Years ago, I saw an interview with her in which she said that she enjoyed playing this role more than Laurey in Oklahoma, that Julie had more depth and was a tougher role to play. I think she's great in both, and what a voice!
To anyone saying that Julie is giving bad advice... that’s the point. You’re not supposed to agree with her. She’s not supposed to be right. This song and these lyrics explain the character’s thought process behind staying with Billy.
but what’s problematic is that she is spreading that advice to carrie and all those young girls, who may not understand that she’s standing by her man out of love, not because of her standing as a woman. the generalization of her situation with billy may lead to adverse effects with these others girls, like carrie who goes back to the man who wants to cage her and make her bear 9 children... julie is definitely a sympathetic character here and moral core of the show, but the message of this song can only be wildly misinterpreted through a contemporary lens
Alexis Sakellaris They changed the context of it in the revival which I thought worked well. If I remember correctly it was just her, Carrie, and Nettie onstage and Julie was almost singing to herself.
Alexis Sakellaris Also, the important distinction is that it’s the character’s actions and words that are problematic. The show itself isn’t necessarily problematic if said show isn’t promoting the character’s words and actions. Carousel is critical both of Billy’s actions and Julie’s advice. I think it’s just misunderstood by modern audiences.
this is a very emotional song if you stop to think about it. she sings this right before she loses him. she never gets a chance to tell him that she really loves him in spite of the mistakes he made
I loved a so-called "bad boy", and married him against my parents wishes, later to leave him by their coercion. I've never stopped loving him. I found him and went back to him 42 yrs. later. Unbelievingly, he never re-married, and still loved me too.We had a short couple of months together, before I lost him in death, 2yrs. ago. Though I'm thankful for the opportunity to reunite, I wish someone had told me the words to this song. What's the use of wondering if he's good or if he's bad, I'm his girl and he's my fella, and all the rest is Talk! I love you, Edward W. Purvis, Jr. (Feb.1, 1951-Feb.4, 2015) RIP
Thus is one of the most outstanding vocal performances of Shirley Jones's career, with superb backing by Maestro Alfred Newman and the 20th Century Studios Orchestra.
A beautiful song beautifully sung by Shirley Jones. Great expression - been there done that - heart broken and this really sums it all up. Magnificent! They don't write them like this anymore
So here’s my analysis. I know the message being portrayed is a controversial one. And it does seem difficult to grasp what was the intention behind it. I don’t actually know what the writer was thinking when he wrote this, but to me I feel like her message is deeper than what we see on the surface. It’s just like she says, it isn’t so much about weather anything is inherently “good” or if it’s “bad”, loving someone is a choice as much as it is not a choice. When you find that true soul connection with someone and it’s real, you see parts of that person that they hide from the rest of the world, you know a version of them that is rare to see. Julie brings out that softness and vulnerability inside of billy that he tries to bury. And he brings it out in her too. Many women who get stuck in relationships like this see these men as the lost little children they truly are, as people who lost their innocence too young and had to grow up too fast perhaps. They see past the facade and cut straight to the core, wanting to nurture that soul like a mother selflessly sacrifices herself for her own children. Loving unconditionally, asking for nothing in return. She truly loves him, despite his weaknesses. Because they are just a part of him, and to love someone is to accept the whole picture as it is. She understands him. And he knows she does. Which is why he gets so angry and hits her, projecting his shortcomings onto her. He can’t fool her, and he doesn’t know how to be that vulnerable, he doesn’t have the right tools. He carries a lot of shame and guilt and a sense of worthlessness that he covers in bravado and braggy confidence, he knows his reputation. And he’s very sensitive to how others see him. When he finds out he is going to be a father you can see how it gives him a sense of pride because his life now has a meaning and a respectable purpose. But just like he was a product of his circumstances, he ends up repeating the same cycle with his daughter being the next victim of unfortunate circumstances. So in order for her to not repeat his mistakes, he tries to go back and tell her to believe in herself. You can’t help what others think of you, just you worry about trying to like them, to loosely paraphrase the graduation speech. Julie always believed in billy. She’s never been scared of him, and she doesn’t let others tell her how she should feel or what is right for her, or societally politically correct. She said in the beginning she had no plans to marry. That already is an indication of how starkly different she is from the average girl in town, and how she views herself as an independent, autonomous being. She has her own mind and she’s telling the other girls to be free thinkers as well, to live their lives in whatever way feels right, or authentic to them. It’s not to encourage them to be in abusive relationships, or stay in one, it’s rather subjective. If it doesn’t feel right then listen to your gut. But what’s the sense in beating yourself up over loving who you love when it’s your opinion of yourself that really matters the most at the end of the day? Julie is a strong woman. Though she is maybe perceived as weak, she has her own agency. And it’s that strength of character and resilience, her realness about her that doesn’t need to compromise her more naturally soft feminine, tender qualities that billy falls in love with. But they both struggle with their vulnerability with each other out of fear. Still, they don’t need words to express that they love each other. Because there is a strong sense that they both already know it to be true.
What a wonderful song , one of Rodgers' and Hammerstein's best , beautifully sung , as ever , by Shirley Jones . I know the issues , but it can't detract from the beautiful melody , and sheer quality of the song .
The song, from Rodgers & Hammerstein's "Carousel," isn't about abuse. It is sung after a misunderstanding between lovers, Enoch and Carrie. Women are telling Carrie that all men are bad. Julie (Shirley Jones) responds by encouraging Carrie to learn to live with Enoch's faults, since she indeed loves him. ... "Carousel" is a bit of a weird, creepy musical (including suicide and reincarnation) but this isn't actually a creepy part; just brilliantly turned so recently by Amanda Palmer.
Because it's the internet, of course I'm going to respond to this post from 12 years ago! Yes, Julie is giving advice to Carrie, but it really is a look at Julie's psychological justifications for staying with Billy. She's giving advice based on the only romantic relationship she's ever known, which is toxic and unhealthy and with a damaged, arguably bad, person. So I'd say the song is totally about abuse! Which isn't a bad thing-it's not like Hammerstein is condoning abusive relationships. He's just exploring the psychology of domestic abuse victims, and the justifications they make to stay in their unhealthy relationships. Anyway, I hope the last 12 years have been kind to you!
Wonderful to find this song on here. I agree things aren't made in the same way anymore. While the song can be "twisted" to mean "stay in an abusive relationship", I think what the actual song is saying is that love is precious, it doesn't grow on trees, and no matter where it comes from you should always focus more on the love, and worry less about everything that'll distract you from finding love and not enjoying the real gift that love is.
Shirley Jones sings this beautifully. I also like Sally Murphy (in the 1994 revival) and a lot of the others who have acted/sung this challenging role, like Jan Clayton, Joanna Riding, Jessie Mueller and Kelli O’Hara. No disrespect to Phoebe and Henry Ephron ( and I met both) but their screenplay was not totally fair to Julie’s character, as she has some important lines in the show that weren’t used ( such as Billy turning gentle when listening to the music from the carousel ). Jones was only about 20-21 yrs when filming this/ the clambake was done on a set but the rowboat shot when she starts to pursue Billy was outdoors/she supposedly hurt her foot & ankle in that scene. This song has taken a lot of criticism over the years-Ferenc Molnar who wrote the original Liliom supposedly had a rough marriage and slapped his young daughter, and the story was intended as an apology for such behavior, but as Kelli O’Hara says as Julie in the NY Philharmonic production, unhappiness and a quick temper “doesn’t excuse it.”
I grew up with Carousel playing in the background. It was one of my mother's favorites. But it was also the most damaging thing I could have ever heard as a child. This song is a study in convincing someone that an abusive relationship is wonderful and romantic. I realized, when I was in my late 40s, that every single relationship I had up to that point was a replay of Julie Jordan looking for Billy Bigelow. I even wore my hair like Julie. This is definitely a case in point of make sure that you are careful what you let your children listen to. My mom and dad had a wonderful and loving relationship, nothing at all like this one. But this, and a lot of the other songs she sings in this musical, planted the seeds early on how a relationship should be. Had I never heard these songs, I probably would have been a lot happier. Thankfully I figured it out in time. Be careful what you let your children listen to. Swear words aren't the only thing you need to worry about.
Have to disagree. Billy Bigelow was proud and poor and loved Julie but he wasn't abusive to her. He died in a botched robbery trying to get money for her and her baby. The song is about love and acceptance but does not include abuse. Please do not blame your lack of happiness on a song. There may be other underlying factors.
Actually, he did abuse her. There's a line at the end of the movie where she says something to the effect of "Have you ever had a slap that felt like a kiss?". That is definitely abuse.
I use to think this musical was kind of sad due to choices billy makes: hitting Julie, taking part in the robbery to support his family because he was too self-centered to know what being a father really meant thinking about someone other than himself. Now I am beginning to see the happy ending of the musical. Billy got a chance to redeem himself in Julie's eyes and to send a massage to his daughter that in spite of the mistakes he made she had to stand on her own two feet.
@@ericgrosch8073 he was sent from heaven to give his daughter the message that in spite of the mistakes he made his daughter has to feel good about herself. his daughter was feeling really bad because everybody in town was kind of like bullying her and telling her how bad her father was. she thought that because of the mistakes her father made it was a reflection on her as a human being.
"what's the use of wondering." It works both ways. If you are truly in love with someone, you forget their faults, even if your heart tells you, it's wrong, you follow blindly. "When he/she wants your kisses, you will give them to the lad/lass and anywhere he/she leads you, you will walk and anytime he/she needs you, you'll go running there like mad. He/she's your girl/fella, and all the rest is talk"
some lines of a song hit home more than others-my lover was a :bad" guy but our love made hm into a very good man-whats the use of wondering? you just hope your love will be the key
Beautiful, ironic song.Just as Julie ends it, Billy and Jigger are rowing across to rob the warehouse.The effort will end in Billy's death in Julie's arms.Billy is always her "fella" up to the end and beyond.
just hear me out: I am not saying what Billy did was right, he made some terrible mistakes including committing a robbery and leaving his wife penniless with a baby coming. however, I am the kind of person who tries not to get stuck on one single perspective. I try to look at the "other side of the coin" in all honesty I don't think that Billy was really a bad man at heart. I think that some of the mistakes he made were due to the fact that he never cared much about anybody except himself in his life. I think that Billy would have made better choices if he had had experience with caring for other people.
I agree with you! And the line 'yes, it's possible to be hit, hit real hard and for it not to hurt at all' also bugs me, it's soooooooo wrong!! I try to think what she really means is, in this song: screw what every one else thinks, if you love him love him, and with that line: she understood why Billy hit her because he was so frustrated, and there is more to him than than a man who hit her, but still... that really doesn't make it right in the slightest...
Lotte Bee In the NY Philharmonic a line was added for Julie, as Billy has just died, where she says she understood his unhappiness but that doesn’t excuse his behavior. And back in 1993 in director Nicholas Hytner’s revival, he has Billy listening to Julie’s responses to Louise, while he is shaking his head and exclaiming “No!”- so he was aware that his lashing out was impulsive and wrong.
This is a kind of sad scene if you take a look at it: This scene takes place right before she loses him. She never got a chance to tell him she really loved him
yeah, that's the point. i was so confused for such a long time until i understood it's meant to feel wrong because it is - it reveals the thoughts behind someone who's been abused for years. poignantly tragic.
What’s the use of wond’rin’ If he’s good or if he’s bad, Or if you like the way he wears his hat? Oh, what’s the use of wond’rin’ If he’s good or if he’s bad? He’s your feller and you love him- That’s all there is to that. Common sense may tell you That the endin’ will be sad And now’s the time to break and run away. But what’s the use of wond’rin’ If the endin’ will be sad? He’s your feller and you love him- There’s nothin’ more to say. Somethin’ made him the way that he is, Whether he’s false or true. And somethin’ gave him the things that are his- One of those things is you. So, when he wants your kisses You will give them to the lad, And anywhere he leads you, you will walk. And anytime he needs you, You’ll go runnin’ there like mad. You’re his girl and he’s your feller- And all the rest is talk.
Also I'd like to add: Love the person you're with, accept them with their faults (because you have them too is implied), don't go looking for faults, because that's all you'll find if you focus on it, just focus on love, because (as I said earlier) it doesn't grow on trees.
I don't think what she's saying is "wrong" as such, a lot of couples fall in love and stay in love without rhyme or reason or being particularly compatible characters and would do anything for each other. In Julie and Bily's case it went tragically wrong, of course.
THIS SONG SENDS A REALLY POWERFUL MESSEGE. DUE TO SOME OF THE CHOICES HE MADE BILLY IS NOT SO EASY TO LOVE. BUT JULIE IS BASICLY SAYING THAT THERE ARE SOME GOOD PARTS TO HIM TOO AND SHE NEEDS TO EMBRACE THEM. IT IS SO SAD. RIGHT AFTER THIS SCENE SHE LOSES HIM.
The meaning by comment this video is of course to say somethings about her singing. Shirley Jones is a incredible singer, and wow how adorable she looks in this video.
And the heartwarming climax involves an abusive husband returning from the grave to slap his daughter, and by whispering "I love you" once instantly excuses the repulsively violent way he treated Julie?
I am a new age feminist and this is a wild comment lmfao. Out of context, this song is beautiful and so true. IN THE CONTEXT, she is staying with her abuser. It is nothing to do with feminism; it was sad AND lovely then, and it is the same now.
HEAR ME OUT: I AM NOT SAYING WHAT BILLY DID WAS RIGHT. HOWEVER IF PEOPLE TAKE A MORE CLOSER LOOK AT HIM THEY MAY REALIZE THAT BILLY NEVER MEANT TO HIT JULIE. HE DID IT OUT OF FRUSTRATION.
captainpanic08 You’re not supposed to agree with Julie... it’s the character’s worldview, and she’s trying to justify to everyone why she stays with Billy. That’s why the chorus joins in, (cut from this clip) singing that common sense says she should leave him, but she is in denial.
I feel like her message is deeper than that, it’s like she says, it isn’t so much about weather anything is inherently “good” or if it’s “bad”, loving someone is a choice as much as it is not a choice. When you find that connection with someone and it’s real, you see parts of them that the rest of the world doesn’t get to see, Julie brings out that softness and vulnerability inside of billy that he tries to bury. Many women who get stuck in relationships like this see these men as the lost little children they truly are, as people who lost their innocence too young and had to grow up too fast perhaps, they see past the facade and cut straight to the core, wanting to nurture that soul like a mother selflessly sacrifices herself for her own children. Unconditionally, asking for nothing in return. She truly loves him, despite his flaws. She understands him. And he knows she does. Which is why he gets so angry and hits her. He can’t fool her, and he doesn’t know how to be that vulnerable, he doesn’t have the right tools. He carries a lot of shame that he covers in bravado and braggy confidence, he knows his reputation. And he’s very sensitive to how others see him. Just like his daughter. Who couldn’t help the circumstances she was born into. But Julie doesn’t care about any of that. She’s not scared of him, she doesn’t let others tell her how she should feel or what is right for her, or societally politically correct. She said in the beginning she had no plans to marry. That already is an indication of how starkly different she is from the average girl, and how she views herself as an independent, autonomous being. She has her own mind and she’s telling the other girls to live their lives in whatever way feels right, or authentic to them as well. It’s not to encourage them to be in abusive relationships, it’s rather subjective. But simply to live your life because what’s the sense in beating yourself up over loving who you love when it’s your opinion of yourself that really matters the most at the end of the day. Julie is a strong woman. Though she is perceived as weak, she has her own agency. And it’s that strength of character and resilience, her realness about her that doesn’t need to compromise her more naturally soft feminine, tender qualities that billy falls in love with. But they both struggle with vulnerability. Still, they don’t need words to express that they love each other. Because they both already know it to be true.
There is also the line "something gave him the things that are his / one of those things is you". It's a horrible line - she reduces herself to a THING, an object, belonging to a man. What she means, about love and forgiveness and understanding, is right. But the lyrics are just wrong.
That's how it was then. You can spend your life going back over history, thousands of years, of wrong attitudes and treatments, but all that would happen is you'd get more screwed up and change nothing. Move forward, change things that can be changed now and in the future. Some point in that.
Years ago, I saw an interview with her in which she said that she enjoyed playing this role more than Laurey in Oklahoma, that Julie had more depth and was a tougher role to play. I think she's great in both, and what a voice!
To anyone saying that Julie is giving bad advice... that’s the point. You’re not supposed to agree with her. She’s not supposed to be right. This song and these lyrics explain the character’s thought process behind staying with Billy.
but what’s problematic is that she is spreading that advice to carrie and all those young girls, who may not understand that she’s standing by her man out of love, not because of her standing as a woman. the generalization of her situation with billy may lead to adverse effects with these others girls, like carrie who goes back to the man who wants to cage her and make her bear 9 children... julie is definitely a sympathetic character here and moral core of the show, but the message of this song can only be wildly misinterpreted through a contemporary lens
(sorry i’m writing a college paper on this hahaha)
Alexis Sakellaris True that. But still it’s heartbreakingly beautiful.
Alexis Sakellaris They changed the context of it in the revival which I thought worked well. If I remember correctly it was just her, Carrie, and Nettie onstage and Julie was almost singing to herself.
Alexis Sakellaris Also, the important distinction is that it’s the character’s actions and words that are problematic. The show itself isn’t necessarily problematic if said show isn’t promoting the character’s words and actions. Carousel is critical both of Billy’s actions and Julie’s advice. I think it’s just misunderstood by modern audiences.
One of the BEST written songs by Rogers and Hammerstein.
Amen
My favourite musical carousel cw
Best, until you figure out that it's a song about justifying being in an abusive relationship.
I agree.
this is a very emotional song if you stop to think about it. she sings this right before she loses him. she never gets a chance to tell him that she really loves him in spite of the mistakes he made
Julie's voice is one of an angel
I loved a so-called "bad boy", and married him against my parents wishes, later to leave him by their coercion. I've never stopped loving him. I found him and went back to him 42 yrs. later. Unbelievingly, he never re-married, and still loved me too.We had a short couple of months together, before I lost him in death, 2yrs. ago. Though I'm thankful for the opportunity to reunite, I wish someone had told me the words to this song. What's the use of wondering if he's good or if he's bad, I'm his girl and he's my fella, and all the rest is Talk! I love you, Edward W. Purvis, Jr. (Feb.1, 1951-Feb.4, 2015) RIP
Thank you for sharing this poignant, sad and lovely information. So pleased that you were reunited in love again before he departed from this world.
❤️❤️❤️
Thus is one of the most outstanding vocal performances of Shirley Jones's career, with superb backing by Maestro Alfred Newman and the 20th Century Studios Orchestra.
True love knows no bounds and, sometimes, makes no sense. When you've found love, you know it... and NOTHING can foul your course!!
A beautiful song beautifully sung by Shirley Jones. Great expression - been there done that - heart broken and this really sums it all up. Magnificent! They don't write them like this anymore
Love this song. She has such a sweet voice.
Beautiful and heartbreaking, especially considering what comes next. Shirley Jones puts so much emotion into the lyrics-what a talent.
Shirley Jones was so wonderful! After all the brilliant Carousel’s there’s been over the years, she’s still my favourite Julie!
So here’s my analysis. I know the message being portrayed is a controversial one. And it does seem difficult to grasp what was the intention behind it. I don’t actually know what the writer was thinking when he wrote this, but to me I feel like her message is deeper than what we see on the surface.
It’s just like she says, it isn’t so much about weather anything is inherently “good” or if it’s “bad”, loving someone is a choice as much as it is not a choice.
When you find that true soul connection with someone and it’s real, you see parts of that person that they hide from the rest of the world, you know a version of them that is rare to see. Julie brings out that softness and vulnerability inside of billy that he tries to bury. And he brings it out in her too.
Many women who get stuck in relationships like this see these men as the lost little children they truly are, as people who lost their innocence too young and had to grow up too fast perhaps. They see past the facade and cut straight to the core, wanting to nurture that soul like a mother selflessly sacrifices herself for her own children. Loving unconditionally, asking for nothing in return. She truly loves him, despite his weaknesses. Because they are just a part of him, and to love someone is to accept the whole picture as it is. She understands him. And he knows she does. Which is why he gets so angry and hits her, projecting his shortcomings onto her. He can’t fool her, and he doesn’t know how to be that vulnerable, he doesn’t have the right tools.
He carries a lot of shame and guilt and a sense of worthlessness that he covers in bravado and braggy confidence, he knows his reputation. And he’s very sensitive to how others see him. When he finds out he is going to be a father you can see how it gives him a sense of pride because his life now has a meaning and a respectable purpose. But just like he was a product of his circumstances, he ends up repeating the same cycle with his daughter being the next victim of unfortunate circumstances. So in order for her to not repeat his mistakes, he tries to go back and tell her to believe in herself. You can’t help what others think of you, just you worry about trying to like them, to loosely paraphrase the graduation speech.
Julie always believed in billy. She’s never been scared of him, and she doesn’t let others tell her how she should feel or what is right for her, or societally politically correct. She said in the beginning she had no plans to marry. That already is an indication of how starkly different she is from the average girl in town, and how she views herself as an independent, autonomous being. She has her own mind and she’s telling the other girls to be free thinkers as well, to live their lives in whatever way feels right, or authentic to them.
It’s not to encourage them to be in abusive relationships, or stay in one, it’s rather subjective. If it doesn’t feel right then listen to your gut. But what’s the sense in beating yourself up over loving who you love when it’s your opinion of yourself that really matters the most at the end of the day?
Julie is a strong woman. Though she is maybe perceived as weak, she has her own agency. And it’s that strength of character and resilience, her realness about her that doesn’t need to compromise her more naturally soft feminine, tender qualities that billy falls in love with. But they both struggle with their vulnerability with each other out of fear. Still, they don’t need words to express that they love each other. Because there is a strong sense that they both already know it to be true.
My dad's and my favorite song from a B'way musical...
Carousel in my opinion is the greatest musical ever made.
It's been voted no one routinely by critics etc
Another great song that only Shirley Jones could sing. What a beautiful voice!
Rodgers and Hammerstein - gifts from above.
One of the best songs they ever wrote. Love Shirley.
She is timeless!
What a wonderful song , one of Rodgers' and Hammerstein's best , beautifully sung , as ever , by Shirley Jones . I know the issues , but it can't detract from the beautiful melody , and sheer quality of the song .
My favorite of the r&h shows! I grew up with this movie!
The song, from Rodgers & Hammerstein's "Carousel," isn't about abuse. It is sung after a misunderstanding between lovers, Enoch and Carrie. Women are telling Carrie that all men are bad. Julie (Shirley Jones) responds by encouraging Carrie to learn to live with Enoch's faults, since she indeed loves him. ... "Carousel" is a bit of a weird, creepy musical (including suicide and reincarnation) but this isn't actually a creepy part; just brilliantly turned so recently by Amanda Palmer.
Because it's the internet, of course I'm going to respond to this post from 12 years ago! Yes, Julie is giving advice to Carrie, but it really is a look at Julie's psychological justifications for staying with Billy. She's giving advice based on the only romantic relationship she's ever known, which is toxic and unhealthy and with a damaged, arguably bad, person. So I'd say the song is totally about abuse! Which isn't a bad thing-it's not like Hammerstein is condoning abusive relationships. He's just exploring the psychology of domestic abuse victims, and the justifications they make to stay in their unhealthy relationships. Anyway, I hope the last 12 years have been kind to you!
@@mrtmulcahey couldn’t agree with you more, Tim! Thanks for saying it so eloquently. Be well!
She really is the quintessential Julie Jordan. Just wonderful.
One of my daughter's friends said this song was perfect for Joker and Harley. lol
I agree. She made me completely fall in love with the role.
I forgot to mention , a great ' hook ' too at , ' If you love him ' . Genius !
Wonderful to find this song on here. I agree things aren't made in the same way anymore. While the song can be "twisted" to mean "stay in an abusive relationship", I think what the actual song is saying is that love is precious, it doesn't grow on trees, and no matter where it comes from you should always focus more on the love, and worry less about everything that'll distract you from finding love and not enjoying the real gift that love is.
breathtaking singing. I have a dear friend that I I think this song was written for.
It's pretty hard to misinterpret lines like "sometimes a man can hit you so hard it feels like a kiss."
..exactly. it's meant to show how victims of abuse can think due to years of it.
True love knows no bounds and, sometimes, makes no sense. When you've found love, you know it... and NOTHING can foul your course!!
I loved this song as a teen, learned it soon after I saw the movie.
Shirley Jones sings this beautifully. I also like Sally Murphy (in the 1994 revival) and a lot of the others who have acted/sung this challenging role, like Jan Clayton, Joanna Riding, Jessie Mueller and Kelli O’Hara. No disrespect to Phoebe and Henry Ephron ( and I met both) but their screenplay was not totally fair to Julie’s character, as she has some important lines in the show that weren’t used ( such as Billy turning gentle when listening to the music from the carousel ). Jones was only about 20-21 yrs when filming this/ the clambake was done on a set but the rowboat shot when she starts to pursue Billy was outdoors/she supposedly hurt her foot & ankle in that scene. This song has taken a lot of criticism over the years-Ferenc Molnar who wrote the original Liliom supposedly had a rough marriage and slapped his young daughter, and the story was intended as an apology for such behavior, but as Kelli O’Hara says as Julie in the NY Philharmonic production, unhappiness and a quick temper “doesn’t excuse it.”
The best musical ever
I grew up with Carousel playing in the background. It was one of my mother's favorites. But it was also the most damaging thing I could have ever heard as a child. This song is a study in convincing someone that an abusive relationship is wonderful and romantic.
I realized, when I was in my late 40s, that every single relationship I had up to that point was a replay of Julie Jordan looking for Billy Bigelow. I even wore my hair like Julie. This is definitely a case in point of make sure that you are careful what you let your children listen to. My mom and dad had a wonderful and loving relationship, nothing at all like this one. But this, and a lot of the other songs she sings in this musical, planted the seeds early on how a relationship should be. Had I never heard these songs, I probably would have been a lot happier. Thankfully I figured it out in time.
Be careful what you let your children listen to. Swear words aren't the only thing you need to worry about.
Have to disagree. Billy Bigelow was proud and poor and loved Julie but he wasn't abusive to her. He died in a botched robbery trying to get money for her and her baby.
The song is about love and acceptance but does not include abuse. Please do not blame your lack of happiness on a song. There may be other underlying factors.
Actually, he did abuse her. There's a line at the end of the movie where she says something to the effect of "Have you ever had a slap that felt like a kiss?". That is definitely abuse.
Wondrous song!
I sang that to some teenage students.... stunning
I use to think this musical was kind of sad due to choices billy makes: hitting Julie, taking part in the robbery to support his family because he was too self-centered to know what being a father really meant thinking about someone other than himself.
Now I am beginning to see the happy ending of the musical. Billy got a chance to redeem himself in Julie's eyes and to send a massage to his daughter that in spite of the mistakes he made she had to stand on her own two feet.
I don't recall that Billy sent a massage to his daughter.
@@ericgrosch8073 he was sent from heaven to give his daughter the message that in spite of the mistakes he made his daughter has to feel good about herself.
his daughter was feeling really bad because everybody in town was kind of like bullying her and telling her how bad her father was. she thought that because of the mistakes her father made it was a reflection on her as a human being.
@@aminsadeghpour1549 it was a joke about your incorrect spelling
"what's the use of wondering." It works both ways. If you are truly in love with someone, you forget their faults, even if your heart tells you, it's wrong, you follow blindly. "When he/she wants your kisses, you will give them to the lad/lass and anywhere he/she leads you, you will walk and anytime he/she needs you, you'll go running there like mad. He/she's your girl/fella, and all the rest is talk"
some lines of a song hit home more than others-my lover was a :bad" guy but our love made hm into a very good man-whats the use of wondering? you just hope your love will be the key
Beautiful, ironic song.Just as Julie ends it, Billy and Jigger are rowing across to rob the warehouse.The effort will end in Billy's death in Julie's arms.Billy is always her "fella" up to the end and beyond.
The mother of the partridge family can really sing 🎤 👍
just hear me out:
I am not saying what Billy did was right, he made some terrible mistakes including committing a robbery and leaving his wife penniless with a baby coming.
however, I am the kind of person who tries not to get stuck on one single perspective. I try to look at the "other side of the coin"
in all honesty I don't think that Billy was really a bad man at heart. I think that some of the mistakes he made were due to the fact that he never cared much about anybody except himself in his life.
I think that Billy would have made better choices if he had had experience with caring for other people.
... i think that is everyone
This is awesome, but Amanda Palmer's version is also worth a listening :)
+Sachia chan Yes. Nowadays we can see in this song a slightly different meaning
Well, yes... with a bit more sarcasm.
Pity that her video is so unbearable.
yes it's with Anne but the video they made had Vermillion Lies singing along. but they're making another video, which I think does have Anne.
I agree with you! And the line 'yes, it's possible to be hit, hit real hard and for it not to hurt at all' also bugs me, it's soooooooo wrong!! I try to think what she really means is, in this song: screw what every one else thinks, if you love him love him, and with that line: she understood why Billy hit her because he was so frustrated, and there is more to him than than a man who hit her, but still... that really doesn't make it right in the slightest...
Lotte Bee In the NY Philharmonic a line was added for Julie, as Billy has just died, where she says she understood his unhappiness but that doesn’t excuse his behavior. And back in 1993 in director Nicholas Hytner’s revival, he has Billy listening to Julie’s responses to Louise, while he is shaking his head and exclaiming “No!”- so he was aware that his lashing out was impulsive and wrong.
A level music gang
This is a kind of sad scene if you take a look at it: This scene takes place right before she loses him. She never got a chance to tell him she really loved him
Great song. Terrible advice.
yeah, that's the point. i was so confused for such a long time until i understood it's meant to feel wrong because it is - it reveals the thoughts behind someone who's been abused for years. poignantly tragic.
Ha ha!
her voice was wonderful. who is better?
What’s the use of wond’rin’
If he’s good or if he’s bad,
Or if you like the way he wears his hat?
Oh, what’s the use of wond’rin’
If he’s good or if he’s bad?
He’s your feller and you love him-
That’s all there is to that.
Common sense may tell you
That the endin’ will be sad
And now’s the time to break and run away.
But what’s the use of wond’rin’
If the endin’ will be sad?
He’s your feller and you love him-
There’s nothin’ more to say.
Somethin’ made him the way that he is,
Whether he’s false or true.
And somethin’ gave him the things that are his-
One of those things is you.
So, when he wants your kisses
You will give them to the lad,
And anywhere he leads you, you will walk.
And anytime he needs you,
You’ll go runnin’ there like mad.
You’re his girl and he’s your feller-
And all the rest is talk.
Fans of this song should check out Amanda Palmer's version featuring Vermilion Lies. Very nicely done.
agreed :)
@traceyofrc : Getting to work with both Shirley Jones AND Patrick Cassidy? You're very lucky!!!! :-)
I thought this was a parody by Amanda Palmer. Nope it's an actual song. I am more than slightly disturbed.
JUST BEFORE SHE LOSES HIM
amin sadeghpour
Tell me about it. This story is heart-wrenching.
+amin sadeghpour If you take a good look at him you will realize he did not mean to do anything bad.
Yes; A good character. I really feel for him when he's worried about how he'll provide if they have a daughter.
Also I'd like to add: Love the person you're with, accept them with their faults (because you have them too is implied), don't go looking for faults, because that's all you'll find if you focus on it, just focus on love, because (as I said earlier) it doesn't grow on trees.
gorgious music and gorgious singing
LaVern Burden does it, too.
Look her up
@Salamon2 : beautiful!!! I know a man like Billy Bigelow, and I couldn't have described my own feelings better than you just did. :-)
@ariadne42 You really should familiarize yourself with the story of 'Carousel' before making ridiculous comments like that.
I don't think what she's saying is "wrong" as such, a lot of couples fall in love and stay in love without rhyme or reason or being particularly compatible characters and would do anything for each other. In Julie and Bily's case it went tragically wrong, of course.
If only you had included the women's chorus reprising the song after Shirley stops.....!
THIS SONG SENDS A REALLY POWERFUL MESSEGE. DUE TO SOME OF THE CHOICES HE MADE BILLY IS NOT SO EASY TO LOVE. BUT JULIE IS BASICLY SAYING THAT THERE ARE SOME GOOD PARTS TO HIM TOO AND SHE NEEDS TO EMBRACE THEM. IT IS SO SAD. RIGHT AFTER THIS SCENE SHE LOSES HIM.
why are you commenting on this video for like 6 years straight lol
great voice, horrible message in the song -- ladies deserve better!
Looks like HIllary Clinton. :o
The meaning by comment this video is of course to say somethings about her singing. Shirley Jones is a incredible singer, and wow how adorable she looks in this video.
And the heartwarming climax involves an abusive husband returning from the grave to slap his daughter, and by whispering "I love you" once instantly excuses the repulsively violent way he treated Julie?
There's a very horrible and dangerous message in this song. But it's supposed to be controversial
i agree. a short fuse and violent tendencies are just faults we all have to get over- because we love them and belong to them, you know
To new age feminit women this is anathema and would shrink and shudder at the sentiments expressed in Shirley s song!
Of course a woman should wonder if a man is good or bad and shouldn't go back to one with a short fuse who abuses her. Do you disagree or what?
I am a new age feminist and this is a wild comment lmfao. Out of context, this song is beautiful and so true. IN THE CONTEXT, she is staying with her abuser. It is nothing to do with feminism; it was sad AND lovely then, and it is the same now.
HEAR ME OUT: I AM NOT SAYING WHAT BILLY DID WAS RIGHT. HOWEVER IF PEOPLE TAKE A MORE CLOSER LOOK AT HIM THEY MAY REALIZE THAT BILLY NEVER MEANT TO HIT JULIE. HE DID IT OUT OF FRUSTRATION.
"I didn't mean it, baby," has been said by many abusers. It's just an excuse to avoid taking responsibility.
I think deep down he really loved her. It was just that he was not use to caring much for anybody except himself
@@aminsadeghpour1549 so? how is abusing and actively CHOOSING to hurt her ever okay?
I like Amanda Palmer's version better!
/watch?v=VmyHZA4GAk8
Sorry an....
It's a beautiful song, but the lyrics are absolutely dead wrong. Normalizing the abuse of women and the treatment of them as property is abhorrent.
captainpanic08 You’re not supposed to agree with Julie... it’s the character’s worldview, and she’s trying to justify to everyone why she stays with Billy. That’s why the chorus joins in, (cut from this clip) singing that common sense says she should leave him, but she is in denial.
I feel like her message is deeper than that, it’s like she says, it isn’t so much about weather anything is inherently “good” or if it’s “bad”, loving someone is a choice as much as it is not a choice. When you find that connection with someone and it’s real, you see parts of them that the rest of the world doesn’t get to see, Julie brings out that softness and vulnerability inside of billy that he tries to bury. Many women who get stuck in relationships like this see these men as the lost little children they truly are, as people who lost their innocence too young and had to grow up too fast perhaps, they see past the facade and cut straight to the core, wanting to nurture that soul like a mother selflessly sacrifices herself for her own children. Unconditionally, asking for nothing in return. She truly loves him, despite his flaws. She understands him. And he knows she does. Which is why he gets so angry and hits her. He can’t fool her, and he doesn’t know how to be that vulnerable, he doesn’t have the right tools. He carries a lot of shame that he covers in bravado and braggy confidence, he knows his reputation. And he’s very sensitive to how others see him. Just like his daughter. Who couldn’t help the circumstances she was born into. But Julie doesn’t care about any of that. She’s not scared of him, she doesn’t let others tell her how she should feel or what is right for her, or societally politically correct. She said in the beginning she had no plans to marry. That already is an indication of how starkly different she is from the average girl, and how she views herself as an independent, autonomous being. She has her own mind and she’s telling the other girls to live their lives in whatever way feels right, or authentic to them as well. It’s not to encourage them to be in abusive relationships, it’s rather subjective. But simply to live your life because what’s the sense in beating yourself up over loving who you love when it’s your opinion of yourself that really matters the most at the end of the day. Julie is a strong woman. Though she is perceived as weak, she has her own agency. And it’s that strength of character and resilience, her realness about her that doesn’t need to compromise her more naturally soft feminine, tender qualities that billy falls in love with. But they both struggle with vulnerability. Still, they don’t need words to express that they love each other. Because they both already know it to be true.
There is also the line "something gave him the things that are his / one of those things is you". It's a horrible line - she reduces herself to a THING, an object, belonging to a man.
What she means, about love and forgiveness and understanding, is right. But the lyrics are just wrong.
That's how it was then. You can spend your life going back over history, thousands of years, of wrong attitudes and treatments, but all that would happen is you'd get more screwed up and change nothing. Move forward, change things that can be changed now and in the future. Some point in that.
Women before feminism.