imahumantrustme Its not honestly. In the realm of fighting games anyway. There are plenty of combos and techniques in Street Fighter alone that are 1 frames. Not saying its not a tight window or difficult, but its pretty easy compared to other things in the same game genre.
***** ***** Callsem Seesem "Technical" in fighting game lingo does not have a concrete definition but it definitely does NOT mean "what somebody thinks is hard to do". If I had to give it a definition it would be "any technique that requires timing, and must be practiced and worked into muscle memory before one can perform the technique consistently". e.g. walking/dashing forward/backward is not very technical. Jumping and doing an up air is not very technical. DACUS is pretty technical. Run, cc, shine-turnaround, wavedash back, fastfall ledge grab is pretty technical too. Not too hard after you practice, but that's part of the definition.
imahumantrustme well 3 frames out of 60 is 1/20th, or .5 seconds. Human reaction time without being trained is .2 seconds, 1/5th of a second or 12 frames. Mind you this person is also saying that it's roughly 4 frames, and I'm going to guess that's based on his own personal experience. Meaning, it's probably going to be more frames. Still, training yourself to hit something in sequence where one part of the sequence has a 4 frame window isn't necessarily hard. Would probably take you five minutes to do it successfully a couple times, and then maybe an hour to get it down to the point of 99% success rate.
I've been doing this since 3ds version first came out. Tip for Luigi mains, you can do this into a bair. Great for a kill or just to get the opponent off stage at earlier percent.
Oh good, now we can go back to nonstop mindless attacking with no consequence. I really missed that. Thanks, internet. I was worried there would be some kind of balance between offense or defense in Smash 4.
Pretty sure plenty of people have known about this since the demo. It's not a very complicated or nuanced tech. In fact its hardly an "advanced tech", but instead the result of two natural mechanics working as expected (those mechanics being interrupt-able frames and autocancelling aerials)
Ganon cant do this after a short-hop. got excited for a moment. If anyone can prove it otherwise i would like to know, as this is something he needs dearly
What about Zero Suit Samus? I got it w/ Falcon where he does the jab but it seems as tho Zero Suit Samus has little to no landing lag but I could be wrong.. help. Haha
Reslived I found something with zamus when dashing jump with zamus before the fastfall zamus can change direction with neutral b with the opposite directional input at the first second it doesn't make it side special I found this because I wanted to see the distance I can get with dash short hop neutral special and a slight mistake n input showed me this I haven't seen it once online u showed me this dodge cancel video and playing bowser has been very fun cause of it so I wanted to tell u
hi, I don't own a wii but my cousins do, n I'm not that bad in smash considering I don't have the game, one thing I don't know is how to air dodge. Can someone please tell me how to air dodge on a wifi controller and a GameCube controller, thanks.
Kian S. Hi there. Yeah Airdodging is super easy. All you have to do is push the L or R button. I use L. You can set the controls to be different if you want. But You just push your Shield button while you are in the air. :) And to Spot dodge, which is like airdodge but on the ground. All you do is hold shield button and push down to dodge while standing. Hope that helps. It's the same controls to do that for every smash except n64.
Holy..Shit!! Awesome Tech! I'm really impressed! I can find SO many uses for this! With all the patches that have come out (currently 1.0.9) is this tech still possible?
these comments are terrible. you're canceling endlag with another action. if jump canceling is an AT then so is this. also, this wasn't in brawl. in brawl we used to buffer out of air dodge. this is *canceling* the air dodge via IASA frames. what do we take away from this? air defense is now safer because you can buffer a nearly instant hitbox after your dodge. tech like this will make the game very spacing intensive, and slow. this will benefit characters with tilts that have low end lag the most. for example (i guess? i don't play this game) , marth could full hop fair, DJ air dodge, IASA into a cancelable areal, into dtilt. sounds like it has depth, but most of the commands don't contribute anything but to get the next action out more quickly. out of those 5 or so actions you get two hitboxes and some inv frames.
Ok so I am able to do it with Ness but how do I do it with peach? (my main) I know you mentioned the only 8 characters that was able to do it from a short hop but how else are you suppose to do it with peach for example?
Doing it with other characters is a lot harder, because you have to master the precise timing of the airdodge such that you can interrupt your airdodge right before hitting the ground. Try and figure out when Peach's airdodge lags, and then work backwards from there.
You can't, that's a part of the technique. Canceling air-dodge lag can only be done through using an aerial attack just before hitting the ground (reason is because with the right timing you can avoid all aerial lag). Without using aerials no character can use this technique I don't think.
yes he can. its just a very difficult timing ^_^. i do it in the vid 1:46. try doing a short hop airdodge and mashing a as you land. you will see nair landing lag and a jab
1:25 "By interrupting an airdodge with an aerial RIGHT before hitting the ground, you will autocancel the aerial and ignore all of the airdodge lag. This is dodge cancelling." The buttons are not a specific input. You can do it with any aerial, and with any airdodge.
+Ludus Machinae Stumbled upon this video again looking for ATs for Charizard, a character I picked up tonight. I understand it now and I finally did it. Thanks for your help a couple months back :)
Off topic, how did you get your sound quality so high? I'm using a double-ended 3.5mm jack to play the 3DS sound through my headset, but the quality isn't by far as good as this.
Erm... I turned off the music and I maxed out sound effects/voices. Then I propped my 3DS up and recorded the video with my iPhone sitting on a jar of peanuts. With no other sounds in the room and sound effects on max and volume on max it sounds pretty good.
Probably not since auto-cancelled aerials are kind of an important mechanic of the game. Maybe they took away the interruptable air dodge frames though.
This is where you may possibly be wrong. Pretty much everything considered "technically advanced" or "competitively challenging" in smash 4 is basically an accident. Think about it, we already know that Nintendo is completely against any sort of competitiveness, which is the main reason why they haven't reverted back to a Melee type of engine. Anyways, Nintendo couldn't care less of what people think might be an important mechanic in the game according to a competitive player because they don't want it to be a competitive game.
elias markham Then why would there even be end lag on moves... When I say important mechanic of the game, I mean for both competitive and casual players. Having end lag on moves affects all players, whether they know it or not.
m4r1o148 This is wrong because of end lag was gone in Smash4 then it just wouldnt really be fun for casual players either. People would just wail on your shield and break it before you could move. Some mechanics of the game are important just for the player to have a good experience, other mechanics only matter for competitive players because casuals dont care enough or try hard enough to preform complicated moves such as dodge canceling.
its a good thing that I main toon link :o with another weapon in my arsenal, who knows what could happen. Except against rosalina. Fuck rosalina... Rosabroken :/
"4 frames" "very technical"
4 out of sixty frames is pretty small window.
imahumantrustme Its not honestly. In the realm of fighting games anyway. There are plenty of combos and techniques in Street Fighter alone that are 1 frames. Not saying its not a tight window or difficult, but its pretty easy compared to other things in the same game genre.
***** ***** Callsem Seesem "Technical" in fighting game lingo does not have a concrete definition but it definitely does NOT mean "what somebody thinks is hard to do".
If I had to give it a definition it would be "any technique that requires timing, and must be practiced and worked into muscle memory before one can perform the technique consistently".
e.g. walking/dashing forward/backward is not very technical. Jumping and doing an up air is not very technical. DACUS is pretty technical. Run, cc, shine-turnaround, wavedash back, fastfall ledge grab is pretty technical too. Not too hard after you practice, but that's part of the definition.
imahumantrustme well 3 frames out of 60 is 1/20th, or .5 seconds. Human reaction time without being trained is .2 seconds, 1/5th of a second or 12 frames. Mind you this person is also saying that it's roughly 4 frames, and I'm going to guess that's based on his own personal experience. Meaning, it's probably going to be more frames. Still, training yourself to hit something in sequence where one part of the sequence has a 4 frame window isn't necessarily hard. Would probably take you five minutes to do it successfully a couple times, and then maybe an hour to get it down to the point of 99% success rate.
Steve Stewart I wanna see you do it, mister I'm so precise
Perfect pivot sliding is more "technically demanding" than this.
Special thanks to me? Aww.
Well you were the first person I came to.
Y'all are a bunch of weird ass brothas
For all the G&W players: try doing this with an UAir rather than FAir. Works better.
4 frames? it least it's not one!
This is a pretty neat find.
I wanna wait to see how this can be used.
Great find.
Even more to make bowser too good ;-)
I can say that, as of 1.1.6, it still works with C. Falcon on the 3ds.
I've been doing this since 3ds version first came out. Tip for Luigi mains, you can do this into a bair. Great for a kill or just to get the opponent off stage at earlier percent.
All this doesn't matter when the online freezes every couple games.
If you grab with link in the air it also takes away landing lag
Oh good, now we can go back to nonstop mindless attacking with no consequence. I really missed that. Thanks, internet. I was worried there would be some kind of balance between offense or defense in Smash 4.
Pretty sure plenty of people have known about this since the demo. It's not a very complicated or nuanced tech. In fact its hardly an "advanced tech", but instead the result of two natural mechanics working as expected (those mechanics being interrupt-able frames and autocancelling aerials)
Wavedashing is the result of maneuverable air dodges and momentum transferring. Are you going to argue that it isn't an advanced technique?
Mmm when you said Ness could do this.
You forgot that Mario can also short hop dodge cancel
Ganon cant do this after a short-hop. got excited for a moment. If anyone can prove it otherwise i would like to know, as this is something he needs dearly
Good, another useful tech for Charizard and Greninja :3
I love you so much for this
hope to see more videos from you :)
A very well done video.
Thanks for this, i've mastered the tech with bowser.
What about Zero Suit Samus? I got it w/ Falcon where he does the jab but it seems as tho Zero Suit Samus has little to no landing lag but I could be wrong.. help. Haha
great video! keep em coming :D
Shulk can also preform this tactic from a short hop. just tested it
i believe shulk can do a short hop airdodge and it will autocancel. I dont think he needs to dodge cancel his short hop.
Nice insight, subscribed.
So basically just use an Arial attack right before hitting the ground during a short hop to reduce recovery time?
Nice video!
this works if i do a double jump?
Reslived I found something with zamus when dashing jump with zamus before the fastfall zamus can change direction with neutral b with the opposite directional input at the first second it doesn't make it side special I found this because I wanted to see the distance I can get with dash short hop neutral special and a slight mistake n input showed me this I haven't seen it once online u showed me this dodge cancel video and playing bowser has been very fun cause of it so I wanted to tell u
Don't think this has much viability with Ganondorf or other characters with slow startup aerial moves or laggy end aerial moves. Thoughts?
Does this still apply to Toon Link? From what I can tell, SH air dodge seems to auto cancel with him, useful for late air dodges though.
hi, I don't own a wii but my cousins do, n I'm not that bad in smash considering I don't have the game, one thing I don't know is how to air dodge. Can someone please tell me how to air dodge on a wifi controller and a GameCube controller, thanks.
Kian S. Hi there. Yeah Airdodging is super easy. All you have to do is push the L or R button. I use L. You can set the controls to be different if you want. But You just push your Shield button while you are in the air. :) And to Spot dodge, which is like airdodge but on the ground. All you do is hold shield button and push down to dodge while standing. Hope that helps. It's the same controls to do that for every smash except n64.
Holy..Shit!! Awesome Tech! I'm really impressed! I can find SO many uses for this! With all the patches that have come out (currently 1.0.9) is this tech still possible?
Yay Charizard! :D He is my go to if Dark Pit aint cutting it
Yes! Tech!
these comments are terrible. you're canceling endlag with another action. if jump canceling is an AT then so is this. also, this wasn't in brawl. in brawl we used to buffer out of air dodge. this is *canceling* the air dodge via IASA frames.
what do we take away from this? air defense is now safer because you can buffer a nearly instant hitbox after your dodge. tech like this will make the game very spacing intensive, and slow. this will benefit characters with tilts that have low end lag the most. for example (i guess? i don't play this game) , marth could full hop fair, DJ air dodge, IASA into a cancelable areal, into dtilt. sounds like it has depth, but most of the commands don't contribute anything but to get the next action out more quickly. out of those 5 or so actions you get two hitboxes and some inv frames.
Let me share something with you
Dodge cancel ---->shield 24/7 (since it's the only way)= grab
Dodge cancel -----> grab (low range mostly)= dmg% rises
I would like to say that i knew this, but i didnt knew that many character can done the same o:
This was already discovered in Brawl imo.
thats just your opinion man
none of you understand and its so funny
Actually speak up, I'm pretty sure they hated Brawl because they couldn't beat the big bad MK imo (practice makes perfect).
WingChroniam isnt sm4sh the same as brawl?
Icepick333 no
Ok so I am able to do it with Ness but how do I do it with peach? (my main) I know you mentioned the only 8 characters that was able to do it from a short hop but how else are you suppose to do it with peach for example?
Doing it with other characters is a lot harder, because you have to master the precise timing of the airdodge such that you can interrupt your airdodge right before hitting the ground. Try and figure out when Peach's airdodge lags, and then work backwards from there.
res0smash
That's solid advice. I did it that way and it helped me out a lot. Still not sure how useful this will be for her, but we'll see.
Can Robin do this with Nair?
Oh great. Skill-centralization incoming! Please don't make this Melee all over again guys.
so how do you cancel falco's landing lag without an aerial?
You can't, that's a part of the technique. Canceling air-dodge lag can only be done through using an aerial attack just before hitting the ground (reason is because with the right timing you can avoid all aerial lag). Without using aerials no character can use this technique I don't think.
Is not working anymore with the new update 1.0.4
is this actually true? i cant get the update.
the dogdeC... is a little hard on falco
So is this like a bad street fighter or what?
Cpt.F can't do it from a short hop
yes he can. its just a very difficult timing ^_^. i do it in the vid 1:46. try doing a short hop airdodge and mashing a as you land. you will see nair landing lag and a jab
you never even said how to exactly do it ._. what buttons. tf
1:25 "By interrupting an airdodge with an aerial RIGHT before hitting the ground, you will autocancel the aerial and ignore all of the airdodge lag. This is dodge cancelling."
The buttons are not a specific input. You can do it with any aerial, and with any airdodge.
wake the fuck up ya idiot, he did lol
danielvutran Attack button before landing, that's the input.
danielvutran Dude, calm down you agressive fuck...
if you know how to play smash, you already know what buttons to press.
Can u say how to do it
Oooooo nvm I got it thx
WHAT AERIAL CAUSES THE DODGE CANCEL FOR MK?? I CANT DO IT
Herodreamer all of them, theyre really strict though
Ludus Machinae I see. I haven't looked into this AT in a long time,but Ill get into it eventually when I feel like it.
Does MK have any B reversals?
Herodreamer i believe he does, but due to the nature of his b-moves they arent as useful
Ludus Machinae I see.
Thanks again Shiny Greninja
+Ludus Machinae Stumbled upon this video again looking for ATs for Charizard, a character I picked up tonight. I understand it now and I finally did it. Thanks for your help a couple months back :)
This isn't an AT....
I miss z canceling in smash 64.
Off topic, how did you get your sound quality so high? I'm using a double-ended 3.5mm jack to play the 3DS sound through my headset, but the quality isn't by far as good as this.
Erm... I turned off the music and I maxed out sound effects/voices. Then I propped my 3DS up and recorded the video with my iPhone sitting on a jar of peanuts. With no other sounds in the room and sound effects on max and volume on max it sounds pretty good.
reslived has any of this changed in the patch?
Probably not since auto-cancelled aerials are kind of an important mechanic of the game. Maybe they took away the interruptable air dodge frames though.
This is where you may possibly be wrong. Pretty much everything considered "technically advanced" or "competitively challenging" in smash 4 is basically an accident. Think about it, we already know that Nintendo is completely against any sort of competitiveness, which is the main reason why they haven't reverted back to a Melee type of engine. Anyways, Nintendo couldn't care less of what people think might be an important mechanic in the game according to a competitive player because they don't want it to be a competitive game.
elias markham Then why would there even be end lag on moves... When I say important mechanic of the game, I mean for both competitive and casual players. Having end lag on moves affects all players, whether they know it or not.
m4r1o148
This is wrong because of end lag was gone in Smash4 then it just wouldnt really be fun for casual players either. People would just wail on your shield and break it before you could move. Some mechanics of the game are important just for the player to have a good experience, other mechanics only matter for competitive players because casuals dont care enough or try hard enough to preform complicated moves such as dodge canceling.
elias markham You just said what I said more or less...
A lot of people have discovered this on Reddit before you mang. D:
THE CREATORS DIDN'T INTEND IT THEREFORE SMASH 4 ISN'T COMPETITIVE
Lol nah just because they didn't intend for it to be competitive doesn't mean it can't be competitive.
Then by your shit definition of "competitive" Melee isn't competitive, is it?
elias markham That's my joke. A lot of people say that about melee so I'm....ah nevermind, if you dont get it, why bother explaining it.
xXxsonicisawesomexXx
ah, my B (a chillindude, preformed by Elias)
BOSSSSSS
good thing i main bowser and cfalc
I already knew this
Time to speed up the game?
:/ I wish....
its a good thing that I main toon link :o with another weapon in my arsenal, who knows what could happen. Except against rosalina. Fuck rosalina... Rosabroken :/
Falcooooooo w0o0o!
Isn't this bad for the game? It'll support defensive playstyles even more.
I bet all the money int he world that you are a Bowser main lol
old