deep dive!! i have not read or watched any of the Wizard of Oz/Wicked movies/books/musical so very tangentially aware of the story, but really really love bringing old theses back
Had to listen at .75 speed to help my listening comprehension, but I made it to the end! Loved seeing the film, as someone who never saw the stage production and who has never read either book… and I loved your dissertation on how all the narratives are woven together! 🤯😆
How I wish I’d done my dissertation on something I actually was interested in! Rather than the ‘worthy’ topics I thought my English department was interested in. This is so worthy! Loved it!
I've watched this about 20 times with no signs of slowing down. I need an extended version of this where every time you say "we simply don't have time" you just insert a clip and GET INTO IT 😁
I got to the end of the video, more please.
Also a thought popped into my head when you talked about how the green is sort of stage makeup. It says in the book Elphaba washes with oil, which all people who have to remove makeup should know, is really good at getting off makeup and facepaints. Less symbolic than water though.
Not only is this incredible, it has CHARTS that solidify all the amorphous thoughts I've had about fanfic in general and the worlds they occupy. (Like, multiple iterations of a single world necessarily distance that world from its origin -- so the essence of a character is the thing that's common to every interpretation. But that's tangential.)
I love the idea of Elphaba being aware of being in a story. It's enlightening and maddening all at the same time and explains so much more than just the hydrophobia.
I loved this!!! Have been obsessed with Wicked (and before it the Wizard of Oz) my whole life, and this was so interesting. I have read the book but not for a while and I think it might be time for another go. I'm also DEEPLY obsessed with characters realising they are in a narrative and playing with that, although I haven't thought about it for Wicked. When you said that Elphaba was Wizard of Oz-aware I thought you were just going to say she was scared of water because she knows that is going to be her ending, but its so interesting thinking about her as made out of ink. THIRD THING IM OBSESSED WITH is thinking about books as physical objects. I think this was not an unhinged video at all and in fact an extremely normal response to this book :)))) also I think I am going to. now enjoy thinking about the Work/Universe/Character stuff wrt different types of fanfiction. Loved this so much!!!!
Need to hear all the parts "we don't have time for" badlyyyyyyy
Also, not sure if you have seen it, but Dimension 20's Neverafter has the same kind of approach to their characters the way that Elphaba does. So much so that "The Authors" are the real authors of the character's stories but also become a fictitious part of the world as they attempt to meddle in its affairs.
Don't really know why I commented this but it was extremely eye-opening to see the degrees of who Elphaba is in all the worlds and it hit me the same way Neverafter did.
Joining the chorus for a full length vid on Fiyero!! Loved this essay
Your explanation of the symbolism of water in relation to Elphaba was beautiful. Loved watching this!
34:13 It's L. Frank Baum. Why do people keep calling him Frank L Baum? I've seen this happen everywhere and it confuses the hell out of me.
It's probably that typically when a name uses a letter instead of a full name, it's mostly the middle name instead of the first name. Such as John F. Kennedy, Samuel L. Jackson, Mary J. Blige, George W. Bush, etc.
Wow. This is opening my mind to a whole new world. Thank you for sharing! As a Wizard of Oz fan that was recently introduced to the Wicked story, I am infatuated by how everything is related and ties together. Your explanation is very thorough and leaves me more excited to keep digging in further ❤
i love how many times you said “we simply don’t have time!” in a 39 minute video, like we all wouldn’t watch/listen to you talk about this for hours! 😂 i’ve been meaning to read wicked for such a long time, knowing you love it so much. a couple of weeks ago i was in a bookshop in japan with a very limited english language section, but wicked was one of the few available to me, the time had finally come. i began curious and quickly didn’t want to put it down. i finished it this past saturday, saw the movie on sunday, and am now obsessed with both, as well as scrutinising and rationalising the changes from the book. tldr; thank you for providing me with a new all-time favourite book! and just saying, i would watch you talk about wicked for HOURS!
always love your videos Leena, i'm so excited to finally get your diss video! would absolutely love any more videos you care to make about wicked, all the tangents, what you thought of the movie, etc :)
6:45, now picturing a delightful crossover…Mary Poppins hanging out with her buddy Elphaba in Oz.
I started Wicked in the pandemic and put it down pretty quickly. I didn't think I'd ever pick it up again but I saw this video and thought I'd give it another go and I'm so glad I did! I just finished it and came straight here to watch this video (which is great btw!). Your theory definitely fits in with what I sensed as an increasingly desperate attempts by Elphaba to try and get the other characters to acknowledge that they are not in control of their own destinies, and not just in the sense that nobody is, almost as if they're in ... a prewritten story!
I was shocked at quite how detached the stage show plot line is from the Wicked book - I knew it was different but didn't realise the only things that really stay the same are that Elphie and Glinda got to uni together lol
Have ordered the rest of the books in the series now so am officially hooked
My only thing is that the grimmerie is canonically the lesser key of Solomon in our world, not the original oz book.
You and your books and videos make me very happy. Thank you for being here.
First time viewer. I really enjoyed it. I never read Wicked nor saw the stage version. I grew up loving the Wizard of Oz as many did. I watched the film with family over the Thanksgiving holiday and enjoyed it, was not overtaken but my interest in the lore was somewhat reignited. So, I really enjoyed this and it gave a lot of food for thought that will enter conversations from here forward.
There’s an webcomic series on Webtoons called “Forever After” that explores the universe and theories you talk about! Literally explores the idea of villains gaining consciousness in their own fables and knowing they’re not real. Interesting to compare.
Thank you for sharing. I have been curious since you mentioned you paper. Though the language may have some fluff, it is a great pulling of resources for those of us who have not done a deep dive😊
Many people don't remember Baum wrote many more Oz books. Example he eventually decides no one in Oz can die. The Tinman even meets parts of his body again. So, if no one can die, where are the witches from the first book? Haha, continuity wasn't important back then, but rather stories in that world.
from what i remember, the musical only mentioned her weakness to water once, and it was from a village rumor. aka it wasn't true. and by the end of the show, she went along with the rumor in order to escape.
I’ve waited years for this video, and it did not disappoint 💚
Omg I haven't had your videos pop on my feed in far too long.
This was fantastic! Thanks for sharing Leena I have been waiting for this for years! Honestly I am in awe
I’m so glad you’re talking about the book now wicked is popular, and not being like “omg it’s so weird whys it so weird. Unreadable because weird!”
THANK YOU
love this!! now can we talk about how dialysis canonically exists in the oz of wicked the musical because that's been tormenting me for years
I just saw the movie and came straight here to finally watch your Wicked videos 😄 Loved this unhinged deep dive!
Theory: If elphaba is born of two worlds(mom from oz, dad from Nebraska) , and her coming out green in the oz world makes me think if she traveled to the Sepia world of Nebraska where Dorothy comes from, she’s have a normal skin complexion 🤔with how green shows up on those films without color. Just a thought.
this is so wonderful!! i had read the entire series earlier this year and didn't see many youtube videos about the book. i loved this. side note: the second half of grimoire is pronounced like 'armoire' 😊💕
this is the first video of yours that i’m watching and every time you said “we simply don’t have time” i was like, says who!! i stuck around until the end and would love even more :)
0:19 i have been obsessed with that eye wall next to you since right now ❤
Absolutely NOT silly!! I honestly look forward to watching it another time or two two digest it all. For someone who loved the 39 film growing up; for whom reading an advance copy of Wicked changed my life almost 30 years ago; who has read Wicked more time than any other book along with the first three sequels (and listened to them on audiobooks); who loves the musical, and the movie even more; who has spent hours watching and reading about them all, and who will happily talk about them to anyone, I absolutely loved this!!! Thank you!!!
My mind is blown!! I love your explanations about this!!! ❤❤❤
I made it to the end! academic paper speak normally makes my brain go numb, but i hung on every word! the idea of elphie’s magic being something similar to a lucid dream is. absolutely riveting; as she becomes aware she is a character she can control the narrative. fantastic work! :)
more of this please leena, most interesting video I’ve watched in a while, thanks for making it
omg i love this! i've always wondered about the water since seeing it when i saw it in the theatre, so thanks for this!! also iconic of you to write a dissertation on wicked
This was incredibly enjoyable and I'm here for all the Oz content
In the musical she’s not actually hurt by water, the munchkins think she is because her soul is so unclean
Still here! ❤ Immediately made me think what could be the thing that we (in our "real" world) might be afraid of, as it would erase us and/or our roles... being forgotten perhaps? 🤔
Anyways , brilliant ✨ Thank you for this video Leena! I would watch a two-hour essay on this, going more into the details of different plot points.
A little dark but I always took that she was afraid of water in the book as a trauma response because someone may have tried to drown her as a child. I think the reason she melts in the original Wizard of Oz is because it's a dramatic way of offing a character in a children's story without blood etc., and that evil is purified from water eludes to christian baptism and the connotations of cleanliness being close to godliness etc. I don't think she's made of ink because then everyone else in Oz would be, too. She'd probably be less likely to be made of ink because she's half human. I like a lot of where young Leena was pulling from but I think trying to retcon a meaning for something which was reinterpreted by different authors from varied backgrounds might be an inherently flawed question/argument. Still absolutely love this video!
Oh also, in the stage show she doesn't actually melt, indicating that she knows the rumours of what will kill her which is how she plans to set up her own fake death via water.
I always enjoy watching video presentations by people who are truly passionate about the subject matter, so for this to be about one of my favourite fictional universes made this a must watch from start to finish!